Why.
On Sky News This is Sharry.
Good Evening Tonight, Benjamin Netanyahu declares the tyrants will pay after Iran strikes.
In Israeli hospital.
Will cross live to Israel for the latest news with former director of the Prime Minister's Press Office Division in the MAGA movement as Trump signs off and plans to strike Iran. I'll have full coverage with former Ambassador to Israel Dave Sharma, plus.
James Morrow and Matt Canavan.
Also on the show, Ben roberts Smith's bid for justice in the High Court after nine paid a witness hush money ahead of the appeal trial. More with Chris Merrit a bit later, and Caroline Marcus brings us the latest on tonight's meeting where Victorian Liberals will decide whether to lend John Pezzuto one point five million or sent him bankrupt, ending his political career. That'll be big news and it's all coming up tonight to the devastating Iranian attack on
an Israeli hospital. Here was the moment the Iranian strike hit Soroka Hospital in Beer Sheva in southern Israel during the morning hours.
Al this is a war crime.
Israel has only been targeting Iranian nuclear and military sites. While Iran has deliberately been killing civilians, this hospital strike just hours ago is the most devastating act of destructive intents so far, and it shows this evil regime has to be stopped.
Doesen'ts have been injured?
Israeli Prime Minister benjaminette and Yah who responded tonight warning that this morning Iran's terrorist tyrants launched missiles at Soroka Hospital in Eshebba and at a civilian population in the
center of the country. He says we will exact the full price from the tyrants in Tehran, and Israeli President Isaac Kurtzog said this hospital cares for Israelis of all faiths, even Palestinian neighbors, and he wrote on social media a baby in intensive care, a mother by their bedside, a doctor rushing between beds, an elderly resident in a nursing home. These were some of the targets of Iran's missile attacks
on Israeli civilians this morning. Iran claims it was targeting an IDF base, yet there's no military facility nearby, and this was the chaos that unfolded inside the hospital when the strike.
Hit Nasim hud Nashi who.
Dashi Israelis are paying with their lives, learning that even a hospital is no longer safe in order to fight Iran on behalf of the West.
Because while Iran has its.
Missiles trained on Israel, death to America is one of its slogans, and it despises the values that embody Western civilization.
But the more crucial point is this.
If Iran is prepared to deliberately hit in Israeli hospital to kill the injured and sick, then imagine what they do with a nuclear weapon. They wouldn't hesitate to use a nuclear bomb against innocent people or to promote their Islamist revolutionary agenda. Now, just last night, Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Sharen Haskell said on this show that if Iran keeps killing in his civilians, then Israel would consider eliminating the Supreme Leader, Ayotola Ali Kamani.
And Trump has declared that he's safe, but Israel hasn't. So here's what Charen said.
This is not right now one of our aimed, but if they push it, you know, we cannot promise what will happen.
Also afterwards, and.
With this shocking attack on Israel's hospital today, just in the past few hours. This firmly puts on the table the possibility that Israel could decide to take out the Supreme Leader, because Israel can't simply sit back while Iran now hits hospitals already after it first sponsored the October seven massacre and the terrorism of Hesbalah, there's been enough loss and tragedy. Well, the signs are now that Trump
is preparing to strike Iran imminently. He's privately approved the attack plans that would be carried out, but he hasn't given the final order, at least publicly, And of course he's giving no public indication of when this could or will happen. He's keeping the world, especially Iran, on edge.
I may do it, I may not do it. I mean, nobody knows what I'm going to do.
I can tell you there is that Iran's got a lot of trouble.
General war is very complex, A lot of bad things can happen, a lot of turns are made, so I don't know.
I wouldn't say that we want anything yet. I would say that we're sure as hell made a lot.
Of progress, and we'll see the next week is going to be very big, maybe less than a week, maybe less.
And Trump is saying he'll make a decision a second before. But Israel is hardly sitting back waiting for.
The United States.
Overnight, it destroyed another twenty military targets in Iran, continuing. It's incredible military and intelligent success during this war. And it's a success that naturally impresses Trump, and he is likely, in my view, to order the B two bombers with the bunker buster bombs to hit the four dough Nucleoste and potentially another. And he'll do this despite the hysterical public protests from anti Americans who claim to be American first,
and the most prominent of these is Tucker Carlson. Tucker is dressing up his anti Western views as die hard maga when it's the exact opposite. In intelligent circles, he's considered a pawn and.
Propagandital of Russias.
But we know that he defends Russia and Iran, two of the countries that form the Axis of evil and seek to overturn democracy and American dominance. It's a point Ted Cruz called him out on in their interview that dominated.
Political circles globally today.
I don't understand for some reason you are really invested in defending Russian I don't get that. I'm not attacking you with that. I'm genuinely like, I don't get why you're you're so passionate about defending Russia.
That was a messy interview where the promo snippet didn't look good for Ted Cruz, even though it was a gotcha question about the population size of Iran?
How many people living around? By the way, I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population. You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple.
Why is it relevant whether it will because ninety million or eighty million or one hundred million?
What because if you don't know anything about the.
Country, I didn't say I don't know anything about Okay, what's the ethnic mix of Iran? They are Persians and well predominantly Shia. Okay, you don't know anything about Iran. So okay, I'm not the Tucker Carlson vicksbird on Iran.
Who's calling at the country.
MESSI like I said, now, Tucker employs the journalistic technique of interrupting every sentence, not letting him finish a sentence with an incredulous question or accusation seeking to undermine Cruise's statements and make him look stupid to the audience.
And you know, it's a classic technique, the ABC do it all the time.
But over the course of the interview, Ted Cruz did call out Tucker's hypocrisies and anti Western views, and Cruiz does have the moral authority, not Tucker Carlson.
So you want to ask how to supporting Israel benefit us?
Right now, this tiny little country the size of the state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for us and taking out their top military leadership and trying to take out their nuclear capacity.
That makes America much safer.
Exactly, Young Israelis are fighting America's enemy for it.
They are shouldering the burden of this fight.
All that's asked of Trump is to deploy the bunker busters to take out the nucleo sites that.
Are too deep underground. Now it's head Crews.
Also called out what he claimed, and I agree with, was his weird obsession with Israel.
By the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing. The obsession with Israel. Well, we're talking about for it country. You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking about Japanese, and we're not talking about the Brits, you're not talking about the French.
The question what about the Jews? What about the Jews?
You Sam might now, Senator, you're just in the questions Tucker to me, you're asking why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy?
That's what you just asked, hardly saying that, and I have that It's exactly what you just said.
And as you know, Trump already described Tucker as kooky this week. Well, influential figures like Steve Bannon are now starting to say that MAGA will follow Trump with whatever he decides to do.
President Trump decides to do that I know, and particularly his skills as a communicator, that he will come and walk people through it in the MAGA movement. Look, there'll be some, but the vast majority of the Mega movement go, look, we trust your judgment.
You've walked us through this.
We don't like it, in fact, maybe we hate it, but you know, we'll get on board.
And it's true.
And it's a good thing that Bannon is now backing in Trump. It indicates this is the action Trump is going to take.
And it's right.
Voters will and should trust Trump's judgment. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Kamani is still refusing to surrender, a point he made in a nationwide television address.
The Iranian nation will not surrender to anyone aiming to impose anything on it. The damage to America if it gets militarily involved, would be an irreparable damage.
No doubt.
But the time for talks and negotiation has passed. Trump made that clear when Putin offered to broker a deal between Iran and America. Trump told him to sort out his own ceasefire first.
I said, Vladimir, let's mediate Russia first.
You can worry about this later.
And it's interesting because when not even Putin is taking Iran's side, I mean, it was offering to mediate, so he's not even taking Iran's side. It's an indication of just how isolated the Islamic Republic is, which makes it even more bizarre why Penny Wang kept implying there was an equivalence between Iran and Israel in refusing to explicitly
endorse Israel's fight against Iran. The Albanese government has been extremely out of step with the international community, and Penny Wang has even had to change her language over the past week to slightly strengthen her criticism of Iran, yet she still can't endorse Israel's actions, and on Sunday on Insiders, she urged both Israel and Iran to de escalate. She even had a phone conversation with the Iranian foreign minister, yet as far as I know, she didn't speak to Israel.
She's shattered the relationship with Israel.
University of Melbourne professor of political science Timothy Leech wrote about the absurd foreign policy position of the Albanese government in a brilliant article today. He said that the Albanese government is prone to Wongism, the belief that negotiation and restraint is the solution to every conflict.
Wogism.
He says, we've lost the stomach for armed confrontation and have defunded.
The Australian military to prove it. And I think that puts it so well.
It explains the bizarre refusal of albin Easy to invest more in defense when every other major country around the world accepts this necessity, and most are not even on the frontline of an aggressive China like we are now. In the article, Timothy leech Lynch also writes, did Israel just call a halt to all? That this little liberal democracy, which is ten times smaller than the state of Victoria, has done more to advance the rights progressives demand, gender quality, LGDPQI, liberation,
religious freedom than an Iranian theocracy designed against them. And Timothy even praises Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahoo for his contribution to civilizational flourishing. He writes, few democratic leaders ended the careers and lives of more fascists than Thatcher after nineteen eighty two, and yet in Yahoo since last weekend. But it is their detractors who claim to be principled anti fascists. They're detractors who claim to be principled anti fascists, Isn't
that brilliantly put? And that's been the absurdity of the Albaneze government's position this entire time. They've preferred to take the side of Islamist regimes that oppose everything the progressive left supposedly stand for, instead of backing Israel, which is on the right side of history. Donald Trump knows this that Israel's on the right side of history, Yet he
is under pressure from the Republican isolationists. Trump's decision on whether to support Israel in eliminating nuclear sites should not be driven by the narrow, reactionary lens of the Maga ethos.
It should be made with the knowledge.
That he has the power to restore global stability with a move of such consequence that will cement his legacy. Trump can be the president who ends Iran's nuclear weapons program, a feat that eluded many others. It would also be supported by international leaders. If he chooses to do this, he'll be elevated in the history books to a figure of political courage and greatness. If he chooses not to do this, he'll earn a reputation for cowardice, already reflected
in his nickname Taco Trump always chickens out. The Pentagon is currently getting its ducks in a row. The military, arsenal and infrastructure are almost in place in preparation for the American strikes, and they could be as soon as Friday night or this weekend. Despite the pressure mounting, I expect the President will make the right call, and I think he already has all right big show coming out across live to Israel with a former director of the
Prime Minister's Press Office, Shotley, plus Dave Sharma. But now let's bring in tonight's panel, National Senator Matt Canavan and Sky News' host James Morrow, and let's start without the fracturing of the Republican.
Party and the MAGA movement.
Matt, this is exposing the very real ideological differences in the MAGA movement, isn't it?
It sure is, Shari.
I mean, Donald Trump really launched himself onto the national stage in a debate in South Carolina in twenty sixteen when he evicerated the then I supposed Bush doctrine in the Middle East. It was very controversial, little gasp in the audience when he did, but he kind of won that debate. He won that debate that the so called Forever Wars were a mistake and should never have happened. And I suppose I'm also I'm concerned here right now.
I mean, have we learned the lessons of the last twenty years, So I'm very worried about what's happening here. I think it's very important when you get involved in any conflict situation to know exactly what the objective is that needs to be clear, and also how are you going to get out of it? And I'm not so sure what the objective here is because I hear different things the last few weeks. Is it the nuclear program, is it regime change. I'd be very concerned about the latter.
Between a country three times the size of Iraq with three times of population, it hasn't worked very well today the last twenty years, and I think that's something that the debate needs to take into consideration here. Whenever the US has intervened in the Middle East, in North Africa, it's usually made things worse. So I just think it is good to pause here. I hope the President is considering all of these things very deeply because it has huge implications for the world, and.
Of course he is considering them very deeply. But you know, James, and I respect Matt's point of view. Of course I respect Matt enormously, But James, if you can't, I'd bring yourself to destroy a nuclear facility that Iran has refused to agree to stop producing uranium, that even the IAEA has called out that they're not abiding by the protocols.
They're refusing inspectors into several sites. I mean if he can't take that basic decision to destroy a nuclear facility, then there is no US leadership anymore.
Well, I don't think i'd go that far. I'd say this. You know, there is a very respectable America first position that says, assisting with B two bombers to blow up the photo nuclear site here with these bunker buster bombs is something that fits within that category. Because you're not talking about boots on the ground. The second you're talking about any American boots on the ground in Iran, I would be exceedingly very nervous about that in the same sort of matter is But I think that you have
to telescope about the history of this year. You know, we're very much focused on Iran and the nuclear deal, and you know this position that we're in, ironically has been created by the Obama administration, by previous American administration, so we're trying to undo that. But I have to go back for the nineteen seventy nine and the Iranian revolution.
And you know, as far as I'm concerned, from the moment the Revolutionary Guards and the students who later became the Revolutionary Guards stormed that embassy and held American hostages for four hundred and forty four days. You know, a state of war has essentially existed between the Iranian clerical
regime and the United States. I think to do something to collapse that regime, not occupy Iran and install our own personal though it would be great to see the Shah come back and great see you know, the Iranian royal family come back in to the picture giants. Yeah, Matt, you got to go.
You've got to go further back, James, I mean the six and the CIA toppled, they raise a khan that's sorry, the Mussadae democratically elected government in nineteen fifty three. Before that, the British government installed an Imperial Army general in nineteen twenty five in Iran, displicing a monarchy that exists in sevento eighty nine. I mean, it's I mean, how many times should we interfere?
And in.
Century? They say, yeah, look, I mean.
It hasn't and things gotten worse and worse and worse every time.
Well okay, but Matt, you know, sorry, like you know, I do have to sort of say that the idea of this molocracy, you know, with nuclear weapons is simply you know, not a good thing for the world. And even without the even without the nuclear weapons, even with the nuclear weapons, this regime has been a sponsor of absolute horrendous terrorism. You know, it created the Lebanese civil war with Hezbollah, It you know, sponsored Hamas, It sponsors
all sorts of really bad, destabilizing things. If you can cross that off of the balance sheet of the Middle East,
that regime. You know, the Iranian people don't like this regime much either, you know, so you know, this isn't like an Iraq situation where Iraq you know, had nothing to do with nine to eleven and did not have WMDs, and that was you know that we were lied into that war, and you know, I totally acknowledge that, and that was a mistake, but we can't let that mistake, and it was a terrible mistake of the West to then say we will never go and assist in any
sort of promotion of our own ends again. And you know, that's where that's where I differ from the Strong America. First is I think that you know, this sort of foreign policy is perfectly within that agenda. You're not talking about, you know, the road to Tehran or anything like that. You're just talking about blowing up a facility and.
Going away exactly, and just to have the final say on that, I mean, America verse has got a main putting America Verse, which means not letting America's greatest enemy.
In Iran have a nuclear weapon.
All right, let's move on to renewable Labor's renewable agenda. Treasurer and Jim Chalmers spoke about this at the Press Club.
Have a look.
The global net zero transition will also reshape our revenue from resources. Now, this evolution in our revenue base is one of the reasons tax reform is so crucial to budget sustainability, on top of restraining spending, finding savings and working on longer term spending pressures.
All right, Matt, I know you're fired up about this, and it does sound like net zero could be more expensive than we.
Have been told.
Absolutely right, Shoes is a shocking admission from the Treasurer. They're really hearing for the first time. Officially, I mean unofficially and myself have been pointing out the fact that net zero is going to cost Australia a fortune, particularly given our second and third biggest exports are fossil fuels. But what we've seen from the government to date until this shocking admission, is that somehow, I know that's okay, they say, because we're going to become a green energy
export superpower, and primarily with something called hydrogen. Sometimes is an idea will export solar power through the northern territory as well, these crazy ideas, and the idea, I suppose with the assumption has been that well, those incomestrooms, those export revenues will just simply replace may even that they may even grow further than what we export from coal and gas. But the Treasurer has just admitted that actually pursuing that zero is going to come at a major
cost to the federal budget. And then the other thing that he sort of slipped in there was, you know, it's sort of cute, doesn't it, Shari When they say tax reform, whenever they hear the word tax reform, that means tax increases. Because he said when he tax reform increases sustainability of the budget, that means he wants more revenue.
He wants more taxes from you.
And it would be nice if politicians just said what they mean sometimes and clearly what the Treasurer means right now is to increase your taxes.
Indeed, there's a lot of tax hikes disguised as reform. Let's turn to the breaking news this afternoon, that is X rocket exploited during routine testing.
And it doesn't look like Elon Musk.
Has commented yet. Maybe we can have a look at that vision. As we're chatting James, what is SpaceX saying about.
This, Well, all I've seen from them is basically a statement saying something went really wrong, and we are investigating what went wrong here. Now, you know, this is a huge economic task free Luckily, I believe there was no space answer said there's been no loss of life, no casualties to say, everybody stay away from the area while we figure out what went wrong. Obviously this is a terrible disaster. But you know, on the other hand, Elon Musk I think has a good sort of message about
these sort of failures. He says, you know, you learn from mistakes you make, and you keep going and you accept that these things are going to happen, and without casualty, that's great. Space expiration is going to be a dangerous business. But I am one of those people who actually think space exploration is also you know, a good idea just from a technological scientific Yeah, human had any point of view, No.
Indeed, I think it is as well.
And just finally, before we go, highly embarrassing story in the Australian Today about a senior editor at the Sydney Morning Herald, David King. He was on a conference call with journalists when he started stripping off. Matt, this was probably understandable in the COVID era, but how doesn't everyone learned now to deal with their cameras.
Well?
I mean, far be for me to cast the first shari. I regularly forget to unmute my mic, even after.
All these years.
Hope I'll never do anything as embarrassing as this is. Very embarrassing. Of course he was going on a workout though, so hopefully ever happens again, he'll be in much better shape for everyone.
There you go, all right, Matt Canavan, James ay, good to see you both. All right, Well, let's return to the terrible news this afternoon that Soroko Hospital in southern Israel has been hit with a ballistic missile from Iran. Well, Israel precisely targets military sites and nuclear facilities Iran is trying to kill innocent civilians in hospitals.
It's sickening and unacceptable.
And for more that's cross live now to Israel, where the longtime director of the Prime Minister's Press office, Daniel Seaman.
Joins me. Daniel, thank you so much for your time.
What can you tell us about this devastating attack and are the hits from Iran overnight?
Well, they attacked this will twice through the night.
I think they were very kind to not to do this in the middle of the night, just before we went to sleep, and then to wake us up in the morning.
But that's that.
Cynicism is part of our attitude here. The first attack there were no real casualties. The second one they hit in Tel Aviv area, and the other one is in the hospital in Soroca, which completely destroyed the whole part
of that hospital. The interesting thing is that yesterday Soroka evacuated that entire part of the hospital understanding that it is not secure enough, and as a result, we had this miracle this morning that only a few slightly injured, but the hospital they had to evacuate the patients and move them to other hospitals, and now they have to restore, and they're opening up parts of the hospital that have been closed down for years to bring back the people
from the area of the south of It's the major hospital in the south of Israel. So we're looking We constantly focus on the fortunate aspect of it and not at the tragedies.
Daniel, When you see that Iran continues to deliberately target civilians a hospital, does this increase pressure on the United States, on Trump to step in and support Israel.
I can't speak for the Americans. It's not us, and we're not looking for them to do that. We've been able to take care of this very well on our own. But our point is that this is not Israel's battle. We have been thrusted into the center of this because Iran for many years, has built this through the tentacles of the octopus, have built this attempt to annihilate.
Israel, which they call the little Satan.
The great Satan is not only the United States, but what represents to them is the entire Western world, and we're just the closest to them. So their part, what their attent or intention was to rid themselves first of us, and then they were building intercontinental ballistic missiles.
Israel, as you.
Can see, is like twelve minutes away. They don't need intercontinental ballistic missiles for US that's to target Europe and the United States.
They can already reach Europe.
So what we're trying to say here is it's not only our battle, but we're handling it. If they want to join in, we're not going to prevent them from doing it. But right now we understand what our mission is here, and our goal is to rid them of the ability of having nuclear weapons so they don't pose an existential threat to Israel anymore.
Indeed, Daniel Nadiyahu has responded as saying that the tyrants of Tehran will pay. Already all of the senior leadership, particularly the military leadership, have been killed. So could this mean do you think that it's possible the Supreme leader will be targeted?
I don't know. We can't say what could or could not happen. There are many things that have to be taken into consideration with the targeting of a religious leader. Not only we may not like the religion, but still he is a religious leader for many on their side. The one thing you can say about both Trump and e TANIAO. They have been very unconventional in their thinking regarding the Middle East. All these things that were accepted as principles over the past forty fifty years, they've changed.
First off, the Abrahamic Accords. Everybody always thought that you have to make Israel, has to make concessions, recognize the other side, et cetera, et cetera. They said, no, here abrahaming of courts. There's other ways of going about this. The same thing regarding the war against the terrorists and all we're taking them on. We're no longer trying to appease them. So there may be other options here with
Tehran that weren't nobody's thought about. For example, in Gaza, nobody they all kept saying that the day after has to be the Palestinian authority taking over. Now they've offered what Trump and Natania are offering, This relocation of the Gaza strip, something nobody accepted, which is acceptable all around the world. So here, even in Tehran, there may be another option, such as perhaps the leadership believing and then the United States will not have to have boots on
the ground. But in Germany and Japan, we have those examples from history that showed the United States can go in there and guide this country just like they did with Japan and Germany after World War Two, guide them to being a democracy and a functioning country without being their enemy.
All right, Daniel Seaman, really appreciate your time and your insights.
Thank you so much. Now still to come.
Dave Sharma rips into the weak response from the Albaneze government on Iran's nuclear build up. Plus Ben Robert Smith fights for justice with a bid to take his case to the High Court.
That's next.
Welcome back, Victoria Cross recipient Ben Robert Smith wants to take his legal fight against.
Nine to the High Court.
This in a final effort to overturn findings that, on the balance of probabilities, he committed war crimes. Robert Smith has filed an application for special leave to appeal. He's seeking a new trial, requesting nine's former witness P seventeen can give evidence about her conversation with Nick McKenzie, the journalist for Nine, which was caught on tape.
I shouldn't tell you preach ethics in doing that like this is where like this is to position now if they knew that, impeat to you that.
In a separate notice.
The former SAS soldier also claims he was denied the presumption of innocence in the defamation trial. And we also note that the Full Court of the Federal Court dismissed Ben Robert Smith's appeal and rejected his arguments that nine had improperly accessed his legally privileged information. Now for more details, I'm joined by The Australian's Legal Affairs contributor Chris Merritt.
Chris, thank you so much for your time.
Now, there is evidence that I've outlined on this show that suggests nine did have access to Ben Roberts Smith's emails.
So this avenue.
Surely needs to be explored to see what precisely they had and whether it was privileged.
That's the in a nutshell, that's the basis of Ben Robert Smith's attempt to reopen this case. He's arguing thatudence was concealed. He says the Full Federal Court was wrong on this point and on the basis of one document, a draft statement of claim, which he says was suppressed during the appeal process. He wants to reopen the hearing, have a new trial and cross examine his former lover
on assertions she made in this document. Now he argues that if he's able to do that, he would be able to introduce evidence about exactly what nine knew, exactly what evidence they had, which he says was concealed, and.
He's claiming and Nine's denying, but he's claiming that it amounts to misconduct and that he was denied a fair trial because she was Nine's witness. She'd made allegations that she threatened to put them before the judge, and then she was paid seven hundred thousand dollars in hush money by Channel nine, by the Sydney Morning Herald, which is utterly extraordinary.
And Chris, they've never publicly excp.
Explained why they would pay a witness hush money and make her sign an NDA to stop her giving evidence at an appeal trial.
These are all very important points, but I do make the point that there's no right to reopen this hearing this matter in the High Court. Only ten percent of special leave applications get approval from the High Court for a full hearing in the court, and even then you've then got to run the gauntlet of the seven High
Court judges, so it's a long shot. I think about whether he gets special leave and then whether he wins in the High Court, and even if he wins, he goes back and gets a new trial, gets new trial.
I mean it's a long shot, but Ben Robert Smith obviously feels so aggrieved for what he sees as injustice that he's trying to have it heard in the High Court.
Yes, look, I sympathize with him. I think his argument on the face of things, if it's verified, and in mind we haven't heard the nine side of things yet. This special application process does require the other side to put their case, which we haven't heard yet. But on the face of things, if his assertions are correct and evidence has been concealed in the best of all possible worlds, that should be explored, just to clear the air on this matter.
And you think this is someone who was a Victoria Cross recipient, he was Australia's greatest war hero.
He should be given a fair trial. He deserves that at the very least, and he's claiming he hasn't had that.
Look, I would agree, but I make this point. I think defamation proceedings are the wrong forum. This is a very serious matter. He's been found on the civil standard of proof to be a war criminal that should never have gone before a civil court. It should be reserved for the most serious forms of criminal justice, not the civil justice.
The media has reported on it. So are you saying the media shouldn't be airing these allegations.
Well, I think if in retrospect, if I were Ben Robert Smith, he would have been better advised to sit on his hands and wait to see if the criminal justice system wanted to do anything about this.
And then as it is.
As it is, he's had the disadvantage of a lower standard approof none of the procedural checks and protections that you get in criminal justice. The playing field, if you like, has been tilted in a way that would not work in his favor, whereas if it was a criminal trial, it would be a fairer procedure.
If you like, beyond reasonable doubt, I suppose, Chris Merritt, thank you so much for your tie. Quite okay, Right, still to come, we'll get the latest on the late night meeting unfolding into whether the Liberal Party should loan or will loan John Pizzuto one point five million dollars and save his political career. Plus y Penny one can't seem to bring herself to endorse Israel's fight against a nuclear Iran.
Dave Sharma joins me.
Next, Welcome back, and let's bring in now Liberal senator and former Australian Ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma. Dave, great to see you, and we've actually got some quite big breaking news. Israel's Defense Minister Israel Katz has just visited the bomb hospital site and he said that one of Israel's war goals now is to target the Supreme Leader Kamani. He's just said this in the past few minutes. He's
described him as the modern Hitler. He said he cannot continue to exist, and he says that under Israel's war goals, without question, the man should not.
Continue to exist.
He's comparing him or he says he's a modern Hitler. So, Dave Sharma, that's extremely significant because the United States President had said that they weren't come after Kamane for the moment. But now we've got Israel's defense minister saying he's the modern Hitler. It's in line with Israel's warld goals. They are going to target him. What's your response, what do you think about this?
Look, obviously, Israel's very upset at Soroka Hospital being hit down in Ursheva. I know the hospital, I've been there, and the government's very angry. I'd wait to see a statement from Prime Minister netin Yahoo about this, thoughdriful reaching any conclusions, because I think look, today, Israel's goals have been to dismantle, degrade, destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, it's ballistic missile program, and discourage it from continuing to support for
armed terrorist groups. And I think those there are all legitimate goals. I think if Israel gets in the business of actively seeking regime change, so to speak, that's a significant shifting goals and it might not enjoy the same level of support across the world. Or indeed, often if foreign adversary comes and suggests regime change in your country, it's often a way to rally the local public there around the existing leadership.
We're almost a week into the war and Israel has been, of course incredibly successful, an extraordinary operation, although as we've just seen, iron is still firing missiles that are actually hitting hospital the most extreme example.
So how much does Israel need American help here?
Well, look, I think America is providing help in tracking and shooting down incoming ballistic missiles, drones and other offensive worponry that Iran is firing at Israel. Look, Israel has no doubt had a tragic loss of life, and many
facilities have been damaged. But I would say my assessment of my understanding of people on the ground is the Iranian response has been less than expected or less than has been feed in large part because Israel got in early and destroyed a number of the ballistic missiles, launch sites.
And launch vehicles as well.
And I think that's meant that Araan's capacity respond has been much more limited than might have been expected.
And do you have a view on whether US President Donald Trump will make the final call to use the B two bummers to destroy the Photo nuclear site.
Look, I think, as he said today, he may do it, he may not do it.
No one knows the answer to that question.
Very true statement, but clearly the United States is putting in place the assets to do that should wish. I mean, there's another US aircraft carrying a battlegroup that's on its way to the Middle East and will arrather the next day or two that joins one that is there already they have been moving assets that are in nearby theaters, including europe air to air refuelers, strategic bombers and the like.
And I think that gives them the options should he make that decision, and clearly their active discussion in Washington. There's no great secret about that, about what US assistance or involvement might look like, and what are the risks to any such operation and how would that play out?
Dave.
Just on the Australian response when the war broke out, Pennywog called for both sides to de escalate, as if there were some equivalents between Israel and Iran.
How ludicrous is this are? These were these comments?
Well, she called both sides of de escalator. She also called for a return to dialogue. I mean, Israel and Iran have not spoken in forty six years. The Islamic Republic of Iran does not recognize Israel. In fact, it's committed to Israel's destruction. There are no diplomatic relations and there has been no dialogue. There's nothing to return too.
So I think that was unanchored from reality. But I'm pleased to see that she's changed her tone and a message considerably since then, I expect an Anthony Albanezi at the G seven meeting got quite a clues to you about what other world leads were doing. And it was clear that Australia's calls plaintiff calls were just out of set with where the international community is on this issue exactly.
And I like the way you put that about her comments, you know, not attached to reality. As a former ambassador yourself, do you shudder at the sort of language we have heard from Pennywong and the Albanezi government and just how much of a departure it is from long term bipartisan support for israel.
I do And I think it's done in Australia's standing damage. I mean, I think we've we've basically dealt ourselves into irrelevance under this government. I mean, you know, Penny Wong issues these statements from Adelaide and press conferences, but the world is not listening. No one is taking Australia's views on this issue seriously. They're getting on and dealing with it,
and you know it. Look as I think most world leaders overwhelmingly recognize that Iran's decent, stabilizing actions in the region. It's pursued of nuclear weapons, it's ballistic missile program, it's support to armed terrorist groups has been a negative force throughout the world, and if Iran is not prepared to deal with that through diplomacy, then we should be glad it's being dealt with through other means.
M Indeed, now, I've been contacted by so many people over this over the past week. There are hundreds of Australian citizens stranded in both Israel and Iran, and the Albanezi government has offered to get people from Israel into Jordan, but then nothing, so they'd be elderly people, new mothers, just stranded in Jordan. And in fact, the Australian embassy was closed for a few days when this first happened. Do you think this is all an acceptable response?
Look, I understand that you know our embassy and the staff, they're operating under very difficult circumstances.
You know, I've.
Been in touch with people there just to make sure they know that you know, they've got our support. I know it's a challenging environment. I've also been in touch with a number of Australians who have been evacuated through Jordan. From what I understand, the ones I've spoken to, they've been escorted to the border crossing with Jordan, facilitated across it, escorted into a ma'am, provided accommodation in a Man.
I think you know, is that by this government, that by Ajak? Is that by Ajack or by the Albanesi government.
No, my understanding is that that's by the government. An individual I heard from today who's in Israel, who's going out through that route. He explained to me that this is what the plan and the process was and if that's indeed happening, and I think it should be being the Australian government should be facilitating each of those moves as much as is possible, consistent with our footprint on
the ground. But I'm hesitant to be more critical than that because I know that there are is a very difficult operating environment.
Well, I hope they are going to do that for more people, because I can't tell you how many people
have contacted me saying they feel totally abandoned. Dave, thank you very much for your time tonight, And just a quick mention, I'll be speaking with both Dave Shama and Nova Peris, who was one of those Australians surrounded in Israel on Sunday at an event organized by the Jewish Community Appeal Communal Appeal JCA and for those interested in coming along, please contact the JCEA now after the break. Will the Victorian Liberals lend John Persudo one point five
million or will they end his political career? Plus the major decision in a US Supreme Court about gender transition. That's with Caroline Marcus next. The Victorian Liberals are currently debating whether or not to bail out John Pursuito and joining mid now is Sky New senior reporter Caroline Marcus. Caroline, what's the latest on this late night meeting to decide whether to save his career or let him go bankrupt?
Well, John Persuito walked into this meeting a couple of hours ago, Sharian. He said he was feeling hopeful as he was preparing to present his side of things, give his testimony to the committee of nineteen people for a few minutes, and then they'll have the next few hours to decide. It could be a long night, but we are expecting a decision tonight and that decision will be whether or not the party loans him the one point five million dollars he's after. Now he owes a total
of two point three million dollars. He's already managed to raise some funds. And this is, of course, after a court found that he had to famed war Redeeming repeatedly. I mean, this all stems back to him smearing war Redeeming as a Nazi sympathizer after she simply gave a speech at an event to uphold women's biological sex base rights that happened to be gay crashed by Nazis. And again and again he's made these decisions, you know, not to settle with her, not to apologize, to let it
go to court, and then finally losing the trial. Now he has to stump up this money. If he's not loaned this amount, then he will go bankrupt, and then he can't effectively sit in Parliament, so it will go his seat will go to a by election.
Many would be happy to see the back of him.
Now, tell us about this major decision in the US Supreme Court that will change the debate about gender transition in children.
Well, the U.
S Supreme Court has decided to uphold a law in Tennessee which effectively bans gender based treatments for children, So that's puberty blockers and other sort of medications to help kids transition from one sex to another. It made this decision six'.
Three it was.
Divided on pretty ideological, grounds but it's a big step and it kind of follows a lot of what's happening around the.
WORLD i mean in THE us.
Alone, obviously we've Seen trump and his administration do a number of executive orders and policies to try and keep boys and men out of women's, sport out of the, military transgender. People but this about children arguably even more. Important we had a landmark, study the Cast review in THE, uk which found there wasn't the evidence was weak for
a gender affirmative. Treatment and In australia we had a family court judge just a couple of weeks ago make a rare step to identify a gender, expert the person who literally writes the gender guidelines in this, country and completely excoriate her evidence of this.
Hearing, yeah, Indeed, caroline thank you so much for your. Update we'll see you tonight on The Late. Debate all, right, well thank you so much for your company this week With Annie. Luck by the time we catch up again at eight o'clock On. MONDAY us will have got. Involved here's For.
Murray