Showing good evening. We'll breaking news now. Pro Palestinian protesters have taken over a building at the University of Melbourne. They are vowing they will not move. University staff are warning the group leave now or face arrest. Victoria Police have told us they're monitoring the situation and police are in a position to respond should there be any public
order issues. Now, what's unfolding right now at the University of Melbourne is a copycat of what took place at Columbia University in the US, where students took over Hamilton Hall now already classes at Melbourne Uni were canceled this afternoon as students renamed the Arts West Building Mummled Hall. They set up tents and moved away furniture. Have a look now this unfolding as we speak at the University of Melbourne. Protesters have occupied a building. The police are
on standby. I'm going to cross live to a reporter who is on the scene shortly. The Australian newspaper is now reporting that the protesters are getting legal advice as they prepare for the police to move in. Will bring you all the breaking news on this as it unfolds. As I said, I'm going to cross live to a reporter who's on the scene a bit later in the show. Now to the budget. All this fevered speculation in Canberra that the budget means Anthony Albanesi wants to head to
the polls early is nonsense. The Prime Minister plans on going full term. Anthony Albanesi and Jim Chalmer's strategy is to bring down inflation with this budget and then call an election, perhaps later this year, but most likely next year. Alban Ezi even said this publicly today. He says we won't head to the polls this year. He's indicated the election will be held after March twenty twenty five, and
even as late as August, although that's very unlikely. Will there be a budget before the next election.
The budget will set a budget for March next year, the elections due in two thousand and twenty five, and we'll set out that timetable later in this year. You can't have a budget and an election at the same time in May, so we'll have to make that adjustment, just as has occurred in the past. You can actually hold the election later. You could hold it as late as August, I think is the advice.
So Alban easy, making clear that he would prefer to stay in as Prime Minister as long as possible. In this sense, the budget is as much about politics as it is about the economy, and perhaps even more so. Plenty of sweetness, plenty of spending despite the need to keep inflation in check. Now The Australians Editor at Large Paul Kelly writes about the paradoxes in the budget and he says it's loaded with danger. In his view, it risks being the wrong response for our economic times. He writes,
forget the orthodoxy. Labour now operates under new rules. It is spending money to cut inflation. It runs an expansionary fiscal policy as the Central Bank frets over interest rates and ditches two generations of pro market liberalism to build a new economy around state intervention and green industry policy. Now, this budget is highly controversial, especially the Future Made in
Australia PAW package. That's the twenty two point seven billion dollar investment in the next ten years in green energy. This is where the government picks companies to give grants to or to invest in, rather than just leave it to the private sector, leave it to venture capital companies to work out. Even left leading journalist Michelle Gratton was worried that this would see taxpayer funds will, as she put it, go up in smoke.
What these protections will be, What are the off ramps? Why people should have confidence that their money won't just go up in smoke.
The Treasurer today seemed to acknowledge just how controversial the budget was, but he argued he was channeling Hawk and Keating in their reform agenda.
Now, anything this ambitious will invite a range of responses. I'm relaxed about that. Not all of those responses, my view, are right. The great reformers of the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties weren't successful because they looked back and reached for the solutions that might have been right for the problems of forty years prior. They were successful because they looked forward. They were successful because they recognized that the
times had changed and the world was changing. They were successful because they were strategic rather than nostalgic.
But critics disagree with the treasurer, and they question what impact the budget will have on interest rates. The Treasurer says the budget will take the pressure off inflation, but
economists sphere. It could make inflation worse. Now, Jim Chalmer's argument is that giving relief to areas like energy bills and rents reduces those components of CPI, But the risk is that the extra money some people have in their pocket could be spent elsewhere and thus contribute to inflation and the need for a rate rise.
I still think the most likely outcome is right hikes, but maybe not through.
The idea that this is somehow going to trick the Reserve Bank into reducing interest rates.
Come on, it's a con job.
This is inflationary.
It's going to drive up inflation and therefore interest rates.
So this is why the decision by labor to in effect spend their way out of an inflation crisis is, as Paul Kelly says, against the orthodoxy, it's high risk. Where Albin Eazy was questioned on this in the media today, you're.
Entirely confident that the combination of the energy bill relief and the increase in common wealth franticisms will drive down inflation by that half a percentage point.
Next to you, well, that's what Treasury have said.
We should you back them because they get stuff wrong. They got the deficit which is turned into a surplus wrong by about ten million dollars.
No what we've done.
If that calculation is wrong from Treasury and if rates rise, and they could do so of course for a variety of reasons, but if the government then is blamed for the rate rise, this will be a massive political issue heading into the next federal election. Now, Albanezi currently sits in the lodge with a slim majority. Labour has seventy eight seats, the coalition holds fifty five, Independence twelve and
minor parties six. The coalition needs around nineteen seats to form majority government, but if an election were held today, it's likely that Labor would lose its majority at the very least now, with a four percent swing against Labor, they'd likely lose eleven seats, taking them down to sixty seven seats. Now, these eleven seats would be gains for the coalition, bringing their tally up to around sixty six.
This would of course mean a hung parliament, but then the coalition might also win a seat or two back from the Teals, putting them ahead of Labor. Now, no question, the coalition recovering ground is a very tough ask, but Dutton's team believe that this budget makes their task of
trying to win government just that little bit easier. Now, coming up on the show tonight, can the Liberals win back the blue ribbon seat of Wentworth from the teal a legraspender will their new candidate Roe Knox will be joining me for her first exclusive interview later this show. A Labor politician also has today called for Israel's annihilation by repeating a hate chant that even Anthony Albanesi said
has no place in Australia. So will he find the courage as Prime Minister to call out his own politician. Plus Julie Bishop criticized for wearing expensive dress to a fashion week instead of shutting down anti Semitism at a and you where she's the Chancellor. But first, now let's bring in tonight's political panel, Liberal Senator Holly Hughes and Labor MP Andrew Charlton. Holly, Andrew, great to see you both. Look, let's of course start with the budget. The big question
today has been inflation. The Treasurer committing seven point eight billion dollars on new cost of living measures. This includes a three point five billion energy bill relief package. There have been some concerns from economists that this will drive up inflation. Holly, what do you think do you think the budget here does risk increasing inflation and thus leading the IRBA to have to put up rates.
Absolutely, But I think this three hundred dollar payment to every household is typical of this labor government, completely ill conceived because again no details about how it's going to be delivered and who it's going to be delivered to.
And I know here with Andrew, I know there was a question, hypothetical question by Paul Fletcher in the House of Representatives today about someone who might have to mote from Bellvue Hill to Paramatta and also have a lovely holiday home in Palm Beach whether or not they would get payments for each of those homes. And we don't know, because again the devil is in the detail and it's completely lacking. But what we do know the one thing that the Treasurer has said that is true.
This is a labor budget.
This is a tax and spend, tax and spend, tax and spend budget. It is hugely putting pressures on families. The spending has cost thirty thousand dollars per person in Australia. To people in Australia, I feel thirty thousand dollars better off since this government's been in No. The reality is every average family with a mortgage has had to find an additional thirty five thousand dollars per year while seeing their standard of living drop by over seven and a
half percent. This is a budget that is just going to cause more and more pain, and more and more pain for longer.
All right, Andrew, what's your response to this? I mean I quoted Paul Kelly in my introduction there that this is an unorthodox budget in the sense that labor is spending its way out of an inflation crisis. What do you think about that criticism today?
Well, firstly, can I just say maybe Holly wasn't listening last night, but she just said that the government hasn't provided any details. They haven't said who it's going to go to, and that's going to everyone. It's going to be received for going every time. I'm received as an automatic rebase.
So if you've got a couple.
Of houses to get it a couple of times, don't interrupt.
That's the detail House.
You've tried to attack me. Now you're trying to interrupt me.
You ask two questions. The government has been incredibly clear on the answer to both of those questions. It goes to everybody and you get it automatically. So if those are your two main questions coming out of the budget, you need to read the budget papers more clearly, Charie. The reason why the Liberals are hopping up and about this is because Labor has delivered what they could not in three terms of government. They could not deliver a
single budget surplus and Labor has just delivered too. And I understand they're mad about that. I understand that really sticks in their craw. But the truth is we have delivered the appropriate and prudent fiscal setting that they were unable to and that is why we have been able to reduce inflation now by more than half from what they left us. So all they've got is negativity and personal attacks and not reading the budget. And you can see why Australia didn't vote for them at.
The last time.
Come on, Andrew, just say it, Just say it.
Tell Australians they've never had it so good, because that is the rhetoric coming out of the Albanese government. And I'm yet to meet one Australian whose life has got better since this government has been in power. We've seen housing go up, groceries go up, insurance go up, fuel go up. We know that there's been twelve interest rate rises. No one is better off. He said before the election it wouldn't be easy under alban easy, and quite frankly was Yep, it's a slogan.
It's proven very prophetic.
Holly.
You left all those prices going up. You left inflation at the end of your government, at the end of the rate. It is right now.
You are the reason why all of those categories.
This is homegrown inflation.
And we have now brought the rate of inflation down by half. Can't argue numbers.
One hundred.
Abs.
So Shari, we have hang on, just let me finish on this point. We have we have improved the budget position from what you left us, like two hundred and fifteen billion dollars over the six years Andrew Andrew with a trillion dollars of debt.
Andrew, you go, thank you. Look it's we have seen economists today who are not politically aligned, who are saying that yes, while the assistance on energy and rent might bring down those components of the CPI. Many Australians having the extra cash could mean that they'll spend it in the economy and that that's a risk that that will then raise inflation. So these are economists saying this today, not the liberals. What's your response to that concern? Do you admit that that is a concern.
Well, the direct impact of these rebates and other costs of living measures the Treasury has forecast will reduce the rate of inflation this year and next year, and what that means is that we'll have a lower rate of headline inflation, and of course that takes pressure off prices
and it also takes pressure off the RBA. There are plenty of different views out there about other consequences of that relief, but the Treasury has forecast and we've seen this in the previous round of relief that we provided, where the Treasury also forecast that there would be a negative impact on inflation, and we did see that negative impact on inflation coming through, and inflation has come down since that last set of relief measures. That's exactly what
we anticipate with these relief measures. Done it before, we're proposing to do it again.
Although they do although they do coincide, of course, with greater tax cuts that will come in from July one, so people will have more money in their pocket, Holly. Just to be even handed here, you know, it is unusual to see the Coalition arguing today that that three
hundred dollars energy assistance. I mean, I mean the Coalition has been hammering Labor over the fact that he promised energy relief would be you know, two hundred and seventy if you'd have two hundred and seventy five dollars more in your pocket from your power bills. The Coalition has been hammering Labor over that promise, which has been a broken promise. Rightly, so Labor is now saying every single Australian will have three hundred dollars back in their pocket
in energy relief. So I find it unusual that the Coalition has argued against this today. Wouldn't you be support of that?
Well?
I think that the difference is Shari that they promised to two hundred and seventy five reduction in your power bills so that your power bills would actually decline, that energy would not be as expensive. Instead we have seen it continue to do.
This is going to be this is going to be three.
Yeah, but it's three hundred dollars off what your bill is. The electricity costs the same. You're just getting a rebate or a subsidy or a payment, whatever you want to call it. Your electricity bill hasn't gone down. It's just three hundred dollars that the government is paying what mister Albnezy promised Australians.
Why should it be means tested? Why shouldn't all Australians have that.
I'm not saying that's what it should be. The question I have to Andrew that he brushed off. No, if you've got multiple houses. If you've got multiple houses, you know what's mess Andrew? Is your government and what's happening? Do you know what we've just been doing in this in the Senate chare This government is putting a billion dollars one billion dollars towards rebranding the Administrative Appeals Tribunal to the Administrative Review Tribunal.
There is the only change will be the A to the R.
Maybe a nice new font and let ahead, but mainly so they can stack it with labor apparachiks as Mark Dreyfuses want to do this is what we had a change of hours order in the Senate today so they could ram it through with some sweetheart deal with the Greens. You tell me a billion dollars is best spent on a rebrand of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal versus going to either cost of living measures. Think of all the money that's going to mental health. We're going to a mental
health crisis. But no, let's do a rebrand for Mark Dreyfus. So if this is a government who's got priorities, right, I don't think so.
All right, Andrew Charlton, you're a very serious economist, so I was quite surprised to see this video of you on social media. Have a look, Andrew, can you explain formally what is a fit check and what you were doing there?
Look, I have to admit I don't know what a fit check is. I believe it is a TikTok trend. Some of my colleagues were having a bit of fun and they decided to jump on a TikTok trend. Some people will love it, some people will hate it. Most of the time in Canberra we're working pretty hard, doing pretty serious business. Every now and then we get a couple of minutes to have a little bit of fun.
It looked a bit like a pre budget fashion parade, all right, Holly Hughes Andrew Charlton, thank you very much for that lively discussion tonight. Now don't go anywhere. The battle to win back seats from the Teals has begun and the liberals new candidate for the seat of Wentworth joins me next for her first exclusive interview. Plus, we'll get the latest on the takeover of a building at the University of Melbourne. Police are now on standby. Stay tune, welcome back.
Well.
The Liberals have a big fight ahead, not only to defeat Labor, but to win back inner city seats from the Teals. The price seat of Wentworth in Sydney's East, currently held by a Legras spender. Now, in a historic move, the New Southelia Liberals have selected their first ever female candidate for the seat, which was of course previously held by Malcolm Turnbull. Former Deloitte consultant and businesswoman Ronox joins me now for her first interview. Broth, thank you so much for joining us today.
Chari, thanks so much for having me on the show.
Now, look, before we get into some of the trickier questions. Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you came to be here?
Oh, thanks, Chary. Yes, I studied law. I then went straight into management consulting. I worked in Chicago and New York with Deloitte Consulting, and I worked in financial services. So we worked for some of the biggest clients on Wall Street. Fantastic experience. Then a group of us left and we formed a small venture capital firm where we invested in pre market entrepreneurs. And now I'm a small
business owner. I've lived in Wentworth for almost twenty years and I'm passionate about the community and I want to bring that big business experience, the entrepreneur experience, the small business experience, and my passionate and knowledge of the seat, so solving the great problems that are facing Wentworth and indeed the country.
And you've left out the important fact you're a mum of course as well. I am a mum teenage kids. Yes i am.
I am a most important job some good ig.
Now let's start with the budget that Jim Chalmers handed down last night. I mean, as a former venture capitalist, you might have a view on the twenty two billion Made in Australia program. What do you think about it?
I certainly have a strong view on that. My view is it's very unusual for a government to be investing this heavily, and there's been some significant concerns around the due diligence in terms of the industries that have been invested in. And I just know as a previous venture capitalist that it's really important to have a huge amount of transparency in what you invest in, and also that you have a really mixed portfolio of investments. And this feels very targeted and.
Like they've picked some companies, particularly that one quantum computing company for a billion dollars instead of diversifying and well, if they had to invest taxpayer funds in a risky area at.
All, absolutely very unusual and very unusual to just do one geographic area as well.
What about this debate that's unfolding about whether the budget will be inflationary.
What do you think.
I have a lot of concerns the budget is inflationary, and we know that in is the biggest driver in the cost of living crisis. This cost of living crisis that has been created by the labor Albanesi government, and
I'm very concerned it's going to continue that inflation. I'm also concerned in the budget there wasn't any there's no growth story, and we don't talk about productivity at all, and the Liberals are constantly talking both about growth, productivity and also obviously the vital importance of reducing inflation.
Although productivity of costs has been lagging for the best part of a decade. Look, you're the seat you're running in. Wentworth has one of the highest Jewish populations in the country. Anti Semitism has been a major issue. What's your view on the Albanesi government's response to this crisis.
I think it's been very poor and very weak leadership. We've seen a huge rise in anti Semitism since the October seventh attacks, and this has been very very concerning for our community, and not only because of the anti Semitism, because it's indicative of a lack of social cohesion that we're seeing throughout the country, and that's because of the weak leadership by this Albanese labor government.
Alegrisbander signed a letter calling for funding to resume to Unread despite its clear links to Hermas. Do you think the federal government should be funding UNRA. I don't.
Israel has shown clear evidence that Anoir was involved in the attacks SPI Kamas on October seventh, and the view of the Teals for signing that letter was that there was no other way to get humanitarian aid into Gaza. And we know for a fact that the Americans were building water jetties. A day later they were doing air drops. So that view that that was the only way to get it in was completely unfounded, and I think it was very disappointing that that letter was signed.
Do you support Natanya move into Rafa to defeat Hermas? So?
I understand Israel's main objectives are to defeat Kamas, and I understand that I'm not a military expert, and my view is we need to focus on bringing home the one hundred and thirty two hostages, and I'll leave that up to the military experts whether moving into Rafa will actually achieve that or not.
So you don't object to Natanyahu going into Rafa on a ground invasion, well.
I think Israel has a right to defend itself. Israel is its own nation. It's able to make those military decisions it sees fit.
All right, Look, the Liberals campaign in went Worth at the last federal election was highly criticized. What are you planning to do to defeat a lag respander and how do you think she's gone as an MP?
So I think the issue with the Teals in general is many people voted for them at the last election because they thought they were independent, but unfortunately the Teals vote overwhelmingly with the Greens and Labor and we know in our seat of Wentworth the biggest issue. I've been talking to small businesses, I've been talking to people on the ground. The biggest issue for Wentworth is a cost of living crisis which is caused by the Labor Albanezi government.
But Legrispender has gone as a local MP for Wentworth.
I think she's been unable to deliver because the Teals don't have a seat at the table and they're unable to get any legislation through the Parliament. So she's been unable to deliver.
All right, ro NOTx, thank you very much for your time.
Miss Thank you so much, Sari.
Now returning to the federal budget. Now for a more in depth analysis of the winners and losers. I'm joined by Macro Business Chief Economist Leith van Ansalen. Leith, thank you very much for joining me once again. Look, as I've been speaking about tonight, there are major concerns from economists about whether the spending in the budget could indirectly lead to rate rises. Do you think this is a legitimate concern?
Not really.
I'm not as concerned about the impact on inflation. So obviously the key signature measures were the cost of living relief in terms of rental subsease, energy substies.
All those sorts of things.
I think those will could bring down inflation marginally or have minimal impact. My bigger concern sharing is that these are band aids to basically cover over poor policy decisions and poor policy making by the federal government, and they do not address the underlying policy failures of this government. So, for example, I talk about it almost every week that
view seems sharing with the rental crisis. The federal Government's going to spend our money to provide rental relief to a rental crisis that has been caused by the federal government's own policy failures, for example in mass immigration. So instead of addressing the policy failures directly, they're going to provide these substies. The same can be said about energy subsies.
So Australia's an energy superpower, Sharry. We should have the cheapest energy in the world, but instead, through policy failure, we actually have some of the most expensive energy in the world and that's driving up our cost of living. It's also seeing our manufacturers broke. So instead of fixing the energy market directly and lowering the cost of energy for households and businesses, the federal government is instead going to spend our money to band Aid over its own
policy failures. I think that's the bigger issue here, rather than focusing on, you know, whether or not it's going to impact inflation in the short run.
Look, there have been concerns, you know, you speak about energy that people like Twiggy Forest will benefit from where the government's directing money and subsidies to in this budget. What's your take on that.
Yeah? Absolutely.
Look, Look, look the whole problem around around energy is Australia has incredibly high energy process. I'm talking about you know, electricity and gas. I'm not obviously talking about oil because we're on an oil producer, but we export the line share of our coal, the line share of our.
Gas we should have.
We are an energy superpower, we should have incredibly cheap energy, but through policy failures, we actually have some of the most expend expensive energy in the world. And as a result, we have a whole conger line of manufacturers that are going broke or that they're going to exit Australia. So Queenos, the Australia's last major plastics manufacturer, Aurica, the exposive manufacturer Nesle,
and PepsiCo have all worn in the last month. But Australia's energy costs are far too high and they're going to either exit Australia or they already have exited Australia. So while the album is government bangs on about its future made policy, we have all these manufacturers who are effectively said Australia is a bad place to do business
because the energy costs are so high. So I think the federal government needs to focus on fixing the energy marketing market delivered US cheap energy so then our manufacturers can actually survive, rather throwing money at all these boon doggle energy as all these boondoggle manufacturing projects look.
Of course, the surplus last night and last year is definitely welcome, no question about that. But the deficits built in, you know, the debt over the next decade is quite terrifying. What's your take on whether enough has been done here?
Yeah.
Look, look, obviously the government's delivered a small surplus this financial years. It's supposed to bigger deficits over the next few years. By world standards, is not incredibly high, but obviously you always want you'd rather have.
Surplaces than deficits.
I think the bigger problem sharring is actually at the state bud the state government level. So you know, I talk about this with you previously. The federal government, through its high immigration policy, actually has boosted its own budget through tax receipts and company taxes. The problem is the cost of that is falling on the state governments, and now we're seeing states like Victoria drowning in monstrous amounts of debt, risking credit rating downgrades. New Southwell governments also
getting buried. And a lot of the reasons for that is its populations have grown really quickly, but it doesn't have the money to provide the infrastructure services for that, and that's burying those governments in debt. So I think the bigger issues around state budgets.
Yeah, all right, Leith fan Onsen, thank you so much for joining me tonight. As always, Now, after the break, a labor MP breaks ranks to accuse Israel of genocide, ending her comments with a hate chart. Class will cross live to the University of Melbourne where students have seized a building and police are on standby. I'm also going to joined be joined by my political panel Josh Burns
and Michael Koga. Stay jammed. All right, welcome back. Let's return to the breaking news now that as we speak, pro Palestinian protesters are refusing to move from the University of Melbourne. They've taken over a building. Classes have been counseled, staff and students were told to avoid the area for their own safety. Lease are on standby. I'm joined now by The Herald's son In Melbourne's reporter Lauren Hutchinson, who is there live at the scene. Lauren, thank you so
much for joining us. Take us through what's happening right behind you.
Well.
Currently either around eighty protests in and outside the buildings being at APM.
The building was scheduled to close. However, at that time only more tenths were being brought in through the building. So there are a dozen of tenths inside the building and still no place on things. And so I understand that the protesters have been warned that they might be arrested. They've been getting legal advice. Can you tell us, you know you've overheard some of what's happening there. What are
they preparing for this evening? Yes, well, only half an hour ago, protesters were briefing each other on what to do when they expect today's police sometime this evening. They were briefing each other on what to do when the great possibility that they will.
Be arrested for trest parting adventures this evening, So they're preparing for the worst.
All right, Lauren Hutchinson, thank you so much for joining us there to bring us that news that encampment happening now. Pro Palestinian protesters have taken over a building at the University of Melbourne. It's exactly what happened at Columbia University with Hamilton Hall that lasted some forty eight hours before police eventually moved in and arrested all the protesters and cleared out that building so that classes could resume. We'll
see how the University of Melbourne handle it. The chancellors at all of the universities pretty much have been extremely weak. Now let's get back to our federal budget coverage. Now let's bring in former Victorian Liberal Party president at Michael Kroger and Labor MP Josh Burns. Thank you both very much for your time this evening. Michael Kroger, first to you, what's your takeout, what's your analysis of the budget handed down by Treasurer Jim Chalmers last night.
Well, he's spending like a drunken salor, so you know, expenditure to GDP next year gets to twenty six point six percent, the highest in forty years. Putting aside the pandemic, he's got one hundred and twenty billion dollars worth of deficits coming in the next four years, which is why I don't think there'll be another budget before before the election. That's before you add the eighty billion dollars off balance sheet that he's spending, which is on sort of on
capital account, not on the income and expenditure account. Spending is out of control under this government. He can't control his spending. He should be thanking the mining industry for keeping his budget afloat. But this guy's out of his depth. He's out of money. And if you want to know why it's so respet reponsible, you just look at the three hundred dollars. Right, these things, of course they should be means tested. Right, people who are well off do
not need the three hundred dollars. But it was all too hard, so he just want to give them money. This is typical labor. It's all to just give it to everybody.
Right.
Australia is going backwards under Charmers. He's not good enough to be treasurer. He's a B grader and he's plundering, you know, the revenues to fulfill his insatiable desire to spend money. And you know, sooner or later the primeness has got to bring him to heal because you know he's damaging the Australian economy. And the final point is this, this is an inflationary budget. If you want to know why.
If you want to know why, inflations three and a half percent, right, it was three percent in two thousand and seven, three percent. The Governor Reserve Bank in two thousand and seven said, I'm worried that inflation is getting more than three percent. I've got to increase interest rates, which he did before the election. You know, interest rates then were six and a half percent six he increased it to six point seventy five percent. Just before the election.
The gap was three and a half percent between the cash rate and and inflation. And so what you've got in Australia now is a situation where the cash rate probably needs to be higher, even though I don't think there'll be three rate rises, it needs to be high to get inflation under control. And Charmers has done nothing except put oil on the fire.
All right, Josh Burns, let's get your response to that. The main things that Michael Kroger just accused your government of spending out of control, The three hundred dollar energy payment should be means tested, and that the budget is inflationary. Josh Burns.
Well, good evening, Shari, and good evening, Michael. I mean full credit to Michael for getting out the talking points. He did it with Gusto, but he missed a couple of key facts, one of which is that this is now the second budget in a row where we've delivered a surplus, something that the coalition didn't do despite winning three terms of government. They didn't do it under Tony Abbott, they didn't do it under Malcolm Turnbull, and they didn't do it under the previous bloke Scott Morris and Jim
Charmers has done it twice. He's proven that he is managing the budget in a fiscally responsible way while also ensuring that across the country people who are facing the pressures of cost of living I get some support. And whether that's done through the redesigned tax cuts, whether it's done through re reforming the hex system or you know,
I mean honestly, Sar. If Michael wants to lead the Liberal Parties charge of talking down lower power prices and a reduction in power prices for Australian families and hard working Australians, then be my guest. It's you should never interrupt your opponents where they're making mistakes.
He told us, it's to give.
By all means, By all means, you should.
You should, you should lead.
The two and seventy five dollars every year. Sure this and you know you didn't, by the way, Jose, who were doing it? You know, Josh, you know full will Our mutual friend Josh Vrodenberg delivered a budget surplus into eight A nineteen, but in those days it wasn't considered a surplus because the eight billion dollars from the Future Fund wasn't included in the budget. It is now. It is now, but if it had been included then he would have delivered on the same rules the seven billion
dollar surplus. So this is all fluff from Jim Charmers, and the chickens are coming home to roost in the next four years. He's leaving us with one hundred and twenty billion dollars of deficits.
Okay, We've got a couple of other issues to get to. Labor. Politician Fatima Payment has broken ranks to accuse Israel of genocide. Directly addressing Anthony out Albanezi, she told the SBS, and I'm quoting here, my conscience has been uneasy for far too long, and I must call this out for what it is. This is a genocide and we need to start pretending otherwise. She also said, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Josh Burns, make of these comments from one of your own colleagues.
Well, Shari, I mean this is this has been a really hard seven months and I personally am finding it really difficult. And one of the things that I think is really important is that we need to be able to agree and disagree respectfully. Clearly, I disagree. This is a situation where the Prime Minister has outlined our position on the River to the Sea chant, and I support the Prime Minister's stance on this. And you know, it's it's it's a hard thing, and I'm not going to
be running sort of commentary on on on Fatima. I like Fatima a lot, She's a friend, and I can see she's hurting.
But you know, I.
Repeated a hate chant there, a hate chant that even the Prime Minister said has no place on our streets.
Yeah, and and and I support the Prime Minister's position on this wholeheartedly. I think that we need to engage respectfully in these debates, and we support a two state solutions. It's really important that we worked towards a two state solution and that that be for a safer, secure Israel and also for one day a viable Palestinian state. And that's why we don't support it.
Yeah, Just very quickly, before I go to Michael Kroger on this, topic. On the weekend, Alban Ezy and Penny Wang supported the vote at the UN to give Palestine Palestine a seat at the table. Do you agree with that position and if you disagree, did you make that clear to them?
I did, and I outlined my position prior to the vote, and also outlined my position following the vote. I issued a statement which is publicly available for everyone to see, where I outlined some key principles, one of which is that there are still hostages in the ground in somewhere in Gaza. There's still over one hundred and thirty hostages who are unaccounted for, who were taken by a terrorist organization.
And I also outlined the fact that in her recent speech, the Foreign Minister outlines really important principles, one of which is being that Hamas can play no future role in the governance of Gaza. The other ones being that Palestinian authority needs to be reformed, and then that reform Palaestinian authority cannot be a threat to the people of Israel. And I, in my view, shari I don't believe those
conditions have been met yet. So I issued that statement and said that an abstention would have been more appropriate because it would have meant that we're open to future positions, but we're not there yet.
Sorry, Michael, was just one last one for Josh.
Josh.
Look, there is a strong sense that Federal Labor has completely abandoned the Jewish community and Israel. You know, are you alone here and speaking publicly or do you have colleagues who are equally disappointed like you are in the positions that Penny Wong and Alban Easy have taken.
Look, Shari, Australia remains a strong friend of Israel, and I'm I'm a customy of that relationship as well as my colleagues, and we've maintained that Israel has a right to defend itself and that following the atrocious attacks on October seven, that Israel, like any other country, has the.
Right to defend any of your content.
I would also yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would also say that, you know, I have been really hot by colleagues who have reached out. I mean, I'm not going to break their trust. And obviously I'm the only one who has spoken out but publicly, and if others wish to do so, that's a matter for them. But certainly colleagues have come to me and expressed their support and I really appreciate that.
Yeah, yeah, Look, it must be very tough having that isolated position. Michael Kroeger, you know, what do you think of what we're seeing tonight at the University of Melbourne where students pro Palestinian protesters have taken over a building.
Well, first of all, can I say to Josh, well done to you on the extremely principled stand you've taken in difficult times. I know it's difficult for you. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows.
I agree, but.
It won't be much good within your party getting praise from me, mate, But standing on principlehing, there's nothing finer in politics than people of courage, and you've showed courage and I congratulate you, and I'm sure I speak for many many Australians.
Well said.
Secondly, Shari, let me just say Let me just say this, Shari, these are not pro Palestinian demonstrations. These are demonstrations of Jewish hatred. Right. All this nonsense about oh, we're opposed to the Israeli government, we're opposed again to Raffa, We're all about the Palestinians. What a lot of hogwash. Why don't they just come out and be honest and say we hate Jews? Right, Why don't the far left racists come out and be honest and say, look, we just
hate Jews. That's why, that's why we're demonstrating. Go back to nineteen seventy, when I was only what thirteen? I never remember reading in the papers any demonstrations. When King Has of Jordan he expelled Arafat and all the Palestinians from Jordan because they were causing too much military strife. He expelled the Palestinians with their demonstrations. Then, no, with their demonstrations twenty three years ago, when Iran and Iraq killed one to two million dollars of each one to
two million of each other's citizens. No, two thousand people killed in Yeerman when Arabs were killing Arabs? No, when isis when al Qaeda was slaughtering other Muslims with their demonstrations. No, when our Sad was gaessing people in Syria, were their demonstrations?
No?
What is unique about this issue? What is unique about this issue that everyone's getting very up so all these young students are getting upset about what is unique that there are Jews involved, be honest, Shari. They should just come out and say we are racists, we hate Jewish people, and be honest, because they're just They're losing support all over the world, these people, amongst the amongst the middle classes. I mean, the people are just observing this Jewish hatred.
You know, the people are getting thinking this is all just, this is all nonsense. Palestinians. They could have stood up for the Palestinians on any number of occasions, these students and their forebears over the last forty to fifty years, as I've demonstrated, we never heard a word from them, right, Arab against Arab, Muslim against Muslim, nothing, nothing, But when the Jews are involved, oh well, you know we have to demonstrate. Come on, be honest, be honest. Get these
people at Melbourne UNI. You put up your signs that we hate Jews, to be honest with everybody for.
Its right, completely right. Michael Kroger, Josh Burns, we're out of time, Josh. I echo Michael Kroger's comments about your courage. Thank you for coming on the show and for standing up for the community despite your government now still to come. More support for Trump as is New York hush money trial rounds up the Australians. Adam Crichton will join me live from Washington next. All right, let's go to the US now, and joining me is The Australian's US correspondent
Adam Crichton. Adam, thank you so much for joining me. Look, Donald Trump's landmark hush money trial. It's heard from his former lawyer Michael Cohen. But according to some polls, this trial isn't turning US, isn't turning off voters.
Yeah, look, I think more broadly, it's not hurting Donald Trump so far. I mean it's been in the news, you basically saturation coverage here for three weeks. But if you look at the political betting markets and the national polls over the past three weeks, Donald Trump has actually inched up slightly, So it's not hurting him yet. But of course the verdict is not out yet, and that actually could come just in a few weeks because the trial itself only has a couple more days to go,
potentially maybe three or four more days. Michael Cohen was the last witness, and that of course is except if Trump himself decides to testify next year. But they could be a guilty verdict. Maybe that will have a big, big impact on Trump, but so far it's not.
Yeah, and next week I think you mean the former president is reportedly ahead in five of the six key swing states. Adam, Let's talk about the US border crisis. You were at the Mexico border just last week. This, of course is one of the key policy battles that is going to change votes ahead.
Of the election. Yes, that's right.
Certainly, it's still the number one political issue in the US for most voters. Of course, there's been all the focus on the Trump trials, but it's still the border, you know, all of those millions of people that have been crossing. It was really interesting to go to Eagle Pass, which has been basically the.
Cold face of the crossings.
I went there for a few days and one of the surprising things we actually two surprising things. Firstly, the numbers have fallen off extremely dramatically, so there's been a big drop and most of the locals aren't actually quite sure why.
So that's part of the mystery.
And secondly, I think the politics of these border chanwns is changing too.
It's becoming a little more republican.
These were Democrats strongholds for a long time, so that is quite significant too.
Look, we're also hearing about this surprise decision where the US House of Reps will buy two nuclear class submarines next year. This was after a budget proposal which only indicated they might buy one. So what does this mean for the Orcus Security Pact.
Well, it's actually quite good news.
I mean, back in February and March, there are quite a few scary headlines that were basically saying the US government wasn't going to buy as much, sorry as many submarines as we first thought, And of course that would have been bad for August because we're meant to get three starting from twenty thirty two. But the Congress is basically pushed back against that and said no, are we going to buy two this year and two next year and two after that.
So basically it's pretty good news for Australia in it.
I mean, there's still a lot more subs that need to be built yet, but we're on a better track now.
Are there still concerns about in the Republican Party not actually supporting not actually the Orcus Agreement as such, but the provision of nuclear submarines to Australia.
Yeah, look, I think that's fair to say, it's true.
I mean, it all depends on who's president in twenty thirty twenty thirty one, because then the president at the time has to say that selling these.
Three subs to Australia will not hurt the US Navy.
And right now the US Navy has fallen massively behind in sub production, so it's really got to pick up the pace.
Yeah, all right, Adam Crichton, thank you so much for joining us live from Washington work. Of course, it's very early in the morning, and we appreciate his time. Look, that's all we've got time for tonight. Thanks so much for your company. I'll see you tomorrow at eight o'clock. But right now, the man of the hour, Paul Murray