Live on Sky News.
This is Shari.
Good evening and welcome to the program.
I'm Danikiti Giorgio filling in tonight for Shari. Coming up on the show, Susan Lee's first day as opposition leader.
Left a lot to be desired.
I'll give you my take, and Senator Dave Shamel will try to change my mind. Is the coalition's commitment to net zero about to be abandoned? David Little Proud dropped a big hint. Frowen Bishop and David Elliott will join me next. And the new look Labor Ministry has us
asking is the misinformation bill coming back? I'll get to that later in the show, but first tonight, I really really want to believe the Liberal Party is ready to take the ball by the horns, regroup after the thumping election loss, and be a clear and strong alternative to Labor.
But honestly, I'm not sure yet.
Susan Lee has been elected leader of the Liberal Party, the first female leader of the Liberal Party, backed in by the Liberal Left, and congratulations to her for being the first female. Yes, it does carry weight now, personally, I don't care about the gender of an individual in a high profile role as long as they can do the job, and that they've gotten.
There through merit.
Now, she's a mother, a grandmother, a very smart woman. She's been a commercial pilot, a farmer, an air traffic controller, amongst other things, and of course was recently the deputy Opposition leader. And perhaps she can portray a softer side than what the party was able to do with Peter Dutton. But the question now is, and this is key, is she the person to lift the party out of one
of its biggest crises? And I'm not yet convinced. And now is the time for a quick reset, especially as we face another three years of labor, a party which has already left us broke backwards, divided in a trillion dollars of debt, more exposed than ever on the defense front, with a broken renewable system, and in the lurch for the future. And I want to give Susan Lee the benefit of the doubt, give her a go, I really do, and I hope for the sake of the party that
she is going to take it forward. But if Susan Lee cannot put up a genuine alternative policy to labor, and I'll read today we didn't really get a lot of certainty on that, albeit it is early days obviously, then it's goodbye. The Liberals will be in the wilderness for years and I will have more on policy in a moment.
But here she was today pledging that she is up for the job.
We listened to the Australian people on Saturday and we will continue to listen to them around the country. We have to have a Liberal party that respects modern Australia, that reflects modern Australia, and that represents modern Australia. And we have to meet the people where they are. And that's what I am committed to doing. Are what I'm determined to do. I want to do things differently and we have to have a fresh approach.
And a fresh approach is absolutely needed. But this was not a resounding victory for Susan Lee. She was voted in twenty nine to twenty five to Shadow treasurer Angus Taylor. Now, if you take away the votes of Linda Reynolds, Holly Hughes and Richard Colbeck who were leaving because of the Senate and all who voted for her, or realistically it leaves her with twenty six votes, it's almost a tie.
It's not a convincing win.
So the question is is she keeping the seat warm for a few years only to be rolled at the eleventh hour ahead of the next election.
It is hardly a case for unification. Now.
Secondly, she spoke there about Liberal party values, but what does that mean because we've got a moderate opposition leader in Susan Lee and a moderate deputy in Ted O'Brien. So not only do the Liberals abandon their conservative base through their labor light policies and position changes at the election, they now have voted in two moderates, yet hope to reclaim their base and hope for this fresh approach.
And call me cynical, but.
This is unconvincing to me and hardly inspiring. And yes, of course it comes down to policies. Yes, it comes down to having an alternative.
But already I fear.
This new Liberal Party is off to a shaky start. First on nuclear policy, here was Susan Lee and.
Having federal government own nuclear power stations?
Is that going to be your position? Do you think going forward?
We'll just hear in this party room. Only a couple of hours ago I committed to my colleagues that there would be no captain's calls from anywhere by me, and I also committed during the discussions I had with them this week that we would work through every single policy issue, we would canvass the different views and we would take the time to get it right.
Now, of course, it had only been hours since she was voted in. But compare this to National's leader David Little Proud yesterday.
We've had the courage on nucleanergy, something our party room has believed in for a very long time, and all renewables approach won't work. But it was our party room, from many people before us, that had the courage to come forward.
But it was us. It was our party room that delivered it.
The two very contrasting answers, and the point is if he's not making captain calls, then the Liberal left may triumph, and that is a worry if serious and hard decisions are not made by its leader.
Take this for example, this is.
A policy that went to an election. The election result was devastating, so the message from the community is very very clear, and that's why I believe that this nuclear policy has to go unbelievable.
And if that's the case, the Liberals would have learnt nothing because we need nuclear energy to shore up supply in this country.
It is the only.
Option and nuclear was a key point of difference you remember for the coalition before it ran away from.
It In the dying weeks of the campaign.
Why didn't you go to the site to marked for a nuclear reactor? Why didn't you get eighty by your side at press conferences every week and try and sell this policy.
I got the feeling you dropped it like a hot potato.
It's not been a huge issue at this election cap either four against. I think people have prioritized other issues and that's probably where the campaigns concentrate.
Now.
If you're not going to go bold, you won't win elections, and that should be the lesson from this election. We know nuclear is a proven energy resource in powerhouses like the US and UK, and if we want to keep the lights on nuclear is it now secondly on net zero by twenty fifty.
There are different views about how we appropriately reduce emissions. Now. We need to reduce emissions in this country and Australia needs to play its part in reducing emissions.
But the problem is this again may put the party at odds with the nationals, as David Little Proud has put ditching that target on the table.
You cannot run an economy of the industrial scale the size of Australia on an llor renewables approach.
Just look at Spain and Portugal.
The reality is is even Anthony Albanezi is saying your energy bill is going to go up, not down. And so what we'll do is calmly and methodically work through our policy settings and what that means to make sure that we have a position that addresses the cost of living crisis.
Because energy is the economy now.
If the Liberals want to win back the base, ditch net zero by twenty fifty because the world's biggest emitters, including the US and China, are moving away from this target and are in favor of nuclear. This renewables fantasy, we know is a disaster in this country. It is plunging us further into the darkness during heat waves and cold snaps, all the while coal is being driven out of the system. The Paris Agreement is a joke. It's a waste of our time.
We have to keep moving forward with keeping the lights on in this country now.
Our third policy point is on female representation in the Liberal Party three years ago, it was the same old tysome narrative that the election loss.
Was due to a lack of women.
Three years later, there are calls again for gender quotas. Look what an absolute diabolical insult in my view, to have women in Parliament because of their gender, not on merit, not because they're the best person for the job, not because they've earned it, but because of their gender. And this is not why the Liberal Party lost the election. It is true that earlier this year women strongly favored the Coalition, but by the end of April that had
blown up. If you look there, the Coalition's lead among female voters reversed from fifty one to forty nine in January to forty six to fifty four in favor of Labor. That was a week out from the poll. But this was largely due to its work from home policy, and Susan Lee wasn't shying away from the possibility of quotas when asked today.
I want to say, right here and now, we need more women in our party. We need more women in our party organization, We need more women in this party room. Had we done better at the last election, we would have standing women in this party room. Deputy opposed to quotas and targets women.
I support what the leaders just said.
A came moving alone.
Look, she's not wrong about more female representation, but still there was no definitive answer there. And it's not about more female representation or moving to the center, because the more you raise this gender card, the more you stray away from those conservative values, and goodness me, you may as well be the Labor Party. Then with quotas, it's about a strong, cohesive policy platform reflecting those values and
also policy which reflects women. Now, the other point I would make here is on just sent to nampajimp Price. She pulled out of the deputy leadership role after it became apparent Angus Taylor was not going to win, and I really hope her defection from the Nationals has not been a waste of time because politics is tough, it is so brutal, and this is a woman who, in my view, is a born leader and one of the
only voices of common sense. She single handedly helped get that no vote in the Voice to Parliament referendum over the line.
She clearly loves this country, does not.
Seek to divide us by the color of our skin, and she really sticks to her values, and it would be of detriment to the party in this reboot phase not to give Senator Price a key role in the shadow cabinet and make her front and center, not hidden like.
She was during the election campaign.
And I really hope, for the sake of moving this party forward and for the sake of actually having any chances of winning elections, that this is indeed a winning ticket of Susan Lee and Ted O'Brien. But the Opposition lost the election because they went Labor light. And look at the contrast now. The Labor Cabinet met today to
take their group photo. They're all smiles but unified, and the Liberals, fresh from a leadership ballot, are now desperately trying to rebuild after their election loss with a leader
who just scraped over the line. They have no clear policies yet and are largely becoming at odds with their coalition partners, the Nationals and the Nats are basically propping up the coalition right now because they're not the ones who've lost a lot of seats, and this is an opposition which would want to shape up pretty quick if they want to have any chance of beating the Labor Party, Susan Lee faces a massive challenge, but the question is will she go bold or will the Liberals face years
in the wilderness.
Well for more on that.
Joining me now is former Speaker of the House Bromin Bishop and forming New South Wales Police Minister David Elliott Hight To both of you, thank you so much for joining me on the show this evening. Bron We'll start with you. Is Susan Lee the right choice for the party? How do you feel about the appointment?
I think it is quite an achievement for the Liberal Party to have a woman leader, and as someone who's been the first in many positions in my political life, I congratulate Susan one hundred percent on achieving that she now has a great opportunity. Now there's were all sorts of criticism being thrown her, but she's had it before
and she's been able to stand up to it. She's been on the hustings, and when you've been on the hustings and you've been in the small groups as well as the large groups, you learn a lot about what you've got to do to put policy that appeals to those people together. So I think people have got to give her a go. And as I've said before, I sat for twenty years in the Parliament with that Anthony Alvern easy and nobody but nobody ever said he was a leader. And yet now he's won ninety two seats.
So politics is a very fickle game. It can surprise you, it can something can arise up and things change and you have to be prepared to do it. And I think she's got to be given a go. And I think for the Level Party to have a female leader is a recognition that women in the Liberal Party can get there without quotas one hundred.
You know this quotea's nonsense, really really bothers me. I think it's actually offensive, to be honest, at I find it now. I find it highly highly offensive. David I asked the question there in Madatorial. Is Susan Lee the one that can pull this Liberal Party out of one of its biggest crises?
Yes or no?
Yes she is, And I'll tell you what she has got the experience. She's been there for twenty years. She's more than twenty years. She has proven herself as a loyal deputy. And your colleagues look at you and your commitment to loyalty in sub leadership roles before they decide to put you in leadership role. So she's proven, she's proven that, unlike Anthony Abernezi, she's had real jobs. She had a significant career before she entered parliament, so she
can draw on real world experiences. Setting her gender aside. I think she has got a very appealing approach to people. I think she's articulate. What she does need she needs right now is a head kicker. And I don't think Tedday Brown as the head kicker. I think we've really stuffed up with him as a deputy leader. But she will rely on people like Andrew Hasty, She'll rely on people like just Senter Price.
She'll rely on.
People, certainly the Victorian Liberals to make sure that we don't lose our standing with the urban vote, because it's that Victorian vote that needs to now be moved to Western Sydney so we can pick up similar seats and demographics in Western Sydney.
What do you think of Tett O'Brien's appointment from Well.
I think he's showed himself in that debate that he had with Bowen to be right on top of Boone.
Oh, definitely think.
I think everyone gave him a great, big chair. So he's now going to have the opportunity to define further the policy he took. And one option they can go is and it's something that I thought was perhaps the way they should have gone earlier, is say, we will remove the innig reality of uranium. We will make it legal to build you your reactors and to have nuclear power and let the market see if they're going to build it and invest in it. Yeah, and I suggest that probably will well.
Hope, you'd hope so, you'd really hope so.
And that's why they need some clear, definitive policies urgent.
But what was so killing for Peter Dutton was he didn't fight back on that six hundred billion dollar figure. It was a lie, it was, but it wasn't refuted. You've got to refute things again and again and again and again.
It was like Medicare. It was like the Medicare.
You know, Albo was out there every day with that Medicare cand It was the same thing.
I could have heard of.
Yeah, no, look, I completely a.
Great let's move on because I talked about the Just Center napagym for price debarcle.
There.
Obviously, she pulled out of the race for opposition deputy.
Now she explained that decision a little earlier on the Kenny Report.
This is what she said.
I declared that I was running on a leadership ticket with Angus Taylor, and I had made my mind up prior too that if Angus was unsuccessful that I would allow on you that Ted wanted to run for the deputy leadership, that I wouldn't contest that and withdraw from that point onward.
But she also dropped this line which I'm sure got conservatives quite excited.
And to big Prime Minister, of course she need to go to the Lower House.
Well, there is that, you know, and I know there's a lot of Australians who'd love to see that. But right now, as I said, you know, my focus is the Senate.
I mean, it sounded to me, David like there's still some leadership ambition.
In her, there's still some fights. But what do you make of that?
Well, I don't think this lady's for turning. I think we just seeing here is certainly somebody that is going to pursue a political career. I think that she should be brought down into the Lower House. She can prosecute a debate. We saw that in the Voice and anybody who thinks that you know, the election result has turned. This shown that the Australian electorate has gone left of center, has forgot about the voice response in the electorate. And she's one of the reasons why we got that. We
got that look, so we've got that result. So I think we've just center. She needs to be harnessed, she needs to be mentored, she needs to be given an opportunity to go out and forge her own brand in the electorate, because I can tell you she's a vote winner for us, She's a vote winner for the Liberal Party.
And I think that the more Susan Leigh stands next to the center price and people like Melinda McIntosh, Melissa McIntosh, the more we're going to be able to attract those votes that have got to come back.
Do you agree, Brolin, that she could still be a star power within Absolutely?
Absolutely, And all this business about being elected on a national party ticket, it's just not true. She is a member of the Country Liberal Party and traditionally when we had a senator and member for Solomon, one would sit in each House, in each party group. Now that we're down to just having a senator, we don't have a lower House seat in the Northern Territory. Well, she's free to choose where she sits.
Yeah, so you still think, though, but do you think she should have a real prominent role now she should?
Yeah. I hope that Susan Lee gives her I really really do hope.
So I won't to talk about dumping net zero by twenty fifty. It was mentioned today at the press conference. Now it's clear that the Nationals are looking to drop that target. Other big power houses around the world are not even thinking about that target anymore.
But where does this leave the coalition? More broadly, if you've got two possibly opposing narratives here, how do you see this playing out?
Well, targets that far out are just a complete waste of time because nobody is going to be held accountable for the lack of meeting it, and quite frankly, nobody
believes it. I mean, the Liberal Party needs to highlight the fact that we are we believe as conservatives that we should be good custodians of the earth, and there being good custodians of the earth means we're we're committed to bringing down levels of pollution, bringing down liberals of carbon emission, replacing them with clean energy without destroying our economy.
And that's the that's the debate that we always have in Western Sydney seats conservative in the Western Sydney seats, in the north west of Sydney, we have the highest number of families having solar panels on their roofs than per capita, than anywhere else. That's that is a liberal voting area and they have all the highest number. Now what is that to you? It means that when that worked out that renewable energy is cheaper than what is what in the conventional energy, they'll move to it. But
they're not going to be lectured to. They're certainly not going to be told you have to have their energy policy linked to things like the voice and linked to things like gender equality and linked to things that got nothing to do with the economy of energy. And that's what's happened. That's why the Greens lost. They forgot that they were there to be environmentalists and they started being They started presenting themselves as the thought police.
So they were running all these air campaigns they were going completely alarmists. They were just going into a completely different direction. Now they're so irrelevant in this political clime.
And trying to argue in the same sentence, we've got to have renewables, but by the way, we've got a free Palestine. Oh, just confuses people.
You know, it's ridiculous.
Well, look, I don't think the Greens are worth discussing. They're still a vile party, yeah, truly vile. And their voters dropped and as I've said before, these minor parties usually last about twenty five to thirty years, whether it's the DLP, whether it was the Democrats. Well the Greens picked up what was left of the Democrats and put it into their vote. Something else will happen. But they're on the decline.
Yeah, and just want to get your opinion there on net zero by twenty.
Fifteen, I'm a little proud. Was pretty cold.
It sounds like that.
That's a confident that they don't want this.
Listen, we should never have signed up in the first place. I mean, there are many things the many things I can say about Scott Morrison. That was the worst thing you ever did. It took away all the advantage we had in giving a sensible energy policy to the country. So sooner we're out of it, the better. As far as I'm concerned, I can see that seventy percent of the world is not in it. Yeah, point Russia, China, the United States, all his big economies nothing to do
with it. And it's twenty fifty. I mean, what's going to happening with.
The coalition on this from You think it's all chatter. You don't think that there will be a split down the middle.
Look, there is always a discussion about whether or not the National Party wants to go on its own for a bit after there's been a loss. It's happened every now and again. But they come back together again because they were fundamentally part of the first Compact. When Mensis formed the Liberal Party. The National Party didn't want to give up its own identity and join in. But the coalition was forged and has been going for eighty year.
Is so no change, no change, no change? Fair enough.
Now, Look it's not just the Coalition who has a new face, but Labor as well, which has undergone a ministerial shake up. But most prominently Anthony I Abneasy dumped ed Husick and Mark Dreyfus and the PM didn't have a lot to say about it.
Have a listen.
Mark or either Mark Dreyfus saw it Husick to say in the ministry and if not, why not.
Look, we have a process in the Labor Party caucus.
You've been watching it for some time.
What do you think, David on the flicking of both Dreyfus and Ed Husick Houston, he was very angry about it over the week.
How I thought it was winging personally?
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not very smart to have a crack at your boss when you've just been demoted, because it makes it very hard for them to promote
you again. But I mean, if I've ever had to have some self reflection about why I joined the Liberal Party over the Labor Party, what happened in the last seventy two hours is a classic example of why I did that, because they are not a meritocracy, and they both they celebrate the fact that they had to go to the factions and the factions had to divvy up the job, and as a result, Ed Husick.
Got the sack.
Now, I didn't think Ed was a bad MP. I don't think he was a bad minister. I think he pursued like Drapust. They were both important because of the demographics they represented as well, and you know, they could have played a very very important role in positioning Australia when it comes to Middle Eastern politics for a start. So I mean, obviously Drapus has been there for a very very long time, so maybe it was a little bit of a little bit of tenure there that saw
him leave. But I think I think ed Husick being dumped for no other reason. It's because they had somebody else that they needed to pay off. That's that's bad politics.
Well, I was interesting as well.
Tanya Plipasek has been demoted well again, I mean now she's Social Services Minister. Look as Environment Minister bro when she made that dreadful decision about the blaming mere.
Yeah.
But I want to say something about Dreyfus Music Rayfus is useless. He's the man who gave two million dollars to Michigan on a twenty twenty four hour turnaround. He's got a lot to answer for and he didn't come out being vocal on issues when I think he should have been.
That was my view.
So and when I used to throw him out when I was speaker. Nobody cared. No one on the Labor Party cared with regard to mister Hughsack. I've never seen such a winder in my life. He joined a collectivist party. Collectivist rules means that collective rules and individuals can be sacrificed to the collective. He was perfectly happy for that to be when he got promoted. Now he's going around winching.
He was a minister of no particular outstanding virtue. I can't think of the thing he did that is notable, can you?
No?
Are you not the one thing to be?
You know, he was there, and I think the reason he was sacked he was sacked because somebody else had more ambition.
And that's bad.
Well, no, it's not. I mean people are sacked and people more ambition going all the time, David, you know that. But when it's a principle of the Collectivist.
Party, that's right, that's exactly right.
The left wing is now dominant in this party, and that's a real worry for us, a real woe for us. Albanezi has control of the National Executive, which he chairs. He blindly says, oh preference has nothing to do with me, when it's everything to do with him. But we know
he's a liar in the lodge. He hasn't changed, nothing's changed, and when we look at the way in which the policies that we're likely to have to deal with aregain to come our way, it is very damaging and worrying for Australa and that's where we ought to be putting our attention, like the tax on unrealized capital gains, which should have been front and center of the opposition campaign during the election.
This is why the coalition they got to get themselves together pretty quickly because it's another three years of Anthony Arbereze, as you said, the liar in the lodge, So the change nothing, nothing has changed, unfortunately. David Elliot, Browl and Bishop. Good to have you both on. Thank you so much for joining me on the show this evening. Well for more now on leadership reaction from inside the coalition itself. I'm now joined by Senator Dave Sharma. Senator, it's good
to catch up with you. Thanks so much for joining me. Well, you're happy with today's outcome. Is Susanly the right choice for the party.
I think she's an excellent choice. She's got vast experience to sell a number of portfolios, has a.
Huge amount of life experience.
She knows the country well, she knows a members well, She's traveled extensively. She's got a strong intellect, she's got an intellectual curiosity, and she's very keen to united us to make us a disciplined, competitive force that is a credible opposition and a strong alternative government.
Will she stay there for the whole three years? Yes, she will, and you're confident of that.
I am confident of that. Look, I think you know, leadership balanced by their nature, you know their device, because people choose to back a different side. But I'm quite confident in all my conversations with my colleagues that the thing that we can agree most firmly on is we need to be you know, we need to be a stronger alternative to the labor government, and we need to have a more competitive offering to these shoining people next
time around. And I think you know now that this the leadership has been decided, we will all get behind our new leaders sousainly, and I know she will do her up most to harness the talents of everyone in the party room to make sure that we are that competitive political force.
But what does that competitive political force look like in your view? Is it bold policies?
How are you going to get to that point where you go, yes, we have a team that actually has genuine chances of re election.
Well, look, I don't have all the answers this evening, but it starts with acknowledging that the comprehensiveness of our loss and where we performed were just you know, both geographically and demographically. And why the messages and policies where we're putting forward we're not resonating with the Australian public. I mean, you know, traditionally, since MEN'SI has founded made a point of representing the forgotten people. We've had habits Batlands,
we've had Scott Morrison's quiet Australians. You know, these are the people who live in the suburbs of our cities, who have a mortgage, who often have both partners at work, who have young children, who have been struggling with the cost of living, have been struggling with high energy prices, you know, who struggle with traffic on the roads, who struggle with the concept of their children being able to
afford at home those that are sorts of voters. We need to be addressing their real life concerns and priorities, and I think, you know, we need to improve our policy offering to do that. That's going to take some time. I don't pretend that'll all be unveiled in the next week or two. We need to do some pretty deep reflection, review and internal discussion and consolidation. But I'm confident we can do it.
One of those policies is, of course, on energy. It's a big one. Will you stick with nuclear?
Well, if that's sort of a decision for men, As Susan said this morning, this morning or this afternoon just after the leadership, it's normal after a loss like this to review all of.
Your policies, and I expect we'll be doing all that.
I mean, what we will want to be putting forward is a credible alternative energy policies to label that will help make electricity affordable again, and power affordable, make sure our manufacturers who rely on energy as and input can be internationally competitive and that brings down emissions over time. But in a way that is working with the grain of technology and what is available and what's commercially competitive.
I want to answer your Senate colleague. James McGraw wrote to Liberal members today saying that what the Liberal Party needs to focus on is it moving left, is it moving right? It's about how it does politics. How does it need to change how it does politics? In your view, I'm curious to get your answer.
Well, I thought James made a thoughtful contribution, and I think it's too often these election post mortems can find themselves on one dimension only, which is where you position ideologically. I think our challenge is really to modernize, and that means staying true to our principles, saying true to our values, but making sure they are translated into policies that are important to their lives and priorities and pressure points at everyday Australians, and to make sure that we're a discipline
and effective campaign fighting machine. I mean, James has a lot of experience in our partying machinery and the functioning of our state divisions, and I think it's clear that the competitiveness of how we run campaigns has diminished over the last few cycles, and we need to have a better organizational performance, and that's internal.
Change and internal review.
But that's a key part of being a successful political pay.
Yeah. Absolutely, well, look the road's long ahead, but look fingers crossed.
Dave Sharma, good to see you. Thanks very much for joining me on the show. This evening, well still to come. Does a liberal party need female quotas if it wants to be re elected?
We'll have a fascinating debate coming up.
But first, another agency warns our Triple A credit rating is at risk. Former Treasury Secretary David Pearl joins me to discuss what reckless labor spending may cost us.
Welcome back to the program. To some business news.
Now, the markets are cheering after the US and China agreed to wind back. There were talitory tariffs for at least ninety days. Donald Trump has also scaled back his comments on Beijing.
European Union is in many ways nastier than China.
Okay, joining me now to discuss this is Former Treasury Assistant Secretary David Pearl, David, good to see Thank you for joining me.
Is a trade war really winding down? What's your take on it?
Thanks for having me on. It's a pretty significant development. If we just go back a couple of months, we had Donald Trump announcing his Liberation Day tariffs against China and the rest of the world, and he's now completely climbed down from that. I think the agreement with the Chinese was it inevitable because leaving aside Donald Trump's retric about trade balances, the US and China are mutually dependent
on each other. And to the extent that this agreement has forestalled and the possibility of a breakdown, it's.
Fantastic news for Australia.
That said, the uncertainty that we've seen will continue because Trump's approach to trade is messy and bordering on chaotic. I'm hoping that Trump, being a pragmatist, is stepping back from his protectionism and he'll focus from now on the more constructive, economically sensible parts of his program, tax reductions for American companies and individuals and also energy deregulation, and leaves protectionism, which is just corporate welfare to one side.
Yeah, I mean that's a good point.
So they've got this ninety day pause, though, is it at all going to have an impact on our economy here?
If there was a disorderly decoupling between the US and China, it would have made poor Keating's Banana a public moment in the nineteen eighties.
A walk in the park.
It would have been an existential event for Australia. The fact that that is now unlikely is positive news for this country. But as I said before, if you're renegotiating the terms of global international trade, it's going to be messy and uncertain for quite some time. But if the US and China can re establish their trade and financial relationships, that gives a solid baseline, if you like, for the Australian economy.
Yeah, okay, we'll be watching that one with a lot of interest.
Now, look, labor has excessively spent over the last three years and it's now been calling to question with a second credit rating agency warning that our triple A credit rating could actually be on the line. Fitch Rating Sovereigns director Jeremy told Business Now it could actually be in jebety in the medium term.
This is what he said.
When we think about Australia's public finances, Australia compared to its Triple A peers.
Is somewhat towards the weaker.
And when we look at the level of the physical deficit, which we think about a general government deficit level including state and federal governments, that's running close to three percent this year, and the triple A median is more around one percent deficit level.
David, look that there have been so many cash splashes by labor. This election plus the last three years, as I said, has seen record government spending. It's been out of control. How much of an impact is this having.
It's certainly having an impact.
It's attracted the attention of the credit ratings agencies, But the credit ratings agencies and their individual ratings for economies are quite superficial.
If Fitch and.
Moody's opened up the books and looked more closely, they'd see that we have three fiscal time bombs. One our addiction to entitlement spending including the ndis, which our official forecasts assume will grow at only eight percent of year instead of fourteen percent. We also assume a further decade of bracket creep paid by a shrinking proportion of the working age population. We assume no further increase in defense spending, and our national productivity performance to be far better than
it has been in the last decade. So if you actually unpack each of those assumptions, our medium term fiscal outlook is very poor and triple A rating is actually a positive gloss.
Yeah, look it's not good news, but look I think hardly surprising given the cash splashes. I mean not just federally, but we also saw it in state budget. It was completely out of control. Before we let you go, David, I want to get your thoughts on Susan Lee becoming opposition leader. I mean, this could be in deed a
time for renewal for the party. But what do they need to focus on, and especially by way of economic policy, because I mean the economy's meant to be a key platform for the Conservatives.
We haven't seen it in recent years. But what do they need to do, do you think?
Well, firstly, tear up Peter Dutton's economic playbook from the last election, which would have raised income taxes, matched labor's cash splash dollar for dollar, and done nothing about our addiction to spending.
So put that one to side. That to one side.
I just emphasized three points for the new leadership team. One, don't forget that tax is the natural territory for liberal or conservative political movements. Not only does it make sense economically, we shouldn't forget that both the Whole Keeping and the Howard government placed tax form and in particular the reduction of high income tax burdens, at the center of their growth agendas. So let's not forget that. I think the opposition to do that. But tax is also a political issue.
Every Australian or most Australians pay tax. Very few Australians think they should pay more. Yet if we have a decade of bracket creep, the average tax rate paid by Australians will rise by fifteen percent. So I think the opposition should say bracket creep will not be tolerated anymore, just as we don't tolerate not indexing pensions. It's a moral issue, not just an economic issue.
The other point I'd make is fairness.
Labour's definition of fairness is let's allocate favors and subsidies to identity groups based on some assumed moral superiority. The liberals should emphasize a quality of opportunity in meritocracy. Not only are they liberal and good conservative values, they are Australian values, and I think they've lost sight of that. And that's a very clear way to differentiate themselves from their opponents.
Yeah.
I think that's a really fair point. It's going to be an interesting three years ahead. David Pearl, nice to see, Thanks so much for joining me this evening. Well don't go anywhere. Is the Misinformation Bill coming back? I'll talk to John Story from the Institute of Public Affairs about what Michelle.
Rowland's promotion means.
First, the incredible reunion of the last American hostage held by Hamas with his family. Christy McSweeney and Lisa Goddard are coming up after the break.
Welcome back.
Let's jump straight back into it with my panel, PR Council Managing Director Christy McSweeney and a Dooni medias. Lisa Goddard, Hi to both of you. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Look, we need to start with the Coalition's leadership results. Of course, Susan Lee elected Liberal leader today.
Christy will start with you.
What's your reaction. Is she the right choice to lead the party? I think she's a sensible choice. I think it's a centrist choice. I think it is very symbolic that the Coalition has elected its first female leader. Is it a bit of a glass cliff situation?
Look?
Probably, But I don't know if you've been into the Liberal party room and you are confronted with a photo wall of men, and it will be great that the coalition can finally have a woman on that wall. And of course it has been the case at a state level. We've had leaders and Senate leaders as well, and it's been amazing. So it's not a be all and end all, but that is one good point in terms of is
it a unifying decision. We'll have to wait and see how long the factions give her before that starts, but I think she did very well today in the press conference.
I was quite impressed. We'll see, We'll certainly see, Lisa, what's your take on it. Look, I think she has work to do.
She's been in Parliament now for more than twenty years and I did a strawman pole around the office today and some people down in the foyer they didn't know who she was. And the other big point was they didn't know how to pronounce her last name. So looking at someone who look, I think it's great that they've put a woman in that position. I don't like the fact that every headline is screaming it's the first female because I do think it comes down to merit. But look,
she's there. I think what we need to judge her on is not her gender, but what she can actually do about. As Christy said, unifying the party and having some really tough conversations about what policy are they going to come forward with, because today there were no real answers on that.
Yeah, and that's exactly what I said as well in my editorial. There were no clear answers. And I agree. You know, Lisa, I don't care what the gender of a person is in that high level position.
I don't care as long as they can do the job, and as long as they got there through merit, I couldn't care less whether they're male or female.
I totally agree.
Now, look, let's talk about gender quotas, because Christy, you had an interesting article in the AFI yesterday you said, to win them, I suggest we embrace women who could win us those seats and understand that we need to help them gain the experience and the networks in the party to be visible, recognized and chosen. If that means given them a man and dated female position to win an election, so be it. Christy, are you advocating for
gender quotas? Do you think that that is the way forward for the Liberal Party and why?
Well, one, I think it's time something happened. I have sat in pre selections for over twenty five years. The only women who get pre selected are ones that have the time to lean in to undertake all the impossible tasks that gets you to the front of the queue where you can tick off the list of and it's going to state counsel an admin committee all day on a Saturday, it's going to three meetings a week, it's
going to various other things. There is a reality that women raising children and holding down a career aren't able to do those things. So the women that get pre selected, and I'm not saying women don't, are women that are able to undertake those tasks that allow them to be visible and then considered worthy enough for people who make
this selection because they have completed that checklist. There is just a reality that the women that we want to represent, us women of working age, who are rising families like the Labor Party, are not able to get through in that selection structure. It's not about merit, it's about addressing that selection.
It is about structure.
I'm recognizing recognizing that it isn't the right one.
Merit is a wonderful blanket argument to have.
I think it's you have to understand that, understand the new wants of the selection structure, that the fact is women in our party aren't working and raising families like.
They are in the Labor Party. I take a point we have to look at that.
Understand why I take your point on that, Christie, But as a woman, I find it highly offensive that a woman should get a role not based on a merit, not based on how good she is, not based on how hard she's worked, but the fact that she is a woman.
I just find that so offensive in this day and age. And if that's the case.
If that's not, that's choose people. If that's how you may as well don't choose people.
Yeah. Sorry, I just want to move on because we don't have a lot of time.
And I do take your point, Christy, and I get what you're saying, But Lisa, what are your thoughts on this?
Christy is absolutely right when you sit in those branch meetings, it is about winning people over it and our goodness knows how many five dollars raffle tickets you have to buy while you attend those branches. Christy will tell you about that. But look, there are two things here. One it has to be on merit. You have to rise to the top based on your experience, based on your knowledge, based on the fact that you understand your community and that you can give something back to your community and
actually changes country for the best. However, when it comes to pre selection, when it comes to looking at what candidate are you going to put forward A and you did a study, predominantly those women get the tough seats. We don't always get the winnable easy seats. You put into a position where it's going to be a tough fight. You're looking at having to ether, put your business on hold, stand down from your job, so financially, how do you
then manage your life. I have to put yourself forward for pre selection and then go out there in campaign. So it is a really tough one you have to balance. Yes, we want the best candidates on merit.
Fullies back that.
However, they need to look at the party structure and think about how do we pre select women who are good on merit and put them into seats.
That are winnable.
If we truly want women in the Parliament and the greater numbers. It's not about quotas, it's about putting them into the seats.
That are winnable.
I agree, and it all does come down to selection. I do agree with that, and I think that there will be a real rethink come the next election. And there were a lot of really good female candidates out there. I don't think that they were given the opportunity to really shine throughout this campaign, and that is the sad part.
But we'll see what happens. We have run out of time.
Christy mcsweety and Lisa God we love a good debate. I like having you both on. Thank you very much for joing to be on the show.
We do, we do.
We absolutely that we do get along. Really stay with us. Still to come.
We thought the Misinformation Bill was dead, but its strongest advocate is now the Attorney General. Is the fight for free speech back on? We'll find out next Welcome back. Well, we've rightly been focused on Labour's factional war over the new ministerial roles, but one controversial appointment needs more focus and that's Michelle Roland talking taking on the role of
Attorney General from Mark Dreyfus. Now you recall this is the same person that was Labour's face for the Misinformation Bill, and we know how fired up Labor is about.
Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation, the misinformation, the misinformation which is there so misinformation?
Yes?
So do we really think one attempt to get it through Parliament is the end of it?
I don't, especially with then you found majority in the lower House and the Greens, who of course supported the bill, hold the.
Balance of power in the Senate.
Joining me now is John's story from the Institute of Public Affairs, an organization that did so much to highlight the dangers of that bill when Labour tried to pass it. Welcome to the show, Thanks for joining me. How conconed are you that it could be making a comeback?
I think a lot of people are concerned that the thumping electoral victory that Labor had a week and a half ago will enable them to push forward a far more radical agenda than they did in.
Their first term.
And there's no doubt that if Labor could, they would implement far more radical internet censorship laws than Australia currently has. Now there's every sign now that they have that large majority, they will do that. What are those signs? Well, the first one was Labor never repudiated the misinformation and disinformation built when it failed to pass the Senate last year.
Michelle rowl and the Communications Minister at the time, said how important it was to protect democracy from misinformation and disinformation and that they are a threat to national security. However, we don't have the numbers in the Senate. That's hardly a repudiation. That's hardly saying look, we've listened to the concerns about free speech and we're ditching this policy. It suggests if we get another chance or do it again. The other sign is the promotion of Michelle Rowland to
Attorney General. Her signature policy as Communications Minister was the failed attempt to introduce misinformation laws, and for that failure she's been promoted. So these are all signs that need to be put to the Prime Minister. Do you intend to introduce these laws into Parliament again?
I completely agree. Look, I think it is a real worry overall.
What sort of free speech battles do you see now on the horizon we spoke about misinformation, Labor has been dipping into this issue. How do you see this playing out.
Well, we've got some important court cases at the moment dealing with the powers of the E Safety Commissioner. One thing I think Anthony Albanezi may have learned from his first term where he's election night he said, oh, we're going to introduce this voice, and it was this radical propos I think he might be a little more subtle this time. It may be that they don't introduce a misinformation bill by just reintroducing the old bill. What it could be is that enhancing the powers of the E
Safety Commissioner to effectively give her powers over misinformation. There's currently a review of the Online Safety Act, and some of the proposals in that review sound awfully like what was proposed under the Misinformation Bill.
Yeah, it's almost by stealth, I would say, John Story, good to catch up. Thank you so much for joining me on the show this evening. And that's all we've got time for this evening.
Thank you for your time, Sharry Marks, and we'll be back on deck tomorrow. Stay tuned. Paul Murray is next