Sharri | 10 April

Live on Sky News.

This is Sharry Good Evening Tonight, Peter Dutton calls Albanezi a liar as yet another minister declines to apologize for the two hundred and seventy five dollar energy bill. Broken promise, we'll get stuck in in a moment and breaking news tonight, a formal apology over a Brisbane mother's delivery of a stranger's baby in a major IVF bungle. Those details coming up. Plus we'll get the inside story behind Donald Trump's tariff reversal.

That's with Adam Crichton shortly.

And we'll hear the coalition plan to reverse the tariffs if they win office. I'll speak with Shadow Trade Minister Kevin Hogan, but first tonight, Peter Dutton has accused the Albanese government of lying, a downing accusation that comes as ministers refuse to apologize for promising power bills would be two hundred and seventy five dollars less and ag you minace that. Chris Bowen today was the latest who refused

Chris Bowen. In December twenty twenty one, you commissioned modeling which showed and you pledged that you would drop power prices by now by two hundred and seventy five dollars for residential homes. You committed to it again in April twenty twenty two, when you were told that modeling was flawed. You continued to commit to it. In twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, even though electricity prices were rising. You continued to be committed to it when you started

An excellent question from Chris Hillman, but of course Chris Bowen refused to admit the obvious fact that power prices are rising.

You've got strongers about these matters, which you express on Sky News in the Evenings, and that's your right. I disagree with the way that you look at these matters. I disagree with the approach that you take. It's disingenuous and dishonest of you to blame all this so renewable energy as you do on Sky in the Evenings. It's just not right, sir, It's just not fair.

Accuses the journalist Chris Hilman of being disingenuous. But isn't he being disingenuous when he indicates that any price rises are because of global factors, not because he's deliberately repositioned the energy market and rushed the transition to rely on more renewables.

And have less cheap, reliable energy.

And what about the way he has to say on Sky in the Evenings is which.

You express on Sky News in the Evenings, and that's your right, as you do on Sky in the evenings. It's just not right, sir, which you express on Sky.

Your premise.

As if it's a criticism to be on Sky News. Orman as a former ABC and nine political editor, and he didn't let Chris Bowen get away with slurs instead of actually answering the question.

Have electricity prices risen on your watch? The exact opposite of what you pledged?

Have that we have denied. We have never denied that energy prices are higher than we would like. That's why we've delivered three rounds of energy to be relief bill relief satage.

You wrote, electricity prices have fallen. That's not true, is it?

Well?

The fact of the matter is, if you look at the recent data, Australia's had the lowest energy inflation in the world. You know, because you might deny that, and I know you deny several things.

Reason for it?

What is the reason for mister.

You when you're ask you a question or are your debating, it's.

Just that you are completely avoiding it, as you always do.

We get a blast.

I know you're a man of strong us on these matters, and I said, I've always had respect for you, but I have a fundamentally different view to the one that you have developed in recent years.

It's truly so absurd how each member of the alban Eazy government can stand up there and can claim that energy prices aren't rising after they promised some ninety seven times that they'd fall by two hundred.

And seventy five dollars or more.

Reducing the cost of living was Anthony Albanese's central attack line against Scott Morrison, when at the time there'd only been one interest rate rise. But as you know Albanez, he blamed Morrison for that single rate rise, yet then took no responsibility for the subsequent twelve under his watch. It's utterly preposterous to try and explain away the central broken promise on cost of living. It's like they're trying to claim black is white, and voters can see through

Instead, he tries to come up with.

Excuses, including attacking the journalist, and so questions around accountability will keep coming we'll keep following him. And it was a question on the two hundred and seventy five dollars broken promise that even the unimpeachably objective and politically neutral Ross Greenwood asked of the Treasurer last night twice, will.

You apologize to the people of Australia tonight for having your government having said that energy prices would come down by two hundred and seventy five dollars.

I take responsibility for all of the decisions that we've taken in our budget, so you will apologize, including let me finish.

Will you look down the battle of the camera and apologize for that? Because is that something you should do, because again, that was a promise, it was not fulfilled.

Well, the two hundred and seventy five figure that you're referring to from the modeling in twenty twenty one predated two important developments and.

When Alberizi has been asked this question, no apology either. This gives credence to accusations that alber Ezi is not being upfront with the Australian people, not on power bills or other matters of public interest.

The polls show there.

There's a live possibility of a hung parliament and Green's leader Adam Band came out yesterday and outlined the list of demands he'd make of Albanesi in the case of a hung parliament. They included negative gearing and capital gains tax changes.

I can announce today that the Greens will make reforming negative gearing in the capital gains text discount a priority in the next parliament, including when there's a minority government. The Greens plan would see negative gearing in the capital gains text discount scrapt for wealthy property investors, but preserved for what are often called mum and Dad investors with one investment property.

Well, all of this is a terrifying prospect, the idea that a radical extremist left party could be co governing Australia, Adam Band being Albernizi's.

Partner in crime.

Well.

Peter Dutton last night said that both Alberzi and Adam Bant have similar ideologies.

Their blood brothers Anthony Albernesi and Adam Bent had joined at the hip. Only their mothers can tell them apart.

Only their mothers can tell them apart. It was a great line from Peter Darton when he spoke to Chris Kenny last night. But in truth, the Greens are so grotesque that they're even backing a candidate who once joked that Hitler was having fun. And as you'd expect, Albinezi was far from pleased with this intervention from the Greens leader right in the middle of the election campaign, and he even criticized journalists for asking questions about it.

Can you rule out any changes to negative gearing and capital gains tests?

How hard is it for the fiftieth time? Just here, just here, just here, to form a government? What are you talking about?

Sorry, if the Greens come to you and you need their vote to pass legislation, will you rule out changing negative gearing settings and capital gains?

Yes?

And you might have noticed, I'm mean you're a state correspondent. But let me explain. There are twenty five votes we have in the Senate in order to get legislation through. We're in that situation, have been in that situation for this entire term.

Now, the prospect of a partnership with the Greens, if Albanezi wins minority government or if there's a hung parliament, this is a realistic prospect. It's a legitimate line of questioning for public accountability and transparency.

Albanezy needs to answer questions about this.

He can't be allowed to get away with brushing them off by getting angry at journalists and adopting.

A patronizing tone.

Well.

Peter Darton seized on this frustration felt by voters today when he launched a spectacular spray against the Prime Minister, accusing him of being a liar. Now Dartan is in the fight of his political life with just three weeks and two days until the election.

Three weeks in two days, and.

Instead of simply responding to a question from a journalist about a Liberal candidate, he took the press conference into his own hands to frame this message.

The Prime Minister has lied about the two hundred and seventy five dollars Australian families have suffered because of that. He's lied about the fact that power prices have now gone up by thirteen hundred dollars. That's the reality. The Prime Minister lied about falling off the stage for some reason.

I mean it was caught on camera.

Anthony Albertezi is out there telling people that he won't form a government with the Greens. People know he's lying about that. The Prime Minister has been lying about the medi Scare campaign. We increased hospital funding by sixteen percent, we increased education funding from thirteen billion to twenty five billion dollars and the Prime Minister is out there looking Australians in the eye saying that we did the opposite, but the numbers show that he's lying.

Now, the Opposition leader has been warming up to his attack that he claims Albaneze is a liar, and he

Great to see you both.

Love Well, let's stick with this energy minister's debate today because we saw Ted O'Brien again call on Chris Bowen to apologize for the broken promise.

This is now becoming a theme.

Will you apologize for your commitment that power bills would be churnentrent for five churndrences seventy.

Five dollars less, Joe?

Wouldn't it just be better for Alban easy to be upfront and go, Yep, we got it wrong, I'm sorry.

Yeah, Look, I think there is a way to do that, and I thought there was a way for charmers to do it last night as well. But I think the fear is with this culture and it sort of goes beyond politics as well, where you demand that someone apologizes for something and then as soon as they do it said, haha, you apologized, you admitted it, you were wrong. So instead of making the issue go away, it makes it worse. But I think certainly there's no point in telling people

Bills down page.

And there's a way also, I think of just being honest about it that actually tells a fairly positive story as well, so I can say, yes, look, there were huge rises in twenty twenty two twenty three, in part as the result of the war in Ukraine. But yes, there were some issues with renewables because people were buying power at spot highest spot prices because of.

A lot Wow you're doing but and you're trying to explain it.

There's aay of instead of just sort of trying to change the change the line of attack the journalist or whatever. You can't say yes, in part that was dree but also was these other factors as well.

I just think the news of those premier chrismins has shown how you can say, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. I regret that I wanted to make power bills cheaper. In fact we made them more expensive because of our rush to renewables.

Basil, what do you think, because this.

Is definitely a vulnerability for labor during this campaign, that promise that they never kept on cost.

Of living, There's no doubt about that. And I think to Joe's point, actually that digging in and trying to defend the indefensible position actually is far worse to the voting public. And then just saying yes, the gas prices have gone up electricity before the rebates has gone up, here's the reasons why. And even though that might be a touch uncomfortable, it's a much better position than trying

And you know, just to that point, we did see Peter Dutton on Monday come out and go I got this wrong in the working from home policy.

So it can't be done, you know it. Dunn's done it. It would be done Sharry.

And we're not talking about it today, are we. And that's the point. If you come out, you deal with it, as uncomfortable as it might be to have to go through that mea culpa. It's done and dusted. We're pretty forgiving in Australia. Even the journals are pretty forgiving in Australia. But by digging in they've made it worse.

Yeah, you cauterize the wound exactly now.

Senator Nampa Jimpa Price has claimed that the Albanesi government may proceed with plans for an indigenous treaty and a Macarata truth telling commission. She says that they've been absolutely opaque incented estimates with regard to Macarata, the twenty seven million dollars that they supposedly put in a contingency and what direction they're going to take.

So, Joe, what do you think is there any chance.

Of there's no I mean, I can't understand just into saying that you know that they're not ruling it out or it's still possible that they might or whatever. And probably the government is not wanting to emphatically say there's no way we're ever going to do this because that would upset certain members of the left who would jump up and down and make a noise and that's obviously incredibly unhelpful in an election campaign or ever. But no,

Once the voice.

You've asked about this, once the voice, Once the voice went down, it was all about practical reconciliar actually all about service delivery, all about just getting in there, you know, cleaning up those communities, getting more money for education, getting those grog bands back in place, getting more money for housing for Indigenous people. And it's all practical stuff, now anything any of that symbolic kind of big picture history, rewriting,

We saw Peter Dutton speak about the failed Voice referendum in the Leader's debate and it seems like a lot of voters have forgotten about this and this was really the point where Albinezi started losing momentum and the public turned against him. But it reminds people how actually Dutton can campaign very effectively. Was a sixty to forty vote to begin with in support of the referendum.

He campaigned against it and it switched. So but you know, perhaps it is.

A reminder that he can be strong at campaigning. There's three weeks to go.

Do we need to see a bit more of his fight? Do you think?

Well, he's a good campaigner, there's no doubt about that, and he can construct and hold an argument very well. I'm not certain though that making more of the voice and referring back to the referendum would necessarily be a smart or the correct policy for Peter Dutton and the Libs.

At this point.

They take their win in the referendum, They've got the result that they campaign for. I think people do see the election, the general election and the referendum is quite separate issues and I think the smart play is to keep them that way.

Agree. Well, let's turn to this story.

Shocking revelations today around teaching standards. The Australian reports that some universities are taking students who have HC results as low as thirty nine percent.

Now.

The report says that there's fifteen universities who are accepting students into teaching degrees with atars lower than sixty now. The Education Minister Jason Clair was asked if teachers need to be more intelligent than their students.

Pretty reasonable question.

Here's what he said, we'll read out his comments. He said, I think that's a given Joe. If this is his attitude, then why is a doing.

Something about this? Because it is a good point.

We've got children who can't read, can't write, and you know, perhaps it's because the teachers didn't even pass their HSC or VC.

Yeah.

I think there's a couple of things. One is that teacher burnout has been so high that there's a teacher shortage, and that in course increases the chance of being burnout because the teachers that are left behind do more, and then there's a panic and think, oh my god, we've got to get more teachers, which we have right now. There's a huge teacher shortage, to the point where people are bringing teachers out of retirement back into the classroom

And the way to do that is or part of the way to do that is improving pay.

You know, don't you think basil teachers need to be paid more. We need to have the absolute smartest, brightest, most creative people teaching our next generation.

You know, we despair the fact.

That there are teenagers and children who can't read and write, and this.

Is why this is part of the problem.

Pay them more well, talk about respect, and nothing shows that we respect our teaching staff. Right around Australia more than paying them the right amount of money to do the such important work that they do for the next generation of Australians they're shepherding them through. Now the point, i'd say, a really basic point, we have to make

Yeah, good point.

Now let's turn to that breaking news that I mentioned at the start of the show. The Herald Sun has revealed that a Brisbane IVF clinic has apologized after it implanted the wrong embryo in a woman. Now, the mother at the center of this bungle gave birth to a stranger's baby. This baby, it was believed to have been born last year. It was reportedly human error. Now, the monash IVF Chief executive set in a statement on behalf of Monash IVF, I want to say how truly sorry,

To everyone involved.

We will continue to support the patients through this extremely distressing time. So that's an extraordinary embryo mix up where a mother believed to be in Brisbane has given birth to a stranger's baby. Extraordinary, Joe. And it would be such a difficult dilemma as well.

I mean, you've had that emotionally, it would just absolutely screw with you so much. Can you just I mean, I can't even imagine but being a woman and giving birth to something you think is your own flesh and blood and then seeing some I mean, I'm I mean of course I would probably say you would care for the baby, and you'd want to keep it and try it, raised it as your own best. I mean, it's just so mind blow I mean, my eldest son is you know, he's hit every branch on the way down in terms

There's so much more we don't know about this story, understandably for privacy reasons, Basil, But you know, I would expect the mother would still love that baby, you'd assume, even though it wasn't.

Her genetic material.

But then could there be a legal battle from the person who's embryo. It actually is so I mean, there's just it's just a minefield.

It's so incredibly challenging for all of the people involved, notwithstanding the staff and the complications there with mine ash and we understand that, or the mother who has carried that baby for nine months and then now to have to go through the mental dilemma, not even a dilemma, but just the total conundrum in her mind and the family's minds of how do I feel now about this person knowing what I know now? And I mean, you just feel so desperately that these people have been put

You'd think an apology would not be good enough. There'd probably have to be some compensation in here as well. And by the way, the error was reportedly discovered when the birth parents requested the transfer of their remaining embryos to another IVF clinic. So major drama, all right, Basil Zemblas.

Joe Hudebrand, very right, Joe.

Now let's turn out to the tariff retreat that has the whole world talking. This has been a monumental u turn from Donald Trump. He has pressed the ninety dight pause button on his tariffs, but they will now still be a base ten percent tariff. Here was the President rationalizing this shock move.

Somebody had to do what we did, and I did a ninety day pause for the people that didn't retaliate because they told him, if you retaliate.

We're going to double it.

And that's what I did with China.

Yep.

So, as he says, China will still have the full weight of the tariffs.

As I told everyone a week ago there in this very spot, do not retaliate and you will be rewarded. So every country in the world who wants to come and negotiate, we are willing to hear you. We're going to go down to a ten percent baseline tariff there for them and China will be raised to one twenty five due to their insistence on s.

That's of course US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessont there. Well, let's bring you now, Institute of Public Affairs Chief Economists Adam Crichton.

Adam, great to see you, as always.

Look, this has been the most roller coaster of a two week period on these tariffs. Donald Trump did tell reporters that he pulled back on these tariffs because people were quote yippie and afraid of the stock market volatility.

Is this his logic here? What's happened behind the scenes?

Well, look, certainly Donald trump supporters think it's the art of the deal, and his critics think that it's the art of the deal, But no one really knows here, you know, what the actual reasoning was behind the scenes. But look, certainly I think Trump is you know, is coming out of it reasonably. Well, so far, he's got this ten percent tariff flow so far, which is applying to all imports.

Into the US.

That's about three hundred and eighty billion dollars a year of extra revenue, which the un US can sorely need, of course, given the two trillion dollar annual budget deficit.

That it has.

So yeah, so I think it's going fairly fairly.

Well for him, fairly well for him. Certainly not in the media. Would Elon Musk have played into this. Well, not in the media, but this, yeah, continue, so gone, continue.

So much focus on the stop No, there's so much noll. There's so much focus on the stock market. But really there's too much focus on the stock market. I would say it's not really a good indication of the real economy. You know, what matters for Trump and his supporters is that jobs are brought back to the US. Now it remains have you seen whether these tariffs are the solution to that? But we have to give it a chance to work.

I would say, I'll get to some of the unintended consequences in the moment, the issue with the debt market.

But first I want to ask you about Elon Musk.

We saw he came out publicly against Trump's trade advisor, Pete Navarro, said very public.

Insults about him. So clearly Elon Musk was against the tariffs.

Now you'd have to say that Donald Trump is ultimately against tariff's as well. He was trying to get the base down to no tariffs on both sides. But do you think Elon Musk's push also Trump donors like Bill Ackman, he said there should be a ninety day pause. Would these sort of figures have influenced the president's thinking.

Well, I think one of the things that's come out of all this is that Trump is not in the pocket of Wall Street. That's how he's caricatured all the time by the left. But of course for the last the last fortnight, it's been chaos on Wall Street. It's been chaos for stock investors. I mean, he's smashed their returns. They're still down by seven or eight percent, even though

By the way, it was four.

Hundred and twenty billion dollars roughly in twenty eighteen. It's something like two hundred and sixty billion dollars now. And the tariffs still remain on China. I think, you know, more than one hundred and twenty percent, you know, which is highly disruptive and is probably going to lead two imports into the US from third countries.

I would say, so, I want to return to this issue with the debt bonds because there's been so much focused on market volatility and yep, it's still down. But the reality is markets do go up and down. They react to news that are panicked investors. But this issue with the debt bonds is far more serious. Can you tell me about how that could play out for the US with China?

Yeah, certainly.

The bond markets have been just as volatile as the stock markets, even though they don't get as much attention in the press. I mean, it's interesting in recent in recent days, the US government ten year bond yield's been even higher than Australia's I think about four point five by four point three. The concern here is that China is a big holder, relatively large holder of US government debt, and that in a fit of peak or anger, it may decide to sell some of those bonds, which of

But I don't think that.

China is going to well, we'll press the big red button on that.

Well.

Another economist I spoke to off air last night, Warren Hogan was worried about this and said it could impact on US continuing to meet its debt repayments. But anyway, I guess we'll see how that plays out.

Cold who knows, No one knows what's happening. No one knows what's happening.

Adam Crichton, love having you on as always, Thanks for your time. Now still to come.

Ted O'Brian doesn't rule out ditching the Paris Climate Agreement in today's debate, and then he later says that the L and P is.

Committed to the target.

Well is the Prime Minister planning to weaponize this? Plus Howard Dutton handle Trump and the tariffs? His shadow Trade minister will tell us next.

Welcome back.

Well, the issue now is that China is trying to step in to fill the potential void left by the US. And the question is how will Albin Easy respond to China's offer today to hold hands with Australia amid the Trump's tariff agenda? Will Alban Easy dodge the invite?

Have a look?

We will speak for ourselves.

The US administration changes its position on a regular basis. That is why you have to be an adult, not have dial it up to eleven at every opportunity, which is what Peter Dutton's plan is on everything, and just to say first thing that comes into your head and then pretend that you haven't said it and wind it back.

And Shadow Trade Minister Kevin Hogan joins us now from Lismo, good to see you, Thanks for your time.

Good to see you, Shary.

Now, how would.

You be responding to this invitation from China?

Well, Shary, we obviously have a very comp elementary relationship with China. They are our biggest export market. We sold over two hundred billion dollars worth of goods and services to.

Them just last year.

So we compliment each other what they want we have. So that's been a good relationship for them, and it's been a good relationship for us. But very importantly, we have a very close relationship with the United States and a very important national security relationship with the United States. And I've said previously that I think Orcus will outlive Trump's presidency, that will outlive Kersteiner's Prime ministership and our

You say China has been good to us and there's been a complementary relationship, Well that wasn't the case just a couple of years ago. I mean during the COVID pandemic, China imposed egregious tariffs and even trade bands on Australia.

Yeah, complementary relationship, but yes, hasn't always been a good relationship. They banned a lot of products to us, which we think was egregious. We as you know, when we were in government, we took wto action against China for some of those bands or some of those tarots that put on products. So that was resolved. So, look, we've had a complementary relationship, that's what we've had. That's obviously been

So are you concerned that we are seeing adversaries like China try and take advantage of the Trump chaos.

Well, look, China will do what they will with their neighbors, with their relationships with you know, all their neighbors and all people that they are around. But look, this for US isn't about doing one thing with one and one thing with another. We have a complementary relationship with China that has been a good trading relationship in the sense

Do you think Donald Trump was right to pause for ninety days his tariffs.

Look, I'm glad he did.

I think the tariffs are a bad idea and bad policy. I think it's inflationary for the US consumer, puts the price of things up, and I think it could do great damage to world growth. And if there's a trade war like we're seen a bit between China and the US now, I don't think.

That's good for growth.

We're a big exporting nation. We sold six hundred and fifty billion dollars worth of stuff overseas last year, and that depends on good global growth, so we don't want to see that retract. So I was happy to see the poor and hopefully these are more. You know, you hear different reports out of the States that these transactional. Did he do this to get leverage in other areas?

We'll wait and see.

I hope that's what it is to ask you to get removed.

I want to ask you about that because one thing that he has put in the agenda also other members of his team, is the bound on American beef that Australia has in place. Yes, we've got it in place for biosecurity reasons, but his team.

Say that that's fake.

They literally use that word fake in Senate hearings this week. Do you think we should be revisiting those bands? Seeing as it has been a long time since there was any mad.

Cow disease in the United States?

The burgers are safe to eat when you're in the United States, as many Australians know.

Well, look, showy, what I wouldn't say is that we should change our bias. This is bias biosecurity as you know, it's mad cow disease that they had now quite a while ago. What I don't think we should change is our biosecurity protocols. But as part of those protocols we we've is it this all the time anyway in the normal course of business, So the Department of Ag will go through a process and regularly review it to see

This is one of the things that the Trump administration has put on the table that they'd like to see Australia lift that ban.

There is no mad cow disease.

So should that be something that the Australian government sits down and negotiates.

Well, I don't think it should be something that we negotiate as part of this deal. And I don't think we should say we're going to lift the ban on your beef to get a deal. I don't think we should say that. No, But I think we just keep our biosecurity rules in place. They're there for a reason, and we adhere to what our biosecurity protocols tell us to do and not change them.

All right, Kevin Hogan, appreciate your time, Thank you very much. Now still to come the liberal candidate trying to unseat Josh Burns in the Victorian seat of Macnamara.

Why he's now in with the chance.

Plus revelations that Labour six hundred billion dollar figure came from an activist group.

That's next. Welcome back.

Well, let's return to the energy debate between Chris Bowen and Ted O'Brien today. Now, for weeks, Labour has claimed that the coalition's nuclear energy plan will cost six hundred billion dollars, but they haven't said where that figure comes from. Well, Chris Bowen was finally pressed on this today.

Six hundred billion dollars is the figure you've quoted a lot. The CSIO on next Gen report found the costs of nuclear just the actual building cost would actually be one hundred and sixteen billion. Isn't that a better authority to use than the Lobby Group's Smart Energy Council which is thrown up up to six hundred billion, not six hundred bill, but up to what Tom.

I don't agree with respect the premise of the way you've asked the question, because absolutely the CSIRO should be the organization we listened to mister a Brien claims they've used the CSI roh is.

That's not true.

It's just not right.

And then Chris Bowen refused to say how much Labour's own plan would cost.

That wasn't.

I didn't interrupt your question.

Well it was my.

Question, so I will interrupt you. We're not after the NPV. No one here walks into a shop and says, oh, how much is the bottle of milk? And you know the shopkeeper says, or do you want an MPV on that? No, I just tell us how much it costs? So how much is it going to cost?

You can dismiss the way that AEMO says is the most accurate way of describing it. I choose criticizing the way you're describing it because your avoid your question.

Unbearable.

Well to discuss, let's bring in The Australian's Environment editor Graham.

Lloyd Graham, good to see you. Well, So how credible.

Is this figure the six hundred billion supposed cost of the coalition's nuclear policy, Well.

Good Edny Schari. It was quite a revelation in the debate there that this figure has come from the Smart Energy Council, which is unashamably a lobby group for the renewable energy industry. There's obviously a big range of cost things that can be applied, but the csiro O report

Yeah, it really is interesting, but in the end it almost doesn't matter because Albanize is using it all the time. We heard in the leader's debate on Tuesday night here kept saying that Dutton was planning secret cuts to fund the six hundred billion dollar nuclear plan. So again, you know, you repeat it often enough and it's to become reality.

Well, that's certainly how this is being played, that the six hundred billion has been constantly rolled out as the cost of the coalition's plan. So I think it is really important that the truth behind where that figure comes from is widely understood and that process is really started, I think today.

Look, another key moment today was when Tet O'Brien didn't really rule out the coalition ditching the Paris climate target.

Here he was, we want to ensure that we are growing this country, not decarbonizing it is good. Deindustrializing it like labor is bad. Once we've done that analysis, then we'll be making decisions along the lines that you pose. So I won't be pre empty today, with all due respect that hypothetical.

You're prepared, all of those things considered that if it is in the national interest to potentially leave Paris, I can.

Commit that we will always act in the national interest and we'll be upfront with the Australian people.

Graham kind of an odd response.

He then had to issue a statement clearing this up afterwards.

That's right. This is quite an encendry area and it will be interesting to see how it's received. If this had come up in the last federal election campaign, you would expect there would be a huge outcry from around the place. I suspect that the outcry will be slightly more muted this time, because there's a much better understanding of how difficult this all is. And if you look

Yeah, it's just amazing.

I mean it's just the space of three years and yet barely anyone, even the Teals, are not mentioning climate change this election.

They campaigned on it heavily last time and.

Again you know you mentioned Labour's twenty thirty five targets.

How can they get.

Away with not saying they're twenty thirty five targets, it's in ten years time, yet they haven't put that forward. Look, I just want to ask you to end off about the gas reservation, the East Coast gas reservation. It seems like the leftist media, including the ABC, just a fighting tooth and nail against this, having a lot of activists on their programs who don't support it. Why would they be against more gas into the market.

Well, it's an article of faith for a lot of people on the left to not let more gas into the system because that will push out of renewables and things, which is really a misreading of how this transition is going to work into the future. But there's you know, the one thing you can say about the gas reservation policy is as a sort of a slogan gas reservation that works pretty well. It's when you get to the

Indeed, all right, Grahame Lloyd, great to have you on. Thank you so much.

Now after the break, as Jewish Labor MP Josh Burns fights alban Easy to allow him not to preference the Greens, well, it seems the Liberals may be in with a chance in this critical Victorian seat.

I'll speak with a coalition candidate next.

Now.

The last thing that Jewish Labor politician Josh Burns wants to do is preference the Greens in his seat of McNamara, but it seems he hasn't been able to get permission from Alban Easy all Labor headquarters so far.

Now.

The Australian has reported on a leaked audio recording where Josh Burns tells Waiders to give him time and to watch this space when asked if he deny preferences to the Greens.

We'll joining me now.

Is the Liberal candidate up against Josh Burns in McNamara, Benson Salo Benson.

Good to have you on the show. Now, this is an unusual seat.

That you're running in from a demographics pace, because yes, there's a large Jewish population but also many Greens voters.

So how do you deal with this when you're campaigning?

Well, thanks so much Harry for having me on, and our team has been out since July knocking on doors, meeting with people at the shops and understanding what are the key issues impacting people and right now across McNamara, cost of living is the number one issue that's really impacting household budgets. It's impacting businesses right across the electorate. And the second one, which most people would consider it being a state issue, is really crime and community safety.

Yeah, we have.

Indeed now preferences with the Greens has become quite a big issue in Macnamara and Benson last night at the community forum you were at with Josh Burns, he was asked about whether he'd preferenced the Greens last Here's what he had to say.

I really like Benson, is ay, but he's not the person I'm worried about winning this seat. The only people who can win this seat and me.

Or the Greens.

And if the Greens form into the top two, then you think about the people who make up this electorate, a young progressive people from Ellwood, from Sint Kilda, from Winsor from South Melbourne, from South Bank.

Now we are a proud and.

Large Jewish community, but we're only ten percent of the electorate of McNamara.

So, Benson, what's your response to what Josh said?

Do you think we are looking at a Greens MP winning McNamara here?

Well, the only way that a Greens MP can win you if the Jewish community and the broader community vote for a party that actually is preferencing the Greens. And

And it seems we don't, you know, we don't know where this is going to land. But it seems at this point he hasn't been allowed to put the Greens last. He's also been in a very difficult position.

Josh Burns.

He's Jewish, he supports Israel, but he's sitting within.

The Albanese government.

Do you think he's done enough to defend the Jewish community and fight back against the Albanese government's hostility towards Israel.

Look, Josh's is an important voice within Labor, but unfortunately, what we've seen is that Labor has actively abandoned and walked away from the Jewish community. We've seen that at the un we've seen that federally, We've seen this playing out on our streets and across our university campuses. And so, while I do applaud Josh Burns's efforts internally, clearly he doesn't have the ear of the Prime Minister in highlighting

It's actually worth pointing out that there still haven't been any arrests made for the perpetrators behind the Adas Synagogue fire bombing. I mean that's been months now and yet no arrests at all by Victorian police. New Southwalans police have been very active. They've arrested at least more than fourteen people for a spate of different incidents, but we haven't seen those arrests from Victorian police yet. Are the incidents in Victoria as well outstanding. So look, we hope

Benson Sallow. Great to meet you on the show and have you on. Thanks for your time.

Thank you very much, Sherry.

Now it's Eastern next week. Of course, the East the show, I'm told opens tomorrow. I love the East of the show, but it's also passover this weekend, so I want to wish all of our Jewish viewers at Kagsa Meyer for this weekend. I've been making mutter balls with my ninety one year old grandmother Yaya this week, so it'll be a great say to now. I'll see you on Monday at eight. But right now, here's Paul Murray in the man Cave.