There's kind of this misnomer that in cybersecurity we all wear black hoodies, you know, kind of hacking. We are the largest pure play global cybersecurity company in the world. We have the largest threat intelligence service, so governments all around the world depend on us. You would think within five eyes that the communication is so amazing and perfect. One of the strategies though, of bad actors is they don't always see them happening.
Hi, there, welcome to Shared Lunch, brought to you by Chezy's. My name's Lake and Roberts, and I'm one of the co founders and co CEOs here at Cheesy's. Today we're talking about cybersecurity and AI with California based Palao tournic Works. They are listed on the nasdack though one of the largest global cybersecurity solution providers in the world, with a
market cap of approximately one hundred and twenty seven billion dollars. Today, I'm joined by the New Zealand managing Director, Misty Landtroup. But before we get started, here's some important information. Involves the risk you might lose the money you start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. Everything you're about to see and here is current at the
time of recording. Welcome missie, Thanks so much for joining us today.
Awesome, great to be here, Laton, thank you.
Yes, so let's get started, as we always do, like a little bit get to know you. In a bit of my LinkedIn reading last night is a former Fox News reporter caught my attention, and you worked at Microsoft in the US. You've got a history as an angel investor. It's a very varied career. So how did you end up in cybersecurity and also why New Zealand.
I always wanted to be a journalist. What I realized though, really quickly, was that I enjoyed the storytelling and I enjoyed being part of all that, in the excitement and those types of things. I didn't like being on air. And also I also liked to just put a disclaimer the whole Fox thing. It was a Warner Brothers affiliate, it got bought by Fox. This is way, this is
a long time ago. I'm going to age myself. This is in the late mid to late nineties, and when I was on air then I just don't want to make anyone too impressed by that, because I really do think our local prison was probably our biggest audience, and so it was a great training ground for me. We do and what I really loved is we had a campus journal. I went to Texas A and M University, which I'm very proud alumni of that and I also worked for one of my professors in taught video editing.
So I've always been kind of a geek. So that's what led me to eventually to Microsoft, and never dreamt that I would end up in New Zealand. It's a very long, corporate, boring story of a bunch of people
that thought they knew what was best for me. However, I'm super grateful so landed here in late two thousand and nine, fresh off the boat, had never set foot in the country, and now I'm super proud to say that both my daughter Abby and I are dual citizens as of twenty seventeen, and this is very much our adopted home and country.
So cool.
I don't know that I answered how I got into cyber I just got recruited, and actually I tried to talk my boss who's still my boss today, who recruited me. I basically said, you've got to. I just don't know that that's transformational enough. I didn't get it that cyber was going to be involved in every single thing that
we do. There's kind of this misnomer that in cybersecurity we all wear black hoodies and we're sitting behind in the you know, kind of hacking or out trying to go and go after the bad actors of the hackers and things like that. So what I've seen happen over the last I've almost been at my Palatin Networks for six years is unbelievable and transformational just globally as well.
It's a long way from one of those software we used to use. It just used a meat scape worker magafee, this ones it just to annoy you every time you turned your computer on. But yeah, very much a mess of trend and post COVID in particular, which we'll talk about soon. I'd imagine the storytelling expect which you mentioned right at the start the year, has served you pretty well in the Korea.
Yeah. Absolutely. The main thing I think with cyber in particular is people get quite scared of because they're like, that's a black box over there. We don't understand. We don't know what that is. So it really one of the big parts of my job is to try to demystify no pun Intendo with my name, but to try to demystify all of the things that make cyber seem
more complex and more scary and so. And that's why one of the things we launched back in October is called cyber fit Nation, and it's basically from Kendy to the boardroom around educational services in US giving back for New Zealand Inc. Just around how do we keep people more safe? How do we keep them more educated? And somebody just tagged on from Kindy to the boardroom and on into retirement because as we know, a lot of people get targeted in that world of way.
My uncles are regularly getting new Facebook accounts exactly.
I mean, there's just it's rampant out there. It's a big business with anything to do with cybercrime and all the things that we're talking about here. It's multi trillion dollar business. So it's not going to go away anytime soon.
Before we go any further, let's just define cybersecurity for anyone listening who doesn't completely capture the scope of that. So we know that it's on the rise. It's probably something that almost everyone's heard of now. But can you just give us, like a layperson's definition of cybersecurity?
Sure? So, I think probably the best way to describe it, you could talk to anybody pretty much at any age, is if we most of us have devices, and so how do we make sure that we keep our information data secure on our device other than hitting the lock screen, which is going to do much for that, And so from a cyber perspective, and this might sound a little bit technical, but I do think it's important, is that it's just table stakes. Everyone should have two factor authentication.
All that means is whenever you're logging into an application, which most of us are in constantly on our phones or in our browser. Lots of work done in the browser now with SaaS applications and solutions is to make sure that it's constantly being verified that you are the person that is accessing that, and that you keep that as secure as possible, to make sure that nobody can get in to get your data, to get your money,
to get any of your information. Then that's probably the most simplistic way that I would describe it.
Yeah, nice and two effect is a multi effect is a great way to start. Actually in a bit of a plug here, if any of our customers listening, please use it.
Password managers and those types of things. I mean, those are things that I think everyone should. Yeah, that should just be something that everyone should do, just as the best practice just to keep your your everything safe.
So at Palalo Networks, what do you specialize in? What's your business?
So we specialize in a lot and I'm that may be an oxymoron to say you specialize in a lot. However, I will say at Palats Networks, what part of our ethos and what's ingrained in us is we don't want to be in a cybersecurity category and the categories are defined by Gartner and Forster different analysts unless we can
be the best. So, just to give a quick history lesson about eighteen years ago is when Palatine Networks was born and we started off as a single product company, so it was just next generation firewall at the time, and we actually came up with the term next generation firewall, which now every other company uses that same term. You'll find the same thing with other solutions that we've done. We're typically the trailblazer not always, but typically, and then
others will follow. So today, if you fast forward into twenty twenty five, then we have a platform approach, and when we think about that, then we look at network security, so that means data centers, anything on your devices. We have again I don't want to get into two technical of language, but it's called Secure Access Service EDGE and
what that means our SASE. To make it sound a little bit cooler, it's SASE, and basically that is at any device on the edge, anything that you're doing out there, then that is staying secure. So that would go in kind of our network security platform. And then we also have cloud. Over eighty percent of attacks are now in
breaches are now happening in the cloud. And so for any company that's a cloud board in the cloud business that has applications and things going on in the cloud, it's developing things in the cloud, all that needs to be looked at quite specifically. And then the third one would be around security operations and so this is all
around automation. So for those of you who have ever been into a security operations center, which I'm not sure if you have or haven't, Basically you think about you it's kind of like a control tower of if you're doing for airplanes, you've got lots of screens everywhere. So what we've come up with is an automation piece with that, so by using machine learning and artificial intelligence, so that
that is what is kind of doing all that. And i'd also just say from the beginning, even with our original kind of groundbreaking next generation firewall back almost twenty years ago, then we started off using machine learning from the beginning. And so I know everyone likes to talk about mL and AI and this and that right now, but it's actually, as we both know, it's been around for ages and that's just what our company was built on.
Another thing that was really interesting in one of the articles I read was which I'd like you to tell us a little bit about your computers in that space, but also a specific comment that to achieve what we need to achieve, like we need to work really closely with computers and can't hold which I imagine is an very interesting conflict for a commercial company.
And not everybody agrees with me on this, I will say, however, I do firmly believe that our leadership is very pro doing this. There's an organization a global organization called this Cyber Threat Alliance, and we're actually one of the founding members. So the premise behind it is we all should stand together to fight bad actors. One hundred percent. How we do that in our IP that's our competition. That's different
when somebody's in trouble. However, then I could name so many competitors right now that we help in the background. Because we are the largest pure play global cybersecurity company in the world. We have the largest threat intelligence service, so governments all around the world depend on us. We find out stuff before other people find out, just because for the biggest and we've got the most investment in that, and so we absolutely have to help our competitors when
they're in trouble. And we would never I would be super disappointed if I ever saw anything online from anybody within my organization that was saying anything negative about a competitor when they're in troubled times. It's just not okay. And so we are here together to help, and specifically within New Zealand. I won't be able to get into the details. However, all the usual things that everyone knows that have happened over the last few years, absolutely we've
been in shouldered shoulder armed arm with our competitors. It's not always doesn't always translate sometimes to some people specifically in New Zealand, who are maybe more on the sales side, but when we're talking about the practitioners and the people that are actually helping in the background. So I'm super proud of that and I will always be an advocate for that one percent.
What about government presumably a pretty close relationship.
There as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And again that's another one. You know, we try to share as much as we possibly can. Again with the way I mean we're competing for business. However, when a catastrophe or a breach or something hits and we all want to try to share our threat intelligence so that we can help as well. So and NCC is tied into everybody as well as when we bring over our experts from the US from ART. So our threat intelligence team is called Unit forty two,
and so that it's great. I know, it's a great name.
I get a lot of security team would be a good place.
We get a lot of comments on that, and when we bring over I always say that they're like our ninjas. They're amazing. They are very highly skilled folks, and lots of the conversations I can't even be in because they're too highly classified. With government, however, it is a partnership, so obviously part of five and making sure that everything
is buttoned up. One thing that's really interesting with bad actors because you would think within five eyes that the communication is so amazing and perfect that if one country gets hit with something, then all the rest of them know immediately. We try to help with that. One of the strategies though, of bad actors is they don't always see that happening, so they might hit the US one day, and then Canada the next, and then Australia and nobody
even knows what's going on. So it's quite interesting, and I think there's just a bit of work to be done around how to tighten that up a bit so that we can always have so much defense and defense and depth as kind of are saying that we say around that, so yeah, nice.
So who are your computer is?
I mean the usual suspects in kind of the firewalls space tra digital firewall space would be Fortinet and Checkpoint. You've got crowd Strike is a great company, and.
The recently yeah, exactly one biggest company. I want to hear it also saying how many of these companies that probably don't you know immediately spring to mind.
Well, it's interesting as well as what translates into the public. And so when the whole thing happened with CrowdStrike, I was Friday evening for US. I went in next morning Saturday to my gym and there was a sign on the door that said, we apologize our systems are slow because of the Microsoft outage, and I was like, oh, and I was like, well, I mean it was a little bit because I'm still proud. I mean, I've been
a Microsoft for a long time. I was like, there wasn't actually what happened, and that is actually not But that's just what translates though into the public, and I think in any of those situations, it gives people a bit of a pause around just reevaluating what they have and kind of what's moving forward. There are so many cybersecurity companies in the world, it is unbelievable, and there's more and more popping up every day. One of the things we get lots of feedback from customers around is
it's just too many. If you can imagine, like in the US sometimes on average sixty companies that they're trying to keep their company safe by trying to get sixty different solutions to talk to each other. I'd say in New Zealand that we're probably around fifteen to twenty, which is still too many, and trying to get all of that to stitch together so that you can get a clear view of am I safe or am I not safe? Or how safe am I?
The more complexity, the more gets one hundred percent.
And so that's why, as I said earlier, we don't want to be in a security category unless we can be the best. And we're trying to build platforms that resonate with our customers so that they can get on and do what they need to do to run their business and that they are secure. And so that's why our platformization strategy is resonating. It's interesting in the actually.
Big part of the strategy for the business now one hundred percent.
And that is, you know, we just had our earnings call last week and one thing that's being highlighted that's really fueling that is around platformation. So instead of a company, I know, I know it's a bit so our CEO, I'm pretty sure he made it up. I'm not I'm not definitely for sure. And he came out with it about a year ago, and at first I think everyone was kind of like, whoa, what is this? What is that word? And what does it mean? And in the
past you'd hear a lot about consolidation. I think the magic around platformization is really being able to use that as your superpower to progress, where consolidation in the past one of the top targets was just completely cost out, so it wasn't really thinking about being strategic. With platformization, excuse me, you can be strategic and have cost out and have the highest security postures. So it's like the nirvana of everything that you need.
We're going to get way more too that and the earning school very shortly. But firstly, love to hear a bit about who your customers are at the moment, the types of customers, type of industries, and also target we were you hitting with.
It sure in New Zealand. Then when I was brought on in mid twenty nineteen, basically it was to invest in the New Zealand market for the listener toil job. Yes, well in building the business basically, yeah, from at the time, we had a couple of people that were based in New Zealand, but they were managed out of Australia, which New Zealand companies love it when you US multinationals come in and do that. So I got an opportunity to come in and basically build that. So we had a
couple of people. Now we've got about twenty and we it's mainly sales and marketing functions and then also professional services, delivery, customer success and some other engineering type roles. So with our current customers all B to B so we're not a consumer company, so all the usual suspects of industry. So we've taught. We touched on government and public sectors, so that's a big market for us, specifically education within
New Zealand. And we did announce recently that we have gone into partnership with the Network for Learning, which provides cybersecurity and IT solutions for twenty six hundred primary and secondary schools in New Zealand and so we are now their primary technology partners. So we're very excite. Matter of fact, this week we're doing our first pilot schools cutover onto pilots Networks. I think I'm okay to say that it's all of an and ounce, so sores what we're doing
in there. So education is big, tertiary education, the polytechs and those types of things, so that's super important to us. Healthcare is one that's very important in top of mind, and I would also say everyone's important on top of mind. But those two when I think of specific verticals, and then we've been super strong in financial services as well.
These are global viticals as well.
These are all global verticals. However, what I'm mentioning then we're super strong in New Zealand as well, so those are probably in thecreical infrastructure, and so those are the ones that come top of mind. And then overall I did mention government when I say public sector, that's just there's so many bullet points that go beyond that. However, we have a very very strong public sector team globally
as well, and so that's a very tight end. When I mentioned what we're doing with the five eyes and what we're doing with all the different usual suspects within the top shelf of the governments around the world, that's a very very important market for us, just from.
A I suspect. The unit forty two some pretty higher information.
Yeah, they do, they do, yeh know. It's great, It's actually really good. And I'm super excited because we have just hired somebody. I can't announce who it is yet, but we've just hired a Unit forty two director to be based in New Zealand and it's going to be huge for us. That's one of our fastest growing parts of our business is around providing instant response in proactive service and deep dark web monitoring and things like that.
So I am I am absolutely over the moon to bring this person on board.
Hearing more maybe or maybe not.
Maybet a waste, No no, no, no, it'll be out there. We'll get it out there.
Great. Well, it's earning season, so let's talk about some numbers. So last week you released the Q two results. Revenue was up fourteen percent year on year, so two point three billion. In the next Gen Security annual recurring revenues that are grew thirty seven percent year on year four point eight billion. So what's the primary thing driving those numbers?
So a couple of them we've already touched on. Definitely think platformization is resonating globally.
Yeah, presumably the recurring revenue aspect and the growth here as a target aspect for you as well.
Yeah. Absolutely. And one of the things that's interesting about our platformization approach I didn't mention earlier is let's say I've got a customer and they're like, hey, mistee, we want to go all in with you guys. However, we've got this contract with these other vendors. They don't expire for another six months, twelve months, eighteen months, twenty four months.
What we do in those situations is we work on a strategy where we can buy out those contracts because our philosophy is if the customer's ready to move and we're ready to get them on to this strategy that we think is going to be a better security posture for them longer term, and we can help take the cost out so they're obviously not having to pay for two vendors at the same time, then that's a better strategy. Does it cost us something on the front end, Absolutely
it does. There's an investment on our part. However, in the long run, we firmly believe that we're building customers for life. So if we can take a short term loss for a long term five to ten plus year gain, then that is a very easy decision for us.
Yeah, how like long are what's the normal contract life cycle in the space. I kind of mention people are wanting to switch often, but the actual contracted Like.
I've got a ten year contract and I've got a one year contract. So it really depends on what's going on within the organization and what they're appetite for signing up for that particular solution. So yeah, it definitely varies from company to company.
Nice and so you've had double digit growth yere on you for I didn't see exactly how many years, but look like a few expecting that to continue at the same rate.
I hope. So it's the teams are working really hard. The business that the company is doing and the details behind it is unbelievable. And I think even in New Zealand, the deal sizes are getting so much larger than I mean, we're talking triple, quadruple what we used to do. And that again is being fueled because a customer's saying, I don't want to just go do this piece. More thing here and peace more thing here, give me what I
can do across my estate. Yeah, we're involved in most digital transformation conversations and if we're not, we should be and or our partners should be whoever we're partnering with every single transformation business strategy that's happening in New Zealand
as a cyber aspect to it. And so that is something that I feel like it's getting more prevalent that I get phone calls from not only CIOs and CDOs and sizos, chief Information Security offic server those of you don't know, but also CFOs and CEOs and so it's building those types of relationships that's absolutely critical and the trust they need to know, am I backing the right horse? Am I picking the right lane? Is palleled to networks?
Is that what we need to do? So that's our job to keep them kind of on that path to make sure they understand that.
One of the big learnings for me in business, I think over the last few years is being the really fine way the wind's blowing, try to get it behind you. Yeah, and cybersecurity hits the wind blowing behind it at the moment with a lot of you know, a lot more risk entering in the space as well, Like it's like certainly AI and what the what's coming in the space is introducing more risks on at least at the moment.
Yeah, And that's the other thing too. Any organization that says to me, oh, we're going to kind of take a wait and see approach on all this generative AI, and I always say them, can I have your permission to do a few things a few reports, so I can just show you it's already in there. There's a lot of unsanctioned apps, You've got lots of holes in your organization that we can help you go and feel that.
And that's something that I feel like we are doing again being a trailblazer in that space, to say, look at what's going on across your estate from a generative AI perspective, and what's going on with whatever you've got working on with LLMS agentative AI as well for all the agents. Then it's something that we've got the tools and the expertise to be able to go and get
in front of that. And that's what will continue to invest in when we invest well over a billion dollars a year just an R and D around, So that's how we can kind of continue to be in the front of what's next.
Really on that mecro space. I mean, you're can be closer to this. Most of you're saying, you're jrset is in the US New Zealand, but you're a global company listed on the US Stock Exchange, got many customers in the US as well. How's the Trump administration and the change there impacted Palo alto the company, And you're thinking, so, one thing.
That's really good about cybersecurity, it's very bipartisan. So we have enjoyed we enjoyed a good relationship with the Trump administration back in twenty sixteen, the same with Biden, and then now with Trump being back in office, then we have really strong relationships and specifically within our federal government and leadership, and so we will continue to double down
on the US government regardless of who's in office. And it hasn't really changed much for us, and so they all know that we're there and ready and that we're a strategic partner. And so yeah, it's it's been. I haven't really seen much of a difference in that.
It's great to promat a cancer and probably expected for that, but I mean, I very much hope it has very bypassing prediction on this and certainly the investment from people going into on the on the other side of creating these scams, and it's certainly indifferent to who the administration is.
Suppose they don't care. And as I said before, it's a big business, and yeah, it's relentless.
So could you tell us a little bit around the trends we're seeing in cybersecurity. We've touched on UNI forty two a couple of times, but they predict this year to be the year of disruption. What does that mean.
There's a statistic in our Unit forty two predictions that they talked about eighty percent of breaches are now happening in the cloud, and so I think that is going to continue to ramp up. And if you think about all the cloud service provider, so all the usual suspects of Google, Aws, Azure, and we have this what's called a shared responsibility model in that they have their own security. However,
most companies also have another security that is implemented. But that whole shared responsibility model is becoming quite interesting from a cloud perspective, just because when something does go wrong, then the lines not always like let's say, as an example, you decide with share zase that you're not going to have any other security. You're just going to go all in with one of the cloud service providers, and then
something happens. Chances are the cloud the CSP is probably going to say, well, it's not my problem, but we did what we did. Our part of the responsible piece for that you should have had X y Z in there. So that one's quite interesting. I'd also say the prevalence of what we were talking about earlier with jen AI and LMS and where that's going, and we have to
be thinking about fighting AI with AI. If you're a company who has is doing something from a cyber perspective, and that who whatever organization that you're working with, that they have not invested in using AI and machine learning tools to have that type of automation, you're going to be in a really, really world of hurt because you
cannot fight that with a human. You've got to go and make the hopefully keep the AI and machine learning and everything else smarter than what the bad actors are doing, but you absolutely have to fight AI with AI. It's quite an interesting world, this whole dark Web piece. And I've never really kind of gone down a rabbit hole into this, but what I do find is when some of our customers get themselves into a bit of a pickle,
so to speak. Then it's interesting to watch the unit forty two folks who know they've got their own relationships with hackers, because that's how from a threat hunting perspective and trying to obviously we're monitoring the dark web constantly, and it's just really interesting because again, these are humans, so there's a psychology aspect behind this as well, and so it's fascinating to me just to watch how some of the things unfold and most of time it has
nothing to do with our technology, but they're just a customer. And yeah, it's really interesting that it's kind of watching the Spy movie sometimes of how everything gets pieced together and what can end up happening as a result.
Yeah, so what's the Is it being a big steep up and investment into the AI space.
Absolutely, yeah, one hundred percent. So we've got a few different categories and within our solutions, if you're a customer then they automatically get turned on and so it's some
different tag names. Not to get into too much detail of the technical pieces of it, but it's precision AI, so we've actually that's our term that we've trademarked, and from a generative AI perspective, then it's making sure that you are able to understand exactly where things are coming from and that not only the integrity of the AI
is correct, but also that it's secure. And so those are the things in that we also talked earlier about cloud and developers and that whole piece that's happening, and within the solutions and tools that we have around AI that is also doing an automation piece in that too, because you'll know a lot of developers that are grabbing
things to develop now through AI. So we're making sure that that's secure and that's been run through all of our runtime technology so that you can be safe and secure around that.
And so it's just an expectation of them now as well from companies right that they're using these tools.
Yeah, exactly one hundred percent. Because you'll hear people talk about with AI or generative AI specifically of that strategy leak versus learned. So some companies will say, I'm going to open everything up because I want my employees to learn, and we know it's coming and we know it's here, and then you've got. Other ones are like, oh, no, we're going to tighten everything down because we're afraid things are going to leak. Either strategy, you still have to
have a security piece in that. And so those are the conversations that we're having mainly with the business folks and then also with security as well. But it really is a concern more at the top table. I feel well, I shouldn't say more. That's not fair. Every security practitioner and security leader out there is concerned about it as well. However, however, I think because it's so prevalent, then it's much more
of an easier conversation to have with executives. And then what are we going to do about it?
What is I want to see a graph on how much more how many more times that's appeared on board papers and that type of thing.
Yeah, exactly, And we have it's an AI security posture assessment. So we can go into an organization and say we're going to run some tests and diagnostic through and go and do something and basically be able to come back and say this is your security pasture from an AI perspective.
A couple of years ago, there was about a million new Zealands who had their data stolen through a cyber breach. It was a leaning company, personal owned company. How well placed and how much will wake up call do you think that was? And how well placed again do you think Australasian companies are for what's hitting at the moment.
I don't think that we are doing enough. I think that there are still some things that we need to tighten up around our controls and being proactive and those types of things. I think Australia is a bit ahead of us if you look at some of the regulation that they have around critical infrastructure, even some of the things that they've come out with proactively around AI. And we've got some good stuff too, don't get me wrong.
I just there are some things I think that we can still do to tighten that up in New Zealand. One thing in particular is because we've got quite a big presence in education and if I think about how that goes back to New Zealand Inc. Then what are we doing to make sure like that's something within our control because we've got a huge part of our business
that's within there. Just as an example, but it's going to always I think we always need to be thinking of every day when we wake up, we can do better. And so one of the things of Palatin Networks is our mission is to make the world safer today than it was the day before. And I think we have to constantly be thinking like that because what we think is good right now, even a year from now, if we were sitting here, we'd be We're going to be
talking about something completely different. And so that's how quickly things are changing.
Great, Well, we've covered heaps of ground here, thinks much. One last question, So if you had to summarize what you think should be top of mind from Vista's for listening, we're not thinking about cybersecurity, what would that be?
So one thing I haven't talked about. We do think twenty twenty five is the year of the browser. And what I mean by that is such a high percentage of work is done in a browser if you think about it. And part of one of the ways that we've addressed that is we acquired a company about a year ago and now it's been automatically integrated in so
we all use it as well. It's called Prisma Access Browser and it basically can tighten down anything so within your organization, if you have contractors or you've got BYOD. Basically whenever you're from a sharesse perspective to say, okay, we know that this is safe, this is secure whenever they're working on our stuff. Because we've locked down the browser in the past, that was kind of a bit of sprawl. So if I were an investor, I'd probably
be having a look around that. It's a big, big bat investor.
It's just something we just trust and use, isn't it exactly?
And that's the thing. It's Yeah, you're spot on. It's it's something that I think a lot of us trust our phones and trust all kinds of different things. And but yeah, just that secure your perspective, that's just something else to kind of.
Think about and get to.
Yes' a make sure your MFAF.
Thanks so much, Mossie. It's been a real pleasure having you here, and thanks for sharing with our audience. Thank you for joining us and everyone for tuning in. You can watch Shared Lunch on YouTube or follow us on your favorite podcast at Leave us a rating and a comment about what you'd like to hear about next. Enjoy the rest of your week.