You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. Welcome to Shapiro World and it's a special edition of Shapiro World. Normally on a Monday, today it's a Tuesday, of course, and that was a technical issue with me yesterday. But the reason it's a special edition is because David and I are joined by Wayne McCurry, who used to be a portfolio manager at F&B Wealth and Investment and the person that populated Wayne on Wednesday. The very, very popular podcast and...
It's now, of course, defunct. So it's a bittersweet day for me with Wayne retiring, but I think he deserves it. Don't you, David? No. No, I don't either. He's far too young. That's nonsense. Well, talking about… I think he's got other copies, but still. Yeah, exactly. I think the industry is going to miss a very valid and useful voice. And I must tell you something, Wayne, I was with Koki Koiman this morning. Yes. I was with Pete Major and we were doing a seminar.
They flew up for something this morning and they couldn't stop talking about Wayne. And then what was also interesting is that there was a young audience that was there and they kept asking, what about Wayne? Where's he gone? Where can we find him? And I even got some job offers for him. I don't think he needs job offers. The one bit of advice I got about retirement was the lifestyle is good, but the pay is not great. David, you were talking about Wayne's too young to retire.
And that brings us on to the other part of the celebratory nature of this podcast. I'm going to say it's 77th birthday yesterday. Yes. Yeah. So? So, I've started to get, I've been old, but now I'm really getting old. So, and when I looked at Koki and Pete, and I looked at all of us, I sort of, you know, we were all kind of, you can see that slower walk up the stairs, you know what I mean? No, but look, I mean, Shapiro, Lindsay and I have discussed this on numerous occasions.
I've known you forever. Lindsay's also known you for a very long time, and you look exactly the same as when we first met you. And in fact, Lindsay and I have speculated on this on more than one occasion. We think you look the same as you do now when you were born. It's almost a backhanded compliment, isn't it? You look the same as you have always, but for the first 40 years of your life. You look like a 75-year-old. But I don't think that's true. But anyway, congratulations to both of you.
And one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast was, A, to sign for Wayne to sign off, because he's explained to me how much his job committed him to media commitments. And that made me feel a little bit guilty. But nonetheless, I think he enjoyed quite a lot of them. But between you, you must have, what, 85, 90 years of experience? I don't know. Wayne, how long have you been in?
business i know david it's over 50 years what about you 35 years okay so we're talking david what are you up to 52 53 now since you joined the jsc yeah yeah but wayne's 35 were double mine you know so uh it was my my first few working years was as a accountant you know what i was trained to do you I was running orders on the floor, which wasn't what I was trying to do.
So you're both accountants, so there's a wealth of experience in the bean counting, but also in the trading side and the portfolio management side. So where did it start, Wayne? Tell us, because you're a Kimberley boy. Yes, I'm a born and bred Kimberley lad. And when I went off into the army in 1976, I went home.
one weekend on a weekend pass and I happened to go to my old school to watch a play that they had put on there and I saw a very beautiful young lady there that I didn't know who she was but I thought in for a penny in for a pound so I introduced myself and that was on the Friday night so I thought you know what do you do in Kimberley over the weekend in the 1970s and there wasn't many options so I introduced myself and said Would you like to go out to the drive-in?
Because that was about all there was available in Kimberley. And to my surprise and great delight, she said yes. Nice. So we went to go and see a really fantastic film called One for the Hippopotamus with Terence, Yule, and Bud Spencer. Okay. We're supposed to know who Terence, Yule, and Bud Spencer are. Who are they? A lot of people wouldn't know who they are, but they were spaghetti western guys, and they were absolutely awful. They were Italian. So these were the… What did they call them?
The Italian... Spaghetti Westerns. Spaghetti Westerns, yeah, yeah. They were spaghetti Westerns. But she came from Peter Maritzburg. So when I was heading towards the end of my army career, her parents said to me, you know, would you like to move to Maritzburg? So I said, well, look, my dad's organized me a job on the mines in Kimberley. Can you get me a job in Maritzburg? So they said, no, fine, we'll organize it. And her dad was a banker.
manager he knew a few people in town so he organized me a job with the firm of chartered accountants and and i mean i only did accountancy for six months and standard six at school so i said well okay so i went for an interview and i was i got the job and i joined there and then they said to me you know what university are you going to study through so i said you study yeah they said yeah yeah yeah so um i went to unita And, you know,
and that's how I ended up becoming a chartered accountant eventually. And then I came up to Johannesburg and I joined the predecessor of the predecessor of Momentum First Rand. It was a company called LifeGrow. And a good friend of mine there, a good friend of mine there was the chief. I was an accountant there. He was the chief admin guy in the investments division. I mean, Shapiro will know this so well, where the Greg Blank story happened. That was 1989, wasn't it?
Yeah. And one of our portfolio managers was involved in this. And he left. And this good friend of mine from the admin side said, please, won't I come and help him on the admin side in investments because of this whole turmoil with this portfolio manager leaving. So I went and helped on the admin there. And a very tragic set of circumstances, the chap they hired to replace him as a portfolio manager actually committed suicide in our building.
Ow. And the head of investments, Peter de Tooy, who I still see regularly. I, in fact, saw him last week. A lot of it went out for our annual year-end lunch. Peter de Tooy asked me. Won't I please come and stand in and help with portfolio management? And that's how I ended up in portfolio management. And did you take to it like a duck to water? I mean, could you apply your accountancy skills to portfolio management? Are they interlinked?
I mean, I imagine they are because David was an accountant. You try to, but they're actually two very different fields. Accountancy is far more stable, if you could like to put it that way. It's far, you can learn accounting. You can't learn investments. Yeah. And from then on, you stayed with what is now the First Round Group and just moved from place to place. Well, I stayed in more or less the same place. The company's name just changed quite often. Okay. David, you're the same.
You've been with one firm. You changed once, didn't you, David? I did change through mainly because through the… We were taken out. Our firm was bought out by Societe Generale, who split the firm into two divisions, a retail and an institutional division. I was with the institutional division, and the French were all over the place. And this was when they, although they had bought us, very difficult people to deal with.
And after the internet bubble burst and markets collapsed, they decided it was enough. They didn't want to be in emerging markets. They sold out of Singapore. They sold out of Brazil. They sold out of all emerging markets, which included South Africa. So I was at a loose end, and I said, you know, I've had enough. There was deregulation. I said, I just want a little office, and I want to sit there and build up clients.
And that was in the early 2000s. I went back to… what was what is today sasfin and alan greenstein was there was such a mess things were so bad that um you know he couldn't give me a job and i floated for a year and a half too i don't want to i don't want to even discuss it because it was an awful part of my life but but i mean just it was unsettled part and then after about two and a half years i came back and they offered me they said okay you're on the radio do our publicity you can have the
50% of the income you produce. So 50% of nothing equals nothing. So I never had clients. I literally had to start one by one by one. And that was almost 20 years ago. And so, yeah, I've enjoyed it. But it's, you know, youngsters don't know what it's like to build up a client base one by one by one. So tell me about your client base. And sorry, Wayne, this is interesting to me because I haven't heard this before.
Was it individual clients you maybe went to, the Jewish community, people that you know, and people that know you? Because Wayne and I often, don't we, Wayne, we talk about Shapiro. It's mainly about two things, how gregarious. Wayne, before we get to you, David, we talk about… Before David carries on, before David carries on. Yeah, go on. Shapiro knows everyone. You go… anywhere with Shapiro, you'll know a few people. Lots of people know Shapiro, but I can tell you one thing.
Yeah. All the girls know Shapiro. Because he's a pest. No, not at all. He's such a charming man. That's funny. The one thing I always joke about the Jewish community is dealing with them is that They never want to pay you fees. You know, that's the whole thing. They've always got to negotiate. We'll get to the other reason that we... I'm just kidding. I'm just saying. It was the base, but... But it wasn't just institutional clients that you got. It was just high net worth individuals.
I want to tell you something which is so relevant and it's also indicative of the country. Because I knew some people in the institutional market and I would go and speak to them and they would say to me, I'm sorry, we can't give you business because you're white. We've got to give it to black economic power. I said, but I'm by myself. That's my business. I mean, that's me. I'm only a one person business. Even though I was part of SASPEN and that.
So I decided in an institutional business, in other words, to. To go in that direction was very, very difficult because of the huge requirements that they were putting on you. And I couldn't fulfill that. You know, literally, it was me. And even today, there are only five of us that run my particular division within SASFIN. And it's big. You know, when I say we've built up a very, very solid base, and it's a large business today, and a lot of that came because I made the switch offshore.
very early stages. You know, we started investing outside as soon as they started to ease exchange controls. And so it gave me an advantage over a lot of other divisions. But that was it. So, yeah. I would have thought that, again, from anecdotal evidence from both of you, you both stayed loyal apart from a brief period of you, David, going off and having a bad time of it. But coming back now, and thank goodness you did. But...
Because of the regulations and the rules and the paperwork and the bureaucracy involved with switching companies, people don't do that anymore. They get embedded in a company because I would imagine, Wayne, you did very well and there would be certain people you would speak to and say, well, look, Wayne, you might have said hypothetically, I'm moving to this company. Will you support me? And that person would say yes. And the same with you, David.
But you said you can't do it because it is an onerous experience. Yeah. Look, I know a good few people. people that have set up their own shop, two people in particular, and it is horrendous. You actually got to, obviously, you must be qualified as a portfolio manager and have all of those things, because certainly when David and I started, it was nothing like that. But I mean, that's not the end of the world to pass those exams, quite honestly.
They're very reasonable exams, and that's not too onerous. But the only way you actually can do it without killing yourself with administrations to do what David's done is you essentially join a company with all the compliance and all the ledger and everything done as a portfolio manager. Then you essentially just enter into a. a profit sharing arrangement with this other company. So even though you're running your own business, you're essentially piggybacking off someone else's license.
It's in fact the only way you can do it. And compliance today, Lindsay, is you have no idea how, what sort of draining it is. You know, in the olden days, we used to have maybe a compliance officer. Today, You have no idea how many people are in compliance and on in fact at the moment the most annoying thing that's happening to me I keep getting these These emails to tell me to do my crypto Not crypto.
Sorry cyber cyber training My training job and I'm a And it's one course of the other and they get cross because they do compliance point of view fulfill that i have to do it otherwise i get the firm into trouble yeah david obviously works for a bank same as i worked for a bank and one of my true pleasures two weeks ago whatever it was i got a letter saying you have to complete your you have training to complete it and i could just reply back and say i'm retiring
in two days time so you have the true highlights is that i forced the same as david asu You've got training to complete. I could just reply back. And I'm going to finish it by the end of November. And I've said I'm retiring the end of October. Thank you very much. So you had to sit in the class with other people, presumably of all different age groups and all different backgrounds, to learn about cybersecurity or something. All of our training was online. Oh, I see. Okay. No. No, I'm not.
What a world. So I'm going and... poppy and all of these things yeah it's it's it's probably right and probably justified but it was it was it was it was a lot of a lot of hours you had to put in and yet with all this compliance and all this regulation you know it doesn't stop the ponzi schemes it doesn't stop no any of this no everything we'll we'll come to what's changed in a moment yeah but just very briefly Because I don't want to get this,
I don't want to go on a love fest nostalgia trip here, but you've obviously got respect for each other. Where did you first meet? Was it, I mean, I can remember you being on TV up until a few weeks ago. I can't remember now. But anyway, you're always on that show with Julieta Tlevi. And that was always good fun. But where did you first meet? At a conference or something? David? I don't know. I don't know. I just knew. I remember we were in the 90s. It was early 90s. Yeah. Wayne was with RMB.
He was a portfolio manager there. And always clever. I've got to say there's something about Wayne. Here we go. There's one thing that, no, no, this is not, you know what? No, I like this. The thing that people miss is that Wayne has got the most incredible brain. Julietta will ask him a question and he'll just sit there and I'm saying, oh, God, how am I going to answer this one? And Wayne will just say, there are three points. I said, how do you know there are three points?
You know what I mean? Where do you get this from? And methodically, he'd go through number one, number two, number three. You know, I'm still grasping, saying, oh, God, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to answer this. And he had that one, and I mean it, you know, he had this incredible, clear, and thorough line of thought, whatever he answered, you know, everything like that. Well, thanks for that, David.
But, I mean, just as another comment, Lindsay and I have also discussed your knowledge base. And we also say, you know, he's actually quite smug in his knowledge. I claim the fifth on this one, by the way. And I'm saying that's what people love about Wayne and what they can do. Because the one thing, if I may say, about the two of us, there was never, I don't think on any show either Wayne... or myself wanted to brag.
You know, you never wanted to show we were cleverer than the rest and kind of quote earnings to the fourth decimal point or try and brag, you know, use words that no one could understand and fancy language. Now, look, that's one thing I learned in investments at a very young age. There's two ways you can be an investment person. You can either be, you know, have a lot of hubris.
Be very arrogant about your knowledge base and how good you are, but that you soon fall short on that because, quite honestly, in investments, no one's a genius. Everyone makes mistakes and plenty and plenty. Or the other way is you talk in normal language, you try and explain things, you don't talk down to people, you know, I know what I'm doing, you stupid, so therefore you must give me your money so I can invest it for you better than what you can do that.
So, I mean, it's always been my sort of approach to clients and to the, you know, the general audience is you don't have to impress people how clever you are. You've got to. Your primary objective is to explain things logically that people can understand. Yes, and you do that very well, which is why, as I said, this is a bittersweet podcast that we're conducting now because I won't have this again.
But David, just to embellish the point that you said, on a Wednesday, when I say getting ready for Wayne on Wednesday, I've read a bit during the day, etc. But I'm not really sure what the format of the program is going to be, the podcast is going to be, because I know... that Wayne is going to come up with something. I'll say, well, what about platinum group metals? What about the tech sector on the NASDAQ, et cetera? And he'll come up with it.
I'll go make a cup of tea, get myself a biscuit, come back, and he's still talking. I don't need to be there. It's almost just a few Wayne. That's also one thing that I've also understood in my investment career. Between David and myself, and there's one other individual, chap who works for a very, very well-known asset management company who also heads their offices in Melrose Arch. Very well-known, big asset management company.
If you take the three of us, you should never be short of words because we can wing it, we can swing it, we can waffle away forever on many, many subjects. I didn't want to say his name. I love doing presentations with Kevin because you can sit back. Is he still standing? Yeah. Is he? He's a great economist. I really enjoy his stuff. But he reduces his views, yes. He said, whenever you invite him for a conference or to speak, you've got to give him an hour and a half.
And he'll tell you, listen, I can't do it in less than one and a half hours. I can't do it in less than one and a half hours. Be prepared. But everything he does is easy to understand. His charts are one-line charts, and he gets to the point. But very enjoyable. But Wayne, yeah, you've got to give him one and a half hours. You've got the okay. We've got the Mutual Appreciation Society. I'm in the middle of it.
But one thing I will say, David, is that despite the fact that Wayne talks a lot, and when I say a lot, a lot of sense. And also at the end of our programs, which will come to a moment, we talk about food, but that's another matter. But your name often comes up. Firstly, and we've already mentioned this, or Wayne has, you are a well-liked individual. And ladies apparently enjoy your charm and the fact that you know how to talk to a woman. But the other thing is, is the way you dress.
Now, Wayne won't mind me saying this. He buys his clothes from Pick and Pay. Yeah. And. And he'll say, I don't care, Lindsay. I'm going into my garage, my factory, for my other hobby. And I don't need to look natty, but Shapiro is walking down Fifth Avenue and going into Giorgio Armani or something like that. Shapiro is a natty dresser. He's natty. But I'll tell you two very quick stories about Shapiro. Shapiro and I once went on a...
We did presentations in Durban and we meet at OR Tambo here and we're flying to Durban and we're standing in the queue to board the aeroplane. And just in front of us was a group of young ladies, early 20s. And they were part of a percussion band called Chicks with Sticks. So they played drums and cymbals and that. And very, very pretty girls, you know, very pretty girls. Before we boarded the aeroplane. Shapiro knew all their names and their life history.
They're standing in the queue to go through the gate to get to the airplane. Yeah, chicks with sticks. And then we're at that Durban, and we were on the beachfront, and Shapiro and I got up early, so we said, let's, it was summer, it was lovely, let's go to the beachfront and go and find a coffee there. So we found a place that does skiing lessons. You know, the moms and dads drop off their youngsters to come. to learn to swim before... Surfing, surfing, sorry. Surfing, yeah.
Before school starts, they go surfing. And there was this very young waitress in a little beach outfit. sort of thing, whatever, but a pretty girl. And Shapiro and I were sitting. Within 10 minutes, this lady was sitting next to Shapiro, and every other patron there didn't get a cup of coffee or a toasted sandwich for the next half an hour. If Linda Shapiro is listening to this podcast this evening, then it's all good natured stuff, Linda. Don't worry.
Look, I always tease David and say the reason why young girls like him so much. He's very much the grandfather figure. Ah, I see. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. The wise man with the twinkle in his eye. Yes, I see what you mean. Now, let's get on to the markets again, finally, before a quick food story from Wayne.
Wayne, when you sat down at your desk, when that tragedy occurred at your office, and it gave you an opportunity to become a portfolio manager, when you sat down at your desk, you had certain principles. that were instilled in you from the training that you'd had. And over the decades that you've been in the business, things have changed.
The dissemination of information, the screens, the products, the ETFs and everything, the proliferation of products and the complication of financial services and financial markets. The principles still must stay the same. No matter how many things change extraneously, the principles of investing are the same as when you first started. Yeah. Look, the biggest single change, obviously, what you invest in changes all the time and always will.
You know, shares go up, shares go down, sectors, new ideas, all of that. That's investments. So what really the fundamental change has been the dissemination of information. There you are. You know, you used to rely on magazines, the newspaper, but especially the brokers. You know, you've very seldom met company management. Now you.
get all that information yourself and it's readily available via sends by the company's websites i mean there weren't websites david will remember and he might even remember the chap's name in the early 90s there was you didn't have you didn't have a chart on your computer of the price of a share yeah there was a line i can't remember used to men yes chap used to manually draw it on graph paper and then photocopied and sent it to you each month.
So you had the last five years history of share prices. You didn't even have all of that. So the information is a lot more readily available, obviously, and there's a lot more analytical tools you can use, which you didn't have. But everything, so everything's changed, but everything has stayed the same. You know, Lindsay, my story, and when you talk about communication, I'll just... extend this very briefly.
When I went onto the floor, we used to deal with our counterparts in the UK through telex. I mean, it was very expensive. And if you, you know, where you had a direct line with your counterpart, so you were, you know, you couldn't afford too many lines. But we also used to use coded telegrams because there was no direct dialing. So there was a, the time that it took.
Even if we had a direct line, there was like a five-minute to ten-minute break before you sent a message through to your counterpart overseas and he came back. And if you sent telegrams, it was like 30 minutes. And then once they brought in direct dialing, it was, you know, you could just phone your mates on the London Stock Exchange and you got automatic, you know, it took away arbitrage. It took away the trading of price differences between those markets.
And that only came in 1978, direct dialing, where you can actually just pick up a phone and dial London and so on. And then, of course, as Wayne said, we had William Merola, who was in our library. William Merola would take the Star, the Brand Daily Mail, Financial Mail, or whatever publications were there, the Financial Gazette. There were quite a few publications, and he would go through it every day and cut out.
articles, cut them out and stick them in a file, an article or the results and so on. And then we'd have a separate file where we would keep the balance sheets. Now if you wanted that information, you had to come to our library to see it. And it was only well into the 90s that things started to change. In the early... Yeah. Yeah. We also had an extensive... We had a library with probably four or five staff members in it. And it... It took up huge floor space.
But our librarian was a sweet, sweet lady with one drawback. Every Friday lunchtime, she went across the road to the… New London. Hotel. And had a good couple of drinks there and came back. So if you wanted anything on a Friday afternoon after lunch, forget it. Wait till Monday morning.
You're bringing me, you're taking me back now, because when I was working for a commodity company in Sandton, the owner of the company, he'd go into his office and there were these big pieces of graph paper on his wall and he would come in every day and get the closing prices from the Chicago Board of Trade, et cetera.
let's say, for example, soybeans, he'd get his pencil, he'd sharpen his pencil, and it would be, he'd draw in a line, it was a bar graph, put in the high and the low, obviously, which was a vertical line, and then a little dash to the left where the market opened, and a little dash to the right of that line where it closed. And every single day he would do this religiously because, as you said, there was nothing on a screen. But David, David, I'm sure you'll remember there was this step.
who used to advertise, used to put little photographs in the financial mail and maybe the newspapers of him sitting outside under a sun umbrella selling this service. Man, what was the guy? I can't remember them now. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I know Trendline was what they called it. No, this was one individual. This was one? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Lindsay, we used to use point and figure. Yes. Yeah, noughts and crosses.
Yeah. So you needed, before you even plotted, it depended on what your scale was. You would only, if it was a three-point or three-point reversal or three-point, you know, so, and those were very difficult graphs to understand, you know, not the line graphs that we have today. And there was no such thing as a linear graph. Everything was, you know, purely sequential. There was no linear graph. So, you know, a hundred-point move off a base of a hundred shows the same as a hundred.
point move of the base of 5,000. Gentlemen, it's time for Wayne to sign off finally. I mean, he'll be back for a couple of interviews, I'm sure, over the years, but if we're still here, David and myself. But Wayne, what David and I do on a Monday, which is when normally Shapiro World is recorded, we talk about football afterwards and I know you're not a football supporter, but David, what Wayne and I talk about once we finish with the financial market nonsense. We talk about food.
Now, Wayne, you said you had your Christmas party a little bit earlier, in my opinion, but nonetheless, did you have a farewell do? And if so, did you do yourself proud with a really good feast? Well, my main farewell lunch is still coming up, but I do, however, have a very good food story to tell. Oh, good. All of my old colleagues from Momentum Stroke First Rand, there's a group.
of I don't know 12 14 of us and we go out to lunch regularly every year and now there's only one person of that group still working there were two but now there's only one person of that group still working so we went to an Italian restaurant in Pretoria this is about a week ago two weeks ago something like that your week ago and and it was recommended so we have one year in Pretoria because lots of chaps are based there and then one year in Johannesburg.
And we've been to some lovely places, make no mistake, but this year we went to an Italian restaurant just off the Garsfontein off-ramp, so it's very close to the highway. And I thought, Italian, okay, it's not my favorite favorite, but, you know, it's not my choice. It was the Pretoria contingent's choice. And we went there and the chap came through, the owner of the restaurant, and said, you know, here's our specials.
and everything and then he mentioned this t-bone steak that they put a salt and pepper rub on and then they grilled it in the pizza oven it was the most delicious ever because the inside was nice and sort of medium rare but the outside was crispy and well done with the salt and pepper rub on it and some other spices and stuff it was truly delicious i mean normally I'm not a big T-bone steak fan, because normally the non-fillet side can be a little bit tough. This was absolutely fantastic.
So we had, I mean, we had the most fun afternoon. I mean, that's really just reminiscing about, let's call it the old days, you know, when the company started. Now we all got together and, you know, other colleagues that we worked with, the successful ones and the not so successful ones. So it's a very memorable. occasion once a year. We'll be doing it now for a very long time and we'll hopefully continue to do it also for a long time. So it was really a nice afternoon.
But then the end of this month, I've got my... Even though I've stopped working, I've got my real farewell lunch coming up on the 29th. Hopefully you'll have an influence on where you go, maybe the Troiwool Hotel or something like that, Wayne. What do you think? We're going to a place like that, but not the Troiwool. The Troiwool is an absolutely magnificent place. I mean, as we've spoken about on many occasions, the family of Nando's have bought the company, bought the Troiwool.
and they've really shaken the place up. It's very, very, it's really nice. And the menu is extensive. I mean, it's got one of the biggest menus I've ever seen. And no matter what you order on there, they say it's available. You don't worry, they've got it. Very good. Wayne, we've been speaking on radio and television and podcasts for so many years. Thank you so much for your unstinting support. And although it's a duty of yours, I know you do enjoy it sometimes as well.
So thank you very much and very good luck with your retirement and your cars and enjoying yourself. As for you, David, I'll be pestering you again on Thursday for the five o'clock shadow. And maybe in 13 years time when you're 90, you might actually retire as well, which will also be a very, very sad day and we'll get Wayne back to reminisce again. Conversation. because I've got three of my grandchildren running wild here because we're looking after them. We're halfway looking after them.
And I've got to find an excuse to not get out of this room. Sorry, your excuse has run out, David. You've had 35 minutes of it, so off you go and be a good grandfather, just like you are with the young ladies at airports. I must just say thank you very, very much, and I really appreciate it, David, as well, all the kind words. And I will also say that. I mean, we've had a lot of fun. We've had a lot of fun over the years.
And I mean, that is one of the things that I'm going to miss is talking to people about investments. And you never know what might happen into the future. But for now, you know, being out of the investment field and sort of not being directly involved in it, I think this is the best decision for me. But, you know, as you said, you never know what happens. Well, whatever happens, we'll be here for you, Wayne.
Wayne McCurry, formerly F&B Wealth and Investment, and now a gentleman of leisure, David Shapiro from Sastron Securities in Johannesburg. And that was a special edition of Shapiro World. The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and various contributors and do not reflect the policy, position, or opinion of any other agency, organization, employer, or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com.
Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other entity other than the speaker or the author. And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to change, revision and rethinking at any time. Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.