Episode 67: If in Doubt, Ask a Nurse!

with Sandra sham Plain. Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast, am employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, I'm

Sander Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. On each episode, will discuss the reasons we now know that our loved ones have survived physical death and so will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. My goodness,

have I had a good day. We're in the final stages of editing our first feature film, and it's called Rinaldi and it's about Sonya Ronaldi, who I interviewed on episode one of Shades of the Afterlife, and she has been experimenting and getting pictures and voices from people in the afterlife. So February twenty two is a data mark on your calendar. Be sure to go to We Don't Die dot com. We are going to be showing the film.

The good news is I have seen it. Well, actually i've seen it twice today, just final edits and things like that, and I was so moved and so inspired. Not only is her story, but there's obviously a lot of pictures and audios that have come through, and so many testimonials from mainly parents who have been reconnected with their children. So be on the lookout for that. You know, I'll tell you more. I can't help but talk about it.

Today on the show, you're going to meet Dr Penny sar Tory, who worked as an intensive care nurse for seventeen years, meaning she has worked daily with dying patients. She undertook the UK's largest and first long term study of near death experiences and was awarded a PhD for her research. She's the author of the book The Wisdom of the Near death experience how understanding NDSE can help us live lives more fully. Dr Sartory, Welcome to Shades

of the Afterlife. Oh thanks, Sandra, lovely to be here now, Penny. You did tell me I can call you Penny before the show started. What led you into discovering and researching near death experiences? Well, the thing that really sparked it all for me was when I was looking after a man in intensive care and he was clearly dying, and he had quite a prolonged death, and it made me

realize that we really don't understand death at all. But his death that night shifter that I was looking after him, really profoundly affected me, and it made me very upset. And I started then thinking about what does happen when we die? What is death all about? And I realized that we know very little about death, We know very little about the dying process. So I started to read about death, and then I came across near death experiences

and they sounded fascinating to me. I read one account and I was hooked in immediate and you know, they had such a wonderful, powerful message, and so I was really kind of gripped from the beginning and then I think my scientific side of me, you know, with my nursing training that was very scientific, it had kind of said that these are just hallucinations, it was just a

dying brain. But I became more and more curious and I read more about them, and then I started asking patients I was looking after if they'd had any experiences, and I didn't find anything, you know, in the beginning, but I thought, well, this is the ideal place for me to do my own research, and so it's kind of went from there, and so I got on board. Then I applied to the University of Wales and I

was lucky enough then to begin my own study. So I was really lucky and fortunate to have two great supervisors, Professor Paul Badham, who was a theologian and he is also an expert in near death experiences. And there's also Dr Peter Fennick, who was a neuropsychiatrist and neuro physiologist. So these were both my supervisors. So I had a

lot of great support, you know, throughout the whole of approacess. Sure, and let me just take a minute to acknowledge you for being who you were by so many patients bedsides My father uh died in two thousand ten and he had cancer and he was surrounded by the most loving group of nurses, and it takes a very strong, compassionate and loving person to be in that field when there's so much fear, there's so much pain, and just I really want to acknowledge you for being one of those

people to comfort both the patient and the family in that time of life. Oh, thank you. That's so nice to hear, because you know, it gets so busy in the hospitals and things, and I think there are so many great nurses out there doing such a great job and it's it's lovely to have that acknowledgement. So thank you for saying you're welcome. And was talking to someone not too long ago. Also, um, there are many physicians that that it's been said that they don't believe in

life after death. They're more of the there's no proof of life after death, that near death experiences are just hallucinations. And someone said, what who you really need to talk to is the nurses that are by the bedside, and they might feel a little bit differently. So it's just my honor to be able to have you today, so really, really wonderful. So what kind of things when you started um opening up this investigation into near death experiences? What

kind of things did you find? Well? I found quite a lot of things, really, because I was gathering the data for five years and then it took me another three years to actually write it up because there was so much data there and there were a lot of things that I came across and how people do have these experiences, and you mentioned earlier on that a lot of people kind of dismissed them as hallucination, and you do see a lot of patients who hallucinate in the

intensive care units. So what I did was that I did a comparison of patients who were clearly hallucinating and also patients who had the near death experience. And what I found was that both of these experiences were very different. So for the person who had the near death experience, they were adamant that this was a very real experience. It was realer than real, So this was a heightened state of awareness. It wasn't in any confusional state at all.

Now with the hallucinations, that was very confusional. And when I followed up to patients after a few months time, they could rationalize that they had been hallucinating and they were quite embarrassed by their actions. Now with the person who had the near death experience, they remained adamant that it was just as vivid in their mind, and it was a very real experience, and they said that unless you've experienced it for yourself, there is no way that

you could understand what the experience is like. So there were very clear differences. And with the hallucinations as well, when I investigated them in depth, they were all attributable to what was going on in the background as the patients were reviving and coming around from their sedation. It was things that they could hear going on in the background. But with the near death experience, it wasn't due to things that were going on in the background, So there

were clear differences there. I have had my share of wine and Margarita's, and yes, I can't clearly remember things and and although they seem real at the time. And I've talked to many people that have had the near death experience, and one thing they compare it to is when we wake up in the morning and you've had a dream that seems so real, but you wake up in the morning and you say, oh, that was just

a dream. Many people the best words that they can describe the near death experiences where they woke up, whether they call it heaven or the hereafter or the other side, it was so real that it made our life on earth seemed like it was just the dream. Yes, it's quite consistent that sort of report amongst people as well, and it's kind of like an experience that is beyond

any other human experience. So there's no words to describe this experience, how wonderful it is, and what a lot of people report feeling is just pure unconditional love that they've never experienced in their life before. And in fact, this can be so overwhelming for the people that they become very emotional. And I've spoken to grown there and who have just broken down in floods of tears at the memory and the recall of this wonderful experience that

they had. So it's a very profound experience. It's something that remains very much etched into the minds of the people as well. In fact, I had a letter a few years ago from a lady who was in her nineties and she said, I had this experience when I was when I was a teenager, and she said, I told my mother about it, and she told me and not tell anyone ever about it. So she said, I never told anyone, but it's just as vivid in my

mind now as if it happened two minutes ago. They're amazing, Yeah, that's it, and it's so it's a very vivid experience and it stays with the person as well. And they also describe this great sense of unity as well, where we're all one, and particularly in the life review, some people have a life review during their near death experience and they can see literally the whole of their life played in front of them, and it's all going on

at once. It's it's kind of described as like a panoramic life review, and what they sometimes see is that they relive their life, and sometimes they can relive it from a third person perspective. So if they've been saying unpleasant or violent to someone, they feel like what it feels like to be on the receiving end of that. But also if they've been really nice to someone or just been kind in a way that they didn't realize, they feel like what it's like to be on the

receiving end. Of that kindness, and it's like a ripple effect as well, and very often they can see the ripple effect that their kindness has had on other people. And these are simple things that people don't really think twice about doing. It could be something as simple as holding the door open for someone, but that does have such a profound effect in a ripple effect sort of thing. So it really does have a really nice experience for them.

And sometimes they feel like when they have in the life review, that there's a presence with them, and they feel like this presence is acting more like someone who's comforting them. So if they're looking at, say, things that they're not particularly proud of that they've done in their life, it's the person themselves who is watching this life review who is doing the judging. The presence that's with them is acting as a comforter as well. So it's a

really profound, deep experience for these people. It's amazing. So is there a sense of judgment or made wrong or right? Not so much judgment really, it's more that the people themselves reflecting back on their actions and what they've done in their life, and they kind of think themselves, well, I could have done that better or I did that particularly well. It's that kind of thing. It's like a

reflection more than anything. And that's for a good advice for as we're living now, if we believe that this may be coming in our future, that maybe some of these things we can resolve now, that's right, I know, and you know, since doing this research, it's certainly had

a big effect on me. And I know back in the nineteen eighties, Professor Kenneth Ring he did a big study in to near death experiences and he found that he used to teach a course to students at the university, and he found that his students were actually changed in ways very similar to the ways that people who have a near death experience a changed simply through learning about the experience. And I've certainly found that to be true

in my life. Penny. We need to take a quick break and when we come back, we'd like to find out more from you about what you discovered with near death experiences and maybe a few stories. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network. Keep it here on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM

paranormal podcast network. Sander Champlain will be right back. We are happy to announce that our Coast to Coast a M official YouTube channel has now reached over three hundred thousand subscribers. You can listen to the first hour of recent and past shows for free, so head on over to the Coast to Coast a M dot com website and hit the YouTube icon at the top of the page. This is free show audio, so don't wait. Coast to Coast am dot com is where you want to be.

Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we are here with Dr Penny sar Tory talking about near death experiences. Penny, how has this discovery changed your life? So? Learning about near death experiences has really had a profound effect on me, and in fact, it's totally changed the way I perceived my life and it's made me. I've never been happier really since learning about musics.

That's really wonderful. I know for me, the more I hear these stories, the more I hear them from credible people, the longer time goes on hearing more and more, we really tend to believe them. Yes, absolutely, and that's what I think. You know, these people who have a near death experience have a very profound message for us, and I think there are so many arguments that's saying these suggest hallucinations, so they due to the lack of oxygen and things like that, but we are overlooking this very

important message that they have. And I think it's when we start to contemplate death and what it means to us in our own lives, that's when we start to really learn about life. And that's certainly been the case for me learning about this death. You know, a lot of my friends and family used to say, that's a really morbid subject. What are you talking about death all the time? For why are you researching this? But it's only since learning about death that I've really learned about life,

and to me, it's been a wonderful, enriching experience. There's a meditation and I don't know if it's the Buddhists or who it is, but it's it's like a nightly meditation about seeing their life come to an end, about dying and as morbid as that had first sounded to me, when you can really embrace death and that the body is going to disappear. There's a new access to living

life similar to this is just my belief. I've talked to many people that were diagnosed with cancer, and whether they went into remission or not, there was a new way of living life. There was a new way of um making amends with people, of going after their dreams, of saying things they hadn't said before. And if we can give people that gift right now just by listening to this, I mean, what an incredible life a person

might lead. Yeah, You've got a really good point there, because a very good friend of mine, she was diagnosed with cancer good few years ago and it really kind of shook her will totally. And I was chatting with her one day we met for coffee and she said, do you know, she said, this has actually been a gift to me, and it had made a really contemplate her life in ways that she'd never contemplated life before, and it had given her a completely different way of

living her life as well. Yeah, and there's so And I'm sure you hear this as well, that you've been by enough bedsides. I I hear stories that so many people have regrets and things left unsaid, are things they would have done differently, and fear and what would it be like to be by the dying patient's bedside with them feeling like they're going to close their eyes maybe

in that room, but opened them somewhere else. It's it's interesting that you mentioned that because I have sat with many patients who are dying, and sometimes you do see people who are agitated and fear full and distressed, worried

about things that they've done in their life. And I think having had the benefit of doing my research, it's really totally helped in the way that I care for these patients as they're dying, and if it's appropriate, I kind of mentioned about the research that I do and and I've tried to reassue with them, and in fact, it has helped quite a few patients well I've looked after and I think it kind of gives them something different to think about and and also makes them reevaluate

what they've been worrying about as well. You know what a gift that's a whole an other gift you are of people. Let me ask you a question. I've heard stories that moments before people's death, they see angels or they see loved ones or they become more alert and awake, or they might even raise their head and be talking. Have you ever experienced any of those stories? I have? In fact, I've I've witnessed that loads of times. And I'm sure they will be nurses listening to this, and

they'll probably have the same to say. And I can remember, oh years ago now when I on my very first day on the ward as a student nurse. I was sitting in having the report from the night nurse and she said, the man in bed six in that section, he'll be dead by the end of the morning. He's been talking to his dead mother since three o'clock this morning. And I looked around and I thought, are they trying to wind me up? Because this is my first day.

I looked around and everyone carried on writing as if it was quite a normal thing to say. So I got intrigued, and after the report, I went to this patient's bedside and I could see him kind of gesture into someone and calling out to someone or why I couldn't see. And I kept going back and forth to see this man throughout the course of the morning, and then it was about eleven thirty and he kind of

sat up. He got some energy from somewhere. He sat up and he outstretched his arms as if he was welcoming someone, and he had a big smile on his face, and then he just relaxed and lay back down, closed his eyes, and he'd actually died. So that was the first kind of deathbed vision that I had actually witnessed, But a lot of my colleagues at that time were quite used to seeing them, And then as my nursing career progressed, I used to see that more and more.

And in fact, as my grandfather was dying, we nursed him at home and he used to point to the doorway. Every time he used to do that, my grandmother used to get quite spoken because she thought that that was a sign of impending death. I used to run out, but he seemed very content and he was smiling as if he was really happy and wanted us to see who was there. And he did die a few days later as well, but he had a very peaceful and

comfortable death. So it's almost as if these people who are dieing do see dead relatives who come with the purpose of taken them away into another realm. Maybe, But I know there was another patient in my study and it was on a night shift, and my colleagues called my attention to him and they said, look, we'd called his family in because he was expected to die. And it was about four am and his condition had stabilize, so the family said, oh, we're going to go home.

We're really tired now. So that he went home. It was about ten minutes after they had left, and he started communicating with someone and he had this really big smile on his face and he was like yeah, and he was just mouth in the words what are you doing here? And having a conversation with someone we couldn't see, But that was observed by all of my colleagues now. The following day, when his family went back to visit him, he said to them, during the night he had been

visited by his dead mother and dead grandmother. But he said, I can't understand this, and he said, my sister was with them. What was she doing with them now? And beknown to him, his sister had actually died the week before, but no one had told him. The family didn't want to tell him because they didn't want to set back his recovery and upset him, so he didn't know that his sister died, but she appeared to him in the night with his mother and grandmother. If that's not validation

or give someone a hope that that's beautiful. It just put goose bumps down my spine with that one. There was a woman that I know, her mother just passed away. She was in critical care and hadn't spoken or moved her eyes, and just moments before she died, her head lifted up and she looked around the room and with a big smile, she said hello, hello, hello, and she was speaking to those that she must have seen, and then her head went down, closed her eyes and she

passed away. Oh wow, Oh that's lovely. Yes, it is so nice to see that as well. And you know, another thing that interests me as well. I was chatting to a hospice consultant doctor. She had many years of caring for patients as they were dying, and I was telling her of my interest in near death experiences, and she said, you know, it's funny that the most peaceful deaths that she witnessed were from people who had previously

had a near death experience. So it's as if they really don't know what to expect, you know, and they have absolutely, no anxiety and no fear of death at all. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Let me ask you a question about our deceased relatives. When people have had a near death experience, the people that you've researched, do they say that their loved ones were there? Could people see people or maybe not? Always? Yes, they could. That was quite

a common thing really in my research. A lot of the patients did actually see family members and they sent them back. They said, what are you doing here? You shouldn't be here. You've got to go back. And you know that the patients were very happy where they were. They wanted to stay there. It was peaceful, it was painfree, it was comfortable, and they wanted to be there with their dead relatives. But the relatives said, no, it's not

your time. You've got to go back. In fact, some people are quite disappointed as well that coming back into life. You know what some of that. If there's no fear, if there's unconditional love, if you're reunited with those you've loved, I can understand that. Oh no, I'm happy right here, that's right. Yes, absolutely, do people claim that their loved ones look the same. I've heard people say that they're younger.

Sometimes that's right, they are they Sometimes, you know, if they've had an ailment, or they had illness prior to their death, and perhaps they've lost a lot of weight and everything. Well, they say that when they see them in the vision type form, they've completely changed. They look younger, they look radiant, they look healthy, and they look happy. And one of the patients in my study, actually he

had a very interesting experience for two different reasons. Now, he met up with a dead relative and he said that she looked really lovely, she looked really happy, and she looked radiant. And what was really interesting about his experience is that she said, you've got to go back now. It's it's not your time. You're the head of the family. You've got to go back. But when you go back,

can you give this message to a living relative. So when the patient revived, he gave this message to the living relative and she was absolutely the astounded that he should know this information. It was something that she had gone to great lengths to keep a secret from him. Yet he found out this information during a time when

he was deeply unconscious. So that's something that we can't really understand so something profound happened during that time when he was unconscious, and he gained information in ways other than through the senses. So that to me was a really important case. Penny, I was just talking not too long ago on one of the shows about a man

who kept having dreams. It wasn't a near death experience, but it was after his father passed and he kept having dreams that his dad had come to him and told him that he had five thousand dollars in cash hidden in his top dresser drawer. And sure enough, when the man opened the top dresser drawer, dad had a stack of magazines and in one of the bottom magazines he opened it up, there was an envelope with five thousand dollars in cash. So it's absolutely amazing what can

come from experiences from the beyond. So let's go into our next break and when we come back, we'll see what other things you have in store for his Peggy. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network, the best afterlife information you can get. Well, You're Shades of the Afterlife with Sander Champlaine Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we are with

Dr Penny's or Tori, talking about near death experiences. Penny, from all the research you've done over all these years, what happens physically in the afterlife? Do we still have our five senses? Can we still here and smell and taste and can we hug? Yes? Some people do, Um. Some people have had these experiences, not in my hospital research, but people who have written to me over the years.

They have described actually hugging loved ones. And you know, I've I've I've asked them does it feel real, like a solid person, and they some of them have said, yes, it does feel solid. Some people can smell smells associated with them, like, for example, their favorite perfumes or flowers that they particularly like, and in fact, this is quite common in something called after death communications, and that is

another thing that interests me. UM. Some people have reported having they can actually see their deceased loved ones, They can feel them, they can smell their perfume. They may get something symbolic as well, something like seeing a butterfly out of season or a rainbow, something that has significance to someone and it often gives the person then great comfort knowing that they loved one is kind of given some sort of message for that to them as well.

I think it's easy for the skeptical mind to justify that that's not possible. I'll tell you what, I think. Our minds here on Earth really can be our worst enemies sometimes, you know, we can find evidence for whatever it is we want to believe in. And you know what I like to remind people is around us is this miraculous world. You're in the UK, I'm in the United States, and we are able to speak without any wires connecting us right now. You know, I have nothing

connected to my computer, and somehow we're connecting. We have around us this virtual world called the Internet, and we're able to pick up wirelessly in this invisible world. And it's my personal belief that if this invisible world can be real, heaven can also be real with our loved ones existing in a place just invisible to our eyes, but that they're there. So we need to sometimes get out of our own thinking that you need to be able to see it, feel it here it, smell it,

or touch it for it to be real. When around us there are some invisible things that are very very real. Yeah, you know, we kind of just don't understand these things, you know, So it's it's no reason to discredit them because they do have a powerful effect on the grieving process that from you or so, Yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of their therapeutic benefits to these experiences,

and it would be wise to take more notice of them. Really, would you speak a little bit about that, maybe what you feel the difference would be After studying near death experiences and the grieving process, I think what we need to do really is incorporate these into our education because there are so many people who are kind of skeptical or not necessarily skeptically. They just have preconceptions that they know that these are hallucinations and that's all it is.

But it's not. You know, those are my preconceptions before I started my research, and yeah, and and doing my research is has just opened my eyes because I've witnessed things during my role as a nurse looking after patients

who are dying. And I think we really do need to take more notice of these, and I think people are taking them on board now, they are noticing them more and I think like grief counselors, for example, they do recognize the therapeutic benefits of understanding near death experiences. And I know a friend of mine was going to grief therapy and her counselor had suggested that she read accounts of near death experiences, and she did this, and they did have a big effect on her grieving process.

It did help with it, you know, it did help her to work through that loss of her loved one. So I think it is important that we take notice of these. Yes, I do too. Any words from those that have experienced the near death experiences or people that have written to you about what they feel. The reason

for life is life here on earth. It's almost as if we kind of developing and growing ourselves, really, you know, it's it's about growth of our true self and having different experiences so that we learn from these experiences and we can be the best person who were meant to be. Really,

that's wonderful. Has there been anybody who or any commonalities of how they described whether they call it have then or they hereafter, Well, they tend they tend to be influenced really by the person's upbringing and their culture, and so a lot of people kind of they followed the same themes, but it's mainly the things that are in

the person's cultural background and their upbringing. So for example, people in the West are more likely to see images of Christ or beautiful gardens with lush green grass, vividly colored flowers, and perhaps people in places like the Philippines. A colleague of mine her grandmother had a very deep near death experience many years ago, and she said that she had an arduous journey up a big mountain and it was very difficult. It was a struggle to get

to the top. But when she got to the top, she met this man and he had a white flowing robe on and it was a wonderful experience and it completely changed her life, you know. So there are differences according to the culture of the person. And for example, people in India they report seeing a man called Chit who is the man with the book, and it's a book of the deeds, and it's the deeds of their life kind of thing, almost very similar to the Life

review in in some respects as well. So so there are very much cultural influences in how this experience is perceived. And again, you know, even young children have these experiences, and that particularly interests me because they have no preconceptions of death, you know, they don't know, and they haven't they don't discuss death. And one case, a particular least sticks in my mind. It features in my book The

Wisdom of Near Death Experiences. Is a young boy and his dad was working in the army base in Germany and his little boy got seriously unwell, had to go to the operating room for emergency surgery, and while in the operating room, he had a cardiac arrest and luckily

he recovered. He was resuscitated and he recovered, and a few months later his father wrote this letter to me said I couldn't under couldn't believe this when he said it, But he said, I was very shocked because I said to him on my day off, what you want to do? Should we go somewhere? And his son said, yes, I want to go to the park. And his father said that there was no park around. You know, he'd never taken his send to the park in Germany. So he said, well,

what park are you talking about? And he said the park that I went to when I was in the hospital. I had to get to it. I had to go through that tunnel to get into the park. And when I was in the park, there was a white picket fence and he said, I tried to climb over the fence, but there was a man standing behind the fence and he said, no, you've got to go back. You can't come in. And he said, I went back down the tunnel and I ended back in the hospital. Oh that's beautiful,

and so you know, it's a young boy. You know, how how can they have that kind of preakness? So they can't. I had spoken with a man who was feeling a lot of guilt that he wasn't watching his son, and his son got into a lake and ended up drowning, and then he was revived and I met him. I

met this man on an airplane. But what had happened is when the sun woke up in the hospital, he was happy to see his father, and his father was saying, you know what happened, And the little boy wanted to try to swim, is what happened, even though he was too young to swim. But he said, well what happened?

He says, Well, then I swallowed water, and then he described how he floated up and he looked down on the water and he says the big face was there, and the big face said it would be okay in big bright face, and that it wasn't time I had to go back to you, daddy, you know, and I just beautiful Penny. Has anybody reported like a hell or negativity or you know what, I'm asking the violence that

the bad stuff. Some people do get these, and it's a it's a very small minority of the near death experience, possibly depending on what research you look at, probably around about fourteen percent, So it's a very small number that people do get this, and these can be very traumatic for people as well. There's very in different degrees of

the distressing kind of experiences. The first type is where the person sort of interprets that they have the prototypical near death experience of going down the tunnel towards the light and meeting deceased relatives, but it's usually interpreted in a frightening way. Then you get the second type, which is described as like a void experience, where the person

feels like they're in this eternal, meaningless void. And then you get the third type, which is very distressing, where people feel that they're in hell or looking into hell, and that is very traumatic impact. A lot of people won't talk about it. So it's very difficult to research these experiences because they have such a profound and traumatic effect on people that they don't really want to recall

them and they don't want to share them. And in fact, some people feel like there's a stigma involved with it and say, why why did I have this unpleasant experience when so many people have a lovely experience? What have I gen wrong in my life? And so I think we certainly do need to do more research to understand

these so that we can support these people. But what I've noticed as well from my research is that some people they start off having this kind of distressing experience, but if they relax into it, it often turns into a very pleasant experience. So I can start off unpleasant, but it can then turn into a really wonderful, beautiful experience. I talked to one man, Penny, who tried to end his own life, and he experienced and not pleasant, but

almost that scary hell kind of feeling. What he took back with him was not the feeling that the afterlife was scary, but more so that it scared him enough to not try to do this again. So I think there's a like a higher intelligence going on, and maybe our minds are still connected because that silver cord has

not yet been cut. And then I also talked to another man who didn't lead a very good life, and he wasn't a very nice person, and he really experienced the darkness and fear and all those things, and instinctively he started to pray, and the white light that he saw, this little pin prick turned brighter and brighter and brighter and brighter, and so eventually he was filled with unconditional love. So the experience might be different for other people. And

I do think there's a higher intelligence involved. I guess it's the best I can call it. So we need to take our last break, and then when we come back, Penny, who knows where we're gonna go, we'll find out more about your stories. We'll be back in just a minute. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.

The Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children to a world of information, experiences, and ideas, and also can expose them to risk teach your children the basic safety rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything. Do everything for them. Okay, folks, we need your music. Hey, it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast AM and every first Sunday of the month, we play music from emerging

artists just like you. If you're a musician or a singer and have recorded music you'd like to submit, it's very easy. Just go to Coast to Coast am dot com, click the emerging Artists banner in the carousel, follow the instructions and we just might play your music on the air. Go now to Coast to Coast am dot com to send us your recording. That's Coast to Coast am dot com. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we are with Dr Penny sar Tory, author of

the book The Wisdom of Near Death Experiences. Penny, do you find with people that there's a commonality when they come back after experiencing a near death experience that they want to live a better life? Oh, definitely yes. It's it's all about being of service to other people and they realize that into connectivity, that unity, and basically they have a wonderful message, which is like treat others as

you would wish to be treated yourself. And it's not just something that they say, they actually live by that as well. You know, the their actions are very mindful towards other people. They're very compassionate as well. As a result of the experience, they're more tolerant, they're more loving,

they're very much changed as a result of the experience. Wow, and I love what you say that by sharing your research, it is possible for people to live this kind of life now as opposed to having to have a car accident or actually having a near death experience. That it's possible to live this now. Absolutely yes, And you know there's so many experiences so we could do all of these. Take a heat of what these people are saying, and even by acting like this being kind to other people.

There's so much research out out there to show that how being kind to other people has a very positive effect on our health as well. So you know, I think it's it's a really important thing to take on board. It's interesting you mentioned that about health. I've heard that before. And also I love watching or reading about stories where people make a difference with other people, or when people

find their passion or they achieve a dream. There is this sense of joy and inspiration that fills me, and I get the feeling of having like the goose bumps or goose pimples you might call them. But I can only assume that that good feeling has to be producing some good chemical something in my in my body. You know, it just has to be because it feels so good. I mean, we know the the benefits of laughter on the system, so I would think making a difference like

that would also. Absolutely. There's so many studies out there, you know. I teach a course at the university and it kind of touches on these things. How science, spirituality and health all blend into one, you know. And I think understanding about the effects that we have on the people through our actions can really impact on our health as well. And I think being kind and compassionate and living towards others is ultimately being a benefit to ourselves

as well. And it feels good, absolutely, yes. So Penny, where is your passion right now? I mean, what are you interested in studying? Learning? Sharing wealth? What makes you have these experiences? You know, I've learned so much from these people, and when my book came out, I've just been receiving so many hundreds of emails every day. For the first week or so, I had about two hundred emails a day. Now it's kind of tailed off to about sort of maybe a hundred emails a week now,

but that's still an incredible amount of emails. Oh my goodness. It is that there's just so many people out there we've had this experience, and it's almost as if they feel like they've had permission to talk about it now. You know, I really want to do more with this work because that's where my passion is. You know, it's completely gripped my life and it's really changed the way I lived my life, and so I want to do

more with this. That's why I that have gave up nursince so that I can concentrate on these experiences and

do more with this research. Well, I will definitely be your partner and sharing your book with as many people as I can, because I think there are so many people that may have had an experience, or even if they didn't have a near death experience, I think very often people have had an experience that they might have known who was on the telephone before the phone started ringing, or have had some synchronicities, or just or have had a visitation and a dream from a loved one, or

maybe we're with a loved one when they passed away. But there's something that's told them that life is more than meets the eye. And unfortunately, and a lot of our culture, we don't talk about it, so it's kind of a taboo thing. But meanwhile, so many people believe, and it's people like you and me and so many of the others that are saying, hey, this is regular, this is real, and it's allowing people to listen and

then to share. Penny. When when I first approached the publisher that I wanted to write a book called We Don't Die, I was scared to death that this man would think I am crazy. And also when I told my friends and family that this is the book, I thought everybody would outcast me. I thought there'd be nobody that wanted to buy it, and that I would live a hermit for the rest of my life. And that's how crippling fear can be. And then of course the

flip side happened. Everybody's interested and it's become easy for me to share. I may not be something for everybody, but that's okay, I say it, you know, with honoring people who they are. But if more people could not have the fear of what will people think if, you know, if they knew that I believed in this and I and I really applaud you for being someone who's acted like studying and sharing making a difference with others. And I think you probably live a good life, don't you. Yes,

certainly do, especially since doing this research. And it's interesting that you should mention about fear because having done this research has really made me overcome one of my biggest fears, which is speaking publicly. And it was a huge fear for me and I used to shake the first time. As I used to do it, I'd be on stage and I'd be physically shaken. I was that afraid of it. And having done this research now it's made me so passionate about the research that I'm not afraid of public

speaking anymore. Congratulations. But you know, there's, like Mary Anne Williamson says, you know, we can live out of fear, or you can live out of love. And when you live out of love, everything kind of goes the right way, then yes. And when you look at other people around and you just know it's just another one of you sitting over there, that we don't really have to be

afraid of others. Every single one of us has our own hopes and dreams and fear years and so all around you is just more people just like you, Penny. Our time is coming to an end. But I want to just ask, is there anything left unsaid or anything just sprung to mind? Is that also as well? Something that we don't really realize is that people have more control over the time that they die than what we realized.

And I noticed this a lot when I worked in the I c U, and that sometimes we had patients who maybe would hang on until a relative had traveled a great distance to come and meet them, had to come and see them, and and then after the relative arrived, they would die shortly afterwards. And some people as well, what I found was they would even wait for the family to leave the room before they died. So it's

a very unique experience. And there were many patients where the family had just kind of gone to the canteen for a quick coffee, and as soon as the family had left, the patient rapidly deteriorated. Even many times I had to run down to the canteen to get the family back, and during that time the patient had actually died. And so it's a very unique experience and it's down to us as individuals, and I think we have more control over that time than what we realize. As well.

That made me think about there was a nurse that I had spoke to that she said she'd open a window and often that that would make a difference with someone suffering that it was okay to let go. Yes, that's right, that's quite common. Really, we often do that, and even when a patient had died, we swopen the windows as well. It's almost like a tradition as well amongst some nurses. That is so beautiful. I know you're thousands of miles away, but just imagine that I'm giving

you a big virtual hug. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you really for just giving your life, for making a difference, whether it's being a nursing or now being one of the very few people that have taken the time to do all of this research and to share it so genuinely in a way that just makes a difference for other people. Penny, it just extraordinary. You will never ever well, no, let me take that back. What I was going to say is you'll never see the

difference that you've made with so many lives. But I'm taking that back because my prayer is that when you have your life review, you see the ripple effect of the difference that you've made with thousands and may then it might be millions of people that they are able to have a better life now and their family have a better life, better relationships and just a wonderful you know, create a little bit of heaven on earth. So thank you, oh,

thank you, Sandra. That's a beautiful thing to say. You're You're welcome. And now to find out more about you, you have the website Dr Penny sar Tory dot com.

That's correct, excellent, And I just ask if this interview has made a difference for you today, would you take one step and it might be in fear, and just share it with someone that you know that might make it might make a difference for And sometimes it's hard to approach the subject if you believe in life after death or this has inspired you, but just say, hey, I listened to something really great today. I don't know if you'd be interested in it, but have you heard

about near death experiences? This fabulous nurse Dr Penny star Tory has done all these studies and wow, I think you might really be interested in that. And sometimes just opening the door like that, somebody will say, yeah, that sounds great or no, that's not really my thing. But if you feel inspired to do so, I ask that you share. I know I certainly will, so, Penny, thank you again, thank you for taking the time to be here. Oh, thank you, Sandra, and keep up the great way. I

definitely will. And for our listener, our home basis we Don't Die dot com and there's so many things happening, you know, I said the beginning. Our movie premiere will be coming out in February, so keep an eye on the website. I'll be sure to let you know about that. On the bottom of the main page, you can join my email list and that will let you know everything that's going on. We keep in touch every week with a newsletter, and we have online courses and medium demonstrations.

Are world famous Sunday gathering that couldn't be more inspirational and motivating. Plus there's a free medium, reading within each and everyone, and remember it's tough being human. No matter what we figure out or discover about the afterlife, our minds our egos want to convince us that it's not real. So that's why it's important to continue listening to empowering things, talking to empowering people, reading empowering books, and trust that there's so much of a bigger picture that you or

I can't possibly know. But our loved ones are around us, They're cheering us on. We will see them again. Our life is for a purpose, So dig deep into what you're passionate about, start doing it, start sharing it. Ask for support if you need it. So in closing, my name is Sandra Champlain and I'm always so happy to be your host. You've been listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast AM

Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks again, and if you like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a m Paranormal Podcast Network.