Episode 58: Let's Get Physical

sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi. I'm Sandra Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been on a journey to the existence of life after death. On each episode, will discuss the reasons we now know that our loved ones have survived physical death and so will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. You know the expression if things seem too good to be true,

they probably are. Well, Today, I want to talk to you about physical mediumship and hear some words from Dr Jan vanders Andy, who's a physicist, professor and Wall Street analyst for over thirty years. He has described in detail evidence for life after death in his own book Life After Death. Some of the best evidence he has experienced

extraordinary phenomena. Now I know in the past I have told you about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who wrote Sherlock Holmes and he gave up Sherlock Holmes when he realized the reality of physical mediumship. These are people becoming real again through a substance called ectoplasm. Now, if you're new to this show, you might have the hairs on the back of your head standing up, like, what am I listening to right now? This seems a little bit crazy.

And I have to tell you, in my twenty five years of investigating, this was the last area and I was kind of afraid to explore it because I really thought it sounds crazy, absolutely crazy. And it wasn't until I had my own experiences, which I haven't told you about just yet. But having my experiences has totally transformed my whole view of reality and even talking about those terms seances and ectoplasm. There's a new Ghostbusters movie coming out soon, and you know that green, slimy stuff they

called ectoplasm. Well, Dan Ackroyd, who wrote the movie Ghostbusters and star in It. Comes from a long line of spiritualists, and after his great grandfather died, Dan's own dad found a chest filled with journals about all the sciences that were had, all the doctors and scientists who had attended them, and the people that would become real again in the darkness. So I think it's a good story to listen to and hearing from this physicist, I think it is just

what we need today. So Jan, welcome. It's a pleasure to be your sander, and thank you for inviting me. Oh, it's our pleasure. Where are you coming to us today? From Jan, I'm based outside of Los Angeles, where I've lived for thirty five years now. Very nice, But my experience has started back in the nine seventies, back in South Africa, and I'll go and talk to you about that, Indie Pail. Yeah, I'll have you to just start sharing your story because it's a different kind of take on mediumship.

Let me first quickly give a little definitions for your listeners. When we talk about mediums or psychics. There are two different types of psychics or two different types of mediums. Two simple ones are called mental mediums. These are also called channel ers, and these people act as an intermediary between the spirit world and a physical world, and they

will give messages. Nowadays, very few of them going to trans Most of them are wide awake and they will tell you I hear this, or I hear that, or I see this. You can watch TV. You can watch see the Long Island medium James from Prague and many others who perform on TV. You can see it. These are called mental mediums. They are very common. There are lots of them, and I've sat with many, many of them, and I'm sure as you have to, Sandra, and they

either go from very poor too very good. None of them are a hundred percent, but some of them are good and they give very good messages, and I'll mention some later. Then there are the types of mediums, and these are called physical mediums, and these are very rare. These mediums produce what they called physical phenomena. And that is what I'm going to be talking to you about today. You're gonna say to me, jan we don't believe them.

But i am going to tell you what I've experienced myself, what I've read, and the people I've spoken to when I've spoken and met many many mediums, and I was actually just focus Sandra about some of the ones that she knows are many of the ones that I've met. So we're going to talk about these phenomena. I'm going to describe, describe them to you and hopefully afterwards you'll say, hey,

there might be something to it. And Jan just interrupted a quick second, if you could just I know, I read it in your bio at the beginning, just a little background is what your career has been, because it just it helps to know that you're a reputable guy and a very smart man as well. But what career filled were you in. I am a physicist by training.

I have a PhD in physics, and I started I was a graduated from Sophomore College and I graduated from Cornell, who I got my master's even and then I went to South Africa where I did my PhD on diamonds. You know, that's a natural place to go to you on the physical properties of diamonds. And that's where I met my wife, and I met her and after three months we were married and actually, believe it or not,

we were married for forty five years. And if she passed away last year she went to the spirit world. When I met her, we were both very interested in is there something to life? I mean we were younger in early twenties. Is there something more to life? What happens when we die? And for five year old you know normally you got partying, drinking and doing those things. No, we weren't. What we did a little bit of that, but we were also interested in what happens to you

when you die? Is there something there? So what did we end up doing. We ended up going to some of the spiritualist churches in Jhannisburg. This is in South Africa. It's o very British there and in like I'm written, they have lots of spiritualist churches. For a Sunday there's a medium does mental mediumship and he gives messages. So we went to some of those, most of a terrible,

terrible messages, nothing really true. But we met some other younger people and we decided to form a developmental circle. So my wife and I and about five other people in their twenties who were also interested in the subject, we sat. We met once a week in a developmental circle. Will we sit and we hope that one of these sitters will develop into a medium. And one of them sort of did trance where trans medium is where he sort of goes into sleep and then somebody speaks through him.

So one of the sitters became a trans medium, and this was after several months of sitting. But he was so so and some of the messages were, Okay, you're talking about a sitting in a circle, could you just tell us a little bit what you do in that circle. That's a good question because people that you want to start it, you sit around maybe five or six seven of you. Ideally you sit there, you open with a prayer.

You normally do it in the dark because it's easier for the spirit entities to take over, and then you sit there for an hour and you meditate and what happens eventually somebody will how to get impressions or hopefully was that would be fantastic if somebody goes into trance and they and they go into a sort of a sleep and they start talking. Like Leslie Flint, the very

famous medium. The first time he went to a developmental circle, he fell asleep and he started talking already, So that that's extremely rare, but it happens so that's what you do in a circle. You meditate for an hour every week. At the same time, it can take frustratingly long before you get results, but if you do get him there unexpected and phenomenal. Anyway, So my wife and I sat

with these group of people at that time. We just moved from one apartment to another apartment after we're married, and we needed some pine furniture and not Its an interesting story. This is how got involved. Now, across from the university in South Africa where I was doing my PhD, there was a little pine furniture store. And not having a lot of money, being a student and my wife,

you had a simple job. We went there and we looked for some pine furniture, pine tables, some pine chairs, and there was two elderly people owned the shop and they helped us. So I sat down at one of these years. I said, boy, these are hard. This will really keep us awake when we sit in our little seance. And the store owner said to me, oh, you sit in seances. I said yeah. I thought it was a big shot. I said, yeah, we sit in the developmental

circle and we're developing a medium. She said, oh, that's interesting. She said would you like to come to a seance? My wife and I said, looked at her, said of course we would. Her name was Sarah and her husband's Mickey. They were both in their sixties and they owned the shop. So two weeks later we come to their house and two people there, one of the two of the people they are One of them was professor Allen, he was the professor of anatomy at the university, and his wife

and two other people. So there were six of us and Mickey and Sarah. So we walk into this room where they take us totally blackened out, the windows totally covered with black sheets. In the corner where two chairs with and you can pull a curtain in front of them. So they sit in the corner and a little bit in front of them is a curtain that pulls in

front of them, and the door was also sealed. When everybody sat down, there was a red light above us, and then one of the sitters turned the red light. Also we're sitting there in total darkness, and in front of this curtain which was closed with it. That was in front of Mickey and Sarah. On the floor is something we call a trumpet. It's not the kind of trumpet. It's more like a megaphone. You know, you're seeing these things at football games with these cheer leaders shout through

these megaphones. But this is a small version of a megaphone. It's about a foot and a half high and about a diameter of about four inches at the bottom. But it was luminous paint on it, so you could clearly see it's sitting there like it's turned out. And we sit there and after about say, about two minutes, and entity starts speaking from sort of behind the curtain, to the side of the curtain, and it's a your voice of a young man starts talking to us, and he

in trainee, welcomes us for being there. Had an American accent, which makes you said, obviously, weren't there a South African with a retypical South African accent. He starts speaking to us, welcoming us and hopes we enjoyed the sitting, and he talks to the other people who he knows, and he

laughs a bit with them and make some jokes. And his name was Brian and he turned out to be He was a young American who died early nine hundreds and he was buried somewhere up state New York, which Professor Allen when he was in the US once confirmed.

Then Brian said, okay, let things happen and start. So he said, okay, we were wondering what would happen, and all of a sudden, this trumpet, this megaphone starts flying around the room like he does, flying all around up to the corners and came right in front of us with tap us on the head, with tap us on the knee, and we'll do that to everybody, and we'll

just fly around for several minutes. Didn't hit anything, and this isn't pitch darkness, And all of a sudden stops right in the middle, right in front of that black curtain. It stops there, and an entity starts speaking through a lady called maybe I remember very well, with a German accent, heavy German accent, started speaking to us, and she talked the sort of philosophy about the purpose of life and

what we're doing in life and things like that. That was quite quite fascinating, and uh, I mean we were dumbfounded. I mean we we've never experienced this. Of course, my first reaction is it's fraud, But then you think about it. How the hell does this thing fly up to the ceiling, to the corners of the room in the pitch darkness without hitting anybody? You know, I thought it might have been Nicky doing holding it, But how does he do that? See? And we have to take a quick break, and I'm

very excited to hear what you're about to say. Next. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast, a m paranormal podcast network. Don't go anywhere, there's more Shades of the Afterlife coming right up. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we are here with physicist Jan Vander Sandy talking about his first experience with physical mediumship. Jan, you're talking about the seance in South Africa where different

entities spoke and a trumpet flew around the room. What else happened? So a few other entities came and spoke to us, and that was the first sitting we had with them. Professor Allenden said to me, Janny said this is real. He'd been sitting with them for years and he said, Jan, this is totally genuine. It's not them doing this. You can hear all the different voices that came and spoke to us, and then this trumpet flying around the room. I said, but how does this trumpet

fly around the room? He says, Oh, all that has to do with ectoplasm. And now we get into the real physical phenomena. Real physical phenomena are involved when we're dealing with ectoplasm. It's an interesting substance. It was actually called actoplasm by in nineteen o five by a professor Riche who was a professor in France of professor of physics.

They actually won the Nobel Prize and it was actually analyzed ectoplasm by several famous scientists and professors in nineteen six And ectoplasm basically consists of what the body consists of cells nine oxygen. It consists of those kind of things. What it is is is a white substance. And I'll describe how to you how I saw it the first time, because we became very good friends with Mickey and Sarah, and we ended up by the way, sitting with them for eight years. Every time we sat with them, and

in the beginning was quite often. Afterwards, when they were getting older, it became became less and less frequent, but every time we sat with them, by the way, this trumpet would fly around the room. Sarah would always go into trance, and his anthony Brian would always talk to us. But one of the sittings, they said, Jen and my wife Marlene said, we're gonna have a surprise for you. They invited one of their friends called Kitty Gordon. Kitty

and Max were friends of theirs. They were they were where she was already in her late sixties early seventies. She used to be a materialization medium and she had stopped because she was getting old. And they've been doing it for three forty years, so they said, you know, she really stopped, but she agreed is one time to

come and sit with us. So Mickey and Sarah would sit behind the curtain in the room and this lady Kitty was sitting next to them, and this time they turned the red light on and then Kitty went into trance, and all of a sudden, this ectoplasm started pouring out of her nose and it went down over her body onto the floor, and it was still attached to her nose, and he just kept on pouring out of her nose and then just on the floor. It looks like silky

cheese cloth. It is a fluid because it was flowing, and when it was on the floor, Sarah wasn't trance. Brian came out and said to one of the sitters, told him to pick it up, because you can only touch it when they tell you to. He told the one of the sitters to pick it up at the corner, to hold it up and to walk across the room. There it was stretched about five ft high all across

the room, the sheet of white. It's ectoplasm. And you could see if we're still stretched and was still attached to her nose, and you could see all this oh right in front of us, a few feet of her. Oh my god, I know. And it was, you know, four or five ft high. All the way to the ground was a big sheet. And then Brian said to that person, just let a drop. He dropped it and dropped to the floor and then started coming all the way back into the nose of Kitty disiter of the medium.

So that was our first experience with ectoplasm. People might listen to me and say you're nuts. No, I'm nut nuts. I have degrees in physics, degrees in mathematics. I was a professor at Cornell. I was a professor at the university in South Africa. And by the way, when I mentioned this the fellow professors, they thought I was a nutcase.

But some of the people who have Nobel Prizes were physicists back in the early people whose professors of physics with Nobel prizes believed in this because they've been to seances. They'd varience this. It is real, and the beauty is it has been photographed, and it's the reggie that The first time it was photographed was back in about eighty He was photographed by Sir William Crooks, you know, a famous physics professor. He took a lot of photographs of ectoplasm.

Photography was just new in those days. It was also photographed in the early nineteen hundreds by this baron Fonshanka, German, who were photographed two photographs of all different shapes and forms of ectoplasm. Most critics who see those photographs nonsense, is all fraud, far cheese cloth. It's everything. I saw it come out of someone's nose, get stretched for six ft across the room four ft high, and then when dropped on the ground by itself. It went back into

her nose. You tell me how trees cloth does that, and believe me resort. My wife saught everybody there saw it. It is real. Now coming back to my own experiences. Is because in my book, then I recommend if anybody is interested in the subject and you want to see photographs of actoplasm, that I will vouch for one because I know who took them. During my book, like Sandra said, Life after Death, some of the best evidence combined an Amazon Kindle, Amazon the photographer is worth the book alone.

So I have vouched for these photographs. Is because four of them, and especially the one on the front cover, were taken by Professor Allen This professor of anatomy at the university. He took those four photographs of not with Mickey and Sarah. They did not produce actoplasm in red light, and I must explain this to the listeners. Hectoplasm is very sensitive to light. White light has got more energy than red light. Red light has got a lower frequencies

or less energy. So some media can produce ectoplasm that kids Kitty did when we saw it in red light. Some mediums cannot do that, and they'll talk about some later. And now it gets even stranger but more fascinating. And if you've ever seen this or experience that it will change your life is when this medium then goes into trance.

And this was with Professor Allen. He sat with a medium in Johannesburg who Jack would not tell me his name, and the reason was he was a top executive in the insurance world in Johannesburg and he didn't want people to know that he was sitting in seances and producing materializations because a lot of people thought you were in nut case. Then he sat with this particular medium in

Johannesburg six times, a young man in his thirties. The ectoplasm would come out of his nose and it would fore first of all, form on his shoulder what they call a voice box, so you can see it. One of the photographs in the book shows a voice book, and I also show a photograph there of Jack Webber, very famous materialis Asian medium never proven to be frauddant or anything. And Jack also Finice photographs similar of a voice box on the shoulder of the medium. The voice

box is used in what's called direct voice. This is what the spirit entities you sometimes to talk through. Either the medium isn't trance and they will use the vocal chords of the medium, or they will speak through what's called this voice box, where they will use that voice box and put it over their spirit mouth so they can talk through it. Leslie Flynt, who was a very

famous direct voice medium, wouldn't even go into trance. He would be awake, but the voice box would form next to his body and entities would speak and he would even speak to the people speaking through the voice box. Incredible. It was an incredible medium. And this voice box then is used by spirit like Brian with Sarah who then you could hear the voice not from in the behind the curtain, but next to occurred and he was using

the voice box by the ectoplasm she produced. So this ectoplasm, that's the one purpose of it, to produce what's called the voice box for spirit entities can use it to talk to us. Then I show a photograph there of this ectoplasm totally draping the medium, and that's exactly what I saw with Kitty, my wife, and I saw with Kitty this ectoplasm draped over the medium. But what happens

next is where it gets unbelievable. This actoplasm and forms rolls out to the ground and then starts rising into a solid form like into a rod, and goes higher and higher, and eventually it forms a full human body. It forms a full body in white with draperies on it with it in my book shows that beautifully how it is draped in this white actoplasm. It is a spirit entity that is materiality call a materialization that they

have materialized in ectoplasm. And the incredible thing is this entity then who walk around the room, talk to the sitters and touched them if they were If they're allowed, he will touch the sitters and he will allow them to touch them. And these entities that were photographed by Professor Allen, he photographed to full materializations. During my book. He had a professional photographer with him. They use youth ultra violet film and they turned this in red light.

And when you look at that photograph of my front cover, you can see on the ground there in the background. I don't if you notice the sandra whole pile of ectoplasm lying there an incredible amount. So you get this whole entity, which by the way, is totally solid speaking to you, and you get this actoplasm, these draperies folds, you know, draping down from the entity. It is just

unbelievable and they talk to you. Now. The most impressive example of a materialization medium, and I want to talk about him because there is no one else who's ever produced what he did is called Alec Harris. I think you know about it. I've read the book that was written by his wife, wife Louis Harris. Now you won't believe it, but my friend Mickey and Sarah, the ones we sat with, sat with Alec Harris and his wife. They had sittings with them, so I got firsthand accounts

of what happened at those seances. So what you read in the book there because Alec Harris was born in Wales and he was giving demonstration in Wales. He in the beginning never believed it, but he was untold to go and sit in developmental circle or ship with his wife and he would then go into trance and produce these materializations. And the incredible thing about Alec Harris was he would produce from ten to thirty different materializations in one evening and they would come and out at the

same time, but one at a time. You would sit behind the curtain, the black curtain, the materialization would form walk out all in red lights. Everybody could see it. Very often one of these materializations was a relative of one of the sitters in the circle. We were invited to come and sit. Do you imagine one of your relatives appearing there in front of you. It hasn't happened to me, but I know parents that have had their

children talk to them from beyond the veil. Let's take our next break and when we come back, we'll find out more. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal podcast network. We are happy to announce that our Coast to Coast AM official YouTube channel has now reached over

three hundred thousand subscribers. You can listen to the first hour of recent and past two shows for free, so head on over to the Coast to Coast a m dot com website and hit the YouTube icon at the top of the page. This is free show audio, so don't wait. Coast to Coast a m dot com is where you want to be. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we are here with Professor Jan vanders Andy talking about physical mediumship. Jan, you're

talking about Alec Harris. People would come from all over, wouldn't they to sit with him. People would travel from all over England just try to get in and experience this. And these were just these are men, women, children. The one guy materialized missing a leg and his relatives said, yes, that's my brother. He lost his leg in the war in Singapore, Second World War in Singapore. And you know, they materialized like that. I believe even animals did the animals, Yeah,

he one of David Thompson's sittings. But the little dog appeared and ran up and jumped up and sat in someone's lap. So Alec Harris. What happened is their son moved to South Africa back into the nineteen fifties and he got a job there and they moved to Jannisburg. And that's where they met Mickey and Sarah. Because Mickey and Sarah were sitting with Kitty and Max, so they were all mediums. So they all sat with each other regularly,

cried often. So Mickey told me these stories about Alec, just like you're reading the book about all the sties have materialized. And one of the ones that Mickey told me the story his native American Indian materialized but very tall guy must Mickey said, he must have been six and a half tall, really big guy. And he stood there in front of everybody in red light and he said to Mickey Mickey, I am your guide, and I forgot the name. I am your guide. Please come up

in front of me. So Mickey walked up and there is this entity in actoplasm in white talking to him with a head dress and Indian dressing, American Indian dress, and he said to Mickey, hit me on the chest. So Mickey said what he said, Yeah, hit me on the chest. So Mickey gently taps him on his chest and the guy says, I said, hit me on the chest. So Mickey hit him a little bit harder. The guide again said hit me hard. Somebody said okay. He took his head and hit him as hard as he could.

Nothing happened, not a thing. The guy just took it totally. He said thank you, And Mickey was just dumbfound there he had his materialization, which comes from this ectoplasma pours out of someone's nose solidifies into an entity that walks around the room, but it is always still attached to the medium, so it is entered. Even though it walks, it is still attached with ectoplasm on the ground that is attached to the materialization is still attached out to

the nose and the medium or the mouth. Sometimes it comes out of the years or the solar plexus, so they are still attached to the medium. Interesting, and that's why that photograph of my front cover of my book, you see all that ectoplasm next to the entity there that's then attached to the medium. So Mickey told me these stories. One of their stories they also told me was that the spirit entity sometimes they walk back into the cabinet, which as they call it, or behind the

black curtain. But other times they would sink into the floor and disappear. Now you say to yourself, I don't believe that, but that he says, jan I saw it through my own eyes, and I think you read about it if you read Alex's book. He sinks into the ground, one of these entities and still talking, and he talks and talks and talks until his head is just sticking above the floor. You know, the only thing above the floor is head, and he's still talking and then his

head disappears. Now your listeners are gonna say this is nonsense. It isn't. The reason I talked so convincingly about it because I've witnessed it myself, and I have talked to people who have seen these things, like Professor Allen, who sort of the medium, and Johannisburg who Mikia and Sarah who saught with Alec Harris. I saw the ectoplasm myself with Kitty and another experience which I just have to talk about these Christmas, the Christmas sittings. These are sittings

of Mickey and Sarah advocause. Remember they were getting older. They were not producing full materializations. It's a bit sad of entities like Alec Harris would They weren't producing those kind of materializations. They were having the trumpet effect. We had people talk to us, lots of different guides, but they did produce materializations when we had Christmas sittings. They could just produce enough actoplasm. What happened at these Christmas

sitting was ten sitters were invited. My wife and I were invited. Two or three years in a row and we had everybody was told to bring a wrapped gift, so we had a rapped gift. And my wife had bought a black doll because the gifts afterwards were given to African charities, so we bought this black doll. She bought wrapped it never told Sarah or anybody what was in it. And we had to put the gifts in the middle of the circle. So Sarah and Mickey were

sitting behind the black curtain. The trumpet, you know, this little megaphone was standing up front, and in front of that we had lots of little toys that we had sitting in front of them, a little toy, drum, toy, whistle, a troy trumpet, a toy, some of these little toys that you would rub around and have sparks. And I forgot what they call those friction toys. There were some friction toys. They were all lying there and all the presents,

who are about ten presents in the front there. So the lights are turned out and then firstly Brian comes out. Of course he talks to us through the voice box and he talks to us and he thinks, he says, look everybody, and welcomes them there, and he gets to my wife, Marlene, and he says, oh, hello, Marlene, thank you for the nice present. He says, you're going to have one of those next year, but it won't be

that color. This was This was in December. My wife had our daughter in November next year, so she wasn't expecting. But he said to her, you're going to have one of these next year, but it won't be that color. Then your present was wrapped. The doll was actually totally wrapped, and of course dark and stark. No one knew what Marlene said, had said nothing to anybody. Is that incredible? I mean, that's what you call nice evidence. And so

next November she had our daughter. Then Brian finishes talking to everybody. Okay, kids, he says, go ahead, and all of a sudden, you hear this noise of all these presents being unwrapped, to hear all this paper being torn apart. We had no there was going on, you can imagine. And after a few minutes the boxes were open. These kids were playing with the toys. Then the little toys we put their little drums, the blistles. They were sort of playing all these toys they're playing with the drums,

blowing the whistles, blowing the trumpets. There was a hell of a racket time at the same time, but there were there were numerous kids. Then they would walk around and pull on your pants. Like my wife had her hand laying hand out and they were a little hand would touch her hand. And they told us not to grab or do anything, but if they came and touched us, we we should just allow them. So we allowed them to touch us. By me, they were pulling on my pants.

A few little hands pulling on your pants, and little hands will be touching everybody just and then we had the friction toys that were rubbing these friction toys for little sparks with a little things. You can actually see little materialization children there but for a fraction of a second while they were using these friction toys. So we experienced this, I mean we experienced this two or three years in a row. Incredible, an incredible experience. How can

anybody all this fraud? Yeah? Well, jan One of the reasons I feel so like it's now time for me to talk about this is I was at one of these Christmas seances and that is exactly what happened. And it blew my mind. And what's important to know too is when I saw the medium was strapped down to a chair, everybody was searched before going in, just to really show this is not some fraudulent thing doing this.

I mean, these mediums are very, very tested, and that's why it's like, we we've got to talk about this. We need to bring this into the world. And you know, one of the things, every time you say ectoplasm or seance, I cringe. And it's only because I've seen the Oustbusters movies,

you know, with the green slime. Yeah. Yeah. And then you know, we remember in times of you know, in the books and the and the movies and things, hearing things about Houdini trying to reach his mother and they go to these seances, and it all sounds like a very creepy world, and it wasn't one that I wanted to really talk about because I didn't want people think I'm crazy. But it's not creepy. It's filled with love and fun and humor. Yeah, exactly. And what is the

whole purpose. The whole purposes to show people here on earth that death is not the end, now that you're going to continue living. They're here to show and prove something to us. And a lot of times little children, you know, come out their parents to show them, hey, we're still alive. We're still here. Yeah, we're still here, and we're around you all the time. So it is a experience filled with love. But the fact that, like you experienced it, and you did it in England, I

think you do what you told me. I experienced it in South Africa. Different continents, different times, but notice a very similar kind of experiences. These are phenomenal. This is not fraud. Anybody who says to me fraud. To give you a good example, when I was a professor at Cornell, this was back in the early nineteen eighties, they had invited Randy the Magician. I don't know if you ever heard of him. He's not retired. He used to be the big debunker of psychic phenomenon and he would go

on TV shows and saying it's all nonsense. I can do whatever they can do. You know, this is Bologna. He was there the professor's department. They divided him. They said there was anybody there in the department who wanted to speak to him, and I said, yeah, sure, I did so I took my photographs with me and showed it to him at a private meeting with him. We had one look. He says, that's nonsense, that's fraud. I said, oh,

can you do this? Oh of course I can. Okay, I'll tie you to a chair in the dark, and I'll tie you with straps and everything, and you produce this. Oh well, we'll see, we'll do it. So, you know, immediately backtracked as soon as I challenged him that I would tie him to a chair, all of a sudden, Oh no, no, no, no, But well we'll think about it, you know. But he's out there because why he made

a good living doing that. And then other people when they hear about this, anybody who listeners, who are going to hear about this, they're gonna say, wait a minute, this is not possible. It is. The photographs are there to prove it. And also that I have some book photographs in my book from Minnie Harrison. I don't know if you've heard a minute. Oh, I have the book. Tom Harrison's book had it. I know Tom. I've spoken to him. He had retired in Spain. He's not in

the spirit world. Because I asked permission to use some of his photographs in my book. So we got to be very friendly, and he loved it. He asked me to send me my photographs, to send them because he he loved this to see others have the same experiences. It was his mother who produced full materializations in their

room in their seances. So I asked some of those photographs in the book, and one of the times Tom told me it's in this book was what it was a medical doctor there and he measured the pulse of these materializations. They have a pulse. They talked to us and believe it or not, to have a pulse. They're warm, they have a pulse and it's like nothing I've ever experienced before. Jan we have to go into our last

break and when we come back, we'll hear more. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. Okay, folks, we need your music. Hey, it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast AM and every first Sunday of the month, we play music from emerging artists just like you. If you're a musician or a singer and have recorded music, you'd like to submit. It's very easy. Just go to

Coast to Coast m dot com. Click the Emerging Artists banner in the carousel, follow the instructions and we just might play your music on the air. Go now to Coast to Coast am dot com to send us your recording. That's Coast to Coast am dot com. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we are

here with physicist Jan vanders Andy talking about physical mediumship. Now, physical mediumship was really big back in the turn of the century and mid to late eighteen hundreds, very very rare today, but it does exist. So, Jan, you had mentioned David Thompson. David Thompson's an Australian medium and David was doing materializations. But David was not good enough to do them in the red light. David did him in the black in the park. So immediately people say it's fraud.

People are so quick to criticize. David then gets strapped to a chair. Did you see David or did you see Scopa both? You know what? Then you saw David. You take David, you strapped into the chair with these ti plastic treat ties. They pulled him tightly around him. His legs get tied to the legs of the chair, his hands get tied to the arm rest of the chair. A scarf gets done through his mouth tied to that.

So there he is totally tied to the chair. And we could actually go up and make sure he's strapped in, make sure his hands couldn't fit through those straps, make sure it wasn't a trick chair. I mean I checked it out exactly, and me, I was the one who organized the room where it was, so there was no nothing could have been hidden there because David came in, you know, that was it. He couldn't do anything not I mean, the room was totally organized by me. It

was totally sealed, totally dark. Lights has turned off. And then as you know, his guide, William James, comes out. Now William, he walks in boots, so we had plywood on the ground so you could hear him step hard on the on the plywood, the boots he was wearing. David was wearing sneakers, and he walks around William touching everybody on the head with his big hand. Did happened to you, Sandra? It did? And it was a big,

warm hand that I sell, wasn't it so? And I asked William, I said, William, do you have a pulse? So he grabbed my hand with his hand, he put it up to his neck and I could feel his pulse in his neck. Incredible. There he is standing right in front of me and we were talking, and he thanked me for David inviting, getting David to come out and um. And then he walks around talking to everybody and he talks about, hey, all we're doing here is to show to you that you live after you die.

You're not gonna die. And yes you're gonna die. Your physical body is gonna leave you, but your spiritual body is going to go on. And that's where he came out. He know what he did, and that David does the same thing. He has trumpets, these trumpets flying around the room, and one of the sittings, I had two of my own trumpets that read my wife and I used. So there were three trumpets flying around the room at the same time. Now you tell me, and then people tell

me it's fraud, I say, well, how the hell. Oh yeah, he gets out of the bindings. He has night vision goggles and takes the trumpet and moves it around. And I said to that person, you ought to go to an insane asylum in case you have to experience it. I mean, I think you do, because it as great as it sounds that this would be reality. I mean it, it's scary for even myself to tell people about it because so many times we've been burned by things and

by people. And I do think back in the day when physical mediumship was in his heyday, there were magicians that we're trying to pray on people absolutely, and they used to take these umpets and time with a string and wisdom around the year. But you could hear that

if you listened closely, you can hear the wisdom. These trumpets fly around the room to the corners of this high speed and come and tap you on the head, on the knee, even if it's in the dark, and very gentle, very gentle, and they just have her thing since don't have her. But I think that's why this is so good that we're having this conversation. Yeah, because

I mean, you and I have experienced it. But I have spoken to the people who sat with the greats in this field, you know, I've spoken to people who sat with Leslie Flynt with Alec Harris. I know the people who took the photographs. I've spoken to them and they swore blind. This professor of anatomy, is he gonna phony a photograph? I mean, you know, we became friends

for twenty years. We were great friends. So when you've experienced all these things yourself and you know it, and you've spoken to the people, you've seen it with your own eyes. Like one thing, I gotta tell you about one of David's seances here the injury in l A, because I brought him back again two years later because there was so much demand for people to come and sit with them. But one of the seances here in the room we had this was in the hotel conference room.

There were these plastic trees they have in the four corners. They're about six eight ft high in the pots that the thing must have weighed anyway from five to ten pounds. During the sitting, those five plants were taken from the corners and put right around me. So there I was sitting with those five trees right around me and little Timothy, who is a little guide of David's. You've heard Timothy. He was laughing like Alice's chan we put you in

a forest and he's laughing like hell. And I had no idea what's going on until eventually after the seance lights would turned on and there these four trees, plants in these plastic trees were sitting next right around me my chair. Incredible, incredible. Plus also, David, as you know, in the sitting where you've probably had, they moved him tied in his chair to the center of the circle.

I don't know if you had that they did, and how they could move the cabinet out far and his clothes was on backwards and his sweater was on backwards. But Voss was even more amazing. The circle came from the around the cabinet where he was sitting, so they didn't move him forward. They actually lifted him and put him on the back over the people behind the circle. We're dealing with energy here that we just don't know.

And as physicist, any physicist who says we know all the laws of physics doesn't know what he's talking about. There are things happening here that we just don't understand. Yet, nothing scary happens, There's nothing I feel worse after leaving one of these seances. The only feeling I've had is when people tell me it's fraud and they, oh, yeah, he's got nine vision goggles. I said, where do you have, oh Adam and his pants? Oh Jesus. You know, these

are the kind of comments you get. Yeah, And there have been people that have been outed for being you know, that have been filmed on the thermal cameras, that have walked around the realm and have been holding the trumpet. You know. So, Sandra, you are unfortunately back in the late eight d early nineteen hundreds, when when spiritualism was really at its peak, there were so many frauds because there were so many gullible people who are willing to

pay for it. And of course, when there's money involved, there's fraud involved. No matter what you talk about everything in life, if there's money involved, there's unfortunately fraud involved. And yes, there were a lot of fraudulent mediums. There were fraudulent people who took advantage of beriefed people, and there's lots of people out there. Yeah, and you are correct, and you read the literature, but then you have to know.

That's why in my book, the evidence I present is from the horses I believe accurate and for mediums who have never ever been proven to be fraudulent. So as a reminder, Jan vanders Andy's book is called Life After Death Some of the Best Evidence. Also another book I highly highly highly recommend. It's called Alec Harris, the full story of his remarkable physical mediumship by his wife and her name is Louis Harris. Best book that I have read so far, and you can read it on kindle

if you can't get a hard copy. I haven't brought up physical mediumship too much as far as my experiences, because the truth is it does sound kind of weird, and even to me, I had to make a three thousand mile trip just to discover it for myself. I took a five day workshop with two seances, tons of information, food and beverage included, and hotel room for it was less than five dollars, So that is not somebody who's trying to trick me. One of the great mediums I

saw is Scott Milligan. You've heard me talk about him in the show. You've also heard some of his trances speaking. He is also a physical medium. I used to hate Christmas and the holidays because my parents divorced when I was fourteen years old. My seance with Scott Milligan was much like jam Vanders. Andy talked about a group of people sitting in a circle. There was a Christmas tree in the center with lots of toys that were wrapped, and at one point it was as if the room

was filled with children. All the presents were unwrapped at the very same time and things started flying around the room. Everything was being played with at once. But what makes Scott Milligan's physical mediumship the most exceptional to me is that loved ones come through and speak to their family members. I have witnessed many children talk to their parents again, Husbands speak to their wives and vice versa, detailed messages

as if they were alive. Because they are. Somehow they are able to step into this ectoplasmic robe and become real again. I've even witnessed children's fingers touching my fingers. The experience is priceless. It's not anything I would dream of trying to convince you of in a radio show. But in the future, when the world gets a little safer to travel again, we will be holding some more We don't die. Conferences around the world and you can meet Carrie and phil Son. Youre a Naldi, sit with

Scott Milligan and have the six variance for yourself. There's nothing like it to go from a hope of the afterlife, to a faith, to a belief, to absolutely knowing it's real. There's nothing quite like it. As we close this show today, I want you to just look around you. You may feel alone, but in the invisible space around you, you have the biggest group of cheerleaders wanting you to have the best life possible. They're they're trying to wipe your tears.

They're they're celebrating the good times. That moment you close your eyes for the very last time here on Earth, you will open them and be reunited with them. That I promise. So I want to remind you our home base is we Don't Die dot com. If you join our email list at the bottom of the page, you get a free copy of my book, We Don't Die. If you'd rather hear the audio book, go over to the store, find the audio book and use coupon code

free f R. Also join us for Sunday gathering. We have mediumship demonstrations coming up and all kinds of good things. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening. My name is Sandra Champlain. I'm your host on Shades of the Afterlife right here on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. And if you like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife,

wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for listening to the Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a m paranormal podcast Network.