Doctor Jen episode? Is this two fifty?
Yes? Is it happy? Two hundred and fifty episodes? Clant my.
Crazy to me? I know, wow, well happy to fifty to you?
Yes, and I was trying. It's just so crazy. I literally can't remember which year we started. I think it was twenty seventeen, and that means at the end of this month, it'll be our seven year anniversary of doing this show.
God who knew that us starting a podcast thirty eight years.
Ago would lead us to exactly where we are, which is pretty close to where we started.
Dozens of listeners who hang on our very very breath. Yes, exactly to the eleven of you, we say thank you so much.
I know you're particuling for listening. We do appreciate it.
I'm down plan we're doing pretty darn well. I haven't checked our stats, but that should probably be my homework before next week.
Do that now?
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, at one point it was on two to three thousand a month, and that's not huge, but it was that was a few years ago.
I'm hoping we've grown since then.
And if not, well, then I know again, really what are we doing here? Keep coming back? Yeah? So okay, So you know, I have been I can't remember how much I've shared on this show or not, but so I have been getting more involved with this organization that I work with called YPO Young President's Organization, but young meaning under fifty. Yeah, and they're high end. You know, they're very successful CEOs and C level executives in the US and around the world that make it at a
young age. And I've gotten into this network. I do events for them. I do Valentine's events and other such things. Have done some in Europe, have done some virtually like even in a group in Tanzania, once in Dubai and so and most recently last Paul, I got trained to be able to do small group facilitation for them for something that they have a called form within it. Anyway, So I did a four hour forum basics training yesterday
online virtual. So we had people they could have been from around the world, but most of them were like it was European and US and Canada, and there was eight folks that were new I'm going to be joining their first forum or at least Yeah. Anyway, and so at the end it's a lot about vulnerability and authenticity and how to open up the new ways and share
your emotions in new ways. And this was you know, a group of strangers, and it was really lovely, and so I ended they were just they were wonderful, wonderful participants. It's a lot of teaching and it's exhausting for me,
but their participation of vulnerability was lovely. And I ended by reading this poem and somebody you know sent it to some listener of I'm on and I adapted it a little bit, but I wanted to read it out and see what you think about this in terms of particularly in relationships.
Okay, So.
To laugh is to risk appearing the fool. To weep is to risk appearing sentimental. To reach out for another is to risk involvement. To expose feelings is to risk exposing your true self. To place your dreams, your ideas before the crowd is to risk their ridicule. To love is to risk being not loved in return. To hope is to risk despair. To try is to risk failure. But risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in
life is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing may avoid suffering and sorrow that they cannot learn feel change, grow, love, or fully live. Changed by their certitudes, they're enslaved to themselves. They have forfeited their freedom. Only a person who risks is truly free?
Is that it?
Yep?
That's terrible. No, bottle it all up inside. Don't expose yourself.
Are you kidding me? Love ain't worth it these experiences I move? Does you kill your younger?
No?
Honestly, that was absolutely brilliant.
And I'm going to tell you right now, I actually listened to every word, even with my add and two, and there were two things that stood out the to to not try, wait, to not try because afraid of failure?
What was it like? How I forgot it already? Dang it? There was two places in there that I really liked a lot.
Yeah. At the end, well, I said, at the end, like the person who risks nothing may avoid suffering and sorrow, but they cannot learn, feel, change, grow love, or fully live.
Yeah that you know what? Listen? That is brilliant, And I say risk it all.
Yeah, it's right, Yeah, it's I mean, and it's scary. I mean yeah. So it was just and I actually choked up reading it out to these folks onion. We're on zoom, and I actually could surprise. Halfway through I started choking up because I mean people really had been so vulnerable in this group and really got the you know, the core of the training and what it was about and the forums that they're going to be stepping into. So it was just, yeah, I don't know, it was
really moving to me. But so, what do you think what stood out to you as the risks you think are most important to take, like in a marriage and in a long term relationship.
Well, I love dollar, I love to show your feelings. And again I'm not saying it exactly the way you did, but I remember a lot of the the the message, just not the actual perfect content delivery. Yeah, but you know, to to not love or something like that.
Is to love is to risk not being loved.
And yes, and I will tell you even out like even before I got married, Like, I can't tell you how many times I was not willing to take that risk and the what ifs. Again, I wouldn't change anything now, but back in the day, I can't tell you how many times that I just even just for the just for the risk of it, just for the chance, just for the courage that it takes.
You know, why couldn't die?
Why didn't I And I can tell you now it was fear of not being loved back, fear of rejection. So that stood out to me, and in marriage it still stands out to me because look, let's just talk about sex for a second, right, Yeah, you know, for me to reach out to my wife, maybe other guys feel this way, Maybe other women feel this way.
I don't know.
You know, maybe things aren't going perfectly well in that arena in your marriage and you're afraid to reach out and try for that try for that physical intimacy. I realize there's many other ways to be intimate. I'm just using that as the example.
I don't know, but I mean sexual intimacy is the piece of the puzzle, right, that's interesting. So to me, that kind of falls into like the reason one of the reasons that I find folks in long term relations, especially a higher desire person, and they stop trying.
And that's exactly my point.
Yeah, but I think it's hope, because to hope is to risk despair, and I think it's I mean, there's multiple reasons, but I think of it as it's easier to not hope anymore because it hurts so much, yep, to open yourself to hope and then to feel despair again.
Yeah, I mean that's and that's the thing, you know, and then you go down this whole big rabbit hole. I think because I've been having conversations with a friend of mine who's going through a little bit of that, or he was he's not actually with his wife anymore. But the point was that he, you know, his his thing. He would say to me, was, you know, here we are, we going on these date nights, but you know, are they really date nights? If I know guaranteed at the
end of that night, nothing's going to happen. After the bill's paid, that's it. It's over dates, over even. And what he pointed out was I've stopped trying. I haven't tried for a long time because it is constant rejection. And it made me kind of sad because I went and your poem brought that back into my head because I haven't actually discussed this with this friend of mine in probably about three four months, maybe five, But it makes me want to contact him again and say, hey, dude,
how you doing. But anyway, there's a risk and all of that I think.
I mean, listen, it is with you, your.
Risk of starting a fight and creating more of a distance. But I mean the big picture is I mean, the problem is the more of these risks that we don't take in the long run, it creates more and more of a barrier between couples because it builds, it builds resentment and distance, and that's harder. I mean, the more it grows, the harder it is to ever recover from that.
Well, I've got a friend who I gotta be careful here, no names, no, I'm trying to give us a little information about. So I have a friend of a friend of mine who this person and their husband I don't even know if she's done this yet, is going to present divorce papers to her husband. And the last we talked was probably a month or maybe five weeks ago.
I don't know if it's happened since then.
But because it's a friend of a friend, that's who I'm going through. And this friend of a friend knows I'm aware of this, by the way. But the point is the conversation that the information I got to your point about, you know, putting this wall up, and it gets harder and harder and harder. They've not been intimate physically in over six years, and they are basically roommates.
Those are the words of the friend telling me this from the woman who's married and just listening to that and listening to this poem, listening to you say how it's you know, harder herd. I like you to get to that point.
I think. I think you're right. You stop taking risk at all.
It becomes just like, hey, this is just the way it is, and it's more comfortable this way. I may be disappointed and I want it to change, but I am not willing to risk diving into this uncomfortable situation to try and fix it. Let's just keep its status quo.
And you're right, they and so often that that's what leads to cheating. Oh, I can't tell you right at that point.
Yep, that does not surprise me at all at all. Yeah, so I don't know what about you. I mean you to see with you.
Yeah, So it's funny. I was just thinking about this because I because of having been in this line of work for so long, and like I said, really holding myself to a standard of practicing what I preach. Although you know, I was just thinking this morning about something an interaction with my boyfriend. I was like, oh, yeah,
I definitely could have done that better. Well, more patience, a little more kindness, a little less reactivity, but all of that being said, you know, if I was to you know, with somebody, somebody that was in some sort of community or friendship with me or closest to me, and if I was to like laugh and they like treated me like I was a fool, or if I was to cry and they like reacted badly, or I was like looking at a bunch of these exposed my feelings and like was sort of mocked in some way,
or like my ideas or my dreams. You know, I actually would get probably self righteous at this point of being like, why are you being an asshole? That was really rude what you just did. So because I feel so I guess I'm almost entitled, or I guess I'm just so. I mean, that sounds terrible to say it that way. That's kind of how it plays out. But I think the bigger picture around it is, I know
those things are the best way to live life. I know those things like vulnerability takes courage, authenticity takes courage, and to share at with other people. And if people aren't responsible without emotionally and their own shit gets in the way, I call it out almost exclusively, or I would at least say well that was rude or like, oh that wasn't a very nice response. I mean, depending on the person, depends on how rude my response would be.
But yeah, I just feel I do. And if you know, if I'm bringing up something with my boyfriend that I know is important to bring up and I know I'm being responsible and I'm bringing up and if he doesn't handle it well, I will absolutely be like whoa, whoa, whoa, Like what are you doing? I'm doing the like taking the higher ground here and being emotionally mature in our relationship. That response is not and he mostly then will be like, oh shit, you're right, and he's like, I'm sorry, dabes.
So yeah, but you know, was I the same person fifteen years ago? No, not at all, you know, so much more fear. Yeah, I guess the thing is, Yeah, if I'm taking the risk, I feel almost righteous about it now. But I will not do it with everyone, you know, because they're not worth us, They're not worth our vulnerability there or they're not worthy of it in terms of we don't know that they know how to
be responsible with it. But in terms of our you know, marriages, a long term relationships, yeah, I think it's super valuable.
I will say. Well, I was going to ask again the name of that poem and did you already say this?
Maybe you didn't. I missed it. Are you posting it? Did you post it?
No? No, I didn't. It didn't have like a name on it. And I looked up a little bit of it and it said it's thought to be adapted, or that it thought that it's to be somebody's work, but I'm not sure. And then I did adapt it a little bit. Uh No, I'm just gonna I'm going to keep it from my stuff. I mean I might use it in a post.
Wow, I sure love it.
If you'd email it to me, And if you don't want me to share it, I won't because that.
Was really good.
Yeah, No, I definitely will. I just added a line at the end too, while we were talking, because it says only a person who risks is truly free, and then I added in and happy, so I could add.
The very end, which I said, just a few minutes ago, risk it all, risk at all.
I don't agree with that.
What are you talking about everything in there? Risk it all?
No, but I don't I would see that's the problem with stuff like this. But people like these beautiful poems and these beautiful buffs, they're simplifying it because there's places that you shouldn't risk because that's actually not smart to do. Well, it's not the right thing. Or how about a man and he's like a high level CEO and he's gonna risk at all for what he really believes in, and then he loses all the money and his family's fucked over.
Oh yeah, hmmm.
Or a guy on the radio who doesn't want to lose his job and he keeps his mouth shut about a bunch of things so that he doesn't lose his job.
Yeah, sorry, I know, I'm not supposed to curse when you're in studio. Sorry about that.
Whatever, it's only three or four times.
Although you know what this is more about the Although you know most of this is about emotional risks and sharing with others. But it's the last of the risk section says to try is to risk failure. That's the one that I was kind of referring to just there anyway. To me, it's all like the all or nothing approach to things I think is terrible. But what I like about this is giving people permission an awareness to have the courage to share some uncomfortable things.
I like that.
Yeah, I like that, And it's not as catchy of a poem, but.
I have some for next week that I wanted it.
Uh, sex should last thirty five minutes, including fifteen minutes of four play and five minutes of cuddling, according to a poll of people online. We ran out of time today because I got to get to doing my show. But I just I literally as we talk, just emailed it to you. It's a short deal, but I thought that we might have some.
Fun with that.
Wait. Wait's a thirty five minutes and it's minus thirty five minus its twenty and then ten minutes for cuddling, So we've got ten minutes. They're saying of like intercourse, I don't know.
You're going to have to read it.
It's very well in terends of what they mean by four play, because unfortunately four play what's put into that is like women's specific pleasure is put into four play instead of the main show, so I'd like to know how to breaking down their categories. Okay, I am suspicious already.
I am too.
Well, Clint, I know you had got to go because you gotta get on air. So this was just a quickie, quickie for quickie for two fifty.
Yes it was.
I will send you this risk poem if anybody else wants to, just hit me up on social media somewhere or send me an email and I'm happy to send it to you.
Love it, doctor Jenny.
You have a good day, Clint, have a great one. Okay. Bye,