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and follow us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Hi, and welcome to Episode Seven of sex ed debunked a podcast about comprehensive sex ed, sex positivity and why you show me yours. I'll show you mine doesn't actually count as consent.
Where are your hosts, Christina Shannon Curley. Thanks for tuning in. Today we'll be talking about not just consent, but affirmative consent. And the myth is that consent is just about saying no. And this podcast is for everyone,
everyone. On our last episode, we talked about sex positivity, and we debunked the myth that it is a radical concept. In fact, it's a really healthy concept. And in that conversation, we talked about affirming your sexuality in a positive way, in a confident way in a healthy way. So it seemed natural tie that episode into this one where we talk about affirmative consent because being affirmatively sexual, also requires affirmative consent.
And also because contrary to what media and culture may have you believe consent is the responsibility of everyone involved in an intimate situation. So let's talk about affirmative consent.
So first of all, Shannon, thank you for mentioning that it's for both people. The culture people sometimes it's more than two, it could be it could be many if you're lucky.
No shade.
But I think I think this the social scripts around sexuality have made it as you know, the female woman tending to be the one who's supposed to be the gatekeeper. And the No. Which is why this episode is about affirmative sexuality, which is yes. So the acronym that we teach our students is fries, fries, like fri II s fries, like French fries. Yeah.
sGreat. Love it. Okay,
well, it helps you to remember so so we'll start with the first one. F, freely f
friends who do stuff, okay. freely given F is for freely given.
That's right. That's right. And what that means is, is there's two pieces, right? It means freely, it means it's given. So freely means that there's no harassment. There's no pretense. Neither person is drunk, neither person is high. Because in order to freely give, you have to be of sound mind and being able to say, and understand what it is and what you want. The second piece is given. not taken. Active, not
passive. Exactly. Yeah. So this is I guess, the the situation where but we went to prom together isn't enough?
No. Okay, got it? No. And it's also not a quid pro quo. Well, hey, yeah, I got this dress. And then I got this talks. And we're here.
Now, but I got this hotel room for us. Yeah. Well,
and that's a situation about context, right? That there's sometimes there's an assumption, because you're in a certain context, that you have consented to everything. So I think too freely given but also free of pressure. Exactly. And coercion. And pressure doesn't have to be from the person you're with. Sometimes pressure comes from the situation you're in. Right? Right, you're expected. I will definitely put
this link up. But Christine, Kristen, Jess koski, does some great research on affirmative sexuality. And there's actually studies that show that in a bar setting, there's a presumption that if and this was a study of men and women in college, that if women dress up to look nice, they're going to the bar to find someone to hook up with. Now that's not
really good, never dressed nicely. It's my out, stick to those yoke. Hey, I like my yoga bag.
It's true. It's true,
I think, freely given you know, no one should be trapped in a presumption, right? Based on environment based on situation based on who you're with. It should always be freely given free of pressure.
So I'll give you I'll give you another example. Another sex positive researcher and therapists that I follow on Instagram and everywhere else. She tells a story about what's her name, let's give her credit. Nan Pierce, she's amazing. She runs exotic lifestyle retreats, and She also does a program called Oasis for couples to increase their sex positivity and their intimacy and talks a lot about consent, even in ongoing relationships, which we'll talk more about in a bit.
But she she goes to hedonism, which is a lifestyle clothing optional resort. And she brings with her entertainers, both men and women who are beautiful, to say the least. Because they're entertainers. They're exotic dancers. But she tells stories, that there's a presumption of the guests that are at this resort, that simply because they are well sculpted, sculpted individuals, and that they are there to entertain, that they
want to be touched. And these men and women get groped, and get groped sexually, simply because they decided to go to all clothing optional resort. And so that's an example of a presumption based on a setting. So that's why fries means freely given freely given from the person and not presumed based on the setting. So that's your F, that's, that's your R is a very tricky one. But it's yet a very important one. Are is
reversible. So it means once you've consented, you can take that back, you can take it back at any point, any
stage, at any point, that's huge, because you are absolutely allowed to change your mind. I think a lot of times the reason people feel like they're not allowed to and I can say this from my own experience, like you feel like you can't, because you don't want to disappoint someone. But you can change your mind any time you want. Here's an example. Booty calls, love and support them great if you send them on and they come over, and then they get there and you're like, actually, I don't want to,
can we just watch Netflix and chill and actually watch Netflix and chill.
I actually want to watch this movie, you're allowed to say sorry, I changed my mind. And also, if you're the person that got in the car, and drove over, and then you get there, and you're tired in the car, because you were stuck in traffic, and you listen to sad music on the way over and you're just not feeling it anymore. You're also allowed to change your mind. So I think that's a
really, really big one. Because I think there is a lot of stigma around changing your mind when it comes to like sex and giving consent is a while I already gave it and I don't want to disappoint, you know, disappoint it. Because honestly, if your partner is disappointed, then they're not being respectful of your consent in the first place. Well, and
you know what, on the one hand, they're allowed to be disappointed and say I'm disappointed, but still honor that and say, oh, okay, so you're not you're feeling tired, you had a stressed out day, I would love to actually watch Netflix and chill with you on the couch. And that's part of affirmative consent. Because if you're not sure, and you're not saying yes, it's not Yes. So on to buy in fries. So the iron fries is kind of it's called informed. And informed, also has
a couple of spectrum. One being that you need to be honest, you need to be honest with yourself with the person you're with, about what's going to happen. And the overarching thing about this whole affirmative sexuality and this fries acronym, is this is the part where it's kind of negotiated and negotiation should be sexy. It should be talking about, Hey, what do you
want? What do I want? And saying and figuring out together with who you are with or the many people you're with exactly what it is that you are thinking about sexually that day. And once again, it's the whole spectrum of sexual activity, it could you could consent to kissing and not consent to oral sex, that's perfectly fine. But if someone says, For example, I'm going to use a condom, and that's the basis of you saying
yes. And then they don't, you can take away that consent, because that consent is no longer informed by the truth of what's happening.
I think this one is the most, I don't wanna say confusing, but like the other two made a lot of upfront sense to me. So this one, like, I think what for me gets confusing is if it's informed, how does that work, if it is casual sex, or it is like a one night stand or whatever, where you don't know that other person that well so how do you navigate feeling informed when you're with a committed partner versus when you're with someone totally new?
Well, if you're if it's a casual thing, you still want to have a discussion. And I think that's a big piece that's missing when we talk about hookup culture and talking about whether or not people are satisfied in a hookup type of a sexual scenario is very, how often do you have a conversation before you have hookups and informed means you have a conversation? Yeah, like What are you into? What do you not into?
And actually, I think that's interesting because what we touched on last time was that article in The New York Times and one of the criticisms of being sex positive was that it removes empathy, because it's all about being casual and hookups. But I think what we're saying here is that no, being sex positive is actually increasing empathy. And it's actually increasing communication and increasing conversation,
right? Because in order to be informed, you need communication, you need a conversation, right. And especially with a casual sex hookup, you definitely want to be known for nothing. But you also want to be informed about safe sex, you want to be informed about their sexual history. And you want to also be very clear on what you like, and
what you don't like. Because just to touch briefly, pornography, and the fact that most people are watching some form of pornography these days, because it's easily accessible. And it can be soft porn, hard porn, all different ranges of it. But what pornography has done, and the research shows this, it has created an expectation of what sex is supposed to be. You often saw that in the old episodes of Sex in the City, right? In sex of
the city. I remember clearly an episode with Miranda talking to Charlotte and Samantha and Carrie, and saying, are we doing buts now? Well, important they do. But well, just because someone's watch porn doesn't mean you're necessarily into butts. I mean, you might be. But if you don't have a conversation about butts, you're not having informed. So, but that's an example of what porn has done. Another porn example is choking. Yeah. Like people think that's an expectation around casual sex.
Would you say that the informed part of the fries model, this AI is also about setting limits?
Most definitely. And it's also about understanding the limits. So you go in and you know, you know, it's okay to have casual sex. Of course, it's sex positive, if everyone is open, honest, and having communication about it. You know, if it's coming back to my apartment for a drink, you should clearly say, hey, are we coming back for a drink? Or are we looking to do more? And then the conversation can be a sexy conversation? Well, like, Hey, I
would like to do more. I'm really interested in kissing you. But I don't think we're going to sleep together. Is that all right, I want to consent to making out with you. And that's what I consent to. And I've been in it. It's an agreement, but it's a it's a sexy agreement.
It's a sexy clause. Because it's not permission. It's an agreement.
Right? And that's, that's the affirmative sexuality part is that we're talking about expressing our needs and wants and desires. Not saying no to something. It sucks to be the one to say no,
you want to be excited about it. Right? You
want to be moving on to the E and F.R.I.E.S. it was
it excited?
enthusiast. enthusiast. It's close. Its close. And but enthusiasts ik means really, really good. So for example, you're with somebody and you say is this Okay, well, that is pretty ambiguous, pretty nonspecific. And what is people's What is your response when someone asks you if it's okay,
it's fine.
And what does that mean?
It's not fine. Classic. Yeah.
And it's fine ever really?
Is that part of enthusiasm or being specific?
It's part of enthusiasm to the extent that you want the answer to be That's awesome. Yes, I want to do that. Or like, or even do more? Yeah, more of that. The answer should never be fine. If you get the answer to a question, and it's fine. Yeah. Be more specific. Well,
it shouldn't be a guessing game. It should be like Absolutely, yes. This is great. No, I don't want that. This really reminds me of I feel like this happens in TV shows and movies all the time, but it'll be like a couple and they're like, yeah, let's have sex but like one of them's definitely way too tired and just kind of goes along with it and then like
they fall asleep. I feel like I've seen this on so many shows where then like the spouse or the partner whoever gets mad at them and it's like you fell asleep but it's like well, maybe that's because they weren't enthusiastic about it because they were dead tired and then you tried to have sex and they fall asleep. So enthusiasm, active enthusiasm, actually here for it and thews e Azzam
I once again enthusiasm sexy right? If you could be
Yeah, yes is way more sexy than it's fine.
Well and also Hey, do it more right? More more more. That's fine. That's much more sexy that no no no. So we all get you
should always be looking for Yes, you should be looking for Yes, this is awesome. Not I guess so.
Right. Fine once I guess so right. Now there's, there's a kind of a, how should I put this? There is circumstances if you have a long term relationship that you can have A blanket consent to certain things you can have in certain power dynamics, you have safe words when the consents being taken away. But we're kind of talking here about debunking the myth about sex being about No. And reframing the question of sexuality being about Yes. And that kind of goes to the last piece of fries, which is
the s. And that's specific. So specific means that you are consenting to something specific in a sexual activity.
So this is why when you said in under enthusiasts, like is this, okay? It's also not specific enough, because whatever the intimate act is, there's always more involved in it than just like one thing. So you need to be very specific about what you're asking that the person is interested in and receptive to and comfortable. So
So when I say to you, Is this okay? Do you have any idea what I'm saying? Nope, nope. So how about this? Do you like it? When I touch you? Can I touch you more this way? Right? specific,
like that exact thing that I'm doing right now, is this good?
And then you can set you have the opportunity to say, Well, why don't you move your
example, right? It's like being on a, like a, like a, like an amusement park. And you're on like one of those four D rides like the stupid Lilo and Stitch experience at Disney World right there, you're on a chair and it's vibrating. They're spraying water at you, there's music going on? Are you having fun, which part is overwhelming, there's a lot going on, I don't mind the water, I hate the
spinning, you know. But if you're not specific, then you can't actually get at what someone's enjoying versus not enjoying. So being specific, helps improve both partners experience.
And once again, both partners, I mean, you're not even bought all the partners, and all of the different relationships you have. So we did touch upon the casual sex a bit, talking about a committed relationship. I think what's happened, a little bit of a backlash from the metoo movement has been like, well, do I have
to ask every time I like? Well, kind of kind of what I would say to that is, be sure every time because one of the aspects of the fries is that just because you've had sex once doesn't mean you've had consented for a sex all the time. So be sure
when a vampire has to ask to be let in through the window. That's only for that one time. They have to ask again the next time to
let's not equate sex with a vampire unless that's what you're into.
I'm not knocking anyone's kink. No, by saying yes to one thing doesn't mean saying yes to everything. And being you saying yes once doesn't mean saying yes, always. And I think that's an important point to make. I also think you know, this is fries, right? So that this is the order we gave it in because acronyms. But this isn't a prescriptive order. You know, you give your consent freely.
But you can reverse after you've been enthusiastic, you can change what you specifically want when becoming more informed about the situation. So even though we're giving you this acronym of fries, because it's a useful mnemonic device, if you want it to be rise of Sure, go for it. So these are the things to remember is freely given reversible, informed, enthusiastic and specific. But switch around that water as you see fit your it is not
prescriptive. And once you've done one, there's nothing that says you cannot turn it around and change your mind.
Exactly. And you know what that is also part of positive sexuality that may be you start engaging in sexual activity with one or more people. And you're really enthusiastic about it. And you really are freely giving that consent, but maybe you get to a point of IQ, right? And you can't you you get once again are reversible, you'd be like okay, well, that was fun up to that point. But can we take a break?
Can we check in and part of sexuality and positive sexuality is checking in, you can check it out. It's not. It's not like I'm saying you have to stop and sign a contract. You know, that's what the that's what a lot of the critics will say. It's like, Oh, do I have to ask about touching my wife's breast every time I sit on a couch with her? Like, no, no, but make sure she's liking it. Alright,
we're not man shaming here. This is just No, it's just an
it's example. But it's an example that you hear, you know, on the blogs and that stuff is is that do I have to ask every time? No, and I say sure someone's liking it every time right? Daily, so hard.
enthusiastic consent can become more fluid with time. But always both parties need to recognize when a line is crossed, or when someone's no longer comfortable and checking in is never a bad thing.
It's ending. And there is when we talk about consent in an affirmative sexuality in long term relationships. There is a such thing as it maybe because when you're in a long term relationship, you do sometimes need novelty, right? You need variety. You don't want sexual activity and your sexuality to become a routine habit. So sometimes enthusiastic consent isn't enthusiastic. Maybe like Okay, I'll give it a try. But you have to recognize that if it ends up, I don't like it that
much, I can change my mind. And so enthusiastic babies come under the Penumbra of enthusiastic yeses, so that we can all in our sexual positive way, explore what we want to explore.
So let's reiterate that real quick in terms of language, because we talk about language all the time. This is a three line, neither you nor your partner should ever be in a position where you feel like you have to say no healthy communication around sex allows you to choose Yes, you should feel like you can affirmatively Choose Yes, instead of having to defer to know.
Yes. And for all of us who are listening. consent, saying yes. never stops being important. Because saying yes, is sexy. Getting Yes, is fun, saying Yes. Is erotic, spell
sexy without Yes, you're so smart. That's why I just realized that right now. That's amazing. One, one more thing that I just want to talk about, because we've been talking about this very much in the context of real in person interactions. But it would be remiss to not talk about how this applies to digital interactions as well. So can you just talk really briefly about consent in the digital sphere?
Get it? Yeah. Cuz, you know, personally, I don't like an unsolicited dick pic. It's not my thing. No, no, no, you like that? I really do not know. I really do not. Maybe some people do, right? And so then you say, hey, send me a picture in your bra and panties, then I will you ask for it. I'll send it to you. Well, not to you, Shannon. But most definitely before you send any sexting any unsolicited, any pictures, please ask and say, Hey, I'm thinking about you today. Would you like me to send
you a picture? Because maybe someone's in a business meeting and don't want to have a picture come across their computer screen?
Yeah, I could tell you about situations with friends and other folks out there. Like, that was a great photo that popped up in the middle of my meeting on my computer where I was presenting on the apple screen to the entire border. Yeah, so so definitely arrows of airdrop, man. Alright, so consent in every context matters, real life, digital life, everything in between. It
matters. So that's the myth that we sought out to debunk today is that consent is about no it's not about No, it's about a lot more. And yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. And yes. And yes. And not fine.
Not fine. Definitely. Oh,
so F.R.I.E.S. Keep in mind fries. Here's a helpful reminder, you need french fries before you can French kiss.
Well done good damage. So what do you think? So I think that we successfully debunked the myth of consent is about saying no.
So is it another myth? Yes,
another myth
There it is. Alright. Thanks for tuning in. Remember that you are entitled, and you deserve all the consent and you deserve to be affirmative in your consent. You deserve to be enthusiastic about your consent. If you have any questions or comments about today's episode, feel free to reach out to us on all the socials or shoot us an email at sexedd [email protected].
Thanks for listening.
See you soon.
Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of sex ed debunked. During the course of our podcast, we have limited time together, which means that unfortunately, many identities, groups and movements may not be represented each week. The field of sexuality and gender orientations, identities and behaviors are changing growing rapidly, and we remain committed to being as inclusive as possible.
Please remember that all of us, including us, are learning in this area and may occasionally slip up. We ask that we all continue to be kind to one another so that we can create a truly inclusive and accepting environment. As always, if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Sex Ed debunked is produced by trailblaze Media along with myself Shannon Curley and Christine Curley from trailblaze
Media. Our engineering is handled by Ezra Winters