Myth #6: You Can "Opt Out" of Sex Ed, with guest Bill Shaner

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Hi, and welcome to sex ed debunked a podcast about sex education, positive sexuality and why leaving space for Jesus doesn't count as practicing safe sex. Today, we're joined by Bill Shaner, an independent journalist from Worcester, who has been covering the updated sex ed curriculum and opposition in the western school system. Hi, Bill.

Hey, how's it going.

Bill, good to have you here. And good to know that you are very well researched in this area. And your opinions really aligned with ours. So thanks for coming.

Yeah, Worcester is sort of a remarkable city when it comes to sex education. A city its size just this year passed a sex ed curriculum that he wasn't it would be Yeah,

I mean, better late than never. Yeah,

after I've been reporting on Worcester for five or six years now. And there have been people trying to get sex ed passed the entire time that I've been covering the city, and we finally got there. It's remarkable for a city of that size that we would not have comprehensive sex ed and public schools.

Well, not so remarkable, because as our first episode, most of the country is not comprehensive yet, right. So remarkable that they were willing to have the political courage to do that, considering what the last four years have been in our country. A lot of political will to get it through this stage.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Maybe I'm just getting a little bit too Massachusetts brain. Like, and not thinking about the rest of the country. But

yeah, you have to remind yourself sometimes that Yeah, in our least progressive is still more progressive than most places. Right, right. Yeah, so it might seem a little odd. You are our first guest. So Hooray. Cool. It might seem a little odd that our first podcast guest is a cis white man from Worcester, but thanks for

Sure, sure. So the the new curriculum is called the three R's, rights, respect and responsibility. It is a it's it's K through 12. And it deals a lot with consent, and LGBT issues, and inclusivity and respecting boundaries, which, which are, which are some of the things that real comprehensive sex education should be doing? It's, you know, it's not what you would think of, like, from when you went to school where you're putting a condom on a banana? Yeah, it's a lot more

I imagine they're really concerned about the idea that you're the perception that you're teaching kindergarteners about sex and you're not that the curriculum is not teaching them about sex per se right? Yeah,

no, no no, it's it's like the the curriculum does teach about sex later to middle school and high school students, which is when it's appropriate, right, but it lays the groundwork to talk about consent and boundaries in in touching and feeling comfortable about like giving a hug or saying no if you don't want to get a hug stuff like that. So yeah, it lays the boundaries early on, about

So it's, it's a, it's about providing a foundation and starting about like being comfortable in your body, being able to be comfortable asserting your boundaries, some of what we've talked about on some of our previous podcasts. So tell me a little bit about what this this opt out, initiative or campaign is by one of the candidates

so the opt out -I struggled to call A movement because I really don't want to think that it's a movement. But

it implies progress, which it's not right. It's more of a standpoint.

So there is a group in Westar they have a private facebook page that I was able to get myself into some infiltrated it with the help of a friend, see what they were saying. And they, their their main method of organizing has been around the fact that when this passed, it passed with a provision that parents could opt their kids out of the sex education curriculum. So you know, the kids bring a

for a clarification, is it because this is this? You see this nationally, too? Is it a question of the parents consent to the curriculum, or they have the option to sign a paper to opt out of the curriculum?

Yeah, I, I'm pretty sure I'd have to look at it, how it's worded. But I know that the form goes in every backpack, the form goes home to everybody. And the language is either consent to do it or can permission to off

so every parent is making a choice.

Yeah, you don't have to you don't have to request a form to opt your student. Now, that form goes home in everyone's backpack.

And so obviously, we're talking about this, and it's it's mapped to different grades and different you know, you're talking about different things at different levels. So I guess every year you have the option to opt out, right?

Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's parent discretion. Right. Kind of kind of

ironic to be like your consent on behalf of your child. Yeah.

Right. Right. Yeah, that is Yeah. That's something that's a that's a battle that the the more progressive people in western lost when this was when this was happening. But the political reality of Worcester being a little bit more conservative than you might imagine a Massachusetts city to be kind of had to happen for this to go through. So.

So is there a chance and I understand that there's a big school committee election coming up in a couple of weeks, and there's a real chance that this comprehensive sex education could be changed or possibly be eliminated if we're the wrong candidates? Or I don't want to say the wrong but candidates who do not believe that sex education is a positive thing?

Yes. So there are the board recently changed enough to a majority of people who want to see sex education, that it could happen in this cycle. We have at least one candidate who a challenger, running expressly on anti sex ed, and there are other people on the committee who could be swayed that way and share that opinion. There are more challengers in the election that are pro sex ed, then this one, the Her name is Shanel Soucy. And -

this is the woman with the this is the sign Yes,

yes. And we'll get to that. She is she's a leader of this thing that I hesitate to call a movement in Worcester. But like, how I want to put this is sex-ed didn't happen in Worcester for a long time, because they were anti Planned Parenthood people that really controlled the school committee, and they had control the school committee for many decades. And there is a sea change happening right now. We're to get to a more sort of liberal or

your article talking about some of her quote unquote, talking points. Yeah, it seems very similar to what we see the trends nationally that, that she talks about a moral responsibility or a moral objection to sex education, and we should have a moral responsibility to educate our kids because if the schools aren't doing it, and the parents aren't doing it, you are going to be the kids are going to be learning from the internet and learning from pornography. And that's, that's the reality.

So this is though, and we always do this in the episode as we talk about what our methods and our myths today is that you can opt out of sex ed, because to your point, you could opt your kid out of school sanctioned sex ed, they're still going to get a sex education from somewhere, like, we were talking about this earlier. But it's like, they're teenagers, like, yeah, they're gonna figure it

out. It's like, where do you Where would you want your kid learning about consent from like, a curriculum that has your kids best interests in mind? Or from step sister and casting couch videos or Pornhub? Right, right,

right. I mean, it's not a radical perspective of rights, responsibility and respect. Yeah, like that's, that doesn't really raise a ton of flags for me.

No, no, no. And it doesn't

sound pornography, like pornography at all. No, that's what I think a lot of our platform is like, pornography, very little,

that's pornographic about it at all. Just it's it's a it's a very respectful curriculum, I've read the whole thing. What I will say is that there is an organization of fundamentalist like, you know, right wing religious people in Massachusetts called the mass family Institute, that, Pat, like, in the past couple of times that we've tried to get a sex ed curriculum in western and it's failed, they show up to the

yeah, but I think one of the things that we looked into, because obviously, we read your article, and we read actually the series of articles you wrote and looked at your newsletter, but we also watched some of the local news coverage on it. And that was one of the things in the video was one of the parents saying, Well, you know, I'm torn, because I think it's really important to, you know, educate our kids on consent and understanding their

yeah, that's that's a great point.

Very good point. Very good point. It's about and I mean, honestly, you could talk to a parent like that, and say, it's about having tools for your child to navigate, managing and maintaining the rennaissance. Because it's a society and like a system that wants it gone. So if you're really getting going to get on your, your high horse, about that, you think about it that way. Consent and, and respect are very important

Well, I think you mentioned in one of your one of your pieces that we're comfortable having teaching your kids about math and English, and in the area of sex ed, and the health connections to a positive sexuality. Yeah. These school committee members, these people who are teaching these educators, they've done the research. Yeah, like one of the things on the on the video we were looking at from the press coverage, is a parent saying, well, I've got to do the research. No, actually you

right? That's Yeah, and that's very much the idea and I don't, I don't understand how like in good faith, you could argue against that, like it just seems morally reprehensible to argue against wanting that for your children. Yeah,

I think what you're seeing through this candidacy and through this, Massachusetts, quote or hate group is the idea of this fear mongering

fear mongering is very integral to the the, the movement, the reactionary movement to Western passing this, and it very much stems from an an anti gay place. I mean, this this, this school committee candidate is on record saying that she just doesn't agree with homosexuality. Like she's just said it out loud. You know, like, we

have a lot of feelings about that, don't we?

She said it out loud. And a lot of her rhetoric when you when you approach it, from knowing that that's how she feels, it's like, oh, yeah, like this woman has a problem with with gay people and with trans people. And I think that's very much fueling the, the the reactionary push against this curriculum.

So I mean, clearly, there's plenty of things to talk about, about how that's incorrect. But we don't need to get into it, because we all acknowledge that that's incorrect. What I am curious about those is one you talked about infiltrating that group. And I'd love to know, like what you found out, and then to in terms of this candidate, and this being her platform, why do you think that she thinks this is such an important platform to

Well, cynically, I think she sees a lane. Yeah, Worcester is a city of immigrants. There's a lot of religious minorities, that this sort of rhetoric really plays to, and like a lot of a lot of church groups, a lot of tight little religious communities that this this rhetoric really plays to. And that's the thing is, you want to think about it like a white evangelical, like reactionary, you know, q&a type of person who is against this, but it's a lot of Latino people, it's a lot of

now. So let me just take one lap. Take a minute, I'll let you take a breath and And let me let's just take a second to, to provide some, some level of comfort to those parents who are hearing this and, and feeling fear. Sure. And so first of all, the new data that's coming out of the CDC is that approximately 616 percent of our young people are now identifying as non heterosexual, identifying as gay, lesbian,

Yeah. And I think that if you're a parent, and you're feeling uncomfortable, and you've heard some things that make you uncomfortable about sex education, the way it's taught in the public schools, I'd say that a lot of that information that makes you feel uncomfortable is designed to make you feel uncomfortable by people who don't really want the best for your children.

And as we get back to our myth, that you can't opt out of sex education, one thing that we'll do after this podcast is posed a number of resources for parents who do still feel like they want to be responsible. You can opt out of sex education, if you're going to opt out of it in the school. Yeah, you can opt out. teach it. So we will provide resources for parents, some of them will mention is amazed, calm, sex positive

Right, right. And if I can do a little bit of fear mongering of my own, by all means, your child has access to the internet. And there is so much sex on the internet. And so much of it is morally bankrupt.

not healthy. It's not good a surgeon, it's not medically accurate. No, it's not about rights, respect and responsibility.

So if your child is not getting their lessons about sex, and sexuality from school, and they're not getting their lessons about sex and sexuality, from their home, they're going to get it from the internet, which you can insinuate all of the sort of demonic forces you want onto school sex education, that is, by all intents in good faith and has the best interest of your child in mind. Sure, you can do that. But the internet

if you think that blocking your kids and you know, all these filters that you have for your kids are going to work? No. Think again. We what do we think about that?

Yeah, these kids are creative. They know more about iterators.

And they know they know a lot, they're a lot more tech savvy than Personally, I will ever be so. Right. I appreciate your insight on that. Yeah.

So we will after this episode, like we said, we will post some incredible resources. Great. He will also post about the curriculum so that folks can check that out for themselves. Anything you know, I want to reiterate here that we're not necessarily saying, we get to make the choices for you, we

Well Said.

thank you. Alright, I think we're good to wrap this one up. I think it's been pretty clear that you cannot, in fact, opt out of sex ed. Bill, any closing thoughts you want to leave us with?

No, I just, if you're listening to this and you live in Worcester, the city election is on November 2. And there are a lot of good school committee candidates and I would just ask that you don't vote for Shanel Soucy. Fair enough.

So we'll have to our tagline

another myth put to bed. Never gets old.

great having you here.

It's a really fun conversation. Awesome,

is another episode of sex ed debunked. Thanks for listening and continue following us on the socials. And let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to continue the conversation. Have a good one.

Take it easy. See you next week. Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of sex ed debunked. During the course of our podcast, we have limited time together, which means that unfortunately, many identities groups and movements may not be represented each week. The field of sexuality and gender orientations, identities and behaviors are changing growing rapidly, and we remain committed to being as inclusive as possible.

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