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and follow us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Hi, and welcome to Episode Five of sex ed debunked a podcast about comprehensive sex ed, sex positivity. And what are those letters in LGBTQ I actually stand for?
Where are your hosts, Christine and Shannon Curley, thanks for tuning in. Today we'll be talking about sexual orientation. And the myth that everyone is either straight
or gay, or bi, there are so many more options than straight gay or bi. And frankly, I am here for it. Last time, we talked about my coming out story, we got a little teary eyed, there are some allergies in the stereo studio, it's fine. This time, we're going to get a little bit more academic and talk about the reasons why coming out can be so difficult, even when you're fortunate enough to have a super supportive family like I did. So let's get into it. Professor.
So from an academic perspective, first of all, we need to talk about what's called the minority stress model. So the minority stress model is a model that looks at the stigma that is often faced by and dealt with by sexual minorities, our friends, our kids, our family members. And it's critical to understand how this stress impacts mental health and well being, as well as relationship satisfaction and sexual
satisfaction later in life. So a couple of decades ago, a psychologist by the name of Meyer developed the minority -
Oscar Meyer?
no, not Oscar Meyer
different Meyer got it,
different Meyer, but he developed this model to explain how stigma impacts sexual minorities, and those who identify or think they might identify as LGBTQ. As an aside, this model was also has also been used to address other marginalized groups and explain the stigma and the effects of stigma for like race and ethnicity. But believe it or not, it actually started with LGBTQ and sexual minorities. So the basic model, society, for the most part, is
heteronormative. What that means is being heterosexual is considered normal-
quote, unquote,
and every other sexuality is therefore
not normal.
Now, obviously, we don't feel that way. But this is the model. And unfortunately, this is the model in our society, that hetero is normal, normative, and other things are not. So under this model, LGBTQ,
it's a mouthful.
I'm not adding all the other letters for the purposes of this conversation. But they start off believing they're not normal, even if the people around them don't treat them that way. And this feeling that you're going to be judged, because you're different. Yeah,
that makes sense. To me, the minority stress model, it makes sense because you still have an inherent feeling of being an outsider or of being quote unquote, different. So even if the people around you are being supportive, you still feel it in some way.
Right? And so under this model, this feeling that you're going to be judged because you're different, is called anticipated stigma. So it's anticipated, whether it happens or not. And that anticipated stigma is negative. Because it's constant. It becomes this underlying stress living as the quote unquote not normal living as the sexual minority because you don't know that if someone quote finds out, they might treat treat you differently, and they might not
treat you as you anymore. And that underlying stress that anticipated stigma is a chronic stressor. Like any other chronic stressor that we have in our regular lives, like meeting deadlines. And, you know, there's plenty of research on how chronic stress impacts your health, your mental health, your physical health, your
relationships. Under the minority stress model, there's a recognition that the stress of living as a sexual minority, and in fact any other minority is the same type of chronic stressor that impacts health and well being. So part of the reason we have these common prestations is to try to minimize that anticipated
stigma. And just to kind of put it into real world terms like you are may well be, it's like walking into a concert, my most favorite thing in the world for fun is to go listen to live music, if I walked into a concert, and I didn't know any of the words, and I didn't know any of the lyrics, I'd feel really awkward. And I'd feel anxiety and stress, because I didn't belong in that space.
But obviously, so much worse, because you can leave a room, you can leave a concert, but you can't leave your sexuality, you know, your, that othering that internalized othering, even if society is another new or even if a space is another a new is, is part of the problem. So, but I take your point, because anytime you're putting in an environment where you feel like you don't belong, you experienced that kind of
acute stress. But now it's your identity, exact now, anywhere you go, you are worried that, you know, if people quote unquote, knew that you were gay, or lesbian or anything else in between, then they might treat you differently.
And part of the reason that I wanted to talk about the minority stress model is so that more people understand that this is a constant stressor. And the more that we as a society can move from tolerance, to acceptance, to actual inclusion, we are actually improving the health of other humans that we love. Because the risk of coming out is a risk that if I'm myself, someone might no longer love me the same way. Right. And that's a that's a, a terrifying
process. And as you talked about in our last episode, that's why coming out comes happens over and over and over and over again. Because every time you
just don't know. And to, to the point of trying to improve the well being of the LGBT folks that we love, we have to provide that safe space, that they don't feel that stigma of being othered, we have to get away from this heteronormative culture between us and them, and start talking about this whole spectrum, that you're not either gay or straight, you can be many other things. Yeah,
I mean, you want to know that every place you're in is a safe space. And that's not always gonna be the case, there's always going to be situations where you don't feel safe. But that's kind of why like pride is so important is because you know, you're going to a place where you're going to be accepted. And you don't have to worry about that anticipated stigma. Because if I go to pride, then I know that we're all in one community together.
So that would be the idealized state is creating a community of people that you always feel safe around, you know, whether they're cishet or not.
Well, you know, a few years ago, I was attending a conference in Denver, and I was fortunate enough to go to the Denver Pride Parade.
Still jealous.
I know. I know. But it was it was a pride parade. But it was a pride festival. And what was incredible with how Denver how it was running Denver, is it wasn't for the LGBT community. It was for everyone. And it was so like, this is a great big party. This is a festival and we're gonna celebrate all of our differences and all of our similarities in the same place. Because just because someone may have a different sexual attraction sexual orientation, doesn't make
them that much different. We're always going to be more the same than we
are different queers are fun.
And you dress in so much brighter colors, right?
Yeah. The Rainbow is ours back off, but
it was it was it was, it was so it was so fun to see. All ages, all generations, you know, families bringing their little kids running around with their, with their rainbow tutus on and that's what it should all be. This is all a celebration of how diverse we are as beautiful, wonderful humans.
Yes. I'm like, Yes. Thank you so much. Stop, stop, no, continue. But the diversity in the spectrum, I think is important. Since we're talking academic, I had to bring up the Kinsey scale, which is old, it's from like, 1948. I think of it, it's all but it still holds up because the Kinsey scale is, you know, this an academic seven
point scale, basically. But the idea of it was that pushing away from the idea that it's a binary that it's just gay or just straight and not there's actually a spectrum and you know, the scale basically measures which way people lean.
And the study that went into the developing the Kinsey scale looked at, you know, hundreds of respondents rating, they're not just their sexual attraction, but their thoughts and their feelings and their behaviors towards the same or the opposite sex and then kind of landing on this spectrum.
Well, the interesting thing is I find is every generation rediscovers the Kinsey scale. There's actually no at this point, no established set of questions and it has been evolved. There's more scales that have been done based on the Kinsey scale. But the bottom line was Kinsey recognized that our sexuality exists on a continuum.
Yes. So this is the so 1948 was when this was published.Like, hi, that was a while ago, it was World War Two. Like, but one of the quotes from this book, his quote, unquote, the living world is a continuum, and in each and every one of its aspects, this was set in 1948. And like, good, it's good that we keep rediscovering it because it continues to be true is that every aspect of the world, but also every aspect of identity is a continuum. And each and every respect.
Exactly. And what's interesting is that quote, came from sexual behavior in the human male, it took it took several more years 1953 till they wrote sexual behavior in the human female. So there was a why representation is important. Yeah, and, you know, kind of a little aside, in the second book, was very referential to sexuality, in relation and in comparison to the human male. But well, we'll talk about that in another podcast, because I feel
It was 1948 I'm not gonna say it was perfect, but I appreciate that even in 1948, they were like continuum. Stop putting people in boxes Take me out of a box.
Right, exactly. So they're the bottom line with Kinsey, and everything. Everything in science after that, is there are very few people in the world who are all one or the other. I want to tell a little story about one of the classes I took when I was getting my master's at RIC, one of the professors who was teaching human diversity in psychology, who is now a mentor and a colleague and a friend. She actually did an exercise in class around the Kinsey scale. At the time, I didn't know it
was around the Kinsey scale. But what she did was she gave us all piece of paper with a series of questions about attraction, sexual romantic, along the whole spectrum, and had us answer the questions honestly, on the paper, and then we put it in a pile. And all the students took one that was not their own. And then she proceeded to line us up in a row, and ask the questions. And if we answered, Yes or No, we'd take a step forward, or
take a step back. And it was all anonymous, because I had someone else's paper. But at the end of those series of questions, nobody was at the all one end, and nobody was at the all gay end. And everyone had different staggers in between, and to look around the classroom, and realize a diversity in a class of 24, or 28, was a very eye opening experience for me. And it was a great demonstration of the spectrum that we are all existing on.
Well, that's such a important exercise because it shows you that like, again, going back to representation, but just like, I mean, that's contact theory, too, right? Is that when you see, you know, someone who's who's on the spectrum, like it's not just fiction, it's actually in real life in front of you. Right, then you're able to identify more with that.
Well, I think that was that was the powerful aspect of that demonstration. Because, like you were talking about your coming out story, and I'm sure others have that same story thinking. It's only me that feels this way. Like, I kissed a girl and I liked it. Don't even get me started on how, by earth shattering that song was for me. Cherry chapstick never never felt the same ever again. But you know, I've kissed a girl and I liked it. And so for me
Did your boyfriend mind it?
Well, it was a little more recent than that. It's the song
you can't quote Katy Perry without knowing that the next line is hope my boyfriend don't mind it. but I digress,
but the point being that this is not a struggle that happens or, or discovery that happens necessarily just for what they term, quote, unquote, emerging adults from 18 to 29. Especially as women, we are much more erotically plastic, which means we change our attractions throughout our lifetime. And so part of this talk today talking about the Kinsey scale, and the in the continuum of sexuality, is to realize it's not static. You aren't born one way and stay
that way forever. Some people yes, you know, Kinsey will say there are there's a percentage of people on the continuum that are all in gay, all in straight, but the vast majority of us some are somewhere in the middle. And it's not just about sexual attraction. It could just be romantic attraction. Yeah, but just like just like you talk about the rainbow. It's a rainbow for all of humans. experience, everybody
wants to taste the rainbow. But Sorry, I realized that I said contact theory, but we didn't really explain what that is, could you just give a brief academic overview of contact theory? Okay, so
Contact theory is a theory developed in the context of efforts to try to reduce prejudice discrimination, and kind of reduce what we do kind of naturally as people as treating someone as the in group and the out group, us or them is what we're really familiar with. And so researchers who look at contact theory, have found that when we hear other people's stories, and we get to know someone on a personal level, suddenly, we start understanding that their experience, while different, is not that
different, as a human. And so by getting to know people who are part of the LGBTQ community, getting to know their stories about coming out hearing, what they do for fun hearing about their friends, hearing about partners, all of that reduces prejudice and reduces what we would say in psychology as othering. Because who wants to be othered, who wants to have to fill out the other blank?
Well, and I think the way that that develops even further is, you're, you're, you're saying they have other interests, they are full fledged people, it's, it's moving away from someone's entire identity being their sexuality. It's like, it's not just oh, that's our one gay friend. It's like, that's our friend. They're gay. But also, they play sports, and they're a really good chef, and like, you know, whatever
that ultimately, sexual identity. While while hugely important, is not the only defining characteristic of being human, and being your friend or being your family member, or even being like a colleague or co worker. So the more that the more there's this contact in real life, and the more the stories are told, not just in the LGBT community, but
in the wider community. We as a society, can I think I said this in the last podcast, but I'm gonna say it again, we move from tolerance to acceptance, to ideally inclusion, because isn't that what we all want is to be included?
Yeah.And when we talk about that, I think one thing that's really important to talk about is the word queer. I've been using it just like, you know, on all the episodes, but just to explain, because this actually came up, maybe like a month or so ago, talking to one
of our family members. They were like, well, we are we allowed to say queer again, that's like, kind of, I'm allowed to say it, we'll talk about whether you're not allowed to say, but the idea is that queer is one of these words that's been reclaimed by the community. And it's, I think there's been a long history of the reclamation of the word queer, but I've noticed in more recent years that it's being
used a lot more. And I think that's because it is an inclusive term, it's a term of acceptance, it means you don't identify purely as straight, but we're not going to make you decide what it is that you do identify as, right, it's, it is a way of creating space. So not othering. But actually creating space, because I would argue that the opposite of othering is creating space. It's a way of representing all of us without forcing us to say I'm this, I'm not, because, frankly,
I don't owe that to anyone. I don't I don't owe it to you to say that I'm bi or to say that I'm straight, or that I'm gay on any given day, because it to your point, it changes all the time, I am more comfortable saying I'm queer than saying anything else. And not everyone agrees with the term. And there are no valid arguments against it, it does have a really deeply entrenched history with being used as a
slur. But I feel like you know, we've reclaimed it, and it's an identity I'm comfortable with. And it makes me feel seen, and it makes me feel a part of a community that's much bigger than myself. And as we talked about last time, having that inclusion and having that representation, and having that affirmation that comes from community is really, really
important. So, you know, I just wanted to capitalize on talking about that in this podcast, because queer is has a history of being a problematic term, but recently, it's a term that I think makes people feel really comfortable with not being 100% Sure,
well, and I do I, in conversations with other of my queer friends, they express the same thing that this is a way to not to not box you in and to not bring people in. I would be really curious to see whether or not at some point there will be other terms that are acceptable in the broader culture. I mean, I we've had conversations about using words like hetero flexible and by curious and I've actually had debates with other friends
about those terms as well. But I think what we learn about his language matters so much language is important to to feel that you're part of something and you're not alone. So I just want to say to be clear, I always say that you're brilliant that you are creative. You're a fantastic writer. You're an amazing soccer player, and you're part of the rainbow community. So, so I guess we're good.
Yeah, coming back around. Thank you for listening to our academic episode that also digressed into stop putting me in boxes. But the the myth that we are debunking today and that we've attempted to debunk is that it is not simply gay or straight or bi. It is a is a big old spectrum.
So that's another myth. put to bed.
Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the rest of LGBT history month as a sex ed debunked. Tune in for more pillow talk next time next Wednesday weekly at Wednesdays and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, all the socials @sexeddebunked, and feel free to shoot us an email if you ever have any questions at [email protected].
Take care everyone.
Bye Bye.
Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of sex ed debunked. During the course of our podcast, we have limited time together, which means that unfortunately, many identities, groups and movements may not be represented each week. The field of sexuality and gender orientations, identities and behaviors are changing growing rapidly, and we remain committed to being as inclusive as possible.
Please remember that all of us, including us are learning in this area and may occasionally slip up. We ask that we all continue to be kind to one another so that we can create a truly inclusive and accepting environment. As always, if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Sex Ed debunked is produced by trailblaze Media along with myself Shannon Curley and Christine Curley from trailblaze
Media. Our engineering is handled by Ezra Winters