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Hi, this is Sex Ed Debunked, a cross-generational podcast hosted by mother-daughter duo Christine and Shannon Curley.
Every episode, we tackle a new myth about sex, sexuality, and pleasure and use research and expert insights to debunk stereotypes and misinformation from the bedroom and
beyond. In 2022, we won the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists Award for Best Podcast and also managed to not totally freak out our family and friends along the way. We believe in healthy, sex-positive, pleasure-focused sex education backed by real research and real experience.
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter at sex ed debunked or email us at sex ed debunked at gmail.com to share your sex miseducation tales and the myths you'd like to hear us debunk.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, and welcome to sex ed debunked across generational podcast about sex positivity, sexual health, and the eternal question asked by both Pop stars and people are like, what is love?
What is love?
Baby, don't hurt me. Or more appropriately, what is self-love? And how does it relate to things like self-care, self-value, and yeah, sometimes
self-sabotage? Yeah, so on today's episode, we're talking about myths around self-love and relationships. Kind of a chicken and egg question. Which comes first, self-love or relational love? Or maybe they can develop together. Or at the same time.
Which, you know, is kind of how a chicken and egg happens. Just to point it out. That's what's happening inside the egg, you guys. So the idea for this episode was a little bit of serendipity. It started with a meme that I shared with my mom, which also she had seen in some of the groups that she's in. So it's this meme that came across both of our metaphorical desks, I guess.
But what we discovered in this initial conversation and why we wanted to share it with the class was that we have some – Seriously different generational divides when it comes to an understanding of self-love and self-care. But overall, we wanted to talk about it because of this obsession
with self-love. So the meme in bright hot pink was stop obsessing about self-love. Everyone is obsessed with self-love as if it is some secret elixir or the Holy Grail to a challenge-free life. Love yourself first, more and better. Yes, self-love is important, but relational love is actually what makes life satisfying. Deepen this story. So we kind of thought we would. So
yeah, we figured might as well. And you know, if it's meme-worthy, it means that lots of people are talking about it. So why not us? Well, people were talking about it definitely in a different way.
But as we always do, We want to jump into this conversation first by talking a little bit about research, and then we will talk about some of the comments that we've gotten from our audience, our friends, our listeners, whoever, because we think that this is a conversation that requires multiple voices and multiple perspectives. But to start out, what's the research say?
Well, to start, I dig through the psychological literature to try to find a definition. So Brace yourselves. It's a long definition. Brace yourselves. Definitions are coming. Self-love is a state of appreciation for oneself that grows from actions that support our physical, psychological, and spiritual growth. Self-love means having a high regard for our own well-being and happiness. Self-love means taking care of your own needs and not sacrificing your well-being to please others.
So even that definition is a little bit problematic, right? I mean, it all sounds great. Self-love sounds great because you're feeling good about yourself. You're having a high regard for your wellbeing. You're in a state of self-appreciation. All of that's wonderful. But I think where this meme comes into play and where this big, gigantic, necessary conversation comes into play is that's all great on its own and in isolation. But what happens when self-love meets relational
love? Exactly. And what the research is looking at is whether or not self-love and compassion are really good for your mental health and well-being. But when does self-love equal self-esteem, which is a really good thing? But when does self-love kind of cross over to a bit of narcissism? Yes. And so the question becomes, can self-love lead to love for others?
And a recent study, actually about 10 years ago, says no. If you have a self-love that's so focused on yourself and leads towards more narcissism, it's not going to lead to really good relationships and good commitment. Not surprising. But if your self love is focused on a self-esteem that allows you to kind of go beyond yourself, then it can lead to more committed relationships. So part of what we're talking about today is when does self-love... Is self-love too much self-love?
Yeah, yeah. And I want to... repeat that the name of the article that we were referring to is does self-love lead to love for others a story of narcissistic game playing so that is that's a little bit of the extreme of course because we don't want to just say that self-love is narcissism but i think this is where we sort of open up this generational conversation and so when i brought this up to you. And I just brought up the meme before I knew you had seen it before.
Part of what I said was, you know, I have a concern that my generation is so obsessed with self-love and or self-care that it's getting in the way of them being able to create functional, lasting relationships with people. And I think it is because for some folks in my generation, the reliance on therapy and even the sensationalizing of therapy has led to this almost wall around us where it's like everything comes back to my comfort zone and my boundaries.
And how many times do we hear the buzzword boundaries, boundaries, boundaries? And boundaries are so important, but boundaries is just another fancy word for wall.
Well, they need to be permeable and it needs to be a wall that has a gate.
But before we kind of get into that, let's talk about the generational differences because what I found interesting when I brought this conversation up to you is that you had a very different perception.
Very different. And so the group that I was in on Facebook book that posted it was really from my generation when I say, you know, slightly older, 40s, 50s, 60s, self-love was really more about finding a worthiness and a worthiness to the extent that you're entitled to more from a relationship or more from yourself. So it was more in the context of, especially, you know, this group in particular was women, of finding accepting, why do we accept breadcrumbs?
Why do we accept so little from our relationships? Why do we give so much in the hope that we're going to get a little back? And in those contexts, self-love is saying, love yourself enough to know that you're worthy of something good, which led us to say, wait a second, we both have point of views of women. Let's go out there and like source out some listeners to say, let's get the male viewpoint and the viewpoint of other people who have have different life experiences than we do.
Sure. So just a reminder to our listeners that what this meme said was that self-care is great, self-love is great, but it can get in the way of relational love and relationships are what make life satisfying. So for me, I sent this to someone, a good friend of mine, a cishet male, 30 years old, and he said, Well, there's an element of truth there, but I don't know if it's fully accurate.
I think there does tend to be a reliance on the term self-love and while there's absolutely a place for it, the definition is extremely subjective and can lead to issues in how one's actions are perceived by another, especially if it's something that affects the other person. I mean, you should love yourself, but when does that get in the way of someone else?
Conversely, relationships and relational love are important, but it's also very easy to fall into a trap of emotional dependency that ends up costing an individual their sense of self and negatively affecting their psyche in the long run.
Interesting. So that perspective was really about maintaining your sense of self within a
relationship. if you rely too much on it, then you might be shutting people out. And then on the other side of things, but if you focus too much on relational love, then you also sacrifice yourself in the process. So I think, and that goes back to what you were saying about self-esteem being the ultimate objective and because self-esteem is buoying without getting in the way of building a relationship.
Well, which is interesting. So I sourced out a couple of older men, my age. Older. Well, you know, like me. Ancient 50-year-old men. In their 50s. And so we at kind of a different point of view. One was... That's interesting because
Because it seems like he agrees a lot with the meme in that case.
He does. And, you know, parenthetically, this is a gentleman that has five children, but three who are in their 20s. So I think he's seeing some of a backlash of all of that kind of therapy type.
Well, and it's interesting because I remember I read an article, and I'd have to find it to cite to in the episode, but a couple years ago when I was doing research for my master's thesis on different generations, and it was actually doing, and you'll remember this, when I was doing a project on singleism.
Yeah.
I was looking it up in regards to different generations. And I remember reading an article that called, I think it was Gen Z, they called it the selfish generation. You got your silent generation, you've got all these Gen Zs, Gen Y, whatever, but they call them the selfish generation. But I think part of the reason why they're the quote unquote selfish generation is probably because of this extreme emphasis on self-care and self-love.
However, that is really generalizing because it's also a generation that is extremely politicized extremely hyper involved in philanthropy and like global efforts to better the world because of digital connectivity and because of the ways that you can traverse different cultures and environments now because of the internet so as with everything there's different sides to it but I think the point that your friend is making is that you know self-love comes with a price is a really interesting
conversation point and that's definitely where I started having that conversation with you is but when does self-love get in the way of relationships
well and the other The other piece of that, Shannon, is quite honestly, most people in my generation were not... in therapy the way your generation is, which is good. I mean, I understand it's a way of processing anxiety and depression. And obviously your generations lived through a pandemic. It's rough, right? There's a lot going on out there. But for my generation, therapy was not something we did as a matter of course.
Whereas I see it with my friends who are in their 20s and in their 30s, almost everyone has had therapy at some point in their lives. So some of that is our generation looking askance and being like, well, everybody's therapized. But with the same token, we could use some too,
I think. Well, right. I mean, it's what we always come back to, right, is like it should be a balance. Because we definitely aren't encouraging self-neclect, but we're also not encouraging self-obsession.
Right. And that's where I think for me reading that meme is saying it's kind of pointing out that balance. And it's kind of trying to point out that – Research is showing right now that for young people in their 20s and 30s, they are having less relationships. Relationships, as one of my PhD friends said, you know, relationships are important for the brain. I'm not going to quote her whole thing because she wrote something really long and very detailed, which was beautiful and well-spoken.
In fact, we should put it up. TLDR. But relationships are necessary for our brain and connectivity and social support is over and over again in whatever type of research you're looking at is the most critical point of communication. Mental health, physical health, all this wellbeing comes from relationships. So this meme is trying to say, yes, have self-love, but don't forget relationships are important too.
So I do want to point out while we're having this conversation. So one of the folks that I talked to is also a mental health worker. And so I wanted to get her perspective on it. And so I do want to share a few things that she said because I think they're important when we're talking about this meme.
Well, and we're not experts, so we're getting some...
Well, so she said... This particular meme is one I have mixed feelings about. Side note, the language used in this meme can be harmful. It says, stop obsessing about self-love. Everyone's obsessing about self-love. People use the word obsessed very loosely, and this can be harmful to people who are actually diagnosed. Let's unpack that. But this meme downplays the importance of self-love in a way that's almost dismissive, as if it's a secret elixir of the Holy Grail, blah, blah, blah.
She said, Oh, boy. That's a lot. It's a lot. But I wanted to point it out because this is someone who works in this field. And so I think
it's
important to understand that. A lot of times, obviously the reason that people seek out therapy is because they in some way are dealing with their insecurities. And so I think her point is that we live, and this is kind of goes back to the quote unquote selfish generation.
It goes back to your friend pointing out that there's a price is that This generation, my generation, is also being hit left and right constantly with media that makes you insecure and with, you know, podcasts that make you feel insecure and shows that make you feel insecure. And, of course, that's always existed, but we are in the digital world that this generation and newer generations live in just constantly. turns those insecurities up to 11.
Well, and this is true that when we, to go back to the research, there's a large body of research. Interestingly, I'm teaching class right now and ask students to find research that's relevant to them. And a whole handful of them all pointed to research about social media and Instagram and how it impacts image and self-love.
So there needs to be a recognition that this generation does have some challenges because it's constantly thrown in your face, getting you to think about whether or not you're falling short. So that's where the positive self-love and the research comes in is if you're developing a better self-esteem and not feeling like you have to be perfect, you can love yourself in this moment where you are today and still strive for more. Both of those things can exist in the same headspace.
Well, and I want to say, and this is the last thing I'll quote from her, but to go back to your point about your generation, this friend of mine who's in the mental health field, said, So I think the fact that Even though this person, this mental health worker is my age and mostly has clients of my generation, she still points out exactly what you've mentioned with your generation with the need to have self-care and self-love because you don't want to be settling for less.
Right. And some of those stories are stories particularly of women who've been in really long-term relationships and ended up getting divorced or separating from that person because Yeah. you had to be in a relationship to be considered a whole person, the whole Jerry Maguire, right? You complete me. So for that way, looking at self-love is saying a relationship shouldn't complete you. You should be able to love yourself, whether you're in a relationship or not.
Well, I always say you don't want someone to be the last piece in your puzzle. You just want to have two puzzles that look really good next to each
other. Exactly. Exactly. Which then goes back to your point, Shannon, is that self-love for your generation who has much more experience with therapy and much more experience with trying to express your feelings and having more emotional intelligence, you have to be also open to letting other people in.
Well, and that's where the question where we opened this episode, and this is where my perspective came in, was at what point does self-care and self-love become self-sabotage for building a relationship?
And this is something that I've had conversations with A lot of friends about in different communities, in my queer community circles, in my straight community circles, like this is something that's come up again and again is, well, you know, I started dating this person and they were wonderful and they were fantastic, but they had these boundaries in place or they had this this emphasis on self-care, which I. is great and I support that.
But when I wanted to hang out with them, they would bail last minute because they would say, I just need to take care of me tonight, which is fine once or twice or even three times. But when it becomes the reason why you're not building on that relationship with someone because they're constantly saying, well, I don't really want to go out of my comfort zone tonight. Well, the truth is that relationships aren't built in your comfort zone. They're built outside of your comfort zone every time.
And so this is something that I've heard time and time again with people in my generation is I want to respect the boundaries of someone else, but when a boundary becomes a wall, there's no way to build a relationship.
Well, in the research that's coming out, that's come out in the last five to 10 years about young people having less relationships, is just that relationships are hard. It involves stretching yourself. It involves opening yourself and being vulnerable. It's hard. And I think maybe we have to accept that, that it's not hard as it doesn't, isn't a bad word. It only is hard because you have to try to be vulnerable. And that's outside of your comfort zone. It is.
And you're at least two whole people that are different and come into a relationship with your own self-love and your own self-care that you need to navigate. But I think one thing that's sort of been left out of the therapy conversation, and sure, I'm positive there are therapists who are very good at this, but I do think, and we'll share this article that we were looking at together called Why Therapy is Broken.
Yes. And it was
kind of about, you know, there's so much therapy now and so many people seeking therapy that there's no possible way that the quality of all that therapy can be good.
Which interestingly, it was also given to me by a student. There you go. Thank goodness for my students. But,
you know. If you're not taught in the course of your therapy that you do actually have to also bring other people in. And I think that is what this meme was getting at. It didn't get at it in the perfect way. Obviously, there are some flaws in how it was approached. It had to be written a certain way because the internet.
And the
meme world. Right, exactly. But I think part of what it was getting at was if you are always so self-involved in your self-love and your self-care that you're shutting out other people, then you are doing yourself a disservice. And I also want to caveat that relational love is not just romantic. You can also shut out your friends. You can shut out your family. You can shut out new connections if you're always just focused on
You. It's true. And the research on social support does talk about that whole broad concept of relationship. And it also sparks like another thing about self-love. Self-love is also getting to the point where you have that self-confidence to know that you can open up yourself to other people and it's not gonna destroy you. And allowing your boundaries to be more permeable and more flexible can lead to something greater.
And it's believing that you can do that in your world And still you as yourself and your core can still survive with another person entered into that world.
And that's where I think, you know, you go far enough around the circle, both the points meet at the same spot, right? So that is where I think self-esteem is the... the great equalizer between our generations is that for your generation, it was building up the self-esteem to know your value and know your worth. For mine, it's remembering that if you have self-esteem, you don't have to keep throwing up those walls.
Yes. Yeah.
Right? And I want to say, too, that I've had personal experience with this. I've gone to therapy. I've gone to many different therapists over the years for many different reasons, sometimes proactively, sometimes in panic mode. And what therapy has done for me, which is great, is that it's given me the skills to identify where a lot of my hang-up Right.
And I think that is where my generation does itself a disservice is you have to be willing to say, yes, this is where it comes from and that is valid and I am allowed to have that boundary. But also sometimes you do have to permeate your own boundaries or allow someone else to permeate your boundaries to achieve growth. And it's going to be uncomfortable and you're going to feel like a little bit out of sorts.
But it's the only way to build meaningful relationships is to allow someone else to be a part of that narrative. It can't just be, I'm anxious, close the book, see ya.
Beautifully said, Shannon. And here is a great example of a meme starting a conversation that really needed to be had.
See, memes are changing the world. I will say this again. I've said this so many times. I say this to people all the time. The greatest contribution that millennials have given to this world is memes. So you're welcome. You're welcome, everyone.
So because we thought maybe we should have an expert talk to us about this. Now, before we close out for the day, we wanted to bring back our friend Katrina Shepard of Shepard Therapy Associates to give her professional perspective on this subject.
Hey, Katrina. Welcome back to the show. Welcome. For our listeners who do not know your background, could you just give us a quick recap of your background and what brings you to this topic today?
Yes. So my name's Katrina Shepherd, and I'm the executive director of Shepherd Therapy Associates. I'm a licensed independent clinical social worker.
Awesome. As you know, our topic today is self-care, self-care, self-love, sometimes self-sabotage, depending on how far you lean into it. So we wanted to get your opinion on this subject because we've gathered a lot of opinions from our listeners and we have our own opinions. But to start off, I think the best question to begin with is how do you define self-care?
So I define self-care as taking really good care of yourself so that you can be the best version of yourself and better able to serve others in the world.
So how Katrina does self-love play into self-care?
Yeah. So self-love is, I think... somewhat synonymous with self-care. Self-care is the act of showing yourself that you're nurturing yourself. And I wanted to speak to the points of self-care, self-love becoming self-sabotage in relationships with others. And because as a therapist, I hear the buzzwords of self-care, self-love pretty often. And I address it as self-sabotage once someone is starting to use that that as an excuse for negative behaviors.
Just younger generations have been really, I think, influenced by this pop culture idea of cutting out, quote unquote, cutting out negative energy often when that looks like avoiding conflict or ghosting someone or avoiding difficult conversations, things that they would not want done to them.
And behaviors that shut down communication or create barriers to intimacy or contribute to the pain of Feeling disposable or lonely, that contribution to suffering, I think, is a really big problem, given that loneliness has been a public health crisis even pre-pandemic. And we know we're familiar with the research on this, right? It shows like the chronic loneliness will increase the risk of depression or anxiety or substance use. It increases the risk for stroke, cancer, heart disease.
So if you're engaging in these avoidant behaviors that hurt other people, that's when it shifts from self-care to more selfishness or disconnection. Wow.
So you're saying you have an experience with individuals who kind of put up self-love as like a barrier or a boundary to prevent them from getting into more connected relationships?
Yeah, I see that. I think I see that more with more so with younger folks in my practice. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and I think what's interesting, and we talked about this generationally, is like this fear of abandonment can manifest in those avoidant behaviors. But if you're using those avoidant behaviors to avoid being abandoned, then you're not making meaningful connections anyway.
Yeah, right. That's tricky stuff. So Katrina, as a therapist, you see individuals who I suspect some of them would like relationships as well. What type of advice do you give those folks who are putting up these self-love is almost as a barrier?
That's when I really try to delve into more of their personal history and see what is leading to that fear of intimacy or fear of connection. And we do a lot of work around vulnerability. Maybe that person has some past trauma that they want to work on. But I always try to emphasize, you're meeting the client where they're at, but I'm always trying to emphasize the ethics and importance of social connection and meaningful relationships.
Wow. Sounds like some people should be calling you.
So obviously you have clients across generations, and this is something we talked about a lot in this episode and we talk about all the time on the show. But in your practice, what have you seen as sort of generational differences in these approaches to self-care or even the call for self-care?
Yeah, so that's a great question. So in my experience, I've seen older folks in my practice struggling with the idea of self-care a lot more than younger clients. So there's definitely a generational difference there in individual therapy. I see both ends of that spectrum. Noticeably with younger folks, they can recognize that self-care is valid and helpful, while older folks tend to think self-sacrifice is more important.
I think older generations were shaped more by this idea of picking yourself up by your bootstraps in a toxic way at the expense of one's mental health. So it can feel uncomfortable for them to intentionally nurture themselves, at least at first. And I've seen therapy be a really good source of information and encouragement for those older clients, changing their perspective, learning that self-care is critically important for their physical and mental well-being.
And on the other end of the that balance of striking that balance of practicing self-care while showing up for others. And I think it's really wonderful to witness when they're prioritizing healthy self-care and making time for rest and getting outdoors and moving their bodies, setting appropriate boundaries and not using any of these things as a method of avoidance.
So Katrina, talking again about the older generation in the context of relationships, do you find that older couples view self-love and self-care in the context of a relationship differently?
Yeah. And I think that is the noticeable difference is that they, you know, they are more, I think they lean into this idea of self-sacrifice more easily and thereby gaining that quality of intimacy and connection with their partners or their friendships. And they, I think they're more comfortable showing up for each other sometimes.
Yeah.
But learning to really kind of lean into taking care of themselves and bringing the focus back to themselves is where the discomfort, I think, you know, there's room for growth there. I think I see that a lot.
So, of course, the reason we started this conversation was in part because of that meme that I shared with you prior to our call. And so... I wondered if you had any specific thoughts or feedback about that meme.
Oh, gosh. I think that I really loved the part of that where it said, yes, self-love is important, but relational love is actually what makes life satisfying. I think that that is so important. That's just a really important message for people of all ages and all backgrounds. Also, it's important to talk about... What what self-care actually what meaningful self-love and self-care actually looks like. Right.
And I think sometimes it looks not the way that social media would have us think that it looks and it doesn't it doesn't look the way pop culture describes it as being like a spa day or, you you know, or just getting your nails done. It's nice. It totally is nice. And do I take those days for myself? Yeah, sure.
And there's really other healthy ways of practicing self-love, like making that doctor's appointment that you're not wanting to make or, you know, pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. Maybe it even involves talking to somebody that you maybe have some work on, you know, forgiving or like you want of rebuild a relationship that was broken somehow. Um, but it's scary. And the process, the thought of it, the thought of reaching out is really challenging. Right.
Um, I think that true self-love and self care comes from a place of wanting to heal.
I love that your definition of self-love is so expansive that it's not narrowing. It's really broadening, being able to have enough self-love to be open and vulnerable, to heal and forgive, and even to entertain other people in your relationships.
And I think your idea that self-love and self-care includes moving outside of your comfort zone is a really huge one. And again, when we talk about these generational differences, I think there's obviously comfort zones that need to be worked outside of that are different across generations.
But as someone in the millennial generation and something I've seen in the younger generations is using self-care and self-love occasionally to say, I don't want to be uncomfortable and I'm not going to be made to be uncomfortable because it's my self-care to not be uncomfortable. But I do think pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone is an act of self-care because growth is an act of self-care.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think another aspect generationally in the context of relationships that I've seen anecdotally, especially with, um, but I'm sure it applies to men as well, is that self-love realizing that you're worthy of a really good relationship, that it's more than breadcrumbs and, you know, occasional texts or something that you're worthy of a deep committed relationship. If in fact, that is what you want.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that like, there's a lot of hard work that can go into building more self care and self-love. I think, I think it's, um, again, not what, um, We hear it being, it's not what pop culture is always saying that it is. I think that the idea of self-care has really been capitalized on by capitalism and it's a great way to sell a lot of products.
And it's a good way to sell products and not relationships with other people that are in your community, in your own backyard, in your family, right? You know, the things that we know actually keep us healthy and centered And, um, and happy. Yeah.
And happy. I think that's a great takeaway. Self-love is going to lead to happiness.
Right. As long as it doesn't become self-sabotage. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that's just like been this interesting point that we come back to is it's always important to take care of yourself. Um, but like, don't let taking care of yourself get in the way of building relationships that also would bring you that gratification and it would bring you that satisfaction in your life.
Right. I think it's just remembering the bottom line. The bottom line is just taking good care of yourself so you can be better able to serve others and connect with others.
Well, and that should sort of be the reward, right? For good self-care and self-love is that you become a person that is comfortable and confident in building relationships because it's true. And even though we had some people look at that meme and say, you know, this is a little bit dismissive of self-care and relational love isn't the only thing and people experience relationships in different ways. There are always caveats to a meme.
But I think at the end of the day, life is not meant to be lived in isolation. So if you can better yourself to better your relationships and vice versa, two-way street, then you're going to be overall happier and healthier.
Yeah, I agree.
So
self-love should lead to More connections. Yeah. Katrina, we completely appreciate taking the time to give us your perspective as an expert in the field. And just to remind our listeners that, you know, you provide therapy, individual therapy, relationships, couples. You work with the LGBT community. So you are definitely a resource that our listeners could reach out to, whether they're in Rhode Island or in the New England area. So we encourage them to do that.
Yes. Yeah. Rhode Islander Mass. Yeah. Thank you guys for taking this time and having this conversation and holding this space.
Absolutely. We appreciate it. And I'm sure we'll have a future episode where we give you a call soon.
That's great. Of course. Okay. Thanks so much.
So the myth today was that self-love is the end-all, be-all. In fact, there's a lot of nuance to the term self-love, and it, like most healthy things, requires balance and consideration both in and outside of oneself. And as you pointed out, Mom, self-esteem is sort of the end goal, I think, across all generations.
Self-esteem is the way to go. So that's another myth. Put to bed. Put to bed. You missed it. I know. Sorry. What kind of bed is that? Ready? We'll do it again. So that's another bit. Put to bed. Crushed it. And I want to take a minute to thank all of our listeners who took the time to give us some feedback on this meme that we sent out. We couldn't quote everybody, but it's certainly what you guys said to us informed this entire episode. Yeah, please. For
everyone who listens to our show as often as you would like to, we would love to hear your feedback on these different subjects having you be part of the conversation makes it a much more interesting conversation most definitely so thanks so much for tuning in and remember to keep listening weekly for new episodes of sex ed debunked and hey give us a follow on instagram facebook and twitter at sex ed debunked bye now see ya
Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of Sex Ed Debunked. During the course of our podcast, we have limited time together, which means that unfortunately, many identities, groups, and movements may not be represented each week. The field of sexuality and gender orientations, identities, and behaviors are changing and growing rapidly, and we remain committed to being as inclusive as possible.
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