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and follow us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter Hi, and welcome to sex ed debunked across generational podcast about sex positivity, sexual health and how the 12 days of Christmas is just a song about a person whose love language is receiving gifts.
Good, very clever Shannon. On today's episode, we're going to debunk the myth that Baby it's cold outside, it's a song about a sketchball pressuring a partner on Christmas. And instead we're going to look at Baby it's cold outside through the lens of some of the myths we've tackled in this first quote unquote semester, if you will of sex ed debunked a bit of a review before we take our holiday break.
So before we get into a quick history of "Baby it's Cold Outside," the song was written in 1944 as a party song that couples would sing when the party was over. So like so long farewell get out of our house in 1949, and actually won the Academy Award for Best Original Song which I had no idea and that was in the movie "Neptune's Daughter. "But much like "Diehard", "Baby it's cold outside" was not written as a Christmas song.
"Diehard is a Christmas Classic"
That's why I'm making the comparison is because diehard is a Christmas movie much like baby, it's cold outside as become a Christmas song, despite not being intended initially as a holiday classic. However, maybe it's cold outside has had, as we all know, a lot of controversy around it about whether it's a song about pressuring a partner to stay against their own wishes. But we'd like to take a step back and see how true that really is. So let's kick it off.
Alright, so first, let's review affirmative consent. We remember the acronym fries that we talked about several weeks ago, freely given reversible, informed, enthusiastic and specific. Do we have that here, Shannon? Well,
I think the first I think the most obvious one off the bat is reversible, right? Because this singer says that she's you know, maybe she'll stay for another drink. Maybe she'll stay for another cigarette. So for me, it sounds like she's free to make her own choices. In regards to for me the art is there. Because she's like, well, maybe I should go maybe I should say, but it's it seems like it's up to her.
I agree. I agree. And I think it's clear that she is thinking about her options. Maybe not in the most free way in terms of society. But for herself. She's thinking, Hmm, I'm gonna weigh my options. And it's despite the flirty banter, I don't feel like the decision that was was coming from outside of her in the in the context of the opening scenes, at least.
So reversible, I think we'd have reversable covered.
I think we've been through sciatic.
Well. She says that evenings been nice, and that she ought to say no, but that doesn't mean that she wants to say no. And then the ends the song by saying you've been really grand. So I would say that there's some enthusiasm. But then the things that seem to make her hold back on that enthusiasm is really just the perceptions of other people.
Yeah. And that's that's the, that's the trick in the song, right? Because once let's go back now, like you said, Shannon, with the history 1944 1944. She's worried about social norms. She's worried about what other people are right? She literally says there's bound to be taught tomorrow, right? And, and so this is where we talk about our positive sexuality. We're talking about changing those norms and changing that script into being okay to express like, I like being here, you are
grand. And this has been a swell time and to be really enthusiastic about it, rather than feeling like socially, because of other people. She has to hold back. So she's
trying to embrace her posse as him has been squashed by the expectations or perceptions of others. But I think we could make the argument that she would be more enthusiastic if she didn't have to worry about that social pressure.
Well, and I think in her dialogue with the gentleman in the song, she is kind of enthusiastic with him, and then she pulls back and she's enthusiastic, and she pulls back
or she says I ought to say no, but that doesn't mean she wants to say no, that's right. So we talked about our myth way, way back about sexual being sex positive being radical. At this time, it probably still was a little bit radical, but this is almost starting to trend in the direction of like, I do want to say though, well, and
if you think historically 1944 We're talking about the end of the Second World War, right and During the war, what happened? Women had to go into the factories, women had to do more women went to war, women were pulling equal weight. So the norms were shifting in, in lb at probably too slow. But for her in the song, maybe she's pushing those norms a little for herself. And I
think what's interesting is that she owns this narrative, he he's the responder, she's the caller. Excellent. And actually, the funny thing is in the in musical terms, when the caller is called the wolf, the responder is called the mouse. So she's the wolf, and he's the mouse in this song. So that's interesting to keep in mind historically, too. But I think so, enthusiasm, I think we've got reversal. I think we do have enthusiasm. It's just enthusiasm that's being, you know, influenced by
the times. But then I think where it starts to get a little bit is, is the consent freely given? And the reason why I think that's something that people get hung up on is because he the mouse insists, you know, there's no cabs to be had, how can you do this to me? And that does kind of feel a little bit like covert coercion, and a little bit of pressure?
I think it does. I think it I think for those who are part of the quote, unquote, controversy, they see that as pressure, but I think when you listen to the song, arguably, it could just be flirtatious. And it could also be that flirting that women were allowed to do, you were allowed to say no. And it was it was that cat and mouse game, maybe not Wolfen mouse.
But that's that was the script that is has been the sexual script among at least heterosexual men and women in relationships for decades, that she has to say no, and he has to say, Please, and she has to say no, and he has to say Poor me. And not that that's a healthy dynamic. But he to think that was the dynamic at 1944. At the end of the day, he did not actually pressure her to do anything more than she wanted to write and
maybe their communication style is just a little bit flirty. And I think some of this depends on the context of the couple months, much as it depends on the context of the times, but we don't really know anything about this the relationship between you know, this color and this respond or this wolf in this mouse.
I love referring
to typical male part is the mouse. But so like, you know, doing a little bit of unpacking communication literature background, I just like to take things apart, but she asked to borrow a coat, which implies some degree of familiarity. There's definitely an intention to see each other again, because she's gonna It's lend me a code, don't give me your code. I'm running away with it. I'm never coming back and lend it to me. I'll see you soon. So they do seem to already
know each other. So there is sort of a relationship there. You know, maybe yes, he's flirting. And he's saying maybe don't go, but in like, a cute way, you know, and
I think he was the intention was that he was gonna give her the quote, right, he was gonna be like, okay, cool. Well,
they're actually, you know, physically forcing her to stay, he's, you know, pouring her drink and telling him to put another record on if she's gonna stay. And that's kind of nice. That's, I mean, going back to our last episode, that is, you know, sensual mindfulness. He's like, put a record on listen to the fireplace roar off for your drink. In some ways, he's been very attentive to her needs,
and the sensuality of maybe the liquor taste good and warm, and,
and not for nothing. But he does ask the only like, thing he does, really, that's physical at all. As he asks mind, if I move in closer. It's the one thing he really asks any specific about.
And there you go. There's the math, your partner should know what you want. He was able to ask and able to communicate and communicate. And presumably she said, Yes, we don't hear it in the song. But she stayed. So presumably, she was comfortable with it. And she once again was able to very be very specific with her consent, he asked to move closer. And we presume that she said, Yes,
so this is this is some great sexual communication. In fact, I also so you keep calling them he and she because typically, this is done as a duet. But while we're here, good time to revisit our myth that gay and straight are the only options because baby is a gender neutral term, which means this song can be sung by anyone of any gender in any type of relationship. Which, by the way, is an open call for someone to please do a poly version called babies. It's called that sign of
so many different parts. Yeah, yeah. You got a wolf for everyone? Maybe not furries, though. I mean, fairies, if you want.
Well, you know, that is kind of funny. So we're okay with that. But, but maybe more versions of the song would make it seem like it's, it's fun and go back to the fun of the song rather than the controversy of the song. Well, and
it's funny that you mentioned that because there's been quite a number of remakes in the last, you know, decade or so this song really started getting quote unquote, canceled, not really until, like 2018. And that's when sort of around some of the stuff was when it got, you know, people started saying, Oh, this might be a little problematic. And, frankly, it's good for culture to occasionally reassess ratings and see if it's
problematic. We're just arguing in this episode that maybe it's not as problematic as we think. But I know John Legend and Kelly Clarkson came out with another version where you know, John Legend offers to get her an Uber, which is funny updates, and then actually, there was a month Be on Netflix out right now. I think it just came out this year called Love hard, which on the whole was pretty
terrible. But there's a very cute remake of baby, it's cold outside where basically the male responders like, if you want to go just go, it's like the entire saucer. She's like, I really can't stay. And he's like, Okay, let me let me get you over. I got to go away. All right, cool. Let me get your coat like being like hyper respectful. So yeah, so there's been a lot of different versions of it. And I think like we're saying there could be a poly version of it.
The song is open for any and all interpretation.
Well, and then so bringing it back to fries, like you said, there may be there isn't that much specific about the song. And we can't assume that the person is asking the singer wants anything beyond more time and being together. So I think that the specific of the consent was getting closer and the rest is left to when she comes back with the code.
Yeah. So two lines that we should talk about, though, because I think these are two of the ones that concern people the most and probably a valid concern. So one, the responders as at one point, baby don't hold out, which kind of feels like calling her a tease for holding out on him. So I don't love that.
I don't love it either.
This is true. Any thoughts on that? Well, I
think I think we kind of go back to those sexual scripts and the gender norms. I mean, there is the man was supposed to pursue. The woman was supposed to say no. And so the song literally says, I ought to say no, no, no. And she she ought to but you know, she's trying to assert her agency. I think there's a piece of her that wants to explore more time with this gentleman. And I do think he's being a gentleman. I mean, yes. Hold on, hold on. Very sweet.
He's saying a lot of cute things to her. Maybe he's love bombing her a little bit, but
I mean, he was making her feel beautiful. I mean, think about the compliments and think about that. In the love language of affirmation. Your lips are delicious. You're beautiful. I mean, those aren't bad things. I mean, we, we tend to want to interpret it as him pressuring her. But he's basically saying, I think you're
so awesome. And, and you're holding out because I really want more, but in the end, he's like, okay, let's just just sit here on the couch or porn, have a drink and listen to some music. I don't love the language. But I think if you listen to the song, and you go back to the historical context, I don't think it's as egregious as 2018 made it. And as an aside, I thought it was canceled. So I was driving here to do this recording with you. And I asked Pandora and Pandora
couldn't find it. And I asked Spotify and Spotify didn't find it on my phone. But of course, it could just be my phone. But then it came on the radio, and I got to listen to it here. And I was like, this is kind of a fun, flirty song, I guess. So I guess I'm at this point, I am team baby. It's cold outside.
Okay, but we can't ignore the other contentious line in the song, which is when the color the mouse said or sorry, they get the color. The Wolf says say what's in this drink? A lot of people think that that implies that he put something into a drink. You looked at the history, didn't you? Well, I did. And also like, I mean, unless it's a horror movie, like who has just like roofie is just like in their home. But for what it's worth
context is important. And in 1944, what's in this drink was actually a cheeky way of sort of excusing one's improper or unexpected behavior. So like, staying too late at the home of a gentleman color, like, what's in this drink was more of a general Oh, like how silly me I can't believe I couldn't believe I let the night Get away from me like this. But it's not specific to the song or the scenario. So take that as you will.
Well, and in truth, we don't we still do that in our culture. We, we do like to have an excuse. Sometimes, you know, I had an extra couple of drinks at night. And I was I was a little louder than usual. Like, I sang karaoke when I don't usually sing karaoke. I mean, sometimes people do use alcohol to get a little less inhibited. And she clearly wasn't drunk. There was no slurring in the song. And what's in this drink did sound flirty to true,
there's no slurring. Also, I'm happy to report that there are 15 different versions of Baby it's cold outside on Spotify. I just looked up. So if you want to get a refresher on, baby, it's cold outside, you can go ahead and listen now. And while you're at it, go listen to the rest of our episodes.
That sounds great. So let's let's wrap up a little bit. We do think that maybe it's cold outside does talk about communication. You listen to it, as you said it was it's a call and call and responsible and the mouse so called responsible for mouse is a communication right? One says one, one response. They say they go back they go forth. It was it's not like some country songs that are a little more even explicit. So I think this was actually probably a good display of communication,
and a good display. Display of a A woman struggling to find her agency to be able to say out loud what she wants and pushing her own sexual boundaries in a good way, because he's not pushing them. She's the one who ultimately makes every little decision along the way.
Maybe we need a new version, a 2022 version that's, you know, maybe it's cold outside. I'm absolutely saying.
Well, I would like to hear the scent be much more enthusiastic. Yeah. But in the end, she did say it's been swell, which of course is a great term from the 1940s. Right? Yes. If it was, it was in the 70s. It would be groovy. Right? So maybe that's one of the adaptations that you find on Spotify. Maybe there's one that says, you know, maybe it's chilly outside, and it's been really groovy to hang with you,
dude. Girl country. But anyway, it's offering interpretation, but I do think that we've debunked the myth that Baby it's cold outside should be canceled.
Yeah, it shouldn't be canceled. There's a lot worse Christmas songs out there holiday songs out there like Christmas Shoes. Never, never, ever listen to that song. So there you have it. Our first semester of sex ed debunked is a rap pun intended. Multiple puns intended Christmas wraps, wrapping it up, whatever you
want. This pun is intended, our first season is over, we hope you've learned a few things about sex and sexuality and mindfulness and maybe engaged in conversations with yourself and others that you might not have thought of before. We'll be back on January 5, we're going to take a little winter break. We'll have what they call in college syllabus day. And we'll map out some of the myths that we'll be debunking and topics we'll be covering in the spring
semester. We've received a ton of great ideas from our listeners so far, but we definitely would love to hear more. And our goal for next season this semester is to have it be, I don't know, Socratic seminar style, where we take your feedback, and we make our episodes about what you really want to learn about.
Yep. And part of our intent is going to, you know, this was kind of the this was the introduction intro course, we did a lot of myths that were kind of maybe on the more basic side. But our thought next semester is to really kind of dig into some of the topics we covered on a surface level, much more deeply, much more intensely, and a lot more explanation of the research and the academics behind it. And we definitely want your feedback because I think there's so much
to cover in sexual myths. And there's so much that I'm hearing that a lot of people are interested in, and we want to bring the information that you guys really, really need.
So keep following us on social. If you missed any episodes is a great time to catch up. Please continue to share with your friends and family. And for now, I guess that's our first season, put to bed. Have a happy holidays. Happy, sensual and pleasure filled New Year and we'll see you in typical dad joke style. We'll see you next year.
We will we will so have a Happy New Year. Pleasure filled new year, a sensation filled New Year and we love you keep listening.
All right, I know.
Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of Sex Ed debunked. During the course of our podcast, we have limited time together, which means that unfortunately, many identities groups and movements may not be represented each week. The field of sexuality and gender orientations, identities and behaviors are changing growing rapidly, and we remain committed to being as inclusive as possible.
Please remember that all of us, including us are learning in this area and may occasionally slip up. We ask that we all continue to be kind to one another so that we can create a truly inclusive and accepting environment. As always, if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us at sex ed debunked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Sex Ed debunked is produced by Trailblaze Media along with myself Shannon Curley and
Christine Curley. From trailblaze media our engineering is handled by Ezra winters