Running Through 50 Years of Berlin Marathon History with Race Director Mark Milde

should be doing a drop- down week." I was like, "Ah, this is fantastic. I'll take it." So I actually snoozed my alarm this morning and was like, " I'm going to push my workout back because I can." And it was really nice and I will say having a full rest day yesterday, my legs felt fabulous today for my run.

I really felt strong. And I know our runners who are a few weeks out of Berlin, like yourself, or nine weeks out from New York probably really in the thick of it for both of those races. You're at the end of it almost for Berlin and you're really

champing at the bit of greatness for New York. But take those rest days because as much as you feel like you might be missing out from your training, it's going to do your body and your mind a lot of good. So take it from one here who just had one and really appreciated it.

didn't entirely follow it. I ran a few more miles on Saturday than it asked me to, but only a few more because I wanted to run the New York Road Runner's 12- mile training run-

greatness that you're striving for. You can keep going. Of course, there are definitely people, but most of them are very highly trained, very experienced runners, who just keep going and they might be on a training program that would get them to peak at a race. That's something you

might hear, a terminology in the running world. But for most of us, especially those of us who have other roles in life, having a drop- down week is just your intensity decreases. Your duration of your runs will probably decrease. And it gives your body that ability to take a big sigh of relief and say, " Ah, okay, this isn't all tough.

This is going to be fine." And the goal of it is that you come out of your drop- down week stronger, re- energized, and ready to continue training on that uphill cycle towards your race day. So really enjoy

it. Get that PT in. Get that rest in, and reset your mind because gosh, the first time I did a drop- down week, it really helped my mental health I think more than anything because I came into it quite fazed by the addition to my daily schedule of this marathon training. And I came out of my drop- down week ready to go back to it because I saw the changes of, oh wow, I feel fantastic. I really

want to run again. I really want to run long again and I can run faster. So that was the reward.

keep it up. Hopefully, you're out there listening to us on your long run this weekend. We got a lot of them happening right now around the New York City area and beyond, so I'm out there with you. I'm doing 18 plus this weekend, so I'll probably be running with you as you listen to this podcast. Yes. Why am I running? Because I'm running Berlin as I announced last week. And thanks for everybody out there, the words

of support. Thanks for the donations as well. As I mentioned, I'm running in support of Team for Kids, our youth and community program fundraising vehicle here at New York Road Runners. You can find my page on my Instagram, rtsimmel. I would love to have your support as we try to continue to grow our programs to get kids and

adults running in New York City and beyond. It's my first marathon in over 10 years, so I have a lot of questions, and here today to help answer some of those questions, the race director of the BMW Berlin Marathon, my friend, Mark Milde. He'll be our guest in just a couple of minutes and he's going to tell us all about what it's like to race 26. 2 miles through the landmarks of one of Germany's most storied

cities. This is a race that has such a fascinating history, just like the city in which it is held, so I can't wait to talk to Mark. His father founded this marathon back in the early '70s of course, and Mark's going to take us through that incredible history and the family history as well. And then after that, of course Meb will be with us for today's Member Moment with

Paola Marte. Paola is a Team for Kids mentor, a New York Road Runners volunteer, and a four- time TCS New York City Marathon finisher. Paola is going to have some great advice for those of you training for this year's marathon. And then of course, we'll have our Meb Minute. We're on week seven of the 16- week training cycle

for this year's race. Meb is going to help us focus on what we should be prioritizing with nine weeks to go, so stay tuned for that.

Tread. Whether you're running a favorite racecourse from home or exploring new routes outside this summer, Peloton supports your running journey every step of the way. All- access membership is separate. Learn more about Peloton Tread at onepeloton. com/ running. Find the Peloton App in the Apple, Android, and Google app stores today.

The history that it has seen, I think, unparalleled among all the marathons in the Abbott World Marathon Major series, and I am thrilled to have Mark. We sit on the board of AWMM together, so I see him often, and now I get to have him on my podcast a few weeks before I attempt to run his marathon. Mark, thanks so much for being here.

this a great event. Are there any special surprises or things people can look forward to this year for the 50th anniversary of the Berlin Marathon?

attention towards all these races. And we are trying to play on this or to make this a very memorable race, and having had seen you guys, I mean, I think you are now in your 54th year or 53rd year, I'm not 100% sure, and our colleagues in Boston even had their 125th anniversary. So we're picking up things and ideas from everywhere, and we obviously cannot change the basic rules of

the marathon. I mean, it's not going to be 50, 000 meters now because it's 50 years. Although, this might be a tempting idea. No. Rest assured, it's going to be no more than 42,195 meters, which is obviously the normal duration of the marathon, and-

to be part of this anniversary. And we are trying to engage with the Berliners as well in the lead- up in

the run to the race. So we are going to have a kind of exhibition area just at the Brandenburg Gate, which will open up on the 17th of September where we'll be showcasing the history of our race and a little bit also of the marathon foot race, where there's a possibility for the Berliners and for the visitors to engage and get

into touch with us and with the marathon. It's called the MOVE and Home of the Marathon, where we're going to have this on display, where we will have some memorabilia or some nice pictures and photographs of the history of our race, which as you stated before, has been quite a journey from where we started and what happened

in Berlin in the last five decades. This is also the theme of our opening ceremony, which is also something new and something special, which will be happening on the Friday before race day. We will have a big stage at the Brandenburg Gate where we will be celebrating these five decades of running excellence in Berlin.

before computers. If you want to make a copy of a paper that was written on a typewriter, then you had to go next door to a store to get it copied or duplicated or I think they called it Rank Xerox back at that time. So I remember that we kids were being used or had to work in folding up these letters for press releases. Back then, it was not an email blast being sent out, but they were

sent out as letters. These were kind of things where we were starting as little kids to help out my father and the team. I mean, obviously, he didn't do it by himself. There was a strong team of other runners. I mean, my father was a former runner. And a strong team of other runners putting up this race,

and they did it on a voluntary basis. They were all members in that club, and back at that time, there was no wages and money involved, so it was more something you did out of your own ambition. You wanted to do something for the club or for yourself to improve running or to bring running. Obviously, at first, not into the city. It was more like our race was happening like in New York,

it started in Central Park. We were in a state, wood, which was also in the western part of Berlin, so the road that we were running on was under the protection of trees, but next to a highway. So it's kind of something different than obviously how you would plan

a race now 50 years later. And then it was thanks to Fred Lebow and the New York Road Runners who were able to move from Central Park to the five boroughs that at some stage, we took that example and said, " Okay. New York is doing this." I mean, New York is one of these small cities in the world where we can easily refer to and say, " Okay. If you can make it there, we can make it here

as well." Now, that's obviously a little bit easy to say, but I mean, the history runs a little bit deeper. I mean, West Berlin was divided also in three parts. There was British, French, American, and English part. And at some stage in 1981, the French military operation said, " Okay. We are going to organize a 25K race and we're going

to do into the city." And the Allied forces still had some special rights in the city, so here, the German or the Berlin police could not say no because it was something that they were in charge. So when that happened, my father, he went to the police and said, " Okay. If you allow these guys to do it, you also have to allow us to do it." So that was kind

of what you guys did in New York. For example, I think also, back at that time, the Stockholm Marathon was also run in the whole city. So these were the examples that my father and the others were using to get the permission of the city to roll it all out.

do it here. But then the political element, and your father, Mark, he had to know the political rules of the road to make something like that happen, which was incredible, given where Berlin was at that time, a divided city, with these quadrants that the different Allied forces still controlled. Now, I'm curious, by the time the '80s came around, Mark, and Berlin ultimately became reunified, you were certainly

old enough to know what was going on. What was that time like? I mean, we all know those of a certain age can remember what those days were like in the late '80s and the early '90s when the Iron Curtain was falling and the Berlin Wall was falling. And this marathon had been obviously a West Berlin affair because

that's where it had to be. Although, I read that the start was close enough to the wall and to the Brandenburg Gate that East Berliners could see it. They could actually see or were aware of what was going on. That first time that the race was able to run in an undivided Berlin, what was that like?

the runners, going out in the direction west. West Berlin was big enough to hold the marathon race, but then after the wall came down on the 9th of November, very soon, runners from the east showed up and the British journalist, which was at that time very close to us, was calling up and saying, " Hey, you have got to do this next year. You have to run through

east and west." And it sounded in a way easy, but it was not that easy because Berlin and Germany was not unified until a week after the race, so it was still a race through two cities or two countries in other words. So that was kind of very

complicated to organize. Obviously, if you want to take a deeper dive into that subject, I would advise you to talk to my father because he was all in this, but more or less, in a nutshell, the organization back at that time was able to develop a new course which started into the west and now heading into the east,

running through the Brandenburg Gate after three kilometers. And then there was a part... I mean, it was not like, " Okay. Berlin is now unified. Now, let's do 50- 50% of the course in the east and in the west." No. That did not really work out because we always had the ambition of having a competitive and fast course, so there

was always something in the back of our minds. And at that time, if you go deeper into the east, so to say, somehow there are inclines. It goes uphill, so that's why we kind of circled around that, and then ran back into the west. So I would say maybe 70% of the course is run in western territory and

the other in the eastern territory. But back at these days, it was obviously interesting to see how over the years it also developed because I mean, Berlin was changing or buildings were built along the course, so the city

landscape changed. But in the first year, which was a very special race, many of the resources that had been in place for the old marathon were still being used, so the finish line remained the same, and along the course, we made these changes. But it was, I mean, an oversubscribed race. A lot of people were coming. It had a big media

impact, obviously. Everyone wanted to see this and it was for everyone involved a very special race, a special day.

to be in the race on the men's field. And I want to know what are you thinking because there are some really fantastic names out there in the elite field on both the men's and the women's who may not necessarily be the big names that everybody knows, but boy, that's some good times. So what are your thoughts on the elite field this year?

spectators and also the media to know them better. I mean, Kipchoge was winning our race five times, Kenenisa, two times, Haile Gebrselassie, four times, so these were some big names which were also recognizable by not only the runners coming to Berlin, taking part, but also after a couple of years, the normal Berliner. Obviously, not everyone, but a lot of them would be able to understand and recognize

a person like Haile Gebrselassie. I was walking out on the street with him in August and people would stop us. So that's always nice if these big names are there, but in such a year, it's a little bit more challenging. But as you said, we are having the new crop, if I may use that word, coming up and we want to bring them or get them to

know the Berliners. I have one athlete which I'm looking forward in seeing in the race, which I think debuted in New York and it's Kibiwott Kandie. And he has not done so well on the marathon distance, but maybe he has to learn how the marathon is.

He only also has two or three marathons under his belt, but he ran at 58 half- marathon in the old shoes, so in the shoes before the one with the carbon plates-

It's very cool when it starts and it can turn into a warmer run. So fingers crossed for these, as you say, the new kids on the block coming up into this flat and fast race, that they can shine and keep taking minutes and seconds off their PRs.

I mean, Rob being here not too long, I think he already learned that there is this competition, and if someone is doing something good, others are trying to do something similar or maybe even better. So I mean, we have a pretty good cooperation between us. There are no

real secrets. If one of us is doing something which the other organization likes, then we are very quick in exchanging plans and helping others to have the same experience as we have.

always some friendly competition, especially around pro fields. I think in New York we have a bit of an advantage in an Olympic year just having that extra five or so weeks of distance between the Olympic marathon and New York, so we are obviously thrilled to get in the pro field, both of our defending champions coming back, and lots

of excitement around our pro field as well. Becs, Mark Milde is to me the hero of the Abbott World

Marathon Majors. And the reason this is the case is it's really a little known fact that the Six Star Medal, which of course has become the absolute goal of so many marathoners, so many runners around the world are organizing their lives around getting this Six Star Medal, well, it was Mark who some years ago first even had the idea in his mind to start tracking how many runners

had run all six of these races. Before there was a medal, before there was anything else, Mark started tracking this all on his own, is my understanding, and put together... I believe, Mark, it was a piece of paper. It was a certificate that you would send runners who had completed all six of these marathons, and then that later turned into what we now know as the Six

Star Medal. So Mark really to me is the brains of the operation when it comes to the Abbott World Marathon Majors. Mark, take us back to that. What first prompted you to start thinking about that and start collecting the names of the people who had run all six of these races?

of thought was also worthwhile to pursuing it. Back at that time when World Marathon Majors was founded, it had a stronger focus on the elite side of the sport, so we were collecting or recording the times of the winners and then making an aggregate. And over two- year periods, we had the winner and the most successful marathon runner

on the earth in that period. And then it was kind of because we in Berlin, having the so- called Jubilee Club where we record the names of people who have finished our race more than 10 times, so if you do this and you're a member of the Jubilee Club, you get your own personalized bib number, which all the years that you enter and the future years, it's your number

to keep. It's protected for you. It has a different layout or different a color, background, so this is some special thing for these runners. And combining the idea and the experience we had with this Jubilee Club and the drive of collecting things, it made it such in a way obvious choice to do something also, not only for the elite runners, but for the average runners. I think at

first, we were calling it in the paper. I just looked at recently, the Fitness Club Runner. I think that was kind of how we were trying to call it. So I think over a period of two, three years, I was putting this idea forward to my race director, colleagues, and well, I mean, after the third time, they said, " Okay. Well, if you want to do it, then please go ahead, do it. You organize it on the Berlin

side." Back at that time, I mean, the World Marathon Majors was also a smaller operation. I think there was just one person, general secretary, who was doing everything, and otherwise, the races would do some stuff for the good of the group. So Berlin, I think, it was 2011 or 12- ish, we started taking it

more seriously, and yes, you're right. The first thing when people signed up to us had said, " Okay, I did it," and then they had to send in their certificates to prove it that they actually did it or we were looking at the databases, and then we were sending out

a certificate of these. Back at that time, five races, and then Tokyo joined, and then we had the first Six Star Finisher, and I think the name Six Star Finisher was also framed a little bit later. So it kind of all took place over a period of a couple of years, and now, yes, we are here and I'm obviously happy with others as well who chipped in the ideas

in this operation to have such a successful program. And it really keeps runners moving around the world for the sake of this medal and we have seen people or runners having this medal tattooed onto their body, which is then of course something so special.

saw the power in that. It really changed the sport in so many ways from the recreational runner's point of view because yes, the elite field is always exciting to talk about, but when we talk about what makes marathons and the sport of running so special right now, it is the mass participation, athlete, people like me who are flying across the ocean to go, and in my case, collect

my second star. But there'll be a lot of people- Yeah. I guess beginning the journey, finally getting out of New

around their neck. And that is something that I don't think anybody clearly saw. You saw it and it really changed the sport. And Mark, I think it also benefited your race so much, right? Because-

because, I mean, Europe obviously is a smaller place. It's easier and accessible from many countries, but the numbers of overseas runners and especially numbers from the Americas have grown very strongly. We could see that back in these days, we usually also traveled to the New York City Marathon Expo and making promotion of our race, and we saw these many Mexicans, Brazilians, South American runners taking part in the

New York City Marathon. So after they had done this three, four times, they were probably looking what else is there to discover, and then they found our advertisement of the six World Marathon Majors or back at that time, five World Marathon Majors in the program of the New York City Marathon and seeing us at the expo. And I think that made them click and our numbers, not overnight, but over the years,

increased from the Americas and especially South Americas. And nowadays, we used to get the highest number of runners from Denmark, which is the neighboring country up in the north from Germany, and they came here already back in the '80s because there was not such a big marathon they were having there, and the alcohol was cheaper over here. So that was kind of the explanation why so many Danish runners

came to run in Berlin. They came down here and after the race had a pretty good time or during. I mean, probably even before the race. Now, the number or the Danish country or runners count has been going down, and now we have the most runners from the United States. I think this year, we've got 8, 000 coming for this weekend to run with us, and the number

of Brazilians is also high and Mexican runners. So still I think Berlin was put into the conscience of the Americans by being part of the World Marathon Major. So yes, it has, with this program, definitely lifted the interest in runners from all over the world to come to us and take part in our race, so it's also a movement which created a strong demand.

Rob. Let's talk through the course. For anyone out there who hasn't run Berlin, obviously, it is deemed as one of the fastest of the Abbott World Marathon Majors, alongside Chicago. I've done all six and I personally think Berlin is flatter for some reason. I just remember it being just flat, flat, flat, flat, flat, and my legs were incredibly

sore in a whole new way the next day. What advice as the race director would you give our first- time Berlin Marathoners out there?

the course. And then if you've got still enough power in the second half, then go for it. I mean, you were saying that it's flat, flat, flat. It is. I mean, although, we are 32 meters above sea level and the highest point is 52 meters above sea level, which is 20 meters and the incline is gentle, I mean, there are two three bridges where it's a little

bit steeper incline and then decline. But compared to especially in New York with these bridges, our bridges are so little, so small, so that is not the problem. But nevertheless, and also depending a little bit on the weather conditions, you can usually do good here. But also my advice would be to run a negative split. I think that's something which gives you also a better feeling during

your journey through Berlin. I mean, we want you to have a journey of joy and not a journey of pain, so we doing our best to help you with this matter. Also, there might be a change or something different. I mean, I'm not 100% sure if that is now done at American

races. I remember when I was running New York in Boston, which is also some time ago, that there was no food along the course, and I tended to get hungry during my races, so I was happy to grab a banana or an apple. I mean, nowadays, we have gel.

some stomach problems. But now, we are using Maurten, which is an international-

Rob, that you will enjoy what we're doing there. I think there's something special which not all of our colleagues are doing it, that might be something that is also not so easy to replicate to other races. We got a lot of video screens in the starting area for the people who are waiting there and who are maybe not as

focused as other runners. Becs, what was your time? Were you in a tunnel or were your attention of what was happening around you?

also inform you of what's happening. So you will see the race goes off, the elites take off, and then you're still waiting or moving forward to the next position. And you can see that okay, now, the leading guys are at 10K, and Kipchoge is in the front or is not in the front and so on and so forth. So I think that's quite enjoyable and is already kind of doing... The time wait does not seem so long.

Also, our announcer is doing some crowd entertainment, which also gives you I think a good feeling of the journey you are going on for the next couple of hours. So that's I think something to look forward to, depending obviously also on the weather, but I think the last time we had really, really rain was in 2010. It was

raining from beginning to end. In the other couple of years, there might have been, I don't know, one- hour episodes of rain, but usually, we do have quite good weather conditions.

it's a tough day out there. It's a long time. And I can still... One of my favorite photos that has ever been gifted to me is from my Berlin Marathon experience of coming around the corner, and there was the big speaker system around 37, 38 kilometers, and it's a corner up.

And oh, my gosh, it was electric and I will never forget how much of a boost it gave me to get through that pain, to continue pushing to get my goal of a sub- 3 hour marathon at Berlin and follow those blue lines. So I know our listeners here are running. Rob, I can see that your smile is getting bigger and bigger with the nervous anticipation here.

think there it is, that's the finish. That's not the finish. You have to keep going past the gate to get to the finish line, right?

the same distance, 350 meters to go. And he distanced himself from his competitor and I think he had 10, 15 meters lead, and the guy he was beating was the pacemaker. All right? So they were on course for the world record, and then because it was still one minute to go, the pacemaker gained step by step again. And then

there was this discussion, " Okay. Did the pacemaker let Paul Tergat win because it's Paul Tergat, the big champion?" And I would say, " No, it's not because he was not aware that the finish line is not the gate, but it's behind the gate." So he miscalculated his efforts and that's why he only barely hold on to beat Sammy Korir. And he finished in a world record time nevertheless, 2:04: 55, and that was 20 years ago.

to be there. What's special about your after- party and all the things that the runners can do to celebrate their accomplishment in Berlin?

usually, I mean, it's already uplifting. I mean, if it's one of the stars there. I mean, you're very close to meet Eliud Kipchoge, Kenenisa Bekele. That will not be the case this year, but we are going to create other stars which will enjoy the race and hopefully the dancing

afterwards and all that comes with that. And I think that you can have a good time either because you did your PR or you want to drown your not PR, in a way, which still reminds you the next day that you did not do so well.

TCS New York City Marathon. Paola has completed four TCS New York City Marathons with TFK, and this year, she'll be volunteering in the start tent supporting her fellow members as they begin their 26.2- mile journey through the five boroughs of New York City. Now, here is Meb.

biggest goals. So for my 30th birthday, I decided to join Team for Kids, and of course, being surrounded by the sea of green with all of these beaming, smiling faces, and everybody willing to help, I just found this

huge sense of camaraderie and friendship. And it was such an inspiration for us to be working together towards a one common goal, and be able to complete the marathon together, while also helping all the kids to me was such an incredible experience.

of... I want to call us The Fab Five. Of these girls that I went to, to run the London Marathon with Team for Kids, and also had a trip after for Barcelona. But even during the pandemic, these were the girls that I really leaned on when I didn't have a lot of other things to do in my life, and these are the ones that have been there whenever I have an issue with a relationship or an issue with family

or an issue with anything that's even outside of running. These are people that have never really left my back and I never had that experience before Team For Kids. Especially finding friends at such a late game, you don't really hear in your mid 30s finding some of your

best friends. Usually, your best friends come from high school or college, but these are the people that have really shown me how you can be resilient, who you can get through anything, and still have just a lot of positivity and friendship in your life.

learn from these contrasts, experiences? I'm pretty sure, I mean, some of your friends might be there and it took a little bit longer to socialize, but can you tell us about it?

Just thinking about 2019, I was in that. I had caught the PR bug and everything was being super competitive with myself and I have to get a PR, get a PR. So I ended up wiping an hour off of my time in two years because I was so consistently

training. And I was incredibly proud and it was such a great experience, just crossing that finish line and knowing that you had achieved this, and with the support of all of my teammates, but then the pandemic happens, right? Pandemic happens, and then you kind of lose a little bit of your attraction, and my life goals just completely shifted. I have a very demanding career. I got married

during that time. I moved out of the New York City areas. I live in the suburbs now, and just completely different life circumstances, where I found it so incredibly difficult to train for a marathon the way that I would have in the past. And it was not my best of training seasons. I still showed up. I would not encourage that, but I still did show up. I was trained not at my best, but I ended up walking most

of that marathon, Meb. I ended up walking it, and to me, my old self would've been disappointed because I'm super competitive with myself, but I think that it allowed me to see the experience in a completely different light

because then I started earlier. I was able to really take pictures with everybody in the crowd, and I was able to talk to people on the way, and really see New York City, as opposed to being so focused on just breathe, hit the right steps the right way, just so that you can get that PR. So even having the opportunity to see the energy in New York in a completely different light, I walked into Central Park with my

head up high, and I was like, " I'm just going to finish this, and I'm going to have a great time, and I'm going to have dinner with my friends after this that I haven't seen in a while." So you just have to learn how to love every experience that you have with the marathon. It's not always going to look the same and it's the beauty of it because no one is judging you. No one is judging you but yourself.

money's worth, taking time, kind of taking the scenery." So it looks like you did that, and for me, running for Team for Kids in 2018, that's what I did. Sometimes you run for PR. Sometimes you run for a cause. And just being able to enjoy the environment, being able to enjoy the audience and the crowd, you got to take your time and enjoy the whole process. So a lot of fun way to

live. But what advice would you give? As busy as you are, what would be one advice that you would give to somebody having a balanced life and still be able to do run, walk a marathon?

anymore. Right? Always do this because it's fun to you, because you enjoy it, because you love the camaraderie that you get from your team members that you're running with on Saturday morning or Wednesday nights or whenever it is that you're doing this. But always do it just for you. Do it for you and know that you're strong enough to get to that finish line no matter what

comes. If you need to take a step back and do it slower, always do that.

would finish one, let alone six of them. So just being able to get to that finish line and have that confidence in myself that I could get there, that I could get there in one piece, and still smile at the end and enjoy my weekend. I just never thought that was something that would even happen. So just running in itself is a huge surprise for me.

The first thing that goes into my stomach, into my body is protein shake, and then the recovery starts with ice bath, Normatec, stretching. It is literally a 24- hour job when you're an elite athlete and as everyday athlete,

you guys are so busy. You need to do the small things like hydration, nutrition, and rest when you can because the recovery days are as crucial as it is for me, as for you because you are always on the go, so make sure you prioritize recovery as much as you can.