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Thank you. New York. Today we're reminded of the power of community and the power of coming together. Athletes on your mark.
The first woman to finish for the second straight year here in the New York City Marathon is Miki Gorman, a smiling Miki Gorman. And why not? 2: 29:30, the time for good advice.
Look at the emotion of Shalane Flanagan as she comes to the line. Pointing to his chest, pointing to the USA he so proudly wears across his chest. A great day for Matt Kapustka.
Hey everybody, and welcome to Set The Pace presented by Peloton, the official podcast of New York Road Runners. Happy holidays to everybody out there. As we get closer and closer to the end of the year, we're thrilled to have you with us. I'm Rob Simmelkjaer, your host and the CEO of New York Road Runners. My co- host,
Becs Gentry from Peloton. She'll be here a little bit later in the show to join me for an awesome interview we had, but she had to run out to teach a class, so she'll be back in just a little while. Well, we are just about there at the end of a great year of running here in New York.
This past Saturday, we got to celebrate the start of the winter, but also a truly banner year for New York Road Runners. Our team, our runners, our members with an appropriately named race, the Frosty 5K, a 5K out in Brooklyn. So much fun in Prospect Park. It was frosty. Over 3, 300 runners showed up at 28 degrees at start time in Prospect Park. Lots of people in costumes. Santas and
reindeer and snowmen and Elsas and Olafs and the whole thing. It was a great, great day. I wasn't able to be there, but I saw lots of great pictures, not only from adults and our staff, but also the kids, the rising New York Road Runners program was there. We had races for the kids ages two to 18, and it was great to see them out there. Of course, this is like the magical time of year for so many of
those kids. So they got a chance to run and then everybody got a little hot cocoa, which was much needed at the end of the day out in Brooklyn. So thanks to everybody who came out to run on Saturday. Also looking ahead to New Year's as well should be exciting. But we had three great winners on Saturday, Jared Moore, the men's winner, 16:03. Abbe Goldstein on the women's side, 16:
45. And Sean Rankin, non- binary at 19:51. For those of you who are running on New Year's Eve for our annual Midnight Run, we are so excited for that race. It's going to be amazing. It is, by the way, sold out as of the moment of this recording, which is very unusual. We don't usually sell that race out until much closer to New Year's Eve. But it's already
sold out so people are excited to run. And by the way, one little bit of something new for this year's race, we're going to have a drone show instead of fireworks this year at the Midnight Run. That's right. A lot of you are accustomed to the big fireworks show. This year, we're changing things up. You might remember, before all this rain we had in New York the last few weeks, there was a drought and a real
fire risk in Central Park. So we were asked by FDNY not to have fireworks. We pivoted, decided to have a drone show instead. Something that we've been thinking about doing for a while actually. And so the drones will be in the air. Drones are a little bit of a hot topic right now around the New York City area, but these are going to be drones that we know exactly where they're going. They're going to be in
formation. NYPD, FDNY, everybody knows about these drones and they'll only be visible really in the immediate area of the race. So no reason for fear folks. These are our drones that'll be part of the show on New Year's Eve, and we look forward to ringing in the New Year with so many of you that night.
Ready to level up your running? With the Peloton Tread and Tread+, you can challenge yourself anytime, anywhere. Whether you're building strength or working on speed, Peloton has a class for every goal, from five to 120 minute workouts. With muscle building classes and flexible training options, you'll have everything you need to crush your next race and then recover
from it. All access membership separate. Find your push, find your power at onepeloton. com/ race- training. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner for New York Road Runners
Today on Set The Pace, we're joined by a great friend of New York Road Runners, Nev Schulman. If you watch MTV, you know Nev. He's a TV host, a father of three, and a passionate runner. He's known to millions as the face of MTV's Catfish show. But Nev's life took a scary turn, scarier than being catfished, in fact, this past August when
a bicycle accident left him with a broken neck. But amazingly, just three months later, he defied the odds by completing the TCS New York City Marathon as a guide for Achilles International, helping a blind runner, Francesco Magisano, cross the finish line. And he's here fresh off running another race, the Pyramids Half Marathon in Egypt. And Nev will join us to tell us all the incredible lessons that
he has learned in his career. And of course with all the recent drama he had with that very serious accident on a bike and his recovery to run the marathon. And just like Nev Schulman, our featured member of the day, Dietmar Stork, is a devoted runner with a love for all kinds of races, from milers and marathons
to overnight, ultra- running adventures. His love for the running community drives him to be a dedicated volunteer as well, making Dietmar an irreplaceable member of our New York Road Runners community. Stay tuned because later in the show, Meb will be here with Dietmar who will share the inside scoop on what it's like to lead a team of volunteers at the starting line of the TCS New York
City Marathon. And as the days continue to get colder and shorter, today's Meb Minute will focus on what you need to do to make sure you stay safe on your winter run. So stay tuned for that.
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Nev Schulman's connection to running started as a little kid watching the New York City Marathon finish line with his father, a tradition that planted the seed for what has become a central part of his life. Since running his first marathon in 2015, Nev has completed countless races from 5Ks to ultra marathons, sometimes on his own, sometimes as
a guide for visually impaired runners with Achilles International. Running for Nev is more than a sport, it is therapy, adventure, and a way to build community. And as you'll hear, running specifically the goal of running the 2024 TCS New York City Marathon was what gave Nev the inspiration to recover, in record time, from an injury that could have
changed his life and his running forever. And Nev, it is so great to have you on Set The Pace. We've had a chance to meet at a couple of finish lines, and we're just thrilled to have you on here. Welcome.
Thanks so much for having me.
It is so good to see you. It is so good to see you moving. Well, we're way after the fact now, but we're going to get into the nitty- gritty details of what happened to you last year. I haven't actually spoken to you since then and it's so good to see you being you.
Thank you. It feels good, too.
So okay, let's get on the readers straight into it because I feel like once the readers... The readers. The listeners understand what you went through last August, correct?
This August.
This August. This August. Yeah, August of 2024. So Nev had a really, really terrible accident. And I don't want to put it into my words, you lived through every moment of it. So can you tell us all what happened?
Yeah, in very simple terms, I was riding on my bicycle and miscalculated some traffic patterns and ended up colliding with a car going over my handlebars into the back of what was a delivery van, work truck. And I don't remember anything after that. I woke up on a stretcher getting loaded into an ambulance. And at first I
thought it seemed as though I was okay. My hands hurt a little bit, but I didn't have any obvious injuries or broken bones that I could see. But upon further inspection, it became clear that in the accident I had broken my C6 spine vertebrae, so I had what's called a stable fracture in my C6, which required immediate spine surgery to alleviate pressure on the spinal cord, which
was causing nerve pain. So I was rushed to Stony Brook Hospital, which has an intensive care unit for spine injuries. And within 12 hours I was in the operating room having what's called a laminectomy, which is actually a pretty common procedure used to relieve pressure from herniated discs or spine- related issues. So it was a wild 24
hours. I spent the next six days in the ICU being closely monitored for what many doctors and nurses assumed would be an injury that would've caused some paralysis, but remarkably it did not. And I walked out of the hospital a week later. And yeah, that was my August.
Wow, that is petrifying. I can't even begin to imagine, not just you personally hearing those words that you've broken your neck, your spine injuries. They're just things that you think, no, no, that's not happening to me right now. But did they tell you straight away that you were going to be paralyzed or was there some time where it was we have to wait and see?
Well, what was probably the scariest part of the whole experience was, I'm not typically a very dramatic person in terms of my reactions to injuries. I often just assume, okay, it's fine, it'll be fine. It's not that bad. So initially again, as I took stock of my body, I thought, okay, I don't have any giant wounds. I don't have any bones sticking out of my skin. I
think I'm okay. But I kept complaining about my hands hurting. So they did the MRI and there was a real shift in the energy in the room when it became clear that I had a spine fracture. And when I got to the second hospital, I could tell that every doctor and nurse who came into the room, upon seeing the chart and the headline of cervical spine fracture just assumed that I had some paralysis or that there was
going to be some long- term paralysis. So every time they came in and they said, " Okay, we're going to do some basic tests. Do you feel this?" And they touched my leg and they said, " Wiggle your toes." And every time I could do all of those things, and I said, " Yes," to do you feel this? I could see that they were surprised, which was both a relief, but also added to the concern that, wow, I guess
this injury typically doesn't go this way. And most people who come in here with this type of an accident are not feeling and saying yes to these things. So I knew at the same time how lucky I was, but also how serious it was and could potentially become. Because with nerve- related things, you have to watch it closely
because it can change and anything can affect it. So there were still a lot of variables that we didn't know how they were going to turn out.
Nev, how long did it take you to get out of the hospital, to start moving again? What was that immediate period like? And I'm curious how it must've gone well for you to even have a chance to think about running a marathon.
Yeah, I was in the hospital for six days. I got in there Monday night and I left, I think, Sunday. But I remember even on, I guess it was probably Wednesday, not to get too graphic, but I had a catheter for the first two days because I was knocked out for the surgery. And when I requested to remove that, I've always been a little, I don't know what the right word is, but I get stage fright
when it comes to urinating, not in a toilet. So I remember on Wednesday I said, " Hey, I really need to use the bathroom, but I can't mentally get myself to do it in a bedpan. Can I please go use the bathroom?" And the nurse was so confused and surprised that I was asking if I could get up to go use the bathroom because that is not something people typically ask to do in this unit of the
hospital. She had to go and get the doctor and ask, " Is it okay? Are we allowed to let him up?" It just wasn't protocol that they were used to dealing with. So they eventually decided to let me do it. And once I got up on my feet, it was very hard to get me off my feet. Obviously, I was exhausted and I needed to lay down and rest a lot, but I also wanted to move. I wanted
to walk around the hallways. I wanted to try and keep myself active as much as possible, even from that first week, which again came as a very strange but welcome surprise to all of the staff at the hospital because it's just not something, I don't think anyone else who was there that week was doing. I walked past those rooms many times and everybody else on that floor was laying in their bed the whole time. No one
was getting up like me. So that's how I knew initially that, okay, I'm going to be okay. I'm already further along than I think anyone expected. And I had a brace that I wore and the doctor told me I'd be in the brace for at least six weeks. So initially I thought, okay, for the next six weeks, I'm obviously going to be pretty immobile. And I found
some sort of workarounds. Obviously, I started physical therapy and they had me on the reclined bike, the recumbent bike, which allowed me to get a little bit of movement in. I got myself one of those mobility scooters so that I could at least get around the neighborhood. I walk my kids to school and go grocery shopping and
not be completely reliant on anyone else. But it was pretty disheartening because the injury, the healing of my neck was obviously happening. The incision had to heal. The muscles in my neck were injured from the accident and the impact. But then of course, they started to atrophy from not using them because of the brace. And even just going for a five- minute walk around the block was
difficult. It was really hard. My shoulders would get tight, my back would start to hurt. It was very discouraging. So initially I really was very skeptical on if and when I'd be back to a fully able- bodied and certain running status. So it was unclear how it was going to go for a while there.
Wow. And I want to ask you, because you are very motivated. You're a very headstrong guy. When you were cycling at the time, were you going to pick up your kids from school?
Yeah, it was August, so the kids were in day camp.
That was it, right.
And I was on my way to pick up our then two- year- old or almost three- year- old from camp in the afternoon. So obviously in retrospect, I'm glad it happened on the way to camp.
Of course.
It could just easily happened on the way back.
I bring that up because as a parent and as a partner, I can't imagine Laura's freak- out when she probably, first of all, they're like, " Okay, well your child hasn't been picked up yet." And she's like, " This is strange." Gets the call that you've had this horrific accident. And how, as a parent and as a very strong- willed person, how did you utilize the love and the support of
your family? I'm lucky enough to have met your wife and you guys have such a beautiful connection. I met your gorgeous son a few years ago. You can tell that there's so much love. How did that motivate you to get your butt out of the hospital?
Yeah, I still will never really fully understand the roller coaster that my wife went through over the course of this whole process. She got the call from the school or from the camp that no one had come to pick up Cy yet. So she knew something was strange because she had seen me leave to go get him. So she got in the car, and then I think...
My timeline of this is a little fuzzy. But she obviously then got a call that, " Hey, your husband's been in a bike accident. He's on the way to Southampton Hospital." But from what she had been told, it was, " He's okay." Because I was talking. Again, I didn't have any massive major physical visible injuries. So they just assumed, " Hey, we're taking him to the hospital just to get him checked out,
but he seems fine." So she thought, okay, I'll pick up Cy and then he'll come home from the hospital either after he gets checked out or we'll go see him, whatever. So it was a little confusing. She then came to the hospital right around the same time that they discovered, that evening, that I was going to need to be transferred to an ICU because I had broken my
neck. So it all happened in that evening and she realized, oh wow, this is not just some small thing that is going to be over now. And over the course of that week, but even more so the next four weeks, I really... And I've been very aware of and appreciative of the support I have and the family
that I am blessed to be a part of. But I've never really appreciated fully the level of care and support and selflessness that it takes to go through something like this with your partner with whom you have children.
Because what she had to do and the responsibility she had to take on and the stress and the burden and the just management of all of the factors and feelings, and the hospital stuff and the nurse stuff, and getting me a chair, there was so much that had to happen that I couldn't do or be a part of at all. And I hate to, not that this is the word, but there's the business of caring for someone is
immense. And seeing her and my other family members, my uncle and my mom who flew in from California, and everyone who just dropped what they were doing and said, " Okay, this is it. This is what we have to do now. We have to all chip in and support Laura and the kids." Because I was essentially taken care of, but there were so many things that needed to
also be handled. And so seeing that really, I remember I was sitting with my mother, Laura, my uncle, and they were on the phone, with the hospital and they were dealing with other... And I just started crying. I just couldn't believe the amount of care and love and support that I was feeling from my family in that moment and how much I needed it and couldn't do without it. It was very humbling.
I think that's the right word. And you're lucky to have it and you wish you didn't need it in a moment like that. 100%. Okay, Nev, so I've got to ask you. When did the thought of running the marathon even sneak into your mind? Had you already planned to run, you ran as a guide with Achilles, was that already on the calendar in the plan when this accident happened?
So yeah, last year I ran as a guide with Achilles, and it was such a incredibly meaningful and fulfilling experience, and it was exactly the thing I was looking for in my progression as a marathon runner. Having run the New York City Marathon about I think six or seven times, I realized, okay, there's got to be more to this. How can I find more meaning? How can I find more deeper
satisfaction in this event? And so I guided last year and loved it. So I immediately then guided with Francesco in Boston in April. We had such a good time there. He invited me to be his guide again this year in New York City, so I had already agreed to do that. I was also working with the incredible coaching app, Runna, with whom I have a partnership.
And so do we. Of course, we love Runna. Absolutely.
And so I was actively training for two upcoming events with them. I was going to run I a half- marathon in the UK, the Great North Half, which is this incredible race, which I've-
Big event. Becs knows well, I'm sure. Yep.
So I was training to set my new PB for a half, which was, I think, in September. And then I was going to roll that into hopefully setting a new PB at the Honolulu Marathon in December. And the New York City Marathon was going to be a perfect training race to lead up to that. So I had a whole really very elaborate plan for my fall running. Obviously, it became clear that the training for the Great North Half
wasn't going to happen anymore. But because I was in such good shape and I'd been training so hard, in my head, I was already like, I don't want to lose this fitness. So I had already started thinking, okay, I'll put off... The half isn't going to happen. Fine. But maybe just maybe the marathon in December could still happen. And I probably won't set a PB, but it'll still be a cool story to come back to run the
marathon. Anyway, Runna, who is amazing and very accommodating and understanding immediately said, " Hey, look, Nev, we want you to focus on your recovery. Please, no pressure from us. We're not assuming that you're going to run this year. Let's just put things on hold and we'll pick back up in 2025 once you're healed." So that was a huge bummer because on one hand I appreciated it, but I
also was so looking forward to those races. And I was training for it so that it was a little bit of a letdown. But I thought, okay, fine. One of the hardest parts of this whole injury was really letting go of expectations and timeline and understanding that taking the appropriate amount of time to heal now might seem long and frustrating, but in the long run will be far more
important. So coming to terms with that and saying like, " Okay, fine, my fall running schedule, let's just clear it and not expect to do anything." And as a result of that, I texted Francesco at Achilles and I said, " Hey, don't count on me to run the marathon with you this year because I know it takes time to find new guides. You should start that process now."
Francesco, by the way, I should say, Magisano is not just an Achilles athlete. He's really a leader at Achilles.
Right, he's the director of the New York Achilles chapter, and he's not just a runner, he's a triathlete. And he's actually, in his age and category, I think he's won medals for his racing. So all that, I think, is relevant because don't expect a blind triathlete to give you any sympathy when it comes to coming back from
any kind of injury and running a race. He responded immediately, he said, " Nev, I know you're still recovering, but I'm going to count on you to do this with me. I don't care how fast we go, you're going to do this."
I love it. I absolutely love it. What a perfect partner to have in a situation like that. Oh yeah, sorry, you hurt yourself, but you're going to do this because I'm blind and I've been doing this so you can do this, too. Yeah, it's actually perfect.
That was two weeks after the accident. And that really was the first moment I thought like, okay, surely if the doctors expects that I'll be out of the brace in six weeks, that gives me another month to just get in shape enough to walk and maybe jog some of this race. What a cool thing that would be to do. And that's when I started thinking like, okay,
I guess I could do this. And once the brace came off and I went for that first jog, it became clear that I think this is doable. And so I started building back up as much as I could. I had a good baseline of fitness that I think really helps, and I was able to get in shape.
Wow. I mean the inspiration that comes from everything that happened to you from August through to getting across that finish line in November is huge. And I'm sure your whole family were totally and utterly mesmerized by watching you go on that journey. And just again, with Francesco as an incredible person in your team here. So you did the TCS New York City Marathon, you ran it, you
ran it with a smile. I saw lots of pictures of you.
It was tough.
You made it look very enjoyable, even if it was on the inside a painful moment. But it's not the only race you've done. So it's not like that's it. You've literally just got back from another race.
What was surprising was that I didn't expect the level of attention and really the pouring of support that I got when it became public that I had experienced this accident and that I was recovering from this injury. I've been on TV for the past 12 years. I love that I have fans and people recognize me and stop me on the street to say hello and take a picture. And I'm very used to that. I get it everywhere,
and it's really, it's lovely. The shift that I felt when all of a sudden people heard about my accident and the attention that I got was so wildly different and so much more emotional. There was just this incredible outpouring of empathy, that people would come up to me on the streets... Sorry, this guy is just so loud. I
don't know if it's so loud for you, but I'm going to run. Has anyone ever actively been running on your podcast?
Actually, this is the first. Actually, running on the podcast. We can use again.
Okay, this should be better. Okay. So what was so wild was that all of a sudden people would see me and they would say, " Oh my God, I heard about your accident. How are you? I hope you're feeling better." And everyone wanted to share stories of either their own accidents or other people's recoveries. And I've never had people say, "
I prayed for you." And just really opened their hearts to me, whether it was on social media or in person. And as a result, there was this whole new story. There was this new narrative that I'd had an accident, but that I was on the road to recovery and
really working hard and very much sharing my journey. And that strangely, but wonderfully, opened some doors to some new opportunities, one of which was with Brooks with whom I ran the New York City Marathon this year, and also with the Pyramids Half Marathon, which is this incredible event that takes place in Cairo. And I got invited to
participate. And because I was already on the road recovery and feeling pretty good, I immediately said, " Yes, of course I would love to do that." My wife, who has her own interesting running journey, who had recently, after 13 years of not running because of a knee injury, started running again, mainly because she saw that, if I can start running again after breaking my neck, surely she can
start running again too. So we started training again together, and I got her invited to also run the half- marathon with me this last weekend. And so we both went to Cairo and just participated in this incredible event, which was a huge accomplishment for her because she hadn't run a half- marathon in 13 years, and we had
never run a race together. It's been a wild year of extremes for me going from maybe never running again to not only running again, but these new incredible opportunities. And now my wife who was inspired to start running as well, and we're now running together and I think
we're going to run the London Marathon in April. It's amazing how, for her growing up as a runner in high school and now me becoming a runner as an adult, the running theme has really woven through our lives and now brought us together and created all these new opportunities. And it's just been an amazing experience.
Wow.
It is amazing. Yeah, sometimes these things happen and doesn't look like a good situation at first. You wouldn't choose it to happen again, but you look back some months or years later and really good things can come out
of accidents and bad situations. I always wonder with people who are runners or athletes who go through these situations, whether you think the running that you had done before, you've been running your whole life, you'd run, I think 23 Road Runners races before this accident. Whether you think that
helped you get through all of this. The fact that you were able to come out of this as well as you did and surprise the doctors, having that level of fitness both physically and mentally would probably be something that would help somebody get through something like this.
Yeah, I think absolutely. In fact, I remember my physical therapist who I've been going to for a long time, or he's a bunch of things. He's not just physical therapist, but he specifically does a lot of sports medicine and works with a lot of runners. And I saw him maybe three or four weeks after the injury for the first time, when I was already up and about and moving and talking about wanting to start running soon.
And he said that, in his experience working with many people over the years, the quicker you get back out there, the quicker you're active and the less time you spend not moving and letting your muscles and your body
atrophy and weaken, the better. And that he was so happy, even if some doctors might not recommend being so mobile or running so soon after, he said from everything he's seen and all the patients he's worked with, the sooner you get back out and on your feet the
better. And yeah, I didn't expect it. But I think knowing that, for me, running is such a crucial form of both fitness and exercise, but really more than anything, I think, mental health really is, simply put, I had to. I had no choice. The six weeks that I was in the neck brace and mostly in a reclined position were
torture. I just wanted to move. I knew I liked running, but I didn't really understand how important it was to me and how vital it was to my mental health until there was a moment where I didn't know if I'd be able to do it again. And I didn't do it for even just those six weeks. I got dark and I needed it, and I started looking forward to it so much.
Tell me, did your training also change though? The way you viewed running, yes. The way you viewed your body, yes, your relationships. But how you've gone into those few months that you had before the TCS New York City Marathon, the Pyramids Half, and now going forward, what's going to be different for you?
For sure. It was frustrating because, like I said, I had been really peak training fitness up until the morning of the accident. And I was starting to, as you know, and I might mute for a second because it sounds like there's an ambulance coming.
That's okay. It's New York. We're used to it
Anyway. That morning I had done a really fast routine, which was... What do you call an exercise where you do, it was like a half a mile and then a quarter of a mile faster, and then an eighth of a mile faster? And it was a progression run, I guess. Progression run. And I had just crushed it, and I was so high on that adrenaline of seeing my progress and feeling the speed. And so I haven't done
a lot of that. So there's only been a few years where I've really trained aggressively to set PBs, one of which was in 2018 for the New York City Marathon where I did my PB. But since then, it's mostly been maintaining a baseline level of fitness and then building up towards races, but not with the expectation of pushing myself to
go too fast. So I was really starting to feel that excitement of like, oh, wow, I'm getting faster, I'm getting stronger. This is so fun. So it was tough because, obviously, after not running for six weeks and recovering from a pretty major accident, my first run back was terrible. Felt terrible. It was so slow and short and disappointing on the heels of the last run I had gone
on. It was emotionally tough because leading up for the next six weeks, which I think is the amount of time I had before the marathon, there was a very slow build up of, first I just have to see if I can run three miles. Okay, I can do
three miles, let me do five. And then, okay, I got to six or seven, and I thought, okay, I can go enough of a distance now to know that my neck isn't going to hurt or cause me any real problems. So now let me see if I can start bringing the pace down a little bit. So I got down into the eights, which for me is pretty slow to be running an 8: 30, 8:45 pace. So I thought, okay,
let me see if I can bring that down. And started testing. Every run I was testing. Can I go a little faster? Is it going to hurt? Am I okay? Can I go a little further? And so I slowly got that back down into the sevens and going enough of a distance that it felt like, okay, this could work.
And I remember at that time I was also texting with Francesco and giving him updates and saying, " Hey, what shape are you in because here's where I'm at and I want to make sure that you don't we're on the same page and that you're not going to try and go too fast or whatever." So eventually I did my longest run leading up to the marathon, which was, I think, 20 miles with some breaks in there. But it
felt okay. And I just remember thinking like, okay, I can do this. I think I'll be okay. I definitely was undertrained though in terms of miles for a race and only really six weeks of active, and hardly even really, because the first few weeks of that was just test runs.
So to answer your question, absolutely having the baseline of the last eight years of running pretty consistently allowed me to, I think, recover way faster, get back to a comfortable pace and distance, and not to say wing it, but jump in to training close to the race and still manage to get through it despite it being a pretty, it was hard work, but I did get to the finish line.
Yes, you did. Yes, you did. As you always do. Nev, I want to change gears and just talk a bit about why people know Nev Schulman and your career, which is such an interesting one. Breaking onto the scene in 2010 with this documentary, Catfish, which has become really part of the lexicon of American in English language. You basically have a word that you created and something around
that. And what was it like for you, for those who don't know much about Catfish, the documentary then the show that came after it, how did that all happen? And did you see this life coming at you when you first had this idea to create that film?
Yeah, so I grew up in New York City and my brother and a lot of my friends are filmmakers, so I was always around very creative film- focused people. And as a result, in college I started a production company making bar mitzvah and wedding videos, and then I got into
filming dance and photography. And so I've always been in that world, but I certainly never had any ambitions to be the subject of a documentary and certainly never to host a television show. It all happened very much by
accident. I, in 2007, was approached via MySpace by a young girl in Michigan who had seen my photography website where I posted a lot of photos of dancers and had been inspired by my photos to use them as a subject of watercolor paintings, as she was an aspiring artist. And it was so charming and adorable. And I very quickly started corresponding with her and her mom via MySpace and then
Facebook. And really created this charming friendship. And she then would send me the paintings and they were really good, and we were putting them up on the wall. And my brother, who again, like I said, is a filmmaker, was just so curious that he started documenting it, here and there saying, " Oh, what is this new package?" Or I was on the phone or I'd read a funny email or whatever
it was. And over the course of the next nine months, my friendship and relationship with the family grew. I became friends with the sister and the cousin and the babysitter and the whole family in this small town in the upper peninsula of Michigan. And I started to flirt with the older sister who was close to my age and lived on a horse farm and rode horses and
played music. I lived this very country, artsy life that I had always fantasized that maybe one day I would live. And we weren't dating because we hadn't met, but we were awaiting the opportunity to finally meet. And I think we both assumed that when we did, we'd immediately fall in love. That was the expectation. Fast- forward. We were filming a dance festival in Vail. They said something to
me that seemed a little strange. I looked it up. It discovered that they had lied about a property they said they had bought, which was still for sale. There was a song they had sent me that I discovered actually they had just stolen off the internet. So we started investigating and very quickly discovered that a lot of the things they had told me might not be true.
We went to Michigan. We surprised them. We filmed the whole thing. And what we discovered was that almost none of what they had told me was true. And many of the people that I had thought were real and had been interacting with were not.
What?
Anyway, we created the documentary Catfish, which came out in 2010. And that tapped a nerve because people from all over the country and then the world started reaching out to me with their wild stories of online deception and relationships that had ended with them discovering that they had been lied to. And then, of course, the term catfished.
And so we started offering to help these people by making the show and taking them on the crazy types of journeys that I had been on. So that's how Catfish happened. Hey, this guy, someone just took a picture of/with me because he's a fan
Nev is on the street right now. So he's got passersby being like, " Hey, it's Nev Schulman." And taking a photo of you while you record this podcast interview.
Exactly. Wow.
Anyways, so yeah, so that's how I started making the show, and we've been making it now for 12 years. And it's been this incredible journey of traveling around the world, but primarily the country, meeting people and holding their hands through a very strange emotional journey of discovering that someone that they, in many cases, are in love with is not at all who they present themselves to be.
So that's how I ended up doing this.
And then here you are now going around the, I want to say country, but have you done it internationally as well?
We have done some episodes. Yeah, we did an episode in Canada, we did an episode in the UK.
I feel like I saw a UK one. And here you are, catching everyone out, just not in a bad way though. I think you're saving everyone heartache and pain and you're putting the bad people back on the shelf.
Even just introducing this concept, Nev, that this is a thing that people do do this people to other people, maybe inserts just maybe that little bit of healthy skepticism perhaps that people should have when they're meeting people online, at least at first.
Yeah. The show came out with the, or at the same time as dating apps really took hold as well as social media in general. And I think for a lot of people there was this naivete, certainly for me, that people will tell you the truth. And that's not
always the case. And with the internet and social media came this ease and access to the ability of creating an alter ego and presenting oneself in a way that may not be exactly, either slightly different or in some cases entirely different from who you really are. And so the conversation has obviously grown around who are we and what can we...
You're the best. I love him. I'm crazy about the show. Love you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Unbelievable.
We sort again accidentally created this term Catfish, which wasn't even really intended to be used to describe someone, but it took on a life of its own. And now is in the dictionary as a second definition for the word, relating to anyone who uses social media to present
a false version of themselves. But yeah, we had hopes that by making the show and showing people that this happens, that it would eventually go away or that people would know how to avoid it. But here we are now, 300 episodes later and it doesn't seem to be
going anywhere. So clearly humans have a desire and, I think, need, some cases for better and some cases for worse, to express themselves in ways that they may not be comfortable doing in real life. And the internet gives them that ability to create new characters and say things they may not feel comfortable saying or act in ways that they're not comfortable acting in their real world. And
sometimes it's great. But obviously when it crosses paths with someone else who doesn't know that you're doing that, it can get very complicated and, in some cases, also entertaining. So that's what we've been doing.
And we've been loving it for all these years and all these episodes and all of these uncoverings. It's growing and still a show that I will 100% watch. I love watching it when I'm traveling, which is strange. I travel a lot. Okay, so one more thing we want to ask you, just as a moment of inspiration, as Rob says, somebody who's run multiple Road Runners events in the past, and we hope to see you at many, many more
moving forward, I'm sure there's no doubt about that. But what words of inspiration could you leave our listeners, to anyone who is potentially overcoming something life- changing, what could you say to inspire them to keep going?
Something that I've thought about before. One of the things that I love about running is that you can do it anywhere. And I spend a lot of time in Anywhere, USA. A lot of the places that I go to you've never heard of. They're a few hours away from the nearest city or airport, and there's very little to do there. You're not going to find a run
club. You might not find a track. You might not even find a path or bike lane to run it. So I've had to really rely on my love for running because I'll go out and I'll just hit the road. And 99% of the time, I'll go on a one or two hour run. I will not see another runner. I might not even see another pedestrian in many of these places, But once in a while I will.
And I remember recently, I don't remember where I was, it was a few years ago now, but I was on a run and I turned onto a road and probably a quarter a mile ahead of me there was another runner going the same way as me. And for it was probably a mile or two, I was trailing them until they eventually turned and went into their neighborhood
to go back home. And I continued straight. And I just remember thinking that person will never know that I was running behind them. They didn't see me. They never looked back because they probably assumed there wasn't anyone behind them. But for that 10 or 15 minutes I was using them. I was drafting, if you will, emotionally off of them, excited to know that there was someone else out here.
It was cold, it was early, but there was someone else out here who was doing it too, who loves it as much as I do. And again, the idea that they didn't know I was using and inspired by them made me think that, okay, maybe I'm that person for someone else. Maybe physically in real life or even just theoretically someone's behind me and using me as that, oh yeah, there is someone else out here who loves this,
who's working hard. I'm not alone. And so I often think about that. That idea that what I love about running specifically is that it's a huge community, but we're all, you have to do it on your own. It's really like an individual thing. And so I love that even as an individual sport, whether we come together physically in races or whether we accidentally run into each other on runs,
we're connected to each other. And we rely on each other to set the pace, go a little further, work a little harder, and just get out there and do it.
I love that.
I love it. I love it. Beautifully said, incredibly true. I can relate very much to what you say when it comes to just seeing that other runner out there or being seen in some cases. Nev, amazing talking to you. You are really a great storyteller as you obviously do for a living. And you tell your own story as well
as any. So thank you. So glad that you have recovered, that you're back out there running, and we look forward to seeing you at many NYR races over the next year and beyond. And continuing to watch you flourish as you tell these stories.
And thank you guys for what you do at New York Road Runners. It's such an important part of my life and New York City. I'm thrilled to be a part of the New York Road Runner family, so I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Dietmar Stork loves cats. He loves music and he loves running. Dietmar has an impressive running resume with eight ultra- marathons, 10
marathons, and 53 half- marathons under his belt. Beyond his personal running achievements, which include 159 races with New York Road Runners, he is deeply involved with our organization serving as a volunteer leader at critical race events, including unloading buses at the marathon starting line, which is by the way, a
very important job. So if you got off on a bus this year on Staten Island, Dietmar and his team were there to guide you to your village.
Thanks, Rob. Dietmar, welcome to the Set the Pace podcast. How are you doing today?
Good, how are you doing now? Good to see you.
Likewise. Good to see you. You have a very impressive record. How'd you do it and what's your favorite distance?
I would say the half- marathon is the favorite distance because I don't know, I just like it. I run it a lot. And at some point I realized I guess that must be my favorite distance because it's a little less hard than running say a 10K and it's not a marathon. So I really enjoy those. How did
I get to it? I started running, I want to say 20 years ago roughly, and I've started running because my doctor actually said to me, " You're living very unhealthy and you need to do something otherwise we put you on medication." So I said, " Well, I'm 30- something years old, I better do something." And I started, by accident, I discovered running, and I realized that I really love that. And I was
still living in Berlin. I run the Berlin half- marathon a few times, and then I said, " Well, it's a half- marathon, I should do a full marathon." And then I did to a Berlin Marathon. And then I moved to the States. And with New York Road Runner I really took off. I didn't realize I went over 150 races already, but I'm running a lot of history with them.
Excellent. I'm pretty sure you have a lot of stress from your run, but you were also volunteer leader at the bus uploading at the marathon start. What does your day look like that day, and do you have any interesting stories?
That was very interesting. So first of all, I've been volunteer lead for two years now, and I'm volunteer leading quite a lot. I've done it 12 times this year. But that was the first time at the marathon actually. I've been volunteering at, I want to say, seven marathons before, but that was my first time as a lead, which was very different. Plus it was the first time at
the start. I used to volunteer at the finish line. So the day was relatively simple. As an idea, we had the buses coming, all the buses which came to and from the ferry or the buses which came from New Jersey, they all came to our area on School Street. I had my volunteers going onto the bus, greeting all the runners, making sure that they know what's going on, get the runners out of the buses, and then gets them
into the start minutes. So far, so easy. But obviously, we had a few issues there. I came in, for example, I had a runner who was staying in a hotel, and the hotel employees, the cleaning crew, thought that his bag was as big and everything else in there was trash, so they threw out the bag. So he came to the start without anything and was obviously very, very nervous about it. So we had to assure that
we will help them. We got him a new bib and he could run the race. I assumed he could run the race. I didn't follow it afterward. This happened a few times. The oddest thing I would say is we found a ukulele on the bus, so somebody must have entertained the bus by playing ukulele. I don't know where it ended up unfortunately, but if you were a ukulele player that day, kudos
to you. But I also was very, very sad to see a nice instrument being left behind.
Wow. You got some interesting stories. But you also know you have done 159 races for the New Yorker Runners, and then you've given back a lot as a volunteer. Since you have been in both sides of the stories, what advice do you have for runners at the start?
At the start, as a runner, I'm always getting nervous no matter which distance it is. I must say that, and that's something we of course experienced on Marathon morning that runners were nervous and so on. I think there, it's just do how you feel like you're running that day. For me, it's always, I never know how I go into a race. For me, it's always I'm starting and then I know how I feel at that day. I'm trying
to pursue with that pace. Because I've been running a lot, I've tried not to run every single race too hard. I think I sometimes run a little harder than I should be, but I'm trying to always set a specific goal and try to somehow stick with it. I've been running a little bit less the last few years, and I noticed that improved actually my running. Instead of doing 15, 20
races a year, I do my nine plus one. With New York Road Runners, I'm running nine, 10 times every single year and a few races outside. And that helped actually help improving my running by saying it's race a little bit less, train a little bit more. And the time I am not spending on running now myself, I'm spending and volunteering and making sure that this part of the race is going smoothly. And that is a lot of fun. I love that.
I'm pretty sure it's a lot of fun. And I'm pretty sure you're a very busy person. You have run a lot of races, but you also have volunteered a lot. How do you decide whether you going to race or whether you're going to volunteer, and how do you make that a big decision?
Yeah, there are certain races I love running. I love running, for example, the Fred Lebow Half Marathon. I enjoy doing. It's every January. It's really hard, and I really dislike the last hill before the finish line, but I really want to do that. So that's something where I'm saying I'm running this one. But there's also other races. The New York
City Half Marathon, it's my favorite half- marathon. Of all the halves I've done, this is the one where I'm saying, if somebody is a runner, you should want this one. It's awesome. But then I'm thinking, well, it's like sharing with somebody. I say, " Okay, I've done it six, seven times. I don't even remember how often somebody else
should experience this too." So they should have that. And I try to then enable that by being a volunteer leader, by making sure our volunteers have a great day, that they are enjoying the race, and that then the runners have a great day. So sometimes I'm not necessarily running my most favorite race, and instead I'm volunteering there. But specific races throughout the year, I like
doing Fred Lebow is coming up, for example. I love every single year.
Excellent. And you have qualified for via 9+ 1 program for the 2025 TCS New York City Marathon. So the question is are you going to run or are you going to volunteer? What's your mind thinking right now?
Currently, my mind is saying I'm volunteering. I actually signed up to be at the start again. And I entered the lottery for Berlin. So currently my mind is set to saying I'm running Berlin and I'm volunteering again because of volunteer experience. It was so nice. I always find it, there's a certain pressure when you're running New York because all my colleagues and friends, everybody who's living all in New
York, everybody's saying are you running New York. And afterwards everybody's saying, " How did do?" I always feel a certain pressure saying, no, I really, really have to be extremely well doing well at that race. So it's a much bigger pressure than if I'm running, say an ultra marathon for example, where everybody just said, " Oh wow, you did an ultra marathon. That's awesome." But nobody says, " How did you do?"
And knows how fast it is. So I think right now my mind is saying I'm volunteering again and I'm doing 2026. I'm running another time, and then I hope I get into Berlin and run Berlin another time this year, which I haven't done since 2009.
I hope you get to Berlin, but we also want to say thank you for all the hard work that you have done as a volunteer, but also doing an amazing races at the New York Road Runners. Dietmar, thanks for being with us today and keep up the great work.
Thank you.
All right, thank you Med. Thank you Dietmar, and thanks Dietmar for being a member of New York Road Runners. Now it's time for today's Med Minutes.
Winter running safety. Winter running can be tough, but safety should always come first. With short days and icy conditions, make sure you wear bright reflective gear so you are visible to drivers, especially in low- lit conditions. Choose well- lit routes and be cautious of slippery spots. Consider wearing shoes with good tracks and adding spikes if you're running
on ice. Stay aware of your surroundings. And if your weather's harsh, it is okay to adjust your route or take a day off. I like to say sometimes this is a good day for a treadmill run as an option. Make sure you make a wise decision for today and for the long season because you don't want to slip and fall. For example, for me, in 2010 when I was in Mammoth Lakes, California, after I won the TCS New York
City Marathon, I was getting ready for Boston. There was a black ice on top of the snow, so you have to be aware of your surroundings. I slipped and fell and I prepatellar bursitis, which means I just fell on my knees and it took a long time to recover. So be aware of your surroundings. Be making a wise decision. Sometimes just jumping on the treadmill is okay or taking a day off if the weather is really bad.
All right, that does it for a holiday edition of Set The Pace. I want to thank our guest today, Nev Schulman and Dietmar Stork. If you like this episode, please go ahead, subscribe, rate, leave a comment for the show, wherever you listen. Merry Christmas to everybody celebrating. Happy Hanukkah, that starts right around Christmas as well. Have a great, great holiday week. Enjoy the miles. We'll see you next week.