SDP-001. The First Draft of Anything Is Shit - podcast episode cover

SDP-001. The First Draft of Anything Is Shit

Nov 14, 20239 minSeason 1Ep. 1
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Episode description

Daniele Catalanotto and Guy Martin discuss principle number one from the Service Design Principles 1-100 book, written by Daniele.

  • 00:00 Open
  • 00:05 Welcome
  • 00:44 Why is a shitty first draft so important in service design?
  • 03:06 Principles aren’t rules
  • 04:56 Do your first shitty draft…
  • 05:19 …and share it!
  • 07:40 Choose who you share it with.
  • 08:18 Outro

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Daniele Catalanotto is a service design practitioner, the author of the Service Design Principles series of books, and the founder of the Swiss Innovation Academy

Guy Martin has worked with global companies and startups in a wide range of roles, including service delivery, corporate education, and leadership development.

Music by Mikhail Smusev from Pixabay

Thanks to Castopod, a Podcasting 2.0 and ActivityPub enabled host, for their support.

A production of Neolux Consulting

Transcript

Guy

one, the first draft of anything is shit. Welcom to Service Design Principles. I'm Guy Martin, joined by the author of the Service Design Principle series of books, the founder of the Swiss Innovation Academy and Service design Practitioner. The effusive aniele CatalanottoD

Daniele

Hi Guy, it's such a pleasure to be here with you.

Guy

Me too. each episode we're going to look at one of the principles from from your book Service Design Principles 1 to 100. And today it's principle number one. The first draft of anything is shit. Now, some listeners may recognize this as a quote from Ernest Hemingway, the recipient of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1954. But it's since become a bit of a foundation of service design. Why is that, Daniele.

Daniele

So I think in Service Design often what we try to do is we try to put out stuff so that we then see how people react to it. And what we know is that basically whatever we show to people, people will always tell us the same thing. Oh, interesting. But and then do you have

a lot of information about all this stuff that you did wrong? And so it's kind of this realization that whatever you do and whatever you put out, even if you worked on a lot of it, it's still a first draft for people who see it, and therefore it's still something that is pretty shitty. And therefore understanding that helps us to go in a way that we say, Let's move the first draft much further, much nearer to to us and not wait too long because we know it's

going to be shit for people anyways. And so it's just being the first thing that we want outside and then have people react to it and which we know they will say it's shit. And from that we can then improve based on their feedback.

Guy

So it's kind of like giving the liberty to just get started. Like,

Daniele

Exactly.

Guy

don't don't have any excuse to delay.

Daniele

Yeah. You know, it's kind of this thing where you say, Anyways, it will be shit. So it just just go, you know, because it's okay, you know, And it's it has kind of this is a very liberating thing when you when you tell somebody, ah, you know, we will not show it. You know, it's like when you say when you record something and you say we we're going to record it, but we not going to publishing it.

Guy

Right.

Daniele

And then what happens is people are very free, you know, and they express all the things. And then maybe at the end you say, now we have the recording, would you like us to do something with it? And it was quite good that yeah, it was quite good, you know. So sometimes it just takes out depression.

Guy

Righ. And actually, it's it's. It's kind of the intent is relative, right? It's not that, the first draft is shit in isolation of everything else, because it could actually be quite good, that first draft. But in relation to what you're going to end up with, your final result, t final draft, after you've done all of the revisions and editing in comparison, maybe it looks a bit shit.

Daniele

Yeah,

Guy

So I think that's a trap I've fallen into where I think, okay, well my first draft is pretty good. Well, I don't need to revise it. Right. But that's not the purpose.

Daniele

I would say, you know, as any rules, you know, these services and principles, sometimes people say they are rules which, which is a thing that I don't like so much because for me they are kind of like starting points and little provocations. You know, they are formulated as like little advices, but as with every advice, you know, when your mum told you to not do something, you know, sometimes you just did the opposite and you learn something

from it. But having heard your mom saying you to not do something sometimes was very good for you to, to then learn by yourself. And so here I wouldn't say that in every case, you know, the first draft is shit, but by believing it, it definitely helps us to put stuff out. And it happened to me that, you know, the first draft was in fact a very good solution. But knowing that, believing that the first draft is shit pushed me to make a second draft, pushed me to make another proposition.

Guy

Right.

Daniele

And then when people just come back and say, you know, the first one was the right one, you have then the confidence that indeed it was the right one because you had you have tested a

few things. You have tried to improve A maybe you come back to the first idea, which is okay, but you then have the confidence of knowing it's a good one because I've tested enough and the danger of not having that sentence or that idea in your mind is you're going to do something and you're going to believe it's perfect.

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

And so you're going to assume it's going to be perfect. And so you invest money, for example, in marketing and stuff. And then but your idea isn't that perfect.

Guy

Right.

Daniele

And sometimes yes, sometimes no. So believing it's always shit is maybe easier to to manage that than believing it's always great and

Guy

Mm

Daniele

being

Guy

hmm.

Daniele

disappointed 99% of the time.

Guy

Right. Makes perfect sense. So I guess for people listening, maybe there's an action they can take here If they're delaying starting something, If they're sort of putting things off or if they think, oh, I'm not quite good enough at this yet or something like this. Maybe just go draft something, make that first shitty draft. Start editing it. Doing a second draft can only happen once you've done that first one. So get that

Daniele

Exactly.

Guy

out of the way

Daniele

And share it.

Guy

and share it?.

Daniele

Yeah. You know, and there is the this is the one thing that I've learned is like people often think they should only share the final version.

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

But there is so much more today to to get from sharing that first shitty draft

Guy

Okay.

Daniele

because this is something that I've learned, which is, you know, the principles that you've read in the book.

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

They came out as blog articles first, you know, without proofreading, without me even rereading the article back in

Guy

Right.

Daniele

the days, I would just write it in one go and hit publish. But then what happens? Because it was just for me to say, I have this idea, I'm going to put it out in the world. And I'm and so I have a kind of like a way to find them back,

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

which was good. But then what happened is these first draft, you know, people started to react to them. Peo started to say, Oh, this is quite interesting. Oh, I would add this. I would add that. And then it started to for me to realization, Oh, this could be something more than what I thought.

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

And so putting out the first draft usually also gives you also a bit of a of a kick because other people recognize what could be the value of it. If there was a second draft. If what if if there was a third draft. But you know sometimes I don't know. You know, I was limited in my in my imagination by saying this would be a blog article, but then people coming back to it and saying, Oh, this is quite good, this is quite good, this is quite good, this is quite

good at this. Okay, now I have enough to make a book called It could be a book, you know, and that's kind of why I'm saying not

Guy

Yeah.

Daniele

not only do

Guy

Mm

Daniele

a first

Guy

hmm.

Daniele

draft, but also share it because people would react to it and show the hidden value that you don't realize because we are all evaluating ourselves.

Guy

Okay. I wouldn't have shared my first draft, But maybe that's something I need to to start doing. Is I would usually write the first draft and go, okay, that's out of the way. I can throw that in the bin. And now I'll go on with my revisions and then I'll share the revision. what you're saying makes make sense. You get feedback very early and you can you can change direction early in the piece if you need to. and also get the validation, I guess, to say, yes, it is a

good idea. It is. You're in the right direction, so maybe you don't need to throw

Daniele

Yeah.

Guy

it out. So that's very insightful.

Daniele

And sometimes sharing doesn't mean it's shared with the world. Sometimes sharing means just sharing it with a co-worker, with a friend,

Guy

Right?

Daniele

you know, That's obviously the level of sharing is also dependent on on on how how dangerous it can be to share. You know, sometimes

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

it's it's might not be as smart as to share everything. You know, if you're building a service, you don't want to impact the lives of people who write that way with something that that isn't perfect,

Guy

Mm hmm.

Daniele

obviously, but share it already with a small group of people who you trust and who trust you. They can give you some very good feedback that you don't imagine.

Guy

thanks Thanks Daniele and thanks to everyone listening. And we'll see you in the next episode, which is principal number two.

Daniele

thanks, Guy. Was a pleasure.

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