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Hey, everyone. Welcome to Served. I am Andy. JW here as always. Producer Mike in the house. Guys, I have a question. Producer Mike, what do you think the hardest thing... in sports is as someone who's kind of worked in the space but can't hit a drive 240? That's not true. I've been working on it unless the in town.
Trackman's lying to me. It's lying to you. It's lying to you. Damn it. Repeat championships. And honestly, the slams, any type of slam seems to be, grand slam seems to be the hardest. John? So the specifics, right? Beat Rafan Clay and outrun Nuthain Bolt and take a round off of Khabib.
I think it's got whatever the answer is. And I want to hear what you say. Uh, cause I feel like this was a leading question. It's got to be in an individual sport. That is my one condition. Um, take it away. The one professional athlete. Not even, we don't even have one anymore. Here's what I think. I think after I spent...
seven hours watching the Masters coverage. I'm not sure they could have scripted more drama. I think there was more drama than there was in the White Lotus finale. You do that. I think watching Rory McIlroy, who is already one of the best golfers of all time. Even before, if he didn't win the Masters yesterday, and he's a sometimes served listener. So if you are listening, Rory, man, congratulations. That was so, so fantastic. I was glued to my seat the entire time.
pulling for you, pulling for emotion. And guys, I think expectation is the hardest thing in sport. And at what point do other people's expectations of you... take the place of your realistic expectations for yourself. And what I mean by that is, so when Roy McIlroy is this kid phenom at 10, 11, 12 years old, which, you know, some of...
like Venus and Serena were phenoms when they were kids, right? They were just, you felt like they were going to win a bunch of stuff. Now, is that a grand slam? Is it four? Is it 20 something? You don't know. You know, Venus won five Wimbledons and is the second best player in her family. You know, that type of thing. You don't know what the levels are. But if you would have told Rory, even at 12, even as a phenom.
Hey, listen, I'll give you four slams right now. All of the other things. Number one in the world. The natural response is everyone, him, his parents, anyone around him, I'll take that and we'll be happy forever. Close the book. Best forever. That doesn't happen. You constantly reset. Imagine someone who's been one of the best golfers of all time since he was 24.
all of a sudden appeared mortal to us. And not because, he's not mortal, because he can drive the ball, he can carry the ball 370. Like, not mortal, but just mortal in the fact that we've watched him be human, have to fight his own... Mental nerves. One of the best ever. fight his own mental nerves to the point where people are getting emotional because he finally comes through and fights it also in real time. He just fought it a little better.
yesterday and was able to offset some of the mistakes with resetting, which has been learned over time, expectation has to be the hardest thing ever. At what point does he go from, listen, you give me that thing at 10 years old, I just want to win one. I just want to even be in one. I want to play in one. To, at four, it's disappointing if you don't win the Masters. That's a crazy thing to me. It affects his body. He misses a chip 40 yards right on 13. That's a body thing. People remember that.
How about the superhero effort to not let it get away at that point? Like it's, it's amazing. And it's weird. I want to connect this because in tennis, this was the week of, of Carlos Alcaraz and Monte Carlo, but it's kind of guys, 21 years old. It already has four slams.
Like, he's won away. He's going to, for the next however many years, until he wins Australia, he's going to be won away from the career slam. He's already there. And as I'm watching Rory, it hasn't gotten to the point with Carlos where he hasn't built up this.
you know, decade and a half long to where, you know, Rory was standing on the 10th tee in 2011 with a five-stroke lead and he hasn't built up that subset, but we're already kind of getting there with Carlos where before Monte Carlo, we're going, well, what's wrong with Carlos? And then he wins Monte Carlo and he's now number one in the race for the season. But I think expectation is the hardest thing, John.
Can I give you a corollary that gets us right back to the same place? Expectation is a big picture issue. What about... And this is not unrelated, and I think it applies both to Rory yesterday and to Carlos in the past, not least the Wimbledon final. Hardest thing to do in sports isn't one of them have to be
after you've had a derailment. So you have a lead, and then suddenly you get a little yippy, and the lead disappears. Or you take the first two sets against Novak, and then Novak starts to claw his way back into the match. I think sometimes we say, oh, he... He won in five sets. And to me, there's a huge difference between...
winning the first two sets, losing the next two, and then winning the fifth. You know, Roger Rapa, 2008 Wimbledon final. That's a lot different than sort of alternating he wins a set, I win a set, he wins a set, I win a set. What Carlos Alcaraz has had to do in a few of those majors where he really had to come back, even the Roland Garros last year when he was one set away from losing to Zverev, that would have been a really stinging loss. What Rory did yesterday.
Big picture expectations and 10 years and sort of, he knows, I mean, these athletes. They may not read every single tweet and they may have ways to sort of isolate themselves, but they generally know the narratives of their career. They know if they're meeting expectations or not. But I think tied to that. losing a lead and then figuring out a way to just say, I'm not going to leave this putting green, you know, this green or this tennis court is anything other than the champion.
Even if I've got to, you know, crawl on glass to get back after I've squandered this lead, I'd put that up there too as the hardest things in sports. Yeah. And also I hear stuff like that a lot and it's like, I am not leaving here. No, you say like, I am going to try my ass off. I'm going to try to be in the right positions. I am going to try to, it's constantly resetting.
You're basically doing the next 90 seconds of your life over and over and over, and you come up one stroke short, or it changes your entire narrative of your entire career. Based on 30 seconds, based on missing a six footer versus in the playoffs, sticking it to two feet and making it, you know, Rose drains a 17 footer and it's just. It's these little miniature moments that affect such a big thing. But listen, without the expectation and without everyone being invested...
I don't think we see that reaction where he is laying on the green yesterday and his body is convulsing and heaving out of relief. That comes with... expectations from when you're 10, and they're probably fun. to you know 24 and all of a sudden people are going is he gonna you know is he in pace with tiger and then that gets away from you and then it's just this one tournament to complete the career slam to go you know enter immortality
And it's something you've done a million times. Play four rounds of good golf. Can you get there? Sports is just the best reality show that there has ever been. You do not get these people who are absolute superheroes mixed with... a sense of mortality that every single person who's ever been nervous about anything can relate to. And that's when you get the magic of the response that we saw with Rory yesterday.
And my mind kept going to Carlos. It's like, at what point are we just morons? Because... we're discussing him on, on TC live all week. And it's like, well, you know, Carlos just has to get to the point where he can steady the ship and like these players. And I'm going, well, those players were, they're like all like 27. He's 21. He's just good enough to have had success. He's so... obnoxiously talented and gifted and a hard worker.
He's won four without having to figure everything out. That's how good he is. Might be the same for Rory. It's like they're so aesthetically pleasing with the way that they play that we forget. that they have to work at it and that it isn't just always easy in that. I mean, you saw what it meant to Rory at the end. It was like, I was emotional. It was amazing. And you wanted to see that moment. And it reminded me also back a little bit.
Two, what interview am I going to mention right now? Madison Keys. Madison Keys from Australia. We're talking about overcoming a decade of almost. and how it affected her and the people around her. I think expectation is the hardest thing. You know what you, uh, I'm, I'm here in France right now. And, uh, you know, a lot, a lot of talk a few, you know, when Ben Yon is going to revolutionize basketball is going to be the number one pick. You've never seen a player with his skills at his height.
And you know what? He goes to San Antonio and they're kind of in rebuild mode and we all like pop, but he's getting on in years. That is a much different pressure than an individual sport. And I feel like we don't make this distinction often enough when it is just you. You know, it's up you stepping up to the box. It's just you on the tennis court.
That is referendum on you. You can't say, oh, the offense wasn't suited to my skills and the coach and the play calling stunk and my receiver dropped my passes or I would have had better stats. whether it's Madison Keys, whether it's Rory McIlroy, whether it's, you know, the UFC, whether it's Volkanovski fighting, trying to sort of revive his career in the UFC Saturday night. I just think individual, we talk about sports being great theater and reality TV and this sort of microcosm for life.
I love team sports, but it's just different when it's one person and it's just a referendum on them and there's no one else getting the blame and there's no one else getting the glory. And I think what we saw yesterday was...
It was really raw. We got two Masters champions. And I think that's an interesting point. A lot of overlap. I keep thinking, I heard the same chatter you did, right? It's David Goffin. What's going on with Carlos? And is he having this slump? And you're thinking, dude, May 5th. He turns 22 years old. Everybody needs to relax.
Yeah, but it's not crazy to think that someone who has won, but also just to play devil's advocate and to counter myself, someone's won four slams. We've seen him beat Novak Djokovic in dominating fashion in a grand slam final. He's 10-1 in Grand Slams and Masters 1000 Finals, only losing to Novak in Cincinnati in 2023. It's absurd to me because... We kind of judge these people against their own shadows, which is totally fair. Like if we've seen the best version of you.
then that's what the comparison is. But then we forget about Carlos and the 10 and one in, in, uh, in slam and master series final. We forget about Nomi Osaka when she's made it past the round of 16 of slam. She's one. We forget about, we forget about Ines Viantic is five and O in grand slam finals. We talk about how, you know, maybe she gets a little nervous and I'm like,
Well, shit, like she gets nervous enough to never lose a Grand Slam final when she gets there. People operate differently, right? The Jack Nicklaus thing where he has won 18 majors and got second 19 times. It's not always perfect. It's not as easy as like, this guy's going to win. And we all have a beer and we go through fantasy drafts and we pretend like we know everything.
It's a jumble of nerves to the point where the best in the world who have created have mastered the craft of controlling their own bodies. all of a sudden hit a chip 30 yards right to the only place where you can't hit it, to reset. Yeah. And start from scratch. I mean, if you think about it, Rory was, it was 11 years since he won even just any type of slam, right? Valhalla in 2014. 2014 PGA championship. Andy did the open championship same year, right? Two weeks before. It's been 11 years.
And we still consider him one of the greatest of all times, right? And he has a measly five championships now. At a pretty young age. At a really young age, right? odds are like that might happen to Carlos, right? He's got three, like we might have to wait that long to get, I'm sorry, he's got four, but he's got three of what he needs to complete a slam. Like Grand Slam, how long? We might wait 11 years for that.
It's a possibility because we're spoiled. But also, like, Carlos is the first one to the microphone to criticize himself. Right. Like he loses in the semis of Indian Wells to Draper. And he goes in and said, I just was nervous. I was unprepared. I, there was a little bit of panic that set in. There was all of these things. And we go, how could that be? It's not just because you've done it once, just because you've done it twice. We kind of like to say, oh, they can handle it now.
It's a living thing. It isn't just like a set guarantee because you've, you've done something, you know? And then what we also, the flip side is like, Oh, Rory finally won. No, no, no, no, no, no. Nope. Not a foregone conclusion. You got to give, like, he had to literally, I can't even imagine what he felt yesterday when he finally closed his eyes. He wasn't playing golf. I never once in my entire career cramped in practice. Not a single time.
And sure as shit, you throw those nerves in there and three hours in and your body is going, oh, I'm cramping. It literally takes over your entire body. We're on a text chain with producer Mike and a couple of our dumb buddies. How could he do that? I'm like, you've done it at your club championship when you're seven back from the lead after nine holes.
What are you talking about? You've done a parallel parking. I mean, it's the same neurochemistry that most people go through when they're like forgot. Oh, my wife wanted soy milk and I got regular 2%. I mean. We choke in our daily life. Just no one knows about it. And the stakes are. I showed up to Dingles this morning. Yeah, Dingles. Wouldn't you love to just have some sort of, some transcript or just, I mean, the conversations he must have been having with himself.
For those last three hours, right? From I'm in pole position to holy shit, this thing's slipping away to I'm going to take this thing in a playoff to the absolute just exaltation when he won. Wouldn't you love to just have this sort of unadulterated transcript of what?
someone like that goes through in a moment like that yeah i know i know it um it's it's yeah i mean and i was so happy for him because i i didn't i didn't ultimately get there at Wimbledon but like I feel like I had the same some of the same painful processes right over time and I'm not as decorated as he is and it wasn't such a glaring hole it's just something that I wanted But I was so happy to see him fight through all of that stuff and to finally get there.
And who knows how it goes now? Like maybe that's the driver that keeps him like he never. And by the way, credit to him because he never went away. It wasn't as if it's been 11 years and he just couldn't take it. He literally has been there every day in the top two, three, four, maybe went crazy and dropped to six for like a cup of coffee, but he's never gone away. And so I'm so curious to see, is it like a breath or does he need that like angst to win the players last month?
Are you winning the players because you want to execute at Augusta? Like, I'm so curious as like the human mind and the psyche, or is it like, okay, I did it. Now let's let it rip. I don't have this. thousand pound gorilla on my back. And so, but like, we don't know the answers, right? I think it's just, it's just so fascinating how people digest expectation. And then when it's done, we saw it with Novak in 2017, when he won the French to complete the career slam.
He didn't kind of, he had an elbow injury, but he, he, he lost to Sam Querrey. And it was like, he's admitted to like, I needed. I was so mentally exhausted. I don't think I realized how much it was going to deplete me once it was done. For as long as I can remember, bread has given me hiccups. I always get the hiccups when I eat baby carrots. Sometimes when I am washing my left ear, just my left ear, I hiccup. And my tried and true hiccup here is for a glass of water.
Light a match. Put the match out in the water. Drink the water. Throw away the match. Put your elbows out. Point two fingers together and sort of stare at the point between the fingers. It doesn't work if you bring your elbows down. It works. Just eat a spoonful of peanut butter. Think of a green rabbit. I taught myself to burp on commands. Excuse me. And I discovered that when I make myself burp, it stops my hiccups.
Unexplainable is taking on hiccups. What causes them? And is there any kind of scientific cure? Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday. The regular season is in the rear view, and now it's time for the games that matter the most. This is Kenny Beecham, and playoff basketball is finally here. On Small Ball, we're diving deep into every series, every crunch time finish.
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So let's equate that back to Carlos, right? Because in this stretch, we've had Yannick out on suspension, right? And Carlos kind of alluded to the fact that he had this pressure of like, this is an opportunity to get to number one, which by winning. He is now number one in the world. Race. Race. Sorry. In the race. But ultimately, you know, when he kind of resigned himself to being like, I just need to enjoy playing tennis, which is what he kind of said before the final.
You know, what are we seeing from Carlos and what is that going to do moving into this clay season? You think this confidence that this wind builds? I say all of this knowing that Carlos is already in like three years better than I ever have been. So my criticisms.
should be taking with a grain of salt, but it's just what I'm seeing with how good he is, right? So I'm doing the thing where I'm judging him against his own shadow, which is still, it's just what you have to do. We just have to be rational about it, I think. To me this year and at the end of last year, kind of post Wimbledon.
it's when someone's been able to stay with him, right? And he's a great, great front runner. Like when he gets confident and he feels like he's hitting every shot, it reminds me of Rod. I knew going into that matchup, I had to stay with him, right? Like I knew if I got broken in the first couple of games that all of a sudden he opens up and the court looks, you know, 20% bigger to him.
If you can just hang, right? Like hang there. He had points where he was looking at his box and it looked like it was not decisive. It was like he was looking for and searching for answers. Carlos, he flipped that shit on its head in Monte Carlo. Lost the first set three times. By the way, Artur Feast.
I think he was the second best player at Money, Carlo, last week. Wow. He lost to Carlos in the quarters, but he looked unbelievable. He is going to make some noise this clay court season, and Paris is going to lose their minds for him. But Carlos... He looked, I said early in the week, after he got a rough first-round draw against Sarundalo, who can play and can create a little speed on the forehand enough to like...
Make it uncomfortable. Lose the first set 6-3. Imagine coming off the loss. You saw the scoreline. Yeah. Imagine coming off the loss to GoFund, hearing the little chirps, losing the first set. And I guess my overall point here is if we're going to have the criticisms, let's also...
still give them credit when they do something good and not just have that be a baseline, right? Goes 1-0. He flipped a couple of other matches, flipped it against Musetti before Musetti got hurt at the end. Lost the first set to Arthur Feast. was five all in the second, you know, that could be three minutes away from exiting. And it didn't, contrary to like maybe the US hard court swing and the match against Novak in Australia.
didn't seem like he was searching for answers. His commands had a little bit more force to them, right? He was able to pull back. First set against Massetti, he was missing everything. He was missing everything. He pulled back. He made Musetti beat him. I think we saw a little bit of a level up. From Carlos, when presented with friction last week.
And I think that's going to serve him amazingly well. If he figures that out, it's like that Novak thing, right, where I can hang, hang, hang, shrink the court, not make errors. Let's see if you can beat yourself and hang on.
You know, as nervous as Carlos feels, I promise you his opponents feel more nervous because he can bring so much more to the table. And once he gives himself enough of that credit, it's going to be dangerous. And I saw him gaining on that in Monte Carlo this week in a big way. Can I ask you, just let me filibuster on a few things real quick. Can we all agree? It's kind of nice to have a master's event that only spans one week. I did not hear a lot of people saying.
Boy, this Monte Carlo event's fun, but you know what would make it really better? Maybe five or six extra days. That would really bake in some downtime. I think that's what we really need. Number two, I just want to go back to what you were saying before. I mean, look, if you said Carlos Sácaraz is not performing at his customary level, he's not meeting the bar he set.
That's just math. I think what I'm talking about, though, is, you know, he needs a coaching change. He's smiling too much. Is this a slump? I mean, I think no, but I think you're right to go back to what you said before, because I think it's an important point. Look, we're not saying people are immune to sort of. They're immune to sort of statistics that are unfavorable. I mean, saying that Carlos Alcarez...
Masters 1000's level is not bringing a big four level of intensity. That's just math. I mean, that's just fact-based. To me, what I take issue with are these sort of sweeping criticisms about a 21-year-old with four majors. I just want to go back to him on... Clay, because someone asked me this, and I didn't have a great answer, and I know that you will.
You watch Nadal, and it's pretty obvious, even to a casual fan. You look at his spins. You look at what he's doing with his serves. You look at the lefty game. It's pretty obvious why Klay goes so well with his tennis. What does Klay do to Carlos, and why is he? What sort of, explain the marriage of him and the surface. One, it opens up the drop shot way more, right? Because there's a lot more times where you're sliding and you can, what he does phenomenally well.
And it just works better when people don't have sure footing. So outside of hardcore. He is so good at playing against people's movement. Right. So John, imagine you're playing Carlos Alcaraz and he, you leave a backhand, you don't hit it perfectly firm cross court. So therefore you're getting that little circle C and you're seeing him kind of wind up for that forehand.
So the couple of things that you have to defend that point is your weak side, which I'm assuming is your backhand, JW. Maybe you're like the rest of us, where you need to cheat to that side a little bit, all the while knowing that this wunderkind can... Go just as big to your forehand. And then, oh, by the way, you have to guard against the little teardrop.
drop shot that barely clears the net and you have to go forward. So in one second, once you realize you don't hit that ball perfectly cross to find his backhand, which also was a good shot, you're having to... retreat both ways, potentially, because of speed of shot that's available to him.
and all of a sudden bring the drop shot off of a slippery start. Carlos is so good. Once he gets you kind of pulled, he can pull that drop shot out, and you're playing against your movement and trying to get forward. I think... That is the biggest thing when you see him on grass and clay right now versus...
where I think he's still one of the best in the world on any surface that you put him on. You could put him on a pool table, you could put him out on an ice skating rink, and he'd still be one of the best in the world. When his... fluency of movement and his creativity can expose your movement and make you have to move against the grain constantly does two things. One, you're on ice skate.
But you're not getting a clean shot on the ball. You can't bully him. And from a kind of fluttering ball or something that's not firmly hit, he can create as much speed as anyone in the world. Sinner, who's almost like an algorithm, right? You feel like you're watching a ball machine drill where he's going speed both sides, speed both sides. But he wants that clarity of step, right? He wants to be firm each time that he hits the ball.
when you kind of add a little bit of uncertainty beneath your feet, that actually affects him negatively. So his ability to move and his ability to play against his opponent's movement is like... the biggest mind fuck if you're playing him. It makes more sense to him under his feet because he's so gifted athletically. And I think it just screws people because you're having to guard against four different options all the time.
you know over the course of three hours or even five hours if it's three out of five Asked and answered. Thank you. What, you were going to filibuster more? No, that was good. I did not want to let this go without saying how much I enjoyed a one week master series. Uh, as long as we got that out. Well, listen, listen, I, There wasn't, I mean, Francis Tiafoe knew the drill. He went from Houston on a Sunday and played Tuesday afternoon in Monte Carlo. It's not a decision he had to make.
This, you can't sign. I was texting with someone who's involved with the masters 1000 and they're talking about scheduling and does this tournament really need a week or that week or whatever it was. And I'm going, that's a tough thing for you to ask. Cause you're one of them.
people who are adding weeks to the calendar like everyone in tennis and this is like kind of the ptpa's point like misrepresented in a lot of places, but the overall arching thing where people are attracted to the conversation is that everyone's just firing in a circle and not looking in the mirror. which I think is right. But I don't know that I've found anyone who's not benefiting financially.
directly from the extended format of a Masters 1000 who says, you know what? We tried it. This is a great, this is still a great idea. Not a single fucking person. I was thinking about that. And in tennis, we can disagree on everything as we've proven on this show. Well, mind you, this is just an ATP 1000. too right so some of the two-week ones those are all atp and wta correct yeah money color can't handle it the facility is not big enough to handle both
And it works out nicely in a week. But I had asked you, I was like, oh, is there prize money? Because everyone was like, oh my gosh, Carlos won $1.1 million to win this thing. I was like, is Monte Carlo have like a larger prize? option for the winter than everywhere else? And you're like, no. And we looked it up and it's on average with Indian Wells and Miami and the other ones. And ultimately, when you think about it, those are all too weak.
This is one, it's much better to go work a place for a week and make a million bucks. Are we talking about the overall or the price per day? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And it's tax-free. No, you know who's paying the price per day are the networks and the media rights are all being extended. But somehow that doesn't go to prize money. You know who really loves these long events? Actually, can we take a second on that? Let's go into that a little bit.
Can we take a second on that? Because I'm not naming names, but as soon as someone decides... I have a punchline. Oh, sorry. No, no, keep going. Correct me, but I don't want this to get lost. And then we're going to get back to the... John's open mic night. But I think... And as soon as the tournaments layer on the four or five days, and I'll say this the wrong way, but the general sentiment is correct. And I know this from one of the rights holders broadcasters.
They get locked into the price they're paying for like the last four days of the tournament. Like they're automatically locked in on the front end if they add five days and it's valued the same as like the last five days in the most. uh, lucrative parts of the tournament, which is fucking insane. Like having no seeds playing on like the Thursday, you know, 10 days before the final valued at the same metric as the finals is it's like, really? Yeah.
Is that your understanding, John? Yeah, no, you're totally right. That's one of the reasons. I mean, this is why if you own a Master Series event, that's one reason that you really like it. Yeah, exactly. And you're right that that is not reflected in prize money. As long as you brought this up, we're kind of freewheeling. It's early April, right? I mean, we're in a good point to schedule for doing this kind of thing.
I was listening to Mark Cuban sells the Mavericks, right? And he says something like, I don't have this in front of me, but this is pretty close. He's like, 21 out of 24 years I own this team, we did not make money. And you say, well, why would you own a team if it has year-to-year operating losses? You say, oh, that's right, because it is appreciated, whatever it was, 20x from...
when he bought it in 1999 or 2000. So you're willing to take on these year-to-year losses when the asset as a sports property is appreciated the way it has, right? I mean, you'd be crazy to say. And I'm thinking about this in terms of tennis. And I'm thinking now that these events are allegedly for sale, there was a Bloomberg story that Ari Emanuel might be trying to package a deal to buy some of the WME events. And we talk about Madrid. And I'm thinking.
These events are appreciating as assets, as sports assets tend to do. And so at some level, shouldn't the players be sharing in that? If the ATP is really a partnership and you have these tournaments that even if they have a couple, you know, operating losses, one year is a little bit down and the next year might be positive. But if these events are worth half a billion dollars.
isn't it a bit of a problem that the players are not seeing that appreciation? You sort of brought this up and I've been thinking about it. So I throw it out there. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what the metric, I mean, they're not. You know, Cuban's different because he, you know, has his money. There's an opportunity cost because it's locked up and he can't get anything out for a certain amount of time. But also like.
Cuban is able to sell the asset on the basis of the new TV contract that kicks in in 2026 or 2027, Mike. And he gets credit for that. You know, so it's not even just the revenue year to year. It's like if they sign a TV deal for three years in the future, he can trade off of that. Like it's very simple. But yes, the players should. get the benefit and that that's why we're looking at like the conversation isn't about
They're really good in tennis and it's the slams and it's the tours and it's everyone. Record prize money at the U.S. Open and they'll inch it above whatever the last record was. But all the while, if it's not on a percentage basis. that exists regardless of...
The US Open did a billion dollars just on site last year. But if 15% was at $600 million, shouldn't that be... It doesn't go in lockstep like... the nba where it's whatever the split is now 53 47 that two billion dollars in revenue or if it's 600 million dollars in revenue not as like oh we'll choose the prize money
this year kind of as it goes. Yeah, but they should obviously be participating in upside, which at this point, they're participating in the upside of a given week, not a given decade. so the people that like the spread out man spread masters events are the whatever it is seven seven tournaments and then
Reed Hastings or Reed Hastings and Netflix. These are a boon if you have Netflix stock, because that's all you do if you're a player and you're stuck in Toronto, Canada for 12 days before going to Cincinnati. Point being, there's literally no one in tennis outside these Masters 1000 owners, who I grant you are not insignificant figures, but I can't think of an issue.
that has near consensus dislike. And yet here we are. You parse that. Well, it's also, and I guess what I'm getting at, like with the percentages. So based on what I know about the... rights holders for the Masters 1000s. If they make an extra four or five days of revenue, you know, I'm not a mathematician, but if that's 11 days and you're up, you know, 40% or something on whatever the TV rights is, but then you up the prize money pool 2% and throw a parade.
There's a, and when there's not transparency about it, I only know this because I've had conversations with people I know kind of behind the scenes. But it's not transparent. Like we're adding a week and then they bluff it as like, this is good for you. No, no, no. We're doing this because this is good for you. Shut up. Shut up. This is for your health.
We didn't ask you what would be good for your health, but we're pretty sure this is good for your health. We don't need your opinion on it, but this is good for you. You don't think using the Marriott gym for six days is optimal training in the middle of the season? Hey, listen, you get rewards, right? Is that one of the – that's it? Yeah.
suitcase. Yeah. One of the things that also came out of Monte Carlo was, you know, they were asked about if they were going to make it a joint event with the WTA. And I'd asked you about it because on its surface, you're right.
all right, why isn't this a joint event? Why aren't we putting these thousands together? But really there is an issue with facility and size and that kind of leans into that. Can you kind of explain that? Because none of the articles really dive into that. They're just kind of like, oh, they're looking at it. Well, listen. Combined events are great. We all love them. If there's enough space, Indian Wells is maybe the best event of the year.
And also, it's fine if Monte Carlo is built on the side of a hill. You literally have... like a 400-foot drop from the bottom, which is center court, to the practice courts and some of the match courts that are up top, it's built on the side of a hill, so it's tiered down. You can't create more space. You just can't. And so even if they wanted to combine it and make it a two-week event...
They can't. It's just not feasible. But also, that's okay. The women go through the Middle East in February and have a couple of 1000s. That's fine. Not everything has to be the same. It's an imperfect... different priorities like you you can't just make everything into a two-week event, space has to matter. And Monte Carlo, it's maybe the most beautiful stadium in the world.
it wouldn't qualify. It got grandfathered and it wouldn't qualify for a lot of the different things with locker rooms, stadium capacity that they now put if you want to. take a license for Masters 1000, if any of these trade, there are certain metrics that Monte Carlo wouldn't...
wouldn't meet the thresholds in current times. They've been grandfathered in. Monte Carlo is a great event. Don't change a thing. Can I give you a quick little stat that I found to be hilarious? Please. Indian Wells is the biggest tournament. It covers 52 acres. Covers 69 acres. Nice. That's a great stat. That's a nice. That's a nice. That's a great. I mean, the other thing, dude, I like this freewheeling April on the same.
This is sort of adjacent. This is also why people say, I don't understand. Why don't we have more Masters 1000s on graph? And it's for exactly the reason Andy said. I mean, they're a finite number of... of venues, Wimbledon being one of them, that can give you the practice courts, the locker room facilities, the parking, the hospitality. There are not a lot of grass venues that could live up to
these sort of prerequisites that you have to have to have a master's in. But that's a great stat. I mean, 69 acres. 69 acres, yeah. wow beautiful the other thing about like it's a master series on grass yes i've wanted that forever like it should it should be the case The courts at the end of Wimbledon are trashed. Like, the wear and tear of them, it's not as if, like, you can't practice on the courts more than, like, as a seated player. Roger Federer.
The sixth time he was going for a sixth win. could practice exactly 45 minutes a day on the outer courts at Wimbledon. You don't get on stadium like you do at the other courts. It's untenable in grass. And they're like, well, just move it around early. I'm like, no, you can't move it. The slams are kind of set in place for a reason. You can't just create new dates that don't have an ebb and flow.
you know, off of Paris. And that's largely dictated by weather. Like you get some pretty shitty days in Paris, even in May, you get the rain outs and the, you know, where you're not doing much for two or three days. It's based on weather. Grass has to grow, believe it or not. You can't just move it to April. No, it's not possible. So there are some reasons, but also it's okay for these tournaments to live. in their own silo as long as it's inside of a week. I would rather have them be in a silo.
have their own character, then boil the ocean over 11 days. Failure. The long, every, every master's. And also I will provide the caveat because people are like, well, Indian Wells is doing it. Indian Wells. You're flying. Think about where you're flying from when you're going to Indian Wells. You're either coming from Europe to California or you're coming from the Middle East.
You have to have those five days of travel if you play in a final. 17 hours. It's not the same as going from Madrid to Rome. It's not, you don't need five days to get from Madrid to Rome. You can do that in the morning. You can have the next day off and you can play the next day. Like it's, it's there, there is it. There is sense to Indian Wells being in extended format a little bit based on where you're traveling from the week before, which is Dubai or somewhere like that.
One thing up, kind of changing topics here. Emirata Kanu apparently is stepping away for a little while to recalibrate. She bowed out of the- Recalibrate what? She was playing great. She just found her form. Why is she recalibrating? I don't know. She's backed out of the Billie Jean King Cup. Uh, she's skipping recent tournaments. Um, and she's rumored to potentially be bringing on, uh, Mark Petchy. I love Petchy. I love Petch. And by the way, he was there.
In that role. I was going to say, yeah, this is like Billy Martin. This is like round two. Yeah, this is a lot of rounds. He was there. He was mixing it in with Tennis Channel and they were, you know. letting him work with, not letting him, accommodating his commentary schedule based around working with Emma in Miami had great results. Like she looked great. She looked like a top 10 player. in Miami. I love that fit. I love the fit. Petchy seems to...
you know, I remember watching that was watching the coverage and I could see, you know, in Miami, you can see like big field with people and it was 10 minutes before she was going on. And they were playing this bouncy, you know, bouncy ball thing where you have like the trampoline thing and you're bouncing it off of, she was laughing, looked relaxed. I'm like, Oh, that looks.
Very, very, very comfortable. Love Mark Petchy. Love, I think he has a great tennis brain. I think he's endlessly curious about the game of tennis. And JW and Mike, I want your opinion, though, based on the churn of she's hired people for two days at a time, three weeks at a time. We have to be in the upper 20s. Does it affect, like she needs Petchy now because I got to think if you're... It's hard to enter into a new agreement, give up whatever else you have going on in life.
knowing that this could be a two-week situation. Mark obviously knows the deal. I think there's a longer-term relationship. I think that'd be great. I would actually be... fully supportive, but I think you're actually narrowing the pool of coaching talent just by virtue of you having this quick trigger on firing people. I mean, that's rational, right? No. We got a lot of data points now, don't we? I mean, this is not, yeah. I just, like, I get so frustrated.
Because I think she's so good for the game. I'm such a fan of hers. Personally, I like listening to her reasoning on things. And it's just like you get through the quarters and you finally are kind of getting momentum. And then you stop. Like, why put a speed bump in the middle of your season? I just, it just drives me, it seems like it happens over and over. It's hard though. It's a hard one for me. I mean, I'll just, this is truth serum here. It's a really hard one for me because.
At some level, we're partial to people that think outside the box and that don't do, I mean, whether it's the Williams sisters or whether it's, you know, Roger for a while didn't have any coach. I mean. It's kind of interesting. At one point, I know her father was interested. What if we hired one coach for each stroke? Who says you have to have one coach? We'll have a return coach, a serve coach, a backhand coach, and a forehand coach.
She is not sort of going through conventional tennis scheduling. She seems to pull out at strange times. I mean, the whole rhythm, right? I mean, the whole sort of trajectory of her career is bizarre. I mean, she was playing. She was playing an event in Landistown, Pennsylvania, and did not win it. Goes to the U.S. Open, qualifies, and wins a major. I mean, there's nothing conventional here, right? Her background is not conventional. The way she came to tennis, the way she...
projects, I mean, there is sort of, and I think we're sort of have a tropism, you know, I think people tend to think favorably about that. And yet there are so many sort of own goals. There are so many moves where you just scratch your head from. absolutely blowing through coaches. I mean, no player, you know, whatever. If it's not a great marriage, go find another coach. But just the sheer number of coaches she's blown through, sometimes when she's playing well.
is mystifying the pull-outs, the withdrawals. She doesn't want to qualify. I don't know. I mean, at some level, when a player takes ownership of their career and makes decisions that piss off the WTA and that piss off the establishment, you sort of want to wink the way we did with the Williams sisters 20 years ago.
But there are a lot of just really mystifying career management moves here. Would you, I don't know, where am I missing the boat here? The Williamses were consistent in their strategy. Right. It wasn't as if they were here. One thing, like I'm working on my fit and now I'm off and I'm on like they were. Listen, I got it wrong. I was next to them when they weren't playing junior tournament.
And we were all like, that's, you can't do that. That's like, you need to, how is Serena Williams ever going to become a great competitor? Right? Like the stupidest shit that's ever been uttered. They're just, but also like. Not at the expense, like Serena was open to input. once she got into her career it wasn't as if she wasn't going to steal best practices or you know racket technology or switch like she wasn't so stuck that they had a very
not traditional path. But then once they were there, you know, it was open season. She was always looking for that voice, that advantage, trying different things, but not like. I don't think you can get any feedback in an eight-day trial. Like, I don't even know what you're doing. It's like, you know, the craziest thing I've seen since the nuggets firing Mike Malone.
She is only 22 years old. I know. Honestly, wait, stop there, though, because that's not a bad analogy. I don't know. Would you want to go coach? I mean, Dan Hurley got out. Would you want to go coach Denver? Would you want to walk into that situation?
You know, with no prep time. Exactly. And I think the same thing. I mean, I think there's some of that, too. I mean, I don't I mean, you know, if you're a broadcaster, I mean, Petsch is great. He's from the UK. He doesn't have to probably sleep in his own bed. He has kids for age. It's a lot.
to recommend about patch. But yeah, I mean, at some level, you go through coaches at this rate. And I think a lot of coaches think, do I really want to get into that situation? I guess the point here is that I hope it really works. And this is all here. And based on his presence in Miami with her, I hope it really works because I think Petch is great. I hope this is like, I hope she gives a coaching relationship the chance to sink in.
I could give a shit who hires and fires. I have an opinion about it. But I think she is just so good for the game. And I think she's so good at tennis. that you don't want to hear. Last thing I want is four years from now, us having the same conversation like we've been having for the last three and a half years. I hope it sinks in with the patch. I think the world of patch. I think the world of Emma, I think she's, I think she's phenomenal. And I hope it just.
there there's some tolerance for something being uncomfortable and not this knee jerk let's get out and then restart and whatever your word was recalibrate recalibrate i don't know what that means somebody commented like i know what it means normally yeah it's just like okay no no you guys are quarters let's build
We got momentum. Let's build. Let's keep it going. Let's keep it rolling. Maybe that is it, right? I get pulling out of Billie Jean King Cup. Maybe it's like, just pull out of a couple things now. We know we have a run-up through French and Wimbledon that's going to be fairly local, right? Well, and I don't think, like, if we presented it as, hey, listen, this was always the case, I'm going to really put in three weeks with Pet.
and and we're not going to kind of do it on the fly of playing matches that makes sense then then tell us that like i was not in a hurry to get over to europe because my you know i i knew i was going to play fine okay maybe hopefully You know, make the semis of Rome was a great result for me on clay. Roland Garros, not really my thing. But my eyes were, I automatically, once Miami finishes, I'm thinking about Wimbledon and how do I ramp up? Because that's really where.
you know the ceiling so if she's just i don't think clay is going to be her best surface you know, I think she's obviously great on clay. She's really good on grass. Like, so maybe, maybe that's the strategy. And if that is, I hope that it is a strategy that is like, this is our next three months and it's, you stick to it. Right. Your guy, Roger Federer, said he's really tired of playing golf, and he wants to make a comeback to a court near you, maybe fill stadiums again.
In exhibition mode though, not professionally. Yeah. Uh, he's, I know this, like, I don't, I don't think people really fully understand how bad his knee was and how many times a surgery didn't go. Like, not even just to play tennis. But even when he played doubles to finish Labor Cup, that was really dicey. Like when I saw him at Labor Cup.
in 21 and people are like oh he's gonna come back and he was on crutches and he was hiding them for like photo ops that's crazy like he he was his knee was very bad i know that he's always wanted to do a bigger goodbye It sounds like maybe now the knee is healthy enough where... where he could probably entertain it. You know, I think people want to be able to say goodbye to him.
I can't imagine. I mean, I know the shots that he was able to hit when the chips were down, as far as that would make you go ooh and ah. Imagine if, you know, it was just an open canvas and a paintbrush and he could mess around and there was no real consequence. That'd be amazing. You know, I'm sure. I love that. I mean, you know, this is all speculation, obviously. I mean, you know, when Juan Martin Del Potro can fill a soccer stadium for his goodbye, what would...
What would a Roger, if the knee is healthy and we can do this thing right, what do you think a Roger farewell would look like? I'm guessing you want to hit different markets. So I'm guessing he wants to see South America. I'm guessing there's obviously going to be in Basel. There's going to be somewhere in London, the places where he is.
created the most memories i'm sure madison square garden i'm sure he's going to hit all of these massive arenas you know and then can you convince rafa to come for three where you sell out a hundred thousand people somewhere like where you're saying goodbye to both of them simultaneously
I don't know. But what I do know is that this is fantastic. I think everyone probably wants a chance to see him one last time. I think he was hurt. He was hurt. He was hurt. We got him for a doubles match, and then that was it. doesn't feel like enough for tennis fans. So I'm happy. I'm happy. I think this is great. And it's going to kind of set precedent for it. We have these giants of tennis. Does Serena go, oh, is there a double bill?
I don't know. Like it opens up. I mean, they could sell. Fill the Rose Bowl. Go fill Jerry's World. I mean, that'd be incredible. They could do it. If only there were an American contemporary of Roger Federer. I'd also get in on you. Maybe Roger likes Dingles. Excuse me. I would like to hear from this point forward, I would like to be. called by my new formal name if needed. The Washington Generals.
Harlem Globetrotters reference. I'll take it. To your point, it's interesting. It's going to be a mix and match. He's going to have to play someone. If you go to Argentina, obviously it's like you ask Juan Martin, is your knee healthy enough? This would be fantastic.
France, who knows? Is it Mumphys? Is it Sangha? Is it someone that he's somehow played against? Or is it like you're trying to book Rafa for as many dates as possible? Or, you know, I don't know. I'm sure there's going to be a local flair, but if they walk this out, is it... three cities in Europe or are we doing 25 cities across earth?
There's a lot. There's a lot. It's fun. It's fun to think about. Making a proper tour. Yeah. A little T-Swift action. He can just keep extending it. Yeah, but also he's going to, like, I think that run from, like, post-US Open through Australia. Oh, my God. He could shift a little bit of tennis interest, I think. Did you guys ever see it was on the eve of COVID? I'll actually tell you a funny side story, but it was on the eve of COVID. But remember the event in South Africa that he did?
With Rafa? Yep. I mean, it was philanthropy. It wasn't. I mean, you could spin forward, but this was in no way sort of a career send-off. But boy, if you could replicate that, 24 arenas all over the world. You got something. You got a good documentary too. But yeah, I mean, right before COVID, they had that, I'm blanking on the name of it, but they hit for Africa.
Yeah, it was Bill Gates, Trevor Noah was doing it, but they did 100,000 people. Exactly. Yeah, the match for Africa. 100,000 people. Crazy. Exactly. Should we give our friend Lindsey a quick bouquet? Yeah, we should. Lindsey Davenport. BJK Cup. So basically the short version is... She had this team that was stacked. Pagula was going to play. Pagula wins Charleston. Understandably, this is not a – Jessie Pagula, she's a throwback. She's a worker. She shows up to work every day.
She decides she can't go to BJK Cup. Lindsay... Gets her team together. Baptiste, Para, they played fantastic. Get through Slovakia, which weirdly they had never beaten in the artist formerly known as Fed Cup, now Billie Jean King Cup. Props to Lindsay because anyone who doesn't know her doesn't even realize how nervous she is on the side. She talked about it on our show. She did a phenomenal job. being the steadying force getting through to the the finals that
look like they're going to be in China in September. That should be a comfortable one for the U.S. to go into right now. Good thing the schedule is not – we'll save this for our schedule show, but good thing the schedule isn't clogged. No, Lindsay was, Lindsay was fantastic. One other thing. Can we talk about the atmosphere when there aren't phones?
Oh, Back to the Masters? When you're watching the Masters. So cool. And you get the reaction to literally some person, human, working a scoreboard and putting up a score. of something that's 800 yards away happening somewhere else. And you get a, ah, you get that entire broadcast is so much better because. We know what's happening, but they get a lot of juice out of the squeeze of showing the crowd reacting to...
things that happen. I think we've got to explain this. I think we've got to explain to people what we're talking about here, right? This is not the Monte Carlo masters. When you go to Augusta to the green jacket map. I mean, I've had friends that literally were thrown off the grounds. It's like going to a comedy show where you've got to check your phone. So even these guys who fly in on their golf streams, no one can have a phone on the golf.
And part of that, you're right. You're free of distraction. But also, you know, you watch these games, even, you know, the game seven of a World Series and you look behind home plate and everybody's looking down. I mean, to me, it was sort of. The crowd in the galleries actually could watch what they had paid to watch. Crazy concept. And I think that really...
I mean, jump back in. But I feel like that really changed the experience for people at home, too, when the crowds there were not distracted and they were watching what was in front of them, which used to be why we went to sporting events. And also... I think everyone was just kind of unified. We respect Justin Rose. We're going crazy for Rory. We're not looking for the opinions of every other person that's not there. We're not getting feedback in real time. We're just kind of feeling.
So for live events, no phones. For, I don't know, let's call it. Tuesdays after live events. Take out your phones, take out your tablets, check us out on Serv Media, YouTube, Apple, Spotify. I thought it was great and I just couldn't get over. the thoughts of expectations and accomplishment and how we digest that. Is it fair? Is it not? I'm sure it's somewhere in between. Pump for Rory McIlroy. I thought that was fantastic. Apparently, I'm going to say something crazy.
Carlos Alcaraz is really good at tennis. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He might lose next week and it's all going to be okay. Yeah. It's all going to be fun. May 5th. May 5th. First week of May. Turns 22. You know who comes back May 4th? Tell me. you