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I was speaking with someone. Someone said, well, you know, everybody's tired because nobody wants to get played. This week on Explain It To Me, why is it so hard for men to meet women these days? Online and especially IRL. Find Explain It To Me Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, welcome. This is Served, presented by Picasso. Guys, we had a day. We had...
Quick 36. Quick 30. That's generous. I had a quick 24. You guys had to pack up the stuff. Yeah. You guys have a lot of stuff. Production is... There's no carry-ons in production. We kept that team light too. That was... So four dudes in some cases. So we, four dudes in some cases, the documentary about documentaries. Uh, we went down, uh, the Nadal camp, Benito Rafa.
They were nice enough to host us in the Dominican Republic where he has some business going on. Gave us an hour to sit down. I mean, he was in the midst of doing hotel tours. And then he sat down with us and then he met with the president. The president of the Dominican. He was like, sorry, I have to go. I have to go show the president around. And I was like, oh, OK. Yeah, yeah. So nice to meet you. Who doesn't? Yeah.
But it was very nice of them. I guess the point I'm trying to make, it was very nice of them to reach out to us and say, we'd love to have you come down. Rafa hasn't really spoken much post-retirement. And he'd love for you to host you guys and have you come down and chat for an hour and squeeze us in, in between, you know, meeting the president of countries that he is in.
But we had a great time. The opportunity was awesome for us. I think, you know, for me, I love doing this show. One, it's fun, engaged. I've fallen in love with tennis all over again after taking, you know, almost a 10 year hiatus from doing anything with it. And I've never gotten the opportunity to sit down and talk.
tennis with Rafa, even though we played 10 plus times, never, but it's just not something you do. Yeah. I remember the first time I did it with Roger was we were, he invited me to, to labor cup one year. in boston and we sat in the front row and watched like two sets of a match it was sits a pass i think against against curios and we were just what are you seeing what are you doing what would you do and it was we had never done that because you just don't do that you're busy doing that
to the person in confidence. But the conversation we were able to have with Rafa just to see the way his mind thinks, kind of a pretty... Pretty big overview of his career over decades. The start, the finish. He went into depth about the last year and a half. And what were the difficult parts about that? What his thinking was? Keep going. Stop.
I wondered if he was close to pulling the plug before he did at any moments. Anyways, all those questions answered. Some strategic stuff about Roger and Novak, and I won't root it anymore, but we are... humbled that he chose to spend some time with us and expand upon his career. He was so relaxed, so honest. It was cool.
You know, so I won't ruin it. I could sit here and talk about the interview for an hour, but we'll just let you hear it. On the other side of the break, the legend Rafa Nadal brought to you by Picasso right here on Served. Support for Serve comes from Picasso.
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I've been asking some very smart people a question that's been on a lot of our minds. Should we be worried about artificial intelligence? But the answers I got from the greatest minds in AI surprised me. One guy told a parable of an AI that could cause an apocalypse. Let's give this super intelligent AI a simple goal. Produce paperclips. Via paperclip?
Another woman cast AI as an octopus. We posit this octopus to be mischievous as well. And yet another story sounded like it was out of the Bible. She seems likely to drown. What should you do? Imagining AI as a savior. Like a god, kind of. And all of these fantastical tales from the greatest minds in AI made me wonder, maybe even these people don't know what to think.
I'm Julia Longoria, Good Robot, a series about AI coming March 12th on Unexplainable, wherever you get podcasts. All right, welcome back to Served. As promised, the legend himself, Rafa Nadal, has joined us. We are down here at Zell Hotel and Resort for the opening here in Punta Cana. You've been busy since you retired. You retired and I feel like all you're doing is building and hotels and this is your first hotel outside of Spain, I think, if we're correct.
Are you ever going to take a break? Or is it just into the next thing? Hello, Andy. Thanks for being here. It's a pleasure to see you again. Since I retired, I was not... was not as much time off that I supposed to have. But it's normal. When you have a big change in your life, you need to organize the new life. So I take it like it's the first year going to be a little bit like this to organize and to discover a little bit.
what i want to be in in in in this net next step of my life and then i think the thing's going to be uh better organized and i gonna I'm going to have everything more under control. But it's normal. Now, the first couple of months after retirement, I have to be there. I have to be the other place, some meetings, some awards. So it's, yeah. that's that's life are you enjoying
anything differently post-retirement. I know when I retired, all of a sudden, I wasn't in a rush to get out of dinner to go prep for the next day or to get ready for the next match, even though you are busy and doing amazing things with your foundation, your academies.
uh, with the hotel groups, are you still finding time, you know, or at least being intentional about finding time, uh, you know, with family? I saw you eating breakfast with your family here this morning. It was, it was, it was beautiful to see. Yeah. I mean, When you are on the tour, I think that the way that you approach your...
your diary basis is completely different than when you stop it. Then when you are there, you feel that you need to be on a rush all the time. And even when you have, I remember, even when I have a few free days.
days off i wanted to do all these things that i am not able to do it no so the time is uh is precious now it's different different approach still i'm still adapting to to all of this but of course uh give me the the feeling that i i can uh enjoy more what i am doing no i am not uh thinking okay and i only have one hour because
to be there you know it's it's a different approach and i'm enjoying this this new part of uh of my life but as as everything you know all the big changes takes takes takes a few time I want to talk through, and obviously we want to get to your career. And I had a hard time as someone who played against you, as someone who's watched you as a fan, going through your history with the sport.
and your accomplishments it's tough to pare down like what is actually uh what you can talk about specifically because it's so big right what you've accomplished is is is so massive But I want to talk through, I want to start with the last year that you were on tour, right? The stop and the start. Am I healthy enough to play? Am I not? Can I still reach the best level?
Or is it time to shut it down? And all the while knowing, you know, when you're 23 years old, you're going, okay, I know I'm good enough and I need to schedule accordingly to make sure I'm at my best here, as opposed to maybe the last year. just trying to find your best for for that moment in time can you walk us through kind of uh how it was tough mentally physically for the last year and and with the decision looming yeah i i mean in in some way i'm a
A positive guy. Last year, of course, I've been mentally tough and I went through some... painful moments in terms of accepting things during all this process uh you go through like uh a mountain of of emotions now so uh it's it's difficult to to explain in words but okay to put everything in perspective uh i mean in 2022 i was winning uh slabs the first two uh exactly then i got i got injured uh in wimbledon i i had my abdominal break being in semi-finals
I was not able to be on court. And then in the US Open, in the previous days of the tournament start, I had to gain a tear on my abdominals. So in my mind... was okay now After that, I became father, so it was a little bit different approach of the end of the year. But I said, OK, I'm going to prepare myself. I have been playing very well. I'm going to prepare myself to start 2023 in good shape. Then what happened in 2023 is...
uh in the first tournament of the year well second but yeah first in slam i i against mackenzie mcdonald i i had a big thing in the in the so as iliac So here I start the big process because in theory it was an injury that it will recover properly even. if it had been an important one, but it's going to take time. But I was practicing, practicing, practicing, and I felt that the things were not evolving the way that I wanted. So it arrived a point that we decided to go for surgery because...
You know, after talking with different doctors, top specialists on that area, they say, OK, if you want to keep playing on the tour, I think the only way is... to go through a surgery, an important one, but we think that you're going to be able to come back. Okay, so I accept the challenge because at that time, for me, there were some doubts. If I have to do it already, okay. I have...
37 years old, so maybe it's the time to stop. And okay, let's stop it and don't go through all the process. But I accept that. I decided to keep fighting because... in some way three months before i was being one of the best of the world and competing for the most important event so and at the same time i was enjoying doing what i am doing what i what i was doing so i tried after the surgery the
the things were went more or less well but they find a little bit bigger problem in in the psoas iliac they had to remove an important part of it but After that, I started all the recovery process. So take it like six to seven months. And I started practicing. I felt quite well. The problem is I still had the feeling that I was not able to push. I felt some limitations in that area. That is an important area, of course.
So I give myself just a time to see if I am able to recover myself the proper way. Because in terms of tennis, I still feeling myself. Well, competitive. I didn't feel that I lost speed on the ball. Just need to recover the physical confidence and take it out of the limitation. That's why... Doing all these months have been difficult because in some way I felt, okay, let's keep fighting because at some point maybe that's going to work well. But weeks.
One week, another week, another week. I was able to compete, but I was not able to compete at the level that I wanted for different reasons. Because I was not playing enough well, maybe. But inside myself... was because i was not able to move the way the the that i was used to move no so arrive a moment that after after olympics uh i come back home and i say okay it's over I feel it. You know, before I didn't feel it, but I wanted to give myself the time. After that, I say, okay.
don't make sense anymore. With this issue, I don't feel that I'm going to come back being competitive at the level that motivates me. So then, when I felt that, for me, it's over. I want to get to the Olympics in a second because it was one of the more special moments that I saw in your career during the opening ceremony. I do want to spend a minute on...
the training aspect versus healthy. Cause I think when, you know, when us dummies pundits who talk about tennis talk about it, it's like, you're healthy. You're not healthy. But you also have to be healthy enough to train the way you want to be prepared. It's not as if, okay, you don't have pain here anymore.
I'm ready to go. It's pain here anymore, but then I need to feel what it's like to get out of the corners where you're not compromised. So it's not even healthy enough just to participate without pain. You have to be healthy enough to train. You're someone who... No one ever questioned whether or not you were going to be prepared if you chose to take the court. So explain basically just your process and how do you have to feel in practice in order to feel like you can somehow find something.
on the match court? Well, I was able to come back at a very high level after injuries during most of the times in my career because I was able to... First of all, I was not a guy, maybe because I had plenty of injuries, but I was not that guy that I come back and I have fear of hard me gain. You know, I was not...
Going out again, I was not thinking, OK, I need to take care here, because if not, something negative can happen again. No, I was able to, OK, I come back from injury things, I'm feeling well now, so let's practice, let's prepare. I just in some way forgot quick what happened. So I was able to go on court, practice with the intensity that I needed, and then... I think I recovered quite fast the physical intensity and the tennis level was not a big issue for me.
most of the times. Times, of course, as you know very well, sometimes you play it. I don't know about your level, no. I have no idea what it feels like to be at your level. You know exactly the same. You know exactly the same than me, that sometimes you feel better, sometimes you feel worse. part of the business. But I was able to recover well. Then it's about you have limitations or you don't have limitations. So that's it.
After this last injury, the thing is I have limitations. Before I had important injuries, but when I came back, I had limitations maybe one day, but not all the time. you are able to live with that and to go on court. And you don't feel, okay, maybe I have limitation today, but most of the days I don't have that limitation. So you're still believing that, okay.
I can keep fighting for the most important things. When you have limitations all the time, then you start feeling, okay, how I beat this guy, how I beat this. You have to take risks that you wouldn't normally take or make decisions you wouldn't normally make. Exactly. Of course, a guy like me that I have been practicing all my career with very, very high intensity. That's the way that I understand the sport. That's the way that I enjoy the sport. So when I am not able to do that anymore.
Then, for me, it's not anymore that interesting. It was interesting watching from afar. And I remember vividly this one moment where you played in Rome. It didn't go the way you wanted to.
and it felt like everyone all they wanted to do because there was the element of not knowing if we would see you at certain tournaments that you've won 10 times again i felt like everyone wanted to celebrate you and it almost felt like you didn't want to be celebrated because you weren't finished in your mind yet i remember seeing rome and you had lost and seeing
there was this amazing shot of the overhead view. It must've been a drone or something. Whereas tens of thousands of people, you know, and you felt like they were there. Because they wanted that moment to say goodbye or to wait. It had to be a weird situation for you to have all these people. that want to say goodbye to you. I didn't want it. But you're not ready to say goodbye yet. But I will say one of the things I'm amazingly happy you did. I was amazed.
I hope you understand and I'm sure you do the significance of Olympics opening ceremony. When you're walking the torch, you from Spain taking the torch from Zidane in Paris. That's not something that happens. That takes decades of respect. That was one of the coolest moments of my tennis fandom. And I was proud for our sport. I was obviously proud for you. I was happy, but also... Having that much history in that city to the point where they're going, you know what?
You're Spanish, but you're also one of us. You are one of the most important figures in French sports history. How did that go down? When did you know? When did you get that phone call to participate? And what did you feel? Well, I will never. We'll have the chance to thank enough the organizers, the French people and... the Olympic team to give me that moment. Honestly, you know, without being French, give me that moment because it's not a moment.
of the ceremony they gave me that moment uh with the receive the torch from uh zidane uh in front of the eiffel tower i mean uh have been one of the most emotional moments in my in my tennis career without a doubt uh olympics is something something else because it's not only i mean It's not only tennis, it's the most important event of our world that is a sport. So be part of it have been, for me, a recognition that...
meant a lot to me. And of course, in Paris, the history that I had with that city is difficult to explain. honestly because i i really don't know how we arrived to that numbers that for me are uh i mean difficult to imagine but it happened uh and For me, feel the love of the people and the support of the people in the most important place in my career is something that makes me feel very proud, very happy. And I am incredibly thankful to all of them.
It was well deserved. I remember I was watching and everything's a surprise when you're watching the opening ceremony. I didn't know, by the way. You asked me that before. I received a phone call from the team, from the president of the organization, the Olympic Committee in French, that tell me, we want you to be part of the ceremony. I say,
Okay, for me will be an honor. But honestly, when I, that day, normally I will go with the Spanish team on the boat, but I was not able to do it because... Did you know, you knew exactly what you were going to do? No, I didn't know. Wait, they didn't tell you what you were going to do?
Five minutes before, 10 minutes before. Stop it. 100%. I know I will be... Yeah, because it was a super secret. I know I arrived there. Okay. So when honestly, the feeling is I didn't know what's going to happen. So... because they wanted to be completely sacred, you know, like a surprise. So I was there in like a small area waiting like half an hour before, because it was a mess to get there with all the people, it was raining, it was crazy.
Then when they, okay, it's time. So when we were walking there, so they start to explain me. So you're going to be there. You're going to pick up the torch from... What did you, did your heart sink? I was nervous because I don't know what's going to be, but for me, when we see the image, I going up stairs, going to the stage to pick up the torso.
In that moment, I had like two minutes of waiting there. So when I realized the moment, I started to cry a little bit before. And when I started to cry, I said, Shut up, man. Stop it. It's not the moment to cry. It's the moment to enjoy. So I say, okay. Try to not be... Too emotional, just enjoy the moment. So I say, okay, let's go out, let's do the thing. And yeah, let's have fun.
Uh, and yeah, it was amazing. Well, I, we, I was, I was emotional. I was, you were, you were crying two minutes before I was crying two minutes afterwards, but I was so proud for you and for our sport to have that representation, uh, on that stage. Um, something I, I, I,
It's funny. I love doing this show because I get to talk tennis with people that I've never, we've played. We know a lot of the same things, but we've never actually talked about tennis, right? Yeah. So I'm fascinated by a couple of things. right, that I want to get into is one, your learning curve. It seems like you rarely made the same mistake again, right? So I saw you and I lived the personal example of your progression. that made me go oh we play the first time he played
I had heard about your name. You had beaten Moya the year before when you were like nine years old in Hamburg. You killed me almost with the surf. I had to. That would have been the easiest route. I was too young and too brave to try to return inside. You served me to the body. I had to. And every time I played a young player at Arthur Ashe, I did the same thing. And it was like one of two ways.
I'm glad you brought it up because I think I hit one. I was feeling at that because I didn't want to lose to this young kid at the U.S. Open. But normally... you do that to someone who's on ash for the first time and they they laugh they make a they make a thing they do like it's like the show and you didn't give me anything it's like you just looked away and acted like i didn't hit 150 and i was kind of proud of myself for a second so
I go through that matchup, that surface, that moment was good for me. It was probably the last time that we ever played that it was good for me. We played 10 weeks later. They sub you in an hour before the match and they take out Juan Carlos Ferreira, who's former number one French Open champion, and they put you in after I had won in a very lopsided way.
And I remember after the US Open, I said, this kid is really good. He doesn't serve big enough yet. There are some things I feel like I could bully him around the court. And obviously it's a fast, hard court. And so I'm going. okay, this is going to be a year, two years, there's going to be a process. And it took me exactly 10 weeks to change my mind about you in a completely different way.
We play a Davis cup. They throw you in at that point. It was the largest crowd that had ever viewed a sanctioned tennis match. So we played to half a football stadium. I remember walking out and it was, it was. At that point in my career, I'd been in most situations in a short amount of time and it all happened very quickly. And when I'm telling you, you didn't blink the situation, it was as if.
There weren't all these external things going on. Head down and you'd made me win every point five and six times. And I remember sitting down and I go, I need to find a way to get something easier, right? My body is hurting. This kid's body isn't hurting. And I walked off the court that time and I went, oh, okay. He will be great. But then the questions are, he's going to be great on clay. Can we transition to...
the other surfaces. And my two favorite statistics about your career are the all-time record for slams before you three crazy people came on was 14 slams by Pete Sampras. You match that in one Grand Slam tournament. Like you've completely ruined the conversation for mortal players, like completely. And then you've won eight slams outside of clay.
Which, just for context, and I want people to kind of absorb that because obviously you're the greatest clay court player ever. Obviously, I think you're the toughest out on a given surface, on a given court in the history of our game. Eight majors outside of clay is the amount of majors that people like Agassi, one in total, Connors, one in total, Lendl, one in total. It's more than Becker. It's more than Edberg.
A couple of things that I want to know is your learning curve. Was it instinct? Was it natural? Is it something you thought about? You just didn't seem to like, there was never a moment after that Davis cup match where I, where I was like, Oh, he's a young prospect, but it's going to take him a couple of years. I'm like, he's here. He's dialed. He's different mentally than he was when I saw him two months ago.
Is that innate? Is that something that was worked on as a combination of those things? I think it's about having, first of all, the right determination and the right people next to you. I mean, I have been a guy that... come from somewhere from a sporty family. My uncle was a football player. He played three World Cups. uh representing spain and my uncle that was my coach for most time of my my life uh was uh yeah
was a good tennis player, not that high level was a good tennis player, but was a fanatic of tennis. So in some way, all my life, since I was a kid, I was educated to be better, better and better. I mean... to have the determination to improve you know so all all my practices honestly were dedicated to to be better you know i i never approached a single practice without the motivation to improve something That's the truth.
For me, just practice for practice, to be in good shape, don't motivate me much. That's true, for me it's boring, you know, what's inside me, what's giving me that extra... uh motivation is go on court with the with the with the determination to improve something and in that moment i knew even if i played a good match with that
Very good match with you in Sevilla in the final Davis Cup. That was one of my favourites of my career, without a doubt, because it was the first big victory of my career. I knew in that moment that I had plenty of things to improve. And even the year after... uh when i when i become world number two and i won that year i mean 2005 i won 11 tournaments uh i won my first it's true but that year was the year that i won more tournaments in my in my career
I played a lot, but then I finished with a very important, the most important injury in my career, that was the foot at the end of the year. But I won my first Master 1000 Hallhardt. I was in Montreal. I won my... André? André. against Agassi in the final. It was a great final. And then I won in Madrid against Lubitschik in Inders. Five sets. And after that, I got the injury. I got the injury during the match. So, in some way...
I tell you, people, because I start winning a lot on clay, people start thinking about me, that I am a clay core player. But the truth... Of course, my game adapts well naturally to the clay, but I love playing on fast course. And probably people...
It's normal that the people, of course, are still winning. I finished my career winning a couple of US Opens. But my second best surphrase was grass. I think so, too. The true... is that the the problem that i had on grass because we can't lose the perfect i played the final in 2006 so was wasn't that It's not that it takes me five years to start playing well on grass. I lost in second round, 2005. But of course... Muller. Muller. Again, Gilles Muller.
But in 2004, I was not able to play because I was injured. 2003, I beat Mario Ansic already, first round. On grass? On grass. That's a good win. I played him in the semis the next year. Exactly. He beat Roger there before. So my game adapted. I was a guy that was able to adapt well to the surf races. On grass, I played the final in 2006, 2007. I won 2008. 2009, I was not able to play. Thank you.
That was my part of the draw. No, it doesn't matter because it was not my year. But then I won in 10 and I played the final in 11. So I played without... Playing in 2009, I played like five finals in a row, you know? So then arrived a point that I was not able to play anymore on grass for... A lot of years. It's not like I forget playing con grass. It's simply that my knees were not holding. I was not able to slow down. That was the hardest service for you physically? 100%. For the knees.
Because I was not able to play on grass, I needed to feel the control of my knees. And my knees were super bad. So after that, 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16. my knees were not good enough to play on grass. And then I recovered well from the knees. So then I started playing again well on grass. It was 17, 18, 19. So during this period of time that was very important years of my tennis career, my body...
My knees didn't allow me to play on grass. That's the truth. And then for me, it was painful because I felt that my chances were bigger. If I was healthy enough on, on grass, then honestly, I prefer to play against Novak on grass than on heart. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a crazy thing to say out loud, but I actually don't disagree with you. Talk, talk about the adjustments because.
One, talk about the fit on clay. And I want to know through your eyes because I've explained it on this show before where we've talked about, I try to talk about the challenges with... playing you or Novak or Roger, but like in very specific terms, right? So my backhand is not good. I have to hit a cross court. That's where I like to hit it. That goes into your forehand, right? My options then are to check.
you know my footwork one or two steps this way to protect my backhand and i could always tell playing you in the first 10 or 15 minutes you could either give me the slow death where you just keep pounding to my backhand side i'm hitting them above my my head you know trying to find line either to get to your back end and then at least it drives traffic a different way But then in the first 10 minutes, I feel like at least in our matchup,
The shot that showed me I was in real trouble was if I hit a good backhand cross and you would wait and then you would wait until the last second and sling it line. And there would be 15 feet that I would have to make up. So now my decisions are. stay home and be shitty on my backhand on this side or give him free access to that side to protect the forehand. Break down what, like on clay especially, did you feel... How did you kind of...
negotiate strategy because both of those were great options, right? You can come, you can go after people, especially later in your career, the further your career went on, the more you could be aggressive off of both sides, especially your back inside. And when you would stick a cross court and kind of pin people in that.
corner. Uh, but just talk through clay, your process. Why does it fit so well? And not in like a, like a simplistic version where it's like, he slides, he's big, he hits a, you know, the spin mechanisms crazy, but Did you have to make any adjustments for that surface or was your stock game just a perfect fit for clay? Yeah. I mean, it's true that I have a few things that are natural that helps, you know.
my movements, I was able, as you know, to slice very well. I was able to slice very well with both legs, something that a lot of... players are able to slice well only with one side with one side you know so i was able to to slice crossing legs open stance on defense mostly on the forehead on defense on running from the from the from drop shot so that that's
Even on clay, one thing it's important, okay, you can play well without having a very good capacity of sliding, but... I tell you, you get much more power.
and much more control if you are sliding. Even in not a very difficult ball, when you arrive with the right slide, you get the control, you get the power on the legs, and you are able to hit the ball with better... quality spin no so what what i feel that why i was uh that good in that surface is first thing i am lefty helps in some way because i was able to to push back the opponents with my forehand against their backhand. And then I was able to... I was quick enough.
to be on control with my forehand. And when that happens, I was not amazing winner shot making, but... Because I was playing with high intensity most of the shots, sometimes I was doing winners without... I would say winners at the top, like the best players in the world. You know that, right? winners aren't hit, they happen. Exactly. I mean, I was not looking for a winner, but happened to win it. So at the end for me, in a basic way, I was the player that I was able to play.
better quality shots without taking many risks. My ball was creating a lot of damage on the opponent without having a lot of risk for myself. that balance on clay is decisive. You can't pick up the ball too early because it's dangerous. If you go too far, okay, you can play, but it's difficult. So I was able to manage the aggressive part and the defending, and I was able to...
to go through defending zone to offensive zone quick. So that's, I think, creates in general what happened is when I was playing very well, of course.
i was winning a lot of matches but when i was not playing that well i probably the opponents felt that they have to play uh for a very long time very long time and very precise so in some way i created the stress on the on the opponents in the in in that matter i can confirm that stress uh the the things with sliding too also i'm glad you said it is
Playing defense in different ways against some people, you know, playing a chip down is, is for, and for other people, you were able to be like fully extended, still get the ball up, but actually take pace off of it. So all of a sudden we're restarting from above. our heads again, which is impossible. And also you would slide in, hit the shot and in the same motion, you would have already made it two feet back to the center. So it makes the court feel about this big.
when when you're playing against you on clay and I wasn't good on clay anyways and then you know to play you twice in Davis Cup was a was a real problem um talk about the adjustments because I've I actually said last year um, on our show after Roland Garros, we were talking about what's next. And I said, I think Rafa's best surface is, is grass outside of, outside of clay. And I said, I actually think, you know, if he's not moving as well as he, he did, I actually think he can.
has the potential to go further in Wimbledon than maybe any slam and put the least amount of wear and tear on the body. But talk us through, because I would get so mad, but it was from a place of envy. where you would win Roland Garros, and then Grass, I think, was my best surface. Win Roland Garros, and then we would play, and you would literally be there the next day after winning Roland Garros. You'd be at Queens or wherever.
You had gone from like return position for the last six weeks where it's a little bit further back and you're trying to create some space. And then I would walk by your practice court and I would just see you ripping returns from a foot inside the baseline. And I'd be going like, what is going on? Talk about that transition. And I want to hear about your slice because I think especially on grass.
you would use it different you would always use it up the line to kind of drive traffic to your forehand and then i don't care what service we're on that forehand that you were able to create but just talk about how the chess match was a little bit different once you got to grass? Well, first of all, I enjoyed a lot the transition. I love it. And I make a big mistake in 2005.
That's because 2005, after winning, that's normal. It's natural. It's human. After winning my first Grand Slam, I was young. I won Roland Garros. Then my mind was, OK, I won Roland Garros. So I didn't put... all the tension to the grass court season. And I went to Halle, and I lost the first round. And then I arrived to Wimbledon. I lost to Muller. So for me...
In my mind, I played the semifinals being juniors in Wimbledon when I was 16 years old. So in my mind, it was, OK, I need to play well on grass. It was one of my motivations and my goals. So after that... I said, okay, if I keep winning Roland Garros, next day I'm going to be practicing Congress. It's like a mental obligation to not lose time thinking about if I won.
rolling arrows of if i won a great clay core system so okay it's over i need to be focused on grass that's why it's like more uh a way to say okay that's passed i need to be focused on grass and i love that that that transition because i after playing on play for two months two months and a half you know you it's like changing completely uh the mindset and you learn again how to how to move on grass uh the shots that create damage on clay
on grass don't create damage so you need to approach the point in a different way and it's about learning again uh how to play on grass and put in perspective that i was not you i was not getting many free points on on grass so i need i need to i need to very well from the baseline because on grass when you have a big serve in some way you arrive i mean you are not that adapted from the baseline but if you are getting three points okay
The match is there, you know, and you can create some good shots in the important moments and you win the match. Now, in my side, from my perspective, I needed to play well. from the from the baseline because my surf okay can help a little bit of course one of the reasons that i felt that i was better on grass than on on hard especially at the beginning of my career is because my surf
Even if it was not a good serve on grass, I was able to get some free points. And on hard was more difficult for me. But I enjoyed the way to... To use the slice, I was able always to, I tried to use the slice a little bit down the line. And then I was, because I was quick with the legs, I was able to pick up the next shot with my forehand. and be aggressive. And I enjoyed that feeling that, okay, on grass is not...
is not an option to speculate about. I can be defensive if I can be offensive. No, I have to be offensive. It's recognizing that first ball and taking that first shot. Exactly. I mean, it's not choice. If I go defensive, I don't have any chance. So that? helps to my mindset because i mean i am a player that i was not people sometimes
things that I am defensive. I don't consider myself defensive because I feel that I am a player that I was able to play every shot with a goal. So I was not defensive, but I am not super offensive. So I was a player like... I speculate a little bit when I have to be offensive, when I have to be defensive. So on hard sometimes.
You know, depending on which hardcourt, you have the chance to speculate a little bit. You know, you can play a little bit farther, a little bit more in, and you still can have success. On grass, I feel you don't have that option. And that helps me because I know I didn't. have that option. You like the clarity of it. Exactly. So I know I have to play that way. And I enjoy doing that. And I have to return more aggressive. And I did it. I have to go to the net more times.
And I have to do it. And when the ball is there, I need to go for the winner. So it's no choice because you can't come back from defensive position to offensive positions that quick. This week on Prof G Markets, we speak with Jonathan Cantor, former Assistant Attorney General for the Antitrust Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. We discuss which sectors he believes most need antitrust enforcement.
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The three of you, right? And I'm not going to compare because I hate it when everyone asks to compare. No, I know. I just don't like it. I'm more concerned with like the strategies of it. Right. So. Very simply, one, I know what I think from the outside on the progression of, I don't think any of you would be as good as you ended up being without being pushed by the other two.
Right. So Roger against dummies like me could get away. I couldn't find, I couldn't find this pocket on Roger. I couldn't find his backend up high. I couldn't get away from it. I couldn't create the spin when he would hit that chip. He knew that he could just start over. Right. And then I was working. You come along and the lefty and the spin, all of a sudden he has to get better because for the first time he has to protect this pocket up top. Conversely, that spin mechanism that you create.
Novak all of a sudden is the first person who can knock that down consistently and find the space in the court and either actually maybe hurt you here or find your back in over and over against each of them. What was one thing that we might not think of that you knew that you had to do well and that you had to prevent them from doing? Well, I think having completely...
different approach to the matches. I think with Roger, the match, and that's, in my opinion, that's why the rivalry with Roger was a little bit more, I mean, attractive for the fans. than the Novak against me. And even if I played more times with Novak and we played... He played 60 times. Exactly. And we played exactly the same important matches or even more. Because...
With Roger, I think the strategy was more clear. I was trying to do one thing, he was trying to do the other thing. In some way, I was trying to kill his backend all the time. And even if... For me, even if I had the chance to play the shot down the line, I was saying to myself, OK, when I have to play the shot down the line, it's only for two reasons. One is because I go for the winner. Or the other is because I need to...
to put him away from that side, to create more space again. You hit there to create, then all of a sudden you have the entire court to work with. And he was trying to avoid that. He was trying to play more aggressive. He was trying to... Every time when he was hitting one forehand, I felt that I was in a step back because his forehand for me is the best that I played against.
It's like a little bit more chess match, you know? It's like everybody knows what's going to happen. There are no secrets. Exactly. Everybody knows what the strategy is going to be. And then, of course, when he was playing... Very well. He beat me when I was playing. Well, I beat him at the beginning of my career. I beat him more on clay. Anton Hart had been much more difficult. Then arrived a moment that time.
I was able to beat him on hard a couple of times. And then at the end of his career, I think he made it a step forward. He was playing much, much more aggressive. Off the backhand side, especially on second server turns. 100%. And for me... He was making a little bit mistake against me at the beginning of his career that he was trying to play from his back end again with top screen. So he gave me the chance to...
to keep hitting forehands against his backhand. So he gave me the time. Then, at the end of his career, he started to go in, to take more risk. And he was playing for me, honestly, 2017. for a while was the best level of his career. Really? For me, yes. In terms of creating, you felt that you were in his hands.
You know, of course, on heart, on clay, a little bit different, but on heart, no, this is true. I played on, he was not playing on clay that year. Then he come back on clay a few years later. I don't remember exactly the year, but he played. very very aggressive and his surf was so difficult to read uh for me he served i mean the of course he was very precise but for me
with the Roger serve was very difficult to read because he was able to change. He could hit seven different serves off of the same toss. Exactly. And wasn't predictable. Had a favorite serve, but he could hit the other one. Exactly. For me, it was very difficult to predict what's going on. I'm glad it wasn't just me. That's true. That was so difficult. And against Novak, I think it's a little bit different. I think against Novak was a little bit about, okay.
We can have a strategy, but at the end it's about, I need to play very well. I mean, I need to play very well all the time. And we don't play the same style, of course, but...
It's not a clear strategy that against Roger, I will damage him against his backend, against Novak. I don't have that feeling. The feeling is I need to... to play very well for a long time and know that i had to adjust things now i can't play too many times against his back end uh especially high balls because uh then he takes the the the ball uh quicker and puts you in a in a very difficult position so i start to use the slice more against him sometimes work me well
And sometimes against Novak was good to play to the middle, you know, to don't give him a lot of angles. You know, I think with Novak, when you are able to open him, if you don't really... create a lot of damage. He was able to open you more. I think he's the best of all time at switching directions. Yeah. Like he can, he can take your forehand and fine line or it was, it was safe in terms of control.
Ball control? Yeah. I think he's the best I ever played. And I ever saw. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit before we wrap. We talked a little bit off the top of how much you're doing, how busy you are. I want to... Spend some time talking about the Rafa Nadal Foundation and the impact of serving 10,000 kids. You're in Palma, Valencia, Madrid. How do you juggle all this stuff and how important is it for you to kind of.
take your lessons learned over a lifetime of tennis, pull out what those lessons are, and then find a way to share those lessons at scale with kids? Well, I think people who were lucky. enough like us, that we had a good life, we were able to follow our dreams and to have opportunities to do what we like. I think we have a responsibility to give back. That's the first step. For me, it was clear.
that in some way we need to be positive examples on that, because we can inspire people on helping others. It's not only about what we can do, it's about what we can inspire other people to. to keep doing to create a better world. From our perspective, in my foundation, we strongly believe that sport and education have the power to. to transform realities and to create opportunities. I think we work with kids that we really believe that are the ones that have to...
to have nothing to do if they are in a very bad environment when they are kids. So in some way, we try. to show him another reality. We try to put them in a positive atmosphere with teachers, practicing sport. to give them the possibility to watch another thing that what they are used to to see in their diary bases at home. Honestly, it's one of the things that I'm more proud of in my life because after like over 13 years of foundation, we were able to...
to grow, but to grow the proper way. I mean, to grow not like in a marketing side. To make sure you're still there in 30 years. OK, we are there, we are there, but we are not doing anything. No. to really create an impact on the kids that they have problems. And we keep growing. We have the determination to... to keep creating these safe spaces and these centres that kids go there and forget about their realities.
and in some way we see the results and the results are amazing it's it's funny because you're talking about you know leadership basically and leaving someplace better than when you came along. I was lucky to spend 30 minutes with Carlos Alcaraz, and he was doing some exos in the States, and we just... He was where we live now, and we were hitting golf balls for 30 minutes at In-Town Golf Club. And it was strange for me because...
I saw the kindness that you exuded, but it was through him. And I don't know if it's coincidence. I don't know if that's just the way he was built, but I don't think a lot of things happen by accident. So you see, are you watching much now with Carlos, with Sinner? Are you able to see the way that they've carried themselves? It's kind of in line with a lot of the ways that you exhibited during your career.
Is that something you think about at all? Or is it as simple as be kind? Hopefully, you know, people see it like there are a lot of players. Iga is one of them. Carlos is one of them that say, I want to act like Rafa. Right. He inspired me with the way that he went about it.
I don't know. I think we as rivals, I mean, I think we show the world that we can be the biggest rivals, but at the same time we can be... colleagues i mean i don't say best friends but we can have a good personal relationship you know and i think that shows a positive example to the to the next generations i am proud of that you know uh we grow this with this uh i mean in in some way in some way wild rivalry that we had between roger novak myself
But at the same time, we were able to don't lose the perspective that we are human persons. No, we don't fight against each other. I mean, we respect each other. And it's... i think that helps to these new generations to to understand that you don't need to hate the opponents you know you can uh you can respect you can appreciate the the opponent because at the end they are important part of your lives so and
You don't need to hate opponents to give your best. That's what I think we showed the world. And I think Carlos is a great kid, a great guy with a very good family behind him with positive values. they are humble they are they are good persons you know that's that's true and uh that's why i think carlos uh is is how it is because at the end the values you receive at home the way that you are educated then is the way that that you show up no
And I see the same with Iga. I think Yannick is another good guy, not much show off, focus on what he's doing. Of course, he went through a very, very tough process the last year. and yeah and have been uh yeah it's amazing the way that he he was able to keep being focused on on on what he's doing But I think it's a new generation of great tennis players there, and I think they're going to keep helping this beautiful sport to grow and to engage fans.
On behalf of everyone in tennis, I will speak for all of tennis right now. Thank you for everything that you gave us over the years. Thank you for the memories. Thank you for the respect displayed on everything. I've heard rumors that there's going to be a goodbye at Roland Garros. I don't want you to comment on that. I hope there is, because I hope there's a time where we get to say goodbye to you, that you're also ready to say goodbye to us at scale.
Thank you for joining us on CERB, and thank you for your hospitality down here at Zell Punta Cana. Thank you, Andy, for coming. Cheers. Thank you, my friend. Big pleasure. Cheers. Well, everyone, I hope you enjoyed. That conversation with Rafa, I know I certainly did. Welcome back to Served presented by Picasso. Gentlemen, I've been around Rafa before. Yeah. You haven't. No. Thoughts? He was the nicest. Super champion I've ever met in my entire life. Yeah. Sorry. None taken. The joke.
Was it super champion? Exactly. Yeah. So you beat me to it. I obviously don't think I'm a super champion. It's just the joke. I'll never. I'll never bypass a good joke, but it was cool to see him. I mean, you, you talked about it, right? Like he was just casually having breakfast with his family. Like he, it was a quick trip for him, you know, and he's there with his mom and his dad, you know, and his sister and it's
He was so gracious. And when he got wrapped up, he took a moment and shook hands and gave a hug to every single guy on the crew. Didn't have to do that. And I think it speaks to who he is. the legacy he's left behind on tennis which you guys talked about yeah it was it was fun too and i you know he's been he's been he's not someone who's thirsty to get all of his information out there
You know, what we talk about off air when visiting is great. Then it's, you know, family. And he seems like he's in such a great place. Always has been just a responsible citizen. But he told this story. It was twofold. He was. Talking about, you know, he's like, are you playing at all? He's like, I haven't picked up a racket since I stopped. And he goes, my foot is just so bad. He said, after Davis Cup.
he goes i couldn't really walk for like a month what year was that no that was this that was when he just retired this year he he he had has had a foot injury for a long time and we think foot injury it's like okay you get over it and i'll get to that in one second but He just said after he retired at Davis Cup, he couldn't really walk for about a month. And he said, we were talking about kids and how they're funny and just like two parents. And it's so funny how he can kind of morph between...
14 time Roland Garros winner and dad who has to walk his son down the steps also, right? Like it's just a weird. Kids just normalize everyone, right? It's a common ground that no matter who you are, but he told this story and he was so happy telling it that for a month, he was kind of like sidestepping down the stairs and he would be like, ah, ah.
He's like making all those sounds because his foot hurts. And then I guess he had to go out of town to do something. And he called his wife, Maria. And she was laughing because their son without him there. was sidestepping down the stairs going, Oh, just imitating him. Cause he thoughts that, Oh, that, you know, if, if my dad Rafa, Rafa senior, uh,
Walks down the steps like that. I guess I have to do that all the time. That's just the way you walk down the stairs in pain. So he's talking about his foot and he mentioned it during the interview and how bad it was. You know that he's had a lot of injuries. He plays so physical.
You know, not super surprising. I thought he was going to be done by 27 or 28 years old. If I'm being honest, I'll tell you what I got right. I'll always tell you what I got wrong. His longevity is something that I got extremely wrong. Mike, you saw it. He took a shoe off.
There's a gremlin coming out of his foot. And he kept describing, he kept going like, you know, it's doing this. And like my foot hurts. He's pushing, Mike is, for the audio listeners, he's pushing his fingertips together and they go up like a triangle. Yeah.
It looked like I said it to him. I go, your foot is pregnant. The top of your foot's pregnant. It was just like a ball. It was a little bit smaller than a golf ball just sitting on top of his foot. And he just is casually walking around with it like that. I'm like, bro.
I'd be at home. My wife would be waiting on me. Like I would be like, I can't go anywhere. I can't do anything. It's gross. He's just, he's tough. He's tough. There's, there's something living in there. He thinks it's a, he thinks it's a tennis injury. I think it's like a, I don't know. It's got like a beehive living in there. It's about to explode or something. It was, it was, it was gross. Um, but he had played, uh, he played paddle a couple of days before. Yeah. He said, uh,
He said he first hurt that foot like at the end of 05. Yeah. He's like, oh yeah, 05 was a good year. I won 11 times on tour. I mean. 11 times a tour in one year these these these three and then he's like oh my knees hurt so i didn't play grass for like however many years and then they felt great again and so i started playing again and you're just like yeah
I'm like, how the grass thing, I was interested to hear him say that he thought grass was the second best service. Cause I've kind of been beating that drum for a little bit, but it's so funny how bodies like, On clay, because I don't slide fluently and that's giving myself credit still, everything hurts. Like I get little pulls because I'll slide and then my leg will slip out. So it's all these little like pulls, right? Yeah.
And so you're treating my, not only am I fighting against the movement that I'm fighting against the bring back. So I get my legs got exhausted from all those little movements and kind of, I was fighting against my movement the whole time. I didn't, I never felt anything on grass. Really? Back would be sore because you're bent over the whole time because the bounce is lower. But it's just funny how...
different bodies, different playing styles. Is it hurt his knees because it grabs you more like the option, like it's going to grab you differently than the way Claire hardcore. I can't speak for him, but I'm guessing. On clay, he's still upright. And a lot of the shots he's hitting is like fading away. He's way back in return position. So he's not having to crouch as much. He's laid back. Basically, his body is just more upright more often.
Whereas on grass, he's probably adding another 20 or 30% of bend on every shot, even returning. He's got to be in like that crouch because he's taking it earlier, right? He's not trying to create height. He's trying to create speed through the court. So 20% more kind of.
bend and significance on every shot now it's he's adept and his body's adept at getting out of the corners which is pushing off on one leg but it's not that like as much of a crouch is is what i would be guessing it's just you do it and i know people are like you have to bend your knees on clay that's not what i'm saying i'm saying the movements are are different you're have you live in that crouch but it's like an extreme crouch where you're 20 or 30 percent
more kind of committed to it than you are on clay. But what a legend. Yeah. I tell you what, it makes me want to go after... Just being present for that conversation, it makes me want to go back and watch a ton of his matches. One part that I liked is at one point I was explaining how I had explained to our listeners.
the choices that you have to make against someone like Arafa, right? Where it's like, oh, just hit it to his backhand. It's like, no, I'm trying to survive the next shot. Like that's the last thing. And as I was explaining, like, hey, I had to, you know, you were hitting it up and away to my backhand.
And then when I knew you were really confident, the shot that you hit and he kind of motioned with his hand, he goes slinger. Like he kind of did that little slinger up the line. I'm like, yep, that's the one. Like he knew in real time what I was getting at. It's so funny because you can not speak to each other about tennis.
And then I get halfway into a thought. He knows exactly where it's going to end. That was cool. Definitely go back and watch it. If you guys are listening to the podcast, just go back and watch the full interview. It'll be up on YouTube. I mean, there are subtle hand movements, the entire conversation where you're like... Like, how are these guys like just you guys were on wavelengths when talking about tennis where I'm glad.
you guys ended up describing what you were doing because because it was pretty cool to see it was fun to see it was fun to hear um we had talked that the at dinner the night before just kind of going through I asked the question, what do you guys think is interesting? I know what I think is interesting with Rafa, but what do you all think is interesting? And we got to the part where I go, I don't want to compare careers and say, who's the great, that stuff.
He should, who cares? Like they're, they're all great. Right. You know, whatever. I don't need to make him answer that question for the 77th time, you know, that day. But I go, I do want a little bit of like, I'm going in against these two. What do I have to do? And it was kind of almost exactly what we had talked about. I go, I wonder if he's actually going to say out loud, well, against Roger, he was just going to beat me with his backhand that day. And I was just going to do that.
It was interesting to see. And I thought he was pretty honest about the feedback with what he wanted to do against Novak and Roger and what he had to do and what they did well. And I thought a couple of interesting things he said, the 2017 version. a Roger might've been the best that he faced. Yeah. I'm going, Oh, I don't know. I thought the, what the Oh four or five version was pretty good too. Uh, and then obviously the Novak stuff with the ball control and switching directions. Um,
You know, kind of beating that drum, you know, past just forehand good, backhand good that we hear a lot. Anyways, I appreciate it. I loved it. I can't wait for his doc. His documentary is going to be amazing. Yeah, that's coming out. I don't know why it's coming out. I'm assuming... I mentioned it and I didn't make him confirm it, but I know they're doing, they've mentioned it a little bit. They're going to blow it out at Roland Garros for him. It's going to be.
pageantry for and as it should be to celebrate him and to kind of say goodbye i might have to get a flight over to officially paris to go see that yeah You know, it doesn't look like we're going to get a job. So I might as well just go. I don't know that anyone's going to pay for that flight. I don't know. We'll see. Anyways. Thank you.
for listening to served brought to you by Picasso. Let's tease what we got coming up though. We have Brene Brown on Thursday being released Thursday. We're shooting it on Monday in Austin at the Vox media stage, right? Already have been done. Yeah. So we'll, and then we'll release that on Thursday. We're going to do a bunch of quick serves because I know, I know because we, we took the Rafa episode, which obviously that's what you do when you haven't heard from.
him post-retirement and you get that opportunity. I know we're a little light on Indian Wells, catch up and seeds are losing and the whole thing. I think we'll do a bunch of quick serves this week just to catch up and make sure that we're focused on what's going on currently at Indian Wells. As well. That's about it. What else? That's it. And then we got Indian Wells recap next Tuesday. And then we're right into the Miami Open. Let a rip, Tater Chip. Thanks for listening to Served.
Presented by Picasso.