Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out, indecision, overthinking, second-guessing every choice you make. In, plans and guides that make it easy. to get home projects done out beige on beige on beige in knowing what to do when to do it and who to hire start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. that the president's executive order was named ending illegal discrimination i was like what
Oh my goodness. Thank you for that gift. Why one workplace diversity expert is embracing the change and what it could mean for your job. That's this week on Explain It To Me. New episodes Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. Bye. everyone. Welcome to served. Hope you enjoyed last week's episode with Rafa Nadal and Brene Brown. I certainly had a good time doing them. We have a fun show today. Not with those dummies. Techie Sean and producer Mike got rid of them.
Live in studio, Kim Kleister's Social Sophie. Let's go. What up? Let's go. Finally. This is great. I know, finally. I need some backup. from these knuckleheads because I was traveling around with them doing interviews all over earth. Um, for the last week, I kind of missed out on. The front side of Indian Wells a little bit? The whole tournament? No, I didn't. Stop. Easy. You get a chair and you start having a pain. Come on. No, but I missed out on it a little bit, but it was pretty fun.
Kim, you were working in Indian Wells. What were you up to out there? What did I do? Also, welcome to studio. Thanks. Yeah, this is very serious stuff. Oh, totally serious. I don't like my space in my little corner in the house. Don't worry. In your closet. Yes. What did I do? I did some stuff for the International Tennis Hall of Fame where they announced a letter.
Letters for Greatness for Bob and Mike and Maria Sharapova. What's a letter for greatness? They had a little tent set up and people could... leave video messages for them that they will show during the induction weekend. They have books out where they can leave messages and where people can kind of leave notes to them. And so that was nice. And then we did some like a nice dinner.
to kind of already start celebrating them a little bit. Bob and Mike were there, Maria wasn't there. And then we did some, yeah, we announced, I have to say it correctly, the PIF WTA Maternity Fund Program. from the sovereign Saudi fund. Walk me through that a little bit. So from the WTA side...
Vika Azarenka has been very vocal. She's kind of made it her goal in her career and in life to try to push this through. And yeah, I think the Saudis... PIF came came I think they tried to buy they're big on maternity leave they are yeah I was there a few weeks ago and I'm telling you like it's the opposite of what I expected really yeah the whole team like the women that I met there the team was incredible
um yeah they're they're really like there's a lot of changes happening enjoy the comment section this week sophie um i'm serious like it's i think I was also hesitant a little bit to go. And then, like, when you're there and you experience it and you get to talk to the women that are there and, yeah, see how the changes have been happening and hearing it from them, right, like, was a really cool experience.
They're traveling to a lot of the tournaments. I did a clinic this morning with them. And so they're really trying to kind of do a lot for the sport and for our players, but also to really bring tennis to Saudi. really trying to build a sport up in there whereas like soccer is now their number one sport right like we've all seen yeah you know the big names kind of being being bought to go and play there and um but yeah so now tennis and
We have the end of the year finals, right, we have there, and then we have the next-gen stuff that we support. Do we still not have the... Are we official with the 1,000 going there in February? Or is that still? I don't know. I know nothing about that. I don't either, but I bet anyone five bucks. No? I'll take it. You're on. Great. Can't wait for that. Uh, free money. That's, uh, that's it. Uh, I want to start with, uh, Mira Andreva from, from Indian Wells, because I kept seeing the graphics.
the other 17-year-olds who have played in an Indian Wells final. And I happen to be sitting next to one of them. I was pretty effusive after her run in the Middle East. I don't think she's been a secret to anyone. No one can take credit for predicting that she's going to be really, really, really good. I think that's been baked in for a couple of years now. But it seems like the steps that she's taking, if you miss seeing her in action for a month.
It almost feels like you're going to see a different version of her a month later. I saw her. I didn't know her serve was as big as it was. I watched her three weeks ago. She's able to open up the shoulders on the forehand cross. more so than down the line she uses down the line to kind of play against movement um but she was getting she was getting beat up by sabalenka like sabalenka was getting on the front foot and it felt like okay
You know, maybe there's still room where she has to improve and be a little bit more physical. And she was hitting droppers and slices and she basically just found a way to kind of get into this match. She was up against it. She did exactly zero things better than Sabalenka in the first set and somehow just hung on long enough to turn it around. What's jumping off the screen for you when you're watching her? I mean, especially in that final, I think...
on the backhand side i feel like that shot is so hard to read like she can dictate it so well like she can go down the line she can kind of switch it up to do the cross court like at the at the last second does it look the same to you and then she kind of just yeah yeah yeah which I felt like was at times kind of putting Sabalenka off a little bit or makes it harder to read. I mean, she moves well.
And I agree, like, she also looks stronger than at the start of the year already. You know, like, she looks stronger. And I think, like, just having Conchita, you know, Martinez in her box and just, yeah, having somebody with so much experience and, yes. Really, really fun to watch. Defends really well. She was more of a defensive player, I think, in the beginning when we saw her on tour. And she's really worked to play more aggressive.
And now I feel like the combination is so tough for a lot of players. It's actually so smooth, easy. And yeah, has everything. Can slice, can defend, can attack when needed. The serve has improved so much as well. Like making, you know, she's matured for a 17-year-old, like on the tennis court.
Yeah, very, very impressive. And she's still, you know, she's still a kid when you hear her do the interviews. And it's like you're listening to like a young girl still. I would find my, I agree with everything you said. And I'm trying not to like be one of the media members that. overplays or over talks too much and overhypes someone who is so young but I'm going the forehand's good. She can get shape on it. She can flatten it out. The backhand, it's interesting what you said about.
disguising it i automatically went to what i was saying to rafa where you couldn't tell where his forehand was going at the last second he could like play it against wherever you were at he made you kind of look stupid sometimes yeah um it that's that's really interesting and as you were saying and i'm going
Yeah, it's weird. When she hits winners, it looks like people are kind of like stunned, but it doesn't look like she hits it harder than anyone else. It's almost like she picks the right trajectory, picks the right shot, kind of knocks it down, can play it high. It's strange. It almost reminds me of she serves better, but.
The way Hingis used to play where she would play like against your movement a little bit. It's like she's a step ahead already. And she was like, it feels like the closest comp is like, it's almost a combination of. of you and Hengis, the way she slides and we'll hit that like chip forehand from, from different positions. And I mean, she's, she's as complete as anyone on tour now. I mean, I, you know, obviously you can, I still think.
She's not as physical as like an Iga or a Sabalenka, maybe not as physically imposing yet, but she's kind of gaining on the field quickly. And I don't know if there's like an obvious place. It's not like you can say, Coco's forehand, go attack it. Yeah. You know, it's it's Ega doesn't have a great second serve. There's not much to pick apart right now. Yeah, for sure. And I think she also, you know, you you hardly see her make a bad mistake. Right. Like like it's it's always.
yeah it's smart she plays smart she reads it well like she's never late like she has that early backswing against somebody like Sabalenka or like she's always you know has that like gives herself the time, even though she's playing against somebody who hits the ball so hard and tries to be the one dominating the rallies. And I feel like she... Yeah, she just reads it and adjusts her game. Well, whether it's in the position of the court and she knows when to step in, when to like...
stay a little bit further back and, you know, make our opponent play a couple of extra shots. Like, that's what I tried to do back in the day, right? Like, you back up a little bit and then you try to, you know, slice a couple of shots back and before you know it, you creep into your opponent's heads. They make some more mistakes. Can I ask you guys a quick question about that before you get off of that? Sabalenka said in the post-match.
you know, kind of press in front of all the crowd, you know, she talked about how she wishes she had the team that Mira has at that age, right? That she, it took her a while to find the right people. Can you talk more about, you know, how much of this is? being surrounded by the right people and having the right support system to be able to do this at that age? Yeah. I mean, I guess because she's been so, you know.
such a star in the making for a long time. She's had the sponsors and not everybody has that luxury, right, to at such a young age already kind of pick. you know, somebody like a Conchita Martinez and, you know, a big name like that. Like not a lot of players have the budget to do that. So, but I do think, yeah, I think.
Whether it's the agency that she's with or, you know, there's people making, you know, really smart decisions. And because I doubt that she's already making those decisions for herself. Right. When you're that young, I don't think you do that yet. I assume right now, like, I don't know for sure, but.
I think there's people around her. I think her mom travels with her as well. So I think there's definitely people in her team and it's not just a coach and the physio, but it's like it's the agencies who a lot of times when it comes to making decisions on coaches at that age.
Yeah, we'll come up with a short list or we'll do the conversations and have the conversations for these players and see what's possible. And yeah, I think Conchita to me... what she's done with with muguruza and then now you know with andreva and seeing her like the passion right like that she that you see in the sideline she's not the coach that sits there quietly and tries not to like show the emotions and she's the one that's you know like
as fired up, right? And you see her nervous and you see her like getting, you know, very like animated. I'm glad you brought that up because I want to finish this thought on Andreva and then I want to go to social Sophie for... for the hot gossip and what I missed and what was going on socials while I was flying to Dominican and Austin and all of the things. I kind of liked that.
mirror one the thanking myself thing is like i love it i just can't i love it i can't get enough of it it's like and i'd also like to just thank myself because i actually was out there doing it like there's not i like it someone at 17 like i i like i love that i hope she but i also like something who's like she was cool i hate you guys right now like team like you know it's so like automatic pilot a lot of times i want to thank my my t like
Do you remember? And I thought that was actually a great moment. And the camera angle was, you know, Sabalenka was right behind Andreva on the postgame. And I also think it's a really good look for Sabalenka. when she, she can go crazy. She can throw a racket. She can be very intense. And then it seems like obviously she's upset, but it's almost like she gets the moment. I'm sure you can relate, but I can remember.
the players that were really nice to me when i was like 17 or 18 years old like i remember jonas bjorkman was was was beyond nice and like you know henman was super nice and i remember the players that and then i remember the players that were like like Kind of dicks. Like I remember Kofelnikov was kind of, I like Evgeny now. We get along great.
But like, you know, there was the Rio, all the like there are the guys who were really salty because they were like, you know, it's like you were trying to get a piece of their lunch. But good for Sabalenka. I thought it was a good look. And it's a nice moment. I mean, you remember the people that were like, you know, 17, you're coming in, you're trying to you're making. making the finals of tournaments, semis of majors.
And, you know, some people can just ignore you and you feel it, right? And then they're the ones who are really kind. I thought that was a good look. Monica Salas taught me how to put, and she probably doesn't even remember, in the locker room in Australia. I think it was my first Australian Open. And she's putting like some product in her curls and she's like, oh.
you should use this. Like, come on. Yeah. Like stuff like that. I'll never forget. And she probably doesn't know, but I'll never forget it. I call my, my mom and dad. I'm like, yeah. That's really cool. See, I love that. I thought Sabalenka was great. Something that is already starting to annoy me endlessly is that Andreva gets kind of pissed on the court. Like, I like it.
fired a rifle, the ball into the, in the crowd yesterday, just fired it, which I thought was hilarious. Like I, I, I generally think, you know, petulance, as long as you're self-aware after the fact. um which we'll we'll get to iga in a second but i i think petulance where and they're like oh she's showing she's a teenager you can't in the commentary was like if you want to beat someone like a sabalenka you can't do that stuff i'm like
Sabalenka does that every match. What are you talking about? It's just, it feels like there's this lazy thing where it's like anytime anyone, like I felt like when people who are 26 have gotten pissed before, right? Yeah. I'm like, oh God, it just was like. 42. Who are you talking about? I'm sure I don't know what you mean. Easy with the finger pointing. We got it. We didn't need the finger pointing. We understood. No, but even Sabalenka, like after she lost to Madison.
You know, like she gets killed for like breaking a racket. But it's, yeah. It's so weird. We understand the frustration and the disappointment. But it was just like every two games, well, she'd miss a forehead. It's like, well, she's 17. She's a professional playing in a tournament. She's been the best player on earth over the last three weeks. Like, let's, I don't know. It just, I don't know. At a point I was like, we got it. We know. We fully understand the deal. Sophie, what was dominating?
The inter, the interweb. Well, on the subject of Andreva, I don't know if you saw her little, she was playing a match against Iga and they showed her little burn book. Oh yeah, with the names? Burn book. That was insane. I just loved that. Like, and it really shows.
she's not just a teenager. She has this like really strategic, whatever it said in it. Like she's taking notes, she's studying the game. That was sweet. How cool is like, she's just so cool to me. I thought that was great. So I loved that like one single shot of it flipping through. It was like everyone she had destroyed so far.
she's open about it yeah like on the tennis channel afterwards in the studios like she's talking about like her routine and like that she looks back on all these matches she said like i played her in dubai and then i you know was able to look back on and like just the thought process of like somebody that that age like doing that I think is great and I love that she takes a pen and a paper. Yeah, did you do that?
No. Yeah, I did. Not when I was playing, but when I was younger, like all my matches. We have exactly one other phenom, which you should direct traffic to in this conversation. No, but yeah, it was like we had to do it back in the federation in Belgium. match we had to kind of write down our feelings what we wanted to like work on act like for the next match and so yeah that's so it just makes you think yeah wait so after a match you'd have to like they like make you do like a post match
Like report card. Well, the next day we would have to kind of show them. So we, we didn't have to do it right after the match, but we could do it at night. Like in, we would stay with like families. How do you call it? Did you say, were you host families? Yeah, host families.
And so we would just like fill it out. Oh my God. I would have been like, the whole reason I'm trying to get good at tennis is to not do homework, folks. But everything was like, what are you doing? I thought this was a different path. No, I like that kind of homework. Yeah, that's like good general practice. I like that. What else? Sorry. Go ahead. Everything I wrote was like.
I felt that I was hitting my back end good. I felt I was hitting my forehand. Like, everything was my feeling. Like, it was no stats. Like, it was all about how I felt. Like, my ball toss felt a little low. Like, it was all, like, that's how I wrote. Do you still have them? I do have them. Do you really? We should dive in. Post them. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. Send me some screenshots. Anybody fun at Indian Wells? Was there any like? Bob Dylan was there.
No, he wasn't. No, he wasn't. Timothee Chalamet was there. Oh, Sandler? Chalamet! Chalamet! Chalamet! That's cool. Not as Bob Dylan. He and Kylie Jenner were there. Oh. Who's there? In the box. Kylie Jenner, both Jenner sisters, actually. No hate to Kendall. She was also there. Yeah, did you guys see the shot where he, I think they were at a Holger-Bruna match, and Timothy's, like, standing up like this and, like, full baseball dad.
And he's like, that was a bad miss. No. It was a bad miss. You can like read his lips. Come on. Yeah, he was going, that was a bad miss. Shut up, Chalamet. Oh, I loved it. You did it? You liked it? Yeah. But he's judging. He wasn't like on a mic, you know. Was he projecting?
I think a tennis movie is his next stop. I think it's going to be a tennis movie. I mean, yeah, last year it was Zendaya. Because he really was. I was surprised they're in such close proximity to LA. I was expecting like a ton of celebrities there. But they really were the only. Really?
two that I, what's it called? The Desert Slam was like packed with celebrities. Yeah, Macaulay's thing. Yeah, but actual, the matches themselves, he was really the only one and Kendall Jenner or Kylie Jenner were the only ones that I saw there. Yeah. I didn't miss much. Not super sorry. Like last year. Yeah. Love him. Timmy. I love it. Uh, all right. Can we talk about, go ahead, Mike.
I was going to say, just how about Alcaraz reuniting with the beekeeper? That was amazing. I love that. And then the bees in the audience. There was a bunch of guys dressed as bees in the audience. It was amazing. The two documentaries that I want to do in my lifetime is Kim Kleister's and The Beekeeper. Those are the two that I want to be a part of in my life. His would be more like a rock and roll doc. It would just be epic. It's just a bunch of...
like memes, but for two and a half hours from, from the beekeeper. Okay. Can we, can we, I don't want to spend too much time on this, but it, it, it kind of is a story and she just released this novel of an explanation. on on the way over can we uh can we go to break first fine we're going to break so i'll tell you like i'll tell you a story this week on unexplainable
A story about researchers building AIs. And the system says, well, this is a great view. This is awesome. And I was like, oh crap. Researchers who watch their experiments go... Horribly wrong. Wait a second. Like, what's even going on here? Only to realize the answer has been staring at them in the mirror. Humans are just suckers for anything that looks human.
Good Robot, a four-part series on the stories we tell about AI from Julia Longoria and Unexplainable. And if you want more new episodes of the show, follow Unexplainable wherever you listen. I'm Josh Muccio, host of The Pitch, where startup founders raise millions and listeners can invest. For Lucky Season 13, we looked at 2,000 companies and selected 12 of the very best founders to pitch in Miami. They flew in from all over the country and the world. My name is Mikele.
And I'm from Italy. I'm originally from Medellin, Colombia. I was born and raised in Maysville, Kentucky. I'm from Baltimore, Maryland. And I am from Finland. This season, we're diving even deeper into the human side of venture. As these founders... I do want to push back, though. Toughen up there, lady. That's healthcare. I feel like I'm the lone dissenter.
Ooh, Charles, spicy. So I'm out. I'm sure when they air this episode, they'll be like, Charles was really dumb. For those who can't see, my jaw is currently on the floor. Season 13 of The Pitch is out now. Episodes are available to watch on YouTube or listen on your podcast player of choice. So subscribe to The Pitch right now.
It's not like TV where we wait for commercials. It literally just takes 15 seconds and then we come back on. It's just in case anyone wants to be a sponsor ever. We're available. Jada got her driver's license. She did. last Thursday and she just ripped it. Haven't seen her since. I haven't seen her. She's like, I've been telling her to like clean her room and like clean clothes are like out there. I'm like, Jada, like you got to clean your room.
She's like, mom, but I'm going to take my friends and I want to go and get a pedicure. And I still have to get my prom dress. And it's like a whole bunch of stuff. And yeah, so she's enjoying her freedom. Are you anxious? I've said.
I've texted, like, be careful. Like, a lot of that stuff. Please be careful. Please, like... Are you going to use this? Like, is she going to be driving your other children around now? Yes, I will. Yeah, of course. That's, like, that's the trade-off. And now, like, AU basketball is starting, so she can...
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, you just got some life back. Yes. Yeah. You have long ways to go, right? Long ways to go. But it's weird. Like you feel really old all of a sudden when you sit next to your kid that's driving. It feels very weird. I don't know. I'm not mentally prepared. Same. Same. Just hits you then. I just see how my kid drives like one of the little like, you know, ride on toys and it makes me even more horrified because there's not a tree or wall that she hasn't hit. Yeah, this is.
I can't. I'm happy for you if you're happy for you, and I can't even think about it much further. Self-driving cars. Imagine our daughter Stevie. Driving? No, and it's not that far away. That's a problem. It's not terribly far. It's not the one. I'm not ready. Okay, anyways, let's move on to Draper. Let's move on to Draper. He drilled a lot of really good players. Like, he... Sophie's into him. No? Can't confirm.
I'm into him. He's very talented. No, I was like RPMs on the forehand composure. I think he just won. Is his forehand better than Berrettini's for you? His forehand.
Is this forehand better than Barrettini's? I don't know. I know they were both out of the match. Sorry, no, repeat the question a couple more times while you think of your answer. Go ahead. Just keep repeating it while you think, while you get some time. No, my point was that it sounded kind of like an innuendo. I wasn't trying to think of the answer. Only to you. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Geez. I thought you were, like, for a second she was visualizing both forehands, trying to, like, read which ones. No. You're not there yet. You're not there yet. Yeah, but he was the runner-up of my hottie bracket. Oh, sorry. So the innuendo would have been well placed. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Who was the runner up?
Draper. Draper's the runner-up. He was my runner-up. Mateo's still there for you, or is it someone else? No, always. Always. Like, he's a constant. Okay. Constant. Well, Draper also played well. Right, I heard. Drilled. Drilled Runa. Flipping years and years of conversations on their head. Sophie just going after him. I'm sweating.
Runa, 2-2. Alcarez, 6-1-0, 6-6-4. Shelton, I think it was like 4-5. Fritz was 5-3. Brooksby was 5-4. Fonseca, I think, was 4-0. First round also. That's not an easy draw for him to get through. Two things that, I hate to say criticisms because it's more just an observation of what people can get better at. His fitness, I think, up until even eight months ago, nine months ago, was suspect. There were a lot of...
Injuries, there were points in matches, even the U.S. Open where he, I mean, he vomited and then he vomited. And the back end was okay. And it was a place where you could get out of jail, right? And this is coming from someone who was back in you could get out of jail on. He now doesn't really hit a line, but he now takes rips to the biggest parts of the court where at least you kind of have to take a step back. And if you leave that one hanging, then.
He's turning it. The RPMs he's getting on his forehand. I mean, it wasn't, we think of like, okay, lefty, he can come in. He stands way back in Rafa territory to return. And he is creating so much height on his forehand. It's not this flat thing. He either goes massive toppy Magoo or he kind of sends it full through the court. But he was winning a Masters 1000 final 2-2 against someone who's...
I mean, Runo's been playing. He played well this week. I mean, what were your takeaways when watching Draper? Kim, not Sophie. Sophie, we got where her head's at. Bone structure, insane. Yeah, okay. Thank you. I love watching him play. I also feel like the surf is really suited. It did. Yeah. I felt like a little bit more than maybe Rune. But yeah, that forehand really popped on. On that surface. I think the one, and I'm curious, I think the return that I hated the most.
was when you got up against one of these lefties and they could throw in this nasty kick out to your forehand. To the forehand? To me? It was my backhand. No. He's like up here. Backhand didn't bother me because I didn't take a swing so I could just try to knock it down and live to fight another day.
But I think of the Wayne Arthurs or these guys who would just flip it, that slow little one that would tumble that way. Runa, he hit three to Runa in the first two games, and Runa was close. Because you kind of have to shade. backhand to protect the one that you're talking about his his kind of ability to pitch a good ball game on the second serve i mean he won i think i think he broke 50 on second serve points one against alcaraz on that surface where alcaraz can drift back and create
spin and speed. I mean, he was defending that and kind of pitching a good ballgame. But what would you prefer? Would you prefer to stand back a little bit further and hit the forehand there or would you try to keep it... Against Draper? Yeah. Against the Wayne Arthurs, like you mentioned. Well, Arthurs would have been coming in, so that would have been a different scenario. Against Draper, I don't know that I, on the deuce side for sure, I think I have to go back.
because i think even if he gets me on that forehand side at least i can try to create some space And then what's your goal with the return? Is it like, are you looking for depth? Are you trying to go straight to the middle? Are you looking for angles? On the backhand side, I would have wanted to hit it like flat, like barely over the net to where at least he's having to hit up for me. And it's not up above his waist level where he's...
He's bullying me at all. The forehand, I would try to hit that really high, deep one to his back end. Even if he gets a forehand, hopefully he's not set in ripping. And then the next ball, I would try to somehow chip it inside out and find his backhand side somewhere somehow. But his forehand, once he got control of it, I'm not saying he's Rafa when he gets a forehand.
The association was similar when it was a sitting ball and he had a slow one. It was really, really, really difficult for these guys to wrestle control back, right? If he got one sitting in the middle, he was just creating such... It was so heavy and hitting it both ways to where even like a Taylor Fritz was having a hard time stepping in and like reestablishing himself.
In the rallies. And you're saying that he didn't have that before? A while ago? I don't remember his forehand. I remember it being flat and kind of like it was imposing, but he would miss a bunch. And I feel like now he's able to play aggressive.
without having to ramp up the irresponsibility of when he's going for it. And I'll be curious to see, obviously on grass, is that heavy ball going to work? I don't know. On faster hard courts, is that heavy ball going to work? I don't know. But to your point, that... product market fit with that Indian Wells court where it's gritty. And he was able to create those RPMs up and away. I mean, he was just, I mean.
Runa looked like it's, you know, when you're in juniors and you're kind of bigger and stronger than someone, you overpower them. The first three games, it was like, Runa didn't do anything really wrong. And he just got the racket taken out of his hands. I thought it was pretty impressive in the leftiness and when he was serving. The fitness and the backhand were average or maybe below tour average within the last 16 to 18 months.
The US Open was really good for him, but then he had to pay the bill with humidity and the center of things. But he has the ability to roll people now. It used to be he's going to hold a lot, he has a really good serve, but he's putting up... like Kim Clijster's numbers on people where it's like two and two, you know, four and O against Fonseca who, oh, by the way, went and won a 175 challenger right after he lost to Draper, which I think is also impressive. But that's where I love like, like,
I think our tennis brains, like we would, I would love to know like what triggered that? Like what made, was it him that realized like, okay, against these guys, like I want to be able to hit the ball heavy. I feel like I'm always kind of on the back foot.
I don't have the strength to do it. And so is it his coach? Like that, those are the conversations that I would love to, or be on court and listen to their coaches talk. And like when that process started, when they started to change. One of the things that I think is really interesting is. If your fitness and your movement is okay and you're not super confident in it, you are less likely to bully and have something that takes three or four shots, right?
I think his forehand is now set up by the fact that he can actually play that little jab back in defensively. So even if he's out of position or someone pulls him there, he can play that heavy one and not be scared to play defense on the next ball. So all of those things, to your point, there's like a waterfall effect where your backhand gets better, you're half a step faster, you can all of a sudden play defense on the backhand side, and if you have a ball that you can step in on, you can...
you know, you're not hitting winners, but you're driving it middle or you're driving a cross court. You can at least pin the person. All of those things allow you to do different things on the court, right? The more you improve one subset of skill.
the more options you have as far as strategy. And it seems like he's improved all of these things, the back end, the fitness, the second serve, when to serve, how to serve. If someone's standing in like Fritz, you're going to kick it into his body on the left-hand side. If someone's going back.
kick them off the court, create space. All of those little things mixed together. And then the confidence builds. Correct. And then all of a sudden you're staring down the barrel of a two and two win in a Masters 1000. But I don't think it's just like he decides to hit his forehead. I mean, I'm sure he gets to Indian Wells and goes, oh, this thing is.
hopping like this is i'm sure he was in practice he's going this is this is a this is a problem for zhao fonseca first round this is not going to be uh not going to be great um you have anything to add sophie what do you think Own structure? Great stuff. Insane. I do want to ask you guys about Carlos. You know, he kind of said that he was feeling off.
like while warming up, you know, that he was feeling the nerves, you know, they're three, two head to head, but they've split the last four, but kind of talk through, you know, when a player's feeling that, you know, pre-match. You know, what's that like, especially in a three-setter? Did you ever not feel that? No.
Yeah. I always felt it. Always felt it. Like I felt like I was borderline vomit before pretty much every match. Yeah. Maybe some a little more than others, but depending on the stage of the tournament or, but yeah, always nervous. I'll tell you though, I, I've, I would usually feel, and maybe I'm the opposite, but.
my most nervous moments would be when I was trying to find something first round, second round. If I wasn't playing real well, by the time I got to the semis, obviously the consequences way more, but you, you might.
shift your worry to that but i'm curious like once i was in the semis or a final i might lose because maybe someone's better and they're also feeling those things but i wasn't like super nervous about the product i was going to put out there right i didn't feel like i was going to play well third round round to 16 quarters and then all of a sudden lay an egg in the semis were you that way or did you kind of feel like when you had it it was there um
i don't know no i didn't always feel like that i think i was always a little bit maybe it was also my superstitiousness that i did where i didn't want to think that i became like that i was better than my opponents you know like i never wanted to think What? What did you say? I didn't feel that. I just felt like I wasn't going to completely. Like Lindsay Davenport has sat here and go, yeah, I would play a tournament. I would go into a semis and I felt like I might not win a game.
Like imagine her and how good she was. And she's like, I honestly went out there. It was like, I hope I get a game. Yeah. But I would see my opponents like warm up and I'd be like, Oh my God, they hit the ball so hard. Like, how am I going to be able to do that? And then like.
I would start the warmup. I was like, okay, like I got, you know, the five minutes. I'm like, yeah, okay, I can do this. Like take the racket back a little earlier. I can do this tennis thing that I'm number one at. Yeah, but it's. But it helped me to stay sharp, you know, like not take anything for granted or anybody.
just stay very focused i did sometimes get nervous if had a bad warm-up or if really a little bit yeah that's funny like i my in i was nervous all the time but it was about executing a game plan being ready to like will this work can i execute can i do it not But also, I have another question. If you're in Alcaraz's camp, how honest is too honest? He has this cloak of people are ready. He's four slams. He's 21.
Do you want people to know that you're kind of have this maybe sometimes mental insecurity? I appreciate it as someone who's consuming the game as a fan because I think it makes it relatable. I think he's more endearing. for having shared it. But if you're in his camper, you go on, don't tell people that. They think you're invincible. I felt like that a little bit for a while, like even on the women's side, where Naomi Osaka came out and started talking about some of her mental issues.
To a certain degree, it's great to share your feelings and your thoughts with fans. But there's also a lot of, like, you draw a lot more attention to it and negative energy to it. And all the media wants to know more about it because you open a door to things. And I feel like in our time, you know, we just...
I would talk to my coach about like, oh, I'm not feeling this. I'm not feeling good about this. But we never really openly communicated about, oh, I'm playing with so much doubt out there. And I'm not feeling like we never really did that, I feel like. I was really good at lying to myself. And my team. Forgetting the bad stuff that happened. You just forget about it really quickly. You were a little nervous in the first game.
I fucking wasn't. No, I wasn't. I couldn't hide my nerves. It's like you were nervous in the first four games. That's true. I could see you sitting there all nervous. That's true. There's nothing more annoying than seeing a coach that's nervous. Yeah. Draper said that he could sense that Carlos was flat in that first game. Could you guys feel what the other player was feeling?
Like, would you ramp up what you were planning on doing game plan earlier if you could sense that? Because it's so unique being mano a mano. I, if I'm playing someone like the level of Alcaraz, even if they come out, even if they come out.
flat or you can tell the energy is not there and you can normally tell i mean maybe some some days and conversely you could feel it the other way but holy shit this is gonna suck like this person's this person's ramped up but i kind of i never operated from a place of oh this is just the way it's gonna be today
I would think about it like, I need to break. I need to do all of these things before he finds his footing. To me, even though it wasn't always the case, I felt like it was a certainty that someone was going to find it. at some point in the match. And then it was like that little 10 or 12 minute hold them off, which Sabalenka didn't do against Andreva. But I don't know. Could you, could you, did you sense it or were you kind of focused on just what?
what you were doing. I don't think I sensed it enough. I probably, when I started doing a little bit more commentary where you sit behind the court and you can see their facial expressions or when they turn their backs, like there's a lot of things that you don't pick up on. But I remember when I was, when I was younger and I. playing Serena and stuff like after a long rally and we had to change ends or we had during tie breaks or during you know switching like going to the changeover.
I would like hold my breath because I didn't want her to think that I was out of breath. Come on. I would be like. I'd just walk and I'd be like. Really? Because I didn't want to be like. So out of breath from this long rally that we just played. that's funny yeah i just didn't want to show any like i don't know because i do feel like like when i heard my opponents be like like you know during the changeovers i was like okay like she's tired like she's she's feeling it
That's awesome. Yeah. Gosh, I would just be trying to figure out a way to like get proximity. I'm like, God, if I can just get Kim to hold her breath for like five minutes straight, can we just, then she actually will be tired.
from from one of the israelis that that's that's really interesting um i want to get to we we we teased the the ego balkid drama thing um before we took that wonderful break but then we got sidetracked because jada has a driver's license uh we're gonna get to that at some point but i kind of just want your thoughts i'll i'll throw out some names just kind of where they're at i i think it's pretty interesting right now um
You know, Sabalenka has lost two big finals for the first time in a long time. right? Iga, same with semifinals where they're playing well, but then they're not used, like, especially Iga, like, when she gets to the finals, she rarely loses, right? So they're getting stopped a couple times earlier. They're still playing great. They're still, you know, the best couple players in the world, obviously.
but is do you need that reset sometimes where it's like okay i have to progress or is this you know potentially damaging did it did it get in your head at all if you kind of were used to make basically it's like win or bust at their level Cause for concern or no? I mean, I think it's all, it's all on like the focus that you put on it. I think there's a big difference. I think between the two, if you see a Sabalenka and an Iga, I feel like with Iga, it's like.
Every tournament is like, okay, I have to win this. I feel like with Sabalenka, she believes it. I think beating Madison in the semis was already, you know, kind of she felt like she was able to take revenge a little bit.
um but with Iga I feel like it's such a must and and and you feel it in her tent like in their attention like when she's walking out there and and seeing her you know in Indian Wells like in the players area like there's like a yeah tension that is very very um not even gonna say tight but it's like there's yeah not a lot of room for anything else than tennis yeah um which can at times when things don't go your way you know yeah as someone who runs
pretty high strung like i i see the way that she kind of goes about it and and it's it's interesting and i think there's this this world in in sports and probably just life really I think our biggest strengths can sometimes also become our biggest weaknesses simultaneously. I've talked about Iga's discipline. I never think for a second she's going to wake up and give kind of an... average, not thoughtful attempt at a day, right? To the point where maybe it's like, okay, maybe just go to dinner.
you know have some shits and giggles for for like two hours right yeah so it's like that with her but her biggest strength is this thing and now it's like you you right you can run too hot so it's like this tightrope walk and justine was a little bit like that back in oh really i think like where you know it was tennis tennis and
um yeah and she reminds me a little bit of justine too when she's out there playing like i feel like style wise or just personality yeah i think personality wise the focus like the look at times like there's i see some similarities oh that's interesting yeah Maybe it's with the hat. But yeah, you feel the tension there. And the longer you have that in your system, I feel like it's going to become...
It can turn into something negative, right? If you win and it's great, you can relax a little bit when you win. But if you lose or she hasn't won a big title, then that tension builds up.
and like you're constantly looking it's like okay the next week I gotta do it this week I gotta do it and it doesn't happen okay I gotta let's go we gotta work harder we gotta it's it's I don't think she'll take a break from tennis because she needs to kind of relax a little bit like I don't think she's that kind of
Yeah, I was giving her credit last fall for pulling out of events and kind of having a long view. And I now know it was because of the positive test for which she's been cleared completely and totally.
since then but um she so if you run us through real quick like the the for those audio listeners like she angrily hit a ball and it almost hit a ball kit right is that kind of the during her lazy version of it against andreva she the ball kid was feeding her balls she one that he fed to her she slammed down towards her box or what it looked like different angles some say like she slammed it towards him some people say no she was angry slamming it
towards her box. The ball kid did flinch. Also, sometimes you just slam it. Like there's, you don't aim it. You just kind of. Which I don't think she necessarily was aiming it, but like there was a person in front of her kind of to her left. He flinched.
And then for a while, people were saying like it was a pretty 50-50 split of like players do this. They get frustrated. She slammed it towards her box out of frustration during this match with Andreva. Some people were saying she hit it towards this kid. She should have known better. Like it was pretty.
a 50-50 split until today. She released this sort of like 10-slide explanation apology on Instagram that gave... both more insight into the incident and also like kind of left a lot of questions of like okay yeah you you apologize the first slide was her saying I'm not proud of this she also said I wasn't expecting this sort of negative reaction towards what
And then she kind of went into what she's been dealing with the past few months with her doping ban and it all sort of tied together into what to me read like, yes, I'm sorry, but also I've been going through a lot.
therefore you should forgive me um am i kim am i am i oversimplifying this where we all do petulance maybe not you but the rest of us do petulant stuff on the court where we like where we like where we like break stuff we do stuff that's it would it have been as easy for ega instead of this 10 page explanation where now you're you're re-inviting the conversation about the doping ban back in or and or qualifying
behavior that it was like, okay, you smacked a ball. You almost hit a ball. Cause you got lucky. You didn't. And it's petulant behavior, right? Like, it's just like, I, I, I, I lived in it, but also I also knew that if I went in there and they go, you know, Andy. you acted like a brat. And I go, you know what? You're right. I acted like a brat and probably won't be the last time, but I'm working on it. That's the end of the conversation, right? I think like this 10, to Sophie's point.
She was, I was writing the show on the way over and she was kind of reading it, you know, out loud, at least the highlights. And I had six more questions after I read it. And now I'm more curious as a, before I was like, all right, everyone calm down. Iga, I would have said, hey, to the ball kid, can someone find that ball kid? Can I apologize in person? Give him a racket, sign it. He's good with me. Hopefully the rest of y'all are too. I fucked up today. That's it. It's over.
I mean, now it's... Yeah, I have a lot of questions. I didn't read the statement, so I definitely want to wonder where that's all coming from. It was basically like you've made mistakes too. You're overreacting. I can't make mistakes when I don't. do this stuff you call me you call me robotic you hitting your racket or you know like hitting that on the ground or or something like that whereas like when the ball girl or ball boy like throws the ball at you it made it look like oh you didn't
Like, you know, players get like that. Like, oh, you didn't throw it right where I need it to be. Or like some players get like that. And to me, that is a little bit like these ball kids. they're helping, they're helping you, right? Like they're, yeah. Don't work it out on the kids. Like volunteer kids. Yeah, that to me, like slam your racket if you're mad. Go to your bench when you, like during a changeover, like, you know, yeah. The bulkheads, I feel like. They need to be left alone.
I think what bothers me about it, right? And like, this is a paraphrase here, but she's like, you know, like you guys said, I'm called a robot. My attitude labeled as inhuman. Now that I'm more expressive, showing feelings or struggling internally, I'm suddenly labeled immature. That's not what it is. It's not the same thing. Yeah. And I'm, I listen, I don't, we've been, Kim and I both, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but I've been a pretty big defender when the.
The doping ban came out. I'm like, listen, it's melatonin, folks. And it was, you know, on the way from Paris, you know, listen, I don't view her as a cheater based on what came out. So I've been a defender. So I can simultaneously think that and say. There's almost too much thought being put into this. My bad. I fucked up. I understand why everyone's upset. Let's get past it. But I do think we can say, okay, like that melatonin thing, but a lot of people.
still see it as like she tested and i think that does kind of leave a little bit of a yeah in your system right like wherever you go like maybe women are a little bit more um prone to maybe like worrying about that or or like thinking about what are the people thinking of me or what are they you know are they do they see me as a doping can serena hear me breathing on those do they think um yeah i'm really like taking
Did I take doping? And that's another stress to your system, right? That you don't need. And so the fact that she brings that up in a message for, you know, hitting a ball, I mean, means that it's pretty deep.
like an issue that that is deeper than maybe what we're thinking right yeah i think it could have been that she could have released a message like that i've been really struggling for the last x amount of months totally separate from why did i have to wait until this incident happened it just kind of felt like a bid for sympathy
when they could have been, they're two totally separate stories. That can totally be true. And I'm sure it is true. She's really struggling. That had to be really tough and is probably still really tough. And also this totally separate incident happened and needs to be a separate apology. but it just shows to me like that she does take a lot of the comments or the yeah oh yeah very very it goes deep it runs did you did you
Did you pay attention? I mean, I guess it was different because the social media wasn't like crazy. But I didn't like, some journalists were like, you acted like an asshat. And I'm like, yeah, you are an asshat. And then that was that. And we both went home and I didn't really think about it again. But is that like...
I mean, people used to ask me, like, do you think you're too nice to win a Grand Slam? I was like, you should hear what goes on in my head. You don't know what I'm thinking about you right now. So, but like, when you hear that over and over again, like after a while, like I was like, can I do it? You know, like.
So you do think she, I mean, she's brought in like to it's, it's interesting. Cause they're not the same. They're not the same circumstances. Right. But Carlos will get asked more about feeling strange because of how honest he was. an ego will be asked more about this incident. And she then almost like re-invited the conversation for the last six months by spending 10 pages on it. And that's maybe unfair, but...
I don't know. Like, I would just be like, hey, I think less is more here. Just own it and kind of be done with it. But, I mean. Kim, a question. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go. No, no. Go. A question I asked Andy on the way over here. Like, when I look at these.
social media apologies like my social media brain goes like okay well how would i have edited that or how would i have done that differently and like are these players hiring pr like did she do you think she ran that apology by anyone and was like hey do you think this is gonna read well on social media
Obviously, all of your apologies should be genuine, but I feel like if I were her, I would have run that by someone to be like, hey, is this going to read the way that I'm intending it to? And to me, it just kind of didn't. Like, do you have someone who's reading your stuff? Like, I would love to rewrite that apology and send it back out. I'm from the dinosaur age. I didn't have to worry about releasing a post or, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. I mean, I think you should, right? I never did. But it seems like your stance is like, yeah, own it. If someone says you did this wrong, you're like, yeah, I did this wrong. I wasn't going to be saying anything. I've had this conversation before with team sport athletes where I would have probably been a lot less outspoken about anything if my teammates would have had to answer for my commentary.
If I was the quarterback of a team and I say something that's a little opinionated, it would have literally caused me so much stress that the person blocking for me all of a sudden has to... you know right answer to my stupid comments but i don't know if i was happy with like the inflow but i was never actually surprised if i said something then i if i said something
And I normally knew whether it was going to be a polarizing subject or not. If I said something, I wouldn't act shocked when people responded to it. Like, I think that's a weird thing to say. I want to be honest. I want to say all this stuff. But then also, I'd like not to be asked about it in the future. Like, I don't know that those live. The give and take is a give and take that I think sometimes as athletes.
you're like, okay, I want to say everything I want to say, but I also don't want to answer questions about what I have to say, which is, I don't think that's realistic. A couple other names that I want to hear your thoughts on, Kim. Kind of checking in with Coco. A lot of our listeners, obviously, she's very popular. I think at the end of last year, with her run post-US Open finals, it's like, okay, she's going to be off and running this year.
hasn't quite happened, right? It's kind of the stop and start thing where every time we're concerned, it seems she wins something big. And then every time we're positive that the next step is here.
you know, there's a month where maybe she loses to some players that she wouldn't, you know, want to lose to. Yeah, I mean, for sure. But it's also, I feel like it's a phase, right? Like we're... we've all had to go through like the expectations of you know beating all these players that you're supposed to beat on paper and that's a lot easier said than done like you know we know that right like it's but she should and and so where is like what's
What's causing that? Like, is it a little bit mentally, the pressure that she feels of, you know, competing and being, you know, in the semifinals at all these tournaments? Yeah, it's tough. Like it's, you know, I feel like her tennis is not, I mean, okay, the serve, you know, at times was a little bit off, but yeah, she.
tennis is such a confidence game and when you drop a little bit anybody now I feel like in women's tennis can really make it hard for you and I feel like she's there like there's a fine line between
Her like being confident and playing well. And then, yeah, just dropping that level a little bit. What's the biggest difference with her when she's in full flight and playing well versus when she's kind of... in that grindy and i also say like she is really really good at playing average tennis and still winning like she's she's really good at that and i i don't i don't underrate that skill at all but what's the biggest difference uh from where you sit
to when she's kind of in full flight and when she's kind of just, you know, you feel like she's trying to find it. Yeah. To me, it's confidence. Like when she, you know, when she wins the US Open, like she had moments where maybe her surf wasn't how she would want it to be, but she wouldn't feed that.
those thoughts whereas now i felt like you know just from on tv a little bit you could see like you know like whether it's little signs of like body language like the drop of the head or like the the shoulders or like it's those kind of little things that i just noticed that art showing a little bit more recently. But that's also, it comes again with, you know, maybe not having won or not having had the results that you would want. And the confidence is not quite as...
where she wants it to be. And I feel like when she won the U.S. Open, it's like she could hit double folds and hit an ace right after. And still play a quality point. Yeah, and still, you know, her... movement and her defensive skills are amazing and will make her win a lot of matches, which is what she can rely on a lot. But you have to win these big tournaments against the best players. You know, everything has to be won. For me, the biggest tell with anyone with...
confidence at a certain level and we're talking about someone who's three in the world and we're talking about what she's not doing so like let's just level set real quick like the the floor for her seems to be like three or four in the world right so that's you're a victim of your own shadow a little bit at that point but the biggest tell for me is is depth right when she gets a little bit tight a little bit nervous that ball just
starts landing on the forehand both but we we obsess over the forehand the back end's a better shot so let's just that's just the way it is we shouldn't compare the two i don't think but even the back end when she's playing well you know people are picking up but it's landing three feet in front of the baseline and so
Again, what that does is like, oh, you know, Coco's forehand is struggling, but if the depth isn't there, then all of a sudden she's playing defense on a forehand where the ball's getting on her very quickly. Whereas if she's actually finding an extra, you know, three, four, five feet of depth.
then she can manage the forehand, right? She has a little bit more time. The person's not, you know, four feet inside the court. It's not as easy to run traffic through there. But for me, it just seems like when she's free and the ball is, even when she, the forehand. is kind of the high loopy situation, that's fine if you're getting the right amount of depth on it, especially when she has the defensive skills.
uh that we're talking about and a lot of girls also don't like that variety correct yeah yeah for me it's just depth because then it allows her if she if she's if she's finding the depth on her shots it makes it really hard to attack her. So for you then, where does that come from? Is that nerves? Is that just being a little bit tight where the arm just not flowing? Yeah, I had a hard time creating...
I could create a flat ball when I was tight, like that middle ball where you're not actually going after it. Like you could hit rally balls all day. I had a hard time. Like I would almost chicken wing it when I was.
when I was getting a little nervous. Like I had a hard time where my backhand was my worst shot. It wasn't good, but I didn't have a hard time finding depth on it when I was tight because it's a flatter trajectory. It would kind of go through the court. If I missed it, it would kind of stay low. The forehand was a tell. And I talked to Rafa about it last week. His tell, he was good enough to where he could leave the ball short and he could still make your life.
you know a complete pain in the ass for three hours but for him when he was opening up the shoulders and could all of a sudden it said you had no chance like there was no there was nowhere to go but that seems to be the tell uh for me really quickly alex verev
center out of the way, two in the world, has a path to number one. People say he has a path just because it's mathematically possible. That doesn't mean it's a realistic conversation at this point. So those two are few and far between, but I got to a point in my career. where it was slam or bust, right? The little minute, and off of the heels of the Aussie Open where it's like, he plays great for two weeks, makes a grand slam final, right? Of all the people on earth.
Avengers assembled in Melbourne and you came up second, right? That's an unbelievable accomplishment. And also now the narrative forever until if and when he breaks the slam thing is, yeah, but. You didn't do, you didn't do this thing. Do we think that there's a hangover effect each time that he gets close and it doesn't work out for him? For sure. I think so. Is he in a place where obviously we talk about.
needs time, needs to sink back on that forehand side. And against 99% of Earth, that's the most effective version of his forehand. And now I almost see like the last three or four weeks post Australia when, you know, all of us dummies keep harping on it because it is true against the best players. If you leave it hanging, you're going to lose control or the upper hand of the rally. And there's only, you know.
a handful of people that can expose him on earth right now, but he has to fix that thing in order to get to the thing that he needs. He's kind of caught, and I was in this mode for a while where I...
100% of my focus was adjusting my game to try to beat Roger. And then all of a sudden I found myself the first part of 2006 where I was losing to a bunch of people who weren't Roger, right? Because my focus was there. I sense a lot of that with him where I think he's taking pot shots on his forehand side now.
where it's like, oh, that's not what you want to do. I feel like that's for the chorus. Yeah, it's not your nature, but... Does he have to go through that? Yeah, I think it's... You think it's a necessary process. I was talking about Andre, but he said the same thing. Yeah. You don't think so? I don't know. Because it hasn't worked like...
I mean, he's done great. That's not what I'm saying, but it hasn't worked against those few players that he will have to beat if he wants to win. Pragmatically, I agree with you. I'm just thinking about feelings. Do you have to take time off and actually readjust? technical parts can he just take what he has now and go go in and hit it harder i think i think he has to see these tournaments as practice tournaments and and try to do it now yeah because it's different in a match and yeah
I don't disagree with you. My feelings are getting in the way, though. I just put myself in his position. It's a brutal place to be where it's like, this is the most effective version of this shot until you play.
three or four people. Which are the people that you're going to have to do to get the thing that you want? Are you worried? I'm not worried about Novak at all. I think you give him a quick surface and he's fine. You know, a couple of first round losses in a row. I didn't think he would, like honestly with the, with. The terror in Australia, I didn't think we'd see him until Monte Carlo anyways. I was stunned. Like, a torn hamstring in your back playing again.
two first round losses are you are you worried at all or is this just like he'll get in the grand slams it's a different thing I think once he gets a couple of matches I think you know we've seen him do it so so well where he can maybe
You know, not play his best tennis, but like win those matches. And I think once he gets a few matches under his belt, I think he can raise his level. It's also... really easy like i i felt way better about my chances against a rafa a roger a novak in two out of three you're rolling the dice there three out of five it's a different animal
I've always wondered about that. Like the mindset of like, you know, playing tournaments, you know, two out of three. And then all of a sudden, you know, the possibility of playing five sets. Like how mentally different that is too. Like when you win the first set, like.
Or lose it. It's such a different mindset than what we are used to. You're playing like David Ferrer and you lose the first set and it's like, this is soul destroying. This is an absolute moment of, or you're deep in a third set. right? Let's say you're deep in the third set and your legs are starting to go and you can feel it, but you know that there's a 10 minute horizon where this match will be over. Your legs become a lot less painful.
Now, if you know you have potentially another two and a half hours ahead of you. That's unbelievable. The mind games of that. And it's like if I win the next 10 minutes, I'm in a pretty good position. And if I. don't, I'm probably cooked. Like it's, it's so funny because like you with your weapons, like, you know, with the serve and the forehand, like you get so many like free points. Whereas think somebody like.
Like David Ferrer, right? He's probably thinking, all right, probably going to be five sets. He's going, listen, the points he wins are over quickly. His matches too. The best thing, by the way, it's David Ferrer's story. The best thing you'll ever see is him like winning a match, seven, six in the third. You see him, you'll be like driving home one of the courtesy cars and you see this.
person running on the side of the road, like in the desert in Indian Wells, it's him running home. And then you'd get a screenshot from your buddy where he's two hours later, having a scotch and smoke in a heater at the bar. I'm like, how intimidating is that? I saw him once after like a tough match at the Australian Open and like the timer on the treadmill was like 28 minutes. I'm like, wait, you've just been running for 28 minutes after you just played like a five-setter? Yeah.
So, yeah. Jim used to, couriers would talk about like he would do it, but only like you talk about the whisper campaign of, of the locker room where it's like, okay, is Alcaraz talking too much? Right. And then the whisper campaign starts. So maybe he's mortal after all. Jim Curry would be like, I was dead tired and I would run through the most populated areas of Melbourne Park just so someone would get a picture and that would get back to the locker room.
Yeah. The mind games. That's why I stopped breathing. That's why you didn't want Serena to hear you. That's pretty funny. Rumors are that, I don't know if these are out. Rumors are that Miami is up for sale. Oh, yeah? Very interesting. We'll see. Yeah, it's part of a bigger portfolio. I believe they sold off a piece of the portfolio already. Yeah. Whoever buys it, can we just combine Indian Wells and Miami for-
To three weeks, so we don't have this four-day weird period. Can we go back to Keebus Kane? Yeah, right. Seriously. Keebus Kane was awesome. Oh, that was the best. In the new place. I haven't been, but I heard it's... It's not a tennis facility, you know? It's not. I just want whatever happens. I just hope James is okay. He's a good citizen. Keep James Blake on the docket, whatever happens. Okay, so something kind of exciting. We always tease what's coming up.
It ain't me this time. We have a potential interview with Kim Clijsters and Portia Archer, CEO of the WTA Tour. Are we playing email tag right now, Mike Hayden? I know everyone wants to do it, but are we going to get this across the finish line? Is this something that will happen? Yeah, we were trying to do it around the announcement of the maternity fund.
uh porsche's schedule has just been uh slammed um with kind of all the american events uh so we're trying to put something together next week right kim yeah i can't wait i can't wait to see you just Going full Barbara Walters, the tough questions. Oh my God, sweating. Well, Portia is so cool and her background is so cool. And I think it's about a bunch of, it's not even just about the fun, right, Kim?
It's a bunch of different stuff at the WTM. No, I want a bigger brain. I want to know about everything. She's not here to answer. What's one question that you can't wait? Because you'll book her off and I have a question that will pop into my head. Yeah, so what I thought about...
is i want to know that when she was working in i guess was the g league or in the nba if she'd looked at tennis in her role then and said oh if i would ever be in that role like what would i change oh interesting what input could i take you know like
Yeah. Like something like that, like that you thought about in the past of this is what I would do if I was in charge there. And then I'm wondering, like, if you land in that job, you realize that it's harder or I can actually get this done. Yeah. Oh, interesting.
Well, that'd be good. I'm excited about that. It's going to be great. Right? It's going to be great. I can't wait. Yeah. Good. Well, the other thing that was great about this episode is that for the last 12 minutes, we haven't heard bone structure. Insane. So there's that. I expect to see something from the meme queen around bone structure very shortly. Social Sophie, thanks for checking in with us, saving me from these knuckleheads. Producer Mike.
pretending like you're in an office, but you are on vacation. I am. I'm on vacation, so this is great. I'm going to go have myself some type of Irish drink. It does look like a vacation hotel room, right? Yeah, is that a timeshare? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I'm in Parts Unknown. But for next week, Andy, I think I'm kicking around. Should we do a fan Q&A episode? Oh, cool. Great. What do you guys think? I'm in. I'm good for whatever.
Let's see what happens with the week. We've got to leave space in case something nutso happens. It's part of covering this game as we're reacting to the players who are doing all the hard stuff, and we're just chirping about it. Did you struggle going from Indian Wells to Miami with the heat and stuff and the humidity? Oh, that's a great call. Yeah, so actually, I was from...
This area but a lot of people so I actually was gonna make the point on Jack Draper and I'm a dummy so I didn't make it but This is the first stress test for this amount of humidity that we'll see this year. I couldn't breathe. In Miami. Rafa was telling me that last week. My chest. He's like, Rio and Miami, he goes, the only place I struggle physically. In the beginning, it took me time to, like, I was really. Could you hide that? No, not that.
No. What were you like again? That's how I was like. Like that. Big difference. So the ball flies through the air in any walls. For those listening, we talked about it last week. You get to Miami, Swampy Magoo, right? The ball's a lot heavier. You are sweating. The hydration matters. What time you play matters. There's also the one o'clock sunshine. I don't know if you remember this, but for my serve, if you were to say, what's the toughest place to serve? I would say the one o'clock match.
in miami because you have from one side you have to move your toss around you can't toss it straight up because you are looking directly at least from kiba scan i don't know about the new i assume it's probably the same or maybe there's some cover with the new stadium because it kind of goes over but that one o'clock match in miami was uh was brutal i did not struggle but i think the struggle was real for for a lot of people i have only hoped once in my life
that it was a very windy day and that was the day i opened my my curtains the hotel room when i had to play maria sharapova in the finals and i opened it up and i saw the palm trees were like i'm like yes This is what I want. And I hated playing with the wind, but I knew like she was worse at it than I was. Yeah. Because her toss goes so hard. Like, I mean, the higher your toss. Like she needs to, you know, the smooth. I'm like, okay. Yeah. This might, you know.
might have a chance my mind went to the opposite of that where we were in we were 08 in madrid i think playing in a bull ring in davis cup and i was scheduled to play ferrer and rafa that weekend on clay which that Okay. That was an aggressive laugh. No, not towards you. I mean, back to back. I remember doing the same thing. So you open the blinds and you see the Wendy Magoo and you're like, yes, she's going to struggle with a toss. I open my blinds.
And I see just spitting rain. Oh, heavy. And I said, let's book our tickets home. All right, everyone. Kim, thanks for joining us in studio. So Sophie, producer Mike, techie Sean. This has been served. We'll see you next week. Rumor has it. Q&A session from the fans. Get your questions ready. Nothing limits. We'll see you next week.