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Was that sort of common with the rivalry that the two of you had, that you would kind of psych yourself out before you played her in matches? Thinking back about how I felt at that time, I know now that I was already lost in my head.
I already lost the match before I even stepped out of my court. I was so nervous. I didn't really believe that I could beat her. My dad was kind of more there as my kind of mental support, I think, through those times and to keep the media a little bit on a distance. that all went really crazy for a while as well. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the third episode of our Love All podcast. We're doing a French Open special today.
because the French Open is on and I'm really excited. I've been stuck in front of my TV for the last few weeks. So Sophie sent out some questions on our social media platform and I'm going to try to answer them. well as I can. So, um, yeah, Sophie, let me know what was, uh, what were some of those questions that came in? Yeah. So I have a ton of questions. What I find so interesting about these slams is.
sort of what goes on behind the scenes. You have so much experience as a player. You've been playing there since you were, what, like three years old? And so I wanted to kind of get some questions about that and then... Yeah, the fans had a bunch too. Also about you as a player and about Paris and just kind of the fan experience there. And so I did kind of want to go back to when you first started playing there and sort of your debut at the French Open, which you were 15 years old.
Yeah, I think I was 15, 14, 15 when I played my first juniors event there. And then, you know, it was back in the day where you had those little cameras that you roll, you know, those... What do you call those? Sophie, you probably don't even know that stuff. No, I do. I do. A disposable camera. So, you know, I used to travel to all those tournaments and...
Back in the day, I felt like it was a lot easier to get closer to the top players. So I would go like on the sideline when Marcelo Rios was practicing and, you know, and Pat Rafter and Arantxa Sanchez. And yeah, so it was such a... An amazing experience for me for the first time. I never went as a kid as a fan. So for me as a junior player, to be able to get up close to the players and see Steffi Graf in the locker room.
under Susan Longland, like those kinds of experiences were so unique and made me even want to be a part of that lifestyle more. Was that your first time at a slam ever? Your first time at any slam tournament? When you were 15? Yeah, it was my first Grand Slam as a junior. Wow, I can't imagine. And what was that run like when you were 15?
Not great. I remember I lost to, you know, who was one of the best juniors at the time was Kara Black. She ended up being a good singles player, but even a better doubles player. But I learned a lot from her. And there's also a big tournament in Belgium, in Charleroi, on clay, a junior tournament before the juniors start at the French Open. And I remember just learning from her.
looking at her seeing how professional she was um seeing you know the warm-up that she would do just on her own like she didn't travel with you know a big group of kids right and so i think her brother was with her or he was her coach at the time but just like how locked in she was. And I remember as a young junior, seeing that and kind of taking that with me and learning, you know, from those kind of, yeah, kind of momentums that you pick up.
But I didn't do great at the French as a junior, but I was also a very young junior, right? I think I could still play under 16s too. But yeah, it just fed my motivation and my hunger to be, you know. up there with the pros one day. God, 15 years old. I mean, I'm sure most of the viewers can relate. I was like getting my braces off and
not getting asked to prom at 15. Like that's just crazy. I still had all the pimples and all that stuff too, like going through all that stuff. So were you still at that time? Were you in school in any way? Like, were you traveling, doing like travel schooling? Like, what was that like?
I was in school. So the way that the system in Belgium worked was I was at the Federation in Antwerp where I was in a boarding school training at the Federation, but I was at a stage. My coach was Karl Maas at the time, who ended up being my coach for many years. and who I'm still close with. But it's school at that point.
I was still doing my exams in school. I would miss a lot of weeks because of travel. So it was really hard to keep up. And the system wasn't really adjusted to a traveling athlete. traveling student right and and i think um i had really good intentions to take my math books and my english books and my dutch to do it all on the road and there was you know I wasn't traveling with a laptop or anything, so it was basically, you know, a big bag of heavy books.
Yeah, lost interest because I felt like I was in my, on my playground at the tennis. I mean, yeah. Sorry, I forgot my backpack. I don't know what to do. Yeah, sorry. Didn't have time. I was training eight hours a day, which was definitely not true. It's hard out here. That's it. And then, you know, once I started having better results on tour, that's when I had to kind of decide and say, OK, like this is this doesn't not work for me to do both. And yeah, so I had to make a decision.
uh, earlier on in my career to, to be all, all in on tennis, which I mean, obviously worked out. It was what, two years later that you were in the final at the same tournament. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess 2001, right, was my first final where I lost to, it was for my 18th birthday. I turned 18 literally the day before my first Grand Sam final. So in between the semis and the finals.
It was a big deal. I mean, not just for me personally, but I guess for Belgium too. Just seeing Hennen and myself, we played the semifinals for the first time in the Grand Slam against each other. And that was probably the only match I... One against her. What's the French crowd like in that environment? I mean, who do they are they rooting for everyone? Like, what's the energy like? Because we're so close to Belgium, there was I just remember walking out and seeing so many Belgian.
flags on on philippe chatrier and that was like really really cool i do feel like because of her um her native language is French, right? Being from the South of Belgium and that there was more of a connection to a French, from the French crowd. But again, it almost felt like playing at home because, you know, it's a, whatever, three, four hour card.
car ride from Belgium to Paris. So I had a lot of family members there. It was also the first time for me where, you know... like my favorite singers from belgium all of a sudden reached out to my dad and wanted to come sit in the box and like be there and you know so it was like a huge deal um and i feel like ever since then um yeah kind of life changed
on tour and the attention and the media attention and the expectations. But I didn't really worry about that too much. I think I was too young, too naive to let that all... Yeah. Matter. Too much. Yeah. Yeah. So you, so you beat her in the semifinal and then you play Jennifer Capriotti in the finals. Yep. Two days later, so Justine and I played on the Friday. It was my 18th birthday on Saturday. And then, yeah, we played, no, the other way around, I guess we played Thursday.
My birthday on Friday. And then we played on Saturday. We played the finals and lost to Jennifer Capriati. Had chances to win. I think I was two points away from winning. It was a very close. Three Sether. I think it was like 10-8 in the third or something like that. Very, very close. It's still one of the longest matches. french open history right is it yeah i don't know yeah it was like two hours two hours 21 minutes like something like that a really long match
And it was really cool for me to get to play against her because I, growing up, loved watching Jennifer play. Also, my dad was a soccer player, soccer coach in Belgium. I used to get some like Diodora gear because his team was sponsored by Diodora. And then.
jennifer was like wearing all that deodora gear so whatever she was wearing you know i would like once in a while get a couple outfits and i felt like it was like the greatest thing in the world that i got her like same same outfits and all that stuff so to be able to play against her and i remember at one
point i think i was two points away from the from i think i was like 15 30 on her serve in the third and um she was serving to stay in the match and all of a sudden like i see in the hallway like on the back of the court I see all these people like getting ready to set up for the ceremony and I see them like the trophy is there and I'm like oh my god like it all of a sudden like it just hit me and my arm I just felt like
Yeah, I couldn't focus anymore on what was happening like on the court. So I got so distracted. Yeah, it is. But I guess. Yeah, I had to learn it. Had you gotten to really talk to her before that match or after? Like, had you guys gotten to kind of interact at all? Afterwards, for sure. We used to practice a lot. We had...
Yeah, she was one of my favorite. You know, there's a couple of like hitting partners or not hitting partners, but like girls that you love to hit with players that you just say like, hey, listen, like, let's get a really good practice session in where we hit a lot of balls, where we, you know.
players who don't worry too much about you hitting winners early on, like you accept it from both sides. Like there's some players that, you know, feel like you need to hit the ball to them and yeah, where you can't really play your own game. She was not like that. I love practicing against her. My dad was traveling with me a little bit. My dad was not my coach, but he was there kind of as a dad. Her dad was always there. They got along really well.
And so we yeah, we used to yeah, it was like a really fun practice. And we always kind of left the court feeling good and ready to kind of start our tournament. Played her, I think, at the Masters in L.A. a couple of years later or, yeah, one year later, I think, when we played at the Staples Center. And, yeah, so, I mean, she's one of the players that… I would love to see again at the Legends tournaments. When you play at Wimbledon or matches at the US Open. She's definitely one of the players.
that I would love to see out there again and see, you know, just hit tennis walls. Have you guys gotten to see each other at the Hall of Fame or anything? Not yet. No, not yet. I haven't seen her for a long time. We've been in touch here and there a little bit, but nothing consistently. We're manifesting. It would be great to have her back on the tour a little bit.
Now that we've said it, it'll happen. Let's go. So you play Justine in the semis, Jennifer Capriotti in the finals, two huge matches. What was your run-up to those two matches? Because a question that one of the listeners asked that I thought was interesting was, do you find...
that it's best to kind of ease into the tournament and play maybe a qualifier in the first round? Or do you like to hit it head on and play kind of a more top ranked players right from the jump? Or is it kind of better to ease into it? I never really thought about it at that.
stage of my career um i was just super excited to play anybody most of you know everybody was higher ranked than me most of the time anyway right at that stage of my career so i felt like i was the underdog i felt like i had nothing to lose um Clay, although I grew up playing on clay in Belgium for six months out of the year, everything else was indoors, sometimes hardcore, sometimes an indoor carpet. Clay wasn't my favorite surface to play on, but I...
It's really hard for me to get back to your question. It's really hard for me to remember a lot of matches. I remember my feeling more than I remember scorelines. I remember opponents. I just remember feeling that I wasn't playing my best tennis. And then all of a sudden, I'm in the final of the French Open. Like, I remember feeling like, yeah, but I can still do much better. Like, that's how I felt.
Yeah, maybe that's also your own kind of criticism that's in there, right? And yeah, because my team would say like, no, but you know, it looks like you're moving well, it looks like you're, you know. I was early on making a lot of unforced errors still where I just wanted to go for my shots and really didn't think too much about strategy or reading your opponents. But yeah, I just remember feeling that I felt like...
I could still play much better and I had played so much better before. So, but which on the other hand also was very motivational, right? Because I was beating good players. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe Mike can help with looking at some of those pre-matches or those earlier on matches. I think I played Puczek. I think she was one of the players that I played.
One of my favorite stories is one of my best friends now, Marek Herremans, who was a triathlete in Belgium. I met him there for the first time. He had a tragic accident where he broke his back and he came to watch me play at that French Open for the first time. But yeah, a sad but also really nice moment that I was able to connect with him at the French Open.
But yeah, it's nice that you look back on those matches and you don't think so much about who you played or the match specifics and you think about it as more of like a feeling. And I had this nice moment with this nice player, like what a great way to look back at.
your career i mean i think so i mean when i hear guys talk or you know women even but i think it's more men where they look at statistics and results and names and um i think like wow i wish i had that like i don't recall a lot of things like i hear guys talk about certain points at you know in the five hole in the fourth set like i don't have that at all yeah but it doesn't it doesn't matter i mean obviously like i'm a woman too i probably would have had approached it from the same
the same lens, but yeah, that doesn't matter nearly as much as, yeah, I had this great moment with this new friend of mine or I got to build this relationship with this person. Like that's lasting stuff. Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's, I guess, just how I am too, right? It's like those are, yeah, those were important moments and that probably stuck out more than winning.
You know, the third match against so-and-so. I don't know who that was. Yeah, totally. Do you look back now and still think I wasn't playing my best tennis? Or are you like, well, I made the final, so I kind of was playing my best tennis?
I think now I look back to it and think I was good enough on the day to beat these players. I didn't have to play my best tennis. Back when you're younger, you think like, oh, these top players, they play their best tennis all the time. And that's something that I learned as I got older is that. That's really not what you have to try to achieve. You want to play perfect tennis, but there's not many matches in my career that I can say.
You know, there you can say, like, I've almost played with my eyes closed. Like I could hit the ball wherever I wanted to. It was landing perfectly. Most of it is being good enough on the day and trying to find ways to just be a little bit better than your opponent.
That's how I feel about it now. But at the time when you're in the middle of it, you don't want to make the errors. You don't want to make the double folds. You want to be the aggressive player. Don't let your opponents push you back and start defending too much. So you want to do... all that but yeah you just learn as you get older that you you just have to be good enough on the day and your confidence and your level will grow um by kind of you know
playing with that mindset. And obviously, you have to put in the work and all that stuff. But yeah, it's just a different mindset as you get older. Yeah, I mean, I think the reason that people maybe have that misconception of why they're always playing their best tennis is because you guys are in your heads, but we're watching it going, wow, they hit the ball exactly where they wanted to hit it. It looks so easy. And so that's just a testament to how.
You know, even when you're in your head thinking, I'm not doing my best at all, it looks like absolute magic out there. Yeah, yeah, I guess. And I always, when I looked at other platers, I always... felt like that too, right? I was like, wow, they hit the ball so hard. They move so well. And then I had moments, you know, when I would play against somebody, I was like, oh.
that ball is not coming off their racket as hard as I thought or you know they're not yeah I feel like if I can move them a couple of times side to side I can yeah they can't, they can't keep that up or whatever. Like, like, so it's I think I, a lot of, I'm not going to say I overestimated, but I think I underestimated myself, which a lot of times was also good because I didn't take any opponent for granted or I didn't just assume that.
I was going to beat anybody before the match, probably the opposite. I was always very much focused on, you know, a match starts 50-50, right? And you have to try and... just be better um is that something that your coaches tell you like your matches start 50 50 or is that something like do some players go in going oh i i got this or do they tell you like you try to keep it kind of you know you never know how it's going to go
I think it was a combination of like how I was brought up, I think, you know, just. put in the work and, and I heard something on, on, I think it was like the NBA now with the, with the playoffs and everything, um, you know, players talk about like how, you know, throughout the season there's, there's, um,
Yeah, they're not defending as hard or they're not, you know, really pushing their opponents and just not being as physical and things like that. And I'm like, wow, like, can you imagine if like a tennis player would think like that? Like, oh, I'm not going to try for a certain amount. of matches or certain amount of tournaments. And I just couldn't like, can like, yeah, understand that. I understand it from a physical side and it is such a different sport, but just.
Yeah, I couldn't, like my competitiveness could not deal with, you know, not giving it my all. wherever I play like it's it didn't have to be a Grand Slam it doesn't have to be on a big show court or anything like that like whether I was playing a small tournament in an indoor facility with 30 people watching or you know Roland Garros final
My effort was always the same. My level wasn't always as good, but my effort, I always tried to... That was really pushed, I think, from my... coaches my team growing up my parents is whatever you do like mistakes are fine but your effort is something you can control and that's what you have to put out there and show and Yeah. And I think that was a little bit, you know, my mindset that I kept throughout my career is, is, um, yeah. And it's the same. I mean, I'm.
I hear my parents speak to me when I talk to my kids now, right? When they're playing sports. And when I talk to Jada, when she goes and plays, it's effort. That's what you can control. There's a lot of things you can't control, but effort, you definitely can. And yeah, so that's...
My parents talking to me, I guess. And then talk to me. I mean, moving forward after that, after that match in the finals, you played up until 2012. Were you at the French Open kind of every year? Was that a tournament you played? That may be a dumb question. Most of the time, I'm sure I've had a few injuries where I wasn't able to make it, but I lost in a final to Justine Hennen. I lost to her in three out of my four grandstand finals that I...
played prior winning my first one at the US Open in 2005. But I lost to Justine in 2003 in my Roland Garros final. And thinking back about how I felt at that time, I... know now that i always already lost in my head like i already lost the match before i even stepped out of the court i was so nervous i didn't really believe that i could beat her um you know she was like the
the clay court specialist, right? Like she had the, the you know the best mover on on that surface she had the hands she had the variety with that beautiful one-handed backhand she could you know have the variety with the slice um yeah just a really hard player to play on
on that surface and i just didn't believe um that i was good enough to beat her was that sort of common with the the sort of rivalry that the two of you had that you would kind of psych yourself out before you played her in matches A little bit, a little bit, I think, especially early on, although I beat her in the first time we played at the 2001, at the 2001 Roland Garros, but then over time, like she became such a...
um yeah a well-known clay court specialist at that you know on Philippe Chatrier like she did so well there um so you know i'm sure i was not the only one that you know was not looking forward to playing against her um but it also taught me a lot of things right to be better and to become a better clay courts player and to learn to use my slice better and to move
better on on the surface so um you know there's pros and cons to it i guess the biggest con is that i never was able to beat her on that surface but then over time i was able to beat her you know which gave me a lot more confidence on the grass courts on on the hard courts and so that helped a lot yeah but on clay courts she was definitely almost unbeatable for many years.
This week on Prof G Markets, we speak with Aswath Demodaran, Professor of Finance at NYU's Stern School of Business. He shares his take... on the recent tariff turmoil and what he's watching as we head into second quarter earnings. This is going to be a contest between market resilience and economic resilience as to whether, in fact, the markets are overestimating the resilience of the economy.
And that's what the actual numbers are going to deliver is maybe the economy and markets are a lot more resilient than we gave them credit for. In which case, we'll come out of this year just like we came out of 2020 and 2022 with much less damage than we thought would be created. You can find that conversation exclusively on the Prof G Markets feed. I want to go behind the scenes. A lot of the listeners that...
that wrote questions and had questions kind of behind the scenes of the logistics of the tournament. But before we do that, do you have a match? I know there's so many notable matches from the French Open tournaments. Do you have one that's your favorite that maybe is a little bit of a... a lesser known match or a lesser known even experience of the French Open? I mean, I would have to say like my favorite French Open match is my my final against Jennifer Capriati, just because of the moment.
The moment in which it happened in my career, it was so unexpected. The fact that I was able to play against Capriotti was so much fun as well. Yeah, so I think that if I have to pick one match, that's although I lost it. A few of my favorite matches have actually been the ones that I've lost, which I don't know what says. But yeah, but also they were like...
I was playing against my idols, playing against people that I looked up to. So yeah, I would pick that one for sure. Good. And then as you kept... Coming back to the tournament, I'm sure your team grows the more that you kind of like when you're 17, you're traveling with, I assume, your parents. And then who else are you traveling with at such a young age?
um so i was still you know traveling with my coach carl um at the time um he was my parents would be there but my dad being an like a former athlete in soccer and everything knew that it was so important to not kind of Like he wasn't a tennis coach or anything like nobody in my family, you know, played tennis or.
for fun, maybe here and there. But my dad was kind of more there as my kind of mental support, I think, through those times and to keep the media a little bit on a distance because that all went really... crazy for a while as well. And so he was kind of my protector a little bit from all that. But for me, yeah, I just kept my. It's not like it is now where you hear about these people having six, seven, eight kind of team members. And it was basically just...
Me, I would use the physios from the WTA and from the French Federation that are downstairs in the locker room. And also, you know, this is kind of the first time where you're making a little bit of money, where you, you know, up until then, you know.
having, you know, a full-time coach, physio, trainer, like that's almost at that stage of your career, impossible to be able to afford all those things. And so... yeah, just used all the, the, uh, the facilities that the tournament provides that the wta provides at the itf the french tennis federation provides and they were some of the best people that you know you could have sometimes there was a little bit of a weight right if i signed up for a massage um and i finished my
at 3 p.m and I wanted to have my massage after my media at 5 p.m sometimes that slot wasn't available so I would have to wait till 7 p.m so that wasn't ideal because I wanted to go to dinner and so but you deal with that early on right you don't you don't worry about you know waiting for two hours and and or at least i didn't um so um
Yeah, so that's how it goes in the beginning. And then over time, as I got a little bit older, you can afford, you know, expanding your team and you know a little bit more about, oh, what do I like when I'm playing? Do I want my massage therapist there so that I can literally, you know, only spend 30 minutes after I'm done practicing and maybe have some lunch and then I'm going to do my rehab in my room in the hotel because I want to get away from the craziness and the hecticness of. of being.
at the you know at the facility and and being around your opponents and being around people you know when you walk around asking for autographs and pictures and it's not that it's bad but it just takes a lot of energy um so yeah you decide to kind of you know, step away from the tennis and do your business when you're out there playing and practicing and then everything else. I just try to, you know, do most of it.
if possible on the hood in the hotel room and uh and have my my people you know there and then my coach would a lot of times stay around watch my opponents um so he would scout nice you've got eyes yeah yeah nice and um And then I feel like towards the later stages of my career, when I had a daughter, you know, that definitely was not the easiest part, right? Is finding, yeah, the setups in the French hotels are also not as... Not always as convenient, I think. So...
To have a little girl traveling with you, have a nanny there. So you want to maybe connecting rooms or have, you know. So it just, yeah, just different than what you're used to. So you have to look for maybe different hotels.
But now I think, you know, I'm talking about this is a long time ago. Like I'm talking. Yeah. Well, but once you reach to like once you did get a little bit older, even maybe after you did have Jada and you've kind of you've been to the tournament a few times, you know what works for you, what doesn't.
Did you find that you kind of liked to spend most of your time in the hotel room? Did you find that you could decompress in Paris, go to parks? I think Iga said in an interview a few days ago that she likes to play early matches so she can go home and... build Legos, maybe hit a park, but like not do very much. And then sometimes I think they like to go to nice dinners and stuff like that.
Dinners is something that we would do early on, you know, that we always kind of did throughout. There was like routine. I was very superstitious. There were different. I stayed early on in my career. I stayed in this hotel called Hotel California. It was just off the Champs-Élysées.
A small little side street. So it was like a very easy kind of walk to, you know, good restaurants. But then the superstitiousness kind of kicks in too. And you, you know, pick your same restaurants on your days off. You pick your restaurants. like before match days because you don't want to risk, you know, certain things and getting sick or trying new foods or anything. So I was kind of probably pretty boring. But I just also wanted to rest. Like I just wanted to like.
put my legs up, you know, watch a lot of tennis on TV. Like I've always watched a lot of tennis. Yeah, and that's basically it. I would walk around, you know. If, you know, my mom and dad were there or something, I would walk around and, um, and, and yeah, visit, you know, I mean, it was never long. It was like a 30 minute walk just to be outside for a second and, but no crazy.
Didn't do much, actually. It sounds pretty boring. What were your superstition meals or some of them or favorite restaurants? Well, so they're obviously different in each place. I think early on at the French Open, there was a... Indian restaurant just at the bottom was called Annapurna. And they were literally a two minute walk from the hotel. But after a while, like they just knew, you know.
what we want like what we wanted to eat and um it was plain chicken tandoori some rice a couple of vegetables and that was it Um, nothing, nothing too crazy. And, um, but they, you know, after a while, like those people, they support you, they follow your results and they cheer for you. And so it became, it becomes like.
Yeah, like you're not your, like people that are there to, you know, treat you well, but then also they want to be a part, they want you to come back like in two days. So, you know, being in the quarterfinals or so that you create this energy that. Yeah, it was just a lot of fun and you get to do that in different parts of the world too. So those were...
A lot of times really fun, really fun connections. And to that restaurant, actually a few years ago, I took a few of my girlfriends to that restaurant and the same people still work there. So it was really nice to see them again. I mean, that's what it's all about. I can imagine it gets difficult at times when you're traveling that much. So to be able to create what is really a family in different little pockets of the world is...
So cool. And I think you hear a lot of players that have that exact experience where they're eating at the same restaurant, the same food. And of course, like from my perspective, I'm like, but you're in Paris. Like, are you eating croissants? But of course it's not like that. That's not real.
realistic but the thing is like you do get a taste of it right because when you are doesn't matter what hotel you're in like the breakfast like the french breakfasts are so different than what it is you know in any part of the world right so you do get the
and the the chocolate you know the pain au chocolat and you get all those kind of things there but then it's a matter of like that's also part of growing up is okay like i'm going to wait until i'm done playing before i you know that's how i was right like i didn't want to eat those things um because you know and that's the kind of that that hard kind of you know everything has to be perfect if i want to you know achieve good things and um i wanted to not
You know, not I didn't want to eat them because I thought if I eat this, that's not going to give me good energy. I'm not. So I would kind of that would be like the treat at the end of the tournament if I when I was done.
Did you find if you had a little pocket where you weren't playing as well, your superstitions kind of changed from like, okay, well, I can't do that anymore because that's not working for me. I got to kind of switch it up. Or does it stay pretty consistent? And you start looking at the things like, oh, what should I have done differently? And it's... Not just the on-court stuff, right? Like a lot of times, you know, I felt a lot.
a lot of confidence kind of in my shots because it's got it that had gotten me to that point like I would maybe tweak a couple little things here and there but never I would never really change my technique too much or But it was a lot of those kind of things. It was, oh, what could I have done better recovery-wise? What could I have done better, you know?
mentally like what what you know why was I so nervous and what you know just to learn to talk about those kind of things that's another thing that you don't really do a lot is is you know talk about now it's a lot more common to talk about your emotions and to talk about your fears and and um a lot of the negative things you know you kind of push aside because you don't want to look weak and especially on the tennis court um
But yeah, but once I learned to do that, and one of my favorite people that I've ever had on my team was Sam. He was my trainer, my osteopath. And from the moment that I laid... down on the table, on the massage table. He was like, that's when, you know. everything, I would start talking and I would talk about, he never played tennis, but I would talk about like, oh, my timing was a little bit off with my forehand or why am I late? Like, and he didn't know like how to react, but his.
Just from him not being a tennis player, it just gave me a different... view on things as well and and how the brain works and how you know focusing your attention on some of the negative things you know just to get through that and it's all a learning process and um The tough thing about tennis is, you know, we can practice our forehands and our backhands and our serves and you can do anything you want on the practice court, but there's the mental side and dealing with emotions.
the extra pressure that comes on playing on the big stadiums, seeing the trophy on the sideline and knowing that that could be yours in an hour and a half, like dealing with those kind of emotions. You can't practice. You can only experience it when you're out there. You only experience it when you're out there. And that was at times a little bit.
overwhelming for me, which was frustrating because I couldn't practice that on the practice court. So I had to relive it. I just had to try to give myself more opportunities to get to the semifinals and the finals and try to beat the players that I lost to prior and try to change some things up here and there. But that's definitely, I feel like, one of the hardest things in tennis is that...
You want to work on your mental side and you want to become stronger mentally, but you can only practice or only learn as you're going through it in matches. Did you find that it did get easier the more you played? Yeah. Yeah, it gets easier. It gets easier with life experiences that happen off court as well. You know, you you you learn to kind of.
yeah, have just a different perspective on it all. And it's not so black and white. It's not just win or lose. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, you know. Getting older, maturing, knowing the team that you have around you, being very consistent with the work that you're doing, that gives you a lot of confidence too. And I feel like, yeah, being strong mentally. for me meant also knowing that i've put in all the work on the court on the in the gym i did all my recovery and um
That is such a confidence booster on its own. And you carry that with you. And it does help, right? It does help as you get older to kind of learn to not be so impacted by. the trophy on the sideline or you know just to be like okay try to stay really in the moment and and um nothing
I think that's the biggest thing that I learned is just to try to stay in the moment and not let the negative kind of thoughts take over and learn. They're always there. They're there. But you just don't let them take over. Nurse, nervous system. That's a lot to put on. We have so much expectation on these.
tennis players to be mentally tough and to go out there and perform at such a crazy level all the time that I even find myself forgetting sometimes. These players are like 19. There's so much expectation on them to be. so emotionally aware and mature and yeah you can only do so much so to think like of course you're going to go out on the on the court see the trophy and freak out you know and um we have we have a lot of um
What's the right word? Just, yeah, there's a lot of pressure on these players to like always be on and always be the best and always be mature and always handle things perfectly when us in our own lives, me at this. podcast desk. Like I make mistakes and, you know, I don't feel like there's a ton of grace all the time for these players. It's understanding the process.
And trusting the process, right? It's trusting that it's going to take time. And that's the great thing about tennis is, you know. It has taken a lot of time for any of these players to be in the main draw of the French Open. It's taken a lot of time for them to get there. We have a lot of goals. We have a lot of short-term goals, but there's a lot of long-term goals that take years.
to achieve. And for a lot of players, they don't make it either. They all have the goals to, you know, trying to get into the main draw of a Grand Slam is for a lot of players the goal. So it's understanding the process and everybody wants to do well. And, you know, we have four. Grand Slams a year and everybody wants to do well. The good thing is that we have the opportunity that if you don't do well in Australia, literally a few months later, you can try to be better at the French Open.
It's the process. It's knowing that you have to trust the process. It's that you have to be patient. It doesn't change all of a sudden, right? Because there's more media attention or people are talking to you about your losses in the media or your wins. it it automatically will just get better it's you have to trust the process and you have to put in the work and you have to schedule your tournament smartly and you have to tend to like practice your or schedule your
your weeks off in between tournaments, when you change surfaces. I feel like that was one of my biggest strengths was that I was able to always remember that I had to build in. practice weeks and and now i feel like there's a lot of players that just kind of play play week in week out um Because of, you know, whether it's money reasons, sponsors, points to defend. But I think in the long run, that will have a negative effect on.
your mental health, physically. Yeah, so it's important to find that balance that works for you. And I feel like with my team and the people that I had around me early on, I was able to find... the balance that really worked for me. And I always felt very hungry getting to the tournaments and I was so ready to start playing. Once you had kind of more choice in your schedule and a little bit more freedom, maybe financially, what did...
What did the weeks or week leading up to the French Open look like for you as far as practice, trying to get your mental state right? Walk us through like a week before.
So I dated an Australian tennis player. So I did have some struggles early on in my career with my team with people telling me that I. should play this this tournament because it was better and i was stubborn and i was like no i want to be you know at you know watching my boyfriend play and and you know like things like that so real kim um i know so real for that But at the end of the day, yeah, I.
I always liked to play. As I got older, I didn't like to play the week before Grand Slam unless I really needed it. I think we saw that with Novak playing in Geneva before the French just because he needed the matches. And he was very open and saying, like, if I... I didn't feel like I needed to win some matches. I wouldn't be here right now. And so I also kind of felt like, OK, I want that last.
the last, especially the last few days, like three, four days before you're playing your first round at Roland Garros, like I didn't want to, I just wanted that to be. my schedule that I like, where I feel good, that I can go to the gym, I can have my treatments. And when you're playing a tournament before, it's, you know, I don't want to rush into traveling from one place to the other and being in a different...
Different bed, different pill, like all that stuff does have an impact. And so I just wanted to stay most of the time, if possible, stay an extra few days. preparing myself at the site. But then, yeah. There have definitely been a few cases where I did decide to play a tournament because I just wasn't hitting the ball well. I just felt like my confidence was low or I had an injury prior and I just wanted to have some more matches.
So tennis is such a sport that goes on how you feel. And I think, I mean, for me, that was definitely the case. If I felt good, I didn't feel the need to. play more matches i was ready i could switch it on when i had to and um so over time yeah just learn to understand what works for you and what doesn't
Did you find it hard on the flip side of the tournament going from, say you made the French Open final, going kind of straight to Wimbledon? Was that a harder transition for you because it's so close? I mean, it was all exciting. You know, I just came from this great result and I got to play on grass, which was fun. And most of the time I played a smaller grass court tournament in... I mean smaller than the French Open.
in Rosmalen-Szertogenbos, which is still around. And it was one of my favorite tournaments because it was an hour drive from my home. So I could go and practice on those grass courts right away. And it was a little bit of adjustment, but that was also the fun about it. It was trying to adjust as quickly as possible. And then you see Rafa do it literally from going to winning the title on Sunday on clay to practicing.
at the Queen's courts the next day and being on top of the baseline and trying to, you know, hit his returns like, you know. A lot closer. I mean, it's just those kind of things. Yeah, you learn from other people and you observe and you learn and you just try to push yourself and talk to your team about adjustments here and there.
Yeah, and that's the fun part. There's so much variety in tennis, the surfaces, the playing style that you have to achieve on those kind of surfaces, which is what I always loved. No, that's a lie. I shouldn't say I always loved that because there were definitely some frustrating moments. But I always loved the challenge, I think. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, that's what I think separates.
the best from, like, you know, finding that challenge exciting is probably what makes the top people the top people. You know, instead of being, instead of that being so daunting and also understanding at the French Open. You know, there's not many, especially not on the women's side. There's not many clay court specialists. Like there's a lot of players who don't enjoy playing on clay. And I think from the moment that I understood that and.
Like I said in the beginning, just to be good enough on the day, it doesn't have to be my best feeling. But if I could win my matches...
where I just had to be good enough on the day. My opponents also didn't like sliding on clay or didn't like that the timing or that there were more bad bounces or that, you know, it was harder to hit the backhand, the higher backhands. And those were all... moments where yeah that that made a big difference for me once i you know was mature enough to realize like oh my opponents
also don't like this unless I was playing Justine or, you know, like a few players that loved the clay. But yeah, that became such an important realization for me, knowing that, you know. my best tennis or not playing my best tennis was a lot of times still better than other players who didn't enjoy playing on the clay either.
That comes with that kind of mature maturity and the more mature mindset. Yeah. And everyone, some people are just kind of better at faking that they're also really nervous and also struggling. Yeah. Yeah. And some people are really good at putting that.
front on and i'm sure that's really intimidating as a player to be playing someone who like you're like oh they they're not nervous at all and they know they know that they're going to win this versus you who's like quivering and shaking and so nervous on the inside yeah you feel that as an opponent you feel i feel i can feel when my opponent is starting to be a little more nervous you feel it
With the shots, you see it with the movement, being a little bit late, a couple of mistakes that they weren't making up until a couple of minutes prior. So tennis is also very much an intuitive sport and you learn to read energy, you learn to read... yeah body language and and so there's so many things like that that you can pick up and that do all even at times where you're losing where you feel like oh the door is maybe still open a little bit because you just showed me something
that I can definitely use to try and, you know, be more consistent or try to break you down a little bit. And I think that's the fun part about the whole mental side of the sport is that you can, yeah. You eat those things from your opponent. You crush them emotionally. Well, they do that on their own, right? Yeah, but that's the thing. You crush your own game.
there's never really been an opponent who's crushed me emotionally. It was my own thoughts that did that. Right. Was it them doing it? Was it them doing it secretly through like, you know what I mean? Were they, it's almost like a, no, it's like your own. your own insecurities your own doubts you're like they are that's what gets you down but yeah i guess when you learn to not feed into that so much yeah and and kind of
put the focus somewhere else, you learn to... That's hard to do. That's really hard. That's a hard thing to learn to do. It is, but that's just how tennis creates that. You learn that unknowingly. I never consciously was like, oh, let me do this right now. I'm like, no, you just learn to do that over time. Kim, I have one of the most – we can edit this question out. I have such an unhinged question. Okay. Oh, boy. I was watching a documentary. Got it. Okay. I'm just going to say it.
I was watching the Paul Brothers documentary. Are you familiar with the Paul Brothers? Logan and Jake Paul? Oh, yes. Okay. Well, they have a documentary out. I was watching their documentary and they were interviewing Jake Paul's girlfriend. I'm a big fan of Utah.
Me too. So am I. Okay. I was hoping we would have this little moment because I just had to admit that I watched the Paul Brothers documentary. So I was hoping we would get to that moment. I'm a big fan of Yuta as well. And they were talking to her and she was saying that before. Jake has a match, they don't sleep in the same bed because if she gets bad sleep or if she's like tossing and turning, she gets nervous that Jake's going to have a bad match. He's not getting the right sleep, whatever.
Did you ever have any weird superstitions like that where like you and Brian aren't sleeping in the same bed or like something you're like, stay away from me. I don't want to be near you before a big match. Not really, I don't think. Not like that.
I mean, listen, I can tell you a lot of stories now, but probably for a different type of show. But no, I... didn't feel like that at all to me having him around um was also very relaxing to me um it kept my mind off um you know what's happening tomorrow or you're playing this big game like no like that wasn't the case for me um yeah he's like it's more of a calming presence yeah to me it was that way but i understand um
the part where you know and i've seen utah like kind of talk about you know i need to be locked in you know i guess the the olympics the world championships yeah same goes for her yeah yeah Yep. And to kind of be away from each other. And I guess when you're an athlete, it's so normal. Like I've seen that, you know, where people ask me, like, how do you do it? Like when you're away for two weeks and I'm like, what do you mean?
It's so normal for me to, you know, jump on a plane like my husband was an athlete. You know, he OK, he played basketball. So he was in one place for a longer amount of time. But it's so normal for us to.
be apart from each other um it's i'm sure it's harder um you know like for them i guess they not too long ago just got engaged i think and um and and to then yeah to then leave each other and and you know like it's it just takes maturity right to to understand that you know you have your goals and and you know she wants to achieve it and i'm
there all the way there to support it and i want to see her win win the gold oh me too i'm so hopeful oh my gosh especially after watching that documentary i was like she has to get she works i haven't watched it hard but i i've you know she was the star in my opinion yeah and she spent a ton of time with her family she gives a lot of she's very very close with her family and um she gives a lot of credit to them for her career and i think we saw that a lot
at the Raw office ceremony when he was speaking. I'd love to know your thoughts about his speech and sort of how he was so gracious and grateful to his family and his team for the past 20 years. It was, I really, really loved. watching it, the whole tribute, from the t-shirts that they handed out.
you know the things that were written kind of in the you know with the people wearing the white t-shirts in the stadium and then seeing roger and novak and andy walk out and and um was it was so i don't know it was just so perfect i feel like for him um and um yeah and then seeing you know listening to his speech and the way that he yeah
The way that he thanked his family members, but it's also like seeing, having seen Rafa around for all these years, like literally from when he was a little boy, not speaking any English where you have to translate some of the questions.
that journalists would ask him to all of a sudden you know giving you know speaking a little french doing a lot of it in english in spanish like and thanking his family like they are so grounded like they're so hardworking grounded good good head on their shoulders professional like you see his whole team whenever you're at a tournament shake hands with with
The people from transportation, with the people that worked at the practice desk, like always saying goodbye to everybody. Very, you know, open. You can connect with somebody like him. Very professional. um and then um yeah to hear to hear him talk about his family members and how much they've meant and um you can yeah you just always felt that right like he's had such a
long relationship with every family member, obviously, but also his team members. And, you know, the relationship that he had with Carlos Moya and with his uncle and just the impact that they've all had.
was just really beautiful to witness there. And, you know, there is ups and downs and there is struggles. And there's a lot of things that go on privately that... you don't know or that the people don't know about but it does that means that makes the connection to those people even stronger when things do go well and um and so for to see
their son there you know was so cute and just it just makes me feel like and i had the same with like with andy even right like like to see you know growing up playing juniors together and then seeing him get married and have kids it's like you're like oh yeah like you know he's in this next stage of life seeing serena like like there's so many fun like amazing stories about having these long careers with people um
And then seeing them move on and, you know, be well in life. And that's all you can hope for, right? And that makes you really excited to see that, yeah, life is... It's not always easy to when you've been such a professional, like a high level professional athlete and very intense to see it all kind of fall apart. But I just felt like this.
Yeah, it was like the perfect tribute. And I feel like, yeah, the French and Amelie Moresmo seeing her there, like it was just a really nice, perfect, personal. um deep kind of tribute and i can't wait to kind of step on center court and see the plaque that they've put um next to the uh the ball boy um at the net so i i want to see that in person that was amazing
I don't know. I wasn't expecting it. I was already so blown away by the whole ceremony itself. And then they swept away the clay and showed the plaque and I was done. Right. And it's like he didn't. realized that it was like a forever thing whereas he thought it was just for the day or it was just for the tournament this year but then when he found out that it was um yeah there forever um that was uh
Yeah, very nice. And you can see that he was really kind of touched by it. And so, yeah, who knows, maybe in the future. When we're all a little bit older, they might name one of the courts after him or that would be really cool too. Yeah, that would be very fitting. Yeah, that whole ceremony. I mean, it really takes all of the people that he thanked to build someone like that. is so lasting and that humility just like showed in the moment you're just talking about where he
they sweep away this clay thing and he just thinks it's there for a day and he's crying about it. And he doesn't even understand like really the impact that he's, that he's had. And, um, yeah, the whole thing was just, was beautiful. And to have everyone there supporting him was just. amazing it was like kind of the perfect day for it right and seeing them together those four um
It was just really seeing them hug each other. And then, I mean, I cried a lot when Roger said goodbye at the Lever Cup and, you know, hugging and holding hands with Rafa and all those kind of, you know, images that...
that you have from that day to seeing it now, you know, kind of being reversed towards Rafa was really nice. And you can just see like these guys are, you know, they... yeah like outgrew the sport right in a sense and and so to see what they'll be doing in the future and and hope that they can still play some exhibitions and that we can still you know it doesn't have to be the highest level but just with their presence and their energy
and is what I look forward to watching and I can't wait to see what they're going to do with all the other things that they're doing in life so it was a nice ending to his connection with Roland Garros All right, Kim, thanks for sitting down with us and chatting. It's always good when we can catch you back at home. Where are you headed to next? I'm home and then our next trip will be, I'll take Jada to Europe where she will prepare with her.
Belgium national team under 18, and they'll train. And then the middle of July, she'll play in Spain. The European Championships are in Gran Canaria. So I'll be there. Wow. Good luck, Jada. Yeah, thanks. Always rooting for her. And that's so exciting. How long are you guys going to be gone for? It will be about 10 to 12 days in Spain, but we'll be in Belgium for preseason and things like that. And then we come here because she has more tournaments in the States right after.
Yeah. A lot of basketball. Uh, when the weather is nice, I'll be in some indoor facility. Um, and, uh, yeah, watching more. more basketball i did find a little uh new little trick that helps me because i don't know for some reason like the loud noise i don't really deal with well anymore so i take my earplugs and I just put them, you know, it's the whistles, it's the yelling of the parents and I just put my earplugs in and yeah, that's it.
Kim, thanks for sitting down with us. Enjoy the rest of your summer and time with your family. We'll catch you on the next episode. And then you guys can follow us on all of our socials at Love All Podcast. Pretty simple. And then you can subscribe on YouTube under Served Media. And we'll see you guys. for the next episode thanks for listening