Daniel 0:00
What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Seoul Therapy, the podcast. My name is Daniel Daytona. And in today's episode, we will be recapping High School rapper season four, with our take on the overall season. And as usual, if you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to our podcast on all streaming platforms. And don't forget to give us that five star rating. Also, for more content, please go and follow our socials at Seoul underscore Therapy. Alright, so recently High School rapper season four concluded with Trade L hailed as the winner. But we also noticed how this season to a certain extent, it seemed like the hype kind of ran dry, and maybe it's due to COVID. But the energy and the tone didn't really progress to the latter part of the program. So I wanted to start our discussion with just a general question of what is your overall take on high school rapper four?
Daytona 1:00
Um, you're kind of being generous here, Daniel. I mean, like quality from the quality of the like the music, like how good the contestants were like, all of that aside, just looking at how, how much of a want to call it how hot this audition was, I guess.
Daniel 1:27
Right
Daytona 1:28
Like, no, this minute this season didn't measure up to the previous three at all. And it has since high school rapper has always been on a decline, I guess.
Daniel 1:41
Yeah.
Daytona 1:41
Yeah. Season Two was great. But it was not very great as season one. And season three was kind of ok, but it was not as good as Season Two; and season four, I think we're starting to see the beginning of the end, maybe?
Daniel 1:59
Yeah, it started to kind of dim a little bit.
Daytona 2:02
Yeah. I think there are many, many factors to this.
Daniel 2:08
Hmm.
Daytona 2:10
First of all, there weren't any female contestants, I guess.
Daniel 2:14
Oh, th at's true.
Daytona 2:14
Which is a problem.
Daniel 2:15
That is very true.
Daytona 2:17
Um, I know, like the production team said they were not like not many female rappers applied in the first place. And there were not... the people who did like they thought it was not viable enough to get like they were not skilled enough - I guess.
Daniel 2:36
Hmm..
Daytona 2:37
They said that in the press conference. And considering like whether or not that is true, let's say it is true. That doesn't take away from the fact that there's less diversity.
Daniel 2:53
Yeah.
Daytona 2:53
in the pool in like... And I'm not saying this from a politically correct standpoint. I'm just saying this from a very business perspective. If you have less representation in a certain group that is on TV, it means you're going to lose half of your like viewership.
Daniel 3:13
That is very true.
Daytona 3:14
Yeah, one of the best things about high school rapper three was not because the people on there were rapping better than people rapping that are rapping better than the contestants of high school season, like one or two. It was because there were lots of characters that were represented; you had substantial female rappers and that entails that more women will be able to see this audition program actually rooting for them. Like...
Daniel 3:43
That is very true. It's very, it was very diverse last season.
Daytona 3:46
Yeah, being that diverse means having diverse people look at your program, having diverse like, watch your program, but this season lacked that, which means that there will be less people watching the program and...
Daniel 3:58
That's true.
Daytona 4:04
Like this whole gender issue aside, let's put that on the side. If you really think about it, the contestants themselves were not that diverse either. There were standout characters - like any season would.
Daniel 4:17
right.
Daytona 4:18
But even if you look at the initial pool of the contestants that actually made it, I can't... I don't really think they were very diverse. Like one thing I noticed from the first episode of season four was, man, I don't think they're unique enough. They don't have that much of a unique style.
Daniel 4:41
That's true.
Daytona 4:41
I'm generalizing here a bit but to just give people who didn't watch the show a general scope of things like once I watched episode one and two, it was like, man 70% of these dudes are so obviously influenced by Lil Tachi.
Daniel 4:58
Yeah...
Daytona 4:59
and why is everyone trying to rap like him. Like, you get what I'm talking about...
Daniel 5:05
The influence is there.
Daytona 5:07
Yeah, it's like, that is not what I go to high school rapper four -For.
Daniel 5:13
That's true.
Daytona 5:13
No pun intended here. Like, you look at like the mainstream scene and you see a bunch of like, nobody rappers trying to, like, imitate Young Thug or Playboi Carti or a little uzi vert, maybe, maybe.
Daniel 5:13
That's true.
Daytona 5:16
I'm like... Why am I? Why am I seeing this on TV again?
Daniel 5:40
Yeah.
Daytona 5:41
Like, I have to deal with that shit on YouTube. And now I have to deal with that shit on TV too? Like, which was really weird, in a sense, because the songs were like... except for a few of them, the songs themselves were not Playboi Carti like,
Daniel 6:00
yeah.
Daytona 6:00
so what happened was, instead of all of different rappers riding on a beat that Playboi Carti would. What happened was a bunch of Playboi Carti's riding on beats that Playboi Carti would never rap over. It was really weird.
Daniel 6:15
That's a good depiction. That's a good depiction.
Daytona 6:17
Yeah, the problem with previous seasons were maybe that there were beats that were so similar.
Daniel 6:24
Yeah.
Daytona 6:26
not always the case. Again, this is just generalizing for for, like the picture, like for the bigger picture here. Um, this season was problem was that there were diverse beats and song concepts,
yeah.
but the people rapping over them didn't have enough differentiation between them.
Daniel 6:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's true because I was looking at the list and there's a whole bunch of different producers so that shows the diversity but...
Daytona 6:54
yeah... yeah, exactly. Like, and even though the songs were diverse, because they were, I'm not taking that away from that, like...
Daniel 7:04
for sure, for sure.
Daytona 7:04
there are various, like, if you look at the influences, like there are samba rhythm influences, like, there are very many different song types here. But most of them, we're looking at a singular direction. Like...
Daniel 7:16
Yeah.
Daytona 7:16
One thing you can take away from these songs is that various rhythms, like various different approaches, but all of them landed, like most of them, like, we're obviously like, geared towards the as poppy as possible.
Daniel 7:33
Yeah.
Daytona 7:34
That was kind of a disappointment for me. Because... if I wanted poppy songs, I would have gone for other auditions.
Daniel 7:46
Facts. Yeah.
Daytona 7:47
Yeah. Like, if you look at the heydays of hip hop auditions like, Show me the money season three, four, high school rapper One, two.
Daniel 7:56
Yeah.
Daytona 7:57
They never went for a poppy direction. I mean,
Daniel 8:02
That's so true.
Daytona 8:02
even if they did was more of a deviation. Like, if you had like three songs in there, like in the like, if you had three songs throughout the whole competition, maybe one of them was really sweet and Poppy and stuff.
Daniel 8:13
True.
Daytona 8:15
This season was like, it was hard to find songs that actually had a more hard hitting presence.
Daniel 8:24
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's really true.
Daytona 8:27
The thing is, this is... I'm not saying that they don't have the artistic freedom to do that. Like that, whatever. But somehow the weird thing is, the more they geared themselves toward mass appeal, they fail to get it, get that mass appeal that they're so going for, it was really interesting. Like, it is true that hip hop has definitely become sweetened little bit more than that.
Daniel 9:03
Yeah.
Daytona 9:03
They did well on the charts... But somehow, this is very interesting, because one thing I when I heard the songs was that, man, this is man, this might not be my taste, but this might actually top the charts. Like I saw a lot of chart potential in these songs but...
Daniel 9:21
interesting.
Daytona 9:22
They just didn't happen. Which makes me think maybe it's not the songs themselves that drove this kind of chart success.
Um, what actually happens in the program is important,
Daniel 9:39
yeah.
Daytona 9:40
and you need to have good stages, but, you need to have good performances. You need to have character establishment, but I think they kind of failed on that, to be to be really honest here. Which is disappointing. Really, right? Like everything about this program was made sure to have as much as chart potential as possible, but...
Daniel 10:11
for sure, for sure.
Daytona 10:12
they never measured up to it. Um, you remember you remember that song that went against Chris Brown Moves?
Daniel 10:20
Oh, yeah, yeah, I do remember that.
Daytona 10:22
I really liked Chris Brown moves. Like that was the song that actually surprised me. Like that. If I have to pick one song off of the whole competition, it is that song.
Daniel 10:32
Wow, that's a I would have not expected you to pick that one.
Daytona 10:35
Like because
Daniel 10:36
to be honest.
Daytona 10:36
I mean that that's a whole another discussion. That's a whole another discussion.
Daniel 10:37
yeah.
Daytona 10:40
But what was the song opposite of Chris Brown Moves? It was that song when two kids were dancing in suspenders.
It was it wasn't? I think it was. Yeah, it was. And I'm, I'm looking at that stage. And it's like, yeah, this is for Tik Tok. This was made for Tik Tok.
Daniel 11:06
Okay, I can see where you're going here.
Daytona 11:07
I'm not shitting on Tik Tok here!
Daniel 11:08
No, of course not.
Daytona 11:09
I'm not shitting on Tik Tok whatsoever, because there's lots of creative content from coming from Tik tok, believe it or not, but I just hate what Tik Tok did to music. Like ever like this, like, when I heard that song, man, this is our version of Drake's Tootsie slide.
Daniel 11:28
Yeah.
Daytona 11:29
yeah, this Oh, my God.
Daniel 11:30
Oh wow, that is a that is an accurate representation.
Daytona 11:34
Even the song like even the dance they did.
Daniel 11:37
Oh man..
Daytona 11:38
It's kind of similar like, left foot once; like, what was.... how did Tootsie Slide go?
Daniel 11:42
I have no idea I've only listened to it a couple times, so I like genuinely forgot about it but....
Daytona 11:48
But succeeding on Tik Tok does not necessarily mean you're going to like top the charts in Korea. It is a different game here. Like maybe in the States, it has a huge influence. But from what I know from Korean, like mass appeal is that, Koreans don't like Tik Tok that much, as much as the people in the states do.
Daniel 12:11
True.
Daytona 12:12
Like, there's millions of different reasons like Korean people don't like Tik Tok as much as people in the Western Hemisphere do.
Daniel 12:19
True.
Daytona 12:20
Yeah, and so when I heard that song like, man...
Daniel 12:26
You almost thought of mainstream right away. You're like, ok...
Daytona 12:29
It's not even mainstream. Because as I just said, Tik Tok is not mainstream.
Daniel 12:33
Oh, that's true.
Daytona 12:34
There are many songs that I thought were mainstream here. That was the song that made me think about Tik Tok.
Daniel 12:40
Makes sense. Okay.
Daytona 12:41
Yeah so I really get what the producers were going for with that song. But when I just saw that man, and immediately when I saw that performance, it was like, man, they did it for the charts. But this there's no way this is getting that much success. And not to be not to sound pretentious here, but it did not do well on the charts, right?
Daniel 13:06
Yeah, I mean, none of the songs were really on the charts anyways, so..
Daytona 13:12
Yeah, exactly. Like, on the other hand, Chris Brown moves was that... that is the kind of song that I want to hear if you're going for a mainstream appeal.
Daniel 13:22
Hmm....
Daytona 13:23
Because, first of all, the hook was not pretentious.
Daniel 13:30
Okay.
Daytona 13:31
Like most of the hooks, not most, I guess, a substantial amount of the hooks for this season was like, haha here's the hook.
Daniel 13:39
Yeah.
Daytona 13:40
Like it was like, it sounded super, like, artificial, like they had to make the hook because it was the hook.
Daniel 13:48
Right.
Daytona 13:49
But this sounded natural. Like...
Daniel 13:52
I could see that.
Daytona 13:53
Like, from what I have seen from not just Korea, but there's the whole trend of hip hop, in general, is that there has to be less distinction between the hook and the verse.
Daniel 14:06
Yeah.
Daytona 14:07
Like that is the flow of like the genre is going for, like you had artists like Young Thug um 21 Savage, and that kind of bled into the Korean scene where the hook should not stand out that much, but still kind of stand out. You have to write that very um...
thin line very well. And I think Chris Brown Moves did that. Chris Brown Moves was the kind of the very few songs that did that. Like, it's catchy. But not like in your face catchy, it's catchy because it actually works your way through like the listener psyche in a way that there's this slight differentiation between the verse and the hook and like It's so hard to explain this because...
Daniel 15:03
I think you explained it well. What I'm getting is that is sound as it sounds as if the song Chris Brown moves, it's not overwhelming. It has the balance.
Daytona 15:13
Exactly. It's not pretentious is what I'm saying. It's very natural, the way you're going to ride the beat like, for example, um, let me kick in a little bit of major knowledge here as English major.
Daniel 15:24
Please, educate us.
Daytona 15:27
If you look at poetry rhyme schemes. There's... well everyone knows the A, B, A, B, C, D, C, D, rhyme scheme, right? Usually, this applies to hip hop in the sense where it's not A B, A, B, but A, A, B, B, like kind of way. And in this new era, where rappers are getting more melodical, like the point where you give inflections and melodies serve what the rhyme did back in the 90s, and 2000s. And one way, I think, is to make the record sound fresh, and not as pretentious is to shake up the rhyme scheme.
Daniel 16:06
True.
Daytona 16:07
like kind of a free verse, For example, instead of rhyming, instead of giving melodies, a like an ADA B structure, maybe go for like a A, A, B, A, and you know what I mean? Put similar melodies in different positions and different bars in so that it is not as predictable.
Daniel 16:28
Yeah.
What Chris Brown Moves managed to do was put the predictable pattern in the hook. But the nature of the verse was not that predictable. Like, it was like, man, if he put the melody here, he's going to put that melody in the next verse in the next bar, but instead,
Daytona 16:47
he did
Daniel 16:48
True.
Daytona 16:48
like two bars later, instead of putting it in the immediate next bar. Like, if you look at the details of that song, and it's very nuanced, it is very... it has all the all the candy in it I guess? But it is hidden, it is not in your face. Here's the candy. It's like, look for the candy kind of thing. And the more I listened to that song, and it's just and they put a really a lot of thought into this.
Daniel 17:17
Yeah, they did.
Daytona 17:20
If you look at the program, like... it's Hwang Se Hyun right? Hwang Se Hyun?
Daniel 17:24
Yeah, my favorite contestant.
Daytona 17:25
Yeah, yeah. Hwang Se Hyun and Jaeha. If you look at the way they made their song, they made the hook in two minutes, right?
Daniel 17:31
Yeah, that's unreal.
Daytona 17:33
Yeah. It's like, but if this is my prediction here, I'm not saying these are facts anymore. Once they got the ingredients for that song, like, once they made the hook, they probably recorded the verses right?
Daniel 17:48
Probably.
Daytona 17:48
It's almost as if they took like, the various components of the song. Like they recorded the thing very easily. Like, they just left ideas here and there, but they were very careful in putting them together.
Daniel 18:06
I can see that, yeah.
Daytona 18:07
That's what I'm getting from this song, the more like, everything is so calculated, but doesn't seem calculated.
Daniel 18:15
Hmm. Okay.
Daytona 18:16
Many other songs during this competition sounded very calculated.
Daniel 18:20
Yeah.
Daytona 18:22
Like, he's going to rhyme here and he's going to put the melody here and most of the times in one that way that I expected. And if it is too calculated, people are not going to remember it.
Daniel 18:37
That's true. That's true.
Daytona 18:39
Yeah, the more predictable you are like, like that I think that is the art of pop music. You need to be predictable, but not too predictable. We need to be fresh, but not too fresh.
Daniel 18:53
That's true.
Daytona 18:54
Yeah, especially if you're looking for chart music.
Daniel 18:58
Yeah, for sure.
Daytona 18:59
Yeah, so Chris Brown Moves did that but not many other teams did, in my opinion.
Daniel 19:06
For sure. And for me, I think with this overall you know season I completely agree with you it to me even though it kind of progressed in the latter part I still think at the end of the day it felt very dry it felt very underwhelming it almost seems as if no one really gave it their all even though I know they give their all but it just that energy there's that this kind of tone and this atmosphere of just it's very seldom it's very, you know, bland, I would say.
Daytona 19:42
Actually I don't think they did. I think you're right Daniel. Um, there are people that gave their all,
For sure, no I agree.
Yeah, there are people that didn't gave their all, like give their all but I don't blame them. Because, like, one of the controversies I saw was that The Quiett and Yumdda doesn't do shit. That's Yeah, there was controversy about this, like, what are they fucking doing? But if you think about it right after the show ended, they put out a song together. You saw that album, right?
Daniel 20:22
Yeah, the loser rap album?
Daytona 20:24
Yeah, yeah. That's easily. That's the game. That's the kind of game that The Quiett and the Yumdda's playing here.
Daniel 20:32
Yeah, I wasn't surprised by this.
Daytona 20:35
Actually. Yeah. I mean, that is the best you can get out of this. Like, personally I liked it because they didn't do shit in a sense. Like, quote on quote, didn't do shit. It's like, I think at some point, The Quiett realized this season is going to measure to bad seasons.
Daniel 20:58
Oh, no. I mean, just if you've looked at him throughout the show, he just didn't seem interested at all. And yeah, if you look at Yumdda he was just, okay, let's just, let's just do what we need to do.
Daytona 21:10
Very easy going. Almost as if they kind of knew that this season was already botched from the first like few episodes, it's like...
Daniel 21:19
I think they gave up I would say.
Daytona 21:21
you know, I think their mentality was this. It was like, you know what? I'm getting the few gems out of this, like the few people that actually are unique. Getting them out and making them make whatever music they want to.
Daniel 21:36
True, yeah.
Daytona 21:36
Because even if they're going for mass appeal, we kind of knew like, this isn't going to do well on the charts anyway, because there is so much less cloud on the show itself.
Daniel 21:46
Yeah, that's true.
Daytona 21:47
So, if you look at team Daytona's... I'm not getting biased on Daytona because of the name by the way.
Daniel 21:54
Oh, for sure.
Daytona 21:55
I actually have been accused a little bit about this. But no, that is not the case. There are very weird songs that came out in team Daytona.
Daniel 22:03
Dude... That's where I was going to kind of like refer... I was like, What in the world? Are we getting out of this team? It's so them, you know?
Daytona 22:12
Yeah, they just, they knew that. I think this is my prediction - 100% my prediction by the way that I'm not saying these are the facts in any way, shape or form. But, The Quiett especially The Quiett Yumdda as well, but especially The Quiett has always been known in the Korean hip hop scene as being the mastermind. Like...
Daniel 22:31
Yeah.
Daytona 22:32
like you think you're doing he's doing something wrong, but he always turns out he's the right guy.
Daniel 22:38
True.
Daytona 22:39
When people when he started out Illionaire Records people were like, what this is not this is not where you're supposed to go. Where is the lyrical miracle Pete Rock 90's shit Why are you doing this dumbass other bullshit. And it turns out he was right. Illionaire changed the culture.
Daniel 22:54
Oh yeah, for sure.
Daytona 22:55
The little moves he make I think like, every time he does something, it's like, he gets hated on.
Daniel 23:03
Hmm.
Daytona 23:04
But somehow he turns out to be the right person in the end.
Daniel 23:07
That's true. No, that's that's facts right there.
Daytona 23:10
Yeah...
What I'm talking about here is I don't think audition programs are what do you call it? I don't think the best the rapper can do out of those auditions is to make hit songs anymore. I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot. If you look at Show Me The Money nine the songs that actually do well are VVS and On Air. Those two songs...
And also Lil Boi's song with Giriboy Tomorrow.
Oh, wait, no, no, no I confused On Air with Tomorrow, I think because On Air went up the charts and I think it fell down again. The song with Zion.T and Yumdda - and that was..
Daniel 24:09
Oh, Credit.
Daytona 24:10
Yeah. Oh, sorry, sorry, Credit, Credit. The song that really did well was VVS and Credit.
Daniel 24:17
mmm...Yeah.
Daytona 24:17
The other songs got out of the chart very quickly. Like they fail - like they fell out at the top 10 really fast fell out at the top 20-30 really fast. The songs that actually really did well, were these two songs. Back in the days, all of the songs like in Show Me The Money five, for example, like all of the songs hit the charts, like top 10 everywhere like it was everywhere. And that fell and fell and fell and really hit the most low point in Show Me The Money season eight - none of the songs charted.
Daniel 24:51
Oh yeah.
Daytona 24:52
So everyone thought, man, Show me the money nine is going to be a failure again. And it was not exactly the failure it was, if you look back at it. But it wasn't like the greatest shit ever either.
Daniel 25:05
No.
Daytona 25:06
Yeah. So it's like half fluke and a half success. High School season High School Rapper season four... talking from a purely commodity standpoint was a total failure.
Daniel 25:20
Yeah for sure.
Daytona 25:21
This is the Show Me The Money eight of high school rapper franchise.
Daniel 25:24
That's where I was gonna go because the concept seemed very aligned with one another because the the theme just fell very a trap you know, it was all trap but also, you know there's big name contestants in high school rapper but just because you have big name artists doesn't mean the show's gonna pan out to be successful. Right? so...
Daytona 25:46
Like the hottest thing about this show was the producers.
Daniel 25:50
For sure. Yeah, that's the only thing.
Daytona 25:53
That is not a good thing.
Daniel 25:55
That... Yeah that's true. There was no balance I would say it was one way or the other. It was either the producers or the artists but to be honest, it was mostly the producers and it fell flat like you were mentioning.
Daytona 26:11
Yeah and...
like the music that H1ghr took out...H1ghr, Ambition Musik, like Way Ched and Changmo and SsamD and Loco
Daniel 26:29
Oh, Team AOMG?
Daytona 26:31
Team AOMG, yeah. Like the way these three teams went, and the way Daytona went was so different.
Daniel 26:40
Yeah.
Daytona 26:40
Like, there's a certain logic to how the other three went. Maybe very similar songs with his very minor differences. Minor distinct differences but in the same direction.
Daniel 26:56
Hmm.
Daytona 26:56
Daytona team didn't have a direction at all in my opinion.
Daniel 27:00
No, yeah I agree.
Daytona 27:01
Yeah, like Jaeha put out a song that was completely rock inspire. Chu eligion was basically like 20 like 2010 Okasian stuff.
Daniel 27:12
Oh man. I don't like that one.
Daytona 27:15
Like, look, ever since I heard that song I was like, Man, this, like, this is so different from the other songs. This doesn't this didn't have any kind of calculation behind. Like, like, I don't I have problems with the song. But at least it was vastly different from what the other people were doing.
Daniel 27:39
Yeah, that's true.
Daytona 27:40
In that sense, I think Daytona really did the right thing here. Because if you're not going to chart you might as well make whatever song you want to.
Daniel 27:52
That's so true.
Daytona 27:53
Right?
Daniel 27:54
That's so true.
Daytona 27:54
and the thing is, a lot of people in the Korean hip hop community. I don't know about mass appeal here. I'm talking strictly about like Korean hip hop community. People were like, damn, this reminds me so much of Okasian and people actually like that. That cloud rap, because that is that the cloud rap that Chu does is not exactly the most trendy rap anymore. Maybe it was trendy back in like 2010 or 2011. Like...
Daniel 27:56
But not right now.
Daytona 27:57
When... Yeah, like when ASAP Rocky was dropping his mixtape and stuff like that. So in a sense, people were really impressed by Chu.
And..
I think that ensures a better future.
Daniel 28:38
Makes sense - yeah.
Daytona 28:39
Like, at least people really are paying attention to your music. Because with the exception of already, like rappers that already have a major label backing them, like for example, Trade L and D.ark.
Daniel 28:55
Yeah.
Daytona 28:56
and idol rappers who are not exactly going to have a rapper career afterwards. All of the other rappers, what I got from this was I listened to H1ghr Music stuff instead of their stuff. Like this is H1ghr Music, music. This is AOMG type of music. But my point is, why would I listen to these songs when they're already better at AOMG songs. You know what I mean?
Daniel 29:24
Yeah.
Daytona 29:25
Like, not to be... oh right yeah. Who am I kidding? I am being offensive here.
Daniel 29:31
No, you're not.
Daytona 29:33
I would rather listen to Iffy than any of these songs. You know what I mean?
Daniel 29:39
Wow.
Daytona 29:40
If you're going for the same direction, you might you need to make the song better.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, for example, a mainstream here. Mainstream analogy here like one of the two hottest rappers in the states are right now - Lil Baby and Gunna right?
Daniel 30:03
Mhmm.
Daytona 30:04
I don't like Gunna's music.
Daniel 30:06
Same here. No, I don't like it either.
Daytona 30:08
And the reason is because I don't like his style. I just think rather than listening to a Gunna song I would pick up a Young Thug project.
Hmm...
Like it's the same thing here like there's lots of singing raps and that is a style that requires technicality. I'm not saying that the people here in the contestants were talentless. But if I want to say here... Who was that? That "Work" song the the guy who did that Tik Tok song that I just mentioned... Park Hyun Jin can sing.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah,
For sure.
he hits the right notes that is actually sort of refreshing. Because there are many singing rappers that can't even hit the right notes. There are terrible singing rappers all over soundcloud. At least what I got from him was that damn the kid can actually sing.
Daniel 31:02
Hmm.
Daytona 31:03
But when I'm listening to that I'm like, I would rather listen to a Jay Park song.
I hear you I hear you.
You have a similar type of production. You have all that sweet likes, like sweets, like gentle kind of beats. I would rather listen to every any song off of "Everything You Wanted" or maybe even his like past projects, like maybe even Loco songs too. There's some Loco songs that can do that. So like, I want to hear what the contestants have to offer rather than what the producers have to offer. And the best songs are a perfect merge of both of them. Like you have the contestant flavor and the producer flavors coming together. That's what great Show Me The Money seasons have always been able to do. Like... Bewhy was on team AOMG right? Bewhy songs didn't sound like a AOMG ripoffs.
Daniel 32:07
No, they were very original, I would say.
Daytona 32:09
Yeah, um like, fuck, when C Jamm was on Team YG, they didn't sound like G Dragon songs. I wanted that kind of dynamic. I always look for that kind of dynamic. But it's as if the producers overpowered the contestants this season. And that is not a good sign because it means there's not enough uniqueness within the contestants. Which means the producers had to take over.
Daniel 32:44
That's true.
Daytona 32:45
Like, for example, you remember "Day Day" the song for Bewhy right?
Daniel 32:50
That very funky hip hop.
Daytona 32:52
Yeah.
Daniel 32:53
Yeah, it was great.
Daytona 32:54
But because like it was a very funky and a little bit of it was the typical Gray beat. But the way Bewhy was rhyming over that made it so fresh. Like the way he was rhyming so unconventionally, over such a mass appeal appealing song made it into a very fresh dynamic which what gave which is what actually gave the song chart appeal. Because it was familiar, but not that familiar. That's true. These songs sounded way too familiar.
Daniel 33:31
Yeah, it almost felt...
Daytona 33:32
Way too familiar.
Daniel 33:33
It almost felt very recycled.
Daytona 33:35
Yeah. This sounds like a great b-cut. This is like... not b-cut, b-sides. You know what I mean? I This was so not the direction I wanted. I wanted actual people with artistic identity coming out in high school rapper.
Daniel 34:00
That's true. Yeah.
Daytona 34:01
Haon had an artistic direction. Vinxen had an artistic direction.
Daniel 34:06
Very underrated.
Daytona 34:07
Yang Hong Won had an artistic direction. Choi Ha Min had an artistic direction. Soko Domo had an artistic direction. Tom?? had an artistic direction in his mind an artistic vision in his mind. The only instances I got from this competition was team Daytona.
Daniel 34:32
Yeah.
Daytona 34:33
The rappers on Team Daytona actually had a vision of what kind of music they want to do. Another case was on another song I enjoyed that similar perspective was the song with Huh Won Hyuk "Meu Tempo"
Daniel 34:52
Oh yeah with featuring Bibi.
Daytona 34:55
Yeah,
Daniel 34:55
yeah,
Daytona 34:56
That was actually fresh.
Daniel 34:57
That was very good.
Daytona 34:58
Yeah, there was a samba rhythm to it. And its like huh, this is something I actually never heard about.
Daniel 35:04
It brought out that world culture right? you know that
Daytona 35:07
yeah exactly..
Daniel 35:07
Brazilian sound. So I appreciated that.
Daytona 35:10
A little bit of dance hall kind of influence. And I know dancehall has been kind of like run to the death in the States, but it has it here. So it's like, oh, someone is actually doing this in Korea, that's interesting. And there was this song with Yo Boy and Noh Yoon Ha called, "Nogahjulgae".
Daniel 35:30
Oh, that was really good.
Daytona 35:31
Yeah, that was good. Um, like, the melody was really catchy. And the way they like went through that song was really interesting. Like, it had a very running three, four rhythm. Like, it wasn't the typical boom bap beat, but it wasn't trap either. And the melody was catchy. The performance was actually kind of like cinematic. I really liked that perspective about it. And there are a couple of flukes here and there. Not fluke, but some exceptions here and there.
But that was basically...
Daniel 36:13
That's all you got.
Daytona 36:13
That was it. I don't know how to put it better. Yeah..
Daniel 36:18
No, I
know, I kind of fall on your back as well. There wasn't that many tracks that I really enjoyed. And literally the only three tracks that I really enjoyed was "Elizabeth" it was from team Daytona. I really enjoyed "Self Check" with featuring Nucksal by Noh Yoon Ha.
Daytona 36:38
Oh, yeah.
Daniel 36:39
That one was fire. And then I would say even "Naro" by Lee Sang Jae featuring Simon, Dominic and Loco. I mean, I guess that's just my taste, because I'm very...
Daytona 36:54
Everyone has different tastes.
Daniel 36:55
Just because I like that kind of basic, just very kind of catchy but, you know, honestly, just looking at and hearing at all the other songs, it just didn't match up to the previous seasons. I mean, yeah. I love the diversity with the producers and everything. But at the end of the day, it almost seemed as if everything was recycled and it didn't really feel like a high school rapper.
Daytona 37:19
Yeah. It's so calculated.
Daniel 37:21
Yeah,
Daytona 37:22
Like, I can't understand if this was a Show Me The Money season. Because if you look at Show Me The Money, like, it's usually established artists that are coming out here. We know what kind of music they make before we actually see them on the show. Like we can look it up into streaming platforms. There are not many rappers that does do that in high school rapper, right? because they're not established.
Daniel 37:47
No.
Daytona 37:48
not being adults yet. At least in most of the cases. And it all comes down to how not that much of a unique contestant pool we had, like it was very samey samey. I get Lil Tachi is a great rapper everyone, but people need to stop biting in that.
Daniel 38:13
Yeah.
Daytona 38:14
Seriously, it's like...
Daniel 38:16
Big name doesn't always translate into big success, right?
Daytona 38:20
Yeah, homogenizing like the genre being homogenized is not good, in any era, in any history of music. Like the sound becoming so what do you call it umm samey. Nah I don't... I want to use another some other word than samey.
Daniel 38:43
It's very... repetitive?
Daytona 38:47
Nah, it's not quite that. I think homogenized is the right thing to say. Like in any era, that was not a good symptom. Like we've seen movements, like if you look at like pop music history, entire movements died out because sound was getting homogenized. Yeah, not just hip hop, like smooth jazz killed jazz - basically.
Daniel 39:12
true.
Daytona 39:15
Grunge got tired after a while - grunge music. Nu metal died the same way oh my god, at least. I really hate to sound like the old guy in the room here. But this made me kind of doubt the teenagers. Man, you need some sense of artistic direction people like just because you get on a AOMG beat, doesn't mean that you're automatically going to top the charts.
Daniel 39:48
Yeah that's true.
Daytona 39:48
The reason AOMG people are so successful artistically and commercially is because their first first they are good rappers in the first place.
Daniel 39:58
Yeah.
Daytona 39:59
Just because you got a shiny or some shiny piano keys on a song, and some gentle guitars doesn't automatically propel you to the top of the charts. I don't even blame the producers here like...
Daytona 40:19
They gave like what they think was going to work because it had work for themselves and they did the best of what they have. You can’t suddenly make the contestants rap better right?
Daniel 40:33
That’s true, that’s true.
Daytona 40:34
You can’t force like… you can’t force artistic maturity. You can’t force… “Be unique b****.” You can’t say that right?
Daniel 40:45
That’s true.
40:46-40:59 Daytona: Yeah, exactly. In that sense, it was just...like from the start like episode one I was like, oh no… oh no this is not… yeah.
40:56-41:00 Daniel: Yeah I kind of had the same atmosphere to that.
41:01-41:05 Daytona: Umm actually I liked YLN Foreign too.
41:06 Daniel: Oh yeah, he was good too.
41:07-41:18 Daytona: I didn't have high hopes for him but as the show progressed, he was the one of the few people that actually made some hard hitting hip-hop. Like songs like “DNA” and stuff.
41:19-41:20 Daniel: Oh, that was fire. That was fire.
41:20-41:29 Daytona: I mean like episode one I’m sure it’s going to like rub a lot of the foreign fans wrong way. Like he did the c-walk and stuff like that and it was like nahhhh… what are you doing?
41:30 Daniel: Yeah.
41:31-41:42 Daytona: Like especially… I mean that’s a whole another discussion but I think some foreign fans will take issue with that - him doing the c-walk and stuff like that.
41:38-41:40 Daniel: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised by that.
41:43-41:55 Daytona: Man what are you doing man? And then… but it’s true that he was a very capable rapper in the show. Like when he was killing that Kendrick beat, that “Backseat Freestyle” beat, man! The dude could really rap!
41:56 Daniel: Yeah.
41:57-42:05 Daytona: Yeah, Yeah. That’s what I’m looking for and he didn't make it that far in the competition from what I remember right?
42:06-42:11 Daniel: Yeah, he didn't go to the finals. I think he stopped at the semi’s and then got eliminated.
42:12-42:18 Daytona: Like…. Hmmm…. Where’s the “YGGR,” like where’s the “Turtle Ship”?
42:19 Daniel: Yeah…
42:20-42:25 Daytona: Like… “Turtle Ship,” that s*** changed the game - like “YGGR” too but...
42:26 Daniel: Yeah.
42:29-42:40 Daytona: There has to be a second “Turtle Ship” and in a sense there was… Like there has to be a second forever. Like there has to be a second “Turtle Ship.” Like there has to be a second “YGGR”; but were not seeing that anymore.
42:40 Daniel: Yeah.
42:41-42:46Daytona: And people say things like the game changed - which in a sense is true.
42:47 Daniel: Yeah.
42:48-42:56 Daytona: But it’s also true that they’re not doing as well as on the charts or having that kind of impact.
42:57-42:59 Daytona: There has been a lot of controversy.
43:00 Daniel: For sure.
43:01-43:07 Daytona: A lot of controversy regarding the season like.. There was something with Pluma I think.
43:08 Daniel: Yeah
43:09-44:08 Daytona: Like editing problems again. Ummm like… ughh… I’m not sure as I… I know i’m saying this a lot. I know that a lot of the listeners of this podcast might be sick of me saying this again and again, we have to move past these audition programs; we really have to. The more we rely on this, the more it becomes a crutch we will never learn how to walk. We will never learn how to fly. It’s just so frustrating. The problem is like… I was actually shocked by this. When I talk to people that are way younger, that are actual like hip-hop fans, they think going through on a audition is part of the culture.
44:09-44:10 Daniel: Hmm, interesting.
44:11-44:58 Daytona: That is very dangerous. This fact that hip hop was about not caring about other peoples approval, doing whatever s*** you want to on a track, saying that you’re the f****ing best because you believed in it, that is what hip hop was about. That is what hip hop is still about. But if somehow, earning someones approval and I’m not talking about producers here… I’m talking about the masses. The fact that you have to earn the approval of the masses… to even start at this game.. Is just goes against what culture is.. What this culture was about.
44:59 Daniel: hmm.
44:59-45:58 Daytona: This culture started from a band of misfits that said f*** society. Not in the sense like f*** society as like f*** the government. No no no, I’m talking about the general like, various shackles that society has to offer. We started off saying f*** you to that. But somehow as I see this game changing, it has been more about who fits into that shackle best. It’s like being the best servant. This game has never been about being the best servant to the masses. We have compromised a lot of our values from coming here. And we can’t say that was a bad decision because we really did benefit a lot from that. But it is time to find a balance right now. We had nine, NINE auditions from the same franchise.
46:00 Daniel: Can you believe that?
46:01-46:02 Daytona: And the spin-off we had four.
46:02 Daniel: Yeah.
46:03-46:07 Daytona: And in another spin-off, I think Unpretty Rapstar was until season two right?
46:08 Daniel: I think so.
46:08 Daytona: Was it three?
46:09-46:10 Daniel: Season two or three.
46:11-46:14 Daytona: Yeah. We had more than 10 audition programs.
46:15-46:16 Daniel: Yeah. (laughs).
46:16-46:40 Daytona: This s*** needs to stop sometime. Like there’s a great interview by The Quiett that says, “Someday we will have to go back to Hongdae. We will have to go back to the fields where we sowed our first seeds because that is the very basis of what this culture stands on.” The masses are not going to love us forever.
46:41-46:42 Daniel: That’s true. That’s true.
46:43-46:54 Daytona: And we have been at this game for at least 20 years right now - at the least. Like Dynamic Duo came out in the 2000’s right?
46:55-46:56 Daniel: Yeah, as CB Mass.
46:56-47:10 Daytona: Yeah mass appeal. Like not their song I mean not their album title. I mean like when we started giving a f*** about mass appeal around the 2000’s. We’re at this game for about 20 years.
47:11-47:13 Daniel: Hmm, I hear ya.
47:13-47:14 Daytona: It’s time to go back.
47:15 Daniel: I hear ya.
47:15-47:24 Daytona: It’s time to… It’s time to actually look and see what this culture was all about. Success isnt everything.
47:25 Daniel: Yeah, that’s true.
47:25-47:37 Daytona: Success came from some kind of foundation and if that foundation falls, the success that is on top of that foundation, is bound to come burning down at some point.
47:38 Daniel: Yeah.
47:39-48:25 Daytona: Give a f*** about the foundation is all I’m saying. The more I see audition programs like fail... like this, it’s as if maybe the pie we kept expanding for the past 10 years, maybe it’s really starting to collapse. And there hasn’t been enough investment in the actual culture that people are supporting. Like... it’s kind of like a bubble in a sense. I don’t want to use this word because it is not entirely a bubble. You get what I’m talking about here right?
48:27 Daniel: Yeah.
48:28-48:38 Daytona: It’s just that like the future is bleak. Everytime I see auditions fail, I don’t feel good because I really want them to succeed.
48:38 Daniel: I hear ya.
48:39-49:01 Daytona: And by them failing, it just makes us as a hip-hop fan it just makes me think did we really do enough for the foundation. Like if mainstream appeal is failing like this, the more we have to regret what we have kind of like fail to establish in the base.
49:02-49:03 Daniel: I hear ya.
49:03-49:04 Daytona: Yeah.
49:05-49:31 Daniel: It’s a tough road. It’s a tough industry and especially with you know with all these audition programs and you know I think a lot of the times these kids or these teenagers they kind of see this as a way to get recognition because again, you know how Korea is a conservative country and you know how their parents are like “oh no hip hop is not a job, it’s just more of a hobby.”
49:31 Daytona: yeah…
49:34-50:05 Daniel: And look I think it is a great opportunity for them to a certain extent but like you said if you go too far, it can become toxic and unhealthy so. You know we just hope that you know there is a balance moving forward and these people can take away with this season not being you know being too successful, I hope that you know if they were to somehow bring season five that they’re able to learn and take away..
50:06-50:08 Daytona: yeah, they have a lot to learn from their mistakes of this season.
50:08-50:09 Daniel: For sure
50:09-50:11Daytona: They have to do better man… seriously..
50:12-50:24 Daniel: Yeah...so as we slowly begin to wrap up our show, as usual any artists or tracks that you’re currently listening to and would like to share or recommend to our listeners?
50:26- Daytona: Since were talking about auditions, umm let’s say High School Rapper actually managed to the first, two seasons I talked about how they actually managed to establish a few artists career right? Unofficial Boy recently put out an album. Some of you might remember him as “Lee Su Rin” from the Dickids crew
50:55 Daniel: Ok, I remember him
50:56-51:10 Daytona: Yeah, he’s on fire these days! Last year he had a great album. This year he put out another album which is great. He has a unique blend of like melodical s*** with trap music.
51:10-51:11 Daniel: Yeah.
51:11-51:27 Daytona: But he does it in a way that is so indulged I guess. It’s a very interesting album like very weird choices. On some tracks like he’s just riffing on like beatboxing and stuff.
51:27-51:28 Daniel: Hmmm.. Interesting
51:29-51:40 Daytona: Yeah, but it’s super melodical as well. It’s really catchy. There’s a song called, “MMM” featuring Oceanfromtheblue.
51:40-51:41 Daniel: Oh Ok
51:42-51:48 Daytona: Yeah, Unofficial Boy “MMM” featuring Oceanfromtheblue. This is great.
51:47 Daniel: For sure.
51:48-51:59 Daytona: This is great track. Sweet, sensual, still technical. Yeah just check the entire album out but this is… This is actually the title song so.
52:00 Daniel: For sure.
52:01-52:15 Daytona: Yeah. Check this out if you like this song, check out the whole album. It’s very diverse, super technical, super catchy, melodical, well thought out, well structured, everything I look for in an album. It’s here so..
52:15-52:16 Daniel: For sure
52:17 - 52:31 Daniel: So for me, you know I was kind of thinking about our last episode where we talk about AREA and Beenzino to BANA and you mentioned about Ourealgoat and E-Sens.
52:31 Daytona: Oh Yeah.
52:33-52:43 Daniel: And I went back that following day and I started listening to Ourealgoat and I was like dude!! This kid is unreal! He’s super talented! And…
52:43 Daytona: Yes
52:43-52:52 Daniel: And then I was also listening to E-Sens’s music and I just love that “Stranger” album by E-Sens.
52:52-52:54 Daytona: Yeah! That was a great album.
52:52-53:48 Daniel: It’s so different from his previous album and I was going back and forth on what to select because both are great artists. One’s an upcoming artist, and one’s an already established legendary and I couldn’t help but to pass up on E-Sens man. Like I just had to select E-Sens. So I picked E-Sens’s song called, “Radar” featuring Kim Ximya off of the “Stranger” album. Yeah dude…. Yo! The only reason why I chose this is because for people who listen to E-Sens’s music, you know that his original or preferred style is like that boom bap. You know what I mean? That very old school sounding. But when he came out with, “Stranger,” he tapped into something that is very
53:47-53:48 Daytona: Primal.
53:48-54:06 Daniel: Yeah! Primal but just also like woah wait, E-Sens just.. Is he going into this trap style kind of? In some ways? And I was like, I got to listen to this because this could be something very new that you know E-Sens might be good at.
54:05-54:09 Daytona: He sounded very hungry on that album.
54:09-54:10 Daniel: Oh yeah for sure and..
54:10-54:22 Daytona: Like Anecdote, was more like self-reflection kind of biographical cinematic. This was like, I’m going to show you why I’m called the best rapper in Korean hip-hop.
54:23-54:39 Daniel: Yeah, and I was listening to all of the songs in the album and dude, “Radar” was not only just addicting but it was lyrically strong for what it was, for you know like a typical trap song. It was like woah.. This was insane.
54:40-54:43 Daytona: He is the best lyricist. He is called the best lyricist.
54:44-55:44 Daniel: I’m not surprised by that and when I heard.. Dude, that’s like literally a perfect comparison and dude that “Radar” song featuring Kim Ximya with that hook, I was like yo this is out of this world and I think from the day I selected to listen to that song, I might’ve at least listened 20 times, just because that’s how good the song was. So for people who do not know E-Sens or have listened to E-Sens music, and if you’re that listener who likes that traps stuff but with strong lyrics, I highly recommend you listening to E-Sens’s 2019 “Stranger” and specifically, “Radar” featuring Kim Ximya. I highly recommend it. I wasn't a big fan of E-Sens when I started listening to K hip hop but when I started listening to “The Anecdote,” The Anecdote right?
54:46-54:48 Daytona: A lot of people call him the Nas of Korean hip hop.
55:45 Daytona: Yeah.
55:45-55:54 Daniel: Yo…. ever since that album, I instantly fell in love with his music. The man is insane.
55:55-56:00 Daytona: Yeah, he is. He’s actually my favorite rapper so I immediately know what you’re talking about.
56:00-56:25 Daniel: Exactly. I just… I was like wow! The production on all of his songs especially “Radar” man. FRNK… Dude FRNK is ridiculously talented dude! That guy is so unique with beat selection and beat making. I mean it’s like.. Kind of like futuristic hip hop. Like the beats that he’s making is just very experimental but at the same time it kind of caters to the audience.
56:26-56:47 Daytona: It’s like super minimalistic - that album. It reminded me a lot of like TDE’s stuff (Top Dawg Entertainment). Like the early Jay Rock albums or Schoolboy Q’s albums like those… that kind of trendy like.. Very pristine but something in there kind of beats. yeah..
56:48-56:57 Daniel: So, for those that you know don’t know E-Sens for starters, I highly recommend “Radar” featuring Kim Ximya.
56:58-57:04 Daytona: Like.. yeah.. Putting on top of that, people who are listening to E-Sens I really recommend you listen to it with the lyrics.
57:05-57:07 Daniel: Yeah, Oh Yeah! 100 percent!
57:07-58:30 Daytona: E-Sens is one of those rappers like that rarely uses English. Not.. yeah.. I mean he uses English quite a lot of the times, but he’s usually just for like slang terms like hip-hop slang. You know what I mean? Like almost all of his lyrics are composed in Korean and because like one thing about E-Sens is that if you… how do you call it? The way you appreciate his music is going to change in how well you’re versed in Korean. Like for example, like if you’re a person who doesn’t know English let’s say, your going to be gravitated toward more toward let’s say Kanye than a Common or a Nas. You know what I mean? You are going to be attracted more toward Young Thug or Future than you are to Kendrick. And, I think that’s…. That’s important to take in. Like E-Sens is regarded as the most lyrical individual. He’s the quintessential lyricist. He is the standard when it comes to lyricism in Korean hip hop so… If you’re listening to him, make sure to check the lyrics.
57:13-57:16 Daniel: Oh! Dude! I don’t think he uses English at all like very little.
58:31-59:02 Daniel: All Right well that’s all the time we have for today, but please do comment and let us know what you think about the topics we went over today. And if you enjoyed today’s episode, please go and subscribe to our podcast on all streaming platforms, and please give us that five star rating. If you want more K hip hop contents, go check out Daytona’s instagram at myk_daytona for K hip hop album reviews and also follow our social media page at seoul_therapy. Thank You guys so much, and see you guys next time! Peace!
Source
“[P&Q 국힙상담소] EP03 #딥플로우 (Deepflow).” YouTube, uploaded by Stone Music Entertainment, 31 May 2019, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDyqTcxlmKQ&t=1043s