Evolution of AI in the Influencer Marketing Ecosystem with Corbett Drummey

There was a lot of things going on with all things related to AI , with digital PR , with link building , and so went on and found a great guest for you that we're going to be talking about AI , influencer marketing and that ecosystem and what's going to impact it . I know everybody's worried about AI . Got a lot of really cool stuff .

I'm going to do a training in a couple of weeks as we move into the new year . Please go check out MatthewBertramcom if you're interested in kind of coaching , EWR Digital if you're looking for your business needs marketing . What I'm seeing in some enterprise level data is there's not a lot of crossover between our agency and the podcast .

So I think a lot of podcast listeners are not aware that we've been running an agency for 25 years and have clients , small and large , and are good at everything from search marketing , web design etc . So please go check that out , but let's just jump right into it . I got Corbett Drumming with me today . He's been involved in this space for a long time .

He's also part of White Combinator . Corbett , you were introduced to me from my network , somebody that I should definitely connect with . I want you to introduce yourself I think you could do it better than me to the audience and then we can jump into it .

I had co -founded a company called Popular Pays , an influencer and creator marketing platform , about a decade ago , and then two years ago we were acquired by Lightrix , who a lot of people know because of the popular photo and video editing apps they've made , such as Facetune , photoleap and VideoLeap .

We were their first kind of B2B product acquisition and then since then in the last year , I've been focused on the AI video platform called LTX Studio , so we've been building a platform there , as well as an underlying foundational video model that powers it .

So there's a lot we can touch on , kind of where ai intersects with content creation and influencer marketing . But , yeah , happy to follow wherever it might go , whatever it might be interesting for your audience yeah .

Listening to some of the Google people out there talking about AI stuff is , I mean , now there's copyright issues and you know that's going to be addressed at a bigger level from training the AIs and that sort of thing . But the images that are created and the videos that are created are unique , right .

So if we focus on SEO for a minute and understand how the search engines are looking at everything , they're looking at this stuff as completely unique . So , over even stock or stock video or something like that , AI gets a win . Right , it gets a win .

Also , the tools like MidJourney and all the other things that are going on are getting much , much better , right , and so you've got completely unique content . You can start to kind of build out themes . There's ways to maximize productivity from a graphic design standpoint to help brands build .

You know , you're able to take , you know , blogs and turn them into videos , like you know , Google released their kind of podcast thing like there's there's so much going on and you know , every podcast that I've listened to or person I've interacted with , they're all worried about AI , right , and you know , I think that some people should be right and one of the

stories that I actually shared is I had a content manager probably about the time ChatGVG came around and she was like no AI , right , no AI .

And there's a lot of companies out that are are using um tools and and they're like you know , enterprise level tools and they're like if it's 99 human writing one percent ai , it's like no , go back and then you're having to play with the content of like this was human written , but , um , you know , there there are certain ways that are writing happens .

That is going to show up as , as ai is like kind of false positives to to a certain degree , and I just don't think people can get away from it . And so , you know , the conversation started to become okay , you're not going to be replaced by AI immediately .

You're going to be replaced by people using AI , right , and that was kind of the kind of intersection of like hey , we're going this direction and we're going to lean into it and we're going to be cutting edge with what's going on and we're going to certainly follow the Google guidelines .

We're going to do all these things , but we need to embrace this because the world's changing , just kind of like money's changing with crypto , whatever , like the world is moving forward and you need to move forward with it , because you're going to be replaced by people that are leveraging . Well , now there's this like absolute noise proliferation bots .

I mean , what's real , what's not ? Like we're getting into a real murky world and I think it's caused anxiety for a lot of people out there , think it's caused anxiety for a lot of people out there .

So I would love to just kind of hear your perspective of the AI kind of evolution within the influencer marketing ecosystem , to kind of bring those together , and then that could spawn a couple other questions and conversations . But we got AI over here , we got influence over here . I mean these two things are colliding . What does that look like ?

What are the things you're seeing ? What are the things that you're concerned about ? Just to kind of set the table for everyone .

Another is this colliding industry , especially because one thing I think is worth talking about is that , um , really what's unique about marketing and content creation is ai has impacted our space first and hardest , compared to almost anything out there . Yes , ai will change everything , ranging from finance , healthcare , etc .

But the very first applications were in content creation . So , um , we've had to deal with that as an industry earlier and like , harder than everyone else has , and so we've seen that this can mean a few things . Number one AI is changing how content is being created in the first place . So how , like the tools that creators use and marketers use .

That's one big pillar . Another is , you know , this element of displacement , and people are worried if it will . You know , take what , take their livelihood , and that might be a creator displaced , might be a marketer .

I do agree with you that in general , I think you should be worried more about people using AI than just AI by itself , but I , and then the a third part of that is rights usage and worries around that whether that's creators worried about worrying about their art and likelihood , livelihood or about , like brands , wondering what is brand safe to use .

There's some huge pillars here and interestingly we've had a perspective across all of them because we make tools for creators and marketers . We've built foundational models . We know we've been operating industry so we've kind of had a front row seat to all those different pillars of topics so .

Okay , I mean , there was a lot of different segments on the tracks , on on AI , but it was really like what was the language model trained on ? and it was really talking about kind of taking your own data , creating those kind of subsets and the human kind of quality of creativity .

Now , I think images I've seen the stuff that AI has done and it blows me away Creativity standpoint . Now , on the content side of things , I mean , you've got to still figure out well , what , what are people interested in , what are people talking about ?

Now , a lot of that's going to start to get automated and turned out and it's really like how big is the inventory online as far as like what , what you're talking about ? But but I think that that's why Google even added the to the eat , the experience component , right .

So it's like yo , you talking about what you did and what your experiences with , and interjecting that human component , uh , in that , I think is is really quite , quite critical . But I mean , what are , what are you seeing ? If you're like you know people are using content .

I mean , certainly people were talking about using it to create topics , but now ais are are doing the full boat , right , like they're doing the heavy lifting , and then even you got stuff .

I I think it's interesting , like if I was in school today , like how do you grade tests , how do you figure out like information , like it think it's interesting , like if I was in school today . Like how do you grade tests , how do you figure out ?

like information , like it's it's pretty crazy in my eyes like you know what world we live in and what's going to be available . I would even tell you me the credit . Or I had a big thing with calculators , right . Everybody , like put their stuff in the calculator , you put a bunch of codes on the on the back end and all that .

But I was like I am going to use a calculator forever in the future , forever , Like I will never not have a calculator when I'm doing math , so why do you ? I have to learn it now . Like , okay , teach me how to do it , but if you're going to give me a test , let's have a real world application , right ?

So I think that there's a lot of issues that I'm kind of tapping into , but I think the thing that people , what I want to hear from you is okay , AI is happening .

One interesting note , by the way , is that executives are using it more often than entry level people , and I think it's because the executives are realizing that it will change everything and they're trying to get ahead of it .

The executives are realizing that it will change everything and they're trying to get ahead of it , whereas sometimes it can be rough around the edges and entry level folks are saying that's not there yet , or you know .

If you look at , like , the total set of searches , like it's four percent , google was a little concerned about the growth rate , but if you like , dig into the data , you're just playing around with it . People are still using it .

Like you said , I think the executives , you know , are trying to create impact of , okay , like a big proposal or , or this , or I'm trying to communicate this , or I'm trying to translate that they have things that that can create more value and more impact , and so they can see AI as creating more leverage , potentially based on their visibility of of what they

can impact individually and maybe entry-level people in their specific job . You know , depending on what that is , might not be as impactful , but I I do think , like knowledge , workers across the board are certainly impacted and executives could could fall into that category .

So , if you have any kind of information , like you thought it was going to impact , like the lower end people first , but it's actually impacting , like the lawyers , it's impacting healthcare , I mean , like all the things that you learn that AI can do .

Depending on what capacity , you can create a lot of leverage to do things that might might take someone very skilled that in pattern , pattern recognition or something like that that other people couldn't . Maybe I don't know . I know I kind of cut you off .

One could be that , like as I said , we think that maybe executives realize how fundamental of a shift is coming and they're trying to get ahead of it . But , as you mentioned , like with almost every tech trend , it's usually driven by the entry-level teammates first adopting things and then the rest of the organization , and this is dramatically different .

However , it is definitely being adopted as fast as like anything we've ever seen . 90% of marketers are using it weekly . A big percentage say it's like crucial to the job already .

But when you ask about where do humans fall in the loop , I really think that I agree with you around how the folks you should be worried about are those that are adopting and leveraging AI versus AI operating by itself . Over time , we'll see more and more of that .

Hopefully , it's things that the AI takes off our plate that are more annoying , so we can focus on the bigger and more important things , but we've already started to see a few examples of where AI is taking the lead . One standout example is in brand safety .

There are some agencies where we've seen vet creators manually and it takes like four to six hours per creator , and now AI can .

Like you know , we built some tools and played around here and the tool we built , for example , can do it in like minutes and look back for years , and that's one where now , conclusively , I think you can say , like AI is just flat out better at brand safety and flagging things . However , you still want the human in the mix .

So I think what we'll see is people , whether it's an engineer working with these code assisting tools , co-pilot tools , an agency person reviewing drafts of things or reviewing flags that AI has flagged for targeting and or safety purposes . I think we're just going to have our work scaled .

But then one other thing humans kind of being scaled by AI is one theme still , I think we're just going to have our work scaled and but then one other thing like humans kind of being scaled by AI is one theme . And then one other theme is humans becoming more technical .

For example , I'm not technical but I can use these tools to rapidly draft content that I never could have with like Adobe before , but now I can get like something from my mind's eye onto paper .

With tools like you know , mid journey or our LTX studio for video stuff like that , you can get from concept to content and it makes marketers technical now , which is pretty cool .

I mean , you even look at , like , um , all the different ad platforms , right , like how they were structured , how they're set up , like there's a little bit of pain around that , but they're , they're , they're improving that , that process , and I think , even prompting , like setting up , like prompts for people to to achieve what they're wanting to achieve .

I think it unlocks a lot of creative potential for people that aren't technical to do things right , and I'm seeing this with a lot of different platforms across the board , even building websites , right , like you know , you got drag and drop builders versus having code stuff .

I mean you just look at , like what WordPress or some of these different platforms like Wix are really doing , um , and then like again that that pattern recognition or or AI detection , um , you , you put in , you put in those uh variables , like for backlinks , for example , like you can , you can , like you can assess data .

I think , again , those applications , even outside of uh , uh , uh , marketing , specifically like , okay , identifying this cancer or identifying like these illnesses , you run it through pattern recognition and you can like pull a data set and then it can kind of spit out an answer , most likely .

And so these applications can be applied broadly and I like that as far as , like you know , brand detection and you can set up kind of different triggers to have like automated things happen . Right . And I think that the automation is what I'm scared about of really .

You know , people are setting up like content machines or you know , like the AI bots that are . Just you feed it a prompt and it just goes , goes , goes and it's going 24 , seven , yeah . And then they're proliferating . What is it ? The dead internet theory ? What ?

One thing I use it for all the time is spreadsheet manipulation . So , for example , like hey , upload a file to ChatGPT and use this to combine first and last name fields and make a new column . Or longer things like add a new column and research all these companies and add the industry they're in . Or like basic spreadsheet manipulation .

That some of them you can do if you know Excel shortcuts really well . But if you don't , like you don't even really have to learn them now you can just prompt ChatGPT and then basic data analysis you can do there too .

So that's one quick example that I use like every week , because now , instead of manually looking up things , I'll have it look them up for me and append a new column .

But if you're giving a bunch of data like this has always been my opinion and I would love to hear your opinion you know , like OK , if you're running ads and you upload a bunch of stuff to Facebook to like , hash , match , to say , hey , target these people or build this lookalike list , right , yeah , people are like , oh , this is our data , right , and they're

like this is our data , I don't want to share it . I'm like Google has everybody's data . Facebook has got everybody's data . We're just organizing that data . There's nothing like there's one half of 1% that you might add to the overall mix . In my opinion , it's just organization .

But if people are doing stuff and there's a lot of companies that are limiting the use of chat , tbt , especially from , okay , this is , you know , maybe it's trader codes or you know whatever , but what is your ? How do you do that ? If you're concerned about the data set and just giving it out to the public domain , that's a great question .

And , to be honest , I think the fears are overblown , even from a traditional perspective .

Even from a traditional perspective , you never know , like , for I think that the reason there's the compliance issues , the reason that these like larger companies are worried about it is that they're trying to do their best to comply with all these things like GDPR et cetera , and so they need that contractual guarantee that you're gonna handle my data properly .

But from a practical point of view , like , if you're a startup and you're being like I just would not , your biggest risk is not growing and , um , usually you don't have to worry about the compliance things as much in the beginning when you're just getting started .

And I do think the fears are overblown about , um , are they going to use them in some other way ? It's just really you're signing the business contracts because you are trying to get the contractual guarantee , but realistically I think you'd be fine .

Um , the other part of that is , um , you know , uh , like we , yeah , we use the um a business a tier to have like access to these other features and things .

Um , but you know , if you are concerned about it , even as a person like , let's just say you're uploading something that you personally are worried about , you can just do a temporary chat which they say explicitly they won't use , like that data is deleted .

So there are , there are options even for , like your everyday user , but 100% , probably the best money you'll spend as a business user is like the $20 a month to access these higher power models . It's like a different experience .

I haven't yet tried the new $200 a month pro version but , to be honest , like you don't need the pro version unless you're actually pushing the boundaries of , like scientific literature . I've I've used it for one particular thing .

I was trying to like stump it with like it's if you're asking questions about , like a science paper or medical paper or something like your day to day usage , you probably are fine with 4.0 , just uploading documents and things . Maybe a one if you need some like extra juice . But , yeah , definitely try the pro as a marketer , it'll make you technical .

And I want to give one more example .

With the provert like 20 a month , for example , you might think you're not technical , but really to dispel that in like five , no , dispel that in 60 seconds , um , go into the version , go to the new canvas , which was released yesterday , I think , and just say like I want to create a working game of Pong , and you can create it with one prompt .

Double click it . Say like save it as an HTML file . Double click it , it opens your browser and it will work right out of the gate . And then you can just say like in the cursor , say like well , can you make the background blue and can you give me a button to increase the sensitivity of the arrow keys ? You will be able to code with English .

And so now I think it's important for marketers to realize that these tools make you good enough and can help you cross that chasm . So where you are , you can be technical . And that will be a hard thing for people to shake if they've been in this space for a while , but people just entering it will kind of grasp it intuitively .

But yeah , I'd say you should be worried about the marketer , that's 10X-ing their own capabilities by leaning on these tools .

How would you- .

I think there's some anxiety that they might be replaced and or taken advantage of because of , for example , the training data and the training sets . They're worried , you know , am I as an artist or creator , is this , you know , unfairly using that data ? And there's a lot of things pending , like you said , like the kind of a landmark .

The New York Times lawsuit is a landmark example of that . So there is some anxiety about its IP issues in the creative field . But I think you also mentioned this beginning . It's just inevitable and inescapable that it is impacting things and when you think back to artists of the day , they were using the most up-to-date and latest technology to make their works .

The thing that we considered , like you know , kind of classical art back then was really pushing boundaries and the things that we think , whether it's music and old production techniques , like they were , they were pushing these , like tapes and things to the limit and I think the like modern artists using that and embracing it , we'll be able to build a lot more

interesting and amazing things with it . So it'll push the boundaries as well . So there's this element of like democratizing and making everyone technical , whether a creator , engineer , whatever . There's that element of anxiety about , like , people wondering about where their place is and people always having to adopt the next thing or , for us , build the next thing .

But I do think it , I am an optimist and I do think it opens up possibilities more than anything else and we will have a golden age of content creation . I think you're right in that there is going to be this proliferation of a thousand times more stuff . That's bad , but with AI , you can also surface the gems better than ever before .

So there's a stat that's like , every two years , there's more content created that year than entire history of humankind before that , and that will accelerate . I think it's inevitable and it'll hold true .

It'll continue to hold in true , but I think that , yes , there'll be a lot of bland stuff created with AI , but we have the technology to also surface the best things for people to see .

If it's low quality content , it's like we can't even keep this in our directories of our search engines because it's just not valuable , right ? So one , it goes away . Right , if there's too much inventory and then out of the inventory there is , a lot of people can answer the question .

They're trying to just keep you on Google's and say , hey , here's the AI summary . Like zero click , here you go , here's the answer . So if you're going to be producing content , it needs to be like a couple of tiers above that . And how many people do you really have that are competing on that level ? I've seen with like very big companies versus startups .

One of the biggest things that I remember when I was like really heavily in that world was , okay , microsoft , where my mom was like one of the first employees at Microsoft and you know she would always tell me , yeah , we got like two people at the whole company working on this like one thing , right , you know , or whatever .

And so you like , look at this whole company , you're like I can't beat this whole company , but , depending on like whatever the problem is you're trying to solve , you know , like it was like like just the analogy , I was like one person's really working hard , so you're competing with that person .

One person's looking for their next job right , and they're like whatever . And then one person's like screwing off , like , and so it's like so , so , so you're , you're not . You're not at that big of a disadvantage .

Where you have the advantage is you're more able to move quick , right , like you don't have approvals , you don't have all the red tape , like , you can pivot , you can figure stuff out .

So you're more agile , and I think that you know if you're trying to be very narrow and you know what you're solving for , um , you know ai , whatever you have , you have that leverage in , like a reddit post .

Or you know um social media , like these algorithms , like okay , you're producing stuff for tiktok , youtube , instagram , whatever it's going to go viral , right , like one post could go viral . The game has changed , right ?

I would love to hear your take on like kind of lessons learned as well as how is influencer right , like , how is it so they get AI influencers . You got like fake AI bots that are posting stuff , generating money , like you hear about a lot of that in the news . But if you're an influencer , how do you leverage AI ?

And also , like , where is influencer marketing fitting into the broader scope of the digital landscape , the marketing mix , like when you're looking at so kind of go big picture and kind of narrow it down to AI and influencers . I'd love to kind of see what you've learned there and that kind of thing . To start , there's two things .

I'd love to kind of see what you've learned there and that kind of thing .

But there's some emergent business models , such as , like Reddit , licensing their data to people to train their models on it , and you can definitely put a premium on new data .

So places that have that data , whether it's Twitter , x , reddit , et cetera , new York Times with topical new things these are all still really valuable , so hopefully that the people producing , like classic publishers , creators , et cetera I think there'll still be value in that , but we still have to .

I think there's still more cards to be played and chips to fall in terms of like . Where are that all nets out ? As a creator , you might be worried that , like an AI , influencer is going to take your job , because they can create endless content and post it and , over time , just gets better and better and better .

I have seen , though , like an oddly high durability of influencers . As someone who's been in this space for over a decade probably 12 years actually it is remarkable how robust influencers as a channel are and I think will be even in the age of AI .

Who knows if they'll get to a point where I , as a creator , can license my name and likeness and use models built on that to easier , more easily create content or drive experiences et cetera . I think that's a way that creators can scale . We don't see much of that today , but just the trust that people have in those channels is as high as it's ever been .

I think we'll see a little bit of a resurgence of classical channels with authoritativeness in an age of AI where nothing can be really verified . But people will be looking also to these creators that they know and love and trust and follow .

I actually am not as worried as others might be that in AI there will be AI influencers , but I don't think that they're just going to take over . There's also not the emotional connection , like if I showed you this like amazing impressionist , you know scene in France and told you one was made by like Matisse or something and the others made by AI .

Humans are like , oh screw , that other thing Like the Matisse thing is brilliant , even if in a blind test they couldn't tell . Once you know the providence of something .

It just shifts something irreparably in your head , and so I do think that , no matter what , like influencers have a big , huge foothold in this media landscape , and just simply the providence of them being a real person and this coming from them and being curated by them , I think it will remain to be a huge asset .

Yes , like they , they follow people that they know , like and trust like , okay , I got some books out there called that , but , like the reality is it's true , right , like , it's absolutely true .

I like , I've been talking about this for forever because the communities grow and it's like you don't trust anything and there's so much information , you're looking for this person to provide me the news , right , and , and I think that some of the platform channels know , and there was okay , we were .

You know we're limiting content , we're doing all this kind of stuff . Um , like they're not the sources of truth that that they once were . You're really looking at everything like , is this real ? Like I mean , right now I don't know , but I'm I creep on twitter .

I need need to get more personally on Twitter , but I can tell you , I get so much great information from it , but right now there's UFO sightings all over the place and I'm like , so someone posts it and I'm like , wow , but if I knew that person and they posted it , I could message that person or there would be a level of like is this AI generated ?

Is this real Like ? I think there's probably a blend , but I don't know who to trust .

I think that curation and taste will remain a differentiator , since AI is democratizing for the production of things and really shrinking that gap between imagination and creation , which is really like our mission as a company , by the way .

But if that's happening , then creativity is that ultimate , like final asset and taste is the asset there where , if you can imagine it , you can put it to paper now more and more every day , but as a thought experiment , like let's just say that there is an account , or like let's just say that , like if , if I was an influencer , I'm not very influential online

, but like people follow you , you might just be curating images generated by ai , but your , the , what you curate , still adds a bit of the story to it , versus an account that's just spitting them out , and so I think , even even if a creator is not created themselves but curating , I still think there's power in that , and , and so I really think that

influencers as a channel if you asked me years ago , I wouldn't have guessed that they'd be as durable as they are , but I think they have like a really strong foothold , and so I think it's still worth investing in .

I don't think creators should be as fearful as they might be and I think they can take advantage of the media landscape and kind of the lack of trust . We'll see , I do think .

Actually , by the way , the biggest problem with AI near term , I think long term there's like tons of opportunity and tons of problems that will come up , but near term it's misinformation and creators , influencers posting like content that's originating from them will have a piece where people can trust certain outlets and creators .

There will be some that might be more known to rile up people , but then that'll be attached to them . They'll have a low authenticity score in the communities that they're in because of that .

I love that the durability component to that , because I think a lot of creators are like hey , I've built this big audience , like what's going to happen ? So I think there's some concern about that . But , like , also , online , you're exposed to so much information and to your point , yeah , if there , if there's people that are adding value , I follow them .

Right , if there's somebody that's posting like and I go check this outlandish comments , I remove because I don't , I block them . I'm like I don't , like I am trying to get a truth feed here of whatever I'm interested in or have the curation to that standpoint and and you can , you can , you can , you can group that together .

My last question for you I I feel like we've just kind of started to unpack this really is how do you influence ? Where do you see the bridge between influencers today and in businesses ? Right , so you have a big platform that connects influencers with brands , right , and so where is that business opportunity ? Where are people missing out ?

Like I think a lot of people are still running a bunch of Facebook ads , running a bunch of you know Google ads , right , they haven't really branched out into kind of the digital PR landscape and maybe they've heard about it , or they put a little bit of money towards it and didn't see anything . What are they missing ? What's the bridge ?

Overall , creators are amazing at creating content and scaling content , driving like awareness to your product and consideration and building a community . But the Shopify type smaller brands also excel at using them for conversion and sales . So I'll split it in a few ways .

At its most basic , if you're a small to medium-sized business or a startup or Shopify brand , something like that , you can use creators as an engine to create a lot of content , start building a community , like seeding a community with your product , et cetera , driving things like posts and even reviews online .

And then , if you end up working with a lot of creators , one thing I'd heavily , heavily call out is that if you're using them for conversion , it follows a power law , not a bell curve . So bell curve it's like . The average is in the middle . A power law means that 20% of the creators will drive 80% of the results .

So really , what you should imagine them as is , if you worked with like 100 creators , 20 of them would drive most of the sales and of that 20 , a few of them would drive the majority of those . So it's really a power curve .

And what I advise people working with creators if they're working with creators for conversion , test and learn , try a lot of things and then keep doubling down with the ones that are working and kind of use them , work with them as brand ambassadors .

The most successful people I've seen on that side are almost using them like an outbound , like a commission only Salesforce and they're like training in , like having regular talks and calls , even with these group of creators , telling them like , hey , here's what's working for the people , sharing tips and tricks . But that that's one thing .

On conversion side and as a bigger brand , I would really lean on creators as a way to stay as agile as possible , creating content as quickly and scaled as possible , because you need a ton of content for your ads and you can use them in like your ad units .

So I'd say like the bigger you go , the more we find our brands using for content and just raw influencer posts . Then when you go lower on the size of the company , it's often geared towards conversion .

But , like , when you look at it from a broader standpoint , I work with some B2B companies B2C , but some big companies and we're doing thought leadership and we're creating influence and it's not just about the bottom line , Right , and so you know you're running the advertising to just get the word out there , to get your name out there , to kind of like , let

people know how you're positioned in the marketplace . Then the influencers come in and the PR comes in to help position it . So you're on someone's radar with the advertising , but they don't know what to think . They don't know that . That's where the reviews , that's where the trust comes in .

So the PR gets in their face of like , okay , I've heard this brand before , but this influencer that I'm aware of , like just mentioned it . Like , ok , now it's on my radar , right , but I've seen you know that fall off pretty quickly . Right , you use an influencer , it's initial attention . Right , like it gets someone's attention .

But you've got to get them into your funnel . Right , and you've got to have your strategy of your , your content and and you need to be hit in with SEO . Like you need to , you need to be email dripping . I'm like you've got to , you've got to . You've got to use the influencer to get them on your list .

Right , and then and then and then you've got to reel them in , like the hook some .

One or two of those ads or one or two of those posts will perform better than the rest . You can use that as like a kernel for an ad . That will be very successful . And so something I'd recommend to everyone is , like we made popular pace , for example , to make it easy to like organize your work there scaling creator campaigns .

But I'd also recommend that everyone have like an editor that they um you there's . You can reach out to people on Instagram . You can if you're just buying one . You don't even need to use a platform like pop pays . You can just like DM them .

But find an editor whose style you like and get a rate with them so that when you have all these um assets like if you have a bunch of influencer posts they can stitch them into ad units and you can find you can find editors online who can just add a few motion graphics , text , et cetera , text overlay and turn a really great influencer post into probably

your best performing ad unit . So that's one really tried and true playbook .

But what's one unknown secret of digital marketing that you don't think people use enough and they should be leveraging ?

You can now do anything you want to do , and so creativity is really the only boundary and barrier there . But yeah , I would say that the main secret and trick is to expand your idea of how technical you can be at anything you want to learn .

If you want to grow your business with the largest , most powerful tool on the planet the internet , all right , reach out to EWR Digital for marketing your business . Check out MatthewBurchamcom . We are launching a coaching program in January .

There's a lot of good trainings and things that we're coming out with , so , so please check it out and until the next time , bye-bye for now .