It was very clear by age of fifteen sixteen, when I was already a grand master, that I became the only woman player in those tournaments where let's say there were thirteen men adults and I was the only girl or woman. Later on, but it meant that I had to have the perseverance for that, to stand up always when something went wrong or they beat me, to have that the fighting spirit, to have the dedication, to have
that passion for the game. That was Judith Paulgar. She's been called the greatest woman chess player of all time, but her achievements go beyond gender lines. At age fifteen, she became the youngest person ever to achieve grand master status, younger than Bobby Fisher was when he earned that title, and she's defeated many of the world's most renowned men players, including Gary Kasparov and Boris Spassky. I'm a land Ververe
and this is Seneca's one d Women to Hear. We are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making women you need to hear. Judith Polgar has been excelling at chess for more than four decades, since she was a five year old in Hungary. Today, she coaches chess and inspires the next generation of players through the Judith Polgar Chess Foundation, and on October eight she will once again host the annual Judith Polgar Global
Chess Festival. This year's theme is Women in Chess, Women in Science. Listen and learn why Judith Polgar is one of Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. I'm here today with Judith Polgar, who is considered to be the best woman chess player of all time. Judy, it is a pleasure to have you with us. Thank you very much. Nice to be here. Really, you became a grand master at age fifteen. You were ranked eighth in the world male or female. You've beaten many of the men who
were world champions. What is that special thing that makes you different that makes you a top chess player. I believe that mainly the way I was raised and my parents gave and supported me in many different ways and and also inspired me to have a mindset that I know that I can do it, and they always said
that I can do it. They try to give the most possible opportunities to me, having the good trainers, giving opportunity to play in the right tournament and also support me emotionally and in every way, so I'm able to improve from day to days. So that's how I think I could become really good in chess. Well, you mentioned your parents, and I know that you began playing in tournaments when you were just six years old. Tell us how you got introduced to chess. Was it your parents
and what was your training? Like? Why were you attracted to chess? Actually, for me, I had a paved road ahead of me because I have two older sisters. Susan who is the oldest, She's seven year older than me, so when I started to play chess when I was five, she had already very serious results even internationally. So Sophia, the middle one, she also played chess already, and when I was a baby, already my parents knew that my path is to become a chess champion, and they did
everything in order to to make me one. And so it was very natural for me that I wanted to follow my sisters and I started to play chess. Then I started to have my first tournament, and very fast they discovered that I'm talented and I'm growing very fast in my chess knowledge and somehow my character was also very much suited for competitions. So this is how I
started to to get to be involved with chess. And of course when you have positive feedback from your parents, when you go to a chess tournament with you win your game, those are the best fuel to move on and to be inspired again and again. And what was it about chess your sisters? As you said, we're very engaged, But what made it so compelling for you? I mean, after all, you have to put in such long hours
to become a champion. I think I just started to love the game very much and it gave me a lot of pleasure to not only to win the game men win against adult men, but also what I enjoyed a lot from the very beginning the creativity part of chess, which means that to make combinations, to to create some unexpected solutions and something very beautiful. And in chess we say if you give up some pieces and then suddenly unexpectedly win the game, So those kind of solutions are
liked very much. And also my playing style was very much like that that that was very aggressive. I wanted to win the game as short as possible and give checkmate to my opponent. And I really like those creative moments and and combinations which I learned at home, and then later on I could apply it in tournament chess as well. So interesting, now, women and chess don't typically go together. But when you were out, you competed against boys.
You want what sort of obstacles have you had to face as a girl or as a woman in chess, and how did you deal with those? Obviously, my sisters were supporting me a lot, and they had already the experience and they were sharing it with me and supporting me how to do it differently. Let's say, well, of course, when I was a kid, people did not really believe that my knowledge is stable, and they said, okay, she's
just lucky here. Her opponent was sick, her opponent was wasn't in good for so they were always excuses, or many times there were excuses. And later on I also experienced that I had to prove myself much more time than as if I would have been a talented boy,
because this was normal. And then it was very clear by age of fifteen sixteen, when I was already a grandmaster, that I became the only woman player in those tournaments where I started to play those invitational tournaments where let's say there were thirteen men adults and I was the
only girl or or woman. Later on, and I mean one of the nicest things they told me already much later, when an and world champion was asked what does he think about Judith Bulger And then he didn't really understand the question and replied that, well, she's one of us. And so I worked hard for that that they acknowledged my results, and they really treated me like another very
strong grandmaster. But it meant that I I had to have the perseverance for that, to stand up always when something went wrong or they beat me, to have that fighting spirit, to have that dedication, to have that passion for the game. And I think also that my character suited very much for competition. It also helped a lot. She's one of us. That's high praise coming from a guy,
especially a world champion. By any chance, was that Gary Kasparov who was speaking, He certainly was a world champion, a grand master, one of the chess giants that you have beaten. He was dismissive of you. I gather uh and women players in general when you first came on the scene. But what did you think of his comments
then and how did you help him change his mind? Well, you know, the to change people's mind is always something difficult, but usually results eventually convinced them, and this was the case for me also with my events and games with Kasparo as when he said those things. For example, in eight eight when he was asked after me and my sisters we won gold medal for Hungary Hungary in the
ladies team. Those very few occasions when I played in ladies competitions, he was asked from a journalist that what does he think, how good can I become? I was only twelve years old, and he said, well, he believes that absolutely I am going to become a world champion. And when the reporter asked him that what do you think can you ever play with her? Then he said,
well I don't think so. I it's almost impossible. And what happened was later on, when I was sixteen, I played my first game against Kasparov and after that many other occasions repeated it and he was beating me quite a few times. But then the time came when I made some drows, we had a very fighting draw. Also I had an opportunity where it was very difficult for him, so he was sweating a little bit, almost being scared that he can lose the game. And then later on,
at one point I was also winning against him. So it was very clear that little by little I could improve my chest and I could also perform and show it on the chessboard against him. And this is how I gained respect with all the grandmasters. That's simply I was playing better. I want again a game against them, which meant that they had to experience it on their own skin. What it what it is when they lose against me? And then they started to change their attitude.
What was it like that first time when you beat Kasparov? It was great? But I have to tell you that already before I made in a huge tournament which was considered the vimbloodin of chess in Linares a year ago, I played two fantastic games against him, and I considered those at least as important in my career as the one which I wont. Seneca's one hundred Women to hear will be back after the short break. Now, as you mentioned, mostly you played against men rather than other women. What
was your thinking behind that? Well, I'm I feel very fortunate that my parents raised me this way, that they were always focusing on the objective performance in the sport and not limit my limit me and my sisters that we can only become masters grandmasters between ladies. Because the problem is that when you say that, for example, too a little girl, you say, and there are six that you can become a great world champion between women, and you say the same thing for a boy, that you
can become the world champion between men. The different thing is that it's like in reality as if you would say to a girl that you can have a PhD. And you inspired the boy that you can be a Nobel prize winner. So this is the huge difference. And this is why I'm really grateful to my parents that they were always believing in me that I should be performing as good as possible and be the best I can objectively in the sport, not talking the difference between
women and men chess. And I think this gave me a great vision on life, on on in everything, how I raise my kids, how I live my life, and and and this I'm very very happy for that. This is what my parents told me and I for me, this was the most natural thing that obviously, of course, I look at the sport, not about the gender questions.
Are your children interested in chef? They were playing when they were in kindergarten and in elementary school for second grade, but after that they gave up, they were not interested anymore. To each his own, as we say, they have to follow their own path. Why do you think it is that there aren't very many women in chess? What's holding women back? There are many reasons. I think one is
that society is not really supporting that. As let's say, if a boy wants to become competitive in chess, there are somehow more accepting that attitude from a boy than from a girl life. But also generally teachers are not supportive so much. Parents may be also not that supportive. And actually there are many girls who play. Maybe it's even fifty fifty until age ten eleven or so, and only after that it becomes a huge dropout for girls.
And probably also because they are to to be more serious about their studies, they get matured earlier, and and somehow they don't like this lifestyle and in society is not supporting them at all, They are not encouraging them that wow, this would be a great profession for you. Do you think there's some connection between chess and the stem field because you know, girls get so interested in math and science and then so often along the way
they drop up. Yeah, it's interesting, why is that? But I think there are going to be more and more girls in the stem field also, first of all, because it can be an interesting way of having family and work because you can work from home much easier. I think in many of those fields. Yes, hopefully changes coming forward. I know that today you are focused on the international
promotion of the sport um that you've written books. The Judith Pulgar Chess Foundation was established several years ago and you've got the Chess Festival coming up. Tell us about it and what's its mission. Yeah. I established my Chess Foundation in two thousand twelve and we are focusing on promoting chess and specifically chess in education for kids. And we have the Global Chess Festival, which is aiming to share the passion for chess with the rest of the world.
So we have the slogan of Chess connects Us. It's going to be in the Hungarian National Gallery with the different conferences on chess on education, also about creativity and innovation and connecting to science and chess. We're also going to have some demo workshops how chess and mass connect
how coding is connecting. Also with my educational program is going to be shown to the big audience, and we're going to be having also online activities apart from the chess tournament for kids and for everybody else for adults generally. We have another thread of the festival, which is that we have it in Budapest, but we want to inspire from every little city, everybody who is a little bit
attached to chess. If they have organized an event, whether it's a chess fashion show or a chess film is projected, or whether it's chess tournament, chess simultaneous exhibition, anything related to chess, if they send it to us, we are uploading their information also on our website, and we do hope that eventually within years we're going to have this special day of second Saturday of each October where the whole world, in the smallest cities, played chess or have
chess related activities at the same time. So exciting. It's there one book that you've written that you would recommend to our listeners. If they wanted to get interested in chess. Uh. Well, I've been writing about my life of more than three decades of of my career with stories and chess games and puzzles is the Judith paulgar Teaches Chess series. But this is already for for those who who play on
a certain level like a club player or so. My other book which is for beginners for kids, it's only in Hungarian, So this is what I can offer for now, but I have also on the courses on internet. Well, I regret that we're coming to the end of our conversation, but I did want to ask you before we close, what makes you optimistic today about women's participation in chess. We're making progress, as you've said, coming a long way
from the days when you were a little girl. But just how how do you see the future for women in chess. Well, obviously it has to improve, but it did already quite significantly. Nowadays there are more events for ladies and the bigger price funds, which also makes a difference.
But still I do hope that there are going to be more girls and women later who feel that they want to be really the best in the sport and the best they can be not only between ladies, and this is what I'm working hard, and I like to motivate the girls, especially youngsters, that they should believe in themselves.
They should be having high expectations from themselves. But at the same time, I think it's very important that their coaches and especially their parents should be having great expectations and support their daughters that they should become the best they can, so don't limit them. That's a wonderful message to close on and a great lesson no matter what
the pursuit in which one is engaged. Thank you for being the inspiration that you are, for talking with us today, for making this sport come alive, and for being the greatest female chess player of all time. Judith Pulgar, thank you so much. Thank you very much. What a treat and an education to talk to chess legend Judith Polgar. There are three things I took from that conversation. First,
Judith Polgar offers a recipe for success for children. It's a mix of early encouragement, positive feedback, and using initial winds to build a confidence that leads to more win and Second, Judith says it's important to challenge girls to be the best at whatever they do, not only to be the best among girls or among boys, but to be the best period. Finally, if we want girls to attain the heights, we need to set their expectations high. Yes you can win a Nobel Prize. Yes you can
be a chess grandmaster. When girls dream big and they have support, they can sore. If all this has you curious about chess, check out Judith Polgar's Global Chess Festival, which starts on October in Budapest. You can participate online. Visit Global Chess Festival dot com and tune in next time to hear about our next featured woman and discuss of her why she's one of Seneca's one hundred Women
to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG. Have a Great Day,