Joyce DiDonato: Opera Star

opera star Joyce de Donado. The New York Times is called this mezzo soprano perhaps the most potent female singer of her generation, and her dedication to making a deep human connection through music is evident in her latest role as Virginia Wolf in the Metropolitan Opera's world premiere of The Hours. Joyce's performance has been acclaimed as outstanding, confident, fresh, subtle, and sonorous. I'm Alan ververe In. This is Seneca's on women to hear. We're bringing you one hundred of the

world's most inspiring and history making women. You need to hear. Joyce de Donado has three Grammy Awards to her name, as well as many other honors. She has sung on stages from the met to Carnegie Hall, from Barcelona to Berlin. Not bad for a girl from prairie village, Kansas who was told starting out that she didn't have much talent, And here's some great news for her fans. Even if you can't get to New York City to hear joy sing, you can see her this coming Saturday, December tenth, when

The Hours will be broadcast live in theaters. Go to the Met's website met Opera dot org for the details. Now, let's and then learn why Joyce de Donado is one of Seneca's One Women to Hear. I'm speaking today to award winning global opera star Joyce de Donado. Welcome, Joyce. It's a thrill to have you with us. Thank you. I'm very honored to be here. Now. I know you're appearing in the world premiere of The Hours in New York City and you're singing the part of Virginia Wolf. Now,

how terrific is that? Can you tell us a little bit about what that means to you? Where do I start? How much time do we have? As much as you need? Superb um it is. There are so many different elements about this experience that are incredibly rich. One is the very baseline of doing a world premiere at the Metropolitan Opera. It's they haven't given very many world premiers, and they're very illustrious history, and so it's a very honorous situation.

It's not only a world premiere of a new opera, but it's also building on a Pulitzer Prize winning novel on an Academy Award winning film. There's a lot of history to this, and you mix into the fact that I'm playing such a Titanic woman of a role very complex, had a huge impact on the arts, on feminism on the twentieth century, Virginia Woolf. That alone is another immense element to this. But what I'm finding perhaps the most

powerful part of this is the timing of it. I think this is a story that resonated quite strongly, you know, in the late nineties when the novel was written, and then early two thousand when the film came out. But we've just spent two and a half years in isolation. We've spent the last two and a half years where so many of our loved ones were The issues of

mental health really can screaming to the surface. We've had a pandemic with a new virus, you know, and certainly the theme of AIDS is very present in the hours, and so the timing of re encountering this story I think is very powerful and it's coming through the power of music. The words in the novel were very strong, the what's the word? The impact of the film was also very strong with these great actresses, and there's there was a kind of distance that pulled you into that story.

But the difference with the operas that we have the music to just fill in the emotional impact of these immense stories of these ladies. So that's a there's a lot on my mind with it. So it's hard to pinpoint exactly with your question, but it's a it feels like a great honor, and it feels like there's a lot of responsibility to do this story justice at this moment in time. Well, you said that so well, and I can understand why it feels like a great honor.

I think the other interesting aspect of the Hours is that you're appearing with Renee Fleming and Kelly O'Hara, two other iconic singers, needless to say, and I wonder what happens when you get three divas together and what is your working relationship like with the other two. It's been extraordinary and and I have to say, the way this piece has emerged is it feels like a huge ensemble piece.

So I know that we're the ones on the poster and in the advertisements, and of course it's the story of these three women, but we have eighteen characters in total, and we have a huge chorus that essentially like a Greek chorus treatment of it, and in many ways they're the inner voices of these three women. And we've added a dance ensemble as well that that becomes the link between these three stories. And it was set up from day one that this was really going to be a

community effort to bring this to life. So that's important to understand the umbrella. But to go into the heart of your question, I mean, I think it was paramount that that you have equal and you have three women that bring different strengths to these stories, but also bring an incredible gravitas to each one of the roles that they're singing, because they are three equal stories that merge

into want the end. And so I think it was really quite brilliant of Peter Gelp and the met to really cast this in a daring kind of way, but in a way that you're bringing not just actresses or singers, but artists into these roles. And what I have very happily found throughout my career is that the people that rise to the very top of the industry are usually the hardest workers and the ones that leave a lot of space to learn and grow through their humility and

their generosity as performers. And that's what I have found with the three of us in this room is we want everybody to be extraordinary so that the impact of the story is not just about a diva performance. It's about what we really bring to life into the heart of the listener. It's been a total pleasure to summarize, you know, it's just an inspiration to hear you talk about it in those terms. You know, was thinking about what you said. It's not just three stories, it's three artists,

and I might add amazing artists. So what a what a powerful production? How did all of this start? Let's talk about Joyce a little bit. You grew up in Prairie Village, Kansas, and you are now on the stage of the Metropolitan Opera, and I wonder, and I'm sure our listeners are so interested in knowing as well, what was your childhood like? Did you spend your young years just singing all the time, or you know what brought you to these great roles and the one that we're

you've just described so brilliantly and vividly. I had a in many ways an idyllic childhood and in many ways a really challenging childhood. It was a very musical family, very musical and all kinds of genres that definitely classical music by um the heart of it, but older sisters that listened to Broadway music and my older brother listening to his hard rock and roll a C. D. C Um.

And I was a child of the eighties, so I was very much in the pop culture of of Madonna and Michael Jackson, and I lived for that, and I had the blessing of of having an extraordinary choral experience was when I was in high school, and so I was very clear at eighteen, very clear that I was going to become a high school music teacher, trying to be the cool one and saving kids lives because it was that's what it felt like it did for me.

I um, you know, I was the sixth of seven kids Irish Catholic family, and by the time I was in high school, you know, my parents were tired, my parents were tired, and I was. I think me and my little brother were sort of bles defend for ourselves, and you know, we had a lot of financial difficulties, and there was a lot of pressure for me to

help my parents, to sort of parent them. Actually, when I was a teenager and the high school musical and the choral experiences were the place where I just got to be me and I got to really dream and um fulfill things just for my sake. And I wanted to give that experience to other kids. And so I went to Wichita State to be a music teacher. And you know, I was paying my own way through college, and so I could get some extra scholarship money if

I joined the opera chorus. And I thought, that's an extra two a year a semester, which is now is sort of unheard of, but I needed that back then. And uh, and I got into the opera and I just my world exploded. Not from having watched it. I didn't watch an opera and think I have to do that. Mind came from the inside because I started to study this music and sing it and it was such a

culmination of everything I wanted to be. I had to address musicality, singing, the theatrics of becoming and losing myself in another character, the human psychology, the human existence, which is what Opera deals with, the huge emotions, and always, for me, music connected me to something divine. You know, I don't always know how to describe it, but that's

the word. I keep coming back to, something much bigger than myself and something that feels elevated from you know, the cement jungles that we travel in, and I just I decided to go for it. And my journey was a very slow burn. I was not a bona fide star from the beginning, by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't really start coming into my own until my early thirties. But I kept working, and I kept with a certain amount of determination because I felt there was

something inside that I was destined to express. Well, you said it didn't come quickly, and it was a lot of work that you engaged in to get where you are. But you've been called perhaps the most potent female singer of your generation, with a voice that is twenty four carrot gold. Now that's high high praise. What did it take to get that voice? You talked about it not coming quickly, obviously, and how do you maintain it? You know, it's so interesting to hear people of your extraordinary caliber

are such extraordinary performers in music. How do you project your personality through your singing, because just listening to you, you have a very powerful personality. M M. Yeah. Well, and maybe that's why I chose opera, because opera is sort of larger than life, you know. I, um, well, the first part of your question. I've always looked at myself as things that came very easily to me were musicianship and theatricality. I was at home the first moment

I stepped onto the stage. Um. I think my first play was Harvey. In high school, I played Vita Louise Simmons, and uh my, there was one moment I had to cry on stage. And my older brother continues to take credit for that because he used to torture me and I learned how to fake cry to get him off of me because he was trying to do, I don't know, tickle me or something, and uh that sounds more nefarious

than it was. But I did learn how to fake cry, and he claims credit for that, but the actual vocality is something I had to work on UM and I continue to work on it actually because what I need from my instrument, from my voice, is I need it to be absolutely at my back and call for what I want to express emotionally and musically in theatricality theatrically, and so that's that takes a lot of technical work, very much like athletes that are trying to hone their

golf swing or tennis stars that are, you know, working on the tiny refinements to their serve to get that one extra mile per hour UM. And that's the kind of work I continue to do vocally. But I that really has been my end, the sort of engine behind what I do, because I've seen firsthand how transformative a

huge musical experiences for the human spirit. Maybe it's somebody who is discovering their voice for the first time, it's somebody who's listening to it and they're feeling things that the world doesn't normally allow them to feel in the course of their day. And I know that it's a force that can be extremely potent and extremely healing and

extremely transformative. And so that's why I continue to work, and that's why I choose my projects or create my projects today so that they invite people to go deeper then normal things in a modern society require of people. And I think it's it's genuinely where people want to go if they feel safe. They want to take that trip inside if they feel safe. And that's what music and the kind of music that you are engaged and can do to the human spirit lifted up in ways

that it can sore. And you talk about that so deeply, you know. I heard you talk about how this didn't come easily and how you have to work to keep your voice in good form. And I know you've also encountered many stumbling blocks in your career. At one time, you were told you didn't have much talent, which I find extremely hard to believe having listened to you and knowing of your extraordinary abilities. You couldn't get management until you were twenty nine. So how did you keep going?

That's a good question, you know. I um, I'm not sure how much of it was me and how much of it was a stubborn this and a frustration. That comment came to me when I was twenty six years old and I was on a At that point, I was starting to be on a track um a young artist track in the opera world, which means it's it's like the top apprenticeship before you land the big lawyer job or something. It's it it's you're not quite over the hump, but you're nearly there, and you're on a

track to get there. And of course it devastated me when that comment came in, But as I look back on it now, I know why it was made and it wasn't necessarily in error. It wasn't very kindly stated, but it was true because I I wasn't yet at a place where I had released a lot of my walls and a lot of my um the barriers I had constructed to protect myself. I mean, I'll tell you, there is very few things in life that are as frightening as opening up your voice without a microphone and

singing masterpieces in front of people live. You know. I we sing Mozart and Strauss and and shoe Berts and Rossini and handle and it's like a painter saying, here,

paint this Rembrandt live in front of us. If they're masterpieces that require great care and attention and reverence, but at the same time we have to make them feel as if they're being created on the spot with our voice, with all its limitations, with all its glory, with all its instabilities, with all its strength, everything, And we know

this when we speak. If you're asked to get up and speak in front of a crowd, your voice betrays every insecurity you have, every fear, every shape, every quiver, every dryness, every emotion. If you start to become emotional, your voice quivers. It is such a naked state of existence. And so then you you are bringing these masterpieces to life with your voice, and people are there to listen.

And it is an extreme state of vulnerability, and at the same time it requires complete and total abandoned and strength because you've got to project over seventy piece orchestra into it four thousand seat house. So it's this incredible battle between vulnerability and strength, between embracing where you are on that day, whether you rested well or had a good meal, or you might be a little under the

weather um and just putting yourself out there. And that is a long process to learn as a human being. I knew my music, I was technically proficient, but there was this personal barrier that was inhibiting my total expression. To come through, and that's why people were listening. Yeah the voice is fine, Yeah, her languages are good. She's fine, but there's not much talent. So I understand where that

comment came from. And I continued to work vocally, but I really believe that the real work was at a deeply personal level for me and continues to be. Senecas one hundred women to hear will be back after this short break. You know, Joyce, that was so fascinating and as I've been listening to you, you have this ability to fully understand what your work can do for someone sitting there in the audience, what it does to the

human soul, if you will. And I know you gave this extraordinary commencement speech at Juilliard where some of that came out, I think, and one of the messages that you had for the graduates was something very moving. You are here to serve humanity. What does that mean for a classical singer? Why did you say that? And how do you understand that? So? I said it for two reasons, um. The first is that I know that the road in classical music, in any arts, really, but certainly in classical music,

is quite tumultuous. It's incredibly demanding and difficult and all kinds of challenges and trying to get your music out in front of the public. It's even compounded now after you know COVID, it's even more treacherous in a way. But I wanted. I think one of the big issues I see in particular with singers and the singers that I don't tend to respond to emotionally, are the ones who make it all about themselves and are really trying to ultimately, I think, and I understand this. I'm sure

I went through this myself. They're looking for love. They're looking for the audience to tell them that they are good or even extraordinary, and that they are loved. And so they come onto the stage and their mindset is all about them and how they sound and how they look, and they're looking to the audience. They're doing these things to garner huge reception from the audience to say tell me I'm great. And I understand it. It's attempting, understandable thing,

especially when you're younger. That's not my kind of performer, and I don't think you have a right to do that.

I consider the stage is really a sacred place where again, you're dealing with masterpieces, and you're dealing with the extremity of the human condition, and especially in we need a space where we can explore that safely and where we can encourage people to aspire to what classical music can inspire, which is beauty, truth, participating in something that is bigger than yourself, that requires other people to get out of

your ego driven self. And what I found in my own journey is the more I concentrated on what I intended to give to the public, the easier it became for me, because it wasn't so dependent on whether I was liked or not, or whether I was good or not. But if I made them feel something, or even intended to make them feel something, whether it was a great show or not, I felt good about what I did.

And so I wanted to encourage that class and the other artists that go back and revisit that speech to say, actually, it's a good thing for you to get out of your own way and out of yourself and not make it about you. When you get onto the stage, every moment before that has to be about you. You have to be narcissistic in the way you prepare your voice, and the way you study and the way you take

care of your body. It takes a lot of personal attention, but all for the fact that when that curtain comes up, you are in service of the message of the beauty of the music and at this same time, so I wanted to give them a gift. But the second part of that is that I just really feel like it's what the world needs. What the world needs now is I mean, it's it's a little cheesy, but I really

believe it. You know, there are very few places left where people are invited in to feel something as a community, because an opera is still a community, communal experience of two thousand people, four thousand people, and there is power when people sit side by side from all different backgrounds, all different categories, and they agree to pretend for a couple of hours and be carried away, usually around a story about love or loss, and they collectively sort of

hold each other's hands through that. I want more of that in the world, and so that that is what I was trying to charge those students with as well. Beautiful and we all want to see more of that in the world. Needless to say, you know, the statement about you are here to serve humanity also reflects how you proceed in your own life, not just as the professional artists that you are, but I know you teach music, you do prison outreach. You're involved with something called the

Lullaby Project. Can you tell us about that and what inspired it? Oh, this is a fantastic project. UM. That was UM that I encountered through Carnegie Hall and their Wild Institute of Music. They do such tremendous work going into the community and it's sort of I love it because it turns that question of how do you get

to Carnegie Hall practice practice practice? It turns that question into how can Carnegie Hall get to you and not just the people that can afford opening night gala tickets, but to the people of the community here and beyond. And this is one of many programs that they have built up that I just am deeply inspired by. It was the idea of looking at different challenges in society and say, Okay, how can Carnegie Hall serve or help

and and to ameliorate this situation through music. And they were looking at the issue of teenage moms single teenage moms, and there was science around the issue that single teen moms have a much more challenging problem to connect and bond with their children for all the imaginable reasons. Financial, they're being shunned by society, stressed, they're also very young, and they came up with this idea of helping these

single moms write a lullaby for their child. And so they bring in a teaching assistant UM who will talk with the mom, get the mom to start sharing her feelings about her child, which turns in quite quickly to lyrics, and then they work all in the space of a couple hours. UM. By the time you leave that session, you have a song, and they get the song recorded, sometimes with the mother herself and sometimes with the performing artist,

and this becomes their lullaby to their child. It's deeply personal. It immediately bonds the mother and the child, and you have the inherent tranquility, comforting world of a lullaby that is centuries old, um. But it becomes deeply personal and it's been an incredible gift in life to have participated in it. Along the way you see women there is steam skyrockets. There. Esteem as a mother, but also as a human being in the world skyrockets. That child has

a more deeper connection to the mother. And it sounds like a very sort of superficial and endeavor, and it's quite the opposite. It is literally transformative and it's incredible. And this now, this project has been blueprinted and it is across the world. Now I've done some work with a refugee camp in Greece through El Systema Greece, and they gave a concert a year ago, working with the mothers in this refugee camp writing lullabies in all different

languages for their children. And they in this refugee camp in Scar Scaramada's refugee camp Athens, they gave a concert. The mothers gave a concert of their lowabye songs. So this is why I'm a believer. Oh my god, anybody should be a believer after listening to that, and this project should be taken to scale all over the world. It sounds just extraordinary, really profound. It is, and I'll tell you it's the best investment any organization could make.

It's clear because that's the fundamental mother to child. It's the foundation for everything. It ain't rocket science. And as you explained, what it does for the mother's self esteem and her her mother ring and so much more. You know, as happens far too often in this process, we're really out of time. But I want to ask you one more question, because you're clearly such a deep person, uh, and we can hear in this conversation how you see

the work that you do. There's so much turmoil in our world today, there's so much upset and people are struggling to have hope. Really, what gives you hope? What makes you optimistic? You know, there are a lot of places I turned to for hope. At the start of the lockdown two and a half years ago, it was springtime and I went home and I was able to actually be home for the first time where I was watching first time in my adult life twenty some years now.

I was watching the flowers pop out of the ground that I had planted, and I thought, you know, these flowers are just doing what they do. They don't know about a pandemic. They don't know about insurrections, they don't know about division, they don't know about economic disparity. They're

just doing what they do. And I found that to be an incredible source of hope about the natural world, that these turmoils human turmoils rise and fall, rise and fall, and they cycle around both as a society and in your own life, and yet that natural world just keeps going. I find hope in children and working with them and seeing their incredible creative force that is so present when they're young, until society just sanitizes it out of them

in many cases, thankfully not all cases. But that gives me incredible hope. But I think the reason I have hope is I've decided to have it. I've made a decision not to become cynical, because I think cynicism is a death knell and I don't want that. I used to live with rose colored glasses all the time and sort of, you know, put on blinders, and I don't do that anymore. I'm aware of what's happening in a more profound way than I used to be. But I

still every day I decide to be hopeful. And the minute that decision is made, I can see hope around me in the flower, in the child, in the smile from a stranger, in the conversation with the taxi driver where the ice melts. But I think for me, the critical point is that decision I refuse to become cynical. I won't allow that of myself. What an extraordinary way to end an extraordinary conversation. Thank you so much, Joyce de Donado, for who you are and for the magic

and miracle of your music. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you. It's really my honor. Thank you. What a profound and moving conversation. Joyce de Donado's words will stay with me for a long time. Here are three things I took from that conversation. First, Joyce shows the power of persistence. She admits that she didn't really come into her own as a singer until her early thirties, but she was determined to master her art because, she says, I felt there was something inside

that I was destined to express. Second, as she reminds us, we are all put on this earth to serve, and we each have to find our own unique way to do that. As an opera singer, Joyce saw she could help others by working with the Lullaby Project, for which single mothers create and record songs for the of children. Finally, let's emulate Joyce's decision to choose to be hopeful. Cynicism, she says, is a death knell, but we can't live

with blinders on either. Instead, we can be aware of what's happening around us every day and then take the path of optimism and action. Joyce de Donado appears in The Hours at the Met through December. If you can't make it to New York City, catch the live broadcast of The Hours in Theaters on December ten. Get more information at met Opera dot org, and tune in next time to care about our next featured woman and discover

why she's one of Seneca's Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner P and G. Have a great day, m HM.