You know that idea of there are so many women's stories who know that have never been told they need to be told, and so I guess you know, really it was about leaving people feeling with hope. And then they say, you know, there's that saying you should never meet your heroes and they're gonna disappoint you. But you know, the opposite was true. Every every single one of these women proved to be even more wonderful in real life.
That was Dylan McGee and Sarah will Itski, the women behind the amazing new film Not Done, Women Remaking America. I'm a land Revere and this is Seneca's One Women to Hear. We are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making women you need to hear. The documentary Not Done comes at a moment when the
world is recognizing the power of women's leadership. Women who lead countries are being praise for their handling of COVID, and there are more women's CEOs than ever In the Fortune five hundred, women's leadership is on full display, and Not Done. In dozens of interviews with women leaders, the filmmakers show how women are at the forefront of progress towards equality and inclusion in a new phase of the
women's movement. Not Done is a maker's film by Verizon Media and McGhee Media, and the film is supported by PNG. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Not Donne's executive producer Dylan McGhee and its director Sarah Willitsky. Listen and learn why. Dylan McGee and Sarah Willitsky are two of Seneca's Women to hear. Let's start with you, Dylan. You are the executive producer of Not Done. It truly an incredibly powerful film about the modern women's movement. What
was your goal in making it? And what did you want people to come away with as you were thinking about it and doing it? Ah, Milan so many things. First of all, Not Done is part of a larger brand that I found it called Makers UM. And you
know Makers really began UM. Just the the quick story behind it was that I, you know, my background is filmmaking UM and I had done UM a lot of films on UM, on white presidential men UM and a lot of African American history, but I hadn't really done anything that that was you know about my story UM anyway,
So one stop shopping. I thought, well, I'm gonna do something on women and I'm going to go to Gloria Steinham and I got HBO, but him me and we went to Gloria Steinham and we said, we're going to do a film in your Life for HBO and she said no. Um, she said, you know, you can't tell the story of the women's movement through the story of one person. And that sort of changed everything for me. You know, that idea of there are so many women's stories who you know that have never been told, that
need to be told. And so, you know, makers really started with a mission to tell and document an archive women's stories. Um. And when we started, we actually did
a hundred interviews. Short form YouTube had just started, and we did these short form videos on groundbreaking women from Oprah Winfrey and Hillary Clinton to you know, some of the first female firefighters in New York City, so the known and unknown, and then that was and then we did we used those hundred interviews to tell the story of the modern American women's movement from the nineteen sixties and Betty for Dance, feminine mystique all the way up
to uh Cheryl Sandberg's Lenin had just come out, So it was this story we we'd like to say it's a documentary and reverse, but it was. So it was
the story of the modern women's movement. And then you know, Sarah has been a part of all of these and um, you know, it felt like from where we left off to you know, let's say, from you know, the last election to today, so much had happened in the women's movement and we wanted to so if the original documentary is three hours, we felt like, let's let's add an hour, you know, let's do uh, let's do a series that really shows how the women's movement has been invigorated in
many ways. It's so it's been so different, uh, in the past five years. Um. And so really that was the vision behind it. It was it was telling today's history. And and and I think you said, you know what do we want people to leave thinking and doing? And one of the hard things about tell in history that's happening as you're living it is that there's not a lot of perspective. It's like, all these things are happening
and you're like, are they linked? But I think you know what Sarah did so brilliantly in directing this film, is that she showed, you know, there there is this progression and there is this hope when you see you know how the Women's March leads into me too, and then times up gets created and then there's this ripple effect in the elections. You know, you just see these that every action has a purpose, And so I guess you know, really it was about leaving people feeling with hope.
Well that's always a good feeling to leave people with, particularly these days. But I wanted to ask Sarah, given the passion that Dylan just expressed in what's been happening in the movement today? I mean, it's been a time of extraordinary achievement in many ways and finally making a difference on so many issues. But let's not forget your film came out in a year when we're celebrating a hundred years of women's suffrage. So how did the suffrage
movement help shape your thinking? Because obviously we're still on this journey together and I love the title because we are not done, And I think that should be your motto. You've been you've been telling us that for a long time. Well, so, so back to the suffrage movement. How did that influence Uh, you're thinking about the film, Sarah, Um, and what else was an influence on you? We heard from Dylan. Now
let's hear your side. Yeah. Well, you know, we we were very much aware that you know, we were making it in the hundredth anniversary of the nineteenth Amendment. Uh and and in some ways that that was probably a good peg for us getting funding and um, you know, and and getting some interest in it being made. But
you know, it's ultimately the films on about suffrage. But I think that was a good sort of anchor point for us in terms of, you know, being really conscious of how long this change takes to make and knowing that you know, people were working for suffrage for a hundred years before suffrage and then here we were a hundred years later. Um and uh, well now we've just
gotten our first female vice president. But you know, um that there We've a lot had changed, but you know, there were still so many problems that women were wrestling with. It in some ways are more nuanced, right because they're not as obvious as um as just not having the right to vote. Um. But that in some ways that makes them even more intractable. UM, and that UM, thinking about that history and women who just had that perseverance to keep fighting and recognize that we're not done exactly
and have to keep working for it. And I think, you know, another way that that definitely packed us is also thinking about you know, we say the hundredth anniversary women getting the right to vote, but you know, really it was the hundredth anniversary of mostly white women getting the right to vote, right, and it took another forty five years for um, black women to be more included
in that. And also keeping in mind, you know, as we know more of the history of the suffrage UM suffrage movement, that there was a lot of tension around um, you know, uh black women in that movement and uh, and kind of thinking about the women's movement and the evolution from then to now, UM, and kind of seeing the last few years as hopefully a stage that has
finally become a more intersectional movement. UM. You know, no movement as perfect as Trees Colors says in our film, but the promise was a more intersectional movement, and so it was really important to us include especially in thinking about it as you know, this hundred anniversary to be making a film that represented that, um and that you know, didn't take as its starting point. Um that this has
always been a perfect and diverse movement. But UM, but looking at how the you know, the face of the movement is changing now and so some of you know, some of our startings to my starting points and influences. Was also like rereading Audrey Lord and uh, Brandy Cooper's wonderful more recent book Um Eloquent Rage Um or Rebecca Traycer's wonderful book UM, Good and Mad and you know, which has a lot of that great history and contemporary history.
So you created this incredible tapestry, some of which you just described. And Dylan, I'm going to ask you next. Not Done came out on PBS in late October, and I'm wondering how was it received and was it what you expected? On Asleep Milan, I think it was better than I expected. That's always good. I mean, you know, I always go you know, I think you go into these films with knots in your stomach of how it's going to be received by the public. And honestly, I
felt a real sense of confidence on that part. I think Sarah did such a brilliant job of you know, again producing while you're living. It is very hard and finding this this thread of you know, the power of organizing and the intersectionality and the movement. I felt so proud of this film going into it. But you know this as someone who has been fighting this fight for a long time. So many incredible women work every day, so many of us are driven by this feeling of
not being done. There are there is so much that has happened just in the last five years. I mean, with this film could have been it's you know, another three hours like our original three hours. So I was actually most nervous about how women who have been fighting this fight we're going to feel if their story wasn't represented in this um And you know how people how would be amazing women's soccer team that worked so hard, you know, and for fighting for equal pay. You know
that wasn't in it. Uh, the incredible next generation of you know, the Greta's and you know, we we do briefly cover a young activist Kakata Iron Eyes and who's amazing, but you know, we really didn't get into the excitement of the next generation. So I was just focused on what was missing and what we're you know, so what were people going to say about that? And what again the power of women and you know, our unity as a sisterhood. People really said. It wasn't oh you forgot this,
you forgot this? It was how can I help? How can I get this out into the world. And so I think that sort of warmed my heart the most. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I got a couple of emails. They're always a few couple call outs, but you know, I think people are feeling there's just a sense of it's you know, we were living through a lot right now and people are feeling helpless. And I do think just people were able to see the you
know force through the treats that there's there is. You know, I think it restored some hope, as I said earlier, and when we come together we can clearly make a difference. Yes, very much. That's a big theme in the film. So, as both of you have said, Dylan starting out talked about Gloria Steynham and Sarah you mentioned a few of the other notables. Uh, the film is amazing in many ways, but it does have an extraordinary cast of women of achievement,
who are part of this extory ordinary movement? Um, and you spot light them and it's a very impressive list, and I wonder sometimes it's like asking who is your favorite child. It's not a fair question, but of all the women, UM, I want to ask both of you this who were the most memorable? Perhaps in different ways.
Well that, as you say, that is an unfair question, is like your favorite children, and it it you know, this film is like the cast as you would say, is you know personal heroes list of mine and they say, you know that there's that saying you should never meet your heroes and they're gonna disappoint you. But you know, the opposite was true. Every every single one of these women proved to be even more wonderful in real life.
So it's very hard to say. I mean, you know, as a as a TV kid, meeting people like Shonda Rhimes and her being so normal and wonderful as a thrill. Um. You know it's I think that what sort of stood out to me on the overall is um it was sort of the bookends of the first shoot and our last shoot, or at least I should say our first in person shoot and last in person shoot because we did do a couple remote interviews when we got into
the covid Um period of time. But so you know there, our very first shoot day was centered around UM Kimberly Crunshaw, who is just uh, you know, lifelong incredible feminist and civil rights scholar and lawyer, UM and who is the person who actually coined the word intersectionality way back at the end of the eighties. And so for her to be the first and then the last shooting day involved a Glorious Steinham who obviously you can't get better than
that UM and a Dylan mentioned her before. But Jakada iron Eyes, who we couldn't tell her full story in the film, but she's m a young climate justice and indigenous activist, was a big part of this Standing Rock protests UM in sixteen. And you know, so after Gloria Steina,
the bar set pretty high. But she just came in and floored our entire crew, you know, like she's totally typical gigly sixteen year old and then you know, just sat down for an interview and was like, I she can't even say wise beyond her years because she was much smarter than most of the adults I've ever I've ever met, but I just left us with us a tremendous amount of hope that, um, if if young women like her or even her alone, are are you know,
leading this next generation, and then we're going to be okay because they get it much more than then you know, the adults in the room. I you know what, I'm going to be a little more. Uh. You know, they are all of our favorite children, and of course we love them all. But there is, um, there is a moment in the in the film. I'm a big, big, big fan girl of Britney Cooper, who Sarah mentioned is
a black scholar and has written this amazing book, Eloquent Rage. Um. That's sort of a coming of age of and finding her black feminism. Um. And she's a professor at Rutgers, and she is you know, one of the things. You know, we we made this film in the middle we were almost I would say what Sarah done. When COVID happened.
Our air date was supposed to be in June and we had to completely adapt, and so we did do a couple of our story had to change, and um, Brittany came in and we did a remote one of our two I think it was two remote interviews, and um,
she just lights up the screen. And one of the things, one of the moments in the film that I love is she starts talking about UM Olivia Pope and Scandal, you know, Shonda Rhymes is UM series and how she and her friends would gather and they would tweet with each other, and it was so exciting to watch this um black female lead who was you know, fully complex character, UM, and how is a game changer for her, you know,
and all her friends. And I just you know that that idea I think black women, you know, I think there's a line in that I can't remember who says it, but you know, like black women are really rocking it entertaining to Atlicia Garza. Yeah, and uh and and I think this story of representation obviously matters so much. And and honestly, I just can't help myself but mentioned that, you know, we're this is our Our film was supported by Proper and Gamble who and they're doing all this
incredible unapologetic work. UM it really ending gender bias and came behind, you know, got behind this film in such a powerful way. And it's you know, brands like that, and you know this seeing is believing, right, So when you can see yourself up on the screen, you know, it's it changes everything. I mean, look at look at Kamala. I mean, I just I feel for all those you know, like those young girls out there who can now see
themselves as um a vice president. So that's just a really powerful moment for me and I love pretty good well that that's well said, and I and salute to a PNG as well, because we see equal is certainly something that they have really put forward in a very serious way, and we're all indebted to the company for its extraordinary example in this space. I think senecas one hundred Women to hear will be back after the short break, so that women are clearly memorable to both of you
and will continue to be. Was there a particular lesson that I can ask each of you that you took
from from the work as a whole or from anyone individual. Well, I'm, I mean, I'm you have me thinking now about being you know, on set and doing these interviews, and I think one of the things that I think it was maybe a little surprised actually that came through so strongly with all of these incredible women we were talking to, whether in some ways, whether it was you know, Jodi Cantor and Megan Tooey at the New York Times, or you know, these veteran activists like um Linda stars Or
who helped organize the you know, First Women's March, is one of the co chairs or Treats Colors who I mentioned, who's one of the founder of Black Lives Matter, And you know, they're like, especially the activists are women who are involved in these really difficult struggles and ah, but they were so such joyful people and so clearly you know,
motivated out of love and community. And you know, I think, and you know, anger is present for all of these women, and you know, outrage and anger definitely useful emotions and can spark a lot of useful UM activism and confuel people to an extent. But it really was really clear that it was it was joy and sisterhood or siblinghood that was necessary to kind of whether the inevitable setbacks and frustrations that you know, you have as you're trying
to make change. UM. And so I think in person and then and then in the sort of when we step back and we're making the film. You know. UM. I think one of the things, as you mentioned before Milanny, that really really came through was UM. You know how important that that power of sisterhood ultimately is UM in terms of sustaining UM any of the fight that you know needs to be sustained if we ever really do
make change. I think that's a wonderful lesson Sarah for all of us at Sally to think about, Dylan, how about you. My lesson really came more off the screen. I think it's UH believing in women actually making the film UM pays and dividends. You know, it's another sisterhood. Sarah is a first time director and she was given a chance and she took that baton and she ran
with it. And I mean the first film out of the Gates in its extraordinary, And you know, I feel like it's we have to do representation externally and we also have to be very intentional. UM. You know our crew UH was majority women. UM and UH. You know again, another brand that we need to be grateful for is Verizon because it was the Verizon Future Fund that allowed us to hire Sarah. You know, they're investing in UM
merging artists and technology and and entertainment. And it's it's again when you can give someone an opportunity and UM and watch them all grow that UM, it pays off. So, you know, trusting and believing and being intentional around getting women behind the tree. I think in nineteen there were only something like I don't have the exact statistic book of UM female directors directed the top one grossing films and and I think there's only been one woman so far.
Who was you know, one UM an Academy Award for Best Director. So uh so my lesson learned is, you know, keep pushing, keep getting more women behind the camera. And Delan you should explain it was not just me, but we made this film with the almost exclusively female crew you know above the line and below the line as they say, so you know on our sets, the camera woman or their cinematographer, our sound person or gaffer grip, everybody you know, UM, everybody around UM was either female
or non binary. And UM you know also on our production team and are incredible producer Ali Moss and our editor Madriana Pacheco, and UM, you know it was it was an exceptional experience. You know, we're working with Dylan and at makers on the Mickey Media. We've already have you know, have moved to a at least fifty fifty year predominantly female UM teams. But this was a special one that we decided to really commit to UM to being almost you know, exclusively UM female, UM or non binary.
And Jana shout out honestly to the maker's men, right, because that makes a difference to you know, Mark Portard at PNG, Diego Scottie at Verizon, like you know, they became our maker's men who you know, helped push this forward and allowed us to make our dreams come true. We do need our male allies and absolutely, but Sarah, kudos to you for your your first venture here being so successful. What would you like to do next? What? What? What? What's the next film? I don't have I don't have
a great answer yet. There are you know, lots of things UM. I mean one of the things that you know this film I've taught us and Dylan mentioned this already, is that you know, there were so much that we couldn't fit into this film or the stories actually that we did tell in the film, each one of them
could have been their own. You know future length film. UM, so you know, they're just I think there's so many, UM, there's so many stories, especially um women's stories that need to be told and that you know, there's been such an imbalance for for hundreds of years now, UM in the arts and in storytelling around you know, male centered um stories that it's going to take a while to um you know, tip it back. UM. So I there's some things bubbling. I can't give an exact answer yet,
but well, that's perfectly fine. As the title of the film says, you know, we're we're not done, and one of the ways we're not done is in telling a lot more women's stories. Well, as I said at the outset, I think it's a perfect title, perfect title for the movement. And I think realizing it's not done, let me ask what makes both of you optimistic about the future. Will we get it done? We still on a long road to achieving gender equality. So how do you see it
from your vantage point? Well, I mean a lot of the things that you know, I think we see in the film and that we've talked about make me hopeful. The amount of people you know back in the streets, glorious kind of the tests that she's never seen as much activism, you know, in her life, and that's hopeful. I think seeing um, the country willing to elact our first female vice president and a woman of color at that makes me hopeful. UM. And I think, you know,
I had the chance to do this really wonderful. Um. The only time, in fact, I've been able to we've been able to screen the film in person. Was this like a block party that my cousin's wonderful Block Association
and Harlem hosted the other week. Uh you know, so there was just a handful of people outside with an outdoor projector, but there were amongst the pretty diverse group of ages and people watching the film or you know, two young boys, maybe around ten years old, who remarkably sat pretty glued in their seats for um, you know,
most of the hour. So I think seeing you know, boys honestly at that age absorbed this and thinking about a younger generation who you know, hopefully will grow up with a lot of this, just being common sense, UM and and being curious. You know, I think that's there's so many ways that it's important that um, you know, we have male allies and that they're able to also have their own gender revolution. But but you know, I think it all starts with that curiosity and openness. And
I am encouraged that. Um that you know that even very young generation is growing up in that way. I mean, yeah, I'll build on that. I have to sons sixteen and eighteen, two little feminist boys, or they're not boys anymore, their men um and Uh. While there are a lot of feminist jokes that go on in our hustled believe me, I don't get. I get. I get the benefits of these incredible young men. Uh. And I also get the
brunt of them growing up in a feminist household. Um. But actually watching this election as complicated as it was as um, I think their generation was engaged in politics and understanding the shoes and a way that I never was when I was in high school and early college. And so I'm I'm hopeful, um In I'm hopeful in those that next generation of of of being engaged. Well, that's good reason to be hopeful. And let me ask, how can anyone of our listeners get to see Not Done?
So listeners can go to Not Done film dot Com, where it's available. It's also available on PBS dot org for a couple more weeks, Um, and Uh, you can also find it at makers dot com. Okay, well those are three good options. Uh. And I can't thank you both enough, not just for this wonderful conversation, Dylan McGee and Sarah Willinski, but for what you have come together to create Not Done. A powerful film, and we encourage everybody listening to take it in. Thank you both, Thank you, Milan,
thank you so much, so inspiring. We can learn so much from the women creating change all around us. Here are just a few of the points I took from the conversation. First, women's leadership is powerful, and women working together are unstoppable. They can help create that progress that leads to equality. Second, women's voices need to be heard
and women's perspectives need to be seen. When we put women behind the camera as directors, writers, and cinematographers, we can see things in a fresh new way, and finally, to see just how impactful that vision can be. Watch the new documentary Not Done. Go to Nut Done film dot com or makers dot com. It is also available until November on PBS dot org and tune in next Thursday to hear about our next featured Woman and discover
why she's one of Seneca's one Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG. If you like what you heard on the show, rate and review it on Apple Podcasts, we hope you'll join us for our next episode of one hundred Women to Hear, where we can all listen, learn and get inspired. Have a great day.