Dr. Paula Johnson: Cardiologist, Researcher, President of Wellesley

the first African American woman to do so. But that's just one of her many first I'm a land Verviere and this is Seneca's on Women to Hear. Were bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making women you need to hear. Before joining Wellesley, Dr Johnson was already a groundbreaker in women's health. She holds two degrees from Harvard, both an m d. And a

master's in public health. As a cardiologist at Brigham and Women's Hospital, she founded the Conner Center for Women's Health and Gender Biology. Her research into gender differences in medicine has been eye opening. She was one of the first to question whether women were being overlooked when it came to cardiac care, and her work was the basis for her popular Ted talk his and her healthcare. Listen and learn why Dr Paula Johnson is one of Seneca's One

Women to Hear. I'm here today with Dr Paula Johnson, the President of Wellesley, and I am thrilled to be with her. She is so remarkable in every way that I'm eager to have you and our audience land come to know her better as well. So, Dr Johnson, maybe we can start by my mentioning the fact that you're an internationally recognized researcher, educator, cardiologist, health policy expert, and you've dedicated your career to transforming the health of women.

But since two thousand and sixteen, you've been the president of Wellesley College. So I'm wondering, is there a common thread that runs through this remarkable career. Milan. Let me just begin by telling by just saying that it is so wonderful to be here with you. Let me just say that, you know, I would say the through line really in my life is a deep commitment to improving women's lives, and a good portune of my career was spent in really focusing on women's health and well being.

And you know, with that in academic medicine, there's there's really a commitment to education, both educating young professionals but also educating women with regard to their health. And I think you know, after uh an over thirty year career in academic medicine, you know, coming to Wellesley, you know

the focus here on education and the development of young women. Um, where we're focused on their development, how we can embrace the diversity of the young women here, and also how we think about the role of the college as really the premier women's college, How we think about the role of the college looking outward as we think about the roles of women in the world. Well, that's a very clear common thread and I can see how your career has evolved to this point today. Was there something in

your background? Was there some something catalytic when you grew up that brought you to this place in life When I look back, I'm from Brooklyn, New York, and UM, I would say that my mother, Grace Johnson, had a

a tremendous influence on me. She was truly a fierce believer in the power of education, and she was also deeply committed to civic engagement UM, an engagement in terms of engagement in the neighborhood, in our Brooklyn neighborhood or the neighborhoods that we we lived in, UM as well as in our public schools, in terms of really being on the front lines to ensure that her daughters, I have one sister, one younger sister, got the kind of education and that all kids got the kind of education

that she felt a public system should provide. UM. And I should add that, you know, one of her dreams was to go to college, and she finished college the year after I finished medical school, So there's clearly perseverance there as well. And you know, the other woman in my life was my maternal grandmother, Louise Young, who really UM, you know, she struggled with depression for a good part of her life. UM. She helped to inform my decision to enter medicine and really pushing forward on this issue

of discovering how women and men experienced disease differently. But what I can say about both of them is that I learned a lot about resilience. But I also learned that the particularly positive impact of a strong belief in your abilities when someone else has that strong belief and then you absorb that. I think that, UM, you know, my mother had a tremendous early belief in me the potential to basically do whatever I wanted to do, and UM that I think has really impacted me, both in

medicine and for sure in higher education. How we approach each student, how we approach the potential in uh in for in my case, uh in women, UM that is limitless with the ability that that our students should flourish. So I think I really trace it, um back to back to my childhood and then having those experiences of

um of mentors throughout my life. Ruth Hubbard, who was the first tenured biology professor at Harvard, was an early mentor and somebody who saw in me what I don't think I could have seen at at that early stage. So you never know where those touch points are and what sparks uh kind of an idea or a belief UM in in the young people that you interact with.

So beautifully said, and you know, the touch points of a parent or or a mentor UM just really important and reinforcing that from your own experience, I think is an important lesson in and of itself. So you've devoted much of your scientific and medical career to athering knowledge of the biological differences between women and men, which is so fascinating. What do your finding show and how is

this knowledge important? Well, you know, it's it's a very interesting Milan that when I started my career over thirty years ago, UM, we really had hardly any data on

women's health beyond their reproductive function. And you know, I trace my curiosity as an investigator back again to that early mentor Ruth Hubbard, who turned her her more basic science career into one of really looking at issues of women in science and UM it really sparked an interest in me to better understand not only the role of women in medicine, but also let's understand how science does or does not represent women and UM Through that, you know,

basically over twenty five years ago, it was really the first legislation past under President Clinton to include women UH and minorities in phase three, meaning later phase clinical trials.

And with that, what we began to learn is that women and men can express and experience health and disease differently, and UM, women and men metabolized drugs differently, They have different experiences, and the health care system which impacts their health and their lived experience also impacts their health differently.

So and then you overlay issues like race, ethnicity, and you know, the story evolves and um, you know the implications of this knowledge are really enormous because what we've learned is that UM various diseases can be expressed differently. And when you don't include women in the science all the way from the basic science to the clinical trials, that we mishalf the population and we don't necessarily get

the answer that is the right answer for women. UM. Let me just give you an example, UM, in heart disease. So that's my my specialty. We know that women and men can experience different symptoms. We know that certain risk factors are different for women, for for coronary artery disease or narrowing of the arteries in the heart. We know that there are certain um aspects of heart disease that

look different. For example, when a woman has a heart attack, the vessels and the heart can look different than the vessels in a male who has a heart attack. And some of the medications that we use, for example, to prevent heart attacks are experienced differently with regard to side effects, and and that isn't even adding issues of uh, the

impact of pregnancy on risk for heart disease. So, in all of that that I've just said in the past minute or so, imagine if we didn't study women, or if women weren't included in the studies, And that in fact was the case over thirty years ago. So we've we've been able to learn a lot, but there's so much more because women are still underrepresented. Frequently the data are not presented in a way that we understand the

impact in women, UM and UH. And so there's a lot more to learn and a lot more to understand about various diseases and in fact how to best prevent and treat them UM in women and men. It's really interesting and and it's so impactful because if you don't look at it in a sex disaggregated way, you're really

not addressing the differences in half the population. I remember hearing once that the experiments on low dose aspirin visa vi um retarding heart disease we're done on men and yet being prescribed to women without knowing if it would

have the same impact. Is that correct? Oh well, Milan, you're you're bringing up the uh, the Physician's Heart study and UM, it was a study that was actually spearheaded out of my home institution, my former home institution, Bring Them In Women's Hospital, which is one of the premier Harvard teaching institutions. And it was that study that really sparked the movement to make a change at the NIH.

And in fact, it was a group of legislators, women legislators that came into Congress on the heels of the Clarence Thomas Anita Hill hearings. It was kind of the first year of the woman and they recognized it was when that study was published that they recognized it had only been done in men, and this spurred them on to actually um work to get this legislation passed in NIH Revitalization Act. So, you know, I think it's important on a couple of levels, which is not only is

the representation of women UM important in science. And when I say women, I'm talking here about women in trials, but also UM, women in pre clinical trials, female cells, and female animals in all types of research. But representation matters UM in all sectors because imagine if we didn't have that year the woman and we didn't have that whole cohort of women elected to Congress, we might have really it might have been another who knows, twenty years

before that legislation had been passed. And you know, fast forward. Guess what when the trial was done and it wasn't that long ago, maybe ten years ago or so tip fifteen years ago the trial that looked at the impact of low dose aspirin for preventing heart attacks and women. Guess what the impact is different? Low dose aspirin is only impactful for women over the age of six, and it mainly prevents stroke, not heart attack. Interesting, so there

is a fundamental difference. We don't understand the mechanism and the why. There's still a lot of work to do, but you know, we have, uh, those women in Congress and Pat Schroeder was really one of the leaders Representative Schroeder. So I think it's a great story. It's a great story, and it is um something that is as important today as it was when we were first getting into this. So um Dr Johnson went to becoming president Johnson, what was it like? How did you make the change from

being in medicine so deeply to the academy. Not that they're unrelated, but it must have been something you thought long and hard about before you made the change. Oh absolutely, Um. You know, I've been in academic medicine. I was a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, and I was also a professor of epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. And you know, kind of fast forward for years.

Who would have thought that that background would have been as helpful as it is today in the middle of a pandemic UM. But you know, initially, uh, you know, I was quite happy and we were doing really excellent work UM in the in academic medicine UM. And you know, the opportunity came to begin to think about came to me to think about higher education, and I thought obviously

long and hard UM about it. And you know, when you enter a process like this, you you enter it with a tremendous amount of exploration and of course interest. But I would say that as the process moved on, it became more and more convinced that this UM really was an important next step UM in my career and in my life, and that the again that through line of improving the lives of women in advancing women that um that this could now be taken to a different

environment with a different mission, but one that was equally powerful. UM. And I think you know, for me, Wellesley College, given my work and women's health, was was a very powerful draw. So it hasn't been you know, as large of a jump in terms of of course, medicine is different from higher ed, but I think the the academic part has

has a lot of similarities. And I would just also add that I think as we um think about bringing an ethic of care to this environment, UM that when we think about the fact that the recognition for students that, like everyone thrive when they're fully seen for who they are, I think is a direct connection to my work in medicine, and that as I've worked with this younger cohort of women, it's, to be honest, just a lot of fun. The faculty of phenomenal I'm learning a tremendous amount and the the

young women who are not yet formed. They don't exactly know what they're doing yet, they don't know what they want to do, or they think they might know, but things change. It's an exciting time of life. With a lot of opportunity as well as with many many challenges, and to lead a college um and really see both the discovery and with regard to the research, but to see young people, young women in particular, grow and develop. It is It's both an honor and such a joy

and the rewards of being a mentor. Absolutely Seneca has one hundred women to hear will be back after the short break. Well I happen to know firsthand that you're doing just an exceptional job at Wellesley, and so many people comment on it favorably. I've often wondered what the secret sauce of Wellesley is. I happen to know two of the three female secretaries of State who went to Wellesley, so one college produced two of the three U s

Secretaries of State. I used to ask them if it was the water at Wellesley or what it was, because, uh, there is something about Wellesley and women's leadership that really has impact. Well Milan, You're you're you're so right, and I just want to say, uh, both for Secretary Albright and Secretary Clinton, that um, they are just um you know, uh, we are so proud of them and and so many of our alumni who are in public life, who are

in civic life. It's truly remarkable. UM. I also want to say that we take credit for all three women who have been Secretaries of State, and I'll tell you why. It's because Secretary Albright's father was a mentor to Condoleeza Rice. So I think we have a right to to take I think we have a right to take credit for

all three. Um. But but in all seriousness, UM, I think that you know, it's often assumed in terms of Wellesley's founding that it came into being simply because women lacked opportunity, you know, for higher for higher education in the late eighteen hundreds. But there was really a different compelling vision for Wellesley by its founderis it was for

democracy and equal opportunity. And Pauline and Henry Durant, who were are founders, UM, they really felt strongly the nation's future could only be secured through vastly expanded access to childhood education and that future would require teachers, UM. And that they founded the college to not only produce teachers

to impact democracy in the next generation. But they also founded Wellesley on the premise that women uh needed um the highest quality and rigorous education UH, and also that there was this combination of mind and body that they focused on in terms of UH being physically fit as well as as that really impacting UM, your your intellectual performance. So it's it's just I think it's it's really a

uniquely empowering environment for women. I mean, it's one of the few places on Earth where the buildings, the quads, the programs, they're all they all bear the name of women. UM. Wellesley has always had women leadership UM, and our faculty is fifty women. And that is in many of the fields, in all the fields that have underrepresentation of women, like economics, like the STEM fields, particularly computer science, the quantity tative areas.

So our young women are able to see themselves and they're able to imagine and to dream from a very early phase of life. And I think in this they have learned how to take on leadership UM and they've done it very powerfully. And the question always comes, well does that really inhibit you in the next phase when you are with men, And the answer is no. What it does is create a very strong foundation that I think then allows you to launch UM really into into

the future. Well, I've certainly seen that in all of the younger women in particular who I've been privileged to work with over the years. They have that sense of having been empowered and have confidence and certainly the capacity to do the work that they are engaged in. You know, single sex higher education has been controversial in some quarters. Uh, and it's obviously not for everybody, but there are so many benefits, UM. You described some of them. Do you

want to expand on that a little bit? Yeah, I think that, UM. You know, we are I think right now in our country, UM and in the world at a threshold moment for women's leadership, and UM. You know, I think there's been advancement, but there are also places where women's rights are at stake in ways that we

wouldn't have imagined, UM. And so you know, it's it's interesting that the need for or women leaders UM, women leaders who we know from the data and I know, millenniare you are so focused rightfully, so on what is the proof? What is the evidence that we look at, and we know that women's leadership UM is so impactful both at the local level, at the state level, at the at the country level. And that's I'm here now

talking internationally. UM. So the need to really uh produce not only strong women and women who lead with ethics, um, but the need to also represent as an institution that type of leadership I think is critical. Um. You know, it's it's interesting because most of our students are a majority of our students come to us, come to Wellesley

because we are an outstanding liberal arts college. And but you know, when they arrive and when they access the curriculum in ways that are truly liberating with you know, if you look at two of our most popular majors are economics and neuroscience, with computer science rapidly growing as well. What I would say is that by the time they're leaving Wellesley, they are convinced that having this opportunity in

in this environment has been liberating. And um, you know, I would say that it is truly this mindset that is uh fostered fostered at Wellesley. So, um, it's a you know, as we move forward, you know what is

the next level. The next level is to make sure that all of the young women on our campus, whatever their background, we are need blind and we're very proud of that, whatever their background, whatever whether their first generation or if they're underrepresented minorities, um or have a very significant financial challenges, that they have a strong sense of belonging, that they have a strong sense of their ability to flourish, and that when they leave, they have a strong sense

of not only their possibility, but also their civic duties and their duty to kind of passing it on in the world. And what I would say that is, um I think it's very powerful and really a characteristic of Wellesley, but I think also a characteristic of of women's colleges. Well, it's certainly something that you inculcate which is then manifested in your graduate It's and i and and liberating as

well as empowering. I remember one Wellesley alumna saying to me, well, nobody was there to tell us we didn't belong in science or math, so you just you know, you took off. That's right, and and really did well, you know, it's it's you know, at Wellesley and as students find the confidence that comes from practicing their own leadership and their own leadership that is not constrained and that I think really develops a strength that uh that is I do

think um unparalleled. Let me go back to something we're all dealing with today, and that is COVID. It seems to be an omnipresence um everywhere, and I wonder what its impact has been at Wellesley. I presume that your work as a physician has really been called upon in terms of decisions you've been making at the college. How are you responding students on campus? How are you coping

with all of this? I would say that you're right about my background in medicine and public health being of value and being in the same city in which I was in academic medicine, which really has allowed UM allowed

me to tap into a number of resources. But but I'm let me just begin by talking about higher ed in Massachusetts because I think it's really a model for the country, and I'm so proud of to be part of this higher education community because what we did was we really came together as a community and worked together on behalf of all of us. It wasn't just those who are well endowed versus those who are not. We really worked together to one developed the evidence space protocols

based on the best science. Actually, we met weekly with Richelle Dr of Rochelle Wilenski, who's going to be the new head of the CDC, and she was really on the cutting edge of of developing the the models for how we should think about asymptomatic or surveillance testing. So we really had the best minds in the room and we worked together to create and make available the opportunity for all schools who wanted to participate to participate in UH.

First of all, our testing protocol, which we had a very strong partnership with the Broad Institute, which is one of the world's leading genomic institutes, and they set up a whole testing UH operation UM and our work with them really led to being able to do this kind of testing UM at a much lower price. And again this was available to all of higher ed UM. So I think it's it's a time when the community has come together UM and along with the Broad UM made it possible for all of us to do what we

initially thought might be impossible. So that's that's the first lesson UM of of collaboration UM. The second is that you know, as we decided at Wellesley what to do, we do have half of our students on campus with a lot of different protocols, behavior protocols, mask wearing, physical distancing all types of cleaning protocols, classrooms redone. You know, a lot of investment UM. But I think what we've been able to do in higher read when you follow

the science is show what's possible. Um Our rates of COVID on campus have been quite low. UM. We've had fourteen cases the entire semester, and each of them not all of them in students UM and I think that it really took an entire community coming together to make this happen. The other thing that the pandemic I think is really brought to light is you know that the

residential experience is a great equalizer. You know, about half of our students are studying in person and the other half are studying remotely, and we've had to find ways to ensure equity and excellence no matter where our students are. And our faculty have been just phenomenal, and they've really embraced this commitment and the challenge that that they've been

faced with. So, you know, I think it's made us even appreciate more the fact that when we bring our students to campus that they were all living in the in place they're doing and eating in the same dining halls. It's a tremendous learning experience, but it's such an important part of the educational experience, and we've had to find other ways to create that connection and community. UM. So

it's it's been a fascinating journey. Uh. And again I just um, I wish some of our country, where we now see the virus raging um could use the science in the way that Higher Read, that much of Higher Read has used the science to drive practice. I want to end our wonderful conversation with the question I like to ask these days, because people are feeling kind of down and a little bit worried about the future, given all that's happening in our world, what makes you optimistic? Oh?

You know, I always have to say, in terms of optimism under wonder whatever conditions that when you're the president of a college or university, no matter what the issues of the day, and some of them can be, you know, quite difficult on any given day or every any given year, that this is this is essentially optimistic work because it is about the future. It is about our future in terms of our young people, and it's about our future in terms of the scholarship the research produced. So just

that is to me, I am in an optimistic environment. UM. But with that being said, you know, it is a daunting moment um. We really I think of ourselves as facing three three pandemics UM, COVID, racism, UM and economic inequality.

And UM. I think that over these past you know, six to nine months that we you've seen we've seen some devastating things, but we've also seen encouraging signs that people are rising up to really combat these ills and to try to bring a better world to the four you know, I would say, look at this year's election, we saw tremendous civic engagement across our country, with record turnouts in a pandemic at the polls, obviously with expanded voting options. I mean, it is it is ultimately a

very strong sign for democracy. You know, we've also seen powerful and often constructive activism. I've seen it on campus, but we haven't witnessed this kind of I think powerful activism in the country since the Civil rights movement. And UM, I think that is again it's about engagement and looking

to a better world. UM. And uh, you know, there's been also tremendous I mean, obviously there's been tremendous hurt and pain through this time, but there's also been innovation and people showing resilience UM and uh and and a power that UM that I think is is very very hopeful. So you know, I am optimistic. I think there's a lot to be, a lot of work to do, but the fact that we're waking up in new ways UM and I see it all around me gives me just

great hope for for the future. It's been a joy to be with you and and really to touch the depths of your thinking and to learn so much from you as I always do, and I know our listeners have today. So thanks for taking the time to be with us. It's really been great. Well, Ambassador Revere, thank you for everything that you've done and everything that you continue to do. Dr Paula Johnson always inspires as a leader in health care and education. Here are three things

that resonated with me from that conversation. First, Dr Johnson's groundbreaking research reminds us why we need to put a women's lens on healthcare. The fact is that medical conditions show up differently for women and men, and medications affect the sexes differently, which means that women need to be included in all aspects of medicine, including research leadership and clinical trials. Second, Dr Johnson's life exemplifies the value of mentorship.

She credits her own role models, her mother, her grandmother, and Professor Ruth Hubbard for inspiring hur towards success. Finally, Dr Johnson shows that women can flourish in feels like economics, neuroscience, and computer science. Those are among the most popular majors at Wellesley. There was nobody there to tell the women they didn't belong. Tune in next Tuesday to hear about our next featured woman and discover why she's one of

Seneca's one Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG Have a Great Day.