Dawn Riley: Sailing Legend

We're absolutely going to lose the spinnaker. We're gonna have to go with the jib. So it's a combination of real life engineering, problem solving, crisis management, and again just freaking awesome sailing. That was Don Riley explaining what it takes to captain a racing sail boat and rough seas. Don has made history by leading crews in the biggest competitions, including the America's Cup and the grueling Whitbread Round the World Race. No Wonder Sports Illustrated named her one of

the hundred greatest female athletes of the twentieth century. I'm a land Revere and this is Seneca's one hundred women to hear. We are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making women you need to hear. Don Riley has so many firsts to her name it's hard to keep track. In nineteen eighty nine, she joined the crew of Maiden, the first all women's boat to

participate in the Whitbread Round the World Race. In the following years, she was the first woman ever to manage an entire America's Cup sailing team, and she was skipper of Heineken, the only all women's entry in the nineteen ninety three ninety four Whitbread Race. Don has also served as president of the Women's Sports Foundation, which was created by Billy Jean King to advocate for women and girls in sports. Listen and learn why Don Riley is one

of Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. I'm speaking today with sailing legend Don Riley. Don welcome. It's such a pleasure to have you with us. Thanks for having me well. You are one of the world's legendary sailors, a true pioneer, with several firsts to your name. Among them, you were the first woman to sail in both the America's Cup and the Woodbread Race. What draws you to the sport. What drew you in in the first place, and what

makes it like nothing else. Well, I started sailing a very long time ago, so I'm not quite sure what it was that drew me to the sport, but I do know that now I love the combination of being outside of the physical side of it, where you're pushing yourself to the absolute limit, and then also, especially when you get higher in the sport, the mental aspect of having to put together you know, in America's Cup or

a nonprofit foundation or a team. We just finished the Macina Race with twenty two people on an eighty six ft boat. The logistics, the problem solving, You're you're never off, you're always on, on on sounds truly challenging, just as it does when we think about what you all do as sailors. You were the skipper of an all women's team in in the whip Read Round the World race. That's nine months of sailing thirty three thousand miles across

the world's oceans. What is that like for those of us who have no comparable experience, And you mentioned some of the tough challenges that sailors have. What was the toughest part of this that one was actually the management of the team. So I had been the watch captain, diver and engineer on Maiden. The race before that was an all women's team skippered by Tracy Edwards and the

movie made in obviously, and so Heineken. I was called in at the end of the first leg when there had been a mutiny on board, so I was literally, if you put in business terms, there had been a hostile takeover and I was brought in as the new CEO. And to do that whilst you're also sailing through the Southern Ocean and thirty forty knot winds and snow and ice, that was a challenge. My goodness, that's quite a combination a mutiny and weather impacts that are rather severe. So

how does one stay mentally strong? Because you you talked about the fact that you do really need to be disciplined. How do you deal with storms? How do you deal with high seas and other kinds of challenges. Well, this should come as no surprise to any human who's successful. Preparation is key, So you're always planning ahead, you're making plans,

and you're always coming up with your contingencies. So a storm while even back then we didn't have as good weather information clearly, and we're in the southern Ocean where there's no ships to tell you what's going on. But you can still get satellite images of the fronts and an idea. But your senses of does the temperature change, is the moisture changing, are the wave altering? You know? What does it feel like in terms of the pressure

in your ears? All of that, and so you're always on You're always looking at we're going this way this you know, we've got forty knots of wind is behind us. If it comes further forward, we're absolutely going to lose the spinnaker. We're gonna have to go with the jib. If that happens, I will do this. If that happens quickly, then it's going to be more of an emergency. We're gonna, you know, blow that tax so that we can get

it down and unload the loads. So it's a combination of real life engineering, problem solving, crisis management, and again just freaking awesome sailing. Well, you had said that it really takes preparation, and I wonder to be mentally strong to do all the things you just described. Are there exercises you do. How do you prepare? We definitely work out so physically, we prepare mentally. I think, honestly, it's just convincing yourself to rip off the band aid and

go for it. And the more you plan, the easier it is to take that first step. We were talking about that this morning at oak Cliffe Sailing, the nonprofit that I run right now. Most of the time when people are coming up with excuses or not starting a project is because they don't know how and they're afraid.

So once you just say I can do this and you take the first step, you get a great sense of accomplishment after So you were describing some of what you went through with those nine months on the sea in the Big Bread Race. Did you have any close calls, either in that experience or in other experiences. The funny thing is is I have had very few injuries, and none of them have been on boats. It's always been something stupid, like I have a broken arm right now.

I slipped on my porch because it was rainy and sandy and broke my arm. That is too funny. But on the boat, you prepare and you take all of the precautions, so I've flown f sixteens, I've jumped out of planes, I've bungee jumped, I've sailed, you know, around the world twice. I pushed myself to the limit and

I slip and fall, such as life. Yes, now I know that in you were the first woman actively involved in the America's Cup, and that seems pretty light in the game for women to be starting sailing in such a prestigious event. Why did it take so long? Are there more obstacles for women that you can describe for us? Well, there's the same obstacles. Sailing is no different. It's actually more competitive than life because one the sailing at the

lower levels, you're working on getting your skills up. You're overcoming the idea that you're not as strong physically fit, and then that translates that say, you know, she might be good, but she's not strong enough. The good news for me is that I'm uh, definitely stronger than the average human female, so that helps. But the real final frontier in terms of breaking glass ceilings is having somebody to pull you up. So when you're the first it

takes a lot more effort. The second it's a little bit easier, but it's not until we get to the third that then you start being able to get equality. And you need women in the leadership to pull people up. So that's what took so long, is just somebody breaking through up into the leadership and you feel that you're the first when when that is occurring, is that a special pressure that's one on you at the time. You know, I was twenty five when I did my first round

the World. I was thirty when I did my second America's Cup. So I was able to um, I was able to be young and naive and like this is cool, this is awesome. Yeah. And it wasn't until I got a little bit older and I started looking for my next gig that I realized, Okay, I need to do something. And that's really why I put together my own America's Cup in two thousand and It was a mixed team. We were trying to go for diversity. We didn't have

enough of a pool to pull from. So instead of saying, oh, well, would just be co ed and not diverse, we made it a co ed team. And then we started true youth programs working in underserved communities to get sailing into diverse populations and we're starting to see the payoff for that, granted it, but we're starting to see much more diversity in the sport of sailing, and I'm personally very proud of that. Yeah, that's that's wonderful because you don't see

that in sailing so much. For sure, senecas one hundred women to hear. We'll be back after the short break. I know you've also helmed all women crews in both the America's Cup and with Bread. Are there advantages that women bring to sailing or is it you know what it appears to be. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, and diversity is critically important. I think the question diversity is absolutely important, especially when you're

doing the problem solving. So diversity of under background, racial diversity, just a different way of thinking makes your team stronger and that goes very clearly for a profitable business all the way down to a sailing event. The thing that women do bring is that they have a new perspective.

They often are slightly unsure of themselves, which you would think would be a detriment, but it forces them to think through the problems rather than jump, and so they tend to be smarter and more you know, qualified, and better at positions like the pit which is very technical in terms of which sales are going up and down, and organizational or trimming where you have to look at it and think outside of the box as opposed to just jumping, jumping in and pulling, which the guys are

really good at doing and they're just give me that poll done, and a female will often say, let me think this through. And that seems to be the case in other pursuits as well. So it's interesting that it holds for sailing. Well, let's go back a bit. Tell us about your growing up, your childhood, what led you to become this extraordinary professional and sailing. Take us back, Well, I started sailing with our family when I was thirteen.

We took off for a year with my parents and my younger brother and sister, and we sailed the whole from the Great Lakes out to the East Coast, all the way up and down to Florida, the Bahamas, the Virgin's Granada and back. So that clearly expanded my horizons, um so, and I realized that sailing was a vehicle. Of course, being a female in the late seventies early eighties when there were no female sailors and very few professional sailors. I kind of had to figure it out

as I went. But there was one thing that was critical that I think, especially this podcast audience would be interested in, is that when I was in fourth grade, a woman named Sheila Young came to my school, my fourth grade teacher, Mrs cratch, and she showed her as her medal from the Olympics in speed skating. Oh my goodness. Sheila Young was part of friends with and part of the beginning of the Women's Sports Foundation with Billy Jene King,

So that was super influential to me. And then you jumped forward to two thousand and two and I became the president of Women's Sports Foundation that Billy Jane King and Sheila Young started. So you never know how long it's going to take for one small you know what, was she there forty five minutes and for that to change the life and of a person and the career of quite a few people. Well, and what an impressionable moment that clearly was for you. Did anybody else in

your family go into professional sailing. My sister is very good at it. She worked with me and the America True Foundation and Development and did some sailing on the boat. She did more sailing after the America's Cup and she runs the city of Oakland Wrekin Park in California. And my brother has what we call a normal job and a wife and three kids, and he still is a very good sailor. But neither one of them make their living off with it like I do well, and you're

successfully doing it. You did mention the Women's Sports Foundation. I wonder if you could talk about why women and girls why it's important for them to have full access and opportunities in sports, because we know that it's crucial even if you never become that super athlete or that super professional sports do make a difference for women and girls.

You know, talk about that a little bit. Please absolutely the their statistics and studies, and we've been saying the same stats over for the past thirties five years, you know, eighties seven nine depend on which study which year. Women in business and leadership directly attribute their success to their competitive sports when they were in high school or college.

Women need to identify as competitive athletes and learn how to win and how to lose and keep going the you know, when I hear some parents say, well, isn't it nice they played soccer. I'm like, no, it's great. They played soccer and they were competitive. Um it even

goes This is a funny little story. I was on the stage in Sweden with a woman who had skippered around the World race on s c A, and she had the microphone and was basically saying the typical well, I'm so lucky, it's so nice we were able to go around the world. And I literally grabbed the microphone out of her hand and said with sam meant to say, she's freaking good. And they kicked butt going around the world. And then I said, hey, I have a super yacht that I need a homesman or do you want to

steer the boat in New Zealand. She said yep. And I said that's how the guys do it, exactly. So you have your own network now, working one person at a time, exactly. You know. I've heard data myself about women in the C suites as c e O s that the great great majority of them were engaged in competitive sports and years earlier. Absolutely, so that competition does pay off, even if you don't become a sports professional

and I need to say this one more time. It is super critical to have representation in all leadership, whether it's a super yot that's owned by an increasing number of wealthy women, if they have men putting their crews together, they will not have women on the team. In a corporation, if you have three women on your board, you will be more successful. Bottom line. If you just have one just to check the box, it's not gonna work. You need two or three women, and then the whole company

is more successful. And that's proven over and over and over. So we should get over it and just make it happen. And thank you for repeating it, because that diversity advantage needs to be stated over and over. Uh. And there's so much evidence today to back up what you said so compelling. Lee. We're i'll watching the Olympics now, and I know that you teach sailing. You've also coached at the Olympic level. Are any of your sailors in the

Tokyo Games? Yet? Quite a few of them. We have five different classes that train here out of oak Cliff, with the forty nine FFS, which is forty nine or men fex women for seventy men and women. The fin which is single handed mail um and the Nacri seventeen which is mixed co ed Catamran. So all of those sailors in those classes have trained here and the United States, and sailing is in a rebuilding phase. We really kind of tried to shake things up literally twenty years ago

and it didn't work. It's a long process because the sport of sailing is so complicated. It is not just going out and being fit and strong and reaching your peak when you're sixteen years old, because you have to add that mental You have to have that experience again that I talked about at the very beginning, The smell, the feeling, the waves, the experience, have seen it before

will make you a better sailor and win. We're racist, so we're in a rebuild year and right now in those classes, half of them are in the top ten. But we're we're holding on and which countries are the best at sailing at this point it's um. It used to be America, and then it used to be Great Britain, and with the New Zealand in an Australian throw then now it's quite broad and open. So a lot of Scandinavian countries are good, Brazil is phenomenal, Australia, New Zealand,

England are all still pretty strong. And then occasionally you have a you know, Japanese, Chinese, Thailand, um Guam. You don't know, y'all. Come. It sounds like everybody's getting into the game. Yep. So, as the professional sailor that you are, when you're watching um Olympic sailing events on TV, what do you watch for? I don't like watching because it makes me nervous. But I'm sailine. I'm totally fine. If I know somebody and I want them to win, I'm

a basket case. It's always the case. It doesn't matter if it's sailing or some other competition. Well, we've all been through a tough year, and I dare say it hasn't ended in terms of COVID, it's been rough. What gives you hope at this time? Oh? I am so optimistic now. The first thing is for COVID. Because we were international in terms of our friends, we knew it was coming. We locked in February five twenty. We had zero cases of COVID. We ran full programming, we started

a high school. We just came back from what could have been the impossible of racing the Chicago and the port here in Mackinaw with very small people on board the boat. Our average crew crew weight was one twenty and normally it's one ninety. So we did the first race for first to finish. The second race we just got back from that. We were third in class, third overall, first to finish, and we smashed and grabbed the course record, beating it by two hours. So I am in an upswing.

But also I'm seeing that people as long as we get these vaccination rates up and people wear masks out of courtesy, I'm seeing people going back to work, going back to school. I'm getting more team building, more speaking. It's just I'm seeing it all happening. And yes, we have to be careful, but when the news is making up stories about back to school supplies are going to be more expensive, they're digging deep for the negative. Yeah, and I'm so glad you mentioned again the importance of

getting those vaccination rates up. Well, we're reach that point unfortunately where we're at the end of our conversation. But I can't thank you enough on behalf of our listeners, John, this has been just tremendously illuminating for those of us who don't know sailing as much as we might. Thank you for making us understand what it's like, for sharing that experience, and also for telling us so much more about it's importance, particularly in developing women's leadership and the

diversity advantage. So thank you, Don Riley, that sailing legend that you are. Thank you so much and come visit me at Oak Cliff Sailing and Oyster Bay anything that was great. There's so much we can learn about life and leadership from sailing icon Don Riley. Here are three things I took from that conversation. First, when women break a glass ceiling, whether it's in sports or business, they have a responsibility to help others come in behind them.

As John says, the real final frontier is having somebody to pull you up, and that means having enough women in leadership to influence who gets picked or hired, because if there's just one woman on a team or a board, it's harder for change to happen. Second, as we've heard before, diversity is an advantage for any team, and sailing women bring something special to a crew. Don says the they are often slightly unsure of themselves, and that surprisingly is

a good thing. Women's uncertainty causes them to think through problems rather than just jumping to hasty conclusions. Finally, it's important that girls be involved in sports. John reminds us that so many women leaders trace their success to having played competitive sports in high school or college. It teaches them how to win, how to lose, and how to keep going. Tune in next Thursday to hear about our next featured woman and discover why she's one of Seneca's

one Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner Pung. Have a Great Day.