¶ Understanding the Editing Process
I have worked with authors who didn't feel like they were ready for editing and at the point they were at I realized they're never going to be at this rate . The best thing they can do is purchase the developmental edit early on to help them get that draft finished . Even when I publish my books , I still run my books through my editing team .
Traditional publishing took the control away from the author , and that's what I love about the self-publishing world now is the author has control , hey , chandler Wolt .
Here and joining me today is Katarina Wonders . Katarina , she's a former circus performer . She's an author of 119 books , self-made businesswoman , competitive weightlifter , avid reader , skydiver , a woman with a bajillion talents . And this is a fun kind of a fun full circle moment .
So Katarina started out as one of our first authors at self publishing comm it was called self publishing school at the time and has kind of become a legend in our world . Maybe you've heard me tell her story on a webinar or maybe you had her edit your book .
She's edited a ton of books over the years for our authors and now she is joined as the lead editor and the head of editing at self publishing comm . So she's joined as the lead editor and the head of editing at selfpublishingcom , so she's building out the editing team here . We're really , really excited about it .
We've already edited a ton of books internally through her and her team and we're just getting started . So not only has she published 119 books , she's personally edited 6,951 books and has a personal counter . So that's an accurate number and that's went up since the last time that we spoke , because she's always working on books for our authors .
So today we're going to talk about all things editing . So this is the podcast for you if you've got questions about editing . So how do you hire an editor , what are the types of editing , what's the process look like , how long does it take , how much does it cost All the things ?
We're going to answer as many of your pressing questions as we can , and maybe you're seeing this thinking that you're trying to find an editor , or maybe you're in our world and you're already working with our editing team at selfpublishingcom and this is going to be a good kind of brief on your way in , so that you can maximize the editing process with as little
headaches as possible . Katarna , welcome , great to have you here .
So excited to be here .
So I always tell people our authors is , you know , I think I tell people the hardest part is of the book publishing process is getting a rough draft done , and that's really just because most people don't finish . But then the real hardest part in my mind is editing process .
I just know , the first time I edited a book , or I got my book edited it was just the first time you read it . You think , was I drunk when I wrote this ? I can't believe . I thought this was good . I suck , everything sucks . This is horrible .
And then you introduce an editor to the mix and it can feel like this really vulnerable process and it's really hard , but it's necessary and it makes the book better . And so I guess I'd love to start there . Why do authors even need an editor in the first place ? And two part question does every author need an editor ?
So much to unpack there . So , yes , every author needs an editor . Even when I publish my books , I still run my books through my editing team , and I've been doing this for a long time . But why does the author need an editor ? Because we , as the authors , do not see everything in our books because we're so close to it .
So , even on like a sentence level , with grammar and mistakes , my books are full of typos because I'm typing really fast . My text messages are full of typos because I'm typing really fast . I know what I'm trying to say and not everyone else will . So the editor is there to help . You see the side of your work that you can't .
No matter how many books you've written , you're never going to be able to come up with a completely clean manuscript on your own . That being said , the more books you write , the cleaner your manuscripts will be . So people who have worked with me for a long time definitely don't pay as much as they go down the road .
The first book that you have edited , you will probably spend a lot on editing . After that , though , it will get cheaper and cheaper as you go . So , people who have written I have one author who's written probably 20 or 30 books now and I've edited all of them . It's so much easier now .
He's learned so much from the editing process because he's painted it so no matter what , there's always going to be something for the editor to find .
Yeah , that's good , and so I guess let's maybe set the stage for those people who don't know , because I think this was really confusing for me as well . What are the different types of editing I was going to ask more about ?
I mean , I'm like there's like seven bajillion and you ask different editors and they're like , oh well , there's all these types of editing and there's all these types of editing According to you . What are the different types of editing that an author might need ?
I like that . You add that in , according to me . So I will preface this by saying this definition will be different for everyone .
You would think that all these editors who are so detail oriented would be able to agree on the different types and I came from the world of traditional publishing and the types of editing that I was taught and the rounds and the names there are what I'm using .
Now I have evolved the verbiage a little bit because now there's a really popular buzzword called line editing and that's not something that we'd ever used before , but I actually like that now because I like that . The idea is you go through the manuscript line by line . So I've adjusted my verbiage a little bit .
My process that I've been using with my team over the years are the traditional publishing's five rounds . So in TradPub there is the developmental round , the content round , the line editing round , the copy editing round and then several proofreading rounds and sometimes you have multiple rounds of each .
But that's what we're going to go with today for the sake of ease . Just know that not everyone will agree and some editors will call line editing copy editing or they'll call it content editing . So these are kind of mix and match .
So just know that , going forward , if you use these terms I'm about to explain and you say this to another editor , they might have a different meaning . So , starting with developmental , that is the big picture Looking at . Is this cohesive ? Are the chapters in a good order ? Does it get your argument across ? Or , if it's fiction , does it have a good storyline ?
So very big picture . In the developmental editing process you're not going to see very many direct edits inside the manuscript itself . It's more of a comprehensive report at the end . It may not look like as much from the editor , but that's more of a comprehensive report at the end .
It may not look like as much from the editor , but that's because the editor read the whole book in a pretty quick manner to look at the structure .
They're not getting into the details , they're just making sure that the book doesn't need to be changed in a big way , because it usually does need to be changed in a big way , and sometimes one of the edits will be hey , you need to rewrite these three chapters and add five more .
It's very daunting for the author after they get the developmental feedback , because sometimes the changes are very massive for the author . After that we move to content editing , which is instead of big picture it's like little picture . So still the overarching book .
But now we're looking at OK , now that we have the chapters in the right order , does each chapter flow well ? And so it's like a chapter by chapter . Then we get into what we're now calling line editing and I've just picked up on the buzzword because I actually like it now , but line editing is going through it at a paragraph and line by line level .
So is it repetitive ?
That's the big one . Is it repetitive , I'd say , and does it make sense ? Is it easy to read ? Do I know what you're trying to say ? That's round three , usually , and that is where the magic happens . That editor is going to be worth their weight in gold , because there's so much happening .
It's a lot of work for the editor , it's a lot of work for the author too , to try to go through the feedback , but it's it's worth it . Once you know that the manuscript is ready , on a paragraph by paragraph , sentence by sentence level , we get into copy editing , which is the detail work . That's my favorite round .
I love the details fixing grammar , vocabulary , spelling , punctuation , all that fun stuff , just making it clean . And then proofreading is just exactly what it sounds like it's picking up the remaining errors that the other editors have missed .
Proofreading should not be an overly complicated process , because the manuscript should be very clean by now , but it is depending . I've had people ask for proofreading when , in fact , it needed a full edit and it was no longer just a proofread . So proofreading is
¶ Good Book Editor Search
a fine science and that's one of those skills that either you have it or you don't . You can learn all the rules of grammar over time , but you're never going to learn how to spot errors because either you have that eagle eye , or you don't . So a good proofreader , that's a special talent to have .
Yeah , I agree with that . That's a special talent to have . Yeah , I agree with that . And so I love that kind of breakdown of the kind of the five types or rounds of editing . So you've got developmental , you've got content , you've got line editing , copy editing and then proofreading . I would say a couple of things I would highlight .
There are almost the earlier in the process . There are almost the earlier in the process . That's where you see a lot of the skills of your editor is can they help make the book better ? And then it kind of I guess the proofreading as well is because , like you said , either you got it or you don't .
So if you hire someone to proofread and they're not good , you're definitely going to see that . And then vice versa , if they're really good , they'll catch a lot of stuff that other people would miss . So , and then you kind of alluded to this .
But I think one mistake that people make is in the developmental editing process and you were talking to the team about this last week is they'll think , oh , this editor just read my book and there's all these typos and they didn't even catch them . It's like , okay , that's not the purpose of this phase of editing , right ?
So don't lose the forest for the trees in the first round of editing and think like , oh man , are they not even good ? Because that's not the purpose . So it's kind of almost like , as you , the author , aligning with the editor is okay . Which type of editing are we in ?
And maybe you're only doing two rounds , maybe you're doing five rounds , but you know whatever that looks like for you and what you've chosen to do , understand the purpose of the round that you're in and focus on that purpose and don't get lost in the other stuff . I guess a couple clarify .
I want to talk about finding an editor and kind of a few different buckets there , so making sure that that people can find a great , and then we'll talk more about the process and how to navigate the process . So should people hire an editor specific to their genre or no ?
And I guess maybe even more big picture , how can someone find a good editor for their book ?
You like the double questions , don't you ?
I do . I do Different parts .
So to the genre question yes and no . I will explain . So you want to have an editor who knows your genre because they are going to give you very genre specific feedback .
If , like , let's say , you've written a science fiction novel and you have an editor who only reads romance novels , well , they're going to give you a bunch of feedback that's completely irrelevant because they don't know your target audience . Or let's say , you've written a business book and you get an editor who mostly edits self-help .
They're going to try to get you to add all these inspirational quotes that maybe aren't necessary . So , having an editor through a good portion of the process that is , in your target audience is very important , and they're going to know verbiage . I have two editors on my team who specialize in scripture references and faith-based books .
That are very important because some of the other editors on the team might not know some of the language and try to change it . However , during the process , you do want at least one or two of your editors .
If you're going through a whole process , you want them to be outside of that circle of readership because they're going to help you catch things that you might have said that would maybe make sense to most of your readers . Some of your readers aren't going to know everything in there .
So like , let's say , you've written a real estate book and you use certain terms that the average lay person isn't going to know and , yeah , maybe a good chunk of your audience will know those terms and if you have an editor who specializes in that , of course they're going to know those terms as well .
They wouldn't even think about the fact that , oh , the regular person reading this is not going to know that . So you do need a reader who will be able to catch things and ask you questions like well , what is this ? I don't know what this means . Can you clarify ? And then it's up to you , as the author , to decide .
Okay , do I need to clarify this or will my entire target audience know this ? So that's something I run into with my sci-fi books .
There's a lot of terms in sci-fi that all sci-fi readers are going to know , and I've had editors say I don't know what this is , and like that's fine , I'm not going to explain this , because then my sci-fi readers are going to think why is this author telling me what this is ? So it is .
It is up to you , as the author , to discern between your editor's feedback , but at the same time , it is good to have it from both sides . I forgot the other question .
No , just the big picture . How can someone find a good ? Not even how . How can they find because let's talk about that in a second like where people can go and all that stuff ? But how do I know that the person I'm hiring is legit and what's kind of the difference ?
How can I tell the difference between someone who's really good and is going to be a great editor and someone who's I think we hear this all the time it's like hey , my cousin majored in English . Can't they just edit my book ? Like that's a bad , that's not typically a great idea , but so how can someone figure out hey , this person's good Gotcha .
Okay , so the cousin majoring in English actually could help you with your book a lot . They can help you get it cleaned up and ready for your editor and then you probably won't have to pay as much for editing .
So that's actually a fantastic option . Good tip .
And having people in your target audience read your book . Also , beta readers super helpful for getting your book ready for your editor . So there's a lot to be said for having a bunch of eyes on your book before it goes to editing .
However , as a former English teacher myself and a couple of people on my team were also English professors and English teachers the English teachers don't know everything about editing . The publishing standard is very different .
So , finding an editor that is a question that I will never have a real answer to , because , with the freelance world out there , you really just don't know . The best you can do is do your homework .
Talk to other authors who have worked with this editor , see how many reviews they have , but , most importantly , go for word of mouth over reviews , because obviously the editors are only going to put their best reviews on their website . So go through word of mouth .
Word of mouth , though , isn't always accurate either , because , let's say , the editors only edited five books . All five of those people you talked to loved their editor , but the author isn't going to know , because obviously they get the book back better than it was before , so they don't really know the skill level of the editor .
So I would start with word of mouth . Find people who liked them , then go to that editor , find out how many people they've worked with and then really start doing
¶ Hiring and Budgeting for Book Editors
your homework . Then you need to talk to the editor and make sure they're even a good fit for your book . Find out how many books they've edited , find out what their credentials are Like . To work on my team , you have to have a master's degree , so these things are really important .
Even though I don't necessarily put the importance of a degree on a lot of career aspects , I do in my team because in this particular world the credentials are actually very important because that means you've studied certain things that I need you to know .
So I have yet to have a solid answer for how to find an editor , but a lot of it is just homework , homework , homework , homework .
Yeah , and do your diligence , don't , you know , don't just hire the first person that you talk to Make sure that they're good and they're legit , all right . So we've kind of set the stage here . We've talked about the types of editing , we've talked about how to know if an editor's any good or not . What's the ballpark on cost to hire a good editor ?
I know this is all over the map , so maybe give us the range and then how most authors should look at it .
So a typical 40,000 word book , if you were to get all of the ranges of editing , like the full scope , all the rounds I just talked to , you could probably expect to spend about $6,500 for all of that . It's not cheap and that is for a first book obviously .
If you're doing all of that , if you're not doing all of those rounds of editing which most people in the self-publishing world do not , you are still usually looking in the thousands . If you're not paying at least $1,000 , then you're probably not getting the best finished product .
Like I said , it does get cheaper as you go , but usually editors charge per word . It will range two to four cents per word on average nowadays , but that's per round .
So most of the editors I know with a reasonable skill level and these are editors without credentials I know are charging two to four cents per word per round depending on the type of editing they're doing , and most people are going to want multiple rounds . So a lot of people can expect to pay about five cents per word for a reasonable amount of editing .
It gets pricey really quick .
Yeah for sure , and so so that's the ballpark on cost . So , hey , low end thousand bucks . High end , I mean gosh , the high end is probably more like 10 , 20 grand , but that's , like you know , pretty intense editing and maybe even a longer book . So that's the price range .
Now , for the folks who are listening to this or watching this right now and thinking , hey , I'm broke or I'm balling on a budget let's just say balling on a budget what are some things that I can do to where I can say , hey , I don't want to compromise , cause I think most people were like , hey , I don't want to compromise quality of my book , but I do
want to pay less , which you're kind of balancing those two things . So what can folks do to not compromise on quality of the book but maybe reduce their editing costs a little bit ?
Great question . There's a lot of options for this . If you have the , you know the guerrilla hustle that you need for this . You can actually save a lot of money . So start with beta readers . You can go on places like Fiverr and Upwork looking for beta readers . Just know that anyone on Fiverr .
You have no way to know where they came from , what their credentials are , anything like that . However , if you get enough of them , you can get this done for pretty cheap . Hire the beta readers . They'll give you feedback on your manuscript . Pay attention to the feedback through all the beta readers before you start making changes .
So try to get at least four to five beta readers to go through your book before you start implementing the feedback they give you . Some people think it's a good idea to go in a linear process , so you implement the feedback from one and then the next , and then the next . The problem with that is you might get conflicting feedback .
So assess the feedback from all of them . Then start making your changes . Then go through the beta reading process again with several more . If you can find people to do this for free who are in your target audience , even better . Good luck with that , though , because they tend not to be so , on top of things with the timeline .
Then , once you have a solid structure for your book based on your beta reader feedback , start sending it through AI editing tools . Autocrit is fantastic . It has a story analyzing feature in there that can really help you break things down . Autocrit is actually my favorite out of all of them and that will help you look for repetition .
It'll compare your manuscript to other authors in your genre things like that , looking for pacing issues , strong writing really fantastic tool . And then , once you've gone through that , then start going through more AI editing software like either Hemingway or ProWritingAid , grammarly . Grammarly is okay . Prowritingaid is better , but it is still . It's not a human .
So these are AI editing tools that will give you incorrect feedback . Sometimes you can even use software like ChatGPT to ask it questions , but I would not rely very heavily on that one .
I would go for writing software and editing software that is designed for writers , so that can really help you clean stuff up , pay attention to the feedback it gives you and make sure it actually applies , because I've had people come to me with a manuscript that they ran through ProWritingAid and they took all the advice from ProWritingAid and they sent me a really
weird manuscript because it's a robot . Your robot isn't going to be able to read your book and give you appropriate feedback on everything , so I've definitely seen AI editing software make the book a little worse in some cases . So just be cautious as you're going through it and read . Just read in your genre and you'll know what to do better .
But yeah that is my best . Suggestion is go through a lot of other people for feedback for the structure , use lots of editing software for cleaning it up and then get it to an editor and by the time you've done all that and we are talking a lot of effort on your part .
Yes .
So it depends on how bad you want to save money . If you really want to do this on a budget , you can get a pretty clean manuscript on your own .
You're still going to need an editor , but that editor isn't going to charge you nearly as much at this point . Right , and then you can just do more of the copy editing or proofreading , which is a lot less expensive . If you're doing that front work , that's good . Those are great tips . I hope you're loving this episode so far .
So if you're serious about writing and publishing your book , we would love to chat with you and help create a custom print . All right , so all you need to do right now is go to selfpublishingcom forward slash schedule schedule a 45 minute consultation with one of the experts on my team .
All right , let's implement what you're learning in this episode and let's see how we can help with your book . Go to selfpublishingcom forward slash schedule , and I guess I would frame it this way . I mean , a lot of people will actually two things . One , do a verbal read through . We talk about this all the time . I talk about this in my book published .
We talk about this with our authors , which means literally reading it out loud , the entire book , before you send it to an editor . You will be amazed at how much
¶ Hiring and Working With an Editor
you will catch in that process , and so that's been one of the most helpful things for me prior to working with an editor is doing that . That makes the book better . That makes my life easier . That makes their life easier . Now , it doesn't feel like it makes my life easier in the short term . It's like I got to read this whole freaking book out loud .
That sounds like a lot of work , but so that's the first thing I would recommend . And then secondly , kind of to your point , katarna , with anything in life , you're either spending time to save money or you're spending money to save time and , depending on where you're at in life , you might be optimizing for one or the other .
So just know , if you're spending good money and you did a good job of vetting and making sure that person's good , well , you're paying for peace of mind and you're paying for a quality book Right . But then , on the flip side , if you're spending a lot of time to save money , you're really spending time to cut down on the costs , right and so .
And it may or may not be better , but maybe that's what you got to do , right . So just kind of evaluate your options and are you , are you going to spend time or spend money , and which one do you have more of ? That's probably , you know point you in the direction of your strategy .
So let's talk about at what point in the process , katarna , should people start looking for an editor .
So this depends on which type of editing you're looking to purchase . If you are wanting to go through the full , the full Monty , like everything the developmental , the line editing , everything you can start looking for an editor earlier in the process . So if you're going to go through developmental editing , you might not even have a 100% completed rough draft .
I might be shooting myself in the foot by saying this , because some of the stuff I get when I tell people to send it to me , I have regrets sometimes . Sometimes I say it doesn't have to be fully fleshed out and then I get like just an outline of word vomit and I don't love my life at that point , but sometimes it is important .
I have worked with authors who didn't feel like they were ready for editing and at the point they were at I realized they're never going to be at this rate . The best thing they can do is purchase the developmental edit early on to help them get that draft finished .
So I'm not saying we're going to coach you through the writing process , but I am saying if you have like , maybe , say a 10,000 word , we'll call it a skeleton draft , Then we can help you with that and say , okay , so this is a great structure . Maybe you need to flesh this out . Maybe you shouldn't talk as much about this part . Finish it from here .
So that's actually a very early point in the process that you could start working with the developmental editor to get your draft solid . So if you are , however , not going to be purchasing developmental editing , then let's say you're going to start at copy editing , Like a lot of people do . You need to have a very solid finished draft .
You need to make sure everything is ready . All of your chapters are divided , You've talked about everything . Your bullet points are finished . You want that editor to edit everything you have , so at that point you need a very clean draft . So the answer it depends .
Cool . And one thing I would say on this is let's assume it's going to take you one to two weeks to find an editor , and let's assume that it's going to take them one to two weeks to get started , and maybe longer , right ? So I think this is certainly a mistake that I made .
It's like , all right , I've got my rough draft done , I did my verbal read-through , all right , I'm ready for editing . Now let's start looking for an editor . And then I was frustrated when it took a long time , and then the best editors are booked out , right . And so I'm like , no , I want to start on my book now . This is my Colby high quick start .
I'm like , no , we got to go now . And so just temper your expectations and or start looking before you need it . And so that's one thing I would say there . Another thing just shameless plug for our you know , author advantage accelerator elite program .
I know you mentioned like , hey , an editor is not your coach , and they're absolutely not , and so that's a good thing about what we do at selfpublishingcom that makes us unique is you have a coach , and then , if you purchase editing from us , you have an editor , and so sometimes you need someone to coach you and encourage you through the process .
That's not your editor right Now . Maybe , if they're good , they will here and there , but , like if you're depending on them to do that , that's not their job . Their job is to make your book better , right , and sometimes . So sometimes you need to go to your coach and get some encouragement while your editor is ripping you a new one .
And so just know that , hey , if you're just straight up hiring an editor and you're not working with us , that's not their job and you're not going to get coaching from them . They need a finished manuscript that they can then help , or a mostly finished manuscript that they can help you craft into a final and great book .
Katarna , where are the best places for people to find a good editor ? So let's assume they're not working with us . They're just kind of out there winging it like an idiot . No , I'm just kidding . No , they're just out there looking like , hey , where can I find an editor ? Are there good marketplaces ? I know you said referrals earlier .
What have you found be successful ?
The best thing I've found is just Googling best editors for self-published authors or if you have books that you've read that you like a lot , look and see who the editor is . You would be surprised . Even in Tradpub traditional publishing sorry , I'm using the shortened version you can look in the book and see who edited the book and contact the editor .
You would be surprised they might be willing to work on the book for you . I've had people do that back when I worked in traditional publishing . They found my name and contacted me . But as of now I would stick with Googling .
I would avoid sites like Fiverr , readsie for things like that , just because there's no way to know really what you're getting , unless you're going for a cheaper option like the beta reader option , or if you're breaking up your editing process and thinking well , I'm going to go find a cheaper editor for now . Get the book as clean as possible for cheap .
Then go hire a really skilled editor and I have seen people do that , where they look up the editors that they want . They find a really good one . Can't afford that one , so they go to cheaper editors first get the manuscript as ready as they can and then they go do that last round with the editor . They really wanted to save themselves money .
So , yeah , I would start with Google . You will be surprised what it brings up and dig deep once you get it in the search engine to figure out who's gone to who . But yeah , look in the books that you like for the name of the editor and search Google for best editors for self-published books in certain genre that you want ?
Oh , cool , nice , that's a good tip . And , guys , if you want to connect with us on this , go to selfpublishingcom . Forward , slash , apply , book a call with the team . We'd be happy to chat with you about editing options , that we have , coaching options , that we have stuff like that . How long does the editing process take ?
I know this can vary pretty wildly , but what's the average process take ?
So the average process for an author who works with me versus an author who works with an editor in general pretty different . Um , I am . I mean , I've been doing this for 21 years , so I'm a lot faster than most editors . I have seen the process take on average , with most companies , about six months , and that's the average , and that's pretty long .
My numbers look nothing like that . However , if you're doing multiple rounds it could even take longer . But one round of editing once the editor gets started , usually like two or three weeks , but boy , it really varies . It depends
¶ Preparing for the Editing Process
on how many rounds you're doing , how long it takes you as the author to get your feedback back to the editor . It depends on the editor's wait list . It depends on the editor's speed of editing .
There's so many factors , but most of the books that I've done , I usually do two rounds of edits on my books nowadays just because I've been writing so long , and I usually spend about a month in the editing process with my personal books .
Cool , Nice , that's helpful . Now let's talk about we talked about this a little bit earlier , but I've hired an editor . I've got expectations around the process and how long it's going to take and all that stuff . Any other tips on how I can best prepare for the editing process ?
And especially I'd love to hear , as an editor kind of your take on how folks can make your job easier so that the book gets better .
Once you find the right person and you know that this is the right person because you've interacted enough to make sure you're a good personality and culture fit just ask them . It's because every editor is going to have a different answer .
So for me personally , when someone wants to know what will make it the easiest , like , I work in Google Docs and so does my whole team , so we have a whole process laid out of . Here's what you can do . Here are things to look for . I have a little manual I send them .
It's a self-editing guide to say okay , look for these things , this will make our job easier . Please , get your manuscript uploaded in segments in Google Docs . Format it just like this , with this font . So I have a list of things I give people that I ask them to do before sending it to me .
Not every editor will have that , especially if you get a newer editor . They're just going to say I don't know , send me your book . Most editors work in Word , even though my team does not . So usually you're safe with a Word document , because a Word document can then be uploaded in any format .
So it's really just communicate with your editor , find out what they want from you to make it easier , and the next best thing you can do is trust that your editor knows what they're doing , instead of questioning every little thing they do .
If you see an edit in your manuscript that you don't understand before you email them asking them to explain every little thing they did . You can Google things . You can look things up in Merriam-Webster . There are so many options to figure out why an editor did that .
The amount of times I've had to just send people links with Google that they could have done themselves , and it took me a lot of time that you know this person's paying for my time . There's a lot of things they could have done themselves that they didn't have to ask me for .
It's a good . It's a good distinction . I mean , if you're going to hire an expert , trust the expert , and the easier you are to work with and the smoother you are to work with , the better your book's going to get .
So if your editor , instead of spending time answering needless dozens of questions about edits , can actually just dive into the manuscript , that's going to make your book better , right , and so you being easier to work with and trusting them .
And really you got to drop your ego , because the ego flares up a good bit in the editing process because it feels like they're cutting pieces of you out . Not pieces of your book out , all right , at least it's felt that way for me sometimes . And so for me , you know , not pieces of your book out , all right , at least .
At least it's felt that way for me sometimes . And so for me , you know , doing seven books now it's my , my mindset shift has been I want you to ruthlessly cut this and anything that is not great , I want it out . And now it's easy to say that . And then you see them delete that thing and you're like , well , hold up , I thought that was good .
So just come in , I think , with that attitude and it'll be a lot better . And then you mentioned one thing that is really important I should have asked about this earlier is what formats to send your book . I'll just caution people Do not use Microsoft Word or like . I'm not a big fan of static docs .
I know you said we do all of our editing in Google Docs . If you want to work with us , you need to be in Google Docs , and I would argue that you just should do that anyway , because , for those who aren't familiar , it's a collaborative piece of software , so multiple people can be in it at once and it's always a live version .
So that's the two big differences . We talked about this with the team last week is the tragedy of when you send it off to your editor and you're like oh shit , I wanna add something in chapter 10 or whatever , or I just need to fix this one thing . Well , you can't do it because you don't have the active version of the doc .
I guess you can , but you gotta make sure they transfer it . It's just super complicated . So instead , use Google Docs or something like Google Docs that's alive , that's always got the live , current , newest version , and that'll make your life a lot easier . Let's talk about I'm just gonna kind of do a lightning round on a few final things .
What are mistakes that you see authors make in the editing process ? Or things that is just the fastest way to drive your , your editor , crazy , or make the edit or drive yourself crazy , cause it's going to make the editing process way worse .
Number one thing making changes while the editor is editing . Um , and , like I said , a lot of editors do work in Word , even though I don't . And the reason I say if you upload your document into a Word doc format , it'll transfer to anything . I love it because we can upload a Word doc into Google Docs and transfer it over .
That being said , with Google Docs because it's live yeah , the authors do like to sneak in there and start making changes while the editor is working and that does drive us crazy . I would say 100% of editors I'm confident saying 100% of editors do not like that .
I don't necessarily mind if people make changes when I'm not in the document , but if they see my little face up in the corner and I'm actively in there editing and they start moving things around , it's extremely frustrating .
But if an editor is working in a format that's not live like , let's say they sent a Word document and they're working on the Word document and the
¶ Communication Expectations With Editing Team
author sends another version of the manuscript while the editor is working , you really just screwed yourself up and the editor . So , just once you have sent a version to your editor to edit , leave that version alone until the editor says it's okay to make changes . So that is the number one thing is making changes while the editor is editing .
For sure , that's good . What are communication expectations with your editor ? What should people expect ? Great question .
Really great question . Again , this will depend on your editor . Most editors at like an editing company . When there's a team , you can expect a lot less communication because they're editing your book , which is what you paid them to do . Most companies are going to be email communication only because most of us , you know the written format . That's our thing .
Plus , it's easy to track everything that was said in an email thread . Most of the communication will take place in the document . Very few editors are going to be willing to interact with you a lot over the phone . That being said , some companies are very open to that and some personal editors are open to that .
So , like personally , I do phone calls , video interviews , things like that with the authors . If they need them , we can go over manuscript edits . Everyone on my team is open to doing a call . Like , if you do the full five round process with me , you get up to six phone calls . I've never had anyone use all six .
I've honestly never had anyone use more than three . But you can expect communication . Just don't expect it to be excessive . When the editor is working , they're probably not going to contact you unless they have a specific question .
So if the editor is running late though like let's say they told you they'd have it back to you by the 26th of the month and it gets to be the 30th then it is perfectly acceptable to follow up with them and say , hey , can I have an update please ? But overall , just kind of let them do their thing and they will contact you when they need you .
That's good , and I mean two things to consider here . I mean , editors are editors for a reason they like words and writing , and so that probably means that that's a better form of communication for them and to them . And so now you might be as an author , like , hey , I'm , I'm live , let's do it live , baby , Hop on zoom and let's let's chat .
But that might . It's probably not a great method of communication for them , and sure , yeah , Sometimes it's needed to really communicate what you're going for . Uh , and for somebody like me who's better at speaking than writing , I think uh , uh , you know , maybe that's going to be better for you , but then . So that's one thing to consider .
But then I would say , um , uh , the the other thing to consider is that your readers will not have those video phone calls or phone calls in general . So if it's needed to give context on the book , then it probably should be in the book , and so just something to consider as you're thinking about working with an editor .
Last couple of questions here would be let's say , I'm listening to this or watching this and I just signed up for editing with selfpublishingcom . Any other tips that you would give for people as they're prepping for the process so they can get the most out of the process and work well with the team .
So for us , specifically getting your manuscript ready in Google Docs that is the number one thing and making sure it is just the raw text , so removing images , borders , any sort of formatting . The editors just need an easy to read font and they're going to give you a better experience .
And we also break up the Google document into 20,000 words or less in chunks , because once you're adding a lot of edits , it'll slow the document down . The other thing to keep in mind is , if you don't know how to use the suggested edits mode or to address comments in a Google document , watch a tutorial .
We have one that we send our authors , but just learn everything you can about handling edits in Google documents . Also , when your editors make a comment in the book , let's say they're asking a question hey , what does this mean ? That doesn't mean to reply to the editor's comment explaining to the editor what it means . We probably actually knew what you meant .
We just needed you to explain in the book . So just when we're asking questions in the book , that is for the book itself , not just to respond , to explain to us as the editor , because if we're asking that question it means it wasn't totally clear in the text .
So just getting familiar with the addressing of edits process is really helpful and honestly , that's really all I can think of giving us like the barest bones of the manuscript .
If you have images that are really important to the narrative , like a chart that explains something , then just explain in a little box in there saying insert image here and describe what the image would look like , because we just want the words . We don't want all the other fluff that's going to be handled in formatting .
Cool Good stuff . Well , hey , what would , uh , knowing what you know now , katarina I mean , you've obviously edited almost 7,000 books , have published 119 books personally what would be your parting piece of advice for the person going into this for the first time ? Yeah , what would that be ?
Remember that this is your book and not the editing team's book . The beauty of self-publishing and the reason I left traditional publishing initially is because traditional publishing took the control away from the author , and that's what I love about the self-publishing world now is the author has control . Trust that your editors are experts .
We've studied this science for a long time . It's an art and a skill and we do know what we're doing . But at the end of the day , it is your book and not ours . So if you don't agree with certain edits that we make , you don't have to take them . You are welcome to push back , Maybe be nice about it , but you can say I don't agree with these edits .
Here's why , and maybe the two of you as a synergy editor and author can work together to come up with a compromise so that you are not losing your voice in your book . So trust your editor , but also remember this is your baby . That's great .
That's great advice . Well , guys , if you've got further questions on the editing process , leave them as a comment on this video , on YouTube or in our team . We'll get back to you on that . And don't forget , subscribe to the podcast . Leave a review on the podcast if you haven't already . This will help help get this episode and this podcast to more people .
If you're interested in doing editing with us , I would encourage you to book a call with the team . Let's chat about your book , how we can help . There's obviously a lot of ways we can help beyond just the editing process , but we're happy to help and figure out what you need .
So go to selfpublishingcom forward , slash , apply and book a call with the team there . Again , that's selfpublishingcom . Forward , slash , apply and book a call with the team . We'd love to chat about your book , how we can help . Katarina , this has been awesome . Where can people go to find out more about you ? To get one of your books ?
Where's the best place to send people ?
My website katarinawanderscom , so to spell that Q-A-T-A-R-I-N-A . My legal spelling and my pen name are a little bit different , but KatarnaWanderscom .
Cool Guys , check it out , grab a copy of Katarna's book and maybe you'll be working with her team and our team in the editing process . Katarna , thanks again . Thank you . Thank you so much for watching , or listening to , this episode of the Self-Publishing School Podcast . I know there's so many places that you can be spending your time .
There's other podcasts that you can be listening to , youtube channels that you can be watching , so thank you so much . It means the world . Now I want you to do three things right now . If you found this episode helpful I don't know if you know this , but we've got a YouTube channel . It's a companion channel to this podcast .
All the video versions of the episode are on the YouTube channel . So , number one subscribe to the YouTube channel . Number two , if you're listening to this podcast wherever , whether this is Spotify , apple podcasts . Number two I want you to subscribe to this podcast right now so you don't miss a future episode .
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