Toni Lodge // On birthing a book, breaking through grief and the beauty of Blockudoku

You actually sound fine. Every time you like I feel a bit horse, I'm like, no, you say it good? A bit horse?

Do you know that he's an aid?

Don't Halan My partner, my boyfriend Torbes, we've been together flat almost ten years. Like whenever I'm like having a MENTI bee about something or ranting and raving about something that happened at the shops or at work. Whatever he says, are we feelings or solutions based right now?

Welcome to the seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives they adore, the.

Good, bad and ugly.

The best and worst day will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneurshos walked the Suits and Heels to about matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. Cca is a series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment

All leave that life going to be introducing Tony Lunch. I think people heard that laughing went oh, I heard that it's had a horrible laugh.

That signature iconic laugh Tony. Welcome to Seize the A.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited, and.

So we've been already talking for like twenty minutes, literally naked on a couch pretty much. We are just getting real close and personal, and I.

Was going to oil you up shortly as well.

Unfortunately it's ready to clean up.

Unfortunately, as it is audio only, you can't see the proof, so you don't know whether we did or actually didn't do that.

It's already bringing me so much joy. We've been trying to make this happen for so long. Yeah, and I'm so glad we made it. So I'm like a man, I'm really sorry, but I was not waiting another day.

You actually sound fine. Every time you like I feel a bit horse, I'm like, no, you say good, a bit horse?

Do you know that's an aid?

Don't lunch Sarah Davidson.

I do call us the Davidson's. But at the moment, oh my god, you're too good.

You're too good.

I've actually been really so excited but also stressed because I have so much materials that I want to cover, and sometimes when I've read someone's book, obviously you have a brand new book which we were so excited about. I don't need therapy, which is right here for people who are looking at the video, we're going to cover it, of course. But sometimes when I've read the book, I'm like, Okay, how do I do this episode without just reading the whole book?

Yeah, because I'm going to.

Tell you everything about Tony or.

Being like, oh, of course thought about this, and like you.

Said, you read the book, so you know.

And I feel like every time I talk to someone, I'm like, do you already? Did you? Do you know that?

And did you read it?

And because when your book came out, but it was exactly the same, you can tell who's read it and who hasn't. For people who haven't read it, I'm not including you, yeah, yeah, because you obviously I haven't read it, Like you took the cellophane from the PR package of Fairly Not even that's.

On the back you can see, oh my god.

Well we will get there.

But for those who listen to the show, I always start by asking everyone what the most down to her thing is about them as a bit of an icebreaker, because you are actually very very famous, and I've had not at least at least ten people who know us separately who have said to say hello to you today.

Who is so excited Racar a message me this morning.

Oh my god, it was so excited last night my hairdresser who just did my hair. Yes, she's a superman. And I said, oh, I'll tell her and she said, no, she's I've already told her that. Yeah.

So one of the girls who used to work for her was like, oh, my new boss like yeah, and I was like, so I sent her a video because I was like, you know, maybe you'll.

Get a pay rise or something like if you tell your new yeah, you know, like, oh my new boss, like just as like subtle flakes, I know this person and I was like, oh my god, you're the Yes.

Well, since you are actually quite famous now, I usually start with a bit of an icebreaker, but I feel like since your most recent video was about how far up your butthole you use soap, and one of my favorite chapters, the second last chapter of your book is about you shitting in the street, which I closely resonate with because I've had many a nearly shit in the street store.

I think everybody does and everyone has not People don't speak about this they don't. And because everybody that's been like, oh, read the last chapter in your book. God, hasn't that happened to everyone?

I'm like, yes, turns out it has. Yes, turns out it has.

It's an equalizer, it is, it's a great leveler of people.

I mean, I got to the point I knew it was serious when it was no longer am I going to ship my pants? But it was do I shit in the leggings or outside of the leggings?

Like is easier?

So you didn't actually do it because of Saint John's ambulance guy walked back at that at the like the pivotal like I decided I was going to do it outside of the leggings, but behind the forklift was I'll show me there a very another day. But it was concrete in concrete, no bushes, no like mid Metropolitan Melbourne post a running event, only concrete.

There's low stories. Just do you know how many people have shipped themselves at the ten?

Like it was around the ten and the portal. Yeah, it was a whole thing.

I get it. But once you've crossed over into is it like it's not if it's it's like when it's is gonna happen where?

Yeah, like what logistically is going to be easy to clean up? Yeah, that's when I was like, I knew.

Ye, this is business is business time.

Anyway, I'm digressing so much so because you're already so in all the content, and I mean all of Australia already follows you and loves you, so most people know what's so down to earth about you. I thought we'd do like a bit of a different a start with some fast fires.

Oh love that that.

Are just kind of fun. And I'm not very good at fast fires because I like give a really long me to answer, like okay, chapter one is my answer, And I thought that would be a little bit more fun different. So it's very easy to self deprecate, and I think that makes people really relatable and I love self deprecation. I think it's like a beautiful form of humor. But also it just comes so easily. But it's much

That's really tough.

I shouldn't give any notice, but I did.

Wow. No, that's okay, live brainstorm or something on something mind map. Something I love about myself. I really love that I don't get complacent easily. I feel like I'm always like when I and this actually might not be a good thing about myself, But I feel like as soon as I kind of get comfortable, I'm like, Okay, how can I switch things up? Or how can I I think I really like that about myself that I am constantly But also maybe that's not a good thing. That's a good thing.

I think it can.

Anything can be a bad thing if you overdo it. True, but it's a good trait that you never just sit in your Like this show is all about step out of the comfort zone if you do the what is it if you always do the same thing you've always done, and you'll always get the same results you've always got.

Yeah, to get something you've never get gotten, you have to do something you've never done that thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think that about myself every day that we did the opposite one. I like to resay it. You'd already said it, I'd already not said it, yeah, and then I didn't. You didn't say it.

Yeah, amazing.

But I think I've probably learned that in only the last couple of years, because I think I was like, Okay, I'm twenty five, I'm like in this job where I'll probably be here forever. And then I was like okay, and I was like that's life, Like that's it, like this is where this is what I'll do until I retire. And then I was like, okay, we hun't do that.

Like solid familiar as well.

Yeah yeah, and you could have written that for decades.

Yeah. But also when people like ask you what you do for work and you say something like lawyer or something like work at the radio station or whatever, people like know what that is. And then when you try and explain being a podcaster or you.

Know, anything, creator.

Yeah, like people are like, so you know, and that's really scary. So well, because you're like, my job exists, I promise.

Yeah, yeah, it's a real life thing. I get paid monies.

Yeah, I promise.

I'm not an only fans only my feed us. But I think that's a really nice thing to like about yourself because it does mean and we'll get into this in the first section, which is how you got to where you are, it does mean that you have worked your way up from you know, Bunbury local radio to now like one of the most successful shows in Australia, which is incredible, and are still going you're just getting started.

Oh that's another tough one. Oh my god. I hope it's because it's easier something I beat myself up about. I probably actually probably the flip I'm I allowed to say is the flip of what I just said. I hate that I let my feet get itchy because I'm like, okay, well, I've got to be leveling up. I've always got to be doing something new. It's like such a hard balance. It's like something I really love about myself that I'm always trying to get better. But it's also like I

Yeah, I'm exactly the same. And I think I listened to the podcast you did with Mum and Mia about like are you happy right now? And I think that's and that's the point of CZA, is that we're measuring one part of our lives by success and progress and like not always being in the comfort zone and leveling up all the time and hustling, but then like happiness

Yeah, because I was just like working so hard and like I know that we're not allowed to say this anymore, but like that grind mindset of like ras and grind, like always hustling, like work, work, work, work, work, And now it's like, oh, I actually put my phone on Do Not Disturb sometimes.

Yeah, and I just enjoy myself.

Yeah, and I just play Blockoo Doco on my phone, which is a great game if anyone's looking for a shit game to fight. Of things.

I love about you so much. The book is so full of random shit like that that just makes me like, I love this woman even more than I thought.

Okay, coolest thing you've done this year, Oh, coolest thing I've done this year? In the meteoric rise of Tony life. What is the cool like, the coolest place.

Or opportunity you've ended up with that you had no idea you'd ever like little Tony would have been like whoa So not that she sounded like that.

She did. Actually as a SoundBite we organized earlier again, I at the moment on the Tony Ryan podcast, which is my main job. We are building like making my dreams come true because as a kid, I always wanted to be in the quantas ad. Oh my god, yeah, I really wanted to be in the girl's choir and my mum told me that girls from wa weren't allowed to be in the choir.

And you're working on being the singer in a contus.

At well, Yeah, so we have actually gone all around Australia and filmed me singing the song and that I'm not sure when this podcast will come out, but that video is in the works at the moment, or maybe has just come out or something. Yeah. So we went to Sydney and I sang I still call Australia Home at the Opera House with like three hundred of our podcast listeners behind me, all wearing the same outfit as me.

That is the coolest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, so you're going to say by Ai it was like lots and lots Tony's no, it's like all these like tarpats people who listened to our podcast.

Yeah, and I went to Alice Springs. We went down the Great Ocean Road like everything you've done, the full thing.

Yes, yeah, but I love how it's like, No, it's not with quntas.

We did. We did it by ourselves and we're hoping that Quantus on the back end I'm interested in. Yeah, but we just paid to go on quantas flys get forward thinking, well done marketing brain. Yeah, and so we're like, well, we want to do it anyway, So we just did it and hopefully they don't, you know, take the video down for copyright or whatever. But yeah, yeah, so I can't wait for people to see it because video is amazing.

I can't even imagine. That's the best thing I've ever heard.

Yeah, and so I never ever thought that I would get to do that, Oh my god. And we just like made that happen ourselves. Instead of waiting for someone to be like, oh, do you want to do this thing, we were just like fuck it, let's just do it. Yeah.

That's the thing I love the most about podcasts, and like having a community that kind of tolerates how weird you are.

Yes, you just.

Decide to do something, you just do it, like you know what tomorrow, Yeah let's film this thing.

Yeah. Not only do they kind of tolerate how weird we are, they like embrace it and encourage it. Like they people who listen to our podcasts like are the best and they just love the podcast so much and they turn up to things like watching us sing at the Opera House and.

Like it's crazy gabos for a day.

Yes, yes, I've just got thousands of friends around the world that are like my worst like enablers.

I've one hundred percent gotten weirder. Like it's brought out the find they're facilitators.

Yes, they're enabling me to just be cooked bitch basically mons.

So the other thing that comes with a big community and amazing opportunities is that you get the cool side and then you get some really weird shit in your dms. So what's the weirdest DM or like requests from a fan or just weird thing that's happened to you Since being famous.

We get heaps of requests for us to go to weddings. Heap Have you done one?

No, we're going to be really far with the precedent in the flood game.

Yeah. That's the thing is that, like you go, oh, it'd be great to go to one, but you can't go to every wedding, true. Could That's a full time job. The amount that we get invited to that's full time job. But yeah, we get invited to heaps of weddings on like twenty first and stuff like that.

Oh my god, that's amazing.

Yeah, which is really lovely because it kind of makes me feel like people consider us friends. Yeah, Like they're like, I listen to the pod and we're mates. I'm like, yeah, we are, but I'm not coming to birthday.

Thanks though, Yeah it cheers those really cute great night.

So have you got any really weird stuff?

I have generally got the loveliest audience, Like I think the great measure of it was when we did anonymous Q and as Yeah, and like when people don't have to put their name to stuff, you expect them to really go, like you think I'm opening up a can of worms. Yeah, and everyone was just lovely, like polite, wholesome, really measured questions. But the only one weird thing I've got is a request for my shoes, which I was like, oh cute, like it is in too resell on deepop or like.

Where did you buy them from? Because I'd like to buy my own, yeah, or like if.

You sell your closed secondhand that you've worn in one shoot or something, you know, where do you sell them? And I was like, oh, like wech shoes and they're like you're smelly shoes You've got? I was like how much? Yeah?

Yeah, Well before I say no, give me some more info. We're really lucky to like everybody that listens is really kind, Like we get very rarely do we get nasty messages, And yeah, the same in my personal dms. But like I've seen some horrible stuff that people receive, but I don't think I could deal with that.

No me either, And I feel like I when I talk about self doubt and push through the you know, just just stop worrying about what the haters think. It's easy to say when you don't really have any but like, if that was what I was getting every day, I don't know how some people do it.

Oh, it's really sometimes when a video goes and oh, you'd be exactly saying, like if the video goes a bit crazy, then you go, I'll read the comments for the first two days and then I won't. Yeah, so you know, there might be some really nasty shit in there, but for the moment most part, like unless the video goes like crazy, it's pretty good.

But and then when it goes crazy, I feel like the comments are so outlandish that you're like, well, I don't care about your opinion anyway, who you're going to say something that dumb? It never strikes in your heart somewhere that you were really sensitive or like vulnerable.

Yeah, it's never like you actually don't know how to stack the dishwasher In each case, that would really upset.

Me, something like did you not know that like quarter pounders aren't vegan and you're just like okay, cool man is Yeah, wow, I'm really upset about that. I'm going to close my account.

Did you say that they were? I don't know. In the video, it's really hard.

And last thing, I love how the fast Fire has taking me like oh yes, no, no, no, my Can you tell us something? And this is really hard and I've never been asked this question, and that's why I thought it'd be interesting for you. Can you tell us something you've never told anyone publicly? Is there anything? I mean, I shouldn't asked you just after a book because there.

Probably isn't really anything that people don't know. Oh, I'm really scared of the dark. Really yeah, I'm like really in the middle of the night because I'm like sleep with the TV on and stuff. Yeah, because I'm like really.

Scared and you never said that.

I don't think so maybe I have. There's probably all these people listening that are like.

Your haters now going.

I don't think I've ever said that, but yeah, I'm like really scared of the dark. No, it's just like a really lame thing, justly cute. Yeah, And we live in like an apartment building and right our car is like in a basement, like yeah, in the dark, and if you're the first person downstairs in the morning, like the lights are like an automatic sensor and it doesn't turn on until like you walk down the thing. So I like sprint until the light turns on, and then I'm like, I love.

It because it's like, what do we think is going to happen in there?

It's the unknown. If I want to make it deep, I'm actually scared of the unknown, which is, you know, very noble.

Yeah, it's less weird the more mainstream.

Yeah, I don't know if you get it.

Yeah, you might not be quoking. It's kind of existential, but like.

Don't even worry about it. I'm pretty deep.

That's okay, Okay. So the main section of the show is Your Way to a which is pretty much tracing back from young Tony before you had any idea what your future would look like. And I think a lot of people walk into your life when you get a platform and they think A you are always destined to be here or B that you always have existed here, and forget that There's been so many chapters where you were like who am I? What am I going to do? Hard chapters, chapters in like the Cole's Deli, where your

Never dreamed that they were absolutely yeah.

And the thing that I took out the most from your conclusion of the book was the idea that you used to think everything would be better when you got there. And that's kind of how this show began is that I got there really young. I got to this like law firm and this amazing job, and everything was ticked, and then I was like, am I going to sit here for it?

Like? Is there?

Is that? It?

Yeah? Totally?

Or does there keep changing? Should it keep changing?

And if we're always like aiming for this static place of happiness, then what else is there once to get there? So I love the idea that actually life unravels in chapters and your comfort zone catches up to you. So let's go back all the way to the very beginning, to your younger self in Rolling Stone.

For how look at you all this?

I did? I am one of those people.

Who actually read the book.

Your three siblings are as sachit terrias she likes some walks on the beach. And you had so many career hopes. And I think one of the things that younger listeners when they're trying to figure out who they are is is like they think there's a they think there's five jobs that exist, but b they think they need to know what they're supposed to be early and you definitely had a media theme. But like you've wanted to be everything. A ballerina yeap, wanted to be a ballerina, the first

It's really sad to me that you didn't fulfill that. Dre's still upset. My flute's still in my cupboard. Yeah, yeah, I should have brought it today. I want to shame waste opportunity.

There's still time, but yeah, tell us about how you began, how you chose you. You need to greet you and all that stuff.

Well, I think, yeah, it's really interesting the thought of, yeah, if you don't know what you want to do, that's it, and you'll die when you're like, you'll graduate high school and if you don't know what you want to do forever, you actually just pass away. Yeah, because I remember a

That's the stest thing, not how cashra just just work either the criteria though, it's like if my job will be based on my favorite Times table.

Also not a very smart kid, only none of my two's. I mean that does open a lot of doors. There's a two dollars shop in every city, right, pretty smart.

It's transferable.

Every currency has.

Yes, except when you go to like because isn't rupee or like cra million, Yeah two million, just come for the zero. The zeros at adam back on and be fine, really fine. But so that's kind of I went through so many things, and like you said, was always pretty media based, like wanted to be balerin o and singer, flute player, all of that everything, And I was like, I'm just destined for greatness, don't know what I will do.

So the theme song at my funeral will be Yeah.

Literally, I was like, oh, well they told me that if I wasn't if I didn't get in, then that was it. And I was like, okay, cool, So what do I do now. And I remember having this like actual breakdown because I was like, what, I don't know what else there is. I didn't know myself at all, because I was sixteen or seventeen, however old you are when you finish year twelve. And I was like, I don't know myself. I don't know what I want to do.

Who hasn't read the book yet. Yeah, I mean, you're like, I know, you need to explain it.

I get it. I read it.

I've got some proof here, I've got some notes that I took earlier.

And I started like listening to music again and feeling myself. And then I was like, oh, I think what I'll go and do is sound engineering, which is what I ended up getting in. And that was like audio production, like working in theater, working on music stuff, and just like a huge range. But I was like, I feel like that might be the right direction. And then yeah, so I managed to get in and I was like, well, I'm set, this is it, this will be me. Yeah, I finally have arisen.

It's easter, I am resurrected.

And yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm back on. I'm back on, like here we go. And then yes, I was studying, and then I had no idea where I what I really wanted to do. But I thought that I really wanted to own my own record label and have like a recording studio like music stuff. That was what I really wanted to do when I started. And then I got offered a job in radio, like by accident, and I was like, well, this is it might as well?

Is that it ostereo?

Yes?

Yeah, Bunbury, Yes.

In Bumbrey. Yeah, and that was like an hour and a half away from my home and really yeah, so I was living with my boyfriend and all that stuff, and my mom passed away while I was at UNI. So I ended up deferring for a year and trying to like figure out what I wanted to do, and I ended up going back and then I got off with that job in radio. So I feel like it was such a I mean, UNI for everybody is like

You know, you were born in ninety three, Like, how do you know about MSN?

What MSN is a thing? MSN? Yeah?

Really, yes, I feel like that was after your era.

No, I'm like with and yeah, so I feel like it's pivotal for everybody. But I was just like, Okay, my life is all of a sudden, like so different. And that was when I was kind of like I need to flip everything on its head because it kind of half already years, and yeah, I was like, yeah, I will take that job. It's not what I wanted to do, not what I ever thought that I would do, didn't know anything about it, but I was like, yep, cool, see ya, Oh my god, Yeah, And that was pretty wild.

I feel like even reading all the chapters of going like getting to there but then getting from there to here is a combination of like accidentally being in the right position.

Totally so lucky.

But and then I was going to say, but not only luck, because I think we all kind of attribute so much to luck, Like, yeah, I was in the right place at the right time, and I wouldn't have got that thing if I wasn't. But you kind of have to turn luck into an opportunity, right.

Take that adrenaline and make it something. Yeah, And because also there are people that are in the right spot but don't realize yeah, and then don't like harness that and take advantage of whatever kind of place they've fallen

Yeah, totally. And I think you do see a lot of people who do have so many lucky opportunities and not necessarily squander it, but they don't build the relationships or they don't or they tried the opportunity, but they don't make the most of it to then take it to the next level. Like not everyone who had exactly the same luck as you would be where you are right now. So how did you then go from like the very very entry level wa small you know position as like while you were still at UNI to now

I don't know, Like no, it's still just like what the It's wild. I would have even six months ago, a year like never ever dreamed that I was in this spot like. So when I first started working in radio, I was like, oh my god, I could really make something out of this, and kind of imagined that, you know, someone would be like, oh my god, yeah, you know, like take me or just you know, like recognize my

Upset by all this raw talent yeahing unnoticed.

Cook it cook my raw talent. And I just kind of started doing random things around the radio station. And then when I was in bumburriy, all I wanted was to like go to Metro and I was like, I'll make more money and I'll be in a big city and I'll you know. And that was kind of where the burnout started to happen, because I was doing the thing I was talking about before, like my feet were too itchy, and I don't know whether I was really ready. But I ended up applying for this job in Sydney

Oh my gosh. See this is a bit like the bit between the first job and where you are now is the bit where I think maybe in generations ago, the pathways were kind of clearer and it was easier to goal set and to be, like, you know, in ten years, this is where the person who did this before me ended up. So that's where I can be whereas I feel like in our ja neration, no one's

I think it was probably the small steps, but by accident. Yeah, I don't I think that. When I got to Breakfast Radio in Melbourne, I was just a producer, but I was like, this show is great. I'm really happy. I was in my dream city. Like I grew up in Perth and I always wanted to end up in Melbourne. My boyfriend was the same, he was like, I'd love to live in Melbourne and then so it was kind of like that was such a personal goal. But then getting that job, I was like cool, like I could

Yes, oh my god, like.

It doesn't and even if you and this is not just I don't want this to sound super unrelatable, because I think this is the case like any job, any circumstance, Like no one ever just says like, oh you've been waiting really patiently, did you want this job as a nurse? Or did so hard for this? You know, like there's actually no one taking note of that, like you have to tell someone. And then when I realized that, I was like, look, you know, i'd really like to be

So that actually kind of leads it's a segyefully into like part of the conversation is always around your which is the bits that you don't see as much of because like, no one wants to be a negative Nancy. But I think it's the bit that helps you more to hear about on your own journey that everyone has a shit time, right, like even to get to the funnest parts or the most fulfilling parts, or the coolest

Well, the first thing that you said about like the imposter syndrome and just like the self doubt that was huge. I you know, not only were they're not really any people that I knew that had ever done what I wanted to do. You know, like if you want to be a lawyer or a teacher, chances are that your dad says, oh, well, Mick down the road, he's a lawyer. You know, he's a horse.

Question, dude, he can do the Navy eight.

You know, like there's just all these you know, people around you that you see these similarities between like what you want to achieve or what you want to do, the same way that like if you see your mum being a mum, you go, okay, well I want to be a mum or whatever, you just assume that your journey is going to look like that. And I didn't know anybody that had done what I There are millions of people that have done what I have now done,

Like just gonna happen.

But I was, and I didn't know what it was and I didn't know why. But I remember like seeing mansions at the top of the in rolling Stone, like in Perth where I grew up, and saying to my mum like, oh, one day I'm going to live there and you'll be visiting me there.

Like you just knew.

I was just like yeah, one day, I mean, she's dead so she isn't and I don't live in Perth anymore, so so you know, so that's all over. But but my there was just there was so much like I was literally two people in one brain, and that was really hard because I was battling with this person who was like so fucking positive and so sure of myself, but doubting every single step of the way and being like, well, you can't, like you can't do that, that's not possible.

She did, in fact therapy.

But yeah, so I feel like that part is such a massive part of who I am because and this way sounds really twisted and people go oh when I say it, but I'm almost so grateful that my mom died because well, not that I'm grateful that she died, but I know what you mean, Like, I am so grateful that I learned so much about myself at such a young age and built all of these kind of things into my personality. I can now handle so much

Yeah, that's so interesting because I think it's it brings me back to that whole idea that life is so much like maybe not these exact proportions, but ten percent what happens to you in ninety percent what you make of it. Like if she was going to pass away when you were nineteen, if that was in the stars for you, no matter what, it's what you did with

Yeah. And I think as well, lots of I get lots of messages all the time of people being like I have experienced grief, whether it was like a sibling or a parent pass away or you know, whatever circumstance it was. And I said, I've never heard somebody make jokes about their mum passing away and I've never related to something more. Yeah, right, And I because I do it because it's like a way for me to talk

Okay, Yeah, you don't want to precate the other person.

Yeah, So then am I comforting you even though I'm the one who at that time needs the love. Yeah? And I never thought of like that. And then someone said to me, they like called me out. They're like, well,

Oh my god, yeah, I talked about this reason I saw a meme that was like a similar thing. Life changing, so good, life changing.

It has changed because not only does it give me what I want in that moment, makes me think about what I want, Like do I want to be like, oh, so this bitch cut me off in the car park, and do I just want to like be a dick about that for five minutes, or do I want him to go like, well maybe in the future. I don't know what the.

Don't steal a car park when she's unloading her baby Tony.

Such a bitch, such an extreme kid.

She she's postpartum.

Literally I would just with a record, I would not do that. But like, it's really changed our relationship because he's like, you get what you want out of me, and then it feels so much more satisfying because I then go, I actually just want to whinge about and he goes, well, what a bitch? Yeah, yes, Instead of going, well, were you in the wrong or you know.

It is like when I read that, I was like, that is one of the most game changing thought provokers for anyone, because if you don't know, like you can't get the response from your partner if you don't even know what you want exactly. But also they can't give it to you if you don't just say I actually don't want a solution. And I think because men often like masternalization, but men's default thinking is a solution is a love language, like that's helping you, but I often don't want one.

Like no my or need one for that specific Yeah, I was wrong.

I just want to feel like I was correct, So help me for a second and then I'll get past it. And I think, like, without even realizing, that's how Nick and I survived in business because we learned how to do that without knowing that that's but once I put a label on it, I was like, oh, oh, that's.

What we do.

Yeah, And now like, if you can get to it quickly, you avoid so much conflict.

Yeah. And because then I'm not like, oh, you never give me what I want, He's like, well, you don't tell me what you need from me? So we've been doing that for a couple of years and he always asked me that now, and I'm like, oh, that's exactly I needed you to call me out then, Like I actually needed you to be like, Tony, what are we doing here? Yeah? Yeah, And I find it really helpful.

Oh my god, it's that's revolutionary, among so many other things in this book that are revolutionary. And I think it's beautiful that so many people have, particularly on the grief topic, but on every topic. You've opened up so much about to let people see that it's not all just laughter and hilarious content, like truly hilarious, but there are so many sides of you that people can really relate to. What has it been like to write the book?

Cathartic?

Horrible, amazing, scary, like.

Did you get a vulnerability hangover? We were talking before we went on air about how like the writing process is so long and you don't tell anyone about it, that your journey started like a year ago, so you kind of get a little bit over your own book by the time you just like, ill, how do you feel about it now?

So the writing journey was definitely very cathartic because there was like so many things, and for anybody that doesn't know, every chapter of the book is built on a lie. So I started reading writing the book and I was like, oh, you know, like what should the layout be? And you know, what do I really want to like convey in this? And I was like, oh, you know, like I want to talk about how I always wake up at five am and I go to the gym. And I was like, well,

Need to be ready to be ready.

Yeah, I'll soak that and maybe someone else in the house will get to it tomorrow very well, that toobs will wake up and be like fucking hell, it's so that by didn't have you boiled water, like it did not need to be soaked.

Overnight triven noodles, and.

But so like really simple things like that, and then lying times off about being happy and being fulfilled and feeling you know, like I was at the top of

It's like like gonna be in my bio, like my title is now provider of book A quote.

Seriously, you read my email to you when you asked me, was.

Like, why, well, why do you want me?

This is the most like this is the best things ever happen in my life.

No, So I was just like, she's gonna say no, Like there's no way. I was honestly so honored when you said yes, yeah, because I asked you to read an entire book for like, because like I can't pay you, Like I can't pay you because that would be like incredibly unethical. Imagine if I was like, I'll pay you to give me a really good.

Review, I would have been like how much.

Yeah, my fees and.

Issues are like a free added in. They're an adult gift we purchase.

But like, I can't even remember what I was probably wasn't interesting.

It was such an honor and to like I poured over it. I printed it. I got like printed out the PDF and was like scribbling all over the place and it was it was I would.

Take that out. But I wonder if you've seen this three times.

No, it was such a joy, And I think it was such a joy to feel like, and you said this about the show, that to feel like we know you so well and we have such an intimate insight into what you find funny, into you and Ryan's day to day, like you talk so much and share so much about your life to feel like we know you, but then to see this whole other side of how

Thank you. But I think exactly like you said earlier, most people are like, oh, so you're famous, so you always had that, or oh so you've got a really successful business job, a huge family of beautiful kids or whatever, and you just go, oh, well, you know, obviously your

Weakness exactly, yeah, like there's something wrong with you, like you're faulty because you need help.

In fact, now I would say that it's considered the opposite.

It's like enlightened.

Yeah, that you have the ability to like read your own cues and go. I do need actually to riff about this with somebody. But to hear that there are older people that are going to therapy because of what I wrote is like I can't believe that that's really amazing. So yeah, it's been beautiful.

I've like literally spent I've like literally spent like thousands of dollars on therapy, like one hundred percent wouldn't be who I am without it.

Yeah. I think it's really empowering to realize that you are allowed to like need help and that it's only natural. And almost to the point where I was like, oh my god, but if I need someone, I'm cuckoo. And I was like, actually I am kokoo, a cuckoo.

I don't want to find out why, but I want to talk about, like just let's just ventilate the cuckoo the cuck I like that. So one of the things I think was really interesting that I read in the book was how during your time with Jason PJ. I love PJ so much. On her podcast, raisently if you did show no I haven't.

No.

She's such a legend.

Yeah she is, And there was a chapter about her.

I think another thing I love is how many times in people's journeys there's a pivotal conversation. There's often like it's not sometimes the courses you go to or the big strategy days that you have. It's like one chat you have with someone or one day that Ryan says, if you don't want to do a show, then do some videos. Just do them, like you know, it's it's just some it's often in the smaller moments that someone says something to you and when it catches.

You off guard. Yeah, and that's often when you're the most open to change as well.

Yeah, when you're not forcing something to happen, but it becomes a pivotal moment. And you guys had a conversation about her asking you why do you want to be famous? Why have you always wanted this? And what does that mean to you? And it kind of touches on the theme of this show, which is that often most of us been all of our lives measuring our lives by success, which is financial, which is prestige, which is like, you know whatever, it's measured by followers like numbers, metrics to

Definitely feel happy. That's the biggest one. I have like so much freedom as well now and that's probably what I value more over. And it's easy to say when you've got it, right, I think that's the other thing that to acknowledge that, Like it's easy to say this when you have it, when you do have freedom. But at the time, you know, like I was really happy and I wasn't earning great money, but I was doing okay, and my partner was studying, so that was quite tight.

Doing anything else in it.

Yes, So I just I think that now knowing that we have the freedom to do crazy things like go and film the Quantus video and you know, like that you know that I'm sitting here with you today and this is worklack. I just I'm very very lucky. But I think to have gone through all of that, I wouldn't appreciate what I have now as much if I hadn't had to kind of really figure it out. If that makes sense, Yeah, totally.

And I think it's so interesting how you can visibly see looking back, like it only makes sense in retrospect, but looking at each chapter, you can see how your metrics for what you thought, whether you thought that was good or not, have changed. And it's almost like and I'm sure it's still there, but that whole like am

Yeah, And I think as well, knowing that it's not everyone's end point, like this is what I'm doing at the moment is someone's worst nightmare, but yeah, other people are doing is my worst? You know, Like, I think there are so many different ways of looking at it. And as you were saying, well for about the metrics of success and just realizing that just because somebody else has a lot of money doesn't mean they're happy, vice versa. You know, there's so many ways of looking at it.

Yeah, totally, and realize what your happiness is tied to, and like letting go of tying it to some of those things, realizing that that actually it not that like money and metrics aren't important because we wouldn't have our careers if we didn't think about it to an extent. And yeah, it's easier to say it when things going well. Yeah, but it's not. It doesn't equal happiness, like you've got

Yeah, and it's like that stuff is all yeah, it's all important and obviously yeah allows me to do what I do. But I think that I was like, oh, well, when I get that, I'll be fine. But then it's like, oh, well you get that, like keep growing and that's the next metric. Yeah, And then instead of that scaring me, I'm like, yeah, like, let's reach more people. Let's you know,

Yeah, that's a metrics.

If the thing that you want to do is be rich as fuck, then do it. Yeah. Like and I think there's so many, you know, such a stigma of being like, oh you want to be rich, Like well if you do, but that's actually like that's fine. It might be your metric. You might be doing something else. It might be like I just really want to buy my own home or whatever, but like if you want to do that, things like do it, but just own it.

Yeah, yeah, or don't yeah, or don't realize that that's not the thing that makes Yeah, I know what you mean, Like, don't make it your b all and end or but if that is your old metric, then like that's fine for it. Yeah, if it's not your metric, don't spend your life chasing it exactly.

Yeah.

Do you feel famous now? Like when was the moment when you thought, oh my god, I'm actually like fucking famous because in.

The Bull not fucking famous.

It was that your vagina was recognized.

Yes, yes, yes, at the moment that was pretty terrifying.

Imagine it, like, yes, I am Tony Long, thank you my left flack.

Who Oh, that's a weird one. It's a weird question, and it.

Is such a weird question and it's such an ick. But also because you talk about a lot in the book that you.

Went to when you were younger, I do I think you know when something happens really slowly, like the frog in a potter boiling, Like if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, it'll jump straight out. But if you put it in slow and like heat it up slowly, you know it just like it gets used to it, I feel like because it kind of happened quickly, but like in a you know.

Yeah, it's deadily gradual over a short amount of time.

Yeah, it wasn't as if one day I walked outside and there was like a thousand paparazzi at my door and that's still not the case. Yeah my god, they're outside right now.

I call the dail and was like, it's gonna be inframed today.

But but I think it's probably more just that, like we have people every single day, like joining our Facebook group and your messaging on Instagram being like just found you guys. Going back through the catalog, love the pod so much. That stuff is like so cool and I can't believe that people are finding it. But probably the very cool like box Tick moment the billboard, Oh my god, yeah, oh my god, that's so cool. It was what the fuck? I'm just like then my face was just up there.

So I haven't spent that much time on tap the Tony and Ryan Show, guys, in case you didn't want that, man, because it's one of the things that it's easy to get access to the show, Like people often meet you at this chapter and you know, I like to spend time and stuff that it doesn't get as much airtime. But I do want to ask you before we go, what is it like working so closely with your work husband? Like,

Yeah, which is so interesting, right.

So we've been trying to do his episode for probably even longer than you and I think to do. So he's going to add these about you. I like that, But favorite things about working with him and biggest like x or pet peeves about working with him.

He's always late, which I hate. Is he always fucking late? Always so busy?

I'm like, how's he fit that all in?

I know, how does he fit in being late? I know it's very impressive. He Honestly, I think it's very easy to be like but he is a really great guy and he's the biggest champion of me, and he's made me learn so much about like like that his success is my success and vice versa. And so when, for example, when I got off with the book, I was like, oh, like, it's probably going to take up a bit of my time. Do you mind? He was like, Tony,

Yeahs.

I'm the opposite about it. Yeah, I'm like a permission asker. Yeah.

One really sweet thing he said about you, which is a strength and a downfall at the same time, was that you if I said to you, Babe, I can only do the podcast at two am and it's going to be in Mars, you'd be like, I will bend over backwards to be there. Like you're a real over deliverer, Like you're very like you you're a beautiful people pleaser, and I'm the same. I just like, no, it's not my strength.

No, but it's really it's so hard because now I am so busy. Yeah, I have to flex those muscles a bit more than I've ever had to, and that's I find that really hard.

Yeah.

Like literally, whenever anyone dms me with a go fund me, I'm like, oh, I can't share it, but I just donate myself, like it's costume me a fortune. But I'm the same.

It's like he would be or like Nick would say to me, you know there's a third option, like don't do any of those things. But I'm like, no, it's either all it's like yeah, people please one way or people the other way.

Yeah, if the only options are yes, Like for me, things are very black and white. I'm like it's yes or no. And Ryan's like there is so much gray area, like something doesn't have to just be yes or no. He's like, explore what else you could do instead? Such a good one, which is like such a huge learning for me because I'm like, oh, well, if someone says no, it's no.

Yeah, and then like end of story. Yeah, here's my two hundred dollars I'm donating kid, Yeah, fun because I feel that.

Yeah, And then I'm just like, oh my god, did I donate? Oh no, for too much whatever. But he's just like, there are other things that you can say to people that is still lovely. Yeah, And people are allowed to ask and you're allowed to say no.

Yeah revolutionary yep.

When I was like, oh, I feel so rude asking, he was like, You're allowed to ask me anything you want, but I'm allowed to say no. Yeah. Good, which is when, again quite mind blowing, when all of a sudden, you realize like, oh, that's people are just asking because that is their actual right to say whatever they want to ask a question. Yeah. But then if I say no and they go okay, that's allowed.

Yeah.

I mean if they are then unreasonable obviously that's a different situation.

But like, yeah, yeah, it still takes my brain a lot to get on that. I'm like, wait, you have to ask, like, what do you mean?

Ye who said that? We got your permission to do that.

So you guys are now like how much what's the workload are you?

Like? Full time? Tony and Ryan?

Yeah, like every day recording, so we record. We've got a little studio in Richmond.

It's beautiful by the way, Yeah we love it, like it looks so good.

Yeah we love it. But yes we do that, and then we kind of record and are in the studio in the beginning of the week and leave the end of the week to kind of travel if we need to, or take meetings or go out and film big stuff like what we've just done with the Quantus video. We were traveling at the end of the week to try and get everything done. But every week is really different,

So one of the things I find with doing a job where everything is so much fun and it's really easy to blur the lines between work and play because it doesn't really feel like work so much of it is actually also fun that then you mentioned burnout of the start and being a people pleaser, it becomes really difficult to actually do anything outside of work because everything is like incidentally also helping with your job.

So oh, you're like, oh, something might pop up, so I won't plan that thing because just in case.

Yeah, and all you sort of like commit to an entire weekend of fun stuff that's kind of work, but then on the Monday, like, why am I tired? And yeah, because you didn't take any time off that would still work even if it was fun work. So the last section is called plata, which is really just the things you do that aren't for work, that aren't like I would, you know, listen to a business podcast, but because it was a podcast, I was.

Like like, oh this, Oh I'm honesting like it's.

Downtime, but it's not at all. So one of them, one of the chapters of your book or like little sections of things that you love doing that are just for fun was things that are my personal equivalent to the first bite of a double quarter pounder. So that's your equivalent of plata, like the things that just make you so happy? A do you make time for those now? Like do you have any kind of hobbies that aren't

I really struggle with this. This is like a really hard because I feel bad about rest because I feel lazy. That's definitely like childhood trauma like creeping into my life. But recently I just started seeing a trainer, like a personal trainer. I saw this and.

I was like, you're killing it.

I was like, what's on you. I was like, y'all go, like see how it goes. And now I go three times a week. It makes me so happy. I like look forward and I never thought that I'd be this person, but I look forward to it every single day that I'm going. I'm like pumped for it. And that is something where I don't have my phone on me, Like it's literally in a locker in the gym, so not like it's not near me at all and I'm just me, which I really really like. I also love craft, Oh

See, this is my thing all of us need like tactile, non digital. Yeah, plays Ta that like you can't multitask with Yeah. I feel like that's usually the definition. And you can't survive this world being on your phone all the time without having something like ours is. We've started doing c Z eight events that are Playta events to force people into joy and they're all crafty. They're like tufting.

Now you come around, just come over from Yes, it's.

Craft, yes, arts, and it's kindergarten.

It's fun. Oh my god. Because I think, like most people, my like downtime, very loose use of the term downtime was like watching TV and being on my phone or scrolling Instagram. And now Instagram is work. Like when I'm on Instagram, it's like, oh, I'll just reply to a few messages or whatever, and like I really enjoy doing that, but it is still your brain's like on, yeah, rather than just sitting there and like drooling at the TV, you know, which is sometimes lovely.

That's my downtime.

Yeah, But then I realized that, like, oh I'm doing that, and I'm on Instagram and I'm kind of thinking about like being on and doing work stuff. But yeah, so I've had to be very creative with like putting my phone down and not being part of the you know, Gridge what is it Gridge? Yeah, the metrics, I don't know. Yeah, but yeah, I found those two things are like, yeah, they've really helped. Yeah. I also love getting wet, swimming, swimming, surfing. Yeah, yeah,

Wow, i' mean pivot, Yeah, amazing swimming surfing w A Girl, Yeah that's beach girl. Yeah. Do you actually miss the weather?

Yeah? Yeah, I missed the beach a lot because you don't really have beaches in Melbourne. It's like the bay.

Yeah, and like there, I used to get really pissed off of my w A friends for being like killed as like a sewer, and then I went to like start spending time at w I was like, yeah, it's like a different Yeah.

I hadn't. I had actually no idea to like.

Citybach, which is like ten minutes from the city. I was like, we're really like it's fine, yeah, okay, okay, okay, oh my god. I feel like I could literally talk to you for hours and hours an hour, I think we did, but I know you're a very busy person. So I will wrap up with the very last question, which is just what's your favorite quote? If you have one?

Oh, the only people that judge you are those that are doing less. I love that one. It's a Ryan John Special. Actually, oh my god. He was like, true, if there are people that are being dicks to you, it's because they're not doing it. Because it leads into the other the Brene Brown quote, and it's like, unless someone's in the arena with you, yeah, don't. Yeah.

It's also I think it's a Roosevelt quote that the man the man in the arena one and then same Yeah. It's like a long form version. It's like a whole page paragraph quote about the only person I will something something. Yet, oh my god, I'm like, the man in the arena is the one who's like advice I'll listen to.

Yeah, yeah, and yeah, don't take someone's no if you wouldn't take their yes as well. Is another one that I really like. I love that And I said that by accident on someone's podcast, and I was say, is that already a quote, and I think it is. But I was like, yeah, like if somebody wouldn't, if you wouldn't take their advice, don't take their criticism.

Yes, both such good ones.

Yeah, so I gave you about six. You know, I love that. I love that.

It's just like a people please.

Oh my god, I give you seventy five.

It's the next flip book. That could just be a Tony Lodge special. Oh my god, because I just gave you like fifty quotes to put in there in this episode, it would be cut out like, yeah, maybe their handmade Tony Lodge has made all of the We only have five in stock, and there's six hundred.

Dollars each.

Take a year in production.

But if you order now even than seven.

Oh, thank you so much, my love. You've been amazing.

Thank you for having me.

Make sure to put the links to the book and the show in the show notes.

Thank you, thank you.

Yay. Oh I am actually obsessed with Tony even more than I was before, if that's possible. The laughter in this hour was so good for my soul, and I hope it was for yours too. As always, if you enjoyed listening along, pretty please share some neighborhood love for the episode and for Tony herself, tagging her at Tony Lodge, No Spaces, no Underscores to thank her for so generously giving her time and energy to us all. And the link to buy her brilliant book is in the show notes.