Marc Champagne // We are all only one question away from a completely different life...

fulfillment along the way. There are so many people without whom this show would not have been possible, but this guest in particular really pushed me forwards at the pivotal moment where I could have backed out. We connected a few years ago when I jumped on his own incredible show Behind the Human for one of my very first ever podcast interviews, and a few months later it was Mark who I turned to when I wanted to start

my own show. Back then, he was about the only person I even knew with their own podcast, and I still can't believe how instantly and generously he shared the details of his gear software, reaching out to guests, and everything in between about bringing a podcast to life and what an absolute privilege years later now to at least begin to repay the favor by sharing the exciting news

about his brand new book, Personal Socrates. Although I don't really know if I'm repaying him a favor, I think he's doing me another one by sharing his incredible wisdom on the show. Mark Champagne has one of those fascinating stories that begins with a whole decade in an area that now I can't even imagine him in doing corporate

sales and brand management for pharmaceutical and biotech companies. His side passion for photography was the first inclination of a possible career shift, building from self taught newbie to even joining photographers without borders on a trip from his native Canada to Senegal. But it was through his groundbreaking journaling and mental fitness app Keio that I first met Mark, which saw incredible success, building up to eighty six point nine million impressions on Apple until the day he decided

to delete it. And now he's a brand new author helping us ask bigger and better questions to upgrade our lives, just at the perfect time for World Mental Health Month. I'm sure if it's his Canadian background or not, but you'll hear instantly what a genuine and kind soul Mark is and his book is exactly the handbook to happiness and mental fitness that we all need as we continue to navigate so much uncertainty and change.

Back when I've had the idea for CZA three years ago, I think it was I had been on Mark's incredible podcast, which we'll talk about, and it was one of the very first podcast interviews I'd ever done, and I enjoyed it so much. In a couple of months later, I had the idea of, oh, you know, I've told this story before. I wanted to have more conversations in a longer kind of forum. But I didn't know anything about podcasts.

And I always say that in the moment of self doubt, you have to go to the right person and someone can either tip you away from that dream.

when it comes to interviews and whatnot. I know you're doing a ton of different things, but I hope you're enjoying it because it's so fun.

and giving. And I always think, you know, in so many times in your life, like you just mentioned finding something that I, you know, love and I'm good at. Without your push in the right direction, I couldn't have found that because I wouldn't have known, because I wouldn't have started interviewing people. And so I think in anyone's path, yay, you know, we go through all the different twists and turns and people and pivotal moments, and that email and your response was one of them for me.

am so so thrilled, but as you know. The way I've developed the whole structure of the show is that because people often encounter you now knowing so much about mental fitness and strategies to live your best life and have now become a published author and have an incredibly successful podcast, it's so easy to assume that you were born enlightened and that you always knew you would end up here, and that you know you've this was a

logical pathway for you. But I definitely want to dive all the way deep into the book, and I still I also can't believe that I'm in it. It blows me away. I just want to cry, but which we will get to sure. But I think what I love most is tracing back from like childhood mark and filling the gap of between you know, the first time you ever thought about having a job and what that would

mean to the job you're in now. There's always so much stuff in between that often doesn't make sense at the time, and that it never follows a linear path. But I love reminding everyone that if they haven't found their pathway yet, you know, most people don't straight away on their first or second or even third goes. And I like You've done so many interesting but totally unrelated things,

so definitely want to cover that. But first ice breaker, Yeah, what is the most down to earth thing about you?

questions and all of that. I mean, for me, if I can offer that in all experiences, and obviously I'm not perfect and I fail at this all the time, but that's the thing I hope people leave with and think, wow, that was you know, he was really present, and I feel more energized after being you know, with him for example. I mean, that's that's my ultimate goal. I don't care what I'm doing. If I can leave someone more energized than when they came in, then that puts a smile on my face.

I just I don't have that. So I feel really grateful. Obviously, I was brought up in a really loving household and support of parents and whatnot, but raised and born and lived and went university as well in like a really small town and it was just you know, hanging out outside,

playing doing things like basketball. I was big into skateboarding in the before university and whatnot, and just you know, having a good time with friends and it wasn't until I can't remember what age I was, but definitely before university and whatnot, that I would I'd spend the summers going to the city which for any Canadians or anyone that's been the Canada that you'd probably recognize Toronto. That's our biggest city in the country, which is about four

hours away from where I grew up. And I would spend the summers there or at least a month there with an aunt and uncle. And that was my exposure to like the business world and traffic, right, yeah, exactly.

And I remember coming in and be like six or seven lanes of traffic and just thinking, wow, like this is where things are happening, and just being so excited about congestion essentially, which just ridiculous, right, But it opened me up to this this whole other world that I just wasn't exposed to, and that's I think gave me a little bit of the you know, the curiosity around business life and marketing and things like that, which is what I ultimately went to university for and then ended

up moving and I lived in Toronto for quite some time with completely different opinions of traffic. Obviously at an older.

a book. The closest I've ever come to having excitement about writing, I was young and I had my parents had this all typewriter from I guess when they were kids, and I remember finding it and pulling it out and just slapping on the keys, and I was trying to write some sort of you know, fictional story with ultimate failure. Like it sucked, it was, but I remember thinking, I'm like, wow, I love to write a book one day and it kind of stopped there and here we are.

head office doing all this training. Depending on your degree and kind of what you needed. But it was at that moment where I remember thinking, well, I'm in a sales role. We're all being trained essentially in the same way, Like, how possibly could I stand out if if we're going to and I'm in a sales role, so like, I mean, there's obviously motivation to that. They had like trips and wards and things like that, like how could I stand out?

And that's that's what started the journey into mental fitness. I didn't know that at that time, but I got up earlier and I started reading positive things and then all of a sudden that positive content, you know, at that time, I was reading like Success magazine, and it was exposed to people like Tony Robbins and Robin Sharma

and all these different people. And over the years started seeing, Wow, it doesn't matter what kind of content I'm consuming in this space, one hundred percent of the people have some sort of reflective practice. And I was gravitating towards journaling. So throughout the eight or nine years in that world, you know, just navigating job changes and life disruptions and all these different things, I would get up early, I'd bring in that content for me. I was gravitating towards

the questions that all these people were reflecting on. I'd write those down and then I would reflect on them the next morning to my own practice in relation to where I was at in my life. I did that for you years, years, until getting frustrated with the tools. And that's where we met. Was at that kind of junction in my life when I left that world.

so many different cool things that you've done. You were with photographers without Borders doing photography for a water charity in Senegal, Like, how did that come about?

like that. And now, I mean, photographer has given me the greatest gift I could ever ask for. I can't go anywhere without seeing the photo or that composition, right, which again just allows you to step into the present moment and see the detail. So it you know, it started in university and I just I kept you know,

it's kind of self taught. Ironically. I was following someone by the name of Chase Jarvis, who's won a profile in the book, and that's how I learned photography because he was a globally renowned photographer and I was just following all those online you know, courses and his teachings and stuff like that. And then eventually I was I was exposed to this Photographers without Borders, and it was

such an amazing opportunity. I got the company, the Time of Artists that I was working for to help sponsor me to go, and I took every I think it was a three week trip and we went to Sinegal and I went with a company called Water Charity, not Charity Water. There's two of them, essentially water Charity that have the same name, and they needed someone to essentially, you know, document and capture all of the projects that they had going on on the ground so that people

could see, you know, the effects and the villages. And it was just such I mean, I'll never forget that experience. I mean, just meeting the happiest people I've probably met to this day that have just nothing right, nothing in art sense of the sense of the world, but you know, they they they're just so grateful for what they do have and the sense of community and the smiles, you know, capturing that through the lens was just I'll never forget that.

just joy with small things. And I think that's such a common reflection for people traveling to countries like this and expecting to feel like we have so much and they have so little, but actually you get exposed to such a deeper gratitude than you've probably ever thought about before.

out of that, which is which is valid. But the charity that I was going over with wanted to show the happiness that was being brought because of you know, a well that was doug or some sort of water system that was set up. So it was just, you know,

kind of a combination of two really magical things. To be able to capture that and feel that from these villages and hopefully, I mean those those images still live on and they're using them, hopefully you know, it motivates others to step in and help and bring that you know, that joy and that happiness and that health to so many more people. So it's yeah, I often think about that trip and it's something I'd love to do again at any moment. Frankly, well once this world opens up.

Like it's not towards the ultimate dream. But I think those activities you do for breadth are actually indirectly more valuable than anything that you could do that's just like immediately clear what the benefit is going to be at the time. How do you feel about that kind of idea of making time for stuff that isn't necessarily productive for your ultimate goal but kind of also is I'm being so inarticulate, but do you know what I mean?

but mentally I was trying. It's like I want or if I can get this going and then I can go all in on on the photography, because it, you know, really lights me up. But it came to a point where I remember just feeling like even thinking like that. Or it was probably weddings, because those are the most stressful things to ever shoot with your photographer. I'll never

forget those experiences. It's probably the weddings, but it was it came down to, you know what I'm kind of I'm robbing myself of the joy of this hobby and and this art or this practice that I don't want to lose, you know, the sense of excitement and like the wonder and everything that brings to me. So I actually stopped, you know, focusing on essentially creating another revenue stream for me and my family and just you know

what I'm gonna I'm gonna shoot casually. And then like our phones really were upgraded, and I remember just thinking, no, we always have a phone. But I'm also still not going to give up the the practice of slowing down and you know, not just taking a photo to take a photo, but like actually framing something even though I'm not using a canon or Sony or something like that, I'm using my film, but be present and conscious with

the practice and keep that up. And that I still do to this day, and it's something I'm super grateful for.

In fact, sometimes that kind of allows you to maintain the joy. So anyone listening, you know, give yourself permission to decide, I don't need to do it as a job. It's okay if that's on the side true, And it's okay if you don't get that same level of yay in what is your income producing activity as long as you're finding that joy sort of somewhere.

And what essentially what transpired was again like that nearly a decade of really having a consistent mental fitness practice and seeing that be helpful for my own life, I started to grow really frustrated with the digital options that were available for journaling because I was traveling a lot and I typically would do my type of journaling a

reflection on a phone or on my iPad. And at the time, some of the meditation apps were starting to take off, like Calm and Headspace, and they were picking up steam. So I remember thinking, Okay, it seems like kind of the mainstream audience is starting to be okay or open to being guided digitally, you know, in least meditation in that space. But at that time, there was really nothing that existed for journaling to help start a practice.

And the way I was doing it was again like I'd write a question down and then it started to become so disconnected. I'd write a question down, I'd copy it paste it into another app. I'm like, this is ridiculous. There has to be a way more efficient way to do this right, especially in that at that time, And that's how the idea for Kio arose and I I'll

never forget the email. I wrote an email to my brother in law, who you know, has been a lifelong entrepreneur, so there was a bit of comfort there, I guess you can say, or confidence there, you know, talking to someone that's been in that space before. He also had an IT company, which we laugh about to this day that's nowhere near a developer kind of experience. So at the time I was thinking, oh, yeah, he's got you know, this IT company. He's doing websites and phone systems and

networks and stuff. I mean, surely he's got some experience in this or can help. And anyway, I just sent him an email with the frustrations and saying, Hey, would you like to try building something to see if we can you know, flirt with this idea and he said yes, and so we started doing it and I started mind mapping this app on the side kind of evenings and weekends, until eventually, I remember we went to this conference in Montreal. It was a conference called C two all on Creativity.

Super fun, really awesome experience. And while I was there for the company, I was meeting with people but then also pitching this concept for the app. And my brother in law was there with me, so he was in these meetings. So we were just trying to get a pulse to see like what would people, you know, how would they react to this? And he had a designer on his team for his other work, so you know,

we didn't have a functional app. We essentially had a mock up that was tappable, and as we would leave these meetings, we say it'll be like, okay, Ken, we got this feedback, can you shift this around. We're going to try another one. And we were just essentially iterating the app on the spot, and we got enough validation from those meetings to really cause a pause and think, Okay,

I mean, I think we've got something here. But I knew enough in my own day job that to make that successful, you know, there needed to be a pretty big strategy or plan or some sort of marketing initiative to really get this off the ground, because no one was doing this in journaling at that time, and I know I couldn't do that and my day job at the same time. So eventually it led to me leaving that job in the pharmaceutical world and pursuing Kio full time and.

the dust probably still hasn't settled on that. But it's so interesting that your background in business and brand management is what really helped launch that with experience and with skills and bringing so much to the table to to Like I think at the time, you don't notice or you don't realize necessarily how important those skills are, but so much of what you learn in one context is transferable to anything else that you do. So I'm sure that a huge part of your success.

We're going through all these dep teams. I mean, we're not just going to sit back here and do nothing. So I started working on building relationships and bringing in you know, the right people with their content and obviously you're a part of that, right and getting different perspectives in this space, and so that when we launched the app,

we weren't launching an app to zero people. We already had an audience, and we already had content that wasn't necessarily coming from us, but we had content from all these you know, studying humans that essentially we were linking out to their work if people wanted to continue down that path. So, you know, it seemed to make sense as a as a collaboration strategy. And then I just made sure from a brand perspective that you know, we

were really focus on the language of mental fitness. And the reason for that was simple, people just you know, there was so much talk around mental health, which is unfortunately loaded full of stigma still, right, and mental fitness was really you know that step in, well, I'm taking action just like I do my physical fitness, right, And so it was just like a more of a motivating term, I guess you will, because for me, mental fitness, you know,

everything's under that mental health, mental resiliency, mental performance. So it's not about ignoring any factors, but it just feels more motivating and that you have more zest essentially to you know, take that, take that step forward. So I was just really focusing on that, and then the rest of the team obviously we were doing everything possible to make the app look beautiful and very apple Ish at that time, and it started to get picked up by

Apple all around the world. That's what led to all those app Store impressions.

Like I think that's another thing that I like about using fitness is that it's so associated with your body, and we often don't treat our mind with the same level of care. But I like that that word kind of encompasses that whole concept so nicely well.

like we're getting to that point. And the the image I had in the slide was of People magazine and I think the seventies and it was what's the guy's name, the guy from Baywatch and Jane Fonder or something, and they were going jogging, and the caption was something like,

we're all going jogging. Everyone's doing it now, so like at that time it was jogging and exercise outside is essentially just taking off, right, So the point was we're not you know, that's where mental fitness is right now, and the super more than four years ago, but just to try to show that, hey, now's the time to get on board with this because and I really believe

this to this day. I mean, what motivates us and tells us to go into the gym or run or do the exercise are the decisions that our mind's making. So for me, it all starts there. First.

have so much experience. You studied for it, you have a degree behind you, and like lots of different corporations and businesses that you've worked with to back up. You know, if you ever have feelings of doubt or lack of confidence, you can talk yourself back around by I am experienced. I deserve to be here moving into a totally new industry with a brand new idea where not only have you never done it before, but no one has really done it before, but having to put yourself out there

with pictures and like investing a lot of money. I think most you know, brand new business owners struggle more with self doubt and the mental side of the challenge. Then logistically you can physically figure out how to start a business.

that they were doing to keep their mind healthy. So for me, you know, when you're building the business in that space, it's like that classic you have to practice what you preach. And it was the same thing writing the book, like I had to really rely on the practices because like everyone listening, I'm human as well, and you know, you fall into these comparison modes and in Okay, well that app is ranking over here, they did this,

how come we can't get that funding? You know, like it's easily to slip into those internal dialogue or those looping thoughts. But again, just flipping back to these mental fitness practices about Okay, if I know prioritize my health mental and physical, if I meditate, if I bring in some breath work, or I do some journaling and boost myself awareness. Then I can catch these moments, pause a narrative, release it, or rechannel it, and continue forward.

observe it. I think I used to think I had one level of thinking, but not that then I could have thoughts and value judgments on those thoughts, and that whole idea of metacognition, like what makes us different to any other being in this universe is that humans can think about their own thoughts, which also means that you can stop the ones that are unproductive, which is just like such a big.

I picked up from a meditation teacher, Jeff Warren. He wrote he wrote a book called Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics, which is the greatest title ever and he co authored it with Dan Harris, who's the ABC News anchor in the US. And I remember Jeff telling me about this, this whole idea of you know, when people when you have anxiety come up, or if you feel you know, a depressive state coming up, or whatever, fear, uncertainty, whatever

those things are. You know, he provides labels to those things or names, and it's like, welcome to the party. So anxious Tom just walked into the room. You can come in, we can talk a little bit, but then you're going to have to leave type thing. And it's just like, you know, even with the humor of that, it just lightens the situation, right, And it's not anxious Tom like taking over your life and that you're spinning and looping for days on end, if not weeks or longer. Right,

And then that's when it becomes a problem. But when you can acknowledge it and you're like, okay, thanks, I get it. Obviously there's something here that I have to deal with or process. But now you're gonna have to, you know, grab a no derve and take off.

you forward, so that idea of like failing forwards. And in the very early pages of Personal Socrates, in your intro, you talk about the idea that Kio was like this big jump and this big seizing of the a, and you know, for three years it just kept growing exponentially and felt like everything you were hitting all these goals but then confronted this wall of what you felt what felt like failure, but was actually just the seeds for the next chapter. Because again, like your joy and your

ultimate you know, purpose in life is not static. Three years later, you're a three years different person, so you might have you know, things unravel in chapters. So talk us through that whole idea of hitting these milestones, and.

And you know, when we have these write ups in these brand features and you know, collaborating with like Lego and LinkedIn and Vaynermedia, there's this element of almost like false sense of security that Okay, well, obviously if those brands are behind us, or we're getting all these you know, new apps we love or apps or of the day that you know, we have to succeed here. But where we weren't succeeding was the business model, you know, in

the financials. And I really I don't doubt that we would have figured that out because we were on the track to you know, iterate, continue to iterate the product and whatnot. The difference though, and I think, you know it's not I share that because if we would have

kept going, we probably would have turned it around. But for whatever reason, at that time, personally, I had lost the conviction to continue, you know, it was it was, and that was the hardest thing to accept because somewhere along the way, we had spent you know, a tremendous amount of money and spent a tremendous amount of mental capacity on this project or on this business, and I lost the hope or desire to really push through kind of that messy middle or push through to the other side.

And something just felt like, you know what, this chapter, as you say, or this vehicle into mental fitness, which was an app, doesn't feel right for me anymore. And I knew that I was in the right space, so that gave a slight amount of comfort, But because everything else was exploding while that decision was being made. It was enough to say, okay, you know what, like enough's

enough on this one. We're gonna we're gonna have to shut this down, and I'll just I'll never forget, you know, being I was in a coworking space in Toronto, Canada, and I was looking at that number the Apple dashboard with all the metrics and just thinking, can my next step is going to is delete from app Store? And then that's when all the wrong questions started to circulate, like how could we fail at such a colossal level, and like what would my ex colleagues think? Because I

left the job. That wasn't one of those snares where I dreaded going into work. I mean, it was all you know, more so I didn't I didn't want to regret not trying this, and I just I remember the fate their faces flashing in front of me, because I'll never forget sitting at my desk telling people that you know, I'm leaving in a month essentially, and there was just such joy and excitement and like encouragement and almost the

sense of yeah, I have ideas like that too. I mean, you're so courageous to go and do it, and then now here I am. I'm deleting this business. And the worst part was that my backup plan of returning back to that industry also didn't feel right, because I what felt one hundred percent right was this was this space of mental fitness. But now I just deleted the vehicle that was, you know, keeping me in there, and I have no idea how I'm going to stay here and

what I'm going to do next. We're financially wrecked, We're living in a place that was always supposed to be temporary, so we don't even really like the area that we're in in the house, and we had sold, you know, with this beautiful condo Montreal and sold that, and so

everything just felt wrong and like it was exploding. And there was just this fear in this this massive anxiety that was causing me to feel sick, like physically sick every morning during that period until I eventually could go back to some of the practices and just the micro moments of tapping into the present moment and deploying as much gratitude as possible, even even something as simple as yeah, I deleted the app, but I deleted the app on the laptop that most people don't have access to or

don't have in the world. Like small things like that just pause that narrative long enough to start asking questions again. And then the question that arose was what do I want from my life? And that sent me down a new path essentially, Oh.

If like the method of delivering that purpose changes why, I can be the same your whole life, but the how has to change depending on what your life is doing. And I also think that something that I need to remind myself of always and I try to spend a lot of time on in the show is the way that success and failure is like two sides of the

same coin, is so inextrically related to perception. And so the question I often ask people, is like, when you're talking about success or failure, do you mean actual success or failure or do you mean that people perceive you to have succeeded or failed? And if you knew that you could try something and fail and no one would find out about it, It's like if a tree falls in a wood and no one hears it didn't happen. No,

most people are not scared of failing. They don't think that it would fundamentally change their self worth if they knew no one would ever find out about it, So no one's actually scared of failing. We're all scared of people thinking that were a failure. And then then your fundamental life values come into play. Of like you could have pushed through and found objective success, But what would that have cost you if it was making you so

unhappy every day? So that comes back to that quote that I love of like if it cost to your peace, it's too expensive, Like it doesn't matter how great the successes and heights you could have taken KYO two if you turned it around if you weren't in it every day, Like what is the point of that exercise? And you took control and like volunteered for a really shitty time to kind of break something, to.

to a healthy mind. And then then it just became my full time job was was going to the gym in the morning, meditating, journaling and getting my mind is clear and as intentional as possible to then slowly start taking the steps forward right. And that took time. I mean that took It wasn't a matter of weeks. That

took months. And frankly, I mean I'm still on that journey in many respects, but it feels so different, so different, right, And I think what happens too when you go through those wild moments or those big experiences in life and your work and personally and professionally you can stack those experiences on top of each other, right, and then now it's okay, well I've been through that. I know I

can handle that. So now you have this new sense of confidence that, Okay, well, sure I'll try this whole book journey, or I'll try this, or I'll try that, right, because I've proven to myself that I can get through it, and most importantly, that I have the community of friends and family and people like yourself that will will support right, Like, we're not in this alone and other people have gone

through this and will continue to go through this. But you know, as long as we keep trying right and we're still curious and we're having fun along the way, then I mean, it just mixed life so much more enjoyable.

the Socratic method. I only know about the Socratic method because law school. You know, how did the ideas formulate?

And then how did you choose the questions. It's a beautifully structured book, all around key fundamental, with a different guest or case study or interviewee that encapsulates that idea from your personal life to work to family and relationships, all kind of different areas and everyone from like Jane Austin to Picasso and then Samantha gash Or we all know, Natalie Warner who we all know, Melissa Embrassini who we

all know big members of the neighborhood. And there's also a chapter on yours, trul I just blows my mind. But talk us through the method and the book.

a parent. It comes right back to how my practice started eight or nine years ago, which was listening for questions as I was consuming knowledge, whether that was books, podcast, blogs and magazines, taking those questions and then using them on my own reflection, which translated into kio obviously, and it was the same idea was to share different perspectives and stories to show people that this stuff is accessible to anyone. It's not just you know, for a meditation

instructor or yoga coach or yoga instructor. I mean, anyone can do this stuff. So you know, when the app was shut down, like I said, I knew I was in the right space, and I knew, especially in this case, that if I was able to pause the scenario that was literally driving me into a deep depression with one question that I have to continue in some capacity to expose the concept of using questions for mental fitness. Because we're all asking questions all the time, right, It's just

a matter are we asking the right questions? Are they quality questions? Are they well timed? Right? For me was what do I want for my life? That was the big question, and then that, you know, led to other ones which were, okay, well, if that's what I want, like what does an ideal day look like? Who can help me with that? What projects would make sense? You know,

what does that look like? And you know, our questions evolved because if I were to ask that same question to myself right now, it would serve as a nice check in. But it's not at the same kind of intensity level as pausing a depression essentially or avoiding one. So that's where you know, the realization was made that no matter where we're at in life, no matter what we're doing, we're all one question away from a completely

different path. Right at any point, including the micro moments where you know, we might be triggered or stressed about a conversation or an email that came in, one question around gratitude can completely pause and reshift our mood instantly. So you know, that was the premise behind the concept

of the book. And I, like probably most people listening right now, you know who aren't you know, studying in philosophy or don't have a graduate degree in philosophy, only knew that, Okay, as Socrates, he's the guy that asked questions like that was kind of the baseline of my knowledge.

And I remember I was having a conversation with the now publisher and the founder of that company, Joey from Baron fig explaining essentially what the you know, what my work's always been over the years, and the concept of the book and whatnot or what I was writing about, and he's like, oh, yeah, the Socratic method like the Socratic what Yeah, And of course he has a minor in philosophy and a major in English, so he got it.

But as I started researching and really like digging past the surface of who Socrates was, it became really apparent that this is exactly what's happening, because you know, all the questions that were being left on the podcast and through the app, they're following that Socratic method of asking a big question and then asking follow up clarity seeking

type questions and unpacking things. And the thing that struck me was that here's a guy Socrates literally born in four sixty nine BC, and a method that has I mean, you're exposed to going to law school. I mean it's literally stood the test of time and we're all using in some capacity, but we don't even realize we're doing that.

And I remember coming across these these question types that different scholars and whatnot had studied, and I'm like, well, this is the reason we don't know we're doing this, because who can remember these question types of that I'd have to literally open the book to list all six out for you. So I'm like, there's the problem. So is there a way to take the method that's been around that clearly works. Is there a way to modernize that and make it so accessible to be, you know,

applied to our daily lives. And that's essentially what got me all excited, like, yeah, we absolutely have to use this as the backbone of the book and structure the book in a way of get clear first questions around clarity. Then when you're clear and know where you're heading, you know who you're trying to become or where you want to go, then you can act and think with more

intention and provide questions that can help there. And if you're doing those those first two steps, the third one almost comes by default or you're really set up because then now you're expanding what's possible or opportunities are showing up because you can see right. It's no different than if you open up a door into a room and that the room is jammed floor to ceiling with boxes. You can't see the back of the room or you can't see if there's a window or another door until

you start cleaning up the room. And unfortunate, our minds are like that right, with emotions and relationships and massive amount of decisions. So if we can clean that up which then we allow our minds to do you know, the magic and connect the dots because we have the answers, They're.

And I think that's the biggest kind of change in my life was asking things that didn't really matter to my ultimate joy and then wondering why I was never getting any further. And it's because I had to change the question, not change the answer. It's such a just a beautiful, simple way to actually change the way fundamentally

that you think about things. Are there any like favorite chapters or big takeaway things that like So this is at the time of recording, it hasn't actually officially launched yet, which is so so exciting to get you at the time where you can give a little like reflection on the vulnerability hangover, like how are you feeling about it? But yeah, do you for anyone who's listening, and we will share links to where you can pre purchase it

and purchase it. What are some of the you know, maybe the three biggest kind of aha moments for you in writing it that you think be helpful with other people?

then resonate. So that's why there's so many different profiles and different prompts, so that no matter where you're at in life, something in there should at least peauk your curiosity and it's probably where you should start and the one that you know actually continue on the theme of what you were reflecting on. But like, am I asking

the right questions? The one that sparks for me is James Clear's profile and really getting clear on the person you are trying to become or want to become right, And his opening prompt is something around who am I optimizing to become, which essentially, in other words, you know, translates to are you climbing the right mountain? So, you know, those are those are the type of questions that I've been thinking about as I'm you know, expanding out into

this this mental fitness world. I'm still in the right path. I do believe that, but there's also all these different kind of you know, secondary offshoots off the core path, and I need to be so clear on is that a distraction or is that actually something that's helping me further down the path. So constantly checking in with a question like that helps quite a bit. And then there are other ones, like in the third part of the

book that are around just possibility. Because often we talk about mental fitness, and rightfully so from the perspective of handling tough situations right and processing tough motions and releasing and rechanneling and things like that, But there's this whole other world, these practices that are around priming your mind to be more creative and to think and to use your imagination and to really like set you know, release

any type of limiting beliefs. For example, So I'm thinking of a profile like like Navin Jane and using language around imagine if, right, imagine if and just going down whatever you're working on or whatever you want in your life, imagine if this happened and that happen, and forgetting all the rules. It brings us right back to when we're kids, right, and you just ask questions and you're not thinking about you know, the results of those actions. You're just you're

letting your imagination run free. And as adults, you know, when we do that, it trains our minds to also activate that creativity, right and really just break down and

allow for creative thinking and whatnot. So I've been doing a lot of that as well, and it's just such a fun practice, especially before you go to bed, because if you do that and your journal and let your mind run free, often to what happens is when you're going to sleep, your mind's in that primed, excited state and you go to sleep, you know, thinking or almost visualizing your goals in a way, right, and then you fall asleep and your mind still working on that and

playing out that scene to your movie essentially, and you know, you're just getting closer and closer to you know, whatever you want. And it's different for all of us obviously, but there's almost no downside to doing something like that, right,

So those are a couple that that spark. And then the profile is where I obviously didn't have the opportunity to interview you know, the subjects because they've they've passed or they've Picasso for example, Like that one was really fun because I was going through those practices almost live on the spot while writing it. Like I didn't go

I didn't have this whole color practice laid out. And I'll explain with that is in a minute before writing his profile, it was due doing the research and seeing, wow, I've experienced Picasso's work, but I didn't realize that he had this blue phase to his work where all of his you know, his paintings and whatnot were essentially in that hue, which also linked up to a time in his life that he was depressed, his best friend had committed suicide, and then all of a sudden, his his

work shifted into this rose colored era, which is when he met his wife and you know, like things changed. For example, so the reflection as I was going through that was wow. You know, here's someone that you know, everyone knows about the work and the idea that he's so well known for paintings in all different types of those phases. It wasn't just you know, the famous guitarist

painting in the blue phase. There are all these other different pieces of work that everyone knows about, which means that you know, his his body of work is what's important. It's not just the one phase. So that's where the reflection was. Well, so our lives are the same way, you know, like if I thought back to those early days and sales, like what color would I associate my

life with around that time? And I would say, you know, I was probably in like the reds because I was go, go go, and like aggressive and want to really you know, like you know, prove that I could do this for example, And you know, I just remember I actually went to Picasso Museum while on a on a trip in that industry in Barcelona, and the objective was just to get essentially get through the entire museum and see everything versus you know, two years from now, when I was writing

essentially the first draft, I was able to do a virtual tour of that museum, and it was you know, let's take in one or two of his paintings and really be present with them and just noticing like the evolution of and there's no right or wrong answers, but just noticing where you've come from and where you're heading. And that gives you the pause and the opportunity to course correct if you want it, or write the new chapter which is, you know, something related to Jane Austen's profile.

But it just gives us that opportunity to slow down, come off the autopilot, provide a different perspective from something completely different that we would we wouldn't normally be reading or reflecting on, and give us the opportunity to pick a different path. I said a lot there.

redirect at any time? And I think the best thing about the pandemic, and we would never wish it to have hap it that way, is that the breaking the circuit and getting off autopilot is automatic.

am I? Or what do I want to? Again? Am I climbing the right mountain? Because they you know, they were forced into a pause, and some still like that's what it is, right. It's just like when you have ideas that come up in the shower or on a run. I mean, we're we're stilling our mind. So just the whole world has gone through that in some capacity. But we don't need to wait for another pandemic or situation

like that to inject those moments of stillness. And now that people know that what's possible after you know, going through these practices in a moment like that, I just hope that you know, we stick with them.

don't get me wrong. Obviously, I'd love for as many people to pick it up, because I really do believe in the work, and I've seen questions save lives and upgrade lives, so I mean that's the ultimate goal. But my personal goal is to go into this whole launch as clear as possible, because I'm already starting to see little opportunities here and there and kind of going full

circle to what I had mentioned earlier. But I want to make sure that the right ones are the ones that I grab onto and that they can help fuel

kind of my overall mission. And I can only do that if I'm not fogged by a million different you know, launch activities and you know, get stuck in checking Amazon, you know, listings and rankings and things like that, Like, that's interesting, it's exciting obviously, I mean, as we speak right now, the book is in a couple of the top one hundred lists, but I know from the Kyo days it doesn't matter. That's I don't want to fall

through the hype. Now, I'll take that and we can leverage that, but that the core thing is doing things like this and like really connecting and hopefully that there's one question, one story, or one practice for someone on the other side listening to this that can completely change their life, Like that's the ultimate goal.

the things that bring you joy outside of work. Just getting that complete distance that you need to keep creative energy and get fresh ideas. I think it's so difficult when your job is something that is related to everyday life because there's no clear barrier between like being a doctor and then going home and not being a doctor. You know, it's like mental fitness applies to everything, so the ideas and stimulation anywhere that you are. It's hard

to kind of quarantine yourself. It's such a bad choice of word this year, but quarantining your life into little sections.

profile because I'm using I'm no, I'm using. I'm using one of your concepts around just work hygiene, which you know translates into just personal hygiene, and uh, I should call it wellness hygiene for example, that that helps me through all this and is just identifying the things in my life that I know will put a smile on my face and making sure that those activities, those conversations are injected into the week so it's not just a weekend thing, or it's not just you know, a vacation

at the end of the month type thing. So perfect example. So my little guy Caleb, now he's he's actually five now, so it's great. Yeah, so year old, Oh my god. In the intro, he was one one and a half when all of the essentially the app stuff had started, so you're you're not mistaken on that. So he's been through this journey as well. So I mean a perfect

example is, like we're recording this. We started essentially at six pm my time, so kind of it's been a full day first and just to you know, be able to show up with energy and make sure that I'm present for you, I took thirty minutes before and we played Lego down downstairs. You know, we just built together and had fun and stuff like that, which just gave me a whole new you know, zest and round of

energy to come and have this discussion. So like just doing things like that, and it's different for everyone, So just figuring out what works. Maybe it's taking a walk or playing with your dog or whatever it is, but injecting those moments in your in your those micro moments I should say, of play and excitement. It goes so far, so far, This stuff doesn't have to be complicated, Sarah, Like, we don't need to wait for a seven day silent retreat to like completely reset. You know, those are great.

We could do those things for sure, and I encourage them, But there's also the daily you know, the daily practices and whatnot to really help.

with being present. And when you're present and curious, I mean everyone feels that you know and you you feel it, you learn, you know, you expand what's possible. It fires up your imagination and the people on the other side can can also feel that. So yeah, that's something that comes up all the time for me.

career changes, marriage, adoption, or anything in between. So just DM or email me your questions over the next week and I will get ange to ask me them in the episode which is coming your way. I hope you're all pleasing your ya