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But if your end result oriented, you will get there and you just keep on chipping away. That's honestly my secret source. Having that empathy and understanding their position and understanding where they're coming from. That then allows you to then go okay. These are the reasons why they feel like they need to say no. I'm going to reduce those barriers and then allow them to say yes because they want to say yes.
Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives.
They adore, the.
Good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu entrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found Match a Maiden and Match Milk Bark Cza is a series of conversations on finding a life you love, and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.
If you've been listening along for a while, you'll probably know me well enough to notice when I get totally carried away in someone's story and suddenly we're fifty minutes in and I'm still on their way to you. It's generally because our guest has such a densely interesting story that we could do a whole podcast on every theme that we talk about, which I definitely felt for today's fabulous guest, and even still, I feel like there are so many things I could have asked but didn't get to.
Despite hilariously never having met in person, Kim van Hauster has become my work wife in law since Nick joined the founding team of her incredible clean beauty startup, Bloom Effects, and she's also become someone I admire immensely. I posted a video recently sharing some of the headlines of her story and loved fleshing out all of the chapters in between.
Kim is such a great reminder of one of our favorite themes here that life doesn't always work out how you planned, but it often works out better, and that finding your dream life takes lots of patience, trust, and chipping away from ten different primary schools and even more random jobs earlier in her career, including as a mattress saleswoman.
Pure grit and hard work led Kim from Frankston to become a hugely successful corporate in New York City, becoming head of marketing for personal healthcare giant p Z Cousins. Kim was also the brains behind the incredible growth of world renowned brand Or now world renowned thanks to Kim Saint Trope, responsible for doubling the space it took up on the floors at Alta and winning Brand of the
Year in twenty seventeen for all intents and purposes. Living a sex in the city as dream life so early in her thirties, and yet she walked away from it all when she met a Dutch tulip farmer on the dance floor in Ibetha and moved to Amsterdam to start a family. I thought I already knew all the details of Kim then ventured into entrepreneurship by founding Bloom Effects,
but I didn't actually know the half of it. This episode felt like reading a captivating novel while also teaching me so much about the tulip farming industry, business in Australia versus the US, versus the Netherlands, the many uses for sawdust. You know, I love diving into a niche community, but also squeezing in lesser disgusted but equal important themes like divorce, miscarriage, refinding your identity and creating change in a patriarchal industry. Kim is endlessly interesting and I hope
you enjoy this one as much as I did. Kim. Welcome to Ceza.
Thank you so much, Sarah, so glad to be here.
It is so lovely to see your face, and even more amazing that we're doing this between Australia and the Netherlands. Technology is amazing.
Ten thirty am for me, and what time is it for you in Melbourne?
Six thirty pm here, so basically my bedtime as a grammar I know, so weird. That's the future. Well, I'd love to have some exciting news for you, but we're in lockdown, so the future is not that interesting. I'm so excited to have you here today. As you know, we kick off every episode by asking what the most down to earth thing is about you to break through that surface level identity that's often quite glossy see through
the media or social media. And with all the amazing titles you've had and accolades to your name, as well as being a big TV star from House Hunters, what is something relatable about you break the ice.
I think it's my family. I am such a slob. I go into kid mode as soon as I grew up in the morning to Peninsula and when I'm home, all I do is get into my PJS. I don't leave my PJS. I sit on the couch and I just expect to be fed and I want far and all the delicious Vietnamese food that my mum cooks twenty four to seven.
Oh, that's so low. This is my Mum's are the best, right. I feel like you never actually grow up. Every time you see them again, it's like, just treat me like a child. Look up.
Exactly. Which is tough because I'm on the other side of the world and it's really hard to get in Australia right now. I don't know if you've heard.
I think I might have heard a thing or two about that. And we can't get out of Australia either. As you guys will hear Nick and Kim have been working together for how long has it been? Now like two years?
I think it just over two years. Yeah, we're coming up to two years of Bloom Effects, but Nick was one of the founding members. So yeah, it's been a journey.
And almost that whole time now, we've been trying to see each other, or you and I have been trying to meet each other in person, and we're still waiting.
And the crazy thing is is I feel like I know you, but we've actually never met in real life.
Oh my god, I know it's so crazy, but we're like best friends. And I feel like I hear you on the phone on the other end of the phone to Nick more than I hear any other voice. And I know your daughter and I've seen her pooh and vomit, and we know everything about each other exactly.
And Ange and Nick are so much a part of my life and your life. So yeah, one be happy family across the world.
I know, isn't that. So that's one of the things I think about all the time that even though it's been I've been wearing like our sixth lockdown, it's been a really tough time but if all the things to be grateful for, it's that if there was always going to be a pandemic and we were always going to have to experience lockdown, imagine trying to do this before the Internet. Like, I just can't fathom the fact that we can actually see faces and see our families. You know, it's just bananas.
Keeps me saying I wouldn't be able to run my business and do my job and see my family. It's been pretty incredible that, you know, we've transitioned to zoom and calls, but I'm not zoom ready ever.
This is a special occasion. We put makeup on for each other. I'm like, oh, we're both looking quite nice.
Exactly, I've got a dewy glow, especially glow.
Oh my gosh, that dewey glow. Speaking of bloom Effects, the first section is your way toa where we go through all of the chapters that came before that to help you get here, because I think often people walk into your life at the bloom Effects chapter and think that it all makes sense that you were going to end up as a beauty founder and CEO, and that you always knew you were going to get there. But there are so many dart points along the way that
don't make sense, and so many times I'm sure. I mean, you've moved roles, so many times, you've moved countries, and I love going through all of those to trace through the decisions and remind everyone that it's you know, the path to joy is not linear. So take us all the way back to very young Kim, what were you like as a kid growing up in Melbourne with a Vietnamese family. I believe there's even a shop named after your Vietnamese name in Richmond.
Se Richmond or Victoria Street. Kim Hun. Yeah, so Kim's actually my I guess my middle name, and Han is my first name, but we switch depending on what language we're speaking. So me, as a kid, I was actually really shy and I didn't speak until I was full.
Really.
Yeah, anyone that knows me now knows that I'm a chatterbox, and it's certainly made up for it.
But I was going to.
And I'm certainly an I would describe myself as an extrovert now. But yeah, as a kid, I was really quiet and shy and stuck to my mum like glue and didn't speak at all. Mum actually thought that I was maybe deaf or had a speech disorder or something like that. So it was just you know, confused with the languages, and yeah, I just kind of was a slow developer. Yes, And I wasn't that good at school either.
You know, I tried my best, but for and the stereotypical Asian family would would say, you know, eat pluses all the way, and I was like an average student. I think I was a B plus student. As I went through high school, I realized that if I tried really hard and I applied myself, I would get further. So I you know, I did try to get the distinctions and the high distinctions, but it was a lot
of effort. Didn't come naturally to me, and I was I realized that I was slightly dyslexic as well, so you know, there was all these things kind of thrown at me, but I strived through it. And the reason why I think I did was because I always knew that I wanted to own my own business and make my mark as a business woman. That was super important to me. It was kind of grilled into me at a very young stage that Kim, you needn't rely on
anyone else. You've been given the opportunity to free education, free healthcare, you know, a roof over your head, kneel on the table every night, and those things. Don't take them for granted because not everyone in the world has those opportunities, and really strive to do what you can and make the most out of, you know, the opportunities you've been given. My mum was a refugee from Vietnam as a lot of buzzie Vietnamese h and you know,
she wasn't given those opportunities. So I think it's important that I was able to rise to the occasion and make the most of everything that she worked so hard to pro And yeah, so I think that grit was really what took me through high school and university. But again, coming out of university, I didn't have the best grades. I was like a credit or a distinction, but not a high distinction, not like the typical kids that get
into those grad programs. And I think there's one or two at Laurel and one or two at am Z going up in Melbourne, and I didn't get any of those. So I thought, what am I good at? And at the time I knew that I was good at selling because I was, you know, a promotional guest at this like a nightclub called Century twenty one.
That's how you just got with your selling skills.
Yeah. And then Voodoo Lounge, which is across the street in Frankston.
I was the Preston girl. Oh my gosh, amazing.
I went to Priston High and then I worked at Davies as well, and I worked at Rugantino's, which was the low called pizza restaurant. And then I would change at the back room and then run over to the jewelry store and work at Bebl's Jewelers. And then I changed in the back room there, and then I ran over to the Good Guys and I was in the plasma screens section.
Oh my god, so random.
Yeah. So I had the gift of the gap and I knew that I could sell. So I thought, Okay, well, if I can't get the like Cadet ships that everyone else is getting because of the high grades, I'm going to I'm going to get a role where I can sell. And so I ended up selling the least sexiest product on Earth, seally posturepedic mattresses. That was my first job yeahstupedic sales, and I managed forty winks and Captain's news accounts and my job was to go into stores and talk about foam and springs.
Wow, oh my gosh. See even to this point, and this is like top point one of one hundred in your career that is still, you know, in its early years. It's it's crazy to think that hearing about everything that's happened since then, people would assume that you had a
really easy time at school. They would assume that you were really high achiever academically, and they you know, it's so easy to make assumptions about the journey that people have had and then to be discouraged because you think, oh, I'm not as smart as her, or I don't have the academic grades, or I don't have this, or I don't have that. And so this is the bit that
I love. It's breaking down that you did have ten random jobs that were your part time jobs before you got your full time job, and then your first full time job was like totally random and in mattresses before beauty was even on the horizon. And the way that you discovered your gift for selling was nightclubs, Like I think it's just the randomness of the way that things come together gets lost in a lot of storytelling. But
actually that's the way that it becomes beautiful. That's the way that people figure out who they are is all the random bits exactly.
And I think you have to really dig deep as well and realize that your single minded path, or for me, a single minded journey in terms of my career, everything would to that add color, add texture, at experience and at those moments where you're standing there in a forty wings going why am I selling springs and mattresses, you remind yourself, I'm learning life long skills at this point that I can use and learn from and grow from.
And I and honestly, right now, if I think back to, you know, those moments and I'm talking to either Bloomingdale's or SAS and it's a really prestigious department store, and you know, someone might be saying, Okay, we're having a really difficult month because of COVID or you know, foot traffic's not what it should be and I can't get people, you know, trying the products. I just think back to, well, if I can sell springs and mattresses and phone in
a forty wings we can sell this product. We can really you know, there's the features and the benefits and the whole story behind it. If we can make mattresses sexy, we can make products sexy, our products sexy. And it just rounds you, it just humbles you. So I still those skills as a sales rep to this day.
That's amazing. And also I think it's particularly I mean in all situations, but especially in certain immigrant background families where security of job and academics are really highly valued. It's I can imagine, really difficult when your particular kind of intellect isn't the one that's coveted by everyone. Like if you're not super super academic, it could be really easy for people to think they're not smart at all,
just because they don't get really good grades. But the ability to sell, the ability to negotiate, the ability to run a business, which you've obviously become brilliant at, it uses a totally different kind of the brain that sometimes I feel so many children out there in their journeys it's not I mean, I'm excited that it's getting more appreciated, but there's not only one type of intelligence. And I think it's taken me a really long time to understand that.
Yeah, I completely agree. I actually watched a Ted talk once about grit and it really resonated with me, and I realized that that's what has taken me through my career and my journey and actually, like life obstacles as well, being single minded in your success or whatever that vision is.
And I wasn't the kid that had the vision board, but I had a mental pinterest in my mind of what my life was going to be and I've always drived to it, and every kind of pivot or set back, I would remind myself, well, this is the ultimate goal and this is the picture of success for me, and how can I use this experience to get me further along the track? And I think that has made me more successful. It's the stamina and grit. It's not the intelligence,
it's not who you know. It's not being academically successful. It's really sticking at something and just chipping away in it. And it's grueling. But a lot of people, like I know, super intelligent people, but they give our pathway through and they never get to the end result. And it's like, well they're so smart or they've got ducts of the U year or you know, they've finished top of their class, but they didn't have the grit and the stamina to just chip chip, chip away. And I think that's what
I'm good at. And I've only realized that that's called grit. So I guess maybe I'm gritty and that's what's been my secret source to success.
Oh that's amazing. And I think like more labels. I mean not in all cases do I support labeling things, But I think labeling a kind of intelligence like that is so good because for other people listening who have never understood their kind of intelligence to be able to identify and relate and go, yes, I'm gritty. That's my form of strength. You know, it helps other people identify what their strengths are that might not look the same as someone else's. So where did you go then? From
the mattresses and that chapter of your life? Which is so cool?
Always funnily enough, I know it sounds cliche. I always wanted to work in beauty. I struggled with really severe eggs more all my life, and I felt that I always was spoken to as a patient. And they call it the white coat endorsement. When you buy products in a pharmacy, and anything that comes in a white bottle is perceived to be like dermatologically tested or approved by doctors and therefore more medicinal. And because you have like eggmodrm titis riis whatever. For me, it's eggma. You get
spoken to it by brands as a patient. And I just wanted to be spoken to as a human being. And I just wanted to feel like, you know, a beautiful female. I didn't want to feel sick because I wasn't sick. I'm not sick. I just have this condition that I have to live with and maintain and stay on top of. And so for me, it was always like, one day, I'm going to have my own brand. And
I truly, even at fourteen, wanted that. My mum worked in the GD three section of g or Counter and she had amazing makeup regimens, she had amazing skincare regimens. She sold mary Kay, she did avon like. So I grew up just loving and appreciating find like makeup and cosmetics, but I couldn't use a lot of them because of my skin condition. And she would always say, oh, be careful with that. I don't you know you might come
out in a rash. So growing up. I then went into pharmaceuticals and again like focused on what I do best selling. I worked at Chadston Shopping Center, actually at in center Management, and I was the retail coordinator there. Yes, and then I worked at Park More Shopping Center. I've been around I've been around Melbourne for those Melbourne listeners. Yeah, and then yeah. I eventually got into pharmaceuticals where I
felt like this is my calling. I love brand management and I worked on an old fashion brand called Alpha Kerri and it spoke to EGGZMA sufferers. And then from there I was like, Okay, I really want to take my career to the next level. And so myself and my ex we actually decided to move to New York for career purposes. And once we got to New York, I was like, this is my moment. I've watched Gossip Girl, I've watched Sex in the City, this is real life for me.
I'm ready, I'm going to.
Make this happen. So I don't know what character that I wanted to assimilate, and I think it was a combination of all of them, all of the above, but I certainly did go to the boom boom room. First thing, first thing I did when I went to New York.
Absolutely, I mean it'd be rude not to. That's the first thing.
Lead. Yeah, And then once I settled down and realized, hey, I need to focus on my career, I got a job at this place called TPR Holdings, And at that moment that's where I really thought, Okay, this is my moment to shine. I came into the company using my pharmaceutical background, and I said, Okay, I can manage the oral care division. But I knew that they had a portfolio of skin care and color cosmetic brands that I wanted to get into. They were like, Kim, you're an Australian.
You haven't got any American experience, you don't know the American marketplace, and you haven't got an Ivy League degree. So again, there were all these challenges and barriers and I didn't fit in. I was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. But for me, I just negotiated. I said to the owner of the business, Hey,
give me six months. I'm going to cut my salary down to twenty five percent of what I was earning, showed him my latest pace slip from Australia and that's not even I mean, obviously the Aussie dollar to the US ella, taking into the foreign exchange difference, I was still cutting down to twenty five percent of my salary. Showed him my payslip to prove it, and I said, I will be the most junior person on your team. I'll work for this amount and give me six months
and I'll be running the whole marketing division. And then lo and behold. Six months. Yeahs later I went from like marketing associate or marketing coordinator or something like that, and then six months later I was senior global senior marketing director running all divisions and marketing and product development
for him. So it was a pretty amazing opportunity. And it was a little bit faker to you make it like I was negotiating hard in that room, and I'm very much about earning my stripes, but Americans a little bit different in the way they work and culturally you have to come in with confidence, you have to negotiate, and I did that, and so I felt like it
was an episode of Shark TENK. I don't know if you watch that show, but I felt like I was pitching for my life in that room, but he gave me a shot, and I'm really grateful because I learned how to run a business. That company was in the business of flipping businesses. So just like you flip apartments, so you buy a rundown apartment, like fix it up and then put it on the market again and sell
it and they make a profit. That's exactly what they did, but with brands, and so it was a revolving door of all of these distress brands where and my role was to sprinkle like marketing faery dust on them, basically turn them around in six months and then get them back to sellable condition. And it meant that it was high pressure, but I was working across all different categories and it was a grueling experience. But I learned there how to be extra gritty within the beauty industry. I
built my Rollerdex up. There was a lot of respect for me because I was working so hard and got a lot of results. So I think there was that was my university into the beauty industry. And then I moved into a corporate role at Santrapez. So I know you like a good tan and I was familiar with the brand actually because my dad in Australia worked for the company for a very long time, and nepotism aside,
he actually put me up for the role. He's like, oh, I know someone in New York that can run their American division and work through the processes and got the job. So thanks Dad, who actually still works in Bloom Effects by the way. So yeah, we've been colleagues for a long time now, which is really strange.
So good.
I mean, Nick loves my dad.
They're besties. Like literally half the time. I'm like, get off the freaking phone. He's like, it's John.
Okay.
I'm like, oh, okay, fine, sorry, I forgot your bromance over there.
You know, they talk about buddings most of the time, and retaining walls.
All the time. All the retaining walls particularly like that. It's a really hot topic right now, structural stability. It's just alarming. It's never about their actual work together. It's always about something different. But you know, like something I love about you and I already knew this, but this has really highlighted it is that you said it was a really great opportunity and that your boss at the first job really took a chance on you, but you
created that opportunity. A lot of people would have taken, you know, the barriers as a no and either self selected themselves out of that before even applying, or just not suggested a way around it. Like I think there's something to be said. And this is why you and Nick I think work really well together is you both think very laterally. You don't look at a problem, see that two obvious solutions and go, oh, well they don't work, so that's a no. You'll create like eight more solutions
that just look a little bit different. So I don't think anyone would have even thought to offer a reduced salary because you were happy with that exchange. And I often think people like don't take into account that if you're happy with that exchange and financial exchanges, like the value financially is not the only thing you got out of that job. You were willing to trade your time for what you would get out of it. And if
you'd never suggested that, he couldn't have said yes. So I love that reminder that just throw things out there because people might say yes, and it could be the thing that launches you into a senior position six months later that you never could have you know, created, unless you'd asked. So I think that's amazing.
Exactly, and I think there's a lot to be said about like that. If there's a will, there's a way. And I know it's an old fashioned saying, but truly, and that's why Nick and I are generally on the same page for ninety nine percent of the things that we discuss. In the one percent would be digital and I don't understand that world because it's a title. It's a totally different language. But in all honesty, I think earning your stripes and being humble enough to kind of go, okay,
I realize I'm not the perfect candidate. I realize that there are some things that I need to I'm an unpolished diamond, so to speak, a rough diamond, and so, you know, putting yourself in a position where it just is easy for people to say yes, that is the skill. And really, I think it's about empathy. It's really about putting yourself in the other person's position and going, why are they saying no? They're not just saying no because there are wholes and they want to make you like.
Struggle all the time.
I'm not Honestly, I truly believe that people are good, and people are optimistic, and people are glass huffull. So people don't like saying no. It's harder to say no than it is to say yes. But it's our jobs to make them feel like it's easier to say yes. And then I'm having that empathy and understanding their position
and understanding where they're coming from. That then allows you to then go, Okay, these are the reasons why they feel like they need to say no. I'm going to like reduce those barriers and then allow them to say yes because they want to say yes.
Isn't that crazy?
That's how I've always kind of gone through life because I want to yes.
But that's so clever, because do you know so many people, when they ask a question or they pitch something to you, they don't actually think about making it appealing to you, Like they don't think about maximizing the appeal of the proposition. And it's so weird because it's like, don't you think the other person's ease of saying yes would be the first thing you would think about when you pitch an idea? But I think a lot of people don't make that connection.
They just go, these are the reasons why I want this job. This is why I think I'm the best candidate. They don't even look at the criteria the other person is put forward and try to match that up. But I think why you get yeses all the time is because you only develop your pitch based on what the other person wants and what they're able to say yes to, which means you get a yes more than most people. It's like math, just do the math exactly.
I love Eddie Murphy and I think it was raw delirious, but he's like, what have you done for me lately? In one of the skits, and it's really true. Every single person out there kind of innately feels like that. So if you can connect with them and go, well, this is what I've done for you lately, you'll get a yes. So that with that, With that said.
I got the yes.
Yeah. I got a lot of yes's with TPR and then then moved over to sentrepe and that's where I kind of learned the corporate life in an American sense, and again improve my Rolodex and then focused really on my career. But can I just be honest my personal life was going down the drain, I was going through a tough divorce, and then I found myself in my early thirties going, Okay, do I just pack up and move back home to Melbourne. I'm here by myself. I had a lot of buzzy friends. There are so many
Australians in New York. For anyone that's listening that wants to move to New York, do it. It's really easy. Maybe not right now with the with the flights, but it is really easy to get to get a visa. So I rang my parents and I'm like, what do I do? Do I pack up? Do I come back home? And to me, it was almost like at that moment, failure accepting failure if I moved back home, not because like
Melbourne wasn't New York or anything like that. Melbourne is home for me and it always will be, and that's where my family and my friends from high school are. But for me personally, I was like, I moved to New York for my career. I'm going to make this happen and I need to see it through. And just because my personal life had kind of fallen through the cracks, I wasn't going to give up, and you know, I really focused on my career and I got Brand of
the Year at ALTA. I tripled the budget number, everyone got delivered bonuses. It was a really I was number one as far a number one at Alta. It was a really good time to be in that company, and I was really able to thrive because they invested so much in me and just put so much trust in me. But then I just got tired and I had that Charlotte Sex and the City moment where she goes. I obviously watched a lot of TV, so actually, can I
I'm like, you can? I rewind that question at the start when you said.
What if your life is just based on which character that's in the city resonates with you the most of a particular time in your life?
Yea, that's the answer.
I think that's a great way to make decisions in life.
Okay, So I'm now Charlotte and I'm like, where is he?
Great?
Where is he? Already? I'm tired of dating because I tried the Tinder and the Bumble and like Hinge and every other app, and New York's really tough, really really really tough. So I went to Europe as Australians do. I didn't do a Kentiqui tour. I was too old for that. But it was four other cliche right, four other Aussi's and we just did a trip around Europe. It's funny because now I live in Europe and doing
Europe isn't a thing. Like Europeans just go to one place and they relax and they settle down for two or three weeks and they enjoy the sun and they enjoy their vacation. No Australians have to do all of Europe in two and a half weeks and spent two days in every city.
And then you've done Europe. Yeah. Absolutely, it's because we've flown like eighty five hours to get there. It's like I am going to tick off all the countries, all of them, and just get one photo like at each main tourist attraction, just to prove that you were there.
It was there because Instagram says I was there, So I was there.
Yeah, yeah, it's so good.
So I did Europe with my girlfriends and the very last night, at the very last destination. And you'll appreciate this. I hadn't actually made out with anyone or met anyone It was a single girl's trip and it was five weeks and we're walking into Pasha and the girls are chanting Pasha, shot.
A bea r Pasha.
Yep, so we're classy. We're classy chicks, so clol. I get to the D floor and yeah, I actually met a guy and made out with him that there was a Pasha Pasha, you passed it. That was the start. I have bloom effects.
This is a good I love that this love story started at like Pasha, of all the nightclubs, of all the places. It was in Abitha on a girl's trip. This is the best news.
Well it could Voodoo Lounge.
I'm so glad it wasn't, But you know, it's so interesting like that also brings to mind, you know, the whole idea of you know, good things fall apart, so better things can fall together. Like you didn't know at that time when you felt like your personal life in your thirties was going down the drain and you've got to start from scratch again. But this beautiful love story
was waiting for you around the corner. And there are also big chapters of your life where your personal life is your priority, and then your career becomes your priority for a little while, and that is okay for the whatever balance looks like for you to change. I think people don't. They think they need to stick to one
formula all of the time. And it's like, actually, in different periods of your life when you're an expat, like you have such different priorities to what you have when you're at home and when you're in lockdown, and you have totally different priorities to when you're out of lockdown, Like,
it's okay for the rules to look really different. So I think it's amazing that you let yourself have a period where it was just about work and building your career, and then when you were least expecting it, like, it came back to a time for you to make decisions about personal life and family. And it's okay for like your life to go in cycles and for things to change. I think that's, yeah, such a good lesson from listening to your story that I think about all the time.
Definitely, And there's no one that can tell you what the balance should be either. I just wanted to add to that because you know, parents, family, friends back home all concerned and no one knows what's right for you apart from yourself. So you just got to listen to yourself, and you've got to be really true to yourself. And I was okay with throwing myself into work, and I know that balance wasn't great then, but I was able to achieve a lot in a short amount of time.
And I think that if I was too focused on finding the next husband or finding the right guy, or you know, missed a second time right, then it would have been too stressful. It would have been too stressful. And I was more confident in myself because I'd felt that I'd achieved these accolades. I was with my friends, I was on vacation, and yeah, locked eyes with a Dutch tool farmer and he couldn't resist.
This is so crazy. And a Melbourne girl from Melbourne who moved to New York who was working in New York was in a Betha where also a tulip farmer from Amsterdam was there. Like what other? This is like? Fate clearly wanted to bring you two together.
Well, you're elevating me there. You called me Melbourne girl. Really it's a Frankston girl.
Oh well, I love that you started off with Morning to Peninsula girl. I was like, okay, okay, I was gonna say Franger girl, but whatever my parents.
My parents got passion. They moved to Analyza when I moved out, so they do live on the Morning to Pininsula now. But I get up in Frankston.
You can It's been a good story. This is why you're good at marketing. But before we get to this beautiful new chapter of your life, I think one of the things that comes up often in stories like yours and mind where there's been like some big pivot or some big change in life and career structure is that often you hit a point where what your life looks like is you have everything you've ever dreamed of, You've got the dream job, you've got all these accolades, you've
proven yourself professionally, and yet something is missing. And it's like for grateful people who have always been brought up to be grateful for the things around you, creates this weird cognitive dissonance of like, why do I feel like
this is enough? This is what everyone would kill for, Like, these opportunities are amazing, but inevitably, when you are like when you are ready for some kind of big change, your body and your mind starts to agitate for that and you start to feel like but then it's really hard to act on that because you've hit those accolades and you have been very humble in relation to the is about Saint Trope like you have done. I'll put them in the intro, the actual stats, but they are
so impressive. What you were able to achieve is this huge corporate big wig. But then to walk away from such a huge career, you know, head of marketing at psed Cousins is like the ultimate goals and I think people can't understand often, like why did you walk away from that all? So how did that whole shift of like hitting a goal you thought you had to then this big life shift to starting your own business, which actually, it turns out was the goal when you were younger,
Like how did it all come together? You know what I mean? Like all the pieces are starting to connect. Yeah.
I honestly quit my job, packed up my studio apartment in Manhattan, said goodbye to my friends, said goodbye to my career, thinking I'm not ever going to work in beauty ever again. I was prepared to give it all up, and I was prepared to give it all up because I was marrying or going to we're talking about marriage, you know. This was the first step to that. I was giving all of that up because hein couldn't leave
and I knew that. On the first date, He's like, I'm a tulip farmer, and tulips grow in the Netherlands. Ninety percent of the world's production grow in the Netherlands, and it's the perfect climate for tulips and the fourth generation and the company is called h M Vernhusta. My initials are HM van Hasta. I'm the eldest son of the fourth generation, like he was born into this role. And on the very first day, I think I appreciated
how blunt and honest. And if you know any Dutch people, they're the most blunt people on earth.
They don't beat around the bush, not sure.
No finesse is not their forte. So Hie was really blunt, like these these are the things that I see are a challenge in us kind of and this was on the first date. Mind you. He was like, I'm a toolip farmer. I'm not gonna move. It doesn't matter how like serious we get. I'm not moving. These are my responsibility and that's it. And I was like, okay, well I want kids.
First date, so I'm going to come with you and let where was this still an abethera you guys still?
So we were backtrack a little. We were kind of modern day pen pals. And because I was working so many hours and he was on the farm and he's pretty much related to everyone that works at his company. There's no distractions in the tool fields once a wife sidebar. But Farmer Wants a Wife is actually a Dutch show and Australians see and it's a real thing because they
all work with their families. And so if you're a single Aussie listening and you want to meet a guy, come over to the Netherlands and meet a farmer.
No, go to Pasha. First meet one there and then start a business based on whatever he farms exactly.
So I yeah, I just said to him, I want kids. That was that was what I always stuck to and it was really important for me to start a family. You know, I have such a great relationship with my mom and my dream was to have a daughter. So yes, I mentioned before the career journey and be single minded about my career and be you know, an entrepreneur or female business owner one day. That was always like the career goal, but the personal goal was I want a daughter.
A son, Yeah, I would settle for but I really I really want a daughter.
Oh my god, thank god. If it was a girl, I know.
I found it as soon as I go. But I wanted to replicate the relationship that I have with my mom. I wanted to be able to, yeah, be in my mom's shoes, and she's been such a great pillar of strength for me, and she's been through so much hardship in her life. That's another conversation, but yeah, I just really respect everything that she's given up for me and to be able to achieve what I've achieved because of her all her sacrifices. That's the only way that I
can put it. Yeah, I was honest about that. He was honest about the farm, and I'm like, so if I move, then baby and farm. Right, So that was it?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, how That's why it was so easy for me to make the decision, because I felt like I had achieved everything I needed to achieve in my career and I knew that I would work out something in the Netherlands. I got here though, and I didn't realize that Beneluxe is like a region, so Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands, and you have to speak French, Dutch and English at business level. And I know you speak like one hundred languages, but for us normal.
Folks not at business level though, I speak like sex and the city level. You know, like.
You can order French food in a fancy lester.
I know how to like, yeah, pick snacks. That's my main priority.
But for me that was never going to be. Like Dutch is the hardest language to learn. I've been here for four years and I'm learning like the word for cow and the word for tree through Eva, so it's very exactly yeah. And so when I got here, I thought, shoot, okay, I'm never going to learn the languages, but I can do something. So I started consulting and I actually was
like Tinder for businesses. So say you guys had a brand and it was the Nick and Sarah brand, and it was doing really well in Australia and you're like, Kim, I want to crack the United States. It's a great skincare range. The Nick and Sarah brand is doing so well, but I don't know anyone in the US. I would essentially be the Tinder platform and introduce you to the brokers or the retail guys anywhere that you would want to get distribution, because I had the rollerdex from all
my previous jobs. But about a year and a half into that, I realized, why am I matchmaking for all of these other brands? I want to do it?
I use it for yourself.
Exactly, exactly, no offense to the Nick and Sarah brand.
Okay, seriously, though, if you had existed when we first started matchimating, and when it's the US have happened a lot faster, you were exactly the conduit that so many people need to do cross border business. It is ridiculously overwhelming.
But I'm so glad that you ended up realizing it wasn't for you, because again, you know what's really hard is when you're good at something, I feel like there's a bit of an obligation to keep doing it, because it's like, oh, I have this skill, I should use it. But you're allowed to choose to do something else instead. And I'm so glad that you did, because look at what.
Happened exactly so you know, Blome effects really bloomed out of necessity because I was like, I'm bored here. I didn't speak the language, had no friends. Baby making was taking longer than expected. It's not as easy for some people. So yeah, that was challenging and I was stressed. And Hien was like, I think we're focusing too much on baby making. Why don't you do something that takes your mind off it. And you love work so much, try
to find something that inspires you. And we were in the tool of fields and I know this sounds like a bit of a storybook, but we're like hand picking the toolips from his fields. We get them home, ranging them in the VARs. And first of all, I'm like, he and I suck at arranging flowers. Why can I like, I can't do this. They always move, they always change, And he said, Kim, they actually grow, That's why they're
moving and changing. And I'm like what he said, Yeah, tulips are one of the only flowers that continue to grow once they're cut. And that is when I had the light bulb moment. I'm like, the secret sauce is just that say it against at a game. And so when I realized that the tulips grow after being cut from their plant. And you think of a rose, or you think of a cama mil or you think of ecinasia, they just wither and die in a vase. No, tulips
continue to grow and they get longer. That's why they tend to flop over, which is why I thought I was sucking it arranging. And that was that was AHA moment because I know so many people that have that experience. I don't know if you've ever had a bunch of mixed flowers that included tulips. You have like the hydrangers. After two or three days, everything's still stay static and then the tools like poking out exactly because they're the
ones that continue to grow. And I first then my giddy brain went off and I was like, hein what is it? What are the compounds? What will that do for the skin? Is that going to promote collagen? Like? I want to identify the compounds. And we went on this whole kind of literature journey. We got government grants. When I say we, heindd because I don't speak Dutch.
He applied for all these government grants then help farmers, and he did a lot to kind of get the research and the foundation of bloom Effects, and even then we didn't know it was called bloom Effects. We just wanted to unearth the power of the tool because initially it would have helped heinz business. It was like his family business, and we just needed to discovers what is this plant that we've been growing for centuries. Yeah, so
we discovered it. We worked with the University of Leiden and that was really the backbone and the inspiration behind the whole Lumpegs brand because it's in everything we do now.
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the topic we all want to know about. And thirdly, by Now Pay Later exploring the future of payments pop September twenty third and October twenty first for those remain two in your calendars and have included the link to register in the show notes. One giant silver lining of the past year or so has been getting access to some of the cleverest minds and their wisdom without having to go anywhere, So don't miss the chance to take
advantage while you can hopefully see you there neighborhood. Firstly, like you knew that you wanted to run a business when you're a kid, but if you had tried to start that business straight out of UNI, you would never have started the business you have now. Like this just goes to show that every step along the way has
been necessary for you to get this idea. And I think we're so impatient to rush to the end all the time, but if you're just willing to sit through all the little bits and all the dot points, an idea will hit you at the right time, and often twice. In this story, you've mentioned times where you've gotten something the minute you stopped looking for it, the minute you stop stressing so hard about finding your next partner, or
stop stressing so hard about making your baby. Like the it, you just take your foot off the breaks and be okay with like the universe taking its time. It happened, even getting pregnant, but also other things, better things happen along the way.
Then I, you know, everything started happening with the business, and that's when I that's the moment where we had a lot of unsuccessful pregnancies. The miscarriages were really tough. Actually that's a discussion for another time too. But during that time, that's why it was so important for me to focus on something else, because I was getting really depressed and it wasn't happening, and I thought, oh my god, I left it too long, I'm too old, and all
of those thoughts. I mean, as a woman, you just blame yourself naturally, and it's not a healthy way to think of things. But it's it's very difficult to get yourself out of that right where you're like, is there something wrong? With my body. Why why you know everyone else falls pregnant so so easily. But yeah, you're so right, because as soon as things started kind of taking off
with bloom effects. In fact, I found out I was pregnant the day of our event, our press event, so we had like editors, we had air flu and says carrying a party and I was eight weeks pregnant and couldn't have any champagne.
I'm throwing up at the party.
I was green. I matched the color of the leaves from the tulips, like I was really green back in the pictures.
I'm like, oh wow. Not great timing. But it's also funny that, like you mentioned, starting the business wasn't like you didn't sit down and make a business plan of this is the business that I want to have at this size with these stockers, with this packaging. Like it's I think people think that's how businesses happen. You have an AHA moment, and you have an RHA moment for the whole concept of you know what the business is meant to look like in ten years. But the AHA
moment is like a small idea. It's usually just oh, tulips and beauty, and that's like as much detail as you need until tomorrow, which is okay, well, what's good about the tulips? And then how do we put that into something? And then like you only need to do one step at a time, and people get so overwhelmed because they think that they have to do all the
steps on the first day. But I love that bloom Effects is like really developed from small ideas, just taking one step after the other after the other, and now it's turned into this big thing. But you didn't conceive of this on day one.
That's totally right. And actually I think it's it goes back to that mentality of chipping away at something because for me, unearthing the power of the tulip was that moment. But then I'm like, well what do I do with that? And it did come quite naturally. I was still consulting. I was using a platform called Venmo to pay my babysitter to get was like pay pal, so like, yeah, I was paying my babysitter to like help me create these products. And I was scrappy. I was really scrappy
because you know, it was just me. I was using my savings and I believed in this, but I didn't know where it was going to go. And then once I found out I was pregnant, I was like, okay, I have kind of a reason or motivation to truly make this a brand. I needed to use clean beauty, and coming from pharmaceuticals, I really was more science led and having exma, I've been in and out of dermatologist all my life, so I knew how to look after my skin, and I knew about having a healthy microbiome
and having a good barrier function. But I didn't know about clean beauty at all. And then wow, just it didn't resonate with me because I was like, oh, does that stuff really work? I've got egma and clean Beauty doesn't talk to eggma. It talks to people that are more focused on cleaning in terms of the toxicity. But then I got pregnant and I was like, oh, half my regimen I'm not allowed to use, right, And that's when I was like, okay, I need to understand this
a little bit more. And you know, because of my pharmaceutical background and my interest in chemistry, I was like, what are these actives that I'm not allowed to use during pregnancy? If I'm not allowed to use them, dream
of pregnancy, then are they really good for me? And I just that really spun everything on its heat, And so that is why, honestly you wear clean beauty because of that personal journey and discovery that I had and I realized, hey, there are other ways that I can heal and treat and nourish my skin without having to go to prescription medicines.
Right, Oh my gosh, it's so interesting. I think it's like hearing the reasoning behind certain parts of a philosophy of a brand makes the brand so much more alive for me. Like I get so excited when I hear the story behind it, and I mean, I already knew this, which is why every time I talk about Bloom, I'm like, I don't have enough frames in my stories to talk about everything I want to talk about because it's almost like I know too many things and it's all exciting.
But hearing it all unraveled this way, I think it's so exciting. It makes Bloom effects the most vibrant, dynamic thing ever. And like, I can't believe it's taken me fifty minutes to even get to this topic because I've been so interested, Like this is another one of those episodes where I'm like, I just want to ask him, like I haven't heard all these stories before, so I'm just going to take as long as i want. But I'm like, shit, oh my god, it's been fifty minutes.
But what are some of the things that now the range like that you're so excited about? Like, I know it isn't just clean beauty. The ingredients and the Dutch proprietary complex of you know that's come from the tulips you guys have developed is amazing, but it's also the packaging you're using, like sawdust to make the tubes. It's amazing what you've been able to achieve so far. And yes, oh my god, so tell us everything. What are all the things that you're so proud of now? What the wait?
Can I have my beauty influence a moment and Ange will be so proud?
Oh my god, yes, please shall be so proud of you. Oh my god. Yeah, what are the things like you're most proud of now? And like the biggest milestones you've heard and just yeah, why you're excited about what it can do and what it's going to do.
I'm super excited because every time we get a review there's always like really considered reviews that come through the website and I read them and it really touches my heart because I've gone through such a personal journey and anyone that follows us on bloom Effects on Instagram will see that I have good days and bad days, and I'm very honest about my skin struggles. But it's great to hear that other people in the universe are having great experiences as well. So that makes me really proud
that we're making a difference to people's lives. And then from a sustainability perspective, I do love that we really try to make a difference with our packaging. But what I will say is it's not something that we hang our hats on that often, because it should just be the norm these days in corporate beauty. I think that everything that you do in business you should be considering sustainability.
That's the path forward, because you know, climate change is real and we need to make sure that we have a future for our children and for me selfishly, I just want to make sure that the world's a good place that my daughter's growing up in. So yes, we have glass which is infinitely cyclable, we have our PCA tubes, which were the first ones in the United States to
use this technology. It's ninety five percent renewable resources, and it's actually made out of Germans ordust, which is a topical issue at homes, like I wish it was dust from like Dutch people, not like Germans because there's like a rivalry. It's kind of like a it's kind of like a New Zealand Australian thing where they're friends but.
Not Yeah, okay, I would like Dutch thought whatever.
Most in terms of our sustainability is being able to push back on the supply chain. And when I say push back on the supply chain, aka push back on my husband and the way far must work.
Yeah, it's like white, isn't your supply chair? So your husband.
We're in a really unique position where our raw material is sourced from you know, family basically, and we have the ability to push back on supply chain and ensure ethically and sustainable growth. So crop rotation is a very important thing, and make sure that toolips aren't grown in the same location, so you know, when you have a geo location tag for the TOOLI fields and people are always dming are saying I want to see the toolet fields.
Where are they? What's the location? Well, guess what it's going to be that location, and it won't be that location for another seven years because we actually have crop rotation. We don't grow the same crop on the same piece of land for another seven years and that allows different crops to then give the soil nourishment. It means that we're replenishing the soil, we're not stripping the soil, and it's a very important part of more natural and sustainable agriculture.
Sir David Edinburgh actually did a documentary recently about climate change and there's a whole section about why Dutch farmers are actually the most sustainable farmers in the world and the whole ethos is doing more with less and this tiny country, it's like the size of Tasmania is doing so much to feed the world and supports the whole world's needs of plants and cup fl as well. And it's second to the United States, which is so big, and his tiny country is doing so much to pull their weight.
It's amazing.
Yeah, So in terms of what we're proud of in terms of sustainability, it's that ability to push back on the supply chain because of my husband. And not only do we upcycle the tulip bulbs because I know I call him a tulip farmer, but he's actually a bulb grower, and bulb growers don't actually use the flower at all. So those beautiful Instagram pitches and drone shots that you
see of the tulips growing, that's all waste. They actually just dig up the bulbs and then they put bulbs in little sacks and they sell them at places like Bunnings where you then can go into a store and plant the bulbs into your garden.
Oh my gosh, but the flowers themselves are all waste.
So initially when we launched the brand, we use a proprietary Dutch toolip complex, which uses upcycled bulbs because a lot of consumers want uniformity. When you go to the grocery store, your cucumbers, your tomatoes, your eggs, they're all uniform. Heirloom isn't just a trend. Heirlooms actually the way Mother Nature intended. And if you want to call them ailom bolbs, they're the ones that are discarded because of their irregular shape and size, and heink can't use them, even though
there's nothing wrong with the bulbs. So that's what we use. We upcycle the wasted discarded bulbs at heind can't sell and we use that in our proprietary Dutch tool complex through stem cell technology. And so that's in you know, products like this, the nectar and the dew cream and the dew drops some of my favorites. But most recently we've just launched this and it's not available on a show just yet.
So pretty.
Oh my. So it's superlux and they're super fancy. But so yeah, as a consumer, going back to that, I always wanted to be spoken to as a female and not a patient. I think the aesthetic of our brand is very much about luxury and enjoy that feminine moment. And that's been really important to me because yeah, I do have examum, but I want pretty things too. I don't want to be a patient.
And like, what I love so much about how much thought goes into everything is that the jars for the range that uses the bulbs are shaped like bulbs, but the black tulip uses the benefits from the tulip petals, so it's shapel.
Like actually exactly, I'm so I have nick told you that, because sometimes I forget that fact. But yeah, I was about to say from the sustainability factor, because all the flowers are waste. And it's devastating actually to me because they go in with like essentially this huge lawn mower and they cut the heads off the tulips and people get Yeah, they have that reaction on TikTok and on Instagram.
Every time we explain what chopping is, people are really mad actually in the comments and they're like, why are you destroying the fields? Why are you cutting all these flowers? Can't you use them? How dare you cut the beer? And it's like, well, one it's private property, and two it's his livelihoods so and three it's actually how you get a bigger bolb. Yeah, and all over the world because they.
Export all over the world.
So what happens is if you left the flower on the plant, then the plant would actually turn into a seed box and you would get tiny little seeds, and then next season you would have to then plant those seeds and it takes seven years to go from a little seed to an actual plant that has a flower. And he can't wait seven years. He needs flowers every year.
He needs bulbs every year. So what he does is goes through and chops the head off the tool, leaves the leaves in the stem, and the compounds that are in the stem and the leaves are keneten and oxen, and that's what elongates the stem and actually is great for the skin, but that is what creates more energy for the plant photosynthesizers, and the sugars go back into the bulb, yielding a bigger bolb. So then when he then harvests them out of the ground, you get big
juicy bulbs. And the bigger the bulb, the bigger the flower. Because people expect flowers every single year. So what do you do with all that waste? You know, all the tulips, the billions and billions of tulips that are just cut from the head. And they've been doing this for centuries. It's a sixteenth century industry, and little old me here revolutionize this sixteenth thous exactly. We were like, hey, we're
going to use those choppings. We'll find out the compounds that are in the choppings, then we're going to use that in our proprietary Dutch tool of complex. But wait, one of the findings was the deeper, the darker the tulip, the richer the flabinoid count. And flabinoids are essentially antioxidants, so I'm.
Like, yeah, they were in MATCHA two.
Yeah, so I'm going to go, Okay, flabinoids, how do we harness those deeper, the darker the tulip, what's the deepest, darkest black toolip. I learned that and then chopping, okay, sustainable upcycling. We're gonna be the first ones to upcycle these this waste product which is all the petals, and that's how Black Tool was born. So it's like science, nature and necessity for the Yeah. Pretty cool.
That is why I get so flipping excited about this brand because, like I think, one of the most incredible things, and I talk about it all the time and people like, oh my god, Sarah, stop it, get off your soapbox. But I get so excited when businesses use their impact in business towards causes, like because if they don't have to do that, they businesses and consumers and will survive
no matter what. But I love that when businesses use the choices the impact that they can create with the choices that they make in their supply chain, and with their packaging and with the way that they do things to educate and to have an impact beyond just the creation and the selling of what they do, Like it makes me so excited. I'm like, oh my god, business
is channeling their impact for good. And I think it's so amazing that your actual product development has stemmed from global problem solving rather than like I just want to create a fancy product that is, you know, the next version of whatever that uses the pedals. It came out
of filling a gap environmentally. And that's something that I love about you guys, that you are so led by something bigger than just what is going to be the nice, prettiest beauty product, even though that, of course, like high performance beauty products is important. So much else is important to the brand as well, and it's been like there, having been around since the start and seeing all this,
I am a sucker for a niche community. Like the podcast allows me to just dive really deep into really specific areas and learning all about tulip farming and the seven year cycles, Like it's fascinating.
Well, you're going to get over here and get your hands dirty. We're going to make Yeah, as soon as you can travel, you and nick me to come over here and we'll give you all the planting experience you need. But to your point about people caring parton than the French, but like people give a shit. And I think that any brand that tells themselves that it's just about consumerism is fooling themselves because these days you just you can't. You have to be triple threat, you have to you
have to be three sixty in your approach. We're just really lucky that we have such access to a true business. And I know a lot of brands talk about in my space anyway, they talk about you know, farm to face or farm to table or you know, working with farmers, et cetera. This is not just a pretty Instagram moment like it is a legit business. As I said, hands a fourth generation tool of farmer. His business is actually
what pays for the roof over our head. You know, we're just a baby, baby business and we're still really scrappy, and it certainly doesn't put food on the table. So here's the provider right now. I hope that one day that I can, you know, pay him back in spades, but right now it's his business that is the legit business, and so in that sense, it's not like the farm is the Instagram moment. The farm is truly its own thing.
It is a commercial business on its own. And to have positive impact on another industry when you're such a small indie brand is really a humbling. You know, we're like a tiny, tiny brand right now, and one day we won't be I'm sure, being single minded as I am, I'm sure that this will be successful and people will
find out about us. But in the scheme of things, we're tiny, and we are trying to make this impact and we're actually making positive change where the government and even the National Tourism Board is like, wow, you're doing something sustainable and upcycling, and you're bringing innovation from one industry into another industry that is male dominated, that is centuries old, that is a patriarchy. Like I said, fourth
generation son, he was born into it. There are a lot of things that as an Asian female, an ossy Asian female coming into this, people wouldn't expect me to make positive change to the toolip industry. So for me personally,
it's a lot more than sustainability. It's actually giving Eva the the balanced future, like a picture of a balanced future ahead that you know, it's not that she just has to follow her footsteps in her father or like, you know, because there's it's always it's discussed as the business. It's like the mob the business. It's you know, the family, the family business, and it's only the sons are getting involved, et cetera, et cetera. No, she has an opportunity now.
She can choose bloom effects or she can choose the farm. And that was really important to me because my mom put all of those goals and pushed me to strive for more and for a better life. And I want to be able to do that in my own way for my daughter.
Oh okay, I have goosebums. That's so beautiful. But just by the bye, like you keep saying, tenny, teny tiny, it's mate in Bloomingdale's sacks. Like you've won so many beauty awards. It's only been around for like how long two years, not even and have won yeah, for jillion prizes.
Yeah, I created this.
You do not play it down. Man. The products themselves are incredible, thank you. Yeah, but I mean the results have just been extraordinary aside from everything else, that you're doing. So it's been absolutely amazing to watch and so exciting to continue to watch for what you guys have been able to achieve. I would love to ask, I've kind of run us really short of time because I got too excited about the story, which I often do because the story just makes me like, oh, but along the way.
There was meant to be a full section on your ATA, but just a couple of things I'd love to ask. I think you seem to be very good at just breaking down what you need to get done to get towards your goal. And I think a lot of people like will figure out what their goal is and know what it looks like, but then not be able to just take the action to just do it. And I'm sure it wasn't as simple as you make it sound like I just wanted this goal and so I just
moved from New York to Amsdam. I just wanted this thing and I just made this big change. But it does seem like you have ahead on your shop ordes it allows you to do that for people who get paralyzed with self doubt or expectation or fear or comparison or whatever barriers stop them from being able to take action and take control of their lives, even if it
involves like how many different structures have you done? You've gone from business to corporate and corporate back to business, from the US to Melbourne to you know, the Netherlands. Like how do you take big scary steps and be okay with them? And how would you encourage others who struggle with that to kind of get better at it.
That's a really interesting question. And I actually never saw myself as a risk taker. I'm quite risk averse in a lot of ways because I do mentally kind of weigh up all of the pros and cons in my head. But I don't get paralyzed by it because I'm action oriented. I think being really crystal clear about going from A to Z, don't get mixed up with all the letters in between. That's really important. And again it's about that grit.
It's about being single minded on that vision, have that picture of success, look at the obstacle ahead of you and go okay. So what are the negative pros and cons of going forward with this specific situation and how does it get to the end the Z or the Z? I forget where I come from now, I spend much time in I.
Was going to say, you said Z, and I was like, WHOA still Australian at heart, like, but really, you know the astrozenica fac Everyone here calls it a Z. I'm like, excuse me, Like a Z sounds better than a Z, but I'm like, what's tomato?
But for me, it's being And I've done my Maya's Briggs and all of that, and actually that abstract reasoning I think they call it is like my strongest ability. And that's like finding a solution in a problem where there's really no right answer. And the reason why I can do that is because I'm very crystal clear on that end result. So be end result focused and you're going to have hiccups. There'll be days where you're like, oh my god, I'm going backwards, or this is so stressful,
I want to throw in the towel. But if your end result oriented, you will get there and you just keep on chipping away. That's honestly my secret source. And having the ability to take risks is a luxury. I knew that if everything went belly up, I have a loving family. I have loving parents who have a wonderful home, and if it all goes belly up. What's the worst thing that could happen. I could pack up my bag and go back home to Melbourne and I would have a roof over my head and food on the table.
So those necessities are a luxury, and I go back to what my mum instilled in me. Not everyone in the world has that, And if you have that, you have no reason to hold yourself back because some people are worried about where their next meal is coming from. So for me, I was like, yeah, I'm going to take this risk, going to quit my job and you know, follow my heart and meet this guy in Netherlands and meet his family and you know, try to have babies.
But if it worked out there we didn't like each other and it all went to shit, then my parents still love me. I have a home back home in Melbourne and I can always go home. So that to me has been the ultimate luxury and the ability to give me confidence to take risks, because my fallback position isn't really a fallback. It's a place of love and it's a very special and unique and privileged place to be. And so anyone that has that, nothing else is really
a risk, because what else really can go wrong. It's a bit different now, to be honest, because I'm responsible for a human being, and so probably probably now i'm more risk averse because I have to think, you know, my decisions will impact another human being, because I'm responsible for a tiny human being, and how does that impact her happiness and her life? So right now I think
I'm a little bit more conservative. But back then, when it was just me and responsible for my own happiness, yeah, I think having a family is the most important thing. It sounds kind of cliche, doesn't it.
It's but cliches a cliches for a reason. That's how they become cliches. I love that too. I think it's really beautiful to always just ask yourself, like what is the worst that can happen? And it's never nearly as bad as when you don't ask yourself the question. Like I think if you let the worst case scenario just look like this blurry scary thing over there that you never actually confront and think all the way through to
its actual tangible what would it look like? Then it's like in a movie, if you can't see the ghost, it's way scarier than when you actually see it, And you're like, oh, it's just a monster like that, you know what I mean, Like, as soon as you confront something head on, you're like, it's not that bad.
Like it.
The risk is not nearly as big as your brain will let it think. If you let it, you know, go completely out of control.
I think that also can be said for plans as well, because I know that a lot of my friends have said, hey, Kim, you've got this up and running so quickly, and you weren't bogged down by the detail. And what I see is a lot of entrepreneurs or what people that want to get into entrepreneurial aspects of their life, they're really bogged down by their plans. And a plan is great, but the plan's not going to make anything happen. It's
just words on a piece of paper. And for a dyslexic person like hello.
It's not even words on a piece of paper, it's just learn exactly.
So get into the doing, like, roll up your sleeves and just focus on going from A to Z as fast as you can because you'll learn on the way, and you'll learn your Everyone's going to make mistakes and you'll screw up, and then you'll dust yourself off, and you'll learn from it and you won't do it again, and that's how you improve. Yeah.
Absolutely, another question on that sort of challenge along the way thing that I think is really relevant to you. There's been many times that you've changed your identity or changed the category of life that you're in and the like, even just from the Australian market to the US market, and then from you know, from corporate, particularly as an employee, and then moving to running your own business having not done that before, even though you've run big departments. It's
a very different thing. And I think one thing that people do is they get very siloed in I am a risk averse person. Therefore for the rest of my life I won't take risks and they don't realize well, actually, at any time you can decide I don't want to be a risk averse person anymore. You can actually change your views and beliefs and neural pathways at any time that you want to suit the new environment that you're in. And you've done it more times than most, I think,
like moving countries and moving life structures and jobs. So to people now who are finding and I hate using this word, but who are finding a change of identity or a pivot or any kind of big life upheaval hard to adjust to. How have you done that? How have you changed? Like you know, the things that suit you well in a corporate structure, I probably don't suit you very well in a business structure. I found that leaving law, I had to change a lot of my
fundamental approaches to things. But you can shed your old thinking patterns and find new ones. How have you done that? I don't know if I have good answer.
I honestly i'd like to take a different stance on that. And this is an intellectual debate, but I think that innately people have like their set kind of moral compass and ethics and values, and I don't think that necessarily changes in terms of what you truly believe in is right or wrong and whatever that compass is. What I do think is that we're very malleable as humans and can change how you react and respond and grow from
every single environment. But as long as you stay grounded and don't change what you fundamentally think is right and wrong and whatever that compass is, and whatever oils your joints, like whatever you think that is, like super important in life that needs to stay true and then all the other stuff can change. And you know, like flared genes versus skinny jeans or whatever it is, like homre versus
going natural. Like I've had every hairstyle. I've had every style, like pair of genes, you know, contouring and lashes versus just a natural face. I go through phases, And I think you have to allow yourself to change, whether it's fashion or beauty or more important things in life, like
you know, your career and your life choices. Just be true to yourself and really listen to your moral compass and understand what makes you tick and make sure joints more oiled up and ready to go and gets you excited and gets you out of bed every day, because that will never change. Everything else can change, like the wallpaper for example.
Yeah, and I love that you use that phrase whatever oils your joints because that leads really nicely to the last part, which is your plata. And that is exactly that, that thing that's not related to your career and not related to productivity necessarily, but the thing that just makes you flipping excited to get out of bed, Like what are the things that make you forget the time that just makes you so happy and excited that even if it is a waste of time, you consider it worthy
and that you make time for. And I feel like, yeah, it can't be related to beauty and it can't be related to entrepreneurship or tulips or flowers.
This is so stereotypical as a new mum or a first mum, Like it's either it's yeah, it's doing stuff with my daughter. It's going to this like monkey town and going into the ball pit, which I'm a bit of a germophobe, and I think about all those kids who have got those balls in their mouth. They're like
slobbering over it. But you know what, it doesn't matter because she's happy and doing stuff like that with her is so important and seeing her develop and grow through this business journey and then through like not having my family. It is quite isolating actually, because I work so many hours. I'm in front of my desk and I'm away from my family and I'm away from my friends. Most of my adult friends are, you know, in New York. My
childhood friends are in Melbourne. I don't have any friends here because I have no time to make friends, and I don't speak the language, I don't have family here, so it is quite isolating. And so what gets me up in the morning isn't work. Actually it's Eva. It's because I want to be better for her and I want to have fun with her. And I'm so excited that you know, she can say purple now, and she can say yellow, and she says so many English you know, that's a huge thing.
Oh my god. Yeah, So does she speak Dutch?
She does, she says, she says n which is no, But.
Yeah, Nati a babe, I'm speaking Dutch. Did you not know that I meant I meant that to be a Dutch I wanted it to be an international podcast exactly. Second last question, Three interesting things about you that don't normally come up in conversation, and you skated over it in the first part, which I'm not going to allow you to do now. First one is that you are on an episode of House Hunters and you were sitting on a toilet. Amazing. Tell me more, tell me more
about this. Do you know after I posted that video the other day about just a little snippet of your story, someone inboxed me and said, oh, I saw those guys on house.
No, you're making that up.
No, I promise you I'm not. I'll find the messge I'll send it to you after I was like, shut up. I met Kim sitting on a toilet.
I actually didn't know people were that as with this show. My friend was a producer at the time, and she was like, yeah, I work on this show. She does reality TV and it's about couples who really, Hey, do you guys want to be in it? Because they like the whole contrast between like they call me fashion Easter, which I'm not, by the way, I've never worked in fashion.
They called you in New York Fashion. Yeah, I was like, what is that? She's a corporate big wee betray me as.
This like Devil wears Prada person. And then Hi is this humble country bumpkin. By the way, he's not a country bumpkin because the country like it takes an hour and a half to drive from border to border, and he's we leave fifteen minutes out of the city. So actually, in like in terms of Melbourne scale, it would be the equivalent is.
A city boy.
Yeah, it'd be the equivalent of like Armadale that we.
Live you know, yeah, so close right, So.
Yeah, how Center's international was a thing? And yes, I was sitting on a toilet on I can't even call it national TV. It's international TV.
Right, global, You're a global sensation. Yeah, I'm actually going to make that the title for your episode, Kim Babhast Reality TV star House Hunters.
I love that. And so I need to tell you two more that people don't know about me.
Yeah, okay, yep, just random things.
Random things. I went to ten different primary schools and three different high schools.
Yeah, oh my, and did tell me there were a lot of schools. I was like, and dished the dirt. I need some dirt on Kim, and she was like, there were a lot of schools. Wow, I didn't know ten.
Yeah. So, I mean my mom and my biological father didn't have a happy marriage, and we moved around a lot. And I'm so during podcast I mentioned my dad. I guess, you know, technically speaking, is my stepdad. I don't like to use that term because it doesn't honor the role that he's played in my life, either call him John or my dad. But we, yeah, unfortunately moved around a lot. So my childhood, I touched on it before in terms of being shyer and more introverted and sticking to my
mum like Lou. But there was a reason because our life wasn't so stable and things were easy for us. We had quite a difficult time in that period of my life, and I think that has really created the person that I am now because I am more well rounded in terms of making friends and being adapting to change easily. I can make friends quickly when I have time to get out of the house, and it's made me grounded and rooted in what's important as well, and
to me, family is the most important. And things change. Schools change, jobs change, people change, everything changes, but what stays true is you know your family and the people that you love, and that that kind of security banket that I have. And my mum is my rock. So yeah, that's kind of another fact. And then she's great. She's just she loves cooking, So anytime you guys want to go down there after lockdown, please go down there and
eat food. Also, she didn't know that An was Vietnamese as well, and so she was serving Vietnamese food to ad like like it was exotic cuisine. And she's like oh I have this.
Yeah, I live with like twelve Vietnamese people in my house, including my grandma who only left Vietnam for the first time last year.
And now is it international TV sensation?
International TV sensation. She's so famous?
Yeah, so she needs that headline.
Yeah, no, you need that headline. You guys could get together and chat all the reality TV stuff.
Me and Auntie Judy.
Oh my god.
And the third thing, I am really really uncoordinated and bad at sports and bad it anything fit Yep, I'm not. Like. I see you and Nick working out and running and doing the gym stuff, and Nick with his top off all the time, and I'm like, why do they want to do that?
Why that doesn't mean that he's doing anything. He can just take it off and pretend that he went to the gym. It doesn't mean he actually worked out.
So I preach clean beauty and I preach a sustainable lifestyle. But my lifestyle should be more sustainable because I probably need to eat better and I probably need to work out. Like period, I don't work out at all, and it's a problem. I don't like sweating. I like have this, Like I just I'm allergic to sweating. There you go. That's the third fun fact. I'm allergic to sweating.
I love it. That's a great excuse. I've never heard that one. Very like I said, you'll see a problem, you'll make a very creative solution. I am allergic to exercise because I'm allergic to it's my skin problem. What can I say exactly?
He makes me chee nice?
It's my skin problem. Okay, don't discriminate. Very last question, my love, what is your favorite quote?
Oh? You got me stumped. Now I'm going to go back to where there's a will, there's a way.
Yeah, that's so you. I love that and I love that. Thank you, yeah much.
I think I think that's my favorite quote because it's been it's been a tough up and down journey my life, and it's still I'm not dead, obviously.
Mostly up.
I've always had passion, enthusiasm and a spirit for life, and I always knew that I would have what my vision of a picture of success is, and I'm so happy that I've been able to achieve that. I'm sure that picture will change as I get older, but I have a beautiful daughter and a loving husband, and I'm really proud to say that I'm an entrepreneur.
Oh my god, and you have a work husband.
Yeah.
I feel like he speaks to you more than he speaks to me.
He says that all the time. He's like, Sarah's in a next room, I haven't spoken to her all day, but I'm speaking to you. And because of the time difference, I speak to him like later night and early in the morning as well, Like he's in bed texting me, by the way.
Like he's always on his phone. He's like, it's Kim. I'm like, okay, it's fine. It's either Kim or John, Like either one, it's fine.
It's good that heine is not a jealous man, because every time Nick calls me, he's WhatsApp profile picture comes up, and you know, he's half naked.
I was gonna say, he definitely doesn't have a top one.
Well yeah, sorry, half naked could be the other yeah, the top half half. And Hein's like, like, you know, inditionally when we started working with each other's like, who is this topless guy that he's not calling you later at night?
Oh my god? I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining Lovely. This was so fascinating. I didn't know half of that, and you just have such an amazing story and are so inspiring and I can't wait to see how the rest everything on Rebels.
Thank you, Sarah, Thank you for the opportunity, super humbling experience. Like obviously, I know how amazing your guests have been, like the cast that you've had your on your TV show. No, honestly, it's just been a wonderful experience and getting to know you and Nick virtually. You know, I've only met Nick twice in real life. I know, how crazy is that
all the time you're like family. Yeah, we met on set for a client like job and then we just got talking and then he the first thing he gave me was the cesar Ya Helena was quote yeah, and he's so proud. He like opened up his boot and he's like, wait before you go, I want to give you this. This is from my wife. And he told me the whole story.
My god, He's like.
Your best champion, your best cheerleader. You guys are great and I'm so grateful for you friendship and support and everything that you guys do for us.
Oh, we love you. Oh and quickly, of course, where can we get bloom effects? Most importantly.
Oh well, if you're Australian hot off the press, we've just launched a look fantastic dot com dot AU and there's a secret code, so if you use twenty bloom you get twenty percent off. But if you're not in Australia anywhere else in the world, you can go to bloom Effects dot com and type in the same code, which is twenty bloom, and you'll get twenty percent off thanks to Nick.
That sounds like you've said that before once or twice.
The thanks to Nick part is because he does all the coding, so he mix the codes.
I was posting the other day, I was like, can you just freaking make the code already? I did to
post this story. Oh thank you so much, lovely bye. Well, if you thought I was biased towards Bloom Effects before this episode, I hope you can see now why I'd objectively be obsessed with the brand and it's depth and philosophy, regardless with a woman like these added helm and a story like this behind its founding, even without the incredible results achieved from the delicious jewel of nectar, what is not to love? I hope you enjoyed hearing from Kim
and in a time when we can't travel. I also feel like I got a little taste of New York again at Amsterdam while we chatted away. As always, we would love you to share any takeaways or AHA moments of your own, tagging at Kidney van Hasta and myself, and of course to give bloom Effects a try. All the details are repeated in the show notes for you. I hope you're all having a wonderful week and are seizing your ya