I often say to people, write down three things you really love and that you enjoy, and then through areas that you'd like to change in this world, maybe directing your community, and try and join the dots and keep looking at them.
Until you do.
Honestly, for me, this isn't random acts of kindness, Like I don't believe it's random to be kind to someone. I believe it's like part of who we are.
Welcome to the Seies the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives they adore, the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day
will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned entrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bark Sez the Ya is a series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt challenge, which joy and fulfillment along the way. It's so funny how the universe often throws you a quote or a message just when you need
it most. I hear this so often with Quote of the Day and experience it all the time myself, and the same seems to happen with our wonderful guests. Victoria just extended its snap lockdown by another week today, so I was needing another little pep up. And while Hugh Van kyleen Berg last week is a very hard act to follow, I think you'll find our guest today just
as uplifting, inspiring and a truly special soul. You may have heard me speak about Joshua Coombs on Yighborhood Watch a few days ago, and I'm so thrilled to say, not only has his book Do Something for Nothing launched in Australia just this week, he's also joined us on the show for today's episode. If you missed my intro
on Monday. Joshua is a British hairdresser who took his skill onto the streets to give free haircuts to the homeless, and together with his passion and skill for storytelling, has created a global movement of kindness, connection, and humanity. His incredible book shares stories as well as before and after images of the people he's met from all over the world, including right here in Melbourne, showing the confidence, hope, and joy he brings them from just taking a moment to connect.
For people who often feel invisible and misunderstood by society, Joshua is shining such an important light on homelessness and helping break down the stigma that it's still surrounded by. He's also encouraging us all to do something for nothing. For him, it's by giving out free haircuts, but he insists that we all have a skill or talent that we can share for free with others. I found him
so fascinating and his stories even more captivating. You'll notice in this one the audio changes about halfway through when his airpords died with a bit of clicking just before that happens, so please excuse the glitches. But we still managed to have a pretty incredible conversation across the globe, so I'm still pretty chuffed with that.
Hope you guys.
Enjoy Joshua, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I appreciate it.
Oh, thank you so much for your time. I mentioned just before we started recording, I'm quite in awe of you. It's very hard to render me speechless, But reading your book for the second time today, I was not only speechless.
But almost in tears.
What an extraordinary journey you've been on.
Yeah, you know, it's been I guess about five or six years since I first started going out and cutting hair for people on the street, but the process of the book itself has been a real journey. I wrapped it all up just before Lockdown and then had time to write it during lockdown. And I really hope that the stories in there of people that I've met in different cities like resonate and do justice to the people you know that you're reading about.
Oh my gosh, they absolutely do. You have brought so many beautiful personalities to life and stories with the photos, and I can't wait to get into all of it and love that you've turned a very tough situation of being in lockdown into a beautiful output for us all to enjoy around the world. But before we kick off, I start every interview by asking everyone what the most
down to earth thing is about them. To break through the often glossy surface of our digital lives, and I mean, by nature of what you're doing, it's pretty down to earth endeavor. But for those of you who see you as an author and with a big platform, you know, what's something really normal about you that you do?
Honestly, I think the best way to answer that is I can't do a week without two things, which coffee and my guitar as well. And I think the other things that even though coffee obviously shoots me up to an elevated kind of what can sometimes be too much caffeine state, the guitar is what brings me, brings me down.
To a level that is my down to earth, That is my.
Routing, that is kind of my Yeah, it's just like my grounding when I need it.
It's the way I meditate.
So I think that even though I'm doing a lot most of the time, and I'm quite a doer, and I'm trying to broadcast messages you will catch for quite a few hours when to have them just still just playing guitar on own. So that's kind of like that's a bit where I switch off from everything. So that's the way I like to say that I'm most down to worth.
Oh, I love that, And actually that leads really nicely into our first section, which is your way Ta, which really traces back through all the chapters before the one of your life where most of us were walking on, which is obviously now where you have a very clear purpose and direction and message to bring to people. But I think it's easy to forget that most of us
didn't start there. In fact, the first line of your book is that you didn't know what you wanted to be or where your skills were going to be, you know, best directed. So talk to us about young Joshua, what you were like as a kid. I know, music and your guitar was probably your first love and first vocation. Yeah, tell us about young you.
I think it was important to include in the book that I left school feeling that it was it was the end, not the beginning, And that was based out of feeling kind of the over here in the UK our GCSEs like our school grades take when you were sixteen. It wasn't just the theoretical and like the paper side of things that I was like staring at, like those in the face. It was more like just a feeling, like a sense of from the adults around me and
teachers and stuff. I was just like, oh this, you haven't done very well here, and like there's not much beyond this for you to kind of like go and pursue. And I grew up in the city Exeter in the southwest of England, but really was quite a small town when I grew up there, and it's grown a lot since then. And I had to find something. I had to find something to kind of like get my teeth into and like feel like I was part of something. And that was a guitar for me.
Early on.
It was my mom and my grandmother chipping in some money to buy me this. It was sort of like first grade guitar you get when you buy this little mini amp and you get this like electric. It wasn't a fender. It was called a square strat and it's like I still remember it was. It was like this first start I kit of like playing and it was just like everything I needed at the time because I just like could start playing a few chords and already I felt like, oh, this is a way of expressing
myself that I didn't find in school. And to be really on like to talk about school for a second, like a lot of it was my problem and what I was trying to live up to, because the way that I survived secondary school was by trying to be liked and like having some kind of bravado where I was like, you know, liked enough by the hard kids that I didn't get beaten up and sort of like friends enough.
With those guys over there, so I could kind of get on with them.
And it was sort of I learned how to be a chameleon, and I was very like I learned how to be funny, to be honest. Humor was like probably the best, the best course and the best medicine for me to get through those four years because it meant I survived socially. But in doing that, it was it was looking back, it was very clear that that came at a cost, you know, like as far as like getting kicked out of lessons and classes, and obviously it
was you know, quite very underfunded school went to. It wasn't all that good, Like it was a state school, so there was teachers who weren't getting paid enough. It was somewhere that I hadn't had loved that building for a while, so I sort of look back now and I think, yeah, many people did sort of finish school
with the same feeling as I did. But I feel really really lucky in the sense of having not only that guitar, but it was finding a you know, friends for you through music, which was a sort of punk music movement that happened, albeit sort of twenty five years after it happened in the late.
Seventies, but it was a revival.
It was it was just something where like my auntie, she gave me her record collection, like her old punk vinyl collection, and she knew what she was doing. Now I think back and I'm like, she knew exactly what she was doing, but it was my sixteenth birthday and she was like, here's everything.
You need to know that you haven't got right now.
And it was like all these bands who were just there was these messages with punk where it was an education too. It was like a political conversation, but also just this like this kind of like I don't know, this image also embodied just this ethos which was togetherness. And I found people in the same town who were into the same thing, and yeah, we sort of got to know. I got to know people who I suppose became a friend for life.
It's so interesting.
I hear this more and more that maybe it's changing now, which I think is a really exciting, you.
Know, direction shift education.
But there are so many people who come out of school feeling firstly like it's the end, not the beginning, but also that the schooling system it favors certain types of intellect and certain types of expression that then if you don't exhibit those exact traits often lead people to think that they're not very smart, or that they don't have a way in the world for their exact talents
to find a pathway where they're celebrated. And I love that the very last line of your book is that you know you're still that kid who was distracted and wanted to talk to the person next to you instead of being in classes, but that now that you know, tendency towards people and storytelling is your strength rather than
something that back then you saw as a weakness. And I think something I love to emphasize on this show is that there aren't only two main forms of intellect or expression, or career or success, and that we're meant to find those gray areas in between, and that sometimes that does take a music chapter and then a hairdressing chapter, and you know, identity unravels in parts necessarily. You know you said early in the book as well, but you
didn't have a burning passion to become a hairdresser. That just happened to be the next chapter, which has then led to finding what you do now. So I think, yeah, that was a wonderful insight on how music then kind of helped you rEFInd your creativity and your form of intellect definitely.
And everyone's version of that is going to be different, isn't it. But I feel like some people that do have this immediate idea of like this vocation that they want to pursue, and I think that's really great when people are so driven they have that kind of that from it early on. But the best people I meet still like still working it out, and then I realized that, oh yeah, you can keep on working out whatever that's
going to look like on the outside. But I think there is something important to connect to you underneath it, which is like what is it that really fills you up? Like, what is it that fills you up in a sense of like for me, it is people, and it is stories, you know, and like I'm really extra in that way, and I've always been out there talking to people and get to know people. And I know you can't just build a career around that as such, but it does give you some kind of indicators of like where it
is you might want to go. You know, I always knew I wasn't going to be behind the desk, and I think that that's totally cool if that's your trip too.
But I really hope that younger people. And when I do, I give talks in schools and I talk about my experiences and I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not saying follow what I did ever, But it's just it's important to recognize that at fifteen or sixteen or seventeen or eighteen, those kind of teenage formative years, like it's the beginning and like no one should make you feel like you're a failure in anything, Like you're not supposed to always know exactly what it is you're supposed to do that age.
And I think the best thing to do is is not put that pressure on people. As long as that pressure is on people, then I think we're good because as long as it's support on as long as it's love, and if you're lucky enough to have that around you,
then hopefully it will work itself out. But I do worry about the other side of it because I know people who felt the same as me, and you know, that can go in some difficult directions, you know, and people can rebel in different ways that hurt other people around them.
And you know, if you put.
That pressure on someone who hasn't got that support new work at home, who hasn't got that lover around them, who hasn't got a safety net, that can come out in all kinds of different ways.
Yeah, for sure.
And how lucky that you did have an aunt and a mum who knew that music would give you a really important vehicle to express yourself and find the next chapter. But given that you didn't actually have a burning passion to go into hairdressing, how did that become after doing gigs and tours and working in bars, like, how did that become your next step?
It was honestly, it was something that I sort of joke about with my friends now as well, because it had this stigma attached to it, hedgress some what were called in the UK. And you know, you're a hair stylist if it's in the US. But it's like I didn't see the route in for me initially because I sort of saw it as something that used to be these little salons on the corner and not something that was like really creative and had all kinds of people
like doing all kinds of things in this industry. So I think it has this perception from the outside from like people who just walk into a cell or a barbershop, and then when you get into the industry, you just see like, wow, you were just your mind's blown by like everything that's going on and like how passionate people are.
But yeah, for me, honestly, it wasn't that. It wasn't that that.
Feeling of sort of fall in love with the industry and that side of cutting hair.
It was I knew I played guitar.
I knew I could do that, and I thought, like, these hands aren't very good at like putting up shelves and doing DIY.
So I was like, it's kind.
Of like, what's that the next thing that I can maybe do and get my hands into it.
And I feel almost like bad and I'm offending people in that way.
And I was naive, as I put in the book, But I just like, I thought, how hard can this be? I walk into a sound and ask if they need me help. And I was like twenty four to twenty five at the time, so it was a bit of a humbling process. Like I walk in and you know, you're usually trying to be a head just when you're like sixteen and you start shampooing people of that age, and I'm like, I was doing this in my mid twenties.
So to answer your question, it was like it was a very humbling experience, and it was something that came from music kind of.
Not really happening anymore, and.
A relationship in my life ended like that was quite kind of a long relationship, and those two things kind of it just felt like this a rebirth of sorts that I needed to get my head into something, and it was that. And I feel so thankful that I got that opportunity because I worked for free for the first year still, so basically I had to work jobs around that, doing cafes and pubs and stuff like that
just to sort of pay rent for that year. And then after that I was sort of fast track to be in a stylis straight away because I picked it up quite quickly, but it was really humbling. It was an amazing experience. I realized quite quickly held like, obviously that role was a headress, so of course you want to make someone look good on the outside. But yeah, very quickly I was like, Okay, this is probably why I got into it. Because I'm talking to people each day,
people can confine in you. You're of course busy, and it's not always that easy. Sometimes you're back to back and you're rushing through the day, but I realized how important it is to be there for that person in front of you.
It's really interesting that.
I think it's actually even more fascinating that you didn't end up in it because you were so desperately passionate about that career. Because it's again another really important reminder that inevitably the dots will connect, even if you don't know what it the time, And now looking at what you've done with that particular skill, it makes absolute sense
why that was what you gravitated towards. And one of my best friends is a hairdresser, actually owns a couple of salons, is incredibly successful, and one of the things that happens to her often is this, I think there's still.
Is a little bit of stigma that.
It's you know, a less educated job that you are just you know, engaging in the superficial and making people look good for you know, an event or whatever. But really, she's like, you are seeing people at their most vulnerable often, you know, you have counter patients who need their heads shave for the first time, or you're being entrusted with She's like, I could ruin some people with the secrets that get told to me. Like that chair is as valuable as as a therapist's chair.
Definitely, Honestly, that's that's it, Like it really we've got this sneaky way of getting in there and like just fishing for secrets, like you know, honestly though genuinely it's not that calculative, but it is amazing that you're write that chair can provide that trust, you can define it like,
so I think what's interesting too as well? You're right, I mean there's so many different cases of people kind of heckut can be like a new chapter in your life, you know, if like a relationship's ended and like you want to, oh you want to start a new job or you know, as you said on the flip side, it could be someone trusting you with something where they're in a really difficult position and they really want your advice and they want your knowledge on like how best
to sort of make them feel better in those moments. So we all need, I think, people outside of our circle to talk to. And that's the reason why people will go to a therapist, because it's that objectivity, you know, And I think you have your support network within your friends and your family hopefully and beyond.
That, you do people to be able to sort of share with.
And I think that the headress is a way that I think, Okay, it's not prescribed in the same way and it's not on paper, that's not the first reason you go. But as part of that process and as part of that experience, I've seen that time and time again in the out on and like I definitely now in the work that I do, I experienced that on
the street. And the reason for that, I believe is also because when you face to face with someone that sometimes for me is like all right, if you're getting to know someone new, that like, I'm quite good in those scenarios, but it took me a while to sort of grow into that and for some people that's just not that easy, you know, to like be looking someone
straight on eye contact. But for me, when I'm cutting out on the street, I'm usually for most part and behind someone or to the side, and they're looking out at the world and looking out the street where they were before. And I think that is actually a really interesting part of it because it's not this really intense interaction.
I feel people relax into it, and I think that that's what's kind of been able to then have those conversations that are a bit more intimate, and I never pry or push for like any particular bit of information.
You just see what happens. You just have a chat like I.
Would have done in the chair in the sound, and sometimes you get to know someone in a deeper way, and sometimes it's just more surface level.
Yet I actually loved reading about that in every single story from the book, that it all starts with a very casual convert station. It isn't kind of like I'm going to cut your hair and change your life and give you confidence, blah blah blah. You know, like the scissors don't actually come out until you've really sat down
and engaged with them. As a person first, which I thought, think is really beautiful talk us through that time in twenty fifteen when it all started to change your understanding of your role and what.
You could do with your skill.
Was it because you tried it first? I think you were walking to work or walking to a friend's house and you saw a guy on the street, And how long had you been in the salon?
Firstly?
And then how did this do something for nothing movement develop?
Oh, it was really interesting how it began because I'd been working in a sund for probably only about three years at that time, so I was just getting to the stage where I was like building a clientele, getting to know people who'd come back and see me a lot. Like I guess it started to flourish, like why I had got into this sort of become a headdress. What I thought, I was going to work in a salon and keep doing this and maybe have my own salon one day and all that. Those kinds of things I've
never done. The five year plan, three year I'm usually like about a few months ahead of myself most of the time in my life, and I think that that's like for the first time, actually, I started to feel and sound.
I was like, Okay, maybe this is like what I'm going to do.
I started thinking future tents, but that all changed and it was I kind of like look back, and I feel like I knew it was going to because it was that side of this that I've spoken about, was that kind of like being there for the person in front of you. That on one day, I had my backpack with me and I was on the way to
another client's head. I basically I was on the way to a client's house where I do the outside of work to get some extra pocket money, and I had my things with me and my backpack and I saw somebody who was on the street and I ended up giving them a haircut instead, And that was not something I actually really thought through that much, and effact, I'm really glad that I didn't have much time to sort of think about whether that's a good idea to ask
somebody or whether it's something i'd really need, because let's be honest, like if you haven't got somewhere to stay that night, or you're not sure where you're getting your next meal from, it's like here I am turning up with I like, fancy a haircut?
I said, you know, I probably could have done some.
In a dialogue that would have you know, maybe told me that might not be the right thing to do. But instead I just I was buying someone a coffee and I sat down with them, and I just remember I had my all my stuff with me, and I offered this personal haircut and they said yes. And that really was the beginning of all of this, because without that first interaction, I don't know what you're doing now. I think I'd like to think that probably would have happened anyway, but another time.
But from that it.
Was the you know, the beginning of a few months of going out and doing this more and more. So I was immediately hit with this importance of not just the skill I had to go and give someone like a transformation and like make them, you know, kind of clean them up a bit, and obviously like giving them the mirror. At the end was this really beautiful moment of seeing somebody sort of you know, recognize someone they had seen for a while and and hopefully feel a
little bit more confident and more dignified. But honestly, straight away, it was the conversation. It was being able to sit down and listen and listen to someone's story, and it was that that I became really addicted to begin with, and I knew it was that side of it that
I had this itch. Then I was just like, I've got to go out and keep doing this, and the stories I was hearing just dissolved, like all these myths that surrounded this word homeless that I feel like, you know, I had to work out what kind of over the years had been my own opinion about this issue, and what had been just things that had stuck to me
from the information I was getting from different articles. And you know, it was just within the first five people or ten people I met, you know, I met someone who had their own business and you know, I had
a family and ended up losing it all. I also met, like on the other side of that coin, like someone who grew up in a really difficult neighborhood who didn't really have many chances and much of a support network, you know, those younger people and older people, And I just thought, this thing is just, you know, on the surface, it sometimes has this kind of this look that you know, we feel like it's just people making mistakes or choosing kind of like a certain path and it just really
is not like that, And even when it is, I was thinking, you know, I've made mistakes in my own life and make bad choices, but like I'm thankful enough, like there's been people around me who've been able to.
Support me in those moments.
So yeah, from that first heck, the story was like I suppose for me my own story change, which was like the listening that I do in the song and that kind of being there for someone.
I learned how to do that, I think in a different way. On the street.
I used to try and fill all the gaps in a conversation and be like, okay, this is how we interact.
My turn to talk, your turn to talk.
I learned to get really quiet and be able to when someone's talking, just stay quiet and listen to what else they have to say after the bit where you digitally kick in and say something else. From those first few people, it turned into, as I said, ten to twenty people, and I've got days off and do this, And then I ended up leaving my job probably about three or four months after I started doing this, And that was on a whim really, to be.
Honest, Wow, oh my gosh, I mean I love that so much that you mentioned that it might not have actually happened if you'd had more time to think about it. And I think there are a couple of things that can kill really good ideas, and one of them is overthinking and over.
Planning, yeah, for sure.
And the other one is the idea of you know, it's important to have certainty instability to an extent, and to sort of plan for the future. But sometimes if your plans are too rigidly set in stone, you preclude the possibility of something better turning up, like this idea that you could just roll with and just see what happened. And who knew that four months later you'd have left
your job to actually do this full time. But how extraordinary that it grew so quickly into something that consumed you.
Yeah, I think I think it's a really really good point you're making, because you're right the thing about stuff, I think so many you're writ so many good ideas. I think we have them, and then we have this internal dialogue, but it's sometimes not all that useful. And I know that we need to, like, yeah, we need to weigh things up in our mind in our life and work out the dos and don'ts and try and
make a measured decision based on those. But some of these things, and I talk about this a lot, is you know, especially when people ask me questions saying, you know, how best is it to go out and interact with someone who's experience in homelessness, and how do you approach somebody, and like the sort of guide to as far as like how you'd have one of these kinds of interactions.
And often I said, well, I can answer those questions or I can respond to them, but just to let you know, like this area that we're talking about and these kind of questions no point of fingers. But it's usually the biggest part of the problem, which is thinking there's all these questions that you need to answer and all the how to work you just go up and
say hello and how are you? And I think the more I do this, the more I realize that I still have those moments and it's so normal to have them, to think, you know, it's not that easy sometimes to like approach a complete stranger. I'm so I'm talking from a side of rewinding and thinking about what this was
like from me before and having empathy for that. It's not that easy, Like, sometimes you need to get outside of your comfort zone, especially in the scenario that I'm talking about, where you're talking people who are often in a very difficult position, sometimes suffering a lot with different issues. So I'm not going to sit here for a second and say get out there and do it. It's really easy, but I'd like to say play out the worst case scenario.
And I do that for myself sometimes when I sometimes feel a little bit nervy about talking to somebody new, and it's like, you know, it's the middle of the day, usually it's a busy street, there's somebody sat there by a cash point, in a supermarket, a bus stop, in a doorway.
They're not looking too good, or maybe they are, and they're smiling, so that makes it easy.
But even if the energy is not so good, it's like if I got up and I say, hey, how are you doing, What's like, you know, just draw their attention, smile.
I'm even going to be met with a smile back, a kind of like.
Warm interaction, maybe one that's a bit cagy, And then I think it's important just to read that energy.
And oftentimes I will always just say to people, can I.
Can I sit and chat with you for a while, and then if someone doesn't want to do that, if they're not feeling right, the worst case scenario is that they tell you to go away, and they might do it in some slightly aggressive way. They might not be having a good day. But in all the years I've been doing this, like, I've never had anyone become violent towards me. I've never had anyone lash out at me.
It's just about what do I do with that moment if someone doesn't want to talk to me and they're not feeling good and they're having a bad day, which, by the way, I often have those days before coffee in the morning, I don't want to talk to anyone, you know, or we wonder what it's like to have those days. We're like, you know what today talking to nobody would be amazing, like and I think I just recognize that to allow for someone else's bad days, to allow for my.
Own, And then it's really important just to say, like what do I do with that?
Am I going to take that experience and walk off and say, oh, I'm really hurt by that, and like I'm not going to approach somebody in that way again, And let that be the lesson or just think, okay, cool, like that experience exists where it did, I'm going to leave it there and I'm going to walk on and the next person I see is a brand new interaction.
I love that, And I think something that I think it was Nathan pointed out that's really important in.
All human interactions.
I think there are so many lessons about humanity generally, is that I think sometimes you want to offer sympathy, whereas really someone just wants empathy. And because sympathy can become in there is a very fine line. They're very kind of conflated concept sometimes, but sympathy puts distance between you and someone is like I'm the helper and you're the vulnerable. But empathy is like we're actually just all people and I'm just trying to sit down and have
a chat. If you're having a shit day, I'll leave you alone. I'll move on to someone else. And I loved that distinction because I think homeless people would often get sympathy when that's actually not a helpful, necessarily emotion.
I'm so glad you mentioned that. It is so important because like that, it's specific interaction. Nathan, who I met in Brisbane. It was like that in a nutshell, is such a great lesson? Is like sympathy honestly a lot of the time is actually a really useless emotion or like a useless kind of And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's okay to feel, oh, yeah, they're having a really bad time, like I do feel for them right now, but if you're on the receiving.
End of that, there's not much you can do with that.
I put myself in that scenario a lot of like what would be like for me if I was living outside and most of the interactions I had were ones where I had to go and like ask someone for something, whether that be like a shelter or a food bank, or you know, someone from the street, like whether they've
got some change. And I think after quite a few of those interactions, I probably would feel like it's not very dignified process, and the last thing I'd want is sympathy on top of that to feel like I'm not a human being. It's like, I'm just in a difficult position and this is where I'm at right now. But as Nathan said, sympathy is kind of useless to him. It's like try and like build a bridge of empathy. And I really think that that just starts with like
those first blocks. It's like, Okay, you might not be able to imagine completely like all the nuances of someone's life and what they're going through now, but you can sit on that a little bit and you can kind of get there, you know. I think it's it's another thing where there's these platitude we say to people, and I think it happens a lot through grief and loss as well, where people say, I can't imagine what that would be, Like, God, I can't imagine what.
You're going through, And I think you can. I think you can actually, like you can try. Yeah, I think you can.
I think you can work out what it's like to sit down and it's not easy and it's not nice, but to think about losing a loved one or a friend or someone who's really did to you, you probably can imagine what it's like not to have them in your life anymore. But it's saying you can't imagine, or saying kind of, you know, putting someone on that island then where they're kind of they're further away from you.
It isolates somebody. So I think it's better to start on that route and that direction, even if you're like, hands up, I don't know all of it, but that's an important road to take rather than pity and sympathy.
So I think is a really interesting point to raise.
I also loved I think one of the really powerful reflections from you towards the end as well, after having done a tour of you know, multiple different countries with your scissors and meeting so many different people, was that homelessness is you know, the greatest, most obvious challenges are surviving on the street and warmth and food, but actually those basic survival instincts are not as difficult as the social isolation psychologically that people face, Like I think that's
so sad that there are huge populations of people that are, you know, considered invisible, that either get only pity and sympathy or I just treated as if they're not there. And the simplest gesture, even if it's not necessarily creating a full movement called do something for nothing and writing a book, even just a smile. I think you wrote wrote quite a few pages about the impact of giving someone a smile and what's the worst that can happen.
They don't smile back. I mean, no one's died of that, so.
Yeah, exactly right.
You know, it's sometimes putting it in those simplest of terms to feel like, you know, really, come on, what is that going to cost you?
Is free? We've all got it. And I think what.
You're saying is really it's the crux of everything the book's about and everything that I try and body, like the ethos would do something for nothing is honestly for the record, like you smiling at someone is as important as me writing this whole book and doing this. What I'm trying to say is like this is just my version of it, but this is something that has existed. It's an inherent part of being a human. It's like you need those social interactions. We hard word for the stuff.
We wouldn't survive without sharing.
You know.
Of course we've always had conflict, we've always had struggle, but in terms of crisis, like we've had to share and we've had to come together and from smaller tribes many years ago to where we are now with so much comfort and so many people with the affluence and comfort who are without and who are suffering.
But you're right.
I think, of course there's that material side, and I do have the political conversation too, where of course you need more affordable house and of course we need to changing like the way that we kind of run our cities to like leave so many people falling through the cracks.
But that's social isolation at the sharp end, when you are already isolated, and when you are already out there and you're living on the street, it's like those things are a huge They have fundamental parts of what we all need, so for them to be discounted, it's just like there they can be everything to someone. I've met people, I've heard stories of people who are like, you know, ready to end it, or and someone bothering to have that conversation and bothering to smile with them. Like it
can be the difference. It's not a complete solution, it's not a complete answer. I know sometimes that the way that people work it is very methodical, and they want to think about kind of like seeing clear, tangible results for the work they do in this world, and like like I want change, Like I want change that happen.
I want to see these numbers reduced.
I want to see a number of people dying on the street each year, like reducing the time here on this earth, trying to get more people inside and kind of looked after.
But in the meantime, I'm like, what can I do today? What are the things I can do today?
Because I can certainly walk out into this world and be, like, you know, when I'm able, like spend a bit more time with people, be more aware of one another, as you said, like those simple things that smile that how are you?
That's like the.
Value of that for me is just it's so huge, and I see it played out in the work I do all the time.
That also makes me think about how dramatically your relationship to concepts like success must you know, have changed over
this whole journey and the meaning of impact. And you mentioned the word value, like I think one of the stories that resonated very very strongly with me from the book was the family who's living on skid row in la and how even headed they sounded about wealth being like just so far from the be all and end all of happiness and fulfillment, and how joyful they were that, you know, the positives they could find in their life that they had each other, that they had a roof
over their head, albeit that it was a tent on skid row, that they could see what they had to be grateful for, versus someone who didn't have a tent and who was out on the street. And I think concepts that a lot of us face in our day to day lives, like the glorification are busy and like that, you know, relentless forward movement for success that doesn't necessarily
make anyone happy. How has that all changed for you over your journey and how have you funded yourself having left your job as well, like to keep going on this mission? And now what does impact and success mean?
I'm a victim to all of those things as well, Like that to do list in my mind to put up post on my Instagram a couple of days ago and on such a release which was like getting redal with my own mental health sometimes and realizing that to be really honest, the last couple of months, like I've had that sort of fictitious to do list, where like sometimes in my head each day, like my success has been making sure I do everything that I've said I'm going to do in my head by the end of
the day. And if I don't then like it's not been such a good day, and days blended into weeks, and weeks blend into months, and I sort of came down the line a couple of months into like this, I love how you said yes, like glorifying like this word busy, and like I'm busy. I'm productive if I'm
doing all the things I need to do. And I came out at the end of this this full on busy couple of months doing that feeling awful, like feeling really terrible, like not available for people, not available for myself. So I still today like doing the work that I do.
I have to check in with that.
So I think it's rather than feeling pessimistic about the concept that it's going to keep coming back at you, it's like, I think it's actually positive because we are all beings that, like society's version of what success and busy is, sometimes really matters because you need to pay the rent and you need to have the things around you that make you feel comfortable, and you might have a family as well, like I want kids one day, and I want to be able to make sure they
can do the things that they want to do as well. So like these material things matter conceptually to like to have the things that we have to whatever your version of success looks like, and that would be different for everyone, Like my version of.
That is going to be way different than another person's.
But buying into that why is a really dangerous game because like somewhere inside you, there's somebody who longs for the things that like we haven't evolved past, which is like feeling purpose in this like life, feeling like you're involved in things that like are authentic to you and who you are, and like again that's just everyone's version
of that is so different. But for me, I just know that when I leave those things by the wayside, like I'm always a couple of months away from getting my head in a tangle and having to like really take some time out, and I feel that we can help each other through that, and like it's culturally it
does take a bit of a shift. I'm not saying that I'm against like everyone crushing it to do everything they need to like become successful, but I'm trying to have this conversation as lots of people are online, just to recognize like these human moments, these interactions, like being vulnerable, sharing in this way, it's super important. It's super important
because the price is really high. And then on that point, I suppose, of course the people that I'd meet on a days day basis, men and women who are experience in homelessness, Like it's one way that I see that we can help people, or that it's just radically just could be so much different than it is right now, because what help looks like for somebody at the moment I understand is like getting them inside, getting them shelter,
getting people fed, getting those basic needs map. But it is incredible to me sometimes thinking about like this side of the conversation, this reconnection to like who you are, when I see that actually those things link up. Someone give them a couple of years and they'll be in a way better place, you know.
So it's really important that politically.
We had this kind of conversations too, Like it's becoming so much more popular as conversation of our collective mental health and how it's all intertwined. But like, I know that when you reconnect someone to who they are, like there's so much better chance for them to successfully like get back on their feet quote unquote. Then you might just give someone like a house and some food in the fridge, and they're still stuck inside like with all
the same problems as they had before. So I just think like this part of the conversation is something like we're getting to now, and I have a lot of optimism to to sort of with the work that I do, continue it and try and like sort of create that change with the things we're talking about from above as well as from ground level.
I think something that I really liked reading the book was that you do keep in contact with a lot of the people who you meet. You don't just meet them once, take a photo and kind of, you know, lose tight. Do you actually follow them through often to a really wonderful progression in their journey since the last
time you saw them. Are there any sort of moments that just pull your heart strings every time that you think about that, you know, the people who have stuck out or the moments that have stuck out in the last kind of five years.
Well, in the front of the book, I dedicated to someone who's now in Paris and his named Sedrik.
And getting the book back.
I think I thought of him straight away because he's somebody I used to go back and see back and forth on the streets, and he was always surprised when I turn back up to see him again, because his mind was blown that I'd get a train to Paris across from London and I had friends there as well, but I'd come and see him and it was like it was beautiful because whenever we spent time together, it reminded me of how important it is to be aware that you could make a new best friend at any
point in your life. And that's someone He taught me a lot, because even though I'd started this journey, and even though I'd been going out and meeting people, I think I was probably still looking at those early interactions as like helper and someone who needs to be helped. He was the first person I really met who just like we became buds, like real good friends, and we met on like lots of levels and yeah, he's someone
unfortunately who is not with us anymore. He passed away, and I dedicated the book to him because it was you know, I mean, whatever your belief system and whatever you want, I just know I sort of can hear his chuckle and his kind of like I can imagine the conversation would have if I brought him this book and showed him.
That he's in it, and I know he'd be really happy.
So, you know, that's the kind of interaction that like, he always reminds me that with every new person I meet, it could be someone who's your best friend and who you're really going to get on with. It's not about helping quote unquote just helping people.
It's about like connecting. It's always been about connection for me since him.
I cried when I read that he passed away.
I was so devastated.
Oh yeah, it was really tough for some people, I see.
And it's important to include that in there, because it's estimate that about nine hundred and sixty people died on the streets last year in the UK in twenty twenty, and actually I think the three to five percent of
that only a county was coronavirus related. The elephant in the room that I'd like to address here, which I think is substance misused and drugs and alcohol that surrounds zonnessness like it is I know, from the outside, like really difficult to understand, and some of these behaviors I know, like being really honest, I know it can look pretty ugly from the outside, and I I would like to say that, like, whatever your stance on all of this stuff,
like the people that I see, to address that quickly, Like it's not recreational drug use.
People aren't having a good time, people.
Aren't aren't using to go out and party. It's always like masking or to cope with something.
Either.
The surroundings are being there a lot of the time, until you're out on the street and you're trying to get to sleep onto some cold railway bridge at at whatever time in the morning and someone passes you something. I mean, I'd like to also think, you know, what
would you do in that situation. But the point I want to make is, whatever people's stance on, say homelessness as a whole, I think we can all agree that it shouldn't be normal to see this many people on the street, and to a point earlier, like you know, to live in a city where people are dying on the street each year, people who are so far removed
from this issue and maybe live with such effluence. Surely, even in that situation, if you bring some friends to a city to show them around Sydney or London or wherever you live, you'd probably prefer like for their to not be visibly people directly suffering in front of you. So I just think any way you approach this, I think we can all agree that we don't feel like it's okay to or it shouldn't be normal to see this stuff and to leave so many people sometimes not
making it through the winter. So I just I like to talk about this stuff and usually put positive like which is I know it's difficult and with someone like Sedriek for me in the book, it's really hard to process someone like.
That who could be with us now.
But it spurs me on to keep doing what I'm doing and realize that, like, there's so much more we can do, but it will take more. I think more action on a street level, and I think through kindness and through positivity and through telling stories in this human way. I never point the finger in the work that I'm doing. This isn't about saying we should feel guilty and do more. It's about finding the things you really love to do and trying to maybe provide that for people you know
in your surroundings, in your community where you live. And honestly, for me, this isn't random acts of kindness. Like I don't believe it's random to be kind to someone. I believe it's like part of who we are. And I think that's also an awesome concept to go out and be the whatever kindness looks like to you. But for me, do something nothings like these are four words that represent this to me. But this is just what we all
do on a day to day basis. It's just providing it a little bit more for people who need it.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
I love that idea that it's not random, it should just be kindness in all directions.
Or yeah, I mean come on, yeah, Like I need that too as well. Like honestly, like when I'm having a bad day, I'm sure you can relate to this, right.
You must have had that moment before where you're just like in your own head, in your own bubble, You're in the tunnel vision, like I'm annoyed about something and I'm like sort of scraping through this day and someone does something for you and it's not maybe as obvious as someone like buying a coffee in the queue in front of you and it being like kind of this, it's more just holding the door open smile, letting you someone on the bus like just like giving you their
eyes and like smiling and like nod in their head something like that. It just wakes you up from your own kind of like bullshit. Sometimes think it's just it's just like it's healthy, like we need that, all of us.
One of my best circuit breakers when I'm just having a shit time and usually for no reason I'm just in my own head about something, is I try and give someone a compliment, like find something that I like about what their lipstick is or whatever. And you cannot stay in a bad mood.
When you give.
Someone an unsolicited compliment and watch the change in their demeanor, it's actually the best possible thing you could do. It's almost selfish, like I do it for myself to get out of a bad mood. It takes so little to make someone's day, and I think, you know, even if you can't necessarily sit down and give them a haircut, you can make someone's day with a smile or a conversation.
What are your big visions for what's next for this movement, but more importantly for people listening who want to get on board or to help support you in some way. Or bring to do something for nothing movement, you know to the Australia Insures again, what are some of the ways we can support you?
You know, it is a social movement in the sense that like this isn't a charity or not for profit, Like this isn't about coming to me to like then work at you know, like volunteer in your community. There's no like what I mean is there's no structure in some ways. I mean, based on this podcast and talking about my life, maybe that makes a lot of sense. But it's an open space for It's an open space for people to be able to use this however you want.
The hashtag exists to highlight people in your community who are doing something cool and talking about it to inspire others. It might be yourself. It might be the skills that you have, like tangible skills of course, like I know for me, Wow, a heck, isn't that a great way?
Isn't it lucky? Like You've got this really tangible skill?
But no, it's everything's a vehicle for this connection, this conversation that I've spoken about. I mean, yeah, okay, we've had yoga teachers, volunteer and rehabilitation centers, young people, students going to have lunch with senior citizens who don't have any family to come in and have lunch with them, all that kind of thing. But the thing is it's very important to like, you know, all these things. Whatever it is, Like, I could talk about an organization in
Sydney Pass It On Clothing. My friend Chris wag who set up it's amazing. Basically it's transpired from him and his girlfriend looking at their wardrobe of clothes that they didn't wear anymore, and it's like to go and drop off clothes to like up shop and like be able to like put it outside. But that's great, but it's not all that personal. So he decided to set up these rails around Sydney where it started as one Thursday night and four years later they've become this organization where
they have haircuts, now they provide food. They always set up in some mine's place in the middle of Sydney and people.
Know that they're week in, week out.
They've got so many people involved because now they know after having that conversation and not only giving people clothes, but showing them the mirror and making sure they're really fixed up and looking good with like decent clothes that get they get these donations from really really nice places, and it's like the conversations they have now they know how to help people more. They've got to know people. They're more invested in their community than they were before.
And rather than be on the outside looking in, it's just not finding ways where you go, Like you can become active in your community. You can become someone who is aware of people. And honestly, the change, the personal change that comes with that, as you said, kind of is selfish in aware and it's cool to recognize that,
and it's got bad connotation, but it's not. It's like you could say to most people, like fast forward a few years time and you could know like more people in these busy cities we live in, like more people around you and what they need, and they know what you need. It's just taking it back a bit to like how we used to live before, we used to live in smaller communities. Well, we did all have a wrong,
we did all know about each other's problems. So you know, we first forwarded to like these places where we've got so much kind of like access to everything, and more than anything, we're so distracted, and I think we need to just reel it in and realize that we can all become more part of each other's lives. And I think finding your version of that can look like many things.
I often say to people, write down three things you really love and that you enjoy, and then next to that, write down parallel, like three areas that you like to change in this world, maybe directing your community, and try and join the dots and keep looking at them until you do.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
I kind of describe finding your yay as that as well, like writing down the things that give you that feeling that you had when you were a little kid where you just couldn't help but say the word ya because it makes you so excited. And we are really distracted. And I think we do also think that looking after ourselves, particularly when you're in a job like yours, which is very giving and altruistic, that then material things like you know,
massage or a bath or rest seem very vacuous. And I can imagine you would feel guilty watching Netflix rather than going out and transforming someone's life, because you do have the opportunity to do the latter, So why would
you kind of waste time doing the former. But that's why this last section is important and maybe my f it's called playta and it's the things that we all do that aren't related to our job and completely separate from our vocation, but that make you forget what time it is that are purely for your joy, because I don't think you could fill up anyone else's cup if you aren't, you know, filling up your own in some way.
So you mentioned music is one of them. Are there any other things that you do just to find joy in between?
Yeah, honestly, And I love the concept and the reason why, you know, obviously in that new podcast, it's like it's so important to remember that curiosity and that feeling that gave you that as a kid, and like, I think without that just on that point, like I've had to learn, especially more so the last couple of years, I've got so much better at that.
I can't go out and be available to people unless I.
Have that moment you're talking about, which is forgetting the concept of time and being so kind of like, yeah, just filling up your cup.
In that way.
And for me it is music and it is like guitar definitely also football as well is a really important one for me, Like I've gone through stages. It's because it's the best escapism. I have a really good relationship with I support a couple of teams here and it's like watching football like getting together with people and doing that because.
I used to play football when I was younger.
It reminds me of what you're talking about, which is that summers hot, because it was actually.
Sometimes it is hurt in the UK this summer.
I remember, like maybe it's nostalgia, but like hot summers are like going out all day and playing football with my mates and coming back with like grasslands and my trousers and like you just let yourself go. And for me, obviously it's different watching it, but it's like it's something about that's pure escapism, which is beautiful too. But honestly,
music always is the main one. Music and and and and that is something that you know, whether I'm plugged in with an electric guitar with friends it's or whether I'm just at home with an acoustic it's like it's the one thing where I've got calm app and I meditate and I do what I can each day to be able to like center myself when I can.
A lot of the times I forget.
I don't to pretend I'm like here, like got it down, you know what I mean. But yeah, but it's like I'm trying to do those things as best i can each day, that morning ritual, but whatever it is in your week.
For me, it's like you have.
Music is like something where whether I'm listening to music or whether I'm playing, it's like I forget it or I just like I'm in that space. And honestly, though what it hasn't always been easy. I've burnt out like I had. Your body will tell you things if you
don't stop and do those those things for yourself. Like I've had moments where I've spent so long doing the doing bit of this and going out and thinking that I can't spend any time for me, like filling up that cup, and my body literally stopped me, like actually stop me, and well, like help will stop you if you don't spend time like recognizing that. And I've just
tried to get better recognizing the signals. Now you've got to recognize the signals and realize that it seems counterproductive sometimes to stop and do whatever your absolutely nothing is or your escape isn't it is, But it's actually the complete opposite, stopping for guests and like the best kind of guests so you can get back on the road and do.
Your thing totally.
I think even if your body didn't stop you, like when I'm not here, even if you love your job, you're not here to just work and die like that would be just such a gross waste of this beautiful life and leisure and play has always been part of what life is all about. But also on the wellness front, if you don't make time for wellness, the quote that I love here is if you don't make time for wellness, your body will force you to make time for illness.
And that's one that I'm always like, oh my gosh, I.
Know, right, I know, and you know hopefully from that like you're right, I immediately get the pang of like, yeah, it's okay to almost be like it is an urgent concept because don't let that be. I know, there's some things we can't control in our life, but like, do the best you can to, like to work out your life before you get there, like we do. We do have more time and week I know we're up against it, Like I know, like it's not always easy to like
to feel like you have those moments. But I think when you stop, and from my own experience, when I've ground to a hold and then I have to take a week, you realize that everything works out like eventually, like I try and work a lot, and I really enjoy the work I do, But sometimes don't you feel now we're some in contact with every bleap of our phone.
We weren't supposed to always be this available, Like, we weren't supposed to always have had like not a moment to ourselves to like feel like we're not getting back to someone. So it's like these things are really new concepts. Honestly, when you get to nature and you put your phone down for a bit or whatever version it is of you, it's just like I just know that I'm immediately hit with these troops where I'm just like, of course, no wonder you feel stressed. I wonder if you feel tired.
You know, you just you just needed a day off, you needed a few days off.
I literally just came back last week from a week in the Northern Territory with some indigenous elders who they don't have a concept or a word for time in Aboriginal culture, because you're just supposed to wake up at sunrise and go to bit at sunset. And this concept of scheduling is something they really try to make us surrender.
And so we didn't have charges, so our phones died on the first day anyway, and we didn't need to know what time it was, because the sun will kind of tell you if it's morning or afternoon, and they told us where we needed to be by sunset. And I've actually had a really really hard time coming back to this, you know, kind of forced structure that we've
imposed on ourselves. Of course, you need some in the life, you know, to keep up with the life that we have, but you realize time is really a construct, and so is deadlines, and so is urgency unless you're a heart surgeon or a paramedic, which neither of us are, so you know, things can wait.
Do you feel on that first day?
First of all, there was that anxious panic of phones ran out and what am I going to do?
And then how long did it take you to go?
Interestingly, it usually takes me a couple of days, but I think I was so overloaded and ready by the time it was inevitable, Like by the time we lost signal, I didn't even bother trying anymore. I just turned it off, I turned it onto airplane mode, and I just didn't look at it five days and it was such a luxury. But it makes me realize, Oh, it was amazing, But now I'm like, I don't want to be human in real life society.
It's cool though, because you know you'll start doing things, you know you'll get back to it, but keep it. And I'm so glad that you have a platform to be able to talk about and spread that message because like, honestly, it's just as real and just as much as a reality as being in this.
Scheduled world, you know.
And I think that I know I feel the same as you, which is like I've had a few days off recently where I was just phone less, and I can think back to a time a couple of years ago when I was five days on a hike without a phone, and honestly, I literally turned into a kid again. I was the kind of renoticing things because when you're left with nothing to look at and nothing to pick up and.
Stare at these screens, it's like you just do that child does come out, it's still there.
And what's really beautiful about that is like we're all searching for that, We're all like constantly search into like that that freedom and that beauty, and it's in us, it's within us. It's just whatever you can do to recognize it. In fact, you know that. That is the one thing I would say, it's everyone should allow at least a few phone off days of the year, like maybe they're together in a few days straight, which is beautiful.
But that's one thing that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of info about that, but how incredibly powerful that is for your well being and bringing those truths back with you for the rest of the year so liberating.
Now I'm like, I want to I just want to be a bush woman.
Like.
You've got a very you've got a very good energy, You're very good. You brought some of it back.
I appreciate you.
Well.
Just to finish our second last question, three interesting things about you that don't normally come up in conversation, because I imagine you do get asked a lot of similar kinds of questions about the fascinating work that you do, but what are just some random things like favorite biscuit or you know, weird habits or party tricks.
Okay, oh yeah, all right, all right, well okay, so I mean no, I've said biscuit. It's like very much in my head of like remove the one of the the biscuit one because I don't have that.
But I think you're British you have to have a favorite biscuit.
Honestly, maybe that's one of my facts I'm going to start off with, Like, here's one around the thing I don't like biscuits. Cup of tea and biscuits, okay, is not a British thing that always goes with tea and biscuits. The cup of tea alone is amazing, don't be you have to be dipping a biscuit in that. I don't like the way that when you dip a biscuit in you end up with the crumbs of the biscuit in.
Yeah. No, like so no sugar and tea, So why would I be?
Why would it be? I wouldn't be differing in a biscuit. So that's one interesting fact.
What type of tea though.
Oh tea is the Yorkshire tea ulture tea bag so yorksire tea bag, a little bit.
Of oat milk, okay, oh oat.
Yeah, I don't do cow juice.
A little bit of oat milk, but no, that's that's kind of like. But I'm not gonna lie obviously and say like I'm all over the vegan cake. Some someone told me becoming vegan was like this way of like, I've pretty much been hungry since becoming vegan a couple of years ago, and I haven't. Honestly, I said to my joke with my girlfriend, I'm like, I've been hungry ever since. But it's but it's amazing and I'm happy.
But one thing no one tells you is that you can still go really mental and junk food, Like you can still go hardcore.
All the cakes are still available, all the snacks still available.
It's almost even worse. Anyway, I digress. But the one fun fact is talking to you in Australia. I once got to Australia for ten pounds shut up. Yeah, so I basically I Q. It was the first time I came over when I was twenty one and I heard someone over talking like in a conversation and the queue behind me about this sale that this travel agent's had on where they were like basically putting people on a
plane to Australia for ten quick. The first thirty people who like went to travel agents in Bristol.
So I went to camp.
From that moment I left, I went and camped outside of this place, and I I was one of the first like twelve people in Q so I managed to get this like ten pound ticket to Australia.
So that was pretty cool.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it was amazing. And it's when I came out first to one.
I was there for like a year or whatever, and I worked around So maybe that's another good fun fact. I used to live in Australia in this town which I has to have beautiful memories of which is people always go oh you lived there and it's in Lismore in New South Wales.
Sure yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone does that reaction and goes ah, I think it's the loveliest, most beautiful, awesome town and Nearbyn Bay and all like the hip stuff.
Fine, that's great, but like that area of Northern Rivers is like so unbelievably beautiful. The little towns and the little markets of a weekend I have like such fond memories of living in Australia.
I don't know, another fun fact.
Maybe No, that were great.
That was three amazing, right, Yeah, yeah.
They were great. I lived in Lismo for a year.
I lived, yeah, for basically whole year because a random it took me there because like work. I knew my girlfriend at the time, her sister lived nearby and lived in the interland between like Barron Bay and Lismore, and it was.
Just like it was the place where I ended up working.
I worked in a little cafe there and I was just like I honestly I was.
It was such a beautiful time.
I was very at one with like working and doing kind of like what I was doing there. But when I say to people there always just like find it funny because it's just like quite a small town. It's very sleepy, but like had this cafe and this record shop and this beautiful arts center, and yeah, I'd like to go back there.
It's kind of like being like, oh, I came and went to Bluffborough or something like.
It's random.
I know, I know, but don't get me wrong. I did.
Since since then, I've gone back and I've done Sydney and Melbourne, I've done, like being in most cities and lots of amazing beautiful Like obviously Australia is such an incredible place, so I've done a lot of it now, but like I just still think like, yeah, that's my place member for moved back, that's where that's well come.
And very last question, what's your favorite quote?
Okay, my favorite quote is Joe Stroma from The Clash, and.
It's the punk rock means amazing manners to your fellow human beings. And the reason why that quote is so important is that for me as a punk growing up and that being my ethoss, it was the spiky hair and the Mohicans and the studs and everything that's the image of punk and the zips, all everything you see from the outside. Once the door opens and you're letting it just means being together and being cool to the people around you. And there's so many movements in history
that have created that. But like, without that side of it, without people putting their arm around me, like I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today.
I love that.
I think you are such a wonderful advocate for never judging anything from just what it looks like on the outside and making the effort to sort of peel back the layers and see what's underneath.
Thank you, sir, I really appreciate you.
It's been so nice to chat to you today, honestly, and like I said, like we'll have to do this again in the future, maybe in person.
Yeah, thank you so much.
You've just been absolutely wonderful and everyone should absolutely get a copy of Do Something for Nothing. It is out very soon and I'll pop a link in the show notes so you can.
All grab a copy.
Thanks so much.
Goodness me, this one inspired me and reminded me that despite the challenges and suffering that exist in the world, there is so much love and kindness out there too. Please help the do Something for Nothing movement spread as far and wide as possible by sharing this episode and tagging at Joshua Coombs along with any takeaways or thoughts that you've had. Hugh mentioned last week that he was blown away by all of your messages and reflections. There
were hundreds of them, so please keep it up. It means so much to our guests and to me. I'll pop the link to Joshua's new book in the show notes and highly recommend that you grab a copy for an uplifting read. Hope you're having an amazing week. To my dear Victorians, Hope you are surviving the week and are seizing your yeay