I am no longer present for things that make me feel like shit // Tully Humphrey and Sarah Pasini

These are the yays of our lives. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is the platforms to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore, the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day

Hey, what's up?

I decided this is my first time on CZA.

It's both of your first times on CBA, and I feel like like it's obviously because we have our own show where usually on the other side, I kind of feel like it's fun.

Yeah I'm a little bit nice top side.

It actually is, but thanks for having us.

It's such a pleasure you guys. I was just saying, these two are like my favorite old married cup slash long lost sisters separated at the womb.

Ever, literally we like fight like cats and dogs. But it's like we have obviously the show together, we have a business together, we're best friends. We've got the same friend groups, so you can imagine.

And we're also living together right now, so that's a fun time, are you.

I was like, are we living together? Sorry?

By saying that, I'm probably the only person that could live.

It's true unless it was like a boyfriend or something, I could not live with anyone else, like, because we obviously travel quite a lot, well pre COVID and like a lot, and because I think because we've traveled so much, you just get so used to their habits. Like I know when I'm pissing Sarah off, she knows when I'm pissing. We kind of go our separate ways, and we're very similar. Don't get like not similar. We're not similar, but the way we live is very similar.

You're also the same star sign, right, so that's kind of a day apart.

That's Yeah. So Sarah the fourteenth of July and I'm the fifteenth of July and nineteen eighty eight, born in the same hospital, but didn't know each other. It's so weird.

So you guys are meant to be.

Yeah, it's crazy. So maybe we are long lost sisters that just fight a lot. Yeah, I don't know, I was saying.

Before we had a therapist on our show this week, and it's made me realize we might need to go to couples therapies. We're not' not like being a real couple, but like God, we spend too.

Much time to get but we have to get to know ourselves before we do that. The theme of the show was you've got to know yourself before dating people. So that's our next job.

Well, you know what the funnest thing is about you too, though, I feel like you could answer the questions for each other, like you know each other so well, you could totally do that.

We should probably try that in this episode.

I know you very well.

I do that a lot. Really. Yeah, we look.

At menus often. We're like, I know what you choose on, like, go for it. She's like, you choose out stuff like that, I know one hundred percent.

Yeah, Okay, what would you both order for breakfast if we're out? If we're if we were over the road.

First, I'll go you.

Tully would get poached eggs with avocado halluomi and possibly mushrooms depending on the venue, depending on the venue.

Yeah, because I can't have garlic and some like like fested with garlic. Sarah would halloomy poached eggs, toast and greens. Yes, that's it. Sometimes avocado, but not much.

Tully depending would be if she felt like bread should get bread but ninety yeah the time, it would be sands bread without.

Bread, honoring if I'm hungover.

Okay, so it depends, like what's coming up. Given you got a Tullilu shoot tomorrow, I'd say no.

Bread, no bread, no bread. No, but actually no, I take that back. I do eat a lot of um butter, but yeah, no bread. Yeah, the abs need to be popping the floating.

Speaking of Tullylu, before we actually jump in today's episode, can you give us a little bit of background. I love jumping on Curious Conversations recently so that audience knew you guys really well. But to introduce you to the CZA audience, tell us about your background.

Yeah, so my background, I can't say you can tell about Teali's background. Brand and I have an active well, Sarah and I have an active web brand. But previously to that, I launched the active web brand. I finished school in like year ten because I was Anarexic and had depression, and I kind of thought that because I didn't finish school, I didn't really have any direction, and the only thing that I could do was start a business because I just thought I was literally these are

I'm a much more academic and science background.

How funny is that? I'm like, I'm dumb number really, So I think.

That's what's great about you too. You complment each other so well because you do have such different stories.

Yeah, we know each other's sides of the business, like hours, so Tail doesn't cross.

Over to numbers. She's like, don't get it, don't talk to me about it too, but I just don't understand. And all the design is all her stuff.

So I finished exercise science, majoring nutrition, and then I worked for an AFL club and then I moved overseas to.

Italy and I knew you then know when you went to Italy or was that the first time? First time?

And then I worked over for the AIS over in the euro base there with cyclist did you that's it? And then came back and then I went back over to Europe and I moved to Milan the second time, and I hated it. And basically we're on the phone each day to one another, and I was like, just come home and like, so I came home, worked from my dad who runs a business, and helped tell on the side, and then became full time.

Gig. Oh my gosh, how long has it been full time? Six years? Yeah, since two this year, so I can be about six years. Yeah, it's been fucking hard. Not gonna lie not with you. But like the business, it's business, I mean sometimes but like, no, the business, it's businesses are hard. That's so hard.

And we often say that we're like geez, like sometimes a nine to five.

Looks real good where you can just go home and not think about work or anything because you never really do switch off. Nah, Like I often and we'll talk about this the other day. I'll often wake up every day, not every day, but I'll be like, fuck, it'd be so much easier just working nine to five. Yeah, honestly, But then again, we love it so much as well, so you wouldn't. And we're probably not the kind of people that would work nine to five.

Do you imagine the three would not work? It's like eleven thirty on a Thursday right now.

But do you know what the amazing thing about being nine to five would be getting paid to go on holiday like that would be fucking amazing. But then we do have the flexibility to do stuff like this or like and say you went away to Queensland last week, like you do have the flexibility to do stuff like that, which is amazing. But yeah, and.

Tully Lou has taken you guys all over the world, Like I really like you. I think the life cycle of the average small business starts his five years and you're will and truly over that hump. So of course you've gone through that cycle of.

Like fuck this, I hate what did I do? And I want to go back to.

A nine to five, But also you've had moments that have just like highlights that people cannot even imagine that you would have been able to do together, Like it's crazy. Was there some of the like real pinch me moments like I remember Gig had did.

Was definitely one Gigi had did was one because that was probably like the first celebrity, not Australian celebrity, that had worn talilou before and it was totally not a fluke, like I hustled for that. But it's something that I probably in the early stages of having the brand, I probably wouldn't have done because I was too scared. So that was amazing. I mean Sidney Fashion Week was fucking amazing, Like say you were there, yes, so I would say that would be another pinch me kind of moment.

What else do you I can I think cycle maybe, Yeah, that was a huge collaboration. But I remember going to meetings in New York or yes, I forgot about this, yeah, and tell like walking into Vogue and things like that, and the winter was like We're walking through this fighting at the same time, and I'm like, I was like what. I was like, Oh my god, that is not only like the biggest fashion like editor fashion start in the world.

And I was like, oh my god, are we in a movie? This is so weird. And then we went to the Vogue office. That was like a pinching moment.

Yeah, but it's fun me seeing Tally how excited she gets brought by all that fashion world.

Like I'm into it now, but it probably wasn't back there while to grow into your fashion because we're like got a fashion business even though it's active where. I think the more that those moments happen, the more you kind of get eager and wanted more and more, you get interested and stuff like that. So yeah, I mean

I think one of the most amazing things. And the thing I love about this show and you guys probably have the same, is that there are so many people in just our network or out in society that we've been part of each other's journey. Yeah, from really really early on, maybe even in some cases since before we were even part of that.

Like you guys knew me when I was a.

Lawyer, before business was even on the radar, And so to watch us all have gone through so many different chapters and like been in LA at the same time or done Sydney Fashion Week and like being there for each other.

It's so cool because you're right.

The whole theory for me of CZA unraveling in chapters. It's like, you guys are proof that we have been there since each of us were like what's Instagram? Like, yeah, can you please like make a match this movie because I've got two followers, Like, you know, we've been there for all of that stuff. And it's just so I think for Philly, really nice to sit down now and be like, WHOA eight years later, you're still here. You're still innovating and growing and like reaching new heights all the time.

You're right, And I think the best thing about us as well, and probably most of the people that we all know and hang around with, like all of our friends, like you know, we've seen you like even Brook Meredith,

It warms my heart seeing my friends want do what they want to do and seeing them grow and be successful.

At what they do. Yeah, right, totally.

Yeah.

I just want to be my friend's best cheerleader.

Yeah, oh you guy.

You guys have been like that since the start, though. I remember the first time I think Nick met you somewhere or somewhere, remember.

Yeah, And I remember when like your guys were about to launch and stuff that's so wild, and we literally because neither of us had had a job that involved anything on the internet, like nothing social media.

And I was still at the law firm full time. And it came home and he's like, oh my god, for our lunch week, I met this really famous person.

Tell oh my god, the creator of the power.

And he was like, yeah, and her mate Sarah Passini was there, and oh my god, they're gonna do a post with a match was like the most surreal moment because you were the first like famous person who was going to drink the Matcher, Like it was such a big moment.

Na.

I just like I knew you guys were so passionate about like the Matcher. So it's always and when you see people passionate and starting out, like I always like, that's a very good quality of you. You always help people out, Yeah, and especially like do you know what it's like? I think it's also because I did start a business like by myself, I had no experience, I kind of know what it's like to start a business.

So nice when crazy, Yeah, just reflect on it because you don't do that very often. Then every time I see you guys, I'm like, oh, I know, it's beautiful.

Yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. Yeah, And you just want to always like evolve, like obviously now with curious conversations and it's kind of like, Okay, what can we do next? Like that's exciting. Yeah, when we're not fighting. Yeah right right. Sorry Sarah has this saying so it's just completely off topic. She's always like, and you'll probably once you edit this podcast, you'll hear it. I don't think I've said it one. No, you haven't. Actually, She's like, yeah, right, it's so annoying,

You have many numerous habits that I'm just like, I'm silent about, but cool.

Yeah, I just I just let them out, like got booger in your yeah, okay thanks? Podcast is a visual anyway, It's fine. My booker can stay there. Sarah doesn't know. But my pet hate is she will let me walk out with that's because you order green seat and then I'm like small and then I'll hop in the car. You've been in an event all day with finish. She thinks it's so funny that I've spoken to people with green ship all in my mouth all day. Abe need to invest in That's amazing.

I love it every time. I think that's what happens. When he's a podcast. You notice all the weird like crutches that you have in the advocacy subject like for law, getting prepared for court. You do this subject where they teach you because arm undermines the power of your argument. They teach you to like swap in your brain for a particular word. And so I don't say which people think, but they tell.

That trick, say it a lot. I don't say arm a lot. Fuck. I can do it for fun, but I don't say arm a lot.

Or you just you just edit it out and no one realizes. But people often say you don't say arm, and I'm like, yeah, but pick what other words that I use? And I use those just as much, but it just doesn't sound like what do you use?

I think?

I say so, okay, so like whenever I just replace with another really jointy word, and it sounds more articulate even though it's not. You've just replaced.

Sounds time by going so.

And I also always say, and I've never said this in my life, but I've only recently noticed I say talk us through when I really when I don't know how to like bring up a topic as the next topic out of the blue, and I want to say, like, okay, let's move on to B without saying like move it along. Yeah, topic, I'll say, so talk us through the time when and that's.

My that's a nice subtle transition, I think, except that I say it like every sentence and so the next okay, so now talk us through talk What.

Are you saying? Let me do that, I think, yeah, yeah, we all have one. Yeah.

Anyway, guys, so I get you today, get yes, phone out. So quote of the A is the first section of this segment, and I asked you to bring your favorite quotes or quotes that represent what the last couple of weeks have been like for you, and then we just chat the ship about the quote.

Okay, do you want to go first out?

Yeah?

I think this quote relates to both of us. If we have chosen the same quote, I'll fucking die. I would actually have to. So one could be did you get off in it? Yeah?

I reckon, it's probably going to be the same one.

To be similar. Did you pick a Jay shirty one?

Okay either, So don't worry question. Functions prove who someone is. Worlds just prove who they want to be.

That's not mine, but that's really that's a really good way you could go. Now, that was amazing you now skill the tea. That's a good one.

Why I think it applies to both Tully and I is answering. For me, it was our dating lives.

They're they're not great at the moment. What they're great.

Our dating life is great, but it's just a little bit frustrating what we've been.

Through lately, the outcomes.

I've been ghosted recently, I'm being ghosted.

And yes, we spoke about this on the podcast she is getting.

Goost, so we've defined it. It is, in factiost.

And then do you know what happened?

A girl slipped into my d MS and was like, don't worry, he did those exact same things and ghosted me too.

Sarah didn't name this. How wild is that? That is wild? God? The Internet is a weird place. It's actually a little bit scary, but it's kind of also cool when you're like, yeah, as long as it doesn't make you upset, that's fine. Which you weren't upset about it. Oh no, it didn't shed a tear. Yeah, brutal brute.

Does describe me as a cold heart. Bit.

Sarah is such a warm person.

Maybe I should have Sarah's best friend.

She's so much nice she's like a warm person, but she's like cold, like he'll write really know you are She had admit it.

He wrote me a really lovely message, like confessing his love at one stage, and I.

Wrote okay at least it wasn't okay full stop.

I was thank you, that's all. And I was like Brook and I like another and of our friends were like, Sarah, that was so fucking like well laughing like that is so cold. He literally like the message.

Was so nice, But what am I like if someone says I love your pigion say I love it.

You don't worry. I don't think you wrote thank you.

I did write thank you, but this was the predicament. I didn't have those feels at the time.

So what is we did? Sorry? You did the awkward face too, that's awkward. She did the upside down smile. I remember now, so that's why we're like, Sarah, that's rude. She didn't just write thank you. If you just wrote thank you, I'd be like what you say? You wrote thank you with the awkward smile. That's when it got awkward. I did feel a little bit awkward to trying to do.

I was like guys in a generation where emojidn't make or break the make or break.

That's what it was.

That that's why it was cold, and so basically then he's ghosted me. That's the moral of the story.

I don't understand it now.

He professed his love though, and then like okay, you meant to go, yes, I love you too, Let's get married and like have you ever after?

Well? I did do that kind of laid down the track because and then I think I scared him.

Okay, but that's because you took your time and then he had a full through sixty and he was.

Just like, what's happening. What Sarah's mum, who was a therapist said to us on the podcast is because you made up your mind at the start that you didn't really want to friends. Yeah, and that's where he yeah. And then that's where I think he was took. Oh you know yeah. Yeah.

So it was just a whole mixed message situation and bad timing. You feel like you were hot when he was cold, and he was hol when you were cold.

What are you going to do? Like, it's the universe, it's the universe. I mean I could have told you him start, he wasn't the right person anyway. Get this.

Actually, you know what's going to be so hard for you to getting each other's approval, Like no one's ever going to be good enough for your best friend and sister was good?

Was right? I'm sorry. So my ex and I used to live together. I don't think I came there one.

Yeah, I will not have this. You will not have another person in your life.

To be fair, like, I was like, I just didn't like him, just and it turns out I was right. Just for the record, to be fair, I was like, if Sarah's happy, she's happy, but were you happy? From maybe a tiny bit you were happy, but for the rest you were Yeah, it went downhill and you she lost herself.

And that's when I was like, intervention.

She did roll and roll you. I was like, sorry, I just got excited. She gets excited just telling you. She's like creeping up the microphones, these noises. Look, you haven't been wrong, but I haven't been wrong either. But you never said anything about my ex. He was only after I didn't ask. I don't like other people's opinions because it gets in my head that's way we're different.

But you like other people's opinions. Or does she just give them to you and she just.

Gives them to me? No, do you know what, she doesn't.

Give them to me, But her actions speak louder than words.

Well, that's why the quotes about you too. If I don't like someone like, I just you know.

Yeah, but that's actually I think that's actually a good quality. Like people find it very I'm such a people pleaser that I find that abrupt and people find it abrupt. But actually it's the most generous thing you can do to be really open about how you feel, like, because then no one gets miscommunication.

Does it upset you being a people pleaser if someone doesn't like you, like, how do you navigate that?

Yes, I'm just like, how can I bear my soul to make you love me?

Yeah? I will go to the end of the earth.

Like, I've gotten really good at not caring about what people think when it doesn't really matter. In terms of like on the internet, you're always going to have trials. You can't please everyone, Like on that level, I'm really good at letting go. But in terms of like more intimate things, if someone just doesn't like me and I'm not really sure why, I'll just be like Okay, what can I do?

This is project? Make you love me? Yeah?

Yeah, I'm like that.

I'm very very sorry. I don't give a shit. I'm just like, you don't lie. We don't like me and I like who I like. But I also like that.

That's really refreshing as well, because from someone who can't do that, you're really liberated it. We all have limited time and energy. It means that you have space people you do like.

Time to learn this though liberated or like not approachable?

Oh I'm not approaching, That's what.

I don't know if that's because an exterior thing that people see on the internet or see stuff like that. But then when people start talking to me, they're like, oh my god, you're so nice. Yeah you are nice. So maybe but I have been told that, but maybe it is.

My like it's also like, is approachability of value that you care about? Because some people don't care if they're approachable or not to people who they don't know.

Do I do care? Because like, I know, if someone came up to me I didn't know them, I would always give them the time of day. And for them to think that I wouldn't that makes me upset. But then I don't care if they do or like me, it's different. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

And because you would, you would always stop and have a conversation and be absolutely delightful.

So I feel like, yeah, probably speaks more of the other person that feels like they can't approach you.

Do you think I'm just trying to give you some credit.

Just trying to soften the blow.

It's also probably as well because you are known to have a really successful brand that's globally. I've had a lot of you know what I mean. Like, I think people when they know someone already, it's harder to just approach them when.

They like Also, I'm like, you also don't know me, Like what is on Instagram is like ten percent of my life. Like, yes, okay, I'm real and vulnerable, but there's so much more to me or to my life than what's on Instagram.

Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, Baller as well, Like it's hard because you dress so cool, you have such a good fashion says no, but seriously, Like that's also tonight. No, but you can rock a big hoodie and you know what I mean. Like, I think also sometimes that's intimidating for people.

Maybe yeah, yeah, what was your quote? Can I can?

I guess topic is either go a breakup topic? Okay, then it's energy, then maybe it's both.

Actually sorry again okay, So I am no longer present for things that make me feel like shit? You can?

I just Sarah, wait one second?

Is that your second quote? Shut Is that your second second quote shut up?

Was?

Let me just get this, distance yourself from people that bring out the person you're not trying to be anymore.

That's so wild, that is crazy.

But do you know what knowing you do, it's not actually that crazy. It's actually not that crazy.

I would be surprised if we had the same quote. Why did you pick that quote? Because I just what's been going on in my life probably the last month, I have been withdrawing myself from people that suck my energy and make me feel shit as a person. And yeah, so I did that, Yeah, because I care about myself more at the moment, selfish, but care about myself more than other people because I'm a helper.

Right.

So for instance, one of our friends, like always feel like I need to help, help, help, help, and every time I help, she turns shit back on me and makes me feel like a shit person, and then I take shit on and so I'm like, no, no more time for that. I need to actually worry about myself and not get involved in that star.

Isn't it crazy though that you had to add a disclaimer? Oh, I'm sorry that sounds selfish. It's actually you're not selfish. Role like it's a fundamental thing we should do, but we already feel guilty about me, like I put myself first.

I'm so sorry I did that. Yeah, you're right, isn't that crazy?

You might struggle with this too, but I know it's something to tell and I learning about. And we have for the last couple of years as boundaries. We've always had a blurred sense of what boundaries are, and now we're actually enforcing them.

Yeah, and now people don't know how to interact.

With us because we're like manna, like, yeah, I'm letting you cross over this.

Yeah.

It's actually even harder to have boundaries when you haven't had them before, because it's like you're re teaching people. Yes, if you always had them, sorry, it's easier for people to know where they stand. But if you've gone from being really lax and go with the yeah, like people please you, which is exactly what I do. Then the day that you realized for self preservation, you have to

It's like what. Yeah. I think COVID has helped with that a little bit, like lockdown and stuff. Don't you reckon just reevaluating, Like I.

Think prioritization, I think it's done a lot for true people are realizing, like life's too short to be drawn into things that really your time and energy is the most finite resource that you have, and yet it's the thing we spend most freely without really thinking about it. Yeah, you can't get either of those things back.

One of my other things I'm trying to change is like, especially with boundaries, I'm like, instead of having to do things for others, like I have to do this for Tully, I'm like, oh, no, I want to do this for Tully because then it changes the mindset of me going into things.

Language is such a big thing. You don't think those tweaks would make a big difference. But I also do that when I get into a similar situation where I'm like, oh God, I have to go and do this job that I said yes to and I don't really want to do. If you change it to I get to do this. And I think COVID has changed that as well. It's a privilege to be able to go to work as a privilege to be able to leave your house, and you choose the flavor you kind of give that

What made you recognize to switch up your language?

Ah, I think I noticed just how much it started with busy.

It started with using the word yeah, and it.

Started with how often I found myself giving that as a response when people will say how had things been, and like, busy is not a bad thing. It means you've got lots of work, it means you've got lots of exciting things on. But then it kind of perpetuates the mentality of busy and then your rush when you like go from your car, like even parking the car to come inside. I'm like always walking fast and I realized that I was becoming busy as a lifestyle rather

Are the way that I.

Frame things and the other quote I say all the time is life is you know ten percent, what happens to your ninety percent what you make of it. But then I don't do that myself, Like I'll be like, fuck, I've got such a busy damn so tired. I don't want to do all those things. And then I'm like I should be saying what a privilege that I have a busy day, Like there are some people who have

Day a good day. Yea, even the shit days.

Are like, you know, even when you're exhausted or you're burnt out, it's because you've had lots of good things to do. They got you there, and so I just try. And I don't know just I don't know when it happened, but it did start around that whole busy conversation.

Yeah, busy is funny. And you know what, one thing that annoys me is like, yeah, we're busy, Like I think everyone's busy, like everyone's got shit going on. One thing that annoys me, And this goes back to like dating is I hate when guys are always like, oh, but like you wouldn't have time to do dinner because you're so busy.

I'm like they flip it back on it's serious.

It's like if I I'm like, okay, I'm busy, but like not as busy as everyone else, and you can make time for things that you want to do. It aggravates when people I was like, oh, but you can't like oh you can't do that today because you're just so busy, and I'm like, oh my god, it's so annoying. And apply to studio, Someone's like, oh, you don't do coffee. I'm like, oh, she walk you do Monday. I'm like, oh, sorry, Monday is like one of the busiest day is yeah, genuinely.

Important thing, yeah, like you'll make time of you if.

I'm like, it's so annoying. Yeah, I know.

Sometimes it's used in such a negative way.

I find it really like, I don't know why I get offended.

Yeah, I think it's because it implies that you don't have any kind of prioritization, even though you do put the things that you.

Actually get feel I felt offended.

What's another word where you can use cap hied sometimes really or you just say like there's a lot on it.

It was in my head and I've got a lot on at the moment.

Maybe because busy has got negative connotations. It's like just saying there's a lot on is just purely descriptive. It's like, true, there is actually a lot of stuff on, but that doesn't mean you can't fit in other things. It's just yeah, it's funny I don't know, it's just interesting. I realized how much of an impact the words you used to

I get to keep my friends safe and all those ones that went all around.

Yeah, I think in a time where we had so little control over our circumstances and what we could do each day, the only way to survive it was to change the way that you worded things like that, and that actually made a big difference because you're like, it is a privilege to have a home to stay in, and it is a privilege to have a home and a job that you can do from home, and like enough space that in our five kilometers, you know the radius, there's a cafe and there's a park. Like suddenly those

Yeah, life, I'm turning interview eight. I just how did you become so self aware?

Oh? Good question.

I think like you guys will probably have the same thing. It's every time you push the boundaries too far and it's only through. And this is why I sort of think that any theory of happiness, including CZA, you can't just be about joy. It also has to embrace the time for shitty bits, because they're the ones that show you and that teach you the self awareness that you need to have the good time. So I think it's literally been from pushing myself too fast so many times.

Own gious Yeah, yourself.

Yes, and you also, I listened to our podcast yesterday, so I literally like get to know yourself about twenty five thousand times.

Yeah, And it's true, Like, I think what you realize is so much of your earlier life is spent in the white noise, Like there's so and in our generation, we've gone from not having much in our probably primary school years to like the world exploding with noise, Like

Yes, I wish I knew this when I was younger.

Yeah, but if you did not when you were younger, you probably wouldn't have had the life experience of all the things that taught you as well.

And that's what we say now, Like, yeah, where I was gonna hate me, I'm going to say this.

We're thirty three this month, we collectively.

And I really enjoy getting older, right, Yeah.

And we were.

Out to dinner the other night we saw these young girls and I was like, you could not pay in my twenties.

Again, also at it wouldn't pay myself to be in my head when I was a young like the things used to go on in my head, like I was still kind of probably a little bit like mentally unstable with like an eating disorder and stuff, and oh what was going on in my head? No way, there's so much anger, not taste, so much mess. Oh you were not.

Though?

I kind of feel like there's so much social pressure around oh your thirties, like yeah, old, and like my biggest reflection when I turned thirty was fear of what was going to happen because everyone was like, oh my god, you're turning thirty. Yeah, But actually the biggest revelation was this has been the best acad of my life so far because you just drop all the you just shed all that shit of your twenties and you just know who you are.

I feel like a little bit more stable, I would say.

And you don't care what that costs you anymore. I feel like you're like, I'm going to be who I am, and like if that cost me certain people, then I didn't want them anyway. And if I gain new people, then they're the new people. Like you're Yeah, it's weird, but I feel like this has been really liberating. And people say the same about your forties, like you even more just come into like this is who I am. I'm going to live my life exactly how I want to.

But I got through old photos and I was like, oh, that's that phase.

That's and you can see, like I who I was like hanging out with I dress the same?

Is it?

Like I needed to be a chameleones and that people pleasing thing. I took it to like such extremes of like I'd just be whoever I was with, like who because I was like, oh, I just do whatever makes everyone happy, Like that's the easiest.

But in saying that, you've probably picked something from that group, something from that group, and then it's molded to you to who you are today.

Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?

And I think we also like the most exciting thing about being around in this day and age is that you're not You're no longer expected to be the same person. So it's actually okay to evolve every couple of years and you don't need to Like I think people have this idea that finding your purpose or even like seizing your yave, that's how you want to say it is this static place that you're going to arrive at one day and then you live the.

Rest of your life in that happy place.

But the more I've embraced it is like it's going to look different every phase, and.

Who knows what it's going to look like at the next phase.

Even next month. I'm like, I don't know what's going to suit my life then or my energy and attention because like the world is not the same month to month anymore, which is nerve wracking, and the uncertainty is like stressful, it's also exciting. You could be anyone, Like I'm sure you guys have gone from like with Tollylou for example, with MATCHA, I went from having like a five year plan. I don't have a five month plan now because who could know what was happening in five months.

I try not to have like plans like that. I know in business and stuff, they say you probably shouldn't. We get asked all the time, like where do you want to be in like five years, and like we have like a rough idea and we're both pretty similar in what we want. But like I've just learned to just kind of go exactly what you said. Things changes so quickly that we just kind of go and we've been so lucky that shit just falls into our lap.

Maybe yeah, don't reckon, Maybe we're just blessed hashtag.

Pleas I don't know, Like I know we probably should have I mean, like we do have plans, like marketing plans and like we know what stuff like that, but like as a long term plan, like we no, but we do kind of. But I'm like, but we do, but we don't. Like it's not in writing, it's not in writing.

But we've had this discussion, like our long term goal will be like how how good would it be if like majority of women had one pair of Tullulu leggings in their closet? Yeah, like that's an ultimate goal of ours.

Yeah yeah, But isn't it interesting? I feel like when you if you had been you know, you said things falling into your lab, if you've been so rigidly stuck to a particular plan that was like written down, there's no but there's no room for those things to go into your lab, and you wouldn't recognize them if they did arrive, because you'd be like you push away everything that it's not that plan.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I feel like once upon a time, rigid planning helped you soundtrack, and it's still important to it, except of course, like otherwise you wouldn't have stock. Yeah, true, But like being open minded and like, again it's such a cliche word, but surrendering has been such a valuable skill over the last eighteen months because you don't really you can't control so much, so being open to things

I would say, we're pretty chill, Like we're chill when it comes to business, like maybe and you know what, sometimes, and we've had this discussion over the last few months, I find it frustrating that we are so chill, Like you watch other brands might have come up after us, Like obviously we're probably one of the longest standing other

I also think sometimes when you look at stuff like that, a you're looking at the outside of what you see from those businesses, what it is. You don't know what it's been there, like you, Yeah, you don't know what it costs them to get there. But I also think all the time, like, what has it allowed you by having that chill attitude to achieve in your lives, like not just your working lives and not just in the business, but in your overall.

Life less stress?

Yes, And I actually have come to think, like often I had this with Matter and I still sometimes have this with Czam, like.

Oh, there are podcasts who started like a year after me. You've got like double the downlods and blah blah blah.

But I look at what it costs them to do that, and that quote of like if anything costs you your piece, it's too expensive for me. The trade off of having more flexibility over my time and not smashing myself like I used to is actually worth more to me. Like you can't have both, you can't have. Some people appear like they can have both, but often it's like the sacrifice that it took them they've had, not had things that you guys have been able to enjoy by doing that, Yeah, to get there.

Yeah, you're right, we've lived a pretty good life, oh one hundred percent. But like, definitely, I wouldn't say our life is stressful. No, I mean it can, you know, like same with everyone. Life can be stressful, but I wouldn't say our business is stressful, which is amazing and we've.

Had amazing growth the last few years.

And the other thing I always talk about, like in the CZO book, is that micro macro thing, Like we judge our lives so much based on the macro of what it sounds like or what it looks like in comparison to the rest of the landscape, but actually the only thing that matters is micro, which is how you feel every single day. And if you feel good and unstressed most of the time, like that, what could be more valuable?

Yeah?

Yeah, I say. The only time I think we get stress is when you're just overwhelmed with a not gonna use word busy, but like we've got a lot going or something like that, and you're like, shit, I actually have a lot to do, but it wouldn't be a stress that I'm like I can't sleep and you can't function. But it's so funny you say that before about like the outside and stuff, because we're talking about this the

Us as people, I think we we could have benefited from being having all go yeah, our more vulnerable conversations, yeah, and been like and you know.

By us being a little bit more vulnerable and not letting our ego in the way, maybe we open up to someone that day and be like, you know, actually we're not doing very well, and maybe that might have opened us to an opportunity of an investor, or an opportunity of like a stockist. But we were so like we didn't want anyone it was embarrassing. Yeah, well I was embarrassed because you don't want anyone to know, so

And speaking to other business people since becoming more honest, they're going.

Through exactly the same struggle.

You think you're the only ones going through that struggle at the time, but then you open up and you're like they're They're like, no, we've got these problems to you. Like, so then you talk and you figure out ways.

To get Yeah.

I think that's the best part of the business landscape now is that it's much more open and much more transparent. And it means that because you don't have colleagues like you really go from not you know, from being in a nine to five where you have a team and you have a really clear support structure. Even just like water, like literally water cooler chats, you have those to ventilate, Hey, feeling that day and what's ship and everyone goes, yeah,

And you do you take stuff personally? Yeah, Like I definitely do. I'm like, oh, we've only got ten thousand dollars in bank account, like a reflection of my value. Yeah, But the minute.

Someone else says me too, you're like.

Oh yeah, normal. Yeah.

Do you feel that though, in the sense when we're saying that, we're like that we're in our like mid twenties and we thought we had to project this successful business.

Yeah, but in a way, like we were like we were having celebrities in the Celebrities don't really make sales sometimes, but like we did. We had like celebrities wearing stuff. We had all this, but like, where the hell's the money? Yeah.

Actually, sometimes your biggest growth chapters that look the most fancy are the ones where your.

Cashlow was the worst. Yeah. Yeah, all the.

Time, I'd be like I literally am eating two minute noodles.

Yeah.

I know, people make jokes about two minute noodles. But some weeks were like there is no.

Cash yeah yeah, and it's like, yeah, it's you know what, it's liberating now because you're like, oh shit, like it's kind of cool to see where you are in the growth, but at the time it's actually that's when I would say it was probably the most stressful time is when you see money getting quickly drained. You're like shit, that's probably when I've probably been the most stressed in business is to do with money.

We've also changed our relationship and energy around money, like money in, money out that kind of like you accept that it's going to come back, and things like the flow ebb and flow.

And also like in business, I think it's important obviously to like, if you've got the cash is to invest money to make money. So that was something that we will always like oof, like you'd rather have it sitting there, and then we're like, no, fuck this, we need to like you know, invest money in this area because that's going to like triple our money. Yeah, but at one stage we're too scared to do that. But now we're like being smarter and maybe that does to do with age.

It's so and also just like progression, like it's a different chapter because you've been through one chapter and seeing that like that actually that scarcity like I need to hold onto it in case next month I can't pay the bills. I think, like, yeah, it comes with experience.

Yeah, wow, is what the next phase looks like. Yeah, but that's so exciting.

I love this so much because like in you know, two, three years or five years or whatever, we'll sit down again and like be like remember that last chat, were just like this is.

Seriously.

I had a conversation with my brother not that long ago and I was like, oh, I'm getting a bit overwhelmed, like we're getting to the next stage in the business, and I was like, I kind of feel out of my depth because I don't know. And he's like, but you don't know, Sarah, but you will learn it. And it's like that means you're growing, Like I feel like you actually go through real roller coasters of like coasting or you know exactly that you turn out to work

It just feels shit. At the time, I said that because a couple of months ago we were talking about the business. I'm like, Sarah, like I'm flat, like not motivated. I feel like nothing's progressing. Like even though it was, I just felt flat and I'm like, we need to like go to the next level, like and what is that? But I'm like I was so flat and we're just like,

Absolutely because I do a lot and it doesn't I feel like this and this is why you guys talking about it is so reassuring and actually like probably provides more value than when you're like it's going really well to people listening, is that it is a really big emotional Rollercoasters run a business, and if you look back at your emotional kind of like if you saw it as like a heart rate monitor, your emotion's going up and down versus the business's success going up and down, they're not related.

Like you could have a really.

Down week in a week where everything is gone amazingly and it doesn't make sense to you, and you're.

Like, why am I flat?

Everything's amazing, and then the next week everything shit, but you're feeling really motivated and like I've got fire in my belly, Like it doesn't have to make sense, but you just ride the wave because it's it's that's that's one of the costs. Like it's not a stable nine to five jobs, so your emotional state isn't going to be stable in nine to five. But that means you do get the highs and you do get like the lows, and it's just more dynamic because you can kind of

It's like, no, no, that's part of it. That's normal.

And even most recent we've had a couple of younger friends come to us and they're really lost.

Yeah, and we're just like I'm lost.

Every day tiles response, She's like, I don't know who I am still, it's the thing everyday, Like what you're feeling now, I feel too.

There's a ten year age gap, honestly, Like, honestly you feel lost and that all the time. It's just like but I think a lot of people that are younger like think and this has got to do with like social media and the way that this day, like this world runs is like everyone just wants shit now. And we're a perfect example of you literally have to climb the ladder so slow, like tell you lose eight years old, Like it's taken a long time to get where we are.

It is hard. We are in a really integratuity focused society, and so patience is like the one thing that we don't have a lot of, but it's rewarded over and over again.

Yeah.

Even if you were talking before about self awareness, like you want to be this enlightened human being that's like in purpose to criticism and comparison and self doubt, but like even that happens bit by bit. Yeah, and it's meant to like imagine if you were just all sortied and everything was going perfectly.

We're just so boring. Yeah, what would they do? Yeah, that's so funny because I recently went through a breakup and I spoke to our friend Christian, you know Christian Rocky and like, of course, like one of your friends that you go to, and he was saying to me, I was like, I hate this feeling like it's so shit, Like I hate being sad and like going through this.

Recognize happiness if you didn't have it.

You wouldn't appreciate it.

Yeah, it's like when people like they often say I would love summer all year, but if you don't have winter, like you don't have any cycle to your time. And so people who live like, if you look at all the big scientific discoveries or like big you know, events or innovations that come out of the world. None of them are on the equator because people there, oh it's warm all the time and they have no like cyclical nature and no time to create, hibernate and come back out,

Same every day. It's the same year. You know. I wouldn't like that as much as I hate winter. It's like the seasons because you naturally change the seasons.

And how interesting is that? Because I was like, ovidly, if I could pick to have somewher all the time, I would.

But then I'm like, but then I wouldn't appreciate.

Summer because you know, in winter when it just gets to spring, you start to smell like the.

Change and they're like, oh yeah, yeah.

You don't get that, and so they literally don't invent anything because you like they're just sleepy and warm.

I was like, seasons have a reason, actually, yeah, like that is my favorite time of the year. In the air. Yeah, you're like, oh the future, yeah, that's going to get drinks like it's fine. That's probably one of my biggest life lessons of the last year is like exactly what you said, everything's in seasons, everything's in cycles, like.

The moon comes in cycles, everything comes in ebbs.

And oh my god, I saw the funniest me the other day and I have laughed for more time than I should have laughed. But it was like lockdown one, lockdown two, lockdown three two, lock two down, lockdown, ton't get drift.

You were here. I was like, oh my god, Yeah, we shouldn't joke.

Literally, you can't go right like you have to have a lot, I.

Know, seriously, we can laugh about it while we're free.

Yeah, yeah, well, because we're like the only the whole flow, the whole country.

Turned to laugh. And let's hope it stays like well.

To finish up, guys, while we have been in freedom, but particularly as a little recommendation for anyone who isn't and who needs a little pick me up, are there any books or movies or shows that you watched recently or when we were in lockdown recently that kind of gave you a bit of a smile or a bit of a yay in your heart.

I wonder if Sarah's going to say the same things, Oh.

My god, one of you.

I don't know. So the show Love on the Spectrum season season two. Oh my god, if you don't watch that show, that is like the most heart warming ab demand. It's not funny, like, it's not hilarious funny. It's just how open and raw they are and how they say what they think. It's very cute and funny. That just endearing in the heart. That makes me feel so good. I really enjoy watching. I'm obsessed with Michael. And I'm going to say book, and it's quite relevant to what

I'm going to say I watched the film Luca.

The other night that watch that.

I watched that with my niece and one watching it through her eyes and just like the pure joy and excitement. I really loved that. But it also made me want to travel again.

Because it's Italy.

Yeah, so I really enjoyed that. And book I actually can't remember the title, but our friend Minage I bought his book recently was Open Heart or something still Connected or.

Open Heart?

But I love he's been on the show. He's amazing.

Yes.

So he's released his first book and it's a lot about like meditation, Buddhism, it's a lot about social media and the disconnectedness in our society.

So I'm finding that really interesting.

Women.

Not yet you can have it after I can say, maybe you can have something that with one. But my mom took it. I'm gonna have to get it back off her, and she's gonna read it. She won't read it.

Isn't it funny?

Though?

I feel like sometimes looking at life through children's eyes, like being around them, Like you can go a really long time if you don't have friends with kids and not be around a child, and then once you are.

Again, you're like so true. They just bring you to.

This different level, this pure joy and excitement.

And even like my sisters just had twins and I'm like five months they're so cute. They obviously like I can't really see the joy and excitement. But sometimes because they're so young, sometimes they laugh and stuff. But the one thing that I like, I love going to her house and just staring at them and I'm like, you girls are so lucky, Like you have your life ahead of you and you've got no worry in the world.

I'm like, sleep and sleep.

I'm like, all you do is eat sleep, shit, eat sleep shit. Few like literally like they're so like.

They're just unburdened, like the weight of the world.

And even like how like they make my mum and dad so happy. It's like so cute. What are your recommendations?

Oh?

TV?

So much TV, so much TV. But the problem is I'm too busy, guys, I'm too occupied. There's too much on the problem is that my big ya. And again this comes down to sell awareness, Like I figured out the things that really helped my brain disconnect and that I find really I lose time, Like that's how I measure If I forget what time it is, then I've actually had a break.

Yeah. I like that.

Yeah, but the problem is they're all like hectic serial killer movies.

So you guys know this.

I'm so in crime and war and spy stories, which are all fascinating, but they're not exactly like yes, I felt the ya for just like interesting.

I watched a crime one recently.

I've been oh, that it's French one on Netflix.

Yes, isn't.

No, they dubbed it, dubbed it.

I can't watch dubbed. It's actually really good. I binged that one was my head in and I'm like, oh, like, okay, maybe I need to watch it. Then I thought it's come a long way.

It's the dubbing, like some people didn't notice until a little bit of the way.

Yeah, okay, maybe you do that. But yeah, it's that one's really.

Good because it's not like heavy. It's not intense, it's not doing you know, it's it's like got a kind of lighthearted humor to it.

What's heavy to you?

Like killing, like proper murder, like a love a murder mystery.

You would have watched that one on stand and the Judge with the dad of Malcolm in the middle is it? You know, it's a series? Watch that, Like, I.

Couldn't even watch that Hotel Cecil or whatever.

I love that stuff.

I watch it, watch it.

I couldn't watch that The Judge.

Yeah, I'm really I don't know what it is. I think maybe because it's so distant from my actual life experience that I love all kinds of genres, but the one that really distracts me, like actually makes me switch off from my to do list is like true crime or crime fiction for.

That, Like Love Island started yesterday, so I'll watch that tonight. See I'm not a reality but it's my version of reality. I don't think of anything else. I'm like, so fixated is your legal brain kicking and you try and solve it? Not really, I don't watch.

I don't watch like I do watch. I do watch Lauren Otta, but I don't watch like the court.

Bit of it.

It's more like the detective bit of it. And I think because it's there enough of a story that you have to pay attention, like you can't be on your phone if you want to know what's happening. But they're not so much that you get tired, Like it's not like a docco Whi're like, oh yeah.

Yeah, you're like fully engaged.

Yeah, but in terms of like joyful things. I also read and watch a lot of things that are like super uplifting, but I just like, I can't think of any from the last particular week. But the guy from Lupin the Actor is in and I've already used this as a recommendation before, but if you haven't heard it, he's also in a French movie called The Untouchable.

I say that that's so sad. Did we talk about that or no, we talked about it. One of my favorite films Everone in the Wheelchair that is so sad but so beautiful. It's so heard warming. Yeah movie and a true story and a true story. I think they think two of those, the American ones no good. Yeah, I've watched the original because it was subtitles to and then I watch American one. That wasn't that good.

The French one is. I think French film is just really subtle, like there's something about it.

It's a beautiful movie actually.

And I love that even though it was a French movie, it became like like you guys have seen it, like lots of people in English speaking in.

The English speaking once because you told me to.

It is like one of the most heart Yeah, it really is actually like heart wrenching but heartwarming humanity loving movies. Ever, So, if you guys need a little bit of a pick me up and you haven't heard my recommendation in that movie that I've used like eight times, The Untouchables.

I've got one more movie and it's kind of a little bit like that. Like it's really I've never cried so much in a movie. Like it was so sad, but it was also really like heartwarming towards the end. I think I've told you to watch His Miracle in a Cell Number seven. I think it's in Turkey, but it's and it's subtitles. It is Oh my god. I cried from the start until the end, Oh my God, like sad cry, but then there was like happy cray. When's that? It's on Netflix? And I woke up the

Okay, speaking of blowfish, have you guys watched My Octopus Teacher?

Yes? What's that? Oh? Got a documentary on Netflix.

I can't use that one because I used it last week, But Octopus Teacher is also like a documentary.

Okay, so I was the same.

I was like a documentary, ill be animal documentary. I love animals, but it wouldn't be the first thing I'd go to. And we just put it on the background because everyone had been.

Raving about it for so long.

It is so beautiful. Really, it's so fascinating.

Because I started to watch what's that Sea one?

Sea Spiracy, but that's kind of more political.

This one's just beautiful. This is a heartwarming. Yes, okay, maybe I need to watch it, but I just see those things and I was like, oh no, I'll watch are like selling Sunset? I love selling Sunset. It's like, this is how a difference, so where Sarah and I are similar, but we're different. So every time in the morning, I was just like on the age, I'm like on Daily Mail, I'm actually driving here.

I thought that you put up you were singing to some gangster song and here yeah, on your Instagram story and here I am listening to nineties throwbacks.

Like how do you guys do road troops? Like how do you do music?

Choice? Really get a choice?

Because she doesn't want to listen to Dixie Chicks.

You're into no Sarah's like, oh Landslide Dixie.

Yeah, okay, So what's your like happy music? Because I think something I forgot during COVID when we weren't driving, so I wasn't just plumping the tunes you forget in just around your house to put music on, but it actually changes.

Your movie definitely every day. What's your happy song or happy songs? See, I listened to like hip hop and rap, but I wouldn't say they're like my happy songs. I like listening to like playlists from like when we're in La, like maybe like memory, yes, like we've got some playlists and like even like when we went to Coachella that year, like even some people performed. They're like I'll listen to those kind of things.

But it gives you like a butterfly.

Yeah, I really like I've got this thing with Ed Sharant like I lovesurance. Yeah, it makes me happy. I don't know, But then I love hip hop and rap. I wouldn't have picked a weird.

I helped in a car the other day and it was old school justin Bieber and I didn't say anything, but I was like, what are we listening to?

I can imagine listening to it.

Yeah, sometimes I put on Baby Absolutely.

I just was looking through my Spotify and I was like, I feel like listening to something.

Old, yeah, nineties like throwback.

I like Asap Rocky, like Little Yachty, like the Baby SA.

I love that.

I love you guys so much, so different. That's the best.

Well, thank you guys so much for joining. This has been such a yay and I hope it's kicked off everyone's week with a few chuckles.

Thank you for having