Grace Brennan // The brilliant, benevolent brains behind Buy from the Bush

company and what a great conversationalist she is. It's not just her fascinating and unique story either, although I did love laboring over all the seemingly unlikely chapters that led to the one I met her in, but just her enthusiasm for asking questions as much as answering them and

learning everything she can about the world around her. I can't entirely recall which parts were on air or off air, but I know we veered well beyond the scope of a normal episode to just share opinions and curiosity about aspects of the world. She's one of those people I've only chatted to maybe a handful of times now after our PayPal boot camp session a few weeks ago, but

who I would love to spend more time with. You may know Grace as the woman behind Buy from the Bush, the movement and now marketplace encouraging consumers in city areas to do some of their shopping in the bush to

help support small rural businesses. Just six weeks after launching the movement as a hashtag, spurred by the devastating effects of drought on entire communities in the outback, Grace generated a six hundred and sixty percent increase for rural business owners and just four months later that became five million

dollars in revenue. Australia Post even noted a forty percent increase in parcel postage in regional areas where they were selling out of parcels to send, and the business has continued to explode, now becoming a full buy from the

Bush marketplace and booming community supporting rural business owners. And just recently Grace announced a very exciting new element to the business, a pitching initiative for those outback businesses in partnership with PayPal called Big Break, where rural business owners can pitch to win thirty thousand dollars and more in prizes towards their businesses. I know she is an absolute inspiration and incredible human being championing our outback businesses where

they needed most. What I loved as always was not only hearing how Grace catapulted into her yay, but how unexpected that was and how long unwinding her journey was to get there. You might not know that Grace isn't actually from the Bush originally and led a very internationally focused life growing up in Sydney, living in London, and

studying international studies in Chile. She only made the move to the Bush seven hours out of Sydney, joining her husband, a farmer who she'd met at fourteen years old at playing Trick or Treat and with whom she now shares four beautiful kids. That's two episodes recently with a heartthrobed farmer.

Take notes, ladies, Grace has so much to share on shifting priorities and your identity, compromise and partnership, stumbling upon unexpected purpose in life and grabbing that purpose with everything you've got. What an amazing hero for rural Australia who I know will steal your heart like she did mine. Grace Brennan, welcome to the show.

straightforward and obvious answer. But for people who have only heard of you through you know, your twenty twenty Australia Day Address, or through the Australian the Year awards, or through the accolades and amazing figures and impact that you've had, it can be really easy to get a really glossy perception on the outside. But I loved in that twenty

twenty Australia Day address that you mentioned. You know, when you read other people's bios, it all seems so flushy and wonderful, but you would write yours down as Grace Brennan still finding her feet. I absolutely love that. What would you say is something really relatable?

can pays in tempurire prawns, it's a fancy event. So you're usually dressed really nicely and you've got makeup on, and you might have even been the speaker, and so everyone's looking at you as like this fancy person, but then you're just a vulture on the poor waitress lady. And I also like, if the tempura prawns needs sauce, and I'm getting eight for later, I need them all to have sauce, so I'll stand there and dip each one in and be like, just hold on, I.

and it's propelled you onto the scene. So people just forget that you had a whole life of building up to this, most of which involved you having no clue where you'd end up. So I like going all the way back to I mean, even the fact that people know you as Grace Brennan. That's your married name. You had a whole identity before that, So take us back to young Grace Clark, what you were like as a kid.

I know you had a childhood of backyard cricket. You met your husband at fourteen when he threw an egg at you, Like it's just a beautiful story. But you aren't originally from the bush, which I also found really interesting. So talk us through your first jobs, what you thought you wanted to be, and just what you were like as a child.

I was one of five kids and had this lovely experience of this beautiful home life with lots of influences from older siblings. I was quite like a fair bit younger than my older siblings, so was shaped by them just as much as my parents. And yeah, met Jack. I lived across the road from a boarding school where he was at school, and I used to catch the ferry home from school and I'd walk through and he'd be like playing golf, pretending to play golf on the lawn,

and we got We used to get chatting. But I mean, I tell the story that when we met, he threw an egg at me and I caught it, and then the rest is. Ye, we fell in love, but I had actually been stalking him before that, like as I catched the ferry home. Oh yeah, like you know when you're younger, you have in my diary, I was, you know, I love, but there was like a list. You had a list of crushes. There was never just one exclusive crush. So he was on the lead.

of tried to egg us and I caught it. So we've been together kind of ever since and grew up together, which was, you know, lovely and challenging all at the same time.

gap year overseas together. You were in England, Jack traveled the world. So it's not as though you both grew up in a small town and never wanted to leave and just stayed in a small town. You know, you'd gone out to see the world, so you could have conceivably had very different ideas of what the future might

hold for you. So I think for other people out there who have made big moves for love and for their partner and to make a family work, we'll probably identify a lot when we get to then ata of how you adjust to that identity. I know you cried for like six hours of a drive all the way there the first time, but that doesn't mean you don't want that life. It just means you know, there are hard parts of giving up your identity to an extent absolutely topping it for a new one.

that we had kind of met the person. I think, and I remember Mum saying to me, you know, he'll live in Warren, like that's where his heart is. And I was like, yeah, yeah, and she said this will this will be a challenge for you. And we were so young. I think I was eighteen. I'm like, oh my God, like, let me worry about that later. But she had the wisdom. Mum met my dad when she was like eleven or thirteen or something bizarre like that, so she had this we have this shared history. Yeah,

really similar story. It's crazily similar. But she paid this relationship the respect it kind of deserved, even when we were younger, which most parents are like, oh, teenage love. You know, they'll get over it. But as we approach, you know, in those in that year twelve time when things start to get a bit serious, we're approaching the exams, and you know that talk around like you shouldn't have a serious boyfriend in year twelve because you know, when

exams comes, it's a risk. And sure enough, the friday before the exams, we broke up. I was just heartbroken and a proper heartbreak and I couldn't so I did not care one bit about the exams. You know, we obviously reconciled, and I feel like I went through a lot of maturing through those years when when most people aren't, because this person that I happened to meet when I was so young was the love of my life. So we kind of, as I said, we grew up together

and went through some you know, challenging heartbreak. Although I don't think he was that heartbroken to be fair, just me.

really inspiring. But also I think what it makes me think of is how there's such a typical story. I mean even with my husband, who was you know, brought up in a small town in Devonport and in Tazzi, and the whole idea of success in the future was get out of that small town, not move from Sydney

back into a small town. And so yes, you're also a really shining example of kind of making a not a reverse but a perceived move in the opposite direction to what most people would expect people were trying to do, which I think is fascinating as well, because again it reiterates that idea that happiness and success and fulfillment doesn't look one way for everyone, and you make what makes in your life work. But looking at you in Uni, you know, I was reading about your degree in management

and then also international studies. You were in Chile, like you were in Santiago, and it's not like you didn't have a really big international goal. So how did that you know? When you were at Uni, what did you think? I think that combination of degrees was going to lead you to And then how did that change as you were returning to Australia, because that's a big shift in itself.

the most of it. And then ultimately, when somebody has a vocation like farming and in a partnership, anything I really wanted to do was less important or less significant to both of us than his absolute passion of farming, So it just naturally took a back seat. But I actually think almost before that happened, I was subconsciously charting a path that would allow me to work out wherever

we may be in remote Australia. So that time in Chile, you're right, I was setting international studies of majoring in Chile, and it was kind of, I think, my last ditch, kind of I'm just going to go and have the best time ever and have this fun and a real, you know, a significant learning experience that doesn't need to lead me to some employment opportunity. It's really about living for living's sake, because you know, it wasn't about I don't like, I didn't have some plan as to where

that degree would take me. I just wanted to learn. So Jack came with me for six months of that year and he lived with me in Chile and did nothing while I went off to university. And he kind of sweeped the floors of this this Chilean household, and the host the family we lived with was like, who is this guy who cleans when you're at university?

But so he was, you know, at times, pushing him away to go and learn, go and get a degree, don't come straight back to the farm. But when Jack turned around at twenty two or something and said I'm going to go spend six months in South America, his dad thought that was madness, like what are you going to waste your time doing that for? But I think for our relationship it was kind of a significant moment too, because he was following me in that little dreaming moment

and we could have that great experience together. And then when we moved home is when he settled and went back to the farm permanently, and I spent a bit more time in Sydney. So I feel that for the sake of our relationship, that give and take element he was giving to me in that moment, and it's lovely that we had that. But in terms of that culture of moving away from a small town because there couldn't be much on offer in a small town. You've got

to go and experienced life elsewhere. I think by from the bush, part of my motivation is to say to people, my god, look at what's out here. Look at these people doing incredible things. There's talents, there's eccentricity, there's all sorts of things in the bush that maybe that really two dimensional image of a farmer in a hat that we present to Australia is not you know, it's not the only thing. And there is joy to be had in a small town, for sure.

exactly genetically testing sheep. Like there's science. There's so much intellect and stimulation. It's just I love what you have done because you're bringing that to light in a way that people would a assume that you came from the bush to have the passion that you do, Like why would anyone choose to go and become so passionate when

they've come from a city. But also you've given it a platform where, you know, because they are so busy genetically testing sheep, most farmers don't think I need a social media platform to help show this to the world. You know, you've created a really wonderful way to communicate that as a career path but also as a life path, that it's a beautiful place. You've got four children growing up in the bush. What an amazing way for them to grow up in this country.

cultural difference between the city and the bush. And I had cousins in the country and i'd grown Luckily, I already loved it before I got here, but certainly living here and getting to know the community more, I think that same modesty holds us back a little bit out here because nobody wants to sing it from the rooftops about how great we are and what we do and like agriculture and Australia is incredible in terms of where

it sits globally. So I just think that that's the story worth telling, and sometimes it takes an outsider's eye to present that in a way that people in the city will understand and get. Yeah.

this to the world. You know. It was like again one of those things that people's big yay And as you mentioned, the very start of your yay, not you know, anywhere near the end starts as a small seed and little bits. You know, you started by getting a job in agriculture. I think it was addraft that you worked out for four years before by from the Bush was even a concept. So can you take us through that period? It was that four years at a draft when you'd

first moved or were you? Were you still in Sydney then? And then how did sort of that? Two thousand and I think it was October the sixteenth, twenty nineteen that buy from the Ball my God researched, Oh God, you mean stalker ish?

be used as a mechanism for community development. So when I moved out here, I moved toward a community development job and specifically working with Indigenous youth engagement, so working in kind of at risk youth, and then had a side way step into kind of athlete development, so again trying to create meaningful pathways from remote western New South

Wales through to high performance sport. But still my passion was kind of the community development side of that, and then a bit more youth work in there too, And I was on maternity lead from this youth work job, and this girl who works with my husband was pitching this idea of ag Draft, which was an employment platform to connect employers in agriculture with job seekers. And labor in agriculture is a global problem, It's an enormous problem.

And she was pitching this idea and I hadn't had anything to do with startups, nothing to do with pitching, but I was super interested because we had talked about this labor problem and actually we kind of stewed on a solution of our own. And I worked on this pitch with her, and weirdly, I think a startup and community work have a bit in common. You're trying to

get buy in in both instances. So I was helping her with her pitch, and in the end she won this competition, she launched the business, and then I started working for her and eventually kind of became a co founder in that online platform. And that was my first fora both into agriculture but also that startup online platform space and learned so much. I'd worked in a really not for profit kind of area before, and this was absolutely for profit. You were kind of heckling to get

capital investment. I remember going to this pitch competition and she used these words like iterate and pivot. I was like, do we need to mention that because I feel like that's just like a BITWANKI And she was like, no, no, no, we need to mention it. Okay, But anyway, Yeah, it was a steep learning curve. It was also this great experience of working with a female partner and how that works. I didn't know her that well before, but we worked

really well together. And then, weirdly, I think By from the Bush was a combination of that startup online space and that my community development work coming together.

what it was ultimately going to be. For that now knowing what you have done with that, it all makes sense looking back at the skills that you were acquiring in the startup land and then also in pitching and stuff like, it all comes together. But I love reminding people who are in the chapter now where they don't get where they're going, just reminding them, don't worry, they're just stop and everything will start to connect eventually, because then you were able to turn it into something that

has become so you know, pervasive in society. Yeah, I feel like life is just one big skill acquisition journey, isn't it. And that's what I kind of I kind of felt like my life out here was I was going to try and find meaningful work to do around my life.

events for young people. Then into agg draft and you know, trying to make a go of it, trying to make a go of this startup, trying to get customers, trying to prove the concept. It's such a lonely, lonely path, that startup world. And then and then Buy from the Bush and it's like this incredible instant success. And always the journalists say, oh my god, it's such a simple idea. Did you ever expect it? Would? You know? It's been

this overnight success. And my friend kind of interrupted me one day and said, every time I hear that, I want to say, well, that's the short version, you know, because she had watched this evolution, which you know I haven't been conscious of, but absolutely, you just bit by bit piecing it together. And then what the wonderful thing about Buy from the Bush was that I could just be my absolute self and use the little bits and pieces I'd gathered from elsewhere and apply them, you know,

without restraint. In this context and have an impact. I think possibly when I've been doing other things, I've been holding back one part of myself because I thought, oh, you know, that's not appropriate in this context, or that's not relevant, or I don't know enough to kind of speak up. And then this comes along and I can just go, well, I you know, I don't have to be anyone but a mother for a farmer's wife who's got a little bit of experience here and there, and

I'm trying to create change. And I think it frees you up, kind of tap into your talents.

one knows who you actually are. Yes, So I love that so much, And I also love the way that you've framed it. A couple of times now around you were trying to build a life and a career and a pathway that suited where you lived. And most people don't do it that way. They don't do it in that order. They make the rest of their life work around what they think success is and they try and

reverse engineer from there. And it's unusual for someone to have chosen a lifestyle and chosen a family situation or chosen location and then have built their dreams within that framework. It's quite a different way to come at things. But I think your story is amazing for proving that it doesn't preclude you from finding something that you could never have found in Sydney. You can't found buy from the

bush from Sydney. You wouldn't have even had the insight into the communities that you would have if you were there. So I just think that's really beautiful that you're, you know, exactly where you're meant to be. And obviously the person who was the right person to bring this message to life, even though it did just start as a hashtag and has now become this gigantic movement. So talk us through that.

You know that twenty nineteen moment at the kitchen table and where the idea started, Like I know, it was really driven by the impact of drought, which in Melbourne, you know, we're always complaining about how much it rains and how wet it is and have really such a big detachment from actually the impact of drought on farmers. How did that kind of start to spur you on to start this?

there was media coverage here and there. But then what I noticed was, you know, all of a sudden, maybe the Hunter Valley was dry and you know, just outside of Sydney, and then you know, media agencies were sending people an hour out of Sydney or two hours out of Sydney and getting a reporter to sound on like

dry earth and starting to talk about the drought. But through these really basic frame that didn't really connect with me as a you know, as somebody who was involved in farming and somebody experiencing it, and so you know, I stewed on that for a while and over the years. You know, you don't start complaining about drought in the first year because that's just what farming is. Everyone's used to that. The second year, it's like, you know, this is a bit tough, but this is what farming is.

And then and in this third year, I just you know, I was kind of, I think, because of my city sensibility, was wondering whether this is as bad as I thought. It was, Like, I was like, this is horrendous, Like there is no joy in the day here. It's incredibly stressful because you know, cash flow drives up. People are kind of asset rich and cash poor, often in agriculture, so they're sitting on really valuable assets, but they can't

make money out of them. They have to keep spending money on them when it doesn't rain, and it's just this accumulative stress. Then that ripples through the community because things like fundraisers at school are canceled because people don't really want to spend money on tickets. But you don't really want to acknowledge that that's why they're being canceled.

You know, shop fronts start to close, and the shop owners might not go to the trade fair to buy new wars because nobody's coming in to buy their old stock anyway. The hairdresser stops getting clients. Things are kind of slow. You can really easily get in. People don't buy as much like groceries. There's just these little things that add up, and I think, you know, people stop looking at each other in the eyes quite so much,

and you don't smile as much. And if you get together, you kind of talk about these dust storms because it's awful, but also you don't really want to talk about depression. And then so one day a couple of things happened. I heard this radio interview and it was between the Prime Minister and a journalist and it was so combative,

and I kind of understood it from both angles. One was trying to make the Prime Minister accountable and saying, you know, you wouldn't even know there was a drought on in Australia, and then the Prime Minister was saying, but look at the money we're giving, you know, And all of it was just ignoring the big reality, which is this human cost and this burden of stress that

was being carried by households and especially women. And all the vision was men in paddocks and dying sheep, and I just felt that this community experience was possibly not understood by people in the city because of course we weren't telling the story. And then I, in the course of two days, I ran into it three people who mentioned suicide, like worry about suicide among their family members, and I stopped and thought, no, it's not because I'm

from the city. This is actually really bad. People just are tight lipped here. So I thought, there's nothing to lose. I'm just going to start sharing all these incredible businesses that exist out here and encouraging people in the city to do Christmas shopping from them. And it was as simple as like literally. At first, I tried to write a letter in response to this radio interview. I thought, now I've got to tell people what it's really like, and then thought, what the hell is the letter going

to do? And like, who is it to? Who am I sending this to? So instead I kind of closed the letter and opened Canva and created a logo and then posted in Instagram. And this friend who I'd mentioned it to, like, I said to Millie or will you help me with this? I've got this weird idea, and she said, yeah, I'll help you, and the next minute she's getting friend requests from the bulls. She's like, whoa, Okay, this is happening, and so it just started from there.

But that was the idea that I wanted to kind of reframe the conversation around drought to include the impact on community, on small business, on women, but also in the same breath, to celebrate this like hustle that was happening.

Because what happens is that the cash flow from agriculture drives up, and so people not even working in farming are affected, obviously, and the impact of that is that women often those supplementary incomes that were maybe a hobby or a side project start to become like the primary income, and so they're drive and they're almost their position within the household becomes more of a breadwinner, which is quite

a significant shift. So capturing that but obviously in a light and accessible way and just saying here, here's a nice handbag. Do you want to buy it? And you'll be helping a rural community if you do.

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to know about. And thirdly by Now Pay Later, exploring the future of payments pop September twenty third and October twenty first for those remaining two in your calendars, and I've included the link to register in the show notes. One giants over lining of the past year or so has been getting access to some of the cleverest minds and their wisdom without having to go anywhere, So don't miss the chance to take advantage while you can hopefully

see you there. Neighborhood Oh my gosh, Grace, it's just I am so I just filled with passion and awe and compassion as well, and just excitement that this has done what you had hoped, but probably well beyond what you had ever dreamed could be possible. But I think why it's so powerful is that often you do get these human interest stories and you'll see you'll get a little inkling of how tough it actually is and the

ripple effects through the community beyond farming. But then there's this big divide of what can I do, Like even if I wanted to donate money, it's like, well where and how do I make sure it gets to that farmer? And how do I impact that actual problem? And so you've pared storytelling with action towards helping the problem, you know what I mean. Like you've made this direct way of people to they get the emotion sparked, but then

they can do something with it. And there are so many people who would want to help you, but just not have the platform to do it. That's the biggest problem in most cases is not the lack of compassion, it's a lack of what do I do with that compassion?

And to see I mean I was reading some of the stats again and I just nearly wanted to cry that in six weeks there was a six hundred and sixty percent increase for business owners from creating by from the Bush as a hashtag, and five million dollars in revenue that you had generated in just four months that

wouldn't have been there. And I think even Australia Post reported a forty percent increase in parcel postage in regional areas to the point where the packages were selling out because people like there was just no precedent for that kind of volume for businesses and that, I mean, I don't know how you don't cry every day just thinking about that alone. You are just extraordinary for like making

that happen. And I know it probably doesn't think him very often for you, but but I'm sure when it does, like that is just amazing.

this community movement. I think people like a community driven response that's going to actually enact change. So being kind of a conduit to that good will was just so rewarding and still is.

not much that hasn't been rediscovered. But being a conduit that solves a problem as a service is almost more impactful because that's the disconnect between problem and solution. Is often more the problem than like a lack of having a particular product. And I love that you've built a feeling. You've built a brand, you've built a sense of belonging without having to physically create a product, because you've created a community. And I think that's really beautiful as well.

So if anyone is sitting on an idea that doesn't feel like, oh, but you know, I'm just connecting A with B, well that's what a business is, connecting A with B.

around this community and around this movement. And in some ways, you know, this was never meant to be a business for me. It was a response to a crisis. But you know, in business theory, what we did was build value and build that social proof and that brand loyalty, and then launch a business model that hopefully still is true to that value and that you know, why people joined with us in the first place. It's just a revenue generating model now that will sustain our activity going forward,

you know. So it has been interesting also, I mean that's I don't know whether it is that interesting to you, but for me that quite a fascinating challenge and transition from this hope movement to business and getting you know, all the nuts and bolts of that. And we've had this amazing support from PayPal in order for us, you know, to do that, but the psyche and the mindset around it, you have to kind of always be in touch with your purpose and your core in order to still get the joy out of it.

at speaking about. And it was interesting before we started recording the novelty or like how quickly this is skyrocketed from a movement to a business makes you feel like you're disqualified from talking about certain things, but I think it actually makes your opinions more relevant because we are in such a time of rapidly changing environments, inability really to plan much further ahead than a couple of months, constantly dealing with fast changes and uncertainty and rolling with

like what's the next iteration? Stay in the bush? And then you've got another new exciting project coming and like everyone has been thrown into that environment now, So that makes peaceeople like you who have just been through it and are continuing to go through it. Your opinion is probably what we need to be the loudest right now, because you have gone into a time without having a real plan and then having to just figure out how

best to continue that why in constantly changing circumstances. So feel free to also weave in some of the nata here, like the fast pace, the self doubt, the burnout, the overwhelm of choice of like which direction to go in? You know, how have you gone on to decide marketplace and then stay in the bush? And then also, I hear you have a very exciting new project that you might want to introduce here as well. Oh yeah, insert here,

insert here TBC, which I don't know about. It was literally in the notes TBC because it comes out tomorrow at the time of recording, it will be out by the time we release this. So yeah, talk us through that next.

in what they know and that is enough. But even if I'm confident in what I know, I am often thinking, okay, well, but there's so much I don't know and there's so much yet to find out, And I think that that mindset is not a particularly positive one in some business context. I think, you know, sometimes if you're not going to sell yourself, then who the hell is? So it's your

responsibility to do that and imposter syndrome. For me, it's definitely a thing in a work context, but specifically it's that thing, Well, I'm not an expert in this or that there are people in the room who would know more than me, so I'll just sit quietly and absorb their wonder and insight, you know. And actually what I learn more often than not is that I know more than I think I know, and my perspective, my insight is valuable and absolutely kind of there's a place for

it at the table. And it's been the steepest learning curve you know, in eighteen months because straight away, like really really early on, we were working with Facebook and PayPal and big multinational corporations who wanted to partner with us. And in that moment, there's no like when you're just one person and a friend helping you, there's no departments you can deflect questions too, like it's you having to Okay, we'll talk about pr in this breath, we'll talk about

legal in this breath. Will do some creative assets on the weekend, like just every little aspect of And every entrepreneur probably knows this, but for me, the pace that you mentioned was actually really beneficial because there was no time to stew on that idea that like, you don't know as much as these people. You just had to do, do, do, do,

Like if I was asked to speak. Everything in me wanted to say no, but I was on this forward motion that I just was like, okay, yeah, because that's going to create more noise around by from the Bush, So I've got to do that. I've just my goal was so clearly reach and impact that no self indulgent nerves was going to trump that in a way, you know, it wasn't more important. So I consistently battle with that idea of wanting an expert in the room, like I just want to defer to an expert all the time.

I want to defer to Dad, probably like Dad, tell me what's going on here? But yeah, learning that you are actually the decision maker and pushing back when something doesn't feel right, I'm still kind of learning to do that. But I have had really fortunate experiences with partners and people helping me along the way and early on like what also what needed to happen. And I think this

is probably interesting to people. When Buy from the Bush did take off, there was heaps of offers of help, and my instinct naturally was to.

look like really professional. She's like, no, trust me, I think you might need it. So and then suddenly I had this like amazing insight from her and a partner in crime basically. And then a family friend said I know how to build websites, like do you want me

to build it? And I was like no, no, no, And then next week, actually, oh my god, can you And we you know, we played together as kids, but we didn't know each other that well as adults, and suddenly we became, you know, work collaborators, and that has been a great learning for me. Just tap into like say yes, and then if it feels right and feels good, and then it's just such a joy when you do work

in collaboration with somebody who's really great. So I am jumping all over the place here, but I think a couple of learnings that sometimes when you're busier, you actually don't get in the way of yourself quite so much, and you can achieve way more if you know, sideline the self doubt and just focus on getting shit done.

And that certainly worked for me. I actually think, you know, a year on from launch, when it was down to the business end of you know, establishing a marketplace and suddenly asking people to pay for something that we've been doing for free, and you know, a slight shift in the relationship I had with the Bush businesses we showcase all of that. I tend to get kind of bogged down in because I really value relationships and value this community we've built, and I always want to make sure

I'm delivering value. And actually you also need to make sure that you're making money so that you can survive. And I mean burnout is like I'm burnt out. I was burnt out like a while ago. I'm just running on empty, if I'm being honest. So I think that, yeah, there's so much nay, and it's just finding those moments in the day where you think, oh, this is quite fun, and if there's enough of those moments, it counterbalances the stress, because god, yeah, running a business is stressful.

just no time. But I think if you're not forced into that pace, you have to create that same lack of room for self doubt to fester.

like you can create that speed of action to stop self doubt coming in for as long as you need to.

next to the next. And often thought if you thought about your commercial business, because at the time it wasn't If I had applied this attitude to ad draft, what could I have achieved if I really just thought the purpose of why you're doing this is so important that you need to just swallow any kind of doubt or barrier and just push through and push on, Like what could I have achieved? And I think I will take

this into anything I do in the future. But it's interesting way you just put it that you actually have to make yourself And I think, actually that is my new approach to work, because when new projects come on, I do just kind of tumble into it and tumble through it because then you don't get the sweats, because you know those sweats that stop you from making the phone call.

I've stopped myself from being able to back out. It's almost like manipulating yourself into doing something that part of you doesn't want to do, but the other part of you does want to do.

He'll pick up the phone and make it. And I've always admired that in him, and I have always thought, God, I need some of that in me, because I will think I'll get to that, I'll get to that.

just want to scale up. They've got this kind of you know how you just need a little bit of something something to get you over a hurdle and get you to the next stage. So, sponsored by PayPal, we are launching tomorrow. There's incredible prizes, like sixty thousand dollars worth of prizes up for grabs and you've just got

it all you have to do. It might be the most scary thing you've ever heard, but it's just you have to make a selfie video and pitch your great idea to us and we're going to share it with our followers and there's a cool judges that will tell you about later, probably by the time this goes to it.

You can just find out on the website. But if you're rural and you've got this great idea, what we're really looking for is a business concept that will have positive impact on your community or rural Australia as a whole. Because obviously Buy from the Bush is a great evidence of you know, when people invest in business in the bush, incredible ripple effects flow through communities and we really believe that.

So that's it. It's a pitching comp for rural Australians to get there to build legs around their business I'm really excited and we're gonna have lots of fun with it.

that might want to back your idea. And I remember having this meeting in the Startup harb in Sydney, which is like a you know, a big building full of startups, and I pitched to this government agency and he said to me, look, if you were in this building with that kind of traction and those numbers, you'd be funded

by now. And I just thought it was a moment where I thought, I think I believe you, like I think if I if this business was being run from from Sydney, we'd be off and running and how ridiculous because we were a business focused on agriculture and we absolutely should be able to grow from rural and remote Australia.

So it's kind of those beginnings I think that's informing this competition and I just think we as rural Australians, we need to stand up and pitch ourselves, pitch our business and kind of sell the Bush even more so. That's why the slightly uncomfortable factor of standing in front of your camera and giving a selfie video as part of the competition, that's very deliberate because I think put your face out there and sell it and you know, find some customers when you do.

gets easier than more you do it. So I'm so excited. Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see what this does for the community.

any time. But I think it is something that maybe not so much at the very beginning, or there are definitely times of your business where leisure and joy and downtime does sort of take a little bit of a backseat, But I think it is also important just for freshness of perspective as well and motivation to get away from what you're doing. Every now and then and just have moments where you forget what time it is or you're

distract from the to do list. Whether it's you know, a long puzzle for hours, or if it's five minutes of lighting a candle, you know, whatever it is. It looks different for everyone, but I think play is something that's really important in our lives. Is there anything you do just to play? Just that you allow yourself to waste time with even small things in all your spare time.

Like often my play is listening to a podcast while folding, or even sometimes it's kind of those you know, elements of service that women do, like visiting a family member or something and having a cup of tea is leisure, but it's also because you think that that, you know, that'd be a nice thing to do for the family member, So it's really interesting, like is there room for play

in my life at the moment, not a lot. I do love a bath and I love a swim Like if I'm swimming, it's like your childlike when you're swimming, aren't you? So for me that's the best. But also just like quite random to share. But I'm going to because it's so fun. I just recently with no time to do it at all, but because I feel like this play element is so important and making a choice around like some spare time activity that makes me happy.

A friend and I, in lieu of a twenty year reunion because a twenty years school re union has been canceled this year because of Delta, the Delta variant, we are making a podcast in loeui of a reunion, so we're like catching up with people over the airwaves. How fun is that?

listen to a business podcast, you know. But it's not a waste of time because it allows you to have the giggles that you need to get back to doing your work when you eventually do go back to doing your work, Which is why I think play is as unproductive as it feels in the moment, it's actually one of the most productive things you could do for yourself.

which is a bit like COVID lockdown. This is our lives. But yeah, so I agree with you that the value You're right, those wasted time thing is often the definition of play, isn't it. It's time that you can't put a value on, but it does so much good for you.

So yeah, to be totally honest, I don't have a lot of time for play at the moment, but I do capture those little moments of like a bath or a swim or creative pursuits, because yeah, it brings me a lot of joy, and joy makes you better at your job, I think absolutely.

doing very little and doing it together. And you know, a beautiful meal is a highlight for us. Like we celebrate quite little things and don't need much, but we are so challenged by this stage of life, and to present any other kind of reflection of it would be

totally a mistruth. So I hope that the little moments of like a cup of tea and you know, somebody told me about and I can't remember where it came from, but about just like the hello and the goodbye in the evening from your partner and how important that was, and that I've never consciously thought it. My dad used to call my mum every day. He ran his own business as well, so he worked a lot, and he would call home and I'd answer, and he'd say, how's

your mum And I'd say, oh, yeah, she's good. He'd say Okay, just tell her I'm checking in. And I'd say, do you want to speak to No? No, no, no, just tell her I'm checking in. He's still annoying me so much as a kid, but now I think it was him saying I love you every single day from work, and she used to do things like put lippy on

in the evenings before he got home. And I know, like it sounds so, I know in so many contexts that would be like, oh, like did she feel she needed to put But it's this shared kind of understanding I think between them of what they bring to the marriage, and I really hope that Jack and I also have that, and we have It's not through a date night or like a ritual, but it's through every day understanding that no matter how terribly hard it is, we are better

for each other. And I'm certainly better for having him in my life, and I hope he feels the same daily.

make a difference. I mean, we've worked together and lived together and have been doing that for like six years, but two pretty much in lockdown. So if I didn't have those little rituals, like we would literally just be business partners that are housemates, which is not great.

expert in erotic intelligence as opposed to emotional intelligence. She's a she's a psychoanalyst who deals in relationships and her I mean, I won't do her justice by describing her, but what you just said, I think she would echo in some of the things that she says around establishing those kind of things that make your relationship more than a friendship and housemates and business partners, I mean working together. I find that so fascinating. And how you manage to

keep thee the warm and fuzzies so interesting. But please, yeah, whole series on that. Oh my god, you should. I'll interview you on to Survive. You're married.

brief that you just gave me. But I am stewing on this trend of vulnerability, and I think I want to push back on it. I think it might be overrated. Is that something that that's that's what it is now? I knowation, but I know I'm I'm I'm working on it. I'm kind of getting the words around it. But I feel like this inverted vulnerability, which we're all being, you know, which is being celebrated at the moment, I feel like I want to push back and ask whether that's exactly

what we need right now? So that's do we need to go there? Or can I just say that that's one of the interesting.

contexts I think it's misused. Like sometimes I think there's a there's a lack of clarity between honesty and vulnerability, and I probably lean towards the always valuing honesty, but people in the bush value stoicism and strength, and sometimes that is absolutely what's needed for survival and maybe at a cost. But I didn't really I'm not really ready to articulate exactly how I feel, but it's just been I don't listening to it going. I think I might think that vulnerability is over.

don't know. I agree that in particularly in times that are not clearly delineated, that there's an ending, like a drought that could be six years long, vulnerability at all costs, since say year one might make you two incredibly difficult for you to pull yourself back from that very vulnerable place to just cope, and I think to just sometimes, Yeah, sometimes the coping mechanism that's required of you in certain situations really does not allow for vulnerability, like there is

no room for that expression, and so encouraging people to do it when maybe it's going to let them unravel completely. Yeah, I think there's sometimes a place where it's not the only way forward.

don't have it. It's something I I think you might only get after a lifetime here, and I observe it in other people and I just think, God, that's remarkable, and that in some ways they get to the self reliance like solving their own problems and getting shit done. I don't know that they would if their first instinct

was to be open to vulnerability. And I do think that they can get to contentment and a type of happiness and a type of success without necessarily dwelling in self and in their vulnerable site.

be destigmatized and conversationalized. That's really important. But there's a lot of and this is probably the thing that I am challenged by, not vulnerability in itself, but the way that things become bandwagoned like vulnerability authenticity. That's where I get like.

I'm not really I've not really experienced imposter syndrome. And it feels abrupt because you're like, what, you don't have a breakdown all the time, I when we've associated that with enlightenment, So are you like unemotional with a hard shell? Some people don't have it.

you said about prone to trots? Like that was the most instansitive thing. I was like, what do you like?

think we do the bandwagging. Actually, maybe that's the bigger problem that I kind of resist anything that gets kind of wrapped up in a in a parcel and present it to me as fact and or as like this new version of truth and it's everywhere, and I just want to I don't know, I just want to kind of mute it every now and again.

she just agrees with everything. Like I don't like controversy. I don't like to disagree with everything that I see on social media. And I so respect and admire and I have had many people on this podcast whose voices have created meaningful change because they're willing to have a hard conversation. But I think sometimes people just want to have a conflict, They just want to have an oppositional

conversation because it's debate. And I'm like, you don't have to debate everything, Like it's okay to just say that whether it's nice outside and not everyone to go, oh, this is windy. Are you exercising your freedom of expression about the fact that it's windy? Is it really windy or is it breezy? Like let's use the technical tip. You know, there's like a debate about everything.

various like seasonal moments or like causes. Like, so, I've got this thing that I won't ever change my profile to show my support for something, regardless of how much I believe in it, because first of all, I think it doesn't do that much, but even if it did, I just don't want to miss it one day and like, oops, I forgot to change my profile and then people think I don't support it, and like I miss a day and a trend, and then I'm a naysayer and I

don't want to be. So I've like avoided that completely, quite deliberately, And I wonder whether anybody else shares my fear those like filters that come over to show your support for various world moments or causes.

There's so many that. Yeah, I try to be quite neutral in as many things as I can be.

I'd like to I mean there are obviously causes I really care about, but if they're really like binary or oppositional, I try to just yeah, I'm very Switzerland.

I'm consuming and who I'm talking? Like I must be in such an echo chamber, which like like I could see from where I live, absolutely so many people live in that echo chamber. There's a much more diverse voice that doesn't get heard, I think. But she then went out and actively sought interviews with conservatives to try and burst her and I really enjoyed the conversations because they were challenging but genuine like seeking information rather than kind

of criticizing. And I don't know whether I listened to them all, but it was just a good exercise because so often I think, you know, especially in your role, like as a podcast host or a media or a content creator. You often you know you have to choose a lane, and then, God, a lane is limiting, isn't it. Like let's get multiple voices in the lane and bounce off each other because life is so much more interesting if we do.

But everyone's like, oh, no, you are either now gay or by and like, let's make sure that we know exactly where you stand. She's like, I don't know where I stand, so why does everyone else need to decide that. I'm like yeah, and she's like, I can never say that I'll never be with a man again, Like it's just a not a big deal. I'm just changing my mind as I go and I'm like, oh, more of that.

Of course they're going to change their mind the more informed they've become, and like I think, on so many of our pressing issues, if they were allowed to, if we were a bit more fluid, if the media were a bit more fluid, Like I don't know anyway, they're not going to solve the problems here, But it all starts with me stewing non vulnerability.

greater being is for you. That means a lot to me.

it can never go back to its old dimensions. And I think every time I go overseas and see a different way to live, and let's to say with even going into remote communities, seeing like we've spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory and just seeing different ways of considering time or family or connection, and you can't ever unsee those things. And the more you're exposed to them, you don't have to agree with them or

ever want to emulate that in your life. But travel has always been my way to open up the world, and so it has felt very difficult. I think almost because I never hesitated to like eat two minute noodles for three years so I could go on a trip. I almost feel less constrained because I don't feel like I was waiting until the perfect time and never traveled.

But I also because I'm so used to consolidating myself that way, I feel a bit stagnant because I'm like, I haven't had distance from my own crap for so long.

like very very basic. So when we went to Russia, I learned like conversational, very basic Russian, and same with Arabic, like to pull together even just like be able to say hello and thank you and understand where grammar sits like. That's part of traveling for me is figuring out the way that they yes, yeah.

up along the way. God, it's such a joy. It's one of the greatest joys in life.

have expected. If you enjoyed, please support Grace and shower her with love from the neighborhood, sharing the episode and tagging buy from the Bush or hit up the marketplace yourself to support our outback business owners, especially as the festive season approaches. If you're listening in and have a business idea, you might qualify for the Big Break Pitching competition, so the details for that are in the bio two.

Grace goes into a lot more practical detail about community building and particularly focuses on social media in our PayPal Business boot Camp webinar that I mentioned from a few weeks ago. The full video is now available for you to rewatch, and I'll pop that link in the show notes too. I hope you're all having a wonderful week and are seizing your yay