This episode is brought to you by Seek. The great job Boom is upon us and there's never been a better time to take the next step in your path. Yay.
We have spring, summer, autumn, and winter, and we adapt and change with every single season. As human beings, we are actually geared toward change. I just think we forget it.
I think for so many of us we wait until that final moment where it is so devastating for us or our relationships or our health that then we think, oh, now I need to go, and we don't need to wait that long Stephen our Covey that says that we get to the top of the ladder and then we realize either it was the wrong ladder or the ladder was up against the wrong wall.
Welcome to the Seas the YA Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore the good, bad and ugly. The best, worst day will
bear all the facets of seizing your Yea. I'm Sarah Davidson or Spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned unentrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. Sez the Ya is a series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Lovely Yighborhood. I'm so excited to present our next mini series in partnership with Seek. It's brought me so much yea to mix up the format and zoom in on
particular facets of seizing your yea. So allow me to introduce Finders Seekers. You've all heard me rave on and on about how life unravels in many different chapters, and how the most uncomfortable, scary changes in our lives are usually the most transformative and exciting. One of the many silver linings of an otherwise undesirable few years is the opportunity to clear the slate of habit and obligation to
actively seek those changes you've always dreamed of. And there truly is no better time than now, with more jobs around than ever before, but less applications per job ad driven by a shortage of candidates. The great job boom is upon us, and yet forty five percent of ossies are worried their skills and resume won't stack up against other Aussies. So in Finders Seekers, we have a host of amazing guests, from coaches to entrepreneurs to help kick those nays to the curve and turn them into ya's
by making your next move today. I am thrilled to welcome Kemmy neck for Pill as our very first guest who returns to the show for the second time, and how lucky are we to have her again. If you've ever heard Kemmy speak before, you'll understand why she is one of my favorite people to chat with. You just can't leave her presence without feeling enlightened, empowered, and truly inspired.
Go back to episode fifty to hear her full backstory, but to quickly recap Kemy embodies the idea of the nonlinear path yer, spending her childhood with five different foster families with as many different careers following, covering stage and television, acting, professional baking, and yoga teaching, all this before finding her calling as a speaker, coach and author of two brilliant books,
The Gift of Asking and published only recently Power. Consider yourselves very lucky, yebahood to have an hour of Kemy's time. Her coaching is highly sought after, and if you've ever been considering making a change towards seizing your yay, she is a woman you need to hear from. Without further ado, Kemmy neck for pill lovely Kemmy, welcome back to the show. It is so wonderful to have you on. I think this is your second time. Now is your third? No second time?
It is. Maybe it feels like my third, but it is definitely only my second. I look forward to the third. It is a pleasure to be here with you again, sir.
For those who haven't heard Kemy's incredible story, you can go back to episode fifty to hear it sort of in more detail in our normal structure. But I just felt it would be so remiss of me not to have you on this particular mini series because in terms of the concept of constant change and upgrading and pivots and life not going in a linear fashion. You know all those kinds of things, not only in your own story,
but also as a coach. I feel so very lucky to have you here, So thank you so much for joining.
No, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about this conversation because you're right, there is so much change going on right now, and yet it can scare us so much. So these are opportunities for us to look at our mindset around change.
Absolutely. So, maybe just for those who haven't listened to episode fifty, for a little bit of context before we kick off, can you tell us a bit about what your youngest self first was seeking to become so that we know kind of how far it ended up twisting and turning from there. I think it was acting to begin with.
No, it was baking, O.
Baking became four, that's right, baking, acting, yoga.
Lots of careers, yeah, lots of careers.
And I think one thing I knew because I actually had a childhood that was full of change, I think it was in some way a grounding that made me realize that we can survive change. So even though as a child I didn't choose to change, as an adult, I could, and I think I just had that kind of internal resilience to know change is scary. Change can make us feel really uncertain. It makes us question our
identity and our value. And yet I know for myself that any of the changes that I have made, especially the hardest ones, they have always been worth it. So yes, started off as a baker when I left school, went from baking into acting, went from acting back to chefing, then went from chefing to yoga teacher. From yoga teacher to mother, which is one of the biggest changes and
pivots for those of us that are parents. From mother to becoming a business owner, then from a business owner sort of becoming an entrepreneur, and then now as we speak, an executive, personal coach, author and speaker. So that's my portfolio career of change to this point. Oh and as
you know, I'm also stepping into the world of flower farming. Yes, yes, so that is another level of change, you know, and I'm happy to go further into that because anything, you know, I have no idea how to be a flower farmer.
And yet I think, because I'm a coach, I know that I don't need to know how, and I'm aware for myself and for my clients of those same reoccurring feelings and questions that we have when we're stepping into something new, or when we're leaving something that we're very comfortable with.
Yes, oh my gosh. And this is why you're just the perfect person to speak to because you do bring so many different perspectives to that question of why are we by default averse to changing our pathways? But why
do we need to? And what are some of the things we can expect when you are upon a change, like whether it's I think it's interesting that you distinguish between changes that happen to you, which can force you to learn to embrace the discomfort of change, but then also the fact that you can choose those changes as well, which we'll get into with some statistics. What do you see as the most common barriers to change? Is it fear?
Is it comfort? If it something from your book that we'll get into as well, was learning to make yourself small, doing the right thing? What do you think of the biggest barriers.
It's so interesting because being a coach, you know, I work with various clients that will come to me with you know, different initial reasons of why they want to work with me. Either it's around their leadership, or it's around personal life, entrepreneurship, or it's a mix of all of those together, and I would say that there are definitely there's not necessarily one particular obstacle, but they're definitely
within the realm of what you're talking about. So that idea, especially for people that have spent a long time training in one particular profession, it can feel like I have spent seven years in law or ten years in the medical environment, like am I going to throw all of that away to now start something new? And what I end up exploring with those clients is you don't throw away seven years of working within that industry or ten
years within that industry. You look at what are the skills that you've had within that industry that you can now bring to a new and day. So I think we forget what we have learnt along the way, and that actually a lot of employers are now looking for people that can bring certain skills. They're not so much looking for what was your training, It's like who are
you and what are the skills that you bring. Another one is definitely when it comes to gender, So with women, I think we all know the statistics that if a man sees a job ad and they feel that they can do sixty percent of the job. They're like, yep, I'm in. I'm the one. It is me and a woman that needs to feel that she has to be one hundred percent all of the boxes in that job
application before she applies. So that is definitely an obstacle for women that we feel that we this internal critic or this internal voice of I'm not smart enough, I'm not old enough, I'm not young enough, I'm not good enough, i don't know enough, constantly going around in our head. And I'd also say that we have somehow been I don't want to say lied to. Let me just say that the societal structures that we have around jobs is
this idea that change isn't an expected thing. But actually we've always been part of change because we're humans and we live within seasons. For those of us especially that live in places that have seasons, we have spring, summer, autumn, and winter, and we adapt and change with every single season. As human beings, we are actually geared toward change. I just think we forget it.
Oh my gosh, that is so powerful. This is why you're one of my very very favorite people to speak to, and every time I am in your presence, I feel like even the things I knew already you kind of open my mind up again to how they can apply and how it can break through the things that aren't really useful for us. And it's the statistic you mentioned about men and women applying for new jobs is one
of my favorite statistics to share. But I also learned a new one recently in the context of this particular mini series, which is that all of those factors combined have led to sixty one percent of Australians not wanting to change jobs in the next twelve months, which alarms me because I think of the terrible couple of years we've had, we've also had an amazing opportunity to clear the slate. And when nothing is certain, you know anything
is possible. You can choose really to do anything you want. We've kind of had the chance to stop the momentum of habit and stop the momentum of obligation to choose. You know, where we want to be and what we want to do. So having said all that, you have yourself gone through lots of different changes, and I think having read you've just released your third book called Power and very aptly a Woman's Guide to Living and leading
without apology. And I think one of the things that comes with the self doubt and everything is our conditioning, our societal conditioning to make ourselves small to do what other people expect of us. The quote that you shared in your introduction was the most common way people give away their power is by thinking they don't have any. So for you personally, how has that played out for you?
How did you give away your power earlier, miss out on some of your biggest pivots, and then how did you learn to break that down to do all the changes you have so far?
Yeah, great question and sort of multi laid, and I'm really happy to go in there, But I just want to go back to what you said around this time of change that we're in right now, because in the same way I think that we you forget that actually
human beings, we are geared towards change. If anyone has been through any form of lockdown, if you have been locked in your house, on your own or with family members, there is not much that you cannot do, you know, Like I think we forget the resilience that we've also had to build over the last two years, and that we can be resourceful around that, So I just wanted to kind of put that in there in terms of look at the skills that we have gained in the
last two years. So much has been thrown up in the air. This is actually a perfect time for some people to think, well, you know, that's all happened, I might as well just change it up now. But in answer to your question, yes, so you know, as women,
we give up power all the time. We have it taken away from us all the time, and we're strategic we give it away too, you know, we know, oh, okay, this is the best time for me to kind of just step back and play small, to be good, to not say the wrong thing, to not use my voice. And yet we've seen in so many different arenas around the world that when women do step into spaces and they share their story or they share their experience, it
gives other women permission to do the same. And it's the same within the job market.
You know.
All it takes is one member of our friend group to say, do you know what I'm done with my job and to take that next step and actually make a change for other people in that group to start thinking, oh, if they've done it, maybe I can yes, they've done it, maybe I can. And I think the other thing that we miss is that we need to ask more questions. So one thing I know as a coach is that so many of us will have a goal, and yet we talk ourselves out of it with stories that we've
made up in our head about that goal. So, for an example, let's just say that I am currently working in finance, but I want to become a graphic designer. I have already decided, well, none of my skills in finance have anything to do with graphic design. I've decided that I have to go back to school for another four years. I've decided that people are going to be
ten years younger than me. You know, I've just made all these decisions, and yet I haven't actually gone on to a website to check what does it take to become a graphic designer? Do I need qualifications? Can I just set up my own website and start asking family and friends at first and have a little bit of a side business before I leave my main role. Or do I want to apply for a company and they're
happy to train me up as I go. I think we have to be mindful that so many of us stop ourselves because we think we need to know how before we move forward. And what I have found in my own personal life and in the experience of my clients, it's the commitment to change is actually what then sparks the how.
Right, So in your I mean enormous pivots from like a cross industry. So again coming back to that, do you need to be qualified? Do you need it? Like you haven't just pivoted within a role, You've pivoted completely into whole new identities. What are some of the things you look back on now that stand out is like the things that almost toppled you, but the things you're really glad you push through and did you get better at it over time?
I would say that the big and I think we talk about a little bit in the other episode, but definitely the hardest and biggest pivot I made was from being a successful actor where I could tick the box around kind of social standing and you know, financial enumeration and all of those things and all of the joys that come with being a professional actor and an actor that worked NonStop for seven years and deciding to leave that to not really know what I wanted to do
for my career, but I knew two things. It wasn't making me happy, and I enjoyed playing with food more than I did standing on stage seven years. So I thought, even though I don't know what I want to do for the rest of my career, I do know that I'm happy to play with fruits and vegetables for a
little while until I figure it out. Like that was it, And the reason I got to that point was because I had decided eighteen months before I actually left acting that I wanted to And as those eighteen months went on, I got unhappier and unhappier and unhappier and unhappier. And I think for so many of us, we wait until that final moment where it is so devastating for us or our relationships or our health that then we think, oh, now I need to go, and we don't need to
wait that long. Yes, but in some ways I say that, though, but I'll also say that I did need to get that unhappy because in my head I was like, but what my parents think? They want me to be financially stable? I have a job that so many of my peers would want. What a lucky position I'm in. I should be grateful for this, you know, I had that going on, but ultimately it was like, am I happy? No? So am I showing up as a good actor? Am I
wanting to be with my colleagues? They were great people and it was a great job, but I wasn't feeling it. So that was when I knew, for me, there is someone else that would love this opportunity, and you've had a great run for seven years and it's time for you to get uncomfortable. But I didn't have support from many people around me, and that was hard.
Yeah, it's so interesting that you brought up the concept of gratitude because I think it's wonderful. Of course, gratitude is such a valuable practice, but I think sometimes it can blind you to wanting more because you think I'm so grateful to have anything at all. Other people would covert this position. That definitely kept me in law because I was like, how can I be so ungrateful to want more? But it's actually okay to want something different even if your needs are met in the role that
you're in. And the other thing you mentioned that I love is that it took you to get particularly uncomfortable, and so for me. I don't necessarily worry about people who are desperately unhappy, because I think you do inevitably get to that stage where it's too much and you leave. I worry about me in the law firm, who wasn't unhappy, but I was settling. And I think you don't have to settle. You can get to a point where something that is what everyone else would dream of isn't necessarily
what you dream of. It's okay to walk away before it gets bad.
Yeah it is. And I think that's what's so beautiful about when people share their individual and that's why I
think this series is such a great idea. It's that when people start to share their stories of change or their experience of change, and maybe they sort of fell over a few times and then they picked themselves back up or somebody else picked them up or whatever it is, you start to realize, oh, okay, so I just need to kind of, you know, put my handle on the door and begin to open it, or I just need to put my foot in and then after that I'll
take the next step. But you're right, it's when we just think, well, I know the door's there, but I just have to make sure I'm wearing the right glove, and that you know, I'm the right weight, and then I've got the right dress, and that I've got the right you know, qualifications and all of these things until I open the door, and then we die and the door never gets opened. And we live at a time now, especially with what's happening with the global pandemic, where we
are expected to change and grow. And I think that's one thing we miss is that as human beings. And it sounds cliched, and I do believe in cliches. I think that's why they became cliches.
I'm with you.
Yeah, Otherwise people wouldn't keep saying them.
That wouldn't keep saying that if they weren't true.
That's just not how it would work. Everyone would just go, oh, that's not true, and that'll be the end of it. So appreciate of you know, if we're not growing, then we die. I have grown through my life, you know. So if we're into professional and personal growth, which I believe that, you know, some of us are consciously, some of us are unconsciously, but I definitely think it's a space most of us would want to step into that I don't want to be the same person as I
was last year at this time last year. I hope that I've changed and I've grown. I've learned things, and I've made mistakes and I've learned from those. But you know, we should be growing. So the career that we chose at eighteen, if we're still doing that same career like quite a few years later, You're right, we're kind of stagnating. We're just kind of sitting in this world. This is
what I know, I'll just stay here. And yet the job market has changed so much now that we have the ability to go, Okay, I'm going to step into something different. You know, I'm now ten years in this career. I'm now seven years in this career. I'm now thirty years, twenty years, and I think I've built up enough skills to know what I want to know the value that I bring, and I'm ready to open another door.
Absolutely, And I love that you touched on that, because that is a really big thing I want to emphasize that I wasn't aware of actually that you know, there are more jobs on the market than there have been in a really long time, but less candidates and less less of a pool available than there ever has been before. So it's actually the perfect time to be putting yourself forward for something that you know, an opportunity you might never have thought was for you. Because you know there
are more jobs around. It's the great job boom. It's the perfect time to take advantage of this. But something that's really interesting about what you mentioned about moving away from acting when it was really you were at the pinnacle of that ladder within that industry, and that's that you jumped without knowing what you were jumping to. So on top of the fear of change, there's the fear of the unknown change. There's a fear of like could it go wrong? Financial security, I think is a really
big one. As you mentioned becoming a mother. You know, we're not in a vacuum. A lot of people have children who there dependents. You know, they've got obligations. There's so much to keep in your mind as a concern when you don't know what the next step is. I'm sure you see this with your clients all the time. How do you kind of talk people through like I know that the book is so methodical in the way
you lay out the five power principles. As a way to take control in those situations, live up to our power rather than give it away. How do you move people through those fears and uncertainties but encourage them to do it anyway, because you don't want them to miss all the chance for this unique cultural phenomenon. You don't want to look back in ten years and think there was no better time to do that.
Why didn't I do it?
And I love so I didn't know those statistics either, you know, I didn't know that this. There's this great job pool now at the same time obviously as the great resignation. So it's kind of like a lot of people are realizing they want more and there are these jobs available now that were never available before. So couple of things. One, I got to a point in my acting career when my agent at the time said to me, where now at a point that we need to start
doing auditions in Hollywood? And that was when I think about it. That was a time when I realized I don't want the next level of this. Yes, because that's the other thing is And it's Stephen our Covey that says that we get to the top of the ladder and then we realize either it was the wrong ladder or the ladder was up against the wrong wall, and I just knew, Yeah, there's your quote.
Oh, I'm like a moment for this. I need to write down the times down for this is the quote I'm pulling out.
And yeah, I mean, I think it's one of the quotes that stuck to me so much. With the habits of highly effective people, you know that we need to take the time to check is this the ladder? Is this the right wall? Because whatever point we are in in our life, we are using resources all the time, whether that is life energy, internal resources, external resources, So it's important to keep checking in is this where I want to be? This was the right ladder four years ago?
Is it still the right ladder? If it is fantastic? And I'm going to segue with ladders now, I'm quite toughed with myself into what you said around people taking the leap. So this is a really interesting thing. And in some ways this is a difference between being a coach and being a consultant. So it's important for me
that I don't have an agenda with my clients. They have an agenda and I am there to support them, but I am very open to their agenda changing, and my job is for them to really understand who they are,
not who they think they should be. So what I might say to a client in the situation where they want to move from one profession to the next, or look at a promotion within the industry that they're in, whatever it is, I will say to them, would you consider yourself to be someone that is happy to look at the edge of a cliff and just run for it and give it everything and jump off and you just trust there's going to be a mattress at the bottom.
Or are you someone that wants to go to the cliff, look over, see how far down you have to go. You want to take your time to find the perfect wood to build the perfect ladder that you're going to climb down when you're ready. You've sourced your mattress, it's all eco fibers, it's ready there for you, so that
when land, it's there for you. And I think it's very important that we under and obviously there are gray areas in between, but it this kind of gives peop a little bit of an idea because some people think they should jump and as you say, when there are actual financial responsibilities. It can be hard for some people to jump. They're like, that doesn't feel responsible for me, And that's kind of the fifth power principle is responsibility. They may think it is not the responsible thing as
a parent to just jump. But I am willing to over the next six months or over the next six years, work out and exit plan, or start looking at jobs and maybe have some interviews so I can start to see what is out there and where my skills are now relevant at this time. So understanding who we are as we step into new opportunities and new job opportunities is really really important.
Absolutely, and I think that's one of the things I maybe didn't emphasize enough in the earliest days of CZ. THEAI was very pro leave your job, find your passion, do you, which is a very big part of the message. But it's also within the matrix of what is going to, you know, remove pain and struggle and enhance freedom and joy. And if you leave your job in a terrible financial matrix, it's not going to cause joy for you, you know,
so it has to be right for you. And that's also why the entrepreneurial pathway is something I wanted to emphasize a lot because of the great job boom that some people are terribly suited to running their own business. Some people really wouldn't thrive in that scenario. And there are so many people who I speak to who have maybe even more potential for creativity and growth within a
company than they would outside of it. So do you find with your clients that you get like an equal number of people within a corporate structure as you do in business? Is a bit of both. Do they face similar or different challenges? And is your advice the same?
Well, I work with entrepreneurs and people thin the corporate because I want to have a diverse coaching practice and I love, you know, supporting and walking alongside clients depending on where they are. I think for women, the level of self doubt sometimes can be the same regardless of
the industry and that idea of giving away power. So maybe for an entrepreneur, someone hasn't paid, you know, a supply, hasn't paid something on time, and they're too scared to follow up because they think that they may not be liked even if they have given the service and everything that they may think, oh but they might not like me. They might think I'm pushing. I'm like, no, they might just think that they need to pay you the money
for the service that you gave them, you know. And then in terms of court put it, maybe that a woman has spent I've worked with her for a while to get into a particular room, so let's just say that's a particular leadership level. But then once she's in the room, she then has this fear of actually speaking in that room. So then it's like, so, what does power look like for you? The second power principle is ownership. It's like owning that you are in that room for
a reason, and owning that your voice matters. If it didn't, you wouldn't be in the room. You know. The corporate structure in some way so systemic that no one's in a room by accident. You're bare for a reason, so why would you not capitalize on that reason. So in some ways, yes, it's the same in that we're always happened to look at what our internal story is. But they're dealing with different day to day challenges in those environments.
And I found it really interesting that in the subheading of the book is the concept of a Woman's Guide to Living without apology, which must mean that living with apology is something that's more widespread, probably than we understand. Even though looking at my own journey, I can see how many times I am the biggest overapologizer, the biggest appeaser, you know. And I've had to really talk about conditioning before. It's something I have absolutely been conditioned towards because I
don't like confrontation. I like to keep the water smooth. I liked everyone to be happy, and I mean obviously sees the a I want yay joy like rainbows and love, but sometimes that's not going to get you anywhere.
No, because of the weight, the weight of being burdened with making everyone happy. Let's just take that, Just think of that for a moment, like, how is it even possible for us to make everybody happy?
And I feel like I've learned the only way you can do that is by being nobody or everybody And in that if I'm doing that, then I'm not actually sticking to anything, because if everyone around me is happy, I'm obviously shape shifting and not like losing myself in how many different ways I'm trying to you know, So on that note for women in particular, but I think for anyone really who's navigating applying for new positions, balancing
assertiveness to put themselves forward for these new positions, whether within a company or between jobs or industries, assertiveness versus feeling comfortable that you're not tooting your own horn too much. Like there's such a hard matrix and fine line between assertiveness and likability, particularly for women. There's owning your power,
but being humble about your power. There's just so much much like, how do you encourage people to drop the self doubt but still navigate not pushing too hard or not not being themselves either because you know, I like my seizing my power is a lot less assertive probably than the next person because I'm like a bit softer, but I still you know what I mean, how do you help people find that nice middle ground.
Well, that's the thing about how I you know, how I've done the book, and I think it's good to probably share with the listeners what the five principles after they've kind of dipped into it.
Two.
So the first one is presence, the second is ownership, the third is wisdom, the fourth is equality, and the fifth is responsibility. And I wrote this book so that we as women can look at a different form of power than maybe the power that we think of. Most of us don't wake up and think, oh, I wonder my relationship.
With power is you do.
Well? I have gathered information over a period of time, you know, to kind of look at what is it the world needs from women right now? You know, we have these incredible opportunities, but we don't feel that we can stand in them. And this form of power that I talk about is not about power over and dominating other people. It very much comes from the Oxford Dictionary definition, which is that power is the ability to act or
do something in a particular way. And when we look at it like that, it means we all have power in different situations. And what I'd like to share because I really don't give advice as a coach, but I
do share stories. So just to speak to what you just said, something that just came to mind is that when I would go for auditions as an actor, I knew that when I walked out of that room, even if I wasn't chosen for the role, that I didn't have a conversation in my head of oh I could have been more like this, Oh I should have been more like this. Oh I should have been more assertive. Oh I could have been a little bit more, because that's just what I call eating your brain like, it's
just exhausting. I wanted to be able to go in present myself as myself who I was at that time, in my early to mid twenties, and you know, read the scripts and do what they asked of me. But that once I walked out of that room, I was like, Yep, you showed up. You showed who you were. You know, you said you might if you're nervous, you say, I'm really nervous being here today, or I can't believe I'm here today, or you know, I would just share who I was with them, and when I left, I couldn't
be any more or any less of myself. I think once we start to, as you say, the shape shifting, we're actually starting to manipulate the environment and the people in front of us. We're trying to make ourselves more of something so they will say yes to us. But what happens if we're not really that more of something and they've hired that more of something and every day you go into work, you have to bring the thing
that isn't actually you anyway? You know that is Yeah, you're not even getting on the ladder then, because then you're already starting with a manipulated version of yourself to get the yes for a person that you're not. And it gets very complex once you get into that kind of work environment.
Lovely yighborhood. You all know how excited I get about life unraveling in chapters and how uncertainty is the greatest platform for opportunity. After a few tough years, the great job boom is upon us and there has never been a better time to start the next step in your path.
Ya.
We talk at length on this show about the obstacles to change, and the statistics are real. Forty five percent, nearly half of OSSI's are worried their skills and resume won't stuck up against other Aussies. Fifty nine percent are worried that if they change jobs, it might not be the right role or company for them. But if you let your mind worry that there's a risk it won't work out, logic consists that you must also accept that it could also work out better than you had ever dreamed.
Plus the numbers are on your side in March. Job ads on sequel up thirty two percent compared to the same time last year and fifty one percent compared to pre pandemic levels, but job applications per job ad are down forty two percent compared to pre pandemic levels. So there are more jobs but less competition than ever before. So if you're looking to change Pathia's head on over to seek and take advantage of the great job boom. Something else that I think you have really helped me
with is that idea of rejection. Like in any situation where you're going to be putting yourself out there for newness or growth opportunities, it will almost unfailingly involve quite a few no's before you get a yes. Sometimes the nose are because you know the universe is redirecting you towards a thing that is actually suited for you. Sometimes you won't know the reason why you've got to know.
But if you have come to that opportunity with everything that you are and nothing else, then I agree you walk away from the rejection going, you know what, that wasn't for me, Because if I came as who I am and it didn't suit, then it wasn't for me. It still hurts, it's still uncomfortable. Yes, how do you coach your clients and relating it back to the idea of the power dynamic in that suite situation through rejection to get to the yes, that is the one that's meant for you.
Well, you've already named it, actually, and that is the owning that it hurts. So one be present, be present to the feeling like it just feels horrible to be rejected. And I think we have a society. It's like, oh no, no, let's find the silver lining, let's find the lesson. No, just be devastated, like eat ice cream, go and lot yourself in the cupboard and feel devastated and own it and just be with wow, this is hard. But also then we can also sit that alongside with why am
I doing this? So this is hard, but it's not as hard as being in a professional in a job that is sucking the life out of me and has been for the last few years. You know, like, yes, this hurts, I need to call a friend, I need to do whatever it is I need to do. But that actually, I'm going to get up and I'm going to get back out there again because my life is important to me. And when we think about how much time we spend at work, it is so important that
we craft a life. And that's the thing about responsibility, that is, it is our responsibility to craft the work environments that allow us to show up and give what we have to give. And if we're not taking responsibility for that, there's nothing wrong about that. As a coach, I just call that feedback. We'll just find ourselves in default careers, living to the expectations of other people, living
to the expectations of our bosses. And you know, I've had quite a few people say to me that they basically looked at the boss that was above them or the big boss, you know, the CEO, and just thought, hmm, do I want their life? Oh, that's the ladder moment. That's the ladder moment again. It's like I'm climbing a ladder, But when I look at the person at the top
of the ladder, is that what I want? The way that they speak to people, or the way that they don't see their family, or the way that they don't have any hobbies, or the fact that they don't sleep or they don't look after themselves, or they're drinking every night, like once again, to give ourselves the opportunity to be present to what is working in my life, what is
not working in my life. And then the ultimate power is taking responsibility for both celebrating what is working, because obviously some people listening to this are in their dream jobs, you know, and I always say, if you're in your dream job, that is not an accident. You know, that is not an accident. You have worked out what you've wanted and you have managed to create that. And then for other people, it is a case of oh, okay, when I look at what's not working, it's actually the
people that I work with. I don't know how you were, Sarah, when you first sort of got into work, but I remember when I was sort of temping as a young you know, just sort of when you're at college and various things. I remember going to one job and this kind of shows this is quite a long time ago because VHS VHS videos I was going into like a factory. I had to stick stickers on VHS videos and when
in you got for eight out. Yeah, it was a temping job in between drama school, and I think it was eight hours on a convey about with other people just putting stickers on the vhs, you know. And we got back the next day and they said, thank you for your work yesterday. It was the wrong stickers, so today you're going to take more off, and I just went thanks by.
I'm not doing that, No, but I have.
Done even more boring jobs than that that. The people around me have been incredible. But the people at that job were not great, and they were just gossiping and it was just not It just wasn't a nice environment. And I realized what's important for me is the people I spend my time with. That's more important to me than what the job is in itself. And obviously it's a dream job if you can have both. You know, you love your job and you love the people that
you get to spend time with. But I think that's another thing. You work out who you are and what matters. Maybe the job isn't the job that lights you up, and it's your seize your yea. But I know, as you say this, but it allows you your job allows you to seize your ya outside of work hours, then that can work. If you just know, no, I'm happy, my job doesn't have to set me on fire because it allows me to do things outside of my work
that set me on fire. But for other people, no, I want my work to have deep meaning and I need to be passionate, and those people are. We're practiced at rejection, practice at being uncomfortable. It doesn't make it easier, but we do understand it's part of the journey.
Oh my gosh, absolutely, that is so powerful, And that is one of the things I think I took out of the book the most was the idea that even in being someone who's quite practiced at things like self doubt or imposter syndrome and practiced at the discomfort of growth opportunities, I think it's very, very easy for us to fall into the idea that power means power over somebody, over somebody else, Like there's a limited amount of power and we all got to spread it around, and some
of us will have more and some of us will have less. And that's how power is generally perceived in society, that those up here have it and those down here don't, to the exclusion of you know, there's like a finite amount.
Yeah.
Something you wrote it's beautiful in the note that you sent with the book was that of the five pillars or the five principles, you think of me as having ownership, ownership of my story, my journey, and my self would And that was such a big compliment to me, because I do feel like I've shaped shifted a lot in my time and not owned who I really am or what I really want to please whoever I'm trying to
please at the moment. But you have shown me through this book, but also in many conversations we've had before this book came out, that power is an internal thing. It's really just the ability, and that comes links to responsibility being the fifth principle that like life isn't happening to you, parts of it are parts of it you can't change, but you don't have to be reactive all the time. Power just means proactivity. It just means power
over your own circumstances. It doesn't mean over anybody else. It's actually not related to anybody else, even though it's used that way. Sometimes it just means you can choose that you want YEA in your job. You can choose you don't care about YEA in your job. If you have YEA on the weekend, you can choose whatever compromise works for you, and you can also choose that one day the dream job that you thought was your dream
job is no longer your dream job. You know, at any one time you've you've got the power, and that I think is so valuable.
Yeah, one percent. And as I talk about in the book, you know, it's not twenty one days to power. We move in and out of power all of the time. We're walking to certain rooms and feel powerless other rooms where feel no, I'm grounded in my power. The power comes from knowing when those moments are And as you say, what are the actions I need to take to rebuild
my power back up? Or if I can't, who are the people around me that I know will remind me of my power, of my power when I think I don't have any Because as that quote that you shared at the beginning, Alice Walker, the biggest mistake that people make is thinking that they don't have any power in the first place.
Yeah, and I think that is because they see it as us like me them like they have power. Therefore I don't. They can control my working hours or my tasks that I do day to day. But yes, that's a control, that's like a part of being a leader. But it doesn't mean that you have none. Like again, it's it's not like there's a pie chart of power and we all split off little bits. It's like, no one else is in your own pie chart of power, you know, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that no one else is in your own pie chart. There's a there's a quote.
High power, power pie and that's the and I love that you share that, and that is you know, that is that idea of the power the model is, you know, doctor Brene Brown.
That's how she's really she's really managed to kind of distinguish the different form of the power you power over and power with and power too. And we see that power over playing out in the world right now in devastating ways. That idea that power is a scarce resource and I must have it and you can't have it. And look, I'll be honest, as a black woman navigating mainly white spaces, my relationship to power was white men or even white people, full stop. And those stories are
kind of woven through the book. In those times where I felt like, no, no, I have no power in the situation at all. I have no power in this situation at all because I'm a black woman, and therefore I would be small. I will not have a voice. I don't want to be the angry black woman. I will step back. But what I've noticed in that power principle of ownership is it actually owning all of that, owning that internal story, owning the systems that are at play.
These systems are not made up. There has been a system called the patriarchy that has been run by white men, So we have to take that into account and take ownership of that. Also realized within that system, I can choose what power looks like for me, as opposed to if they have it, I don't have any. It is not true. We all have the ability to act in a particular way.
Absolutely, And that actually leads really nicely to the finisher, which is your favorite quote. And I know you love quotes just as much as I do, and I thought I would refer back to your September twenty nineteen quote because of the many ways you may have grown and continue to grow, I think this quote still really represents to me what I love about you. And that's the quote was. Leaders who live into their values are never
silent about hard things. And I think this book is that it's that it's your not being silent about things that all of us need to hear. You're helping other women not apologize and be quiet, and not just women, everybody, but particularly women, to not be small, to not be quiet, to not avoid hard conversations or hard things to the detriment of joy or been a soull fulfillment. But has your favorite quote changed since then?
No, I still have my favorite ten thousand.
Quotes, and that is definitely you know, that's Brene Brown, that quote, And as a you know, dare to lead the facilitator, that will always be my one that sits inside of leadership. And you're right, I think that the book is an extension of that. And I have written the book for women, but the men that have read it it has really given them an insight into how women have to navigate certain spaces. So that's been great. My favorite quote at the moment is, well, it's been
my favorite quote for a long time. That's one of my ten thousand quotes is you get what you focus on, so focus on what you want.
Oh, that's such a good one, such.
A good one, and I can't attribute it to anyone I'm sorry, I'm not sure exactly who. I just have it as a card here on my desk, But you know, I think it really ties into what we've been speaking about today. That we can winge about our boss, we can winge about the workload, we can winge about all of these things, or we can look at what sort of a boss do I want, what sort of a work environment do I want? How do I want to
feel at work? And taking the time to focus on the answers to those questions will ultimately if you're willing to take scary action, not waiting for the self doubt to go, not waiting until you're not scared, not waiting until it doesn't feel lonely, because it is lonely sometimes to make big decisions, but just knowing with all of that, I deserve to create a life and a job for myself that does give me a sense of pleasure and fulfillment, and of course a sense of yeah.
Oh she's on brand, she's on brand. I just diod the assignment.
What the memo got?
The one that I just.
Want to add, which is another one that really I think follows on from that, but also is something that I think of you when I think of and that's that once you acknowledge the power and know that you have it, it's a different question to then ask for that, ask for the things you know you have power for. And the quote that I come back to all the time is if you don't ask it to know. And for anyone who has a lot of trouble asking with the actual asking Kemmy's.
Other book of three, her second.
Book is The Gift of Asking, and that goes into our whole nother thing, which is just the language to seize the power that you didn't know you had or thought you might have lost. So for anyone who does also then need the next step, which is how do I ask for that? It's an incredible book as well, so I'll include links to both in the show notes. Kemmy, thank you so much for joining. You are always such a delightful, enlightening person to speak with, and the book was brilliant.
Ah, thank you, Sarah. It's so good to see you. And let's do an in real life smoothe soon.
I rl irl