This episode is brought to you by Prime Videos incredible new film Thirteen Lives, based on the gripping true story of the twenty eighteen tai Cave rescue. If you've been listening for a while, you'll know of this story from my all time favorite episode with doctor Richard Harris in episode one oh two, and now you can watch it unravel from August fifth.
Be realistic, but also have your dreams and your aspirations, and you know you also need to be able to afford to look after yourself in this world. So it's a balance between the two things. I think take some things personally when it's right to do so, and other times just accept that it wasn't your time and it's not a reason to give up and to stop.
What is hard an.
Inverted commas for me is going to be very different to what it's hard for someone. But it's all relative and it's all hard, and I think in any situation there's always light at the end of the tunnel.
Welcome to the cs the YA Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives They adore, the good, bad and ugly, the best and worst day
will bear all the facets of seizing your Yeay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bark. Caesa is a series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy.
And fulfillment along the way.
Hello, lovely aighborhood.
Today's guest is special for so many different reasons, not least because we were born just three days apart and have so much else in common. You'll hear me say, I think we'd be dear friends if we lived in the same city. And I've admired this amazing woman for many years from Afar. Like many of our guests, you may have heard about Aaron Holland in one context that
doesn't necessarily represent the entirety of who she is. You might have first encountered her as Miss World Australia twenty thirteen. But there is so much more depth than detailed to her path yay that somehow flies under the radar. For example, she not only has an incredible voice, she's actually a classically trained soprano singer, graduated with a Bachelor of Classical
Voice from the Sydney Conservatorium of Music. Is also qualified in clarinet music, theater, jazz and tap, and initially dreamt of being on Broadway. Also, like many of our guests, Aaron hasn't ended up exactly where she might have planned, but is seizing all her yeay nonetheless in presenting TV work, ambassadorships and the coolest role ever with the gigantic Pakistan
Sluper League as a cricket presenter. Her experience working with the PSL in such a different culture deserves a whole separate episode, which I actually think we'll try and do next time she's over there. We spoke about it a little bit offline, and if anyone is interested let us know we can do a different chat about that. But as promised in the anonymous Q and A episode, it's Erin's journey with Fatilla and IVF that we're mainly here
to chat about today. This is one of the only podcasts Aaron has done on the topic since first opening up a little earlier this year about her challenges with conceiving and the IVF process, and I'm so so honored that she agreed to come on the show and shares so openly and honestly about what it has involved physically, mentally, and emotionally.
For her so far.
I'll let you hear the rest from Erin directly, but I really hope you all learn as much as I did, enjoy her beautiful energy as much as I did, and particularly if anyone is going through anything similar, that this might have helped you, even in some small way, feel a little bit less alone. Lovely Eron, Welcome to CZA.
Yeah, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Oh, I'm so excited. I've said a couple of times now this We've had a few false starts, but I also said before we started recording that you're one of those people who I haven't had the pleasure of spending much time with in real life. But I just feel like if we lived close to each other, I would be in your pocket.
Absolutely. I think you should come here. I should get down to Welburn way more often than I do. I think, yeah, we'd definitely be great mates. But I'm so happy to be chatting to you, and I feel like I know you anyway. It's it's fine, I know me too, oh my gosh.
And yeah, it's just been amazing to watch so many different parts of your journey from a far You've been such an inspiration and role model, and particularly in the last couple of months and maybe year. I think we got married around the same time, and then we didn't get our honeymoons at the same time, and then we had our replacement honeymoons at the same time.
That was weird, wasn't it, Like pretty much the exact same time. Very different places we went to, but pretty much the exact same time. I know, Oh my gosh, I feel your pain. Girlfriend, We've really had the same kind of journey. I can't but so happy that we got it done. It's done, finally a year and a half later, and honeymoon's done.
I'm so happy both of us did one anyway as well, because I feel like you could have totally just left that experience as like, oh we didn't get to do it. Then we'll never do it. But it's like, you deserve to have that beautiful little love bubble again, you.
Know, I think so, And there was something quite magic about doing it later you kind of reconnect and find that again. If you'd done straight after the wedding, well of course you're in that love bubble, but to sort of try and create another one all that time later was actually really nice. I think moment an opportunity to reconnect in a world that's been well, let's face it, really had dick since we did get married. We thought we were through the worst of it, and we really weren't.
Little did we know, Little did we know twenty twenty one was no better than twenty twenty But really glad that, Yeah, we got the weddings in there when we did, for sure.
Oh thank goodness. I just yeah, I didn't realize how close it actually was until looking back, and I was like.
Wow, Yeah, I think the wedding gods were looking down on us just for that tiny little window before or help recluse for the second half of twenty twenty one for sure.
Yeah, well, as you may know, you may not know. I love to kick off every episode with a little icebreaker before we jump into your story, and particularly for people like yourself who are not only incredibly stunning, hugely successful, and who often people have walked into your life through a chapter like Miss Universe or a big TV career, It's easy to forget that you're just a human who
has many relatable, down to earth sides to you. So what would you say, or what would Cutsy say is the most normal relatable thing about you?
I mean, deep down, I'm just a little boging kid that grew up in far North Queensland, Like I'm from cans and I say that word Bogan with love, like
we're you know, so relaxed, so down to earth. Just you know, my childhood was amazing growing up there, and whilst it had none of the industry, none of the life that I live these days, it had so many wonderful things that I think have just made me a more relatable person now that I'm doing what I'm doing in Sydney, and Okay, I just think at the end of the day, my brother always called me the Bogan Princess.
He's like, because you look like you know I put together on the outside of deep down, we know you're an absolute mess and I think that's so true. Like it's you know, I'm being a performer. I'm used to putting on a costume or putting on a face of makeup and fronting up for whatever my job is that day. But at the end of it, I'd really just rather be in my truckie sitting on the couch, want be eating a bag of all teasers, and yeah, just just
being really relaxed. And I think growing up in Cans and growing up with the very very basic, very easy going lifestyle that I had has set me in goodstead for you know, what's been a really crazy Yeah, I suppose eight nine years of living this career and this.
Life that I have.
So yeah, just a normal, normal, little bogan princess from Cans.
That's what my brother would call me.
Oh my gosh, I love that. So it's really interesting that you mentioned your childhood as well, because I think, as you know, the reason I spend so much of
this show on going right back to the beginning. The Wayta is the first section where we trace back all the chapters before the one that people often meet you in, and it's because there's, you know, so much of your life that people do know about, but there's so much from before that that I don't think many people really ever find out about because it's maybe not the sexy part of your life or the famous part of your life. But I loved reading that you know your musical flare.
Most people, I don't think even knew that you could sing until you started doing more singing videos, and that you started at three years old, and that your whole first life was even studying at the conservatorium. Like, it's just so cool. So can you take us back to your younger self and what you were like as a child, how you got into music then, and then figuring out that that was what you love to do.
Yeah, music is the biggest part of my life, and it still kind of weirds me out that people don't know that I sing. But like you said, what I'm sort of known for in the industry these days, it's being a presenter and coming from a beauty queen background. But I've been singing and playing music and reading music since I was three years old. My dad would sit
down with me. He'd loved music himself. He couldn't afford an instrument when he was a child, so he was very gifted musically and had the air for it, but he didn't have the means to pursue even just playing in school. So it was something that it kind of went, I'm going to throw it on my children as early as I can. If it sticks, great, If it doesn't,
at least I've given them the opportunity. And being the firstborn, you know, it was sitting down playing the recorder, tinkling around listening to music I've got such a good education of sort of like eighties, nineties noughties rock. Thanks Dad, as he loved it, like, you know, to the point wh I remember. I think I was around seven years old and I wanted an Aqua turn Back time.
I think it was his second song after Barbie get Oh.
I really wanted that CD, and he was like, how about Time after Time? I greened and I'm like, ah, oh, like thanks Dad for this two AM Matchbox twenty CD.
Not what I wanted, but sure we'll give it a go. And yeah, I just I just love it.
He just sort of pushed his taste of music of me, and I absorbed so much of it, like even down to apparently when I was a child, I was completely nocturnal and I would sleep all day and then I'd rage all night, so Dad would sit up and watch Rage on TV for hours and hours in the early hours of the morning with me, and I swear I've just absorbed that.
And even to this day, I hear music from yeah, I.
Guess eighty nine and ninety when we'd been super young, and I know the music and I know the words, and I don't really know why, but I reckon it's because I've just sat there like a little blob and by osmosis have absorbed all of this music from such a young age. But you know, I started playing the clarinet when I was.
Eight years old. I was actually a very good clarinetist.
So I got all of my examinations up to an AMOS, which if you're into music, you'll know that it's a DO GRADEES one to eight, and then there's other qualifyss after that, so music theory, vocal exams, clarinet exams.
I think I did music in grade twelve.
I didn't even sing for that, which I ended up doing at the conservatorium, but I played clarinet and I kind of total the idea of being a professional instrumentalist post school at university, and I sort of figured out when I was around fourteen years old, when I was also dancing at the same time that I wanted to be on the stage in the musical, not underneath it in the orchestra.
I was too much of a chef pony. I wanted to be right and center.
I was like, I want to be like sitting underneath playing for the people on stage.
I want to be on stage. And Mom's like, of course you do.
No surprises to us, Darling, no surprises to us.
And growing up in Cans, you know, playing music wasn't cool. If you're a sporty that was cool. If you're you know, someone who wores gate shoes and hang out with the stoners in the backyard, that was cool. It certainly wasn't cool to play the clarinet. But luckily I just I always had this feeling of I get me wrong. I hated not being cool. Everyone wants to be cool when
they're in school, and I really wasn't. I was so tall, so awkward, played a clarinet, big buck teeth, just wanted to be friends with everyone.
Really wasn't.
But I always knew, like, I'm good at this and this is my place, and I found my people and I never ever went straight away from not wanting to do what I was doing with music and pushing myself as much.
As I did because I knew I was good at it.
And I think for so many kids, you just want to find something that you're good at and a place where you belong, and for me.
That was music.
That was hanging out with my music friends, and you know, we weren't cool, but we didn't care, and we were so busy with everything that we did. So even though I grew up in cans which is obviously, you know, quite regional, very far away from our next major city, which is Brisbane two hours and a plane away, we still had a lot of amazing teachers and quality education
and competitions in that area. So I really did hone a skill set which obviously I had ability for and a talent for, but I did actually have access to the teachers that helped me get to a level where I am good enough to go to Sydney and study singing at the Sydney Conservatorium. And I was the only girl in my major stream of music voice performance in the entirety of Australia myself and there were two guys so.
To be a little kid from Cans who was good enough.
And mind you like, you know, my parents were very supportive, but they're also really realistic.
They're both school teachers.
I actually remember Mum flying me down to Sydney during schoolies. There was no chance I was going to schoolies. Forget about it, because the teachers they know what you're actually doing when you say you go into a friend's house, so there was none of that.
We flew down to Sydney and had a lesson with the head of Voice at Sydney conn and.
She literally sat there and was like, is she any good because we can't afford to do this if it's not even a remote chance that she's ever going to be good.
Enough one day.
And it's a lot to take on as a child, but it was also really important, like be realist, stick but also have your dreams and your aspirations and you know we'll get behind you and support you one hundred percent of the way. But you know you also need to be able to afford to look after yourself.
In this world.
So it's a balance between the two things. I think when you come from you know, these small towns where there aren't a lot of opportunity. It's all well and good to have these wonderful, you know, big dreams, and I certainly had the biggest of dreams. But I also came from a background where it was okay, but you know, can you support yourself and you do well in school, are you really sure this is what you want to do? Because you can go on study medicine, you can go and study law.
You're sure you really.
Want to sing?
And I was like, yeah, all I want to do is be on stage beyond Broadway. And Mom's like, okay, all right, your friend, no worries.
But you know, I think it's that growing up and being supported in pursuing my passions, but having that realistic background of you know, my parents always sort of keeping it real with me as well. My mum was never a show mum. If I killed off stage and it wasn't a great performance, she'd tell me it wasn't and I go, yeah, you're right, I'm going to go practice,
try harder, and come back next time. But I think that was really good for me, and that's what's made me quite resilient in surviving in this industry that you know, you and I both a part of is I've been competing and getting an adjudication on my performance since I was seven eight years old when I did my first step for Black and White.
This is how you went? Are you any good?
Are you not? So I'm kind of used to the setbacks of what happens in this industry because I'm so used to having a really honest representation on how I'm going and where I'm at. And I do think that that's what's helped me kind of stick it out for I suppose as long as I have and this well, because it is really hard and being your freelancer is really hard. But you know, if it didn't work out doing what I was doing, I would have been back home in cans and doing something where I could.
Afford to live. I've always had that, you know, You've got to provide for yourself.
You've got to you've got to make this a real thing, because there's no one there to pick up the pieces if it doesn't work out in Sydney. My parents are there for me back in cans for sure, but if I wanted to stay here, I needed to really dig deep and make something of it. So I'm so proud that after I think this is my fifteenth year in Sydney.
I'm still here.
She's still here, She's surmised, and that.
I think is something that again, like people often would meet you as a former Miss World and think, oh, she just had, you know, had it all handed to her on a silver platter because look she's beautiful and she's a Sydney girl, and not know that you had
been through all this to actually get there. And I think, what's so fascinating hearing you speak about that fine line in you know, finding a joy or what I call Caesarjolla that as a child, a lot of us start in an artistic like a ballet or a music, but so many people let go of it at the end of high school or even the end of primary school because of that realism, because it's an incredibly competitive industry,
because often your parents are worried about that. You know, need to build a life and be able to pay for yourself, and it's a really difficult thing. It's one thing to say, find your joy and stick with it, but then you've got to make a life out of it, and parents let alone for the person themselves to balance those two like, I want my passion, but am I good enough for it. You want to follow your dreams, but you don't want to have them crushed.
You know, And they just want what's best for you. They want you to be able to support yourself into able to function.
As a fully fledged adult.
And for me, I don't know if it was stubbornness or stupidity, but I was such a one track.
Mind was it will work, it has to work. This is all I want to do. And I've pivoted a little bit.
I'm not performing on stage in musical theater, but presenting and being on camera and being an MC and you know, shooting in.
A campaign or whatever it is.
You are on stage, you have an audience, and I've just sort of used the skills that I learned through through music and through performing on stage and put it into this.
World that I'm in now. So it was none of it was And I still want to sing more.
I still need to get back to singing more because it was my first love and I absolutely adore, adore it, and I do I do miss having it as more a part of my life. But I think doing what I've done and trying to grow a brand and a presence in this world does inevitably allow you to do more of the things that you love to do as well.
Like in any job, you start at the bottom, you work your way up, and the opportunities and things that you become exposed to and sort of you know, get become allowed to do in a way, it grows as maybe you know you and your business grows. So I am looking for opportunities to sing more and it is
something that does set me apart. I suppose when clients are looking for an ambassador for that race day or you know that airline always that I work with, it's you know, you can offer a performance singing the national anthem and performing a sess during that big event.
Singing charity events.
I love getting up and singing it to it a cure for jeans or I'm putting my hand up for everything that i can because it's such a gift, and I wish I got to use a gift more than I do. But I'm so happy that I've had the path that I've had, and that's the way to survive in this industry too. I think it's pivoting. It's that lovely p word of being and.
Yeah and doing what needs to be done.
So yeah, I guess to survive in this world, and you know, when you don't come from a big city, and perhaps there isn't that backing to just keep at it no matter what for years and years and years. You sort of end up drawing on whatever you can and being a kind of a jack of a few trades has actually served me well and allowed me to survive in this industry. Well.
I do think you are maybe our first graduate of an actual music degree who did continue on and didn't let go of it at high school and then did go on to study. But you have, as you mentioned, been able to pivot to use that in so many different ways. You are working with incredible brands like Kataria, ways you're working with the PSL like that is extraordinary. You've got such a breadth that's not just singing, but you've been able to build this brand that is so multifaceted.
And I know that you know the Misworld adventure and all the steps sort of around that chapter of your life have been covered a lot elsewhere, and I really want to use most of this episode for a topic that is more recent and perhaps a little bit less covered, but just to quickly get us there for anyone else who is has a musical background perhaps or just has a specific background but wants to expand. How did you
make those pivots? How did you start to position yourself so broadly to move from one thing to now using it? I mean, obviously Miss World was part of it, but not every Misworld competitor then turns out with the career that you have now.
Yeah, at the time I'd finished the Conservatorium, I was working a lot of primo work, like seven days a week, two or three shifts a day, just to make ends meet whilst awaited for my musical theater auditions. And I got really close to some this is around the founta of the Opera, hairsprayh We got close, but not close enough in the end, and it was, you know, having
those knockbacks and even greater stage now. Even at one point my stuff got sent to America for Glinda and Wicked as an understudy, and I was getting close to some and others out first round, and sometimes there was never any rhyme or reason to it. Maybe they were only replacing one ensemble character. You never really knew when he went in for an audition what they were looking for.
And I know on my CV, sure it had graduated the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, but there was nothing else to show on that CV other than where I'd studied. And it's a very competitive industry. We have as extraordinary talent in this country and not enough shows to go around, so it's really hard to break in.
And I sort of thought, well, what.
Can I get on this that is going to peak some interest and maybe get myself an agent, because it's really hard to kind of get.
Your way in there. At the time.
You saw your just Center Campbell's, now Franklin's, your Jen Hawkins, your Rachel Fincher's, all Queensland girls too, Actually not not Jen, but you know a lot of the girls have done well, had come through the channel of a pageant. And it wasn't that I ever was a model. I never thought that I could be a model. I never identify for being a model. But I saw the actually very vastly different careers, but you know, the careers that these women had had off the back of doing something like that,
and I thought, hey, like maybe it'll help. I'll give it a go because as a singer, I thought, well, I can sing for my talent which in Miss World is basically Miss World is miscongeniality the movie.
It's about charity.
So well your peace, You've got your talent section with the water glasses, except I say, you've got your interview and you've got your fitness.
So I thought you've got your world peace tick, got your on peace.
So and we you know, Miss World does an incredible work with the charities that they partner with, and at the time, we did this amazing Aboriginal Indigenous outreach program in you know, Central Australia, the little community which is hours past Kings Canyon, hours past Ularu, literally in the middle of the middle of nowhere. It was an amazing initiative and we did some amazing things. So the charity
component was incredibly important, which I loved it. And again so sort of like try to recoec myself, like Eric, why are you doing a pageant? Like what?
And people would say the same thing to me.
But you know, when you break it down, amazing charity work that they're doing, which is incredibly important. There's the talent facets, so I can show people that I can sing,
there's the interview, I can chat to people. I think I can be eloquent enough to get through that sure, and then you know, all all of these sort of things, I thought, well, you know, I feel like I could stand out from the crowd at least, because when you go into these competitions, you're surrounded by the most lovely, intelligent, beautiful women you can never imagine in won bring.
It's so easy to like go within yourself and think, I don't belong here. What do you think you could offer that these people can't?
But I think having that talent portion as something that I thought I could championaly stand out from the crowd with that would serve me well.
So in short, I.
Competed in twenty twelve in Miss World.
I came top ten. I had no idea what I was doing.
So luck with most jobs, your resss you think, okay, where can I improve?
What did I learn?
And I come back stronger The next year I did Miss Universe and Miss World that year and I ended up winning Miss World. So twenty thirteen it kind of all changed and I met my manager who I still
have to this very day. Books amazing, we love you, and yeah, we've been together for the last I think it was eight years this year, which is really exciting, and he took a chance on me and helped me build a brand from the bottom up, which was amazing, and i've you know, in turn, really we have a really great relationship where I don't think of him as my employee. I think we are business partners and we both work together to build a brand, and he's just
been been wonderful for me. I feel like you always need someone in your corner, and to have someone in your corner for such a long time in this world has really helped me. So the Miss Australia thing really served a purpose and gave me, I feel like, the leg up I needed to at least get invited to the events and get in front of the right people.
And then, you know, like with most things in life, you can have a door opened, but whether or not you walk through it and continue to push open the subsequent door, so well, that's what hopefully helps you survive in this way. Yeah, so that was the idea and how I sort of made peace with the idea of doing a pageant which was so completely off brand to what I thought I was going to do, which was a star on Broadway. It's just it's very strange but it worked, and I'm so glad it did.
And I think it's such an interesting point here that like, you can go into something not necessarily thinking you're going to do it forever or that it is on brand for what you wear you want to end up, but you can see things as a launch pad and not a waste of time, even if you know you don't stick with it and you don't want to be a
pageant person forever. That was my law degree. I didn't necessarily want to be there forever and my law career, but I don't regret a minute of it because it was such a stepping stone and I think we rush to need to get to where we want to be first, and it's like, actually there's probably like eighty five steps before you get there, and not all of them are really on brand all the time. But if you go into it with this mentality that it's going to open doors.
And the other thing I love about you is that you know it did open a lot of doors, but you didn't get pulled through them. You had to choose to walk through those and then use the next eight years to actively walk through them, work hard to continue that you know a lot of people kind of win those competitions and fade off into the distance, but you've
been able to turn it into this incredible career. Well, one thing I want to ask in that area is mentioned before, the idea of rejection being given really blunt feedback from a young age, that building that thicker skin of resilience. And it's hard in an industry that is really based on what you appeared to be, like your physical appearance or your physical dancing or your physical skill.
It's quite confronting. And if self doubt and impost syndrome is common to everyone, I think is really ramped up in this kind of industry. As you were building that brand for yourself, how has self doubt and rejection and setbacks and imposter syndrome played out for you, and how have you learned to manage that and maybe not expected ever to go away, but learn how to put it aside or cope with it.
I think it's important to note that it never goes away. I always feel it.
I am actually a really emotional person.
Like and it does, like I still get really upset when things don't go my way, but it's not allowing it to overcome you and to derail you. It's compet like for most things. Now I'm realizing accept it, feel the feels, deal with it, and move on. And I
know that because it hurts me so much. I know that it means that I really care and I really want something enough, and I'm always really disappointed if I don't give it amazing performance, because it's just like, you know, no, you're better than that, and and you know it'll lead you up for a day or whatever it is, and
then you move on. And I've also learned that you know to try and compartmentalize a little bit and say, Okay, well I wasn't right for that job, but it wasn't because I suck or because of how I lolcore, because of this and that and everything else. It was probably just because of X y Z and they went another way for that reason. To try not to take it so personally, and it's hard to because when you are
you as your brand, it is personal. You take every step back as why don't you love me, what's reck me?
What am I doing?
Why did I fail?
And getting the right advice from the right people.
So if it is something that you're that you're maybe doing wrongly, you can improve, then that's constructive criticism. But if it's just there went another way because that person is qualified in that area and they want a presenter, that's more you know, down the line of that, rather than you or hate you.
Just this industry takes time.
You got to pay your dues great, Like, there's so many reasons for why things don't work out, and I think the worst thing you can do is let it eat you up and destroy that self confidence. But but I also think it's important to care, and caring is
what makes you want to strive to be better. So for me personally, it's it's having a thick skin over a really soft jelly coating that feels everything and hate you to not be good enough, Like I'm such a perfectionism and a people pleaser like I just because I've grown up being on stage and being like, love me, where's my applause?
The do a good job? Where's my god star?
I know? And I was like that I have to have straight a's. I hated it if I wasn't if I wasn't perfect, And there's so many parts of my personality where you know, I wish I wasn't like that. Then I also like that for other parts, because it means that I just won't give up like you.
Knock me over it.
I'll stay down, I'll cry for half a day and that I'll get up and I'm back, you know, better than ever.
And I think it's okay.
I think it's okay to be a people person and to want to yeah, to want to impress and do the right thing and do a good job. I think there's no shame in that as well, and for me personally anyway, that that helps me be a better version
of myself in this world. It's accepting the knock backs, it's taking stuff on board, not everything on board, but you know, taking advice from the people who you trust and respect in this world as well, because because no one is perfect, and you know, some jobs it will be keep out the right personally well you know, you know, yeah, I think I think that's the thing is it's this
is awful advice because it changes. But you know, it takes some things personally when it's right to do so, and other times just accept that it wasn't your time and it's not a reason to give up and to stop.
There's many reasons for why things don't work out, in this world.
So people listening, well, no, this is like you almost said exactly the whole theme of this show just now, which is that self doubt is not meant to go away. It's a great sign that you're stepping out of the comfort zone and you're invested in doing a good job. And I too, sometimes wish I wasn't like that, but then I'm like, that's why I am who I am, because I care enough to feel nerves and to feel a little bit of imposter syndrome, but not so much
that it makes you not do the thing anyway. It's just that you need to be able to acknowledge it and push through and do it regardless.
And when you're nervous, so.
I relate it to being on stage or being on camera, and a lot of the camera work that I do is live broadcast, so you don't get a chance to cut and then start again if you stuff up, Like if you forget a word on stage, mate, you better think of another one really quick.
And I've done that plenty of times before and it can't be fuck well.
I remember once actually, in a song recital in the conservatorium, I had a set of French songs and point I completely forgot all of the words and I was just singing random vowels, like literally just like whatever came into my head and it came off stage afterwards, and my singing teacher was like, look, time was great, placement was great, blah blah blah blah. Your French started like Swahili.
But I was happy overall, and I was okay, thank God. But you can't stop in that situation.
And I think the point of you bringing that up was is learning to harness nervousness for adrenaline in any facet, whether or not it's standing up in front of your work colleagues and speaking. If that's something that you find nerve wracking. For me, it's being on stage or being on camera. It's the nervousness shows that you care. And learning how to harness that adrenaline for good rather than learning it overcome you in the moment is definitely something
that my career has taught me. And again it's a learning curve because every time you do put yourself out there, it feels different. But that's what I love about this job is no two days are the same and it's done a great job yesterday, but I can still get on stage or get on air and completely stuff it up in front of everybody, And I love that thrill. It doesn't scare me, it excites me. So I think I'm in the right line of work for sure.
And such a healthy attitude towards it as well. I think that's something I've learning to harness the self doubt rather than be crippled by it is so incredibly important.
No one cares about you as you do.
Absolutely no one ever notices as much as you remember that, and I think the other thing as well is harnessing the perfectionism in a way that's useful rather than that detracts from what you're doing. And I definitely think this is relevant to the next topic. But one question I want to ask you before we get into the meat is about your decision to turn brunette, because I think that also is something that shouldn't necessarily be as big
a thing as it sometimes is. But in an industry where you're presenting your physically on camera and in photos and stuff, was it a conscious decision? Is it something that, like women in general, I think sometimes in a business context feel not taken seriously if they present like in a way that they care about their appearance, like I found in business as a young woman, you often get underestimated. Was there any of that as a factor or were you just like I want to change, I'm naturally brunette.
It's less maintenance. Like where did that all come from? And how did it did people change towards you?
You're gonna laugh because it was for a job. What it was for a job, so typical erin will do whatever it takes for the job. It was fashion week in twenty eighteen and a color company approached me and said, you want to dye your hair pink?
No way.
I don't know if I could make pink work, but I'll go dark because I've been blowing my entire life. So I'm naturally very very fair as well, Like this is all every three weeks. I have to get my roots done because I'm so naturally light. It's all manufactured, the darkness. So I went dark for a job and the response was, oh my god, gosh, I love you dark.
It brings out your eyes. I love this look on you. Donnie and my style as he's like.
You're never going blond again, You're staying dark.
My hairdresser having ten God love you. He will not tell me blond again.
He's like, no, no, I will do it.
I will not do it.
This is better.
And you know, I guess growing up as a performer, I care about you know, again, this is a perfectionist in me.
I like to, you know, be put together.
I like I feel like I've got my shit together when I've got my face done, and you know, when I get ready for work.
That was just part of, you know, being a performer.
You put your stage makeup on, you get your face ready, and you get out into the world. And I guess for that reason, I kind of don't I'm not really attached to my look as such.
Like you know, long short hair, Like I don't care.
I could walk into the hairdresser tomorrow and he'll cut it all off and it won't bother me.
I don't really have a connection to.
I suppose what you know, the color of my hair, all the length of my hair or what I'm wearing or.
Whatever it is.
I sort of I trust the people who know what they're doing. And I think that's been really useful for me in this world.
Is you know, I have a manager and.
A publicist because that's what he's good at. It's not what I'm good at. I have an amazing stylist on Igolola. He tells me what to air all the time. He is incredible, and I listened to him because he knows what he's talking about.
And the same thing with my hairdresser.
I'm like great.
Like you know, I love surrounding myself with people who know what they're talking about. And I know how to present, and I know how to sing, and I know how to do a good job. And I think staying in my lane and then letting other people who have their lane, I suppose influence my life has been really helpful for
me because I'm a really indecisive person. So I see against myself so much and I think, yeah, I went dark and I stayed dark because you know, the response was great, and I ended up working in Asia a lot more as a result. I think being blonde is
just too unattainable. I think being blonde and working in India and Pakistan and Bangladesh and Nepal and the places that I have worked, blonde hair is amazing, but it's not relatable, whereas being white, but having dark hair in an Asian country, you're still I think you're still that little bit more relatable than if I was white with blonde hair and working on their TV channels and absorbing
in their culture. And I do think that it's worked better for working in some of the countries that I've worked in, and I love absorbing myself in the culture. And you know, when I work in India and Pakistan and these places, I love wearing the local clothes, I love eating the local food.
I love like I want to absorb the world around me.
And I think being the bright pageant blonde hair that I was, without even really giving it too much thought, I've just I've slid into life as a brunette, which is, yeah, sort of worked for these these industries that I work in and these countries that I work in a little bit more.
I don't.
Sometimes my clients have told me that's the case as well. Yeah, like I think blonde would have just been a little bit too different. You know, we want people to warm to you, and I think, yeah, working in some of the places that I've worked, it's been, Yeah, it's been.
It's been a good thing, so fascinating, and I love watching you doing presenting work in traditional local dress and doing dancers with your fellow hosts. It's just it's amazing to see. I think that's something amazed. There's so much I want to talk to you about, and I'm like, god, like, I know, get what could do for hours?
Sorry, that was really long winded, all of that stuff. I don't know if that's that's relevant.
But yeah, I think I think in terms of dying my hair, it was for a job and it's just stayed that way because I've enjoyed playing another character for a while, being a brunette and as a performer. Yeah, you sort of used to putting on, putting on a face for work or a week for work.
Or whatever it is, and I'm just brunette erin for now and I'm loving that. I maybe I'll go.
Red one day, probably go about people knows, because the maintenance is play too much.
Every three weeks I'm getting my rates done. I'm sorry.
You're like the opposite of most people. It's so interesting. You're like a packet brunette. I didn't even know a word.
I'm so I'm so naturally fair.
It's crazy, but.
You know, I again, I'm a sucker for feedback.
People like the brunette hair, and I think people know more than me about most things, so I'm going.
To be brute lovely neighborhood.
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You'll get goosebumps, spine tingles, tiers of despair, and tiers of hope. It is streaming from August fifth, so it's out and no out. Do not miss out. Oh my gosh, you have such a fascinating story. I would love to talk more about working in Pakistan and India and long distance. I feel like we need to do multi parts to this episode, but like, well, but I think while I've
got you for this first episode. I think one thing that has been quite recent for you that is current for me as well, that is still not openly spoken about enough, but that you have been incredibly, incredibly honest and raw about in a way that I think has given so many people comfort education, Like, I just still can't believe how little I know about my own body.
So I would love to get into this section now while I have you, and that's to just talk about the fertility journey, which is something that as perfectionists, you sort of say, like, this is my timeline, my body will fit into how I want this to work, and unfortunately and rudely, that is not how nature actually operates. So can you tell us, as much as you are comfortable with how it has unraveled for you, how you
started the process, what your timeline originally? Was The biggest question I've had is what tests you actually did and then you know what the journey's been.
Like, Yeah, I mean mine's only really just beginning, and I could still talk to you for another hour about how it's all sort of panned out for me so far. But I did Essays Australia last year and as part of the show, you do a lot of medicals.
You do psychological assessments, you do physical assessments.
And around the time of getting these tests done in order to be allowed on the show, I was talking to my friends. A lot of my friends now are starting to have children, and of various degrees of success. Obviously, now as I'm learning more and more, there is no straight line to a successful pregnancy and a successful birth. There is so much that can happen and so much that takes for it to even to even get pregnant.
But being around so many of my friends going through it, so many had said because I'm very career focused, I'm very career orientated, I still think I'm twenty five in the head.
I'm obviously not.
I'm thirty three years old now, but in my brain I sort of I wasn't really there yet. My husband, on the other hand, is so clucky. He's like, give me, give me, give me babies. But for me, I just wasn't really there yet. We have a long distance relationship as well. He's based in Brisbane and oversee I'm in Sydney. A lot of factors for why the time wasn't right right now. But I came off the pill after doing SAS Back in May last year, and before I got on the show and was doing my medicals, I did
a simple AMH test. My friends had said, just get the blood test, like it's really easy, and my doctor at the time kind of fought me on it and said, yeah, but it doesn't mean anything, and I don't want you to freak out because it might come back a certain way because quantity does not equal quality, which is something that became very apparent for me later on down the track. Don't read too much into it. I'll do it if you want, but okay, it's like all right, fine, well
eighty bucks, I'll do it anyway. I did the test, and my test came back at the very low end of normal or high end of poor, as Ben Blacks to tell me.
So he's like, you need to get on this asap. It's the high end of poor.
I'm like, it's the low end of normal.
Yeass half empty. But I went okay, and the information wasn't surprising to me. I've been on the pill since I was sixteen years old. Not great at the whole one per day thing. Absolute scatter brain. Never ever had a remote whoopsie or a late period or because I never had a period. I was on the pill for such a long time, and I've been an emic off and on when I was a bit younger. So my doctor also said, don't even worry about having the withdraw bleed.
Just keep going on the active pills because it's not an actual period anyway, you didn't ovulate, Okay, cool. So I did that for sixteen years. I finally came off the pill after says because I thought.
Well, you know, we're married now. If it happens, it happens.
Let's you know, let's just sort of see I've been in the pill for a really long time. And so many of my friends had also said it might take a long time for you to get your cycle back, which is something that everyone kind of says as well. So I came off the pill and I just didn't get a period for months, and I like, okay, and everyone goes, oh, you know, just give it a bit longer.
It can take time.
Hard.
It took me a year.
Oh it took me two years. You know, all the things that you hear from other friends and family when you chat to them about it, and one thing about me too, which I think has served me really well. And why I decided to speak about this is I am a really open person, and I came from a family that were necessarily super open with their emotions and what they were feeling. But for me, being open and being very vocal has helped me cope. And and I'm also someone who if you look me in the eyes
and say are you okay, I can't lie. So when I started going through everything that I'm about to touch on, for me, it actually was it's cathartic and it's therapeutic for me as well as the fact that it seems to be for other people. So so sharing is as much for me as it is for for everyone else that ed it does. It does really help me. But
so I didn't get my period back. It got to November of last year and Ben, my husband again, he's like, right, okay, low end DePaul, we need to like go on, is like, and I'm like, babe, babe, Like I don't think I'm there yet, Like this is this would work? He goes, no, no, no, but like if you don't have a lot of eggs, like we've got to We've got to put him in the freezer.
We've got to put him in the ice trail a lot.
Let's get it ready to go, Like he makes a room.
Literally, he's he's so, And he asked around all of our friends up in Brucebee.
He found a doctor who came very highly recommended. He booked us in to go and have a consult. He did everything going, I'll get around to it. It's fine.
So he's very proactive, is my darling husband. And we go in to see this fertility doctor together. I'm like, hey, x y zed, I have a low AMH. It was a six point four on this first reading, which is a low end.
Of normal number.
As I mentioned before, and basically, as we know, we start with a certain amount of X when we're born where we don't know.
That's something that I'm learning is people's information.
On this is fast.
Don't assume most people don't know anything about their body.
Born with a certain number of eggs and that decreases until we hit metopause. So on the scale, I was very much down towards the bottom. And so he's talking to us, the doctor's talking to us. He's like, great, Like we'll just do some tests. We'll do some genetic tests. We'll see you know, there's many, many things that you
know come into play when it comes to fertility. Let's just do all the blood tests, and oh, let's do a pelvic ultrasound as well, because we'll just check that, you know, you've got all the right tubes and ovaries and what your uterus looks like, yadda yady. So it does the internal so fun.
Just for everyone listening, if you have listened to the episode a couple of weeks ago, you'll know that this is the exact stage that I am at right now. So the AMH test is the blood test that measures how many eggs you have, and then if you get a certain remember not the quality, just the quantity. And then the pelvic ultrasound is kind of what completes that picture. So where parallel is happening at this point.
So he gets up in there.
They're so fun, so fun, love an internal ultrasound and he goes, h oh, it's not a good sign. What he goes, well, you've got a lot of eggs. And I was like, huh, I thought I had no eggs. And he goes, yeah, look and he, you know, moves the lovely contracture of the one side and it looks like honeycomb.
Did you see all the little circles, The little circles, He.
Goes this honeycomb, They're all follow calls and I'm like, okay, he goes, We'll go to the other side. So rap away to the other side. He goes, and that side has even more and I was like, what he goes, You've got thirty five plus the average woman has around six to ten. Apparently during a cycle, I had thirty five.
He's like, this.
Doesn't make sense to me based on your AMH.
Which was very low.
Let's repeat the test plus another whole bunch of tests which will tested for genetic disorders and other fun things. Will test bend, will test bend sperm, We'll see what he's like, and we'll reconvene.
So they've done these tests.
They did a blood test, that they did a sperm test, They did the AMAH again on me, and of course I ended up going.
Overseas for work. So when we got these results, I was on.
Wasn't even a zoom call because they're banned in the UAE, but it was Yeah, no video calls in the UAE, but I.
Spent hundreds of dollars calling.
Australia to get the results of these tests, and it came back that I actually had an incredibly high AMH of thirty four point four. I think it was at the time, completely other end of the spectrum, and I actually had something called PCO. It's not PCs, which is polycystic ovarian syndrome. I just have polycystic ovaries or multi systic ovaries as it's called. And basically, I have so many eggs during my cycle that my brain never ever
gets the que to ovulate. And if you don't ovulate, then you don't have an egg released from your ovary, and the space that egg has left is what usually cues the brain to cue the uterus to shed its learning and have a period. So I just didn't ovulate ever. And he said, look, it's really hard to tell. I can't see any evidence of you having had a cycle. With the number of eggs you have, you might only have a period once or twice a year.
For someone like you.
I would suggest IVF because I can make you ovulate, but it's a lot of drugs and it's very hard on your body to only have a small percentage of a chance each cycle that a woman has when she is trying to fell pregnant, which as I've learned, is very low anyway, or if you're going to put yourself through your body through that amount of hormones, you've got a much better success rate of IBF. I think that is what is going to have to happen for you.
And I remember just completely breaking down overseas, like I put the phone on mute and I just kind of bore my eyes out. And it shocked me because as someone who wasn't wanting to get pregnant tomorrow or really even getting the head around it was just going, yeah, okay, great, let's you know, bank some things in the freezer, ready to go when the time is right.
It shocked me at the sense.
Of devastation I felt at the lack of this ever being a normal process. Like all of a sudden, I was thineking, Wow, I'm never going to get excited and do a pregnancy test and you know, oh surprise, were pregnant. Like I'm it's always going to be clinical and organized and very very very expensive and very hard on my body. And it's just just the loss of any normality around the process really hit me really hard. And then it turned out that I had another couple of issues as well.
I carry a couple of genetic little nasties, which I'm not at the end of the world, like some of them can be treated with folic acid. There's a few things that can be done. But luckily Ben was all good to go and great, so very thankful that it's only one of us that has infertility issues. I can't imagine for couples who have both sides have issues. It becomes obviously incredibly difficult to conceive the more issues you have to contend with.
But I felt shit, I felt broken.
I felt as a perfectionist, like when your body fails you, like physically fails you.
It's so personal, like wow, the one thing you're supposed to be able to do.
And don't get me wrong, like I don't think women will put on this earth to breed, like we are so much more than the fact that we reproduce. But that primal feeling of.
Like, yeah, you can't even do this, like really, like what do you mean you can't do this?
It was a lot, and I think the confusion of not feeling like I was even close to being ready, but then being so upset and so devastated about It was really hard to get my head around and sit in those feelings and not even understand why I was feeling the way I was feeling. And then I don't know about you, but I went down that path of like, is this the universe saying that you're not meant to be your mother? Like you?
Is this even your path?
But then you know, the rational side of my brain, we're kicking and I go no, Like, I know so many amazing women in my life who've had infertility issues and they are the best mothers in the world. They were meant to be mothers. But when it's yourself, you just can't get that perspective. It's it's just it's a lot. And I think it's been my tagline the entire way through it is like this whole process is a lot
to get your head around. And from there, you know, we've now done two rounds of a collection and Embrewers first round ended up in nothing, and that really hit me for six again, like I felt like putting my body through all of that, the huge exorbitant cost of it, and even with a Medicare rebate, which I'm lucky enough to be, you know, have access to being in Australia and having someone who who has issues, I can get
around half back on medicare. It's still you know, around six seven thousand dollars around after the rebate for the first one to end up and absolutely nothing. That truly felt like my safety net had broken, and I didn't know what to do because you know, you go, okay, well, you know, I'm not ready yet, but I'm going to put these little bad boys away and then when I'm ready,
I'm going to get my head around that. And then when there was nothing to put away and to go through injections twice a day, and like I found the hormone swings really difficult. I know Ben has found the hormones, but I do.
Not care because you have to deal with mate.
The skin, Like I've always been very lucky to have good skin, and my skin has just said fuck you. It's just been a lot and for the first round to you know, result in absolutely nothing, because again there's no guarantees even with emberors, there's no guarantees that the
embryos will take. And then I'm sort of not even at the stage where I'll be dealing with transfers and the scene that they call the two week weight, which is after the transfer, you have that two weeks to see if it's actually taken if you are pregnant, and then there's obviously still a chance of miscarrying at any point in your pregnancy, but IVF pregnancy is for whatever
is and already even higher chance of miscarrying. So there's to look at the journey and it to have already felt like so much and to be like, but you're still down here and there's all of this to go has been a lot. So I'm about to start my third round of egg collection. My second round was a lot more successful. I ended up with three Embreys, which
is great, and mindu, that's from twenty two follicles. So you go in with twenty two follicles thinking that you're going to have twenty two little chances, and it becomes like the hunger Games, like anyone who's pluns with IVF literally aside the egg hunger Games, and you start off
with like a big number, hopefully if you're lucky. Some women go through all of this stim cycle and the end up with a few, but you have your number, and then each day it just they call you up and they go oh, there's this many left, and then there's this many left of this grade, and there's a few of this grade, and then you know, all of a sudden, you're left with zero, like my first round or three, which is actually considered pretty successful, three out of nineteen.
Really they're pretty shitty odds.
Yeah, for a typically a plus student, that's hard, hard percentage to get you around.
Better than zero.
But it's just it's just it's a lot. And then they get frozen.
And because of the way that my body works, they've already sort of said to me that a fresh transfer, which is where after you do your cycle, as it suggests, rather than freezing, they'll do a fresh a fresh transfer to hopefully, you know, get you pregnant. Probably isn't going to be how it's going to work for me anyway, because I don't really have a lining, I don't have the right hormone levels. I'll have to go on pgestion, vaginal suppositories and all.
Sorts of the joys. The joys. You could write a musical about this. You should literally make an IVF musical.
It would be r rated because there would be a lot of swearing and.
So much vagina talk.
I mean, then there'd be a whole monologue of fuck you, I hate you.
No, it's a lot.
And the one thing I would say as well is, you know, everyone's journey is completely different, and I never would want to give anyone advice and anything because the way that your body responds and what it responds to and how it works is so completely different. And there's so much that we still don't know about fertility and about our bodies. And I've got friends who have successfully had many children who I'm teaching them how they got pregnant because you don't know.
They never had to know that. They never had to know, Like even.
Me, I go, wow, okay, so if we got pretty naturally, the sperm actually swims up the Filippian tube and meets the egg, and then it descends into the uterus and then it implants on.
The site like I thought they met in the middle and had a great time.
No, they don't.
Me and with IVF unless you do something called IXY, which is an extra charge. Again, they literally throw the egg in the sperm.
In a dish and go happy days, good luck guys, unless you pay extra.
Which Ben and I did to actually get a hand picked sperm of fantastic quality, and so one into each follicle for the best chance of fertilization. But again that's an extra cost, and then genetic testing is an extra cost. So you know, with us, just recently we had four embrewers that made it to day five, day six plasticists, which is what you call an embreer that successfully made it to that stage. One of them was chromosomally defunct,
so that's not one that we can use. So it's it's just it's such a rollercoaster, and there's so many steps that go into it, and I'm just blown away by science and so grateful that I even have an opportunity to because my great Auntie I found out, also had polycystic ovaries and was never able to have children because she's ninety and this wasn't available to her back then. So incredibly grateful that it's even a chance for someone
like me. But getting your head around the process and how much of a physical and a mental battle even this stage of IVF has been has been a real shock. And I think sharing the experience online as I mentioned a little earlier, and the has been incredibly cathartic for me and as someone who really does sort of wear their heart on their sleeve and is quite an emotional person. It does help me to be honest and to sort
of share how I'm feeling. And the number of women that have reached out to me since, and people that you and I know in this industry as well, who I had no idea had gone through this. Since it's so much more common than you think, and there's so many of us who are going through this, I just hope those of us who are comfortable and willing to share do it because it is helping people to see
other people going through the same thing. And I would never push anyone to share anything that they're not comfortable sharing. But luckily for me, I guess it is something that I'm able and willing to share, so I know, for me personally, when I started going through this in November last year, all I wanted was to find other people to relate to and to listen to, and maybe who hadn't necessarily finished their journey, whether or not it was positive or negative, but to find people to go along
with it in real time was really nice. So that's kind of why I decided to put it out there and share and you know, see if anyone it would help anybody else, because it was certainly helping me.
I mean it's helped me so much personally, being like that little bit behind you in time even to know what these tests are called, Like, I had never heard of an AMH test before. I had never understood that
polycystic ovaries and polycystic ovary syndrome were different. So when I did the same, I had the AMH result being very high and thinking, oh, I'm super fertile, and then in the pelvic ultra sound being like you've got a lot, but I think it's polycystic, and then thinking it was peacos and being like, oh my god.
And because then you google that and to all of our gals out there who have peacause, I really sympathized because I can't imagine having the issue is that just say you and I have, but then having the actual cysts and the fun things that come with the syndrome.
It's you know, it's a really really difficult, you know thing to have, or you know the girls that have endometriosis that's incredibly painful and there's an extra surgery often of scraping away the end door before you can even get to doing you know, the part that I'm doing at the moment.
So it's a really broad thing in fertility, and there's.
So many things that can you know, go into having being diagnosed with having infertility, Like there's it's just such a broad spectrum of things. And yeah, I just it's a lot. It's a lot, and I often don't really know how I feel. And each day it can be completely different. Some days I'm really up and I'm positive.
Other days I'm just like fuck this, Like I just you know, sitting in a car and rejecting yourself before you go into work that day, or in a public toilet or in an airport toilet or you know, it's bruising as well and bloating because when you've got PCO like I do and you do, Sarah, when you go through IVF, and essentially you're pumping yourself full of hormones to blow up these follicles all the same time for them to be harvested.
Great word half.
They usually call it egg collection these days, but it was an egg harvest back in the day that they're taken out. If you've got twenty two follicles that all grow to be over twenty millimeters each. You've got over the size of grapefruits sitting inside of you. So you know, if you think of the size of a really nice, juicy grapefruit, having that kind of packing that heat for two weeks.
In size, it's actually really uncomfortable.
So God, yeah, so it's a lot, but it's a lot.
I think the more the more people like you are open. And I had a similar thing of like, I don't want to announce this because then the pressure that it puts on you to do it quickly, because suddenly everyone knows that the temptation is to keep it so secret and to keep it behind closed doors. But for similar reasons, I thought, like Nick and I have this element of I'm adopted and his mum was adopted, so we don't
even have like medical background to look at. My mum went through IVF in Monash ivf's first ever round of IVF, and even I didn't know what IVF involved because I've just never asked her, Like there's so little information out there, and even hearing you explain sort of that it involves injecting yourself, I think people don't even know that. People don't even know it's an option or how you would
even get there. And I think you have been so incredibly brave in sharing that journey in real time, because it is so different to hearing once you have a child going back and going, oh it was really hard at the time, hearing how you're feeling when it fails, how that does mess with your mind and something that resonated so much, and I think a lot of women in their thirties in this generation will be really feeling the sort of feels about is you saying it's one
thing to desperately want this to work and to feel like a failure when it doesn't, but it's even more when you don't actually even you're not desperately wanting the child tomorrow. Yeah, we've had COVID, so we've come out of this three years, three years biologically older, but three years less of experience in life, Like we haven't been able to do anything.
You feel like you've been robbed of that time.
And I think the most frustrating thing, as well as what it means to be a woman has changed so much, and it's like biology hasn't caught up with our progression in society, and these years where we are killing it in our careers and we've been working our way up to this point. Is that's the time that you really at the last legs of fertility for many ways, and you kind of.
Feel like, I don't want to choose. Why do I have to choose between the two? Why I kind of have both?
But realistically, there will be a step that is taken back when you fell pregnant and when you first have a child, at least for a little while, it's inevitable, and it's so frustrating when you're like, why, body, Like why do you want to have kids when you're a teenager or two?
I know you forty, Like, it's.
Just so frustrating that, you know, we've had this amazing evolution of yeah, of what it means to be a woman in this.
Day and age, but our bodies have caught up with the program, Like you know why why that elongated as well? Like it's it's very frustrating, and you know, I know future Eron definitely doesn't want to miss out on this part of life. Just current erin getting her head around how it fits in and how it works, and when you when you're married to an athlete who spends six months plus of the year overseas. I don't want to
do it on my own. I don't, but I don't want my body to, you know, not allow me to do it when I'm ready and do will I ever feel ready?
Because I don't think many women do.
And for someone like me, it's a real shame that it couldn't have happened naturally, because then the decision might have been taken that out of my hands and I wouldn't have obsessed over the timing so much. It's you know, it's happened, and it was meant to be this way and great, but for me, it's always going to be clinical and calculated, and I'm sad that it won't be as much of a you know, a surprise and a joy. It's going to be a relief or a disappointment.
Yeah, I wish. I wish it could be.
I do still agree with the fact that it will ever be quote unquote normal. But the more I learn, the more I realize that no one ever really has a normal sea anyway. So it is what it isn't And you know, for however I'm feeling, whatever I'm going through, there's definitely plenty of other women going through the same thing, and you know where a little underground army, as I say, And there's so many of us, so many of us
who go through it. So you know, to everyone who's reached out to me, thank you and have shared some really really personal stories with me, Like I read everything, I respond to everything, and I so appreciate it. And you know, I'm rooting for everyone whatever whatever your journey is with this, whatever you choose, like, I really hope it works out for them.
Oh, Aaron, that's just so beautiful. I know you don't want to sort of give anyone advice because the journeys are so different, but perhaps a couple of questions that might be sort of instructive, just anecdotally. One of the questions I got asked was, how do you be really happy for friends who do feel pregnant naturally or who do seem to have a bit of an easier journey and those at our age the announcements are all the time. How do you celebrate, like sort of detach your experience
from happiness for them. But grieving is the word to use. I think it is grieving for the loss of that natural surprise journey. How do you still celebrate for people you love?
See, because I'm at a stage where I'm not trying to get I'm not going through transfers at the moment. I think that this may change later on down the track. At the moment, I feel something when people tell me they're amazing news, I'm not really sure how to put it into words. I'm still so excited it and so over the moon for my friends, and I think I
will always be that way. But that little pang in the heart is it might be getting ever so slightly stronger, but it's not really at that point because I haven't gone through transfers and failed transfers yet, like unfortunately so many women do when they get to that point.
Because I'm not there yet.
I think I'm still quite okay with that part of it. And I'm a really empathetic person, and I think I will always be just so excited for anybody who's excited about something that they're telling me, and you know.
How great, like I would never want.
And it's already happening with some friends who have felt scared to tell me, and I'm like, no, I'm so happy for you, Like I don't want this for anybody. I'm so glad that you know it's worked out this way for you, and it may not always be that way. I might wake up tomorrow and feel differently, but at this point it's, you know, I guess because I'm not actually at that that live transfer, you know, two week wait time after time period. Yet I'm not kind of
feeling those feelings. So I'm still I'm very very happy and very very thankful that, you know, people in my life are not having to go through this, because I wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's so much harder physically
and mentally than I ever would have thought possible. And as I keep reiterating, I am still very much at the beginning of this journey and very aware, I think because I like to educate myself too on the possibilities, and you know what my body will be put through in the future is it may be very hard, and it may also take time for any of these embryos
that we managed to get to take. So I think I'm I'm trying to keep it real because on one hand, I've got my husband, to bless him, he was glass half empty when it came to my acut.
But he's glass half full with everything else.
He's like, yay, we've got three babies. We've beanies on at a test tube and I was with a great hard in their hand.
I said.
I was like, well, God help them if they're not athletic. But you know, I need to manage he's expectations a little bit. And I think that's something that you know, women who are going through this with male partners will probably struggle with because there's just so much they don't understand about women and what we go through anyway, and managing his expectations on how this is all going to work, Like you know, when we first found out we had IVF, he's like, that's okay.
It means we can plan. When I'm like, no, no, no, no, this is just this is.
A chance to get pregnant. This is not a guarantee thing. And I don't want to be pessimistic, but I also.
Want to be realistic.
And I think it's good that he is positive because if he was negative, like I can be about it, it would be.
So much soul story.
But yeah, it's managing your partner's expectations too as well, which I found really difficult and me just leaving random podcast episodes for him to listen to things just I just think you should listen to this or you know, from a male's perspective of what it is to go through. And another thing as well is the number of men that have reached out with malfactor and fertility has been.
Really eye opening and that's fascinating.
And the sense of guilt that sometimes they say they feel because the woman still has to go through IVF even if she has no issues. If there's malefactor and fertility, that's just the way it works. So there's almost another layer of their part is so small in so many ways of physically and emotionally what they go through, but it's so emotional still as well, because.
You know, it's your partner and it's your child.
And yeah, I think that was really interesting as well to hear them sort of speak out and talk to me about how they were feeling and watching their partner go through that when they go well it's because of me, Well, you know what, it's you guys together and this is your journey and just you know, be there for one another. I think that's just so important. Just try and support each other as much as you can. Through it because
it's not easy for anyone. And I know I'm guilty of forgetting how Ben feels sometimes because I'm like, you.
Don't know, say no words, and you'd be like, what am I getting to share? But I don't know. There are many lines answer my question.
He's luckily for me, he's a very calm, very level headed person and I'm the emotional crazy before anyway in the relationship, let alone when I'm stimmed to the eyeballs full of what.
Yeah, well, so you've done a collection and then there's obviously, you know, procedurally different phases of IVF from what you'll be going through.
So what is next?
What are the next steps? And even if you don't want to give anyone else advice, maybe what would you give future erran as advice for navigating the next chapters?
So next steps?
To me, I've got three embrros on ice, but in an ideal world, should we get to choose Ben?
And I would like two children.
So the chances of a transfer taking for someone of my age is around thirty percent, So probability maths tells me I need at least seven mbrro So I need to keep going with my egg collections until I managed to get at least seven embryos, is what my doctor has advised me. So I'm about to undertake my third round. I'm going to see the doctor in a couple of days.
And because I don't get a cycle, they put me on the pill and then take me off it each time to create some sort of a yeah, there's a lot of hormones.
A lot of hormones going on, so you're doing life.
Again, I do, I don't know. I yeah.
So I get put on the pill and then taken off each time as well. So it takes me a little longer between cycles because I don't have one.
Which is great.
So I'm on the pillar again at the moment I'll go and see the doctor. He'll do another internal ultra sound. He'll check that I've held up okay from the last egg collection. Having a lot of follicles also means a lot of needles, So in IBF, basically a needle isn't certain into each follicle and the follicles drained and hopefully within that there's an egg. Sometimes there isn't, but because it's twenty two, usually for me needles each time. They
just need to make sure that everyone's healing up. Okay, Yeah, so I'll go back and see the doctor and then Bet and I've kind of got an idea in mind next year as to when we'd like to start trying to transfer.
In a perfect world, We'll see how I feel.
I'm trying to put any pressure of myself in terms of that, and I'll be guided by my doctor as to when the time is right for me physically as well. They also suggest seeing a counselor when you go through IVF. It's not something that I've done personally yet, but I think it's really I think it's really important, particularly if you're not someone who likes to talk to everyone around.
Them about what they're going through.
I would absolutely recommend, you know, getting those feelings and those thoughts out with professional And then in terms of what I would say to future Erran is you know, Eve, I think knowledge is power, and if it's as simple as getting an AMH test the starting point going and chatting to a fertility doctor if children is something that you think you might like in the future, even if it's not now, I think knowledge is power, And you know, if I'd known I had PCO years ago, maybe it
wouldn't made a difference as to when I started this.
I don't know.
I can't go back in time, but I think fertility is one thing that sticking yourhead in the sand and hoping everything works out for the best doesn't kind of really work that way. So yeah, I would say I would say sooner rather than later. If children is something that you see in your future, just ask the questions, Just book an appointment, ask the questions. Find out your own personal situation. You know the blood tests that Ben and I did in terms of finding out about our
genetic situations. You know Ben and his side of things. It's just it's good information to have. And then once you've got the information, you can figure out what it is that you want to do together. And for my friends out there who are you know, single and haven't found a person yet that they want to settle down with, I'd say, yeah, a conversation of you know, where do I sit in that range of eggs and how many I have? How much you know, how much time do
I have in a perfect world. I think it's just it's just good information to have for you. And if it is on the lower side and you want to freeze eggs as a as a safety net.
Great, do it. I don't think you'll ever regret that decision later on down the track.
So yeah, I think not knowledge is power, and just biting the bullet and going and asking the right questions.
I think, yeah, it's great, and you know, knowing what I know now, I wish I had twenty seven year old eggs, but I don't. I have thirty three years.
We're just going to have to come to terms with that.
So yeah, I think I think that's probably the one advice that I would say is, I know it's really scary, and the answer is that maybe we don't write, we don't feel like we're ready for right.
Now, but you can't avoid mortality. Yeah, and biology. So I think that's what I would say.
I admire you so much and I'm so grateful that you've shared so openly today. I feel like many many listeners will be really really either reassured or feel heard or understand a little bit more about what they perhaps could be doing.
Now.
There's just so many parts of this story, and I've already kept you for so long, but I'm so grateful. I have so much, so much love and admiration for you. I do have one last question. There's usually a lot of finishes, but I think this one's just probably the
most relevant. Given that so much of your day and year is taken up with something that is so challenging and so emotionally consuming, that there has to be some way for you to still find little moments of joy and to be able to still see the light even on days where there is so much darkness. And I think that's something overall that anyone going through anything needs to be able to do for themselves. So how do you,
amongst all of this still find the yay? What are the small things in life that remind you to smile even on those really hard days.
I'm a people person and surround myself with the people that I love, like that's what pulls me out of any funk. Like I I live alone when I'm in Sydney, and so when I'm away from Ben it gets a little bit harder. But you know, it's catching up with friends,
it's going for a coastal walk here and couldie. It's it's physically getting myself out of my funk, whether it's to get up and go and see your friend or to get outside and go to the beach and feel the fresh air and just yeah, I think I think it's it's physically removing myself from the rut that I mean, because I you know, like anybody, we can get get so down and so overwhelmed and you know, overrun by life.
And this has been a big, a big one for us, you know, this this year really when we've been going through this. But it's it's you know, spending time with the people that you love, and it's physically getting out and you know, breathing in that beautiful fresh air and and just reminding yourself that life is is incredible and it's got its ups and its downs, and this is just one of the you know, things sent to challenge me in mine but you know, we roll on and
we get through it. And I think sharing for me has also been really important for my mental health. So thank you to everyone who has reached out and converse with me about this, because it's, yeah, it's it's a lot, and yeah, it's okay to sit in those feelings too, as much as we try to move through them and run away from them. I think I think sitting in them is and processing.
Is just as important.
So yeah, and chocolate. Love chocolate fed me chocolate when I when.
I'm on these cycles, I can't you know, I'm not drinking or anything like that as well, So I'm like chocolate. It is.
One of my favorite quotes is you were assigned this mountain to show others can be moved. It was sent your way because you're strong enough to deal with it. Do you have any favorite quotes to leave us with?
Oh, gosh, that's a He's find that on me.
That's a big question. I know favorite. I should have said it to you before it's the finisher.
I'm just trying to think. I actually have like a little note.
I actually do have one, and very fittingly, it came from a music talent show, but it came from America's Got Talent, and there was a singer called Nightbird and she said, you can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy.
Oh oh erin.
Yeah, I just think it's yeah, And you know, for.
Her personally, her story was absolutely incredible and and she she isn't with us and he wore this particular performer because she she had cancer, but it.
Resonated with me. So much, and yeah, I think that's you know, whatever it is.
Everyone's life has a different path and a different journey, and what is hard an inverted commas for me is going to be very different to it's hard for someone. But it's all relative and it's all hard, And yeah, I think there's in any situation, there's always lie at the end of the tunnel.
That is the most beautiful way to feel.
I got through the whole thing without crying. I was actually going to say, you made it so far, and then I ruined it all that's fun, it's fine, we did well.
It's a lot.
That's the tagline, and I know, I know I should put that underneath. It's like your little caption erin thank you so much. You are just an incredible, incredible human being and I am so so grateful for you today and every day.
Thank you.
Oh it never goes past me. What a privilege it is that people trust this beautiful neighborhood so much with their stories in such vulnerable moments of their lives. As I've mentioned before, ours are just two among a million different experiences, and I'm sure there's a lot we didn't cover in the spaces between what we've been through or
going through. But there is just so much to the conversation about fertility and conception, and I think we're taught so little at a time that gives us enough notice to actually do something with So I so appreciate people as well known as Aaron being so raw and generous with their stories to help encourage more conversation and awareness
around what's involved. And I would love you, Yeaghborhood, to show your gratitude by helping share the episode and tag at eron v Holland and ask with your insights or takeaways so that we can keep the conversation going but also show erin our love for everything that she shared. If anyone is interested in any further episodes on the topic or expert Q and as you know, we're always open to suggestions and requests, so please just send us
an email or a DM. On a very different note, but it's sort of connected, I guess, to the fertility conversation. The adoption episode is also coming up, which is another beautiful conversation and I can't wait to share that to our listeners on their own journeys however that may be unfolding. I'm sending you all the love in the world and in the meantime, I hope everyone is having a great week and seizing their yeay