Effie Kats // On fashion, failure and flames of a phoenix

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I felt like I was completely lost enough track, and I'd give myself anxiety and have these panic attacks.

But really it was.

All falling into place. So if there's any advice I can give, it's let it fall into place and take the lessons that you're meant to take from each piece of your journey. And that's when I learned, you know what, No, I'm not doing this to myself anymore. I'm loving myself. I'm nurturing myself. I'm supporting myself through my failures, and I'm accepting me flaws it all. I think accountability, personal accountability, absolutely anything you want to do in life is so important.

Welcome to the C's the YA Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those found lives they adore the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day will bear

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited.

I'm so excited to be here.

I do not know how it has taken me this long to have you on the show. You know, I've admired you for so many years, totally look up to you, love you to death. You're amazing. It is such an honor to have you.

Well, the feeling's mutual.

Oh my gosh. Before we get into your story, and one of the things I think is so important and I love to kick off the show with, is just ask everyone what the most down to earth thing is about them, and particularly for someone like yourself who has such a big, very immaculate social media and media presidence.

I think I can never match my socks, no way, never matched my socks now the fashion and one black sock on right now, stop it my sock or bras and undies for that matter. Never, never, never, I.

Would have thought that you were just relentlessly coordinated.

Considering I am pretty O C D with a lot of things I don't I don't match what's going on underneath.

That shocks me, shocks me, but makes me feel so much better.

I don't know why that was the first thing that just came to my head, but yes.

I love that you've blown me away. I seriously, every time I see you, I'm like, you were so immaculately put together, Like the nails match, the bag matches, the blazer matches, the undies like what can.

I just say as well that my favorite favorite undies are from b.

W Oh my god that I was about to really bother with what Granny I didn't say that the.

Five pack ones from like big w Yes, they're my og stop it.

I feel like the whole of Australia feels better about themselves actually, like I choose.

Those like you could give me lazy underwear from like Agent Provocateur and I'd be like, no, give me my I want my big dogs, my my five pack.

Your five pave such good value, such good value, affordable entree.

I try to get the neutral pack, you know, because the crazy.

Patterns are not really my jam, but you know, but they're always sold out myself.

I get what I am.

I get what I get. Lady of the People, you are the every woman right now. I love this so underneath all of your incredible fashion week big w Jackson, this makes me extraordinarily happy. I am a granny undie girl. But if I have to not be granny undie because the outfit requires it. It's minor cotton and body like four pack, the seamless ones.

I can't do the granny undies because not get wedgies.

And then I'm picking them out. I'm like, nah, just during a series is up there?

You forget it's up there.

You're right, they are wegie prone. They are prone. This is it's difficult. It's hard being a girl.

It is.

It is hard for being a girl.

There's just so much on.

I mean, I love that. What a great way to start five pack, not even sponsored. Just kidded.

I shouldn't be putting this out there because now they're going to be even less available to me.

So do you end up with the floral ones because that's all that's available?

Yeah? I think right now, I have like navy blue poke dot ones.

James is a lucky man.

My sister's all about the sexy laingry and she's like, f.

Nah, do you know I always think, you know, some people, like on Valentine's Day they're like, oh, I've got my little nurse out there. Nick would laugh at me, he would He's going to just be like, what the fuck are you wearing?

Because I'm like the least sexy person.

So if I put them on James and be like what I want to do?

What you do?

What's going on with what is? It didn't quite hit the mark there, my god, where the worst?

Literally literally, oh my gosh.

All this is why I love you so much. Behind the scenes you are so normal and amazing and then just pull it together in the most I mean Vogue level, constantly Vogue level worthy, just like totally coordinated head to toe, not a hair out of place. You are just so incredible. But I love that behind the scenes you're so normal. So one thing that I love doing on the show, as you probably know, is going through everyone's way ta, which is, you know, reminding everyone of the idea that

So as a kid, I was really extroverted, but I was also super introspective, So like I was loud, I was out there, and you know, I was a tomboy with how I dressed real tomboys. So I was, you know my army like cargo pants are the spy skirl platforms with the bubble?

Can you remember that?

I do.

I wish I didn't throw mine now. Yeah, I know nineties is back in a big really bad. You have brought back ninety Sonnies in a big way. I'm just saying, do you know what's funny?

I was just saying to James. Actually, while we were in Bali the last time I was there, I bought a pair of those off the side of the road Oakley's. Yeah, but you know the cheapies at those over.

Side of the road where the O wasn't quite the same shape.

And my friend, this was like twenty seventeen, so before Kim ever wore them like I bought them. My friend was like, why are you wearing those? And I was like, mate, these are cool. Yeah, And I'm telling you now they're going to come in in a big way. And lo and behold they did.

Are they the ones you've been wearing.

So, okay, I do have one pair of potagers that I love.

You've got jas.

Friend was like they from a server.

I was like, no, no, honey, not all that.

My other pairs are from r C A trading shop. No RCA fifteen bucks, yes, stop, all colors, lots of different shapes are amazing. Fifteen bucks.

R C A is literalit to where my brother gets his r that's.

What you hear. So my red ones that I water Fashion Week that went with my dress.

R C don't that In BGWND is you are all about the contrast. I'm a thriftic out on a bou jay okay, so introspective but extrovert.

Yeah yeah I was.

So I kept a journal, okay, and my journey was sweet. Yeah. So in my young years I did get bullied, which was not a great experience, and because I didn't have all too many friends because I moved schools.

Right, so it was grade six.

It was like the last term of grade six. So everyone's made their friends, they're on their way out.

They don't really have room for new friends.

Yeah. So yeah, so for that, no, sorry, not the last It was the first term of grade six.

You moved in grade six.

Yeah, grade six, yes, Yes, had some family stuff going on, and that was really hard for me obviously on that level, but then going to a school where I had no friends. Everyone's already established their groups, no one was really interested. Also, it was a completely different demographic, so it was really rough the school that I was going to, and I was bullied and I had no friends, and I wasn't used to having no friends, and that period really shaped

Oh I love see. Even that in itself is something that I think a lot of people just couldn't imagine being part of your life being bullied or being on the outer because you're so coveted and celebrated now. But I think sometimes the strength that you get that then helped you face as we will talk about some pretty big setbacks afterwards. That strength probably started from those formative years completely.

It really shaped me. I always always like every interaction that I have with people, I'm so conscious of it, so like whether I'm at the service station or.

You know, wherever I am, I always want.

To leave people better than I found them, because I know what.

It feels like to feel so.

Yeah, absolutely bad. Yeah, yeah, so it I guess gave me that sense of empathy. And then on the flip side, I guess it did create this thing in me where because it was quite a traumatic experience, I guess I went into high school being like, I'm lucky if I have friends, you know, So it created a thing in me where I almost became a bit of a people pleaser.

Oh what does that mean? That's new? So familiar at all, not at all.

So the trauma of that experience created that where I was like, oh, I'm lucky to have friends, so I must keep them happy.

Yeah, you know, yeah, absolutely. And it's so interesting how many patterns in adulthood you can trace directly back to something that happened in your kind of totally childhood.

And I think the thing is I used to be really embarrassed of these I guess traumas, But what I've realized is one it brings out these things in us that are actually incredible qualities, like empathy and that sense of kindness and.

All of that that is so beautiful that I do see, like such a deep empathy in you. And I think for an industry that many people often dismiss as quite superficial because it's about clothing and it's about what you wear on the exterior. For you, I've always noticed a real sense of excitement when you see someone's confidence transformation.

Yeah, I think clothes is a big thing for me.

And that's it.

I'm only going to.

Show the snippets.

Yeah, yeah, right, my highlight.

Reel because yeah, well, I'm so grateful that here you I've been so open. I do want people to know that because it's I think there's so much more to the story.

But social media is a really hard place to express that because people can be really mean, and it's like, I think I'm learning how to process that and not let that affect me.

Yeah, but I'm human.

As well, So it's always going to you know.

A little Yeah, it's a weird it's a really weird world. But that makes me even more grateful for not only the fact that every interaction we've had, we've always had such a like, oh my god, I'm such a clusterfuck today, like I'm such a mix of a human Like fine, that's always been like you're always you know, in real life you share your vulnerability in persons and so openly.

Yeah, yeah, because I think that they're like, that's me and I'm not gonna not be who I am, but I do, I do really struggle to express that on social media such a scary place is.

It's really hard, and I definitely want to get to that because I think we've come up in a time where our generation is probably the last generation that remembers their life without the Internet then has had to adjust

Well, I actually studied photography.

No, yes, I studied photography.

I knew I always wanted to be in fashion. Yeah, but I saw the struggles that my dad went through. He's a tailor and making clothes is really hard. Yeah, really really, and I was like, Okay, no, I don't want to go through that. So I developed this love for photography. Well, I used to Vogue was like my escape, right,

And I would cut this out and I'd be like, this is the new.

Letarian campus scrap bookie starring Kate Mask Stop Shop by Mario Testine. So that's where I developed my love for photography. Photography, right, and they were all my idols, all the big photographers. So I went into my diploma of photography. I did that for two years. Finish that I started my bachelor and then I was like, oh see, I'm the kind of person where like I'm a perfectionist. So if I'm going to do something.

Yeah, I've I've noticed that. Yeah, You're like this needs to move one a millimeter. I'm like, babe, it's fine, it's not fine, it's it's not fun.

And literally something like that, if it comes out wrong, will bother me for dates? Yeah?

Yes, I hear that. That's a blessing and occur it is a great quality.

Yes, So but I get stuck with numbers. So I'm not a good numbers right, And there's obviously you know you speed, you got to you know, set up the shop, and I was becoming so creatively stifled by the technical aspect that I was like, I have this realization where I was like, oh, never be the best at this, because I cannot be the best, and I cannot be the best, so we must find something else.

I mean that alone now is like, that's not the thing that I was going to lead into that I think that lots of people don't know. That's a whole new thing that I hadn't even heard before. And that's the thing about going through people's lives in the chapters before they really launched, to remind everyone like people have false starts all the time.

Totally, totally.

So I dropped out.

Mum was thrilled.

Yeah, I love that, especially like hard working ethnic parents. Great, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And my mum is a partner at a law firm.

So she was darling, you've got the skills, you could do arts at Melbourne. Why don't you just give it a try. And I was like, it's just not me, mum, It's just not me. So that was the second time I disappointed her.

Yep, love it.

Then I did public relations.

You didn't know, my god, I didn't.

Even last the year. I was like, I think it was like my third assessment. I was like, you know, it was the middle of the night, it was due the next day. I was delirious and I was like, oh, this.

Ain't me, This isn't me.

There was a wedding on at the time and I had been shopping and I was a broke unie student could not afford this dress from Manning Cartel that I loved, and there was nothing between that and like Cookite.

Yeah, I saw that you were like the gap between the cartel and Cookite, massive gabing hole. Yeah, gaping hole.

And at the time I was completely idolizing like tom Ford, like the tom Ford for Good Year. I don't know why. I was just obsessed with it at that time, and I was just like, I want to be the tom Ford of the everyday girl. Oh my gosh, that's be cool.

But you have absolutely what I was struggling.

So yeah, just basically pieces that were elevated but affordable. Oh my gosh, Zachary was born there you go.

See, even like the whole idea that if you looked at your family background and saw that you know, you had a family history in fashion and tailoring and then saw what you do. Now everyone would just assume, oh you went straight there, straight line done, but like two other degrees before that, another business totally.

And can I just say like for me, like, I'm like I need to know where I'm going. I need to know what I'm doing. And when I was like flailing, I was, I say, flailing through that through that period completely.

Day Yeah, yeah, love a flail.

I was just like it's like getting all stressed out, like where's my life going to go? And I haven't got this worked out quite yet, and you know, it was like it was such a stressful time. Yeah. I was so hard on myself throughout that time because I was like, get it together.

We're like twenty two now, like what are we doing?

Old?

Yeah, what are we doing? Remember when you thought you were old at like twenty two. It's like I'm getting a lot at my god, No, it was a baby, but whatever. I didn't have like one.

Bit of botox in my face, but I didn't my god, Oh my gosh.

It's so interesting. We are so hard on ourselves to have it all together, but now looking at where you've got to, it's like all those dots connect. Now you had to go through all of that to get to the Well.

It's funny. It's just like I used those skills from those you know studies that I did, so like, you know, I didn't have that much budget when I started out with my brand, so I would shoot, you did the photograph and the PR retouch everything, and then I knew how to pr myself.

See, it's all meant to be. I always think the dots will always connect, and you don't see it at the time. You can only do it in so you.

Just have to trust exactly.

That's a big thing I've learned in my journey because I felt like I was completely lost enough track and I'd give myself anxiety and have these panic attacks. But really it was all falling into place. So if there's any advice I can give anyone, it's let it fall into place and take the lessons that you're meant to take from each piece of your journey.

Oh my god, that's my favorite. That's like the ultimate theme of CZA is that you never really know where it's going until it's like me, just actually just chill the fuck.

To render to the journey. Not completely, but.

Okay, so twenty three year old f he starts Zachary the label, which I don't know how many I can't even tell you how many people. The first time some of my friends from like high school saw me, you're tagging you and stuff, hanging out with you. They're like every from Hungary, Like that was such a formative part about growing up.

It was it was like the clubbing go to.

It was the clubbing go to. Oh my god, So tell us about that chapter. Like you were so young and you started your own business in fashion and up against you know, the Manning cartels and the cook I like, what was that? Like, what was that chapter? That was five years I.

Think because we had a product that was so unique. I identified a gap in the market and I went for it. And I think because there was that gap and me, you know, as my consumer, I was my consumer. My friends with my consumer, you know, I knew exactly what we wanted and it just took off, like you know, but on the flip side, I had no idea how to run a business.

You were like two years old, so it's probably fine.

And I had no idea how to manufacture clothes. That was a bit of a problem.

For a closed business owner, A little bit of a hiccup. Yeah.

So you know, obviously I had some background because my dad was tailor, but stretch is a completely different beast.

YEA.

So basically, in.

Short, I'm going to give you like crash course right now, love it. Stretch fabric will stretch x amount. If the stitching does not stretch the same amount, there's a breaking point, and that is what creates a faulty garment. So it has been sewn in a particular way so that there is no breaking point, right. A lot of machinists don't know. So for us, you know, we started small. We started local, and you know, we could sort of jump on issues

I can see like the trauma coming back to you.

We started in Thailand because that's where we produce our suits in Bangkok.

Oh amazing.

Yeah, So we had our own office there set up, and then we would sort of outsource work and so we started that. I remember one time my dad had gone to kind of clear some things up because they weren't stewing with the correct threat attention and he confused them and they produced half of our range with the fabric inside out.

Oh my gosh, great, amazing, great, pretty much killing it, killing it. It was great.

Any issue you could imagine that could arise did arise, And I literally learned how to make clothes on the go through mistakes and extremely costly ones. At that's how I learned.

But don't you think that's the way. Everyone like, that's the best way to learn. I mean not by losing well and then like all the times that things don't work out save you from making a big your mistake.

Next time, we made those really really bigness.

Yeah, okay, they helped me.

Now it helps, But back then there were a lot of sleepless nights.

Yeah, so many, and people don't realize and tears. I was in the fetal positions so many times in the bathroom, locking myself and being like, how are we going to get out of this? I don't know. Yeah, I can't tell you, but I always say Zachary was like my training wheels. So I ended up through that process making the ultimate mistake because I got a business partner. And I won't delve into that too deeply, but don't get a business partner.

Short answer, So that was horrible.

Essentially, I was removed and then the business went into administration before I was officially removed, so I went through that whole process as well, lost all my money. I spent five months just having a nervous breakdown and between calls from accountants to lawyers to you know, it was just in my bathrobe having a breakdown dealing with that. So that was the sort of closing chapter of Zachary. And then I was like, okay, well I've noticed another gap in the market.

I love this.

This is like the phoenix coming from It's so funny. Can I just say one of my friends had this friend out with us once and he was.

Like telling me.

He was like and I was like, oh, okay.

George, yeah, cute, cute for you.

Yeah. And then he was like no, no, I am. He's like, you want to start a brand?

And I was like, this was before Zachary, right, so.

Oh yeah right. He was like it's going to be I'm telling you right, crazy right. And then I saw him sort of as we were creeping towards the end of that cycle, and he's like, you're going to lose everything.

Oh by the way.

So I really tried to enjoy my after that, but I did not.

Yeah, And he was like, but you are keep seeing the phoenix. You are like the episodes my goosebumps. Yeah right. He was like, you will rise from the ashes and it's going to be bigger and better. And I was like, I'm.

Losing it, gosh, but that is like this is I love that you said, Zachar's your training wheels because I think even when chapters come to an end, they happen for a reason.

Well yeah, and I think the thing is people go through stuff and they're like poor me, why me? And it's just so not the right way to look at things because you just get into this cycle of depression. For me, I looked at it and I went, what role did I play in this? Down to the business ana.

You shall not be change?

You know?

Why was I at that point in my life where I felt the need to bring someone like that on? Or you know what energy was I putting out to attract someone like that? And I take full responsibility for every part of that, and that gave me peace in that process rather than blaming. And so I really during that nervous breakdown period it was really introspective. You went back to you, I went back to my roots, back to your journaled. I actually did journal.

That is so interesting that you went back to that.

So I was like, okay, well, clearly we have some character flaws that we need to smooth out.

Here are so reflective, I really am.

I love that and a curse?

Yes, yes, I agree, yeah.

Yes, so that's what I did. I was like, okay, why And I was reading this book at the time, and I recommend these books highly to anyone who's going through.

Really, I'm like, I need the name of this book.

It was called how to Heal Yourself When no One Else can. Yes, And there is this exercise. It was like I always refer back to this because it was like the most profound, like it was a really profound moment in my life. Or it asks you to list what is preventing you from living your truest, deepest light. I know it was dark, so I was like, you know, it just frighten it all out, and I'm like, oh

Cove me some slash, now, come on stopping a shit blow.

I really was, and that's when I learned, you know what, No, I'm not doing this to myself anymore. I'm loving myself. I'm nurturing myself. I'm supporting myself through my failures, and I'm accepting me flaws at all because I'm not going into this next chapter like this. I still do at times, but I really tried to be well rounded, to kind of become a well rounded.

You are so well adjusted. That is insane and that is so powerful. Just that just gives me goosebumps. That you had the choice of how you were going to approach a really shit situation.

Well, it's funny because yeah, everything really shifted from the day that I wrote that. It was like I put it out into the universe and it was really hard seeing it in black and white in front of me. But things just started to fall into place after that. I think accountability personal accountability absolute anything you want to do in life so important.

So true, and the idea that you can't control what happens to you. The situation was shit, but you can control your approach to that.

Why did it come into your life? You know?

What can you do better?

How do you need to change or evolve or you know what? Is it?

Totally? And I love the quote for that, which is that not all storms come to disrupt your life. Some come to clear a path. Because this one obviously fucked up. You know everything you had going, but to clear a path.

For what can you do? And you know what, It's interesting because I never thought that I so I put all my self worth into Zachary, and I thought Zachary was the most amazing thing because I totally wrapped up my self worth into that, right, and I didn't believe that I personally was anything great. I was like, oh, no, no, no, people don't care about me. They don't want to see me. They want Zachary, you know. And at the time I had a partner and he was like, no, you need

Trust me.

People any think I'm a try hard taking photos of my you know, like, no, we can't do that. And he was like, get up. You got no choice, you got no money, you got nothing. You've got to sell

So I was like another girl.

Yeah, I will make the brand me.

And then Effie Katz was borns was born. And I also love that because I think you are not only exactly your target market in terms of how knowing what to create, but also you wearing your stuff, especially just before it launches, is the cleverest marketing strategy. We see you wearing stuff like just before it's live, and everyone's like, where'd you get that from?

What is it?

You're like, well, I made it, it's me. And then like a week later you're like, here's the link. It's so clever.

Where we're trying to cut that timeline down now so that when I wear something it's available straight away. That's the next But.

It's kind of cool. It's kind of like scarcity model that it's like, oooh coming soon.

Well, my other passion really is like styling looks like creating a piece, but bringing the whole thing together, hair, makeup, accessories. I know, I'm like James, I need this new bag.

It just completes this.

Looks like it is important for my mental must have this new Balenciaga bag. You don't understand. It elevates everything.

Because I saved money on my Rsea sunglasses. You see exactly cool.

See the balance in the butget.

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It's the why. I mean, I watched this, I think it was a ted talk and it was like your why is so important, Like you know, you've got apple, You've got Samsung, you got you know, and everyone's buying Apple why because it's the why, it's the It's they're selling a lifestyle, they're selling you. You know, this whole package around this product. You want to be a part of it.

You know.

It's so true. And I think, like the Heights, you have taken the brand to buy, putting yourself as part of it and making it like you're the embodiment of it. But it also you represent your own brand so well and you wear it and run, you know, you wear it to events and stuff. That's what gives you that extra thing. That's what makes it so different. It means no one can replicate what you're doing because they can't replicate you.

Well, yeah, exactly, I mean genius, right, it's.

So no choice. But that whole thing about like Zachary, being your whole identity, I think that's something all of us identify with thought that a chapter of your life becomes who you are and then you don't know how to be on your person.

Yeah. And that's why I totally broke down was because all my self worth was not with me. It was in this brand and that's actually not healthy. And every time I've been sort of let down. It's because I've attached my self worth to a certain situation or an outcome or something, you know what I mean, And it's like and having this expectation around it, that's how you get let down.

Not sustainable.

It's not sustainable.

Those things will like chapters are meant to finish, they're meant to evolve, and you won't know how to rebuild yourself. So when you did sort of, I mean, one of the other quotes that I really love is that the comeback is always stronger than the setback, which it obviously has been in your I think that.

I was like, it's funny because there's this duality in me where there's this part of me that's like, yes, I can do anything. If I put my mind to something, I will achieve it. And then there's the other part that's like, you suck, you're an impostor everyone's going to figure it out, and.

It's like Clash of the Titans.

It's so true, do you know what? I think? Almost everyone who's doing anything that's a little bit different or that does require some sort of confidence also is plagued by this side of their personality.

It's like everyone's going to figure out how much you suck, and then.

No one's going to want to buy your stuff or be in front of you. No one will, you know.

I'm like, we know so common. It is so unbelievably common. And that's why we talk about it so much on the show because I I think it's easy to forget anyone has it because the US that we project often even the US that's plagued by anxiety and self doubt, totally the US that's feeling good that day or that minute.

I want to get to the point where I can express that part of myself on my social media.

I'll get there.

I'm a work in progress.

Even the fact that you talk about it, Yeah, that is already a huge step, because it's hard to even say that you experience those feelings. Yeah, and I.

Feel like that in my experience. The more vulnerable I make myself, I guess to people outside my really tight circle, then people come for you and I'm just like, no, I'm just I can't.

Yeah, it's right now. It's hard. But I also think the more you do it, and the more you set up the expectation that that's what you'll be talking about, then the louder voice has become the ones who are like, you change my life because you reminded me that I'm human. Those ones do it.

You know, I started doing that. I was talking about my anxiety. I was like, you know, this is my vulnerability, but I'm like taking charge of it and I'm going to use it for good. And I remember this message from a girl who thought she was sending it to her friend. Oh my god, no, and she was like, boo freakin' whoe.

No.

See but that's like the smallest mi But I'm sure that's what all your brain.

Well it's funny because I replied and I was like, well, actually people have responded, and I sent screenshots. I was like, look, people have responded to me saying how meaningful this is to them because I actually knew the girl really well, so.

Yeah, acquaint acquaintance.

And she was like, yeah, look, I guess it's just you know, you have so many positive things going on in your life. I just don't understand why you can't focus on those instead. Oh.

I was like, that is so difficult. I think that's a huge combination of atol poppy syndrome. That be the idea like everything is relative.

Everything is relative, and I think I think it is important to share both. I guess for me, it's working out how to share both in a way that's constructive.

And that doesn't invite that kind of Yeah, getting.

The introspective gal that I am, I was like, well, maybe I'm not expressing it way, maybe I could do it better. And then it was just like, oh, too hard.

Okay, I'm just not do that right now.

But it's so interesting that your brain thought those thoughts, like maybe I should stop this all together because of one person, when I'm sure the amount of positive messages is you got as a ratio to the one negative one. That seems funny.

It's always that one, isn't it.

It was probably one in hundreds. And that's the thing about self doubt and imposter syndrome is that it's speak so much louder than all your other thoughts about yourself.

Yeah. I think the thing was it was like, okay, well I will focus on all the good things in my life and I'm just gonna hone in on that.

Yeah. So, so how do you you know when you were starting basically from scratch and again, like now, when you say E Fiicats. Most people in Australia are like, yeah, we know the amazing, amazing label, the amazing woman. But you know, at the beginning, you hadn't used your name that often. It wasn't associated with you. Zachary was stood on its own. You were starting from beginning.

Actually, my business partner said to me, we need to take buy e Fiekats off the bio and I was like, oh, and he's like, because it's an ethnic name and you will alienate our Australian customer bank eat your words. So yeah, that was my way of reclaiming my power back as well. So I was like, I love, Actually, we are going to make a brand around my ethnic name.

And people are gonna eat that up. Ah. But at the beginning, when you you know, probably did have a lot of those thoughts coming back in. You know, when you launch something, you don't know that it's cool until it's until it's cool totally. But you have to do all the work you do in the meantime being like are people gonna like it? Aren't? They like? How did you get past the self doubt to actually start?

Never joys? I was broke, no joys.

Sometimes that's good to not have a plan be.

And again one of my friends was like, why don't you just go get a job, And I was like, she's like, you don't need to be a rock star all the time.

And I was like, wow, that's interesting advice.

It's not about being a rock star. It's about living out my dream and my passion. And there's nothing wrong with working for someone else. Don't get me wrong, nothing at all. But for me, I'm a terrible employee.

Have you been an employee? Where did you work?

I actually worked a Q for years now. I was great for you.

Stop that.

I kin't of imagine you in retail, but retail, I.

Actually worked for another boutique. Well.

I did learn a lot.

I won't say where. But my boss was very set in her ways, didn't like taking on a lot of I guess likes, and you know, we had some tense conversations around like just things that weren't right, and I was like, oh, I don't like them, and I need to be my own boss. No one's going to talk to me like this.

But that's awesome because you also need to know yourself total that kind of structure.

And I took that on as well, and I was like, I will never be a boss like that.

Yes, So I've.

Carried that on into my yeah, yess yes, yeah, I'll never be a boss like that. I will never ever talk to people like that. So that can handy to.

And that comes back to your empathy thing as well, that I think you do approach everything that you do with a very human focused and even the way that you like. I've seen you watch people put your clothes on, including myself, and go from like you know, putting on address to just feeling confident, and how you get so satisfied. I do watching you get so excited when you know someone feels a million dollars in something you created. Yeah, like that. It shows the best feeling.

It's the best. I literally live for that feeling. That's why if something is not quite right, I'm.

Like, I can't do it literally. So that was twenty thirteen. Is that when Epacat's no.

Zachary I started in twenty and thirteen?

Oh sorry sorry? And then seventeen was the end of that. Yeah, well.

Finally in twenty eighteen March and then I started up. Oh my gosh, yeah, but I had my things in yeah, yeah, okay, it broke.

Down five months of nothing else. I had to clear it because I'm one of.

Those if I'm going through something, I'm You're in it. I'm in it. Yeah yeah, and I feel things very deeply, which again blessing the curse. But it was just lost so many feels, so much.

There's a lot of feelings in this bar. I couldn't do anything else.

But the minute it was done, I was like, let's go yeah, yeah.

Oh my gosh. And so how because the team now you know what's your day to day and also like what is the proudest achievement in everything since then that you've done.

So if we're going to pin it down to something that I've done, it would be definitely our Priceline Insurance special. That was for those who don't know, that was the Festival of You and it was about embracing you know, different shapes, ages, ethnicities, you know, and we had the most incredible lineup of women and everyone got their own

That was seeing everyone feel a million dollars.

In totally feel themselves and that was that was amazing for me because that is my vision, that is what I wanted, right. So with that niche in the market that I identified was suits, suits were starting to become a really big thing overseas, and I was like, okay, good Year, you know, colored suit, It's okay cool. No one was doing it, no one was making it accessible retailers. I think we're being really conservative. And everyone was like, oh, do I make pink or do I make black? I

Yeah. Yeah, it was a phoenix.

It was dark. Yeah it was It was really dark, and I honestly was like, that's it.

I'm done forever. Baire may work again, we'll be able to cope with this.

I don't know what the hell we're going to do, but this is it.

So yeah, I think you should be extremely proud, and I think you're an amazing, amazing example of the fact that you can start again, people can start again.

And or just start. Yeah, for the I had nothing, really, I had nothing, you know, my social media pages were taken, so I started from literal scratch. Yeah, I had like six thousand followers. Yeah, and I started with that, And I started at a time where Instagram was already so saturated. Yeah, you know, so I'm on. You know, it's grown so much from from there, from that six thousand, So it's possible.

And I just I think it's just so amazing to see that you chose not to let one like hugely dark period define the rest of your journey, like oh, I'll never go into fashion again, or I'll never you know, yeah, you've used all of those lessons for the better in this chapter and gone on to like smash it thin.

Like for me, I have this process of like I'll have a complete melt on emotionally, mentally, everything, and then I'll just be like ready, right done, it's time.

We're done with that. You know. I love that, And you also honor your process. Everyone has a weird process around difficult times.

And I have that in small ways.

Now like something will happen, I'll have a complete meltdown and I'm a mess for two weeks and James is.

Like, you're stronger than this, and I'm like, I know, I am. This is my process and let me wallow.

I'm exactly the same.

And then I come out like see yeah, yeady, I'm done out of my way.

Yeah.

We had this comp of guys literally a couple of days ago. We canceled this episode because both of us were just like, come to it today, it's not my day.

I just had so much anxiety.

I was like I can't I can't speak.

Yeah, and You're like, I'm so sorry I'm canceling. I'm like, babe, I freaking love it when people cancel. It's my favorite. I love it.

I don't want to let you down, honey. I was so excited Breck today, I'm sorry. My anxiety is like.

I was still in bed and I do have those days.

And I think that's another important message, is like it's so okay to let yourself go through that and be kind to yourself. You know, I told you I was at home at my mum's house and she was like, no, you will not let this girl down. You will do this, and.

I was like, such a lawyer, I can't.

Mom Oh, I was like, of all the people, you're saying this to me. I love a cancel. I love a cancel. I just had this whole afternoon for me to be a ball and you know, in the fetal position as a mess. It was great.

And that's what because I had this tough you know, Mum was always like, yeah, are you really that sick? Though you know that sick?

You know what I mean?

Love that.

So it's also learning like.

No, no, today, I'm prioritizing my mental health. I actually can't do this. So I really really can't. And you know, we reschedule.

Life easy, absolutely, and then you're happier with the final product.

Totally because it wouldn't have been like this, Yeah I'm on today.

So if you had to say, like pick one huge goal or a achievement, like assuming you could make anything happen, you could dress anybody for any event, or create anything for anything with every cats or base, what would it be assuming that I'm going to have you back on in like five years and you're going to be like tick I did it. Oh, are you a big goals that are like that? Are you more like no? I today?

See, I think the thing is it's not so much dressing people because I did do that early days, and it's as easy as just hiring the right pr in America that has the right connections. So I just don't view that as a goal anymore because I know that will come for us. It's like, okay, until we're ready to have you know, for efy Cats where majority locally produced, the suits made overseas, so we got to get our

What I mean? Yes, Oh my gosh. We try and go way too fast.

But everything yeah, right, I have these goals for both businesses. I know where I sort of where I want them to be. They're nowhere near where I want them to.

Be, but doing great, but they're nowhere near.

But it's giving me that mental challenge to push myself. You know. It's like financial targets or you know, do I want to be stocked here, or like you know what I mean. It's hitting a percentage of sales in the US and it's like yes, like we're starting to dominate you stuff like that.

Yeah.

That which is funny because when I had Zachary, it was all about like I want this and this and this person and that's going to be the mark of my success. And I just don't see it that way anymore. It's like it's dollars in the bank now, yeah, you know which is the rest will come and I don't care because I've done it before, I do it again.

It's so interesting how much your relationship to success and how you define that changes over time. Completely so interesting.

Because I think when you go from having money yeah to having none, Yeah, you're like, oh god, having money was good, yeah, and say it's safety and right, you know, and it's like I took that for granted. I was like, yeah, we're making all this cash for whatever, you know I want Kylie Jenner. Yeah, And it's like, no, no, you need to because they're sustainable retailers that are struggling so much and you you don't realize how important it is

Yeah.

So now it's yeah, yeah, and that's mine.

That is so important. There's one part of business that's ideas creativity, but like the backbones of the business also need to totally stand up. But I think the other thing with the whole metrics of success is also the idea of measuring your life not only by success and not only by it by work. The other thing, which for a perfectionist like yourself, who loves your work and is so incredibly good at it and it is such

You know, I don't make wedding dresses. That it's a completely different process. I know it's clothes, but it is you know, couture is like.

A whole nother board art.

It's a completely different process. And that's just not what I'm training in.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to.

Know, and nor would I ever want to delve into that. It's also not what I'm personally passionate about. But I appreciate that process so much, and I think if I tried to make my wedding dress, I would be doing a disservice to that art form because it would be like me trying to do, you know, something that I've never studied. I don't know it at all. It's completely different process. And obviously we'll do our bridesmaid's stresses and I'm kind of getting ideas. But yeah, my wedding dress.

How's the flightning coming along?

It's not it's not coming Okay, when what is the furthest date we can book this for? Yeah, so we have booked for November next year.

Oh my gosh, so you have looked.

Yeah, eleven eleven was like eleven eleven hour. I was like, I'll take it.

It's need I need that number.

Eleven eleven.

Oh that's so beautiful. How exciting. Yeah, And so in your you know, incredibly busy day to day life, what do you guys do just for fun? Is there anything that you do that's like not productive or achieving that's just for joy.

So James and I both have such intense, like busy jobs. Our favorite thing is like nothing.

Nothing, that's my favorite thing. That's my favorite activity, my favorite plati nothing.

We have just baught a house. So we've recently hold the branding. Yeah, no, we're not. We're not even doing that. Like plans and permits. How don think we've submitted them. We're going to really soon and then we're going to start. But we're just so enjoying, like we have this process. We will get up in the morning, make breakfast, we'll tie up the house in theresense we're still doing something,

It's the simple thing.

My gods. Yeah, and that's it.

I love that.

I love doing that. I love doing nothing. I think we went through this period of like events, this, that and everything like so and now winter that tends to really slow down, which.

Is great, great for the like extraverted introverts.

Yes, but I'm like.

Once i'm mentally, you know, give myself up, you know for something. I'm like, okay, winter, Yeah, I'm so ready for nothing. Over the next couple of months.

We call it hiber eating on the.

That's what we're doing.

You've got to get your yay back somehow. And if you do have really intense jobs, then the playtime needs to be like chill as fine.

My friends will try to make claims like should we do brunch on Sunday and like that's James Day. That's so good.

Oh my god, I love that so much. We're the same. We have like weekends are like like if we have something, it has to be Saturday because Sunday is like there no a point at all.

Because James will be like you make plans on James on James.

I love it.

It's just I just wouldn't do it, but we dare.

But you have to have a day like that. We're allocated for for like just nothing. Yeah. I love that and I love that. Do you get guilty?

No? If I do nothing on a Saturday, I'm like you taking it really fast and start like but Sunday's fine, Yeah, but Sunday's fine.

Yeah, I'm the same. It's really weird. What's that? What's that about?

I don't know. It's like my mind's like Sunday is our day of rest. Yeah, I ress rest.

Yes of the faith literally okay. Second last question. Three interesting things about you that don't normally come up in conversation, like middle names, weird habit.

I have the worst middle name.

This is really funny. Actually, so I do have middle name.

It's hideous.

Thanks Mom for following me.

Where is it Voldemort?

Well, we have recently named so when I'm in a really fowl moved that part of me has a name, a persona.

Is it your middle name? Is that the persona? Stop it? What's her name?

Patrice?

Oh? I was gonna say Patricia was so James would be like, can Patrice.

So?

And she knows little and she's always with me? Her drunk persona is Patricia because Patricia is just an asshole. Patrice is the same. Oh my god, Betic would not have picked that. It's so funny.

Like James and I had, we'd had a really big fight one day and I was completely in the wrong.

Once come out of my rage blackout.

He'd fallen asleep on the couch and I walked past him and I looked at him and I was like, I really should have gone from a hugging and apologize. And Patrice was like, we've taken this so far. We need to get all the way. Just come to us.

He will come to us.

Actually, Patrice was a real bitch when you got engaged, wasn't she?

Buttrece was she on out of my town.

She was like, you want to marry me?

That story like, I was a bit.

I don't want people to think I'm horrible, but Trees is horrible, Patrece is horrible. It's not me.

I love for Teres. I love that she's just you know, she sits there, just kind of in and out.

Okay. So our housemate at the time was like, she's she was working at Vogue and she was like, oh, we've got an industry event and because it was around I think Sydney wasn't allowed to come to US borders. Yeah. She was like, because of the recent border closure, there are a lot of empty seats, so it's not really because I was like, oh, well, who would be there, and she was like, no, no, no, it's not like that. It's you know, kind of more of a you know, in the office.

Kind of corporate property, corporati that's the word, yeah, corporate in.

The office thing, and so you wouldn't really know anyone, but we need to feel seats, and I, oh, you were a seat filler in Vibes. I was like, okay. She was like could you because wow.

So you were already shitty.

I was like, look, it's Vogue.

So I was like, hey, there's worse places to be, right absolutely, especially after you used to chop up your Vogue magazines exactly right.

I am not coming to the just coming out at the center, the center, yeah, the center center of all my So naturally I was like, okay, well I must get hair and makeup done then, of.

Course, and my friend had contacted me, and it would all make sense now because I said to James, if you ever posted me, to make sure I get my nails done.

So someone organized for the nails to be done.

And make sure there's content. So everything makes sense now, right, So my friend contacted me and she was like, yeah, I need to get them done early though, so we'd have to do it early. And then it just happened to work out with my hair and makeup and everything for this What a coincident. And then James was like, oh, told me that his friend, who he's best friend, who I hadn't met, was in town, was meant to be in town for us to all go to the NGV. And then he was like, oh, so Lee's not he

Oh no, And only because.

I was getting my makeup done, and I didn't want to wear a mask.

And you had the event, yep, yep.

Had the event. I was like, I need to look at Maculum.

Going to this folk this fa that doesn't exist.

So so he was like, noahll I paid for the tickets and I was like, oh, go on, James, how much were they? Like forty bucks for the I'll pay you for them.

My makeup so much more express or.

Yes, so shitty.

I didn't want to be there only for that reason.

So I was like what my mask out?

Had I my contour? Yeah?

Everything?

Yeah, I know, baby, and my nose contourur Like no, you.

Know, I mean does he not understand? Can you not propose in some other way?

Yeah? But we met at the n GV. So that's where the poor guy wanted to propose.

Oh my god, I am an asked you are and aren't you pre.

That day?

Yeah?

Not me, it was so I was like stumping around and and then he's like, we'll get a glass water. You can just lust water and just take constant zips so you don't have to have that. So we get the water and then we go to the exhibition and they're like no water and here and I.

Was like, oh my god, so mad.

And then we're you know, walking through the exhibition. I'm holding the mask and you know, security is and I'm just like, oh, like.

Pressure now, I just don't want to make my make up. For God's sakes, I don't have COVID right now.

See you're being really pleasant, really pleasant.

It was. Yeah, So we like zipped through it because I was like, I don't care about that.

I just want you to be happy and oh happy. I just don't want to be here. Please just go, please, I just want to go.

I'll be happy as soon as we leave.

And he's like, fuck, this is really not going how it would go.

And everything was on a time schedule. Yeah, of course, right, so he's trying to store me it and I was just like not having a bar.

Oh my god, he's strolling you because the atrographer.

Was setting up. So Eugene, who we work with, was setting up.

Poor huge probably getting texts like hurry on literally.

Right, and I in my mind Patrice was like, push this so far today? Why has he not told us to fuck off?

Why have we not divorced before?

We should putting up with you? Because usually he would be like you know what.

Oh, because he was like, we need to smooth this so far.

Yeah, yeah, we couldn't yell at me before her. Why is he taking all this? I don't know. But then we get to the end of the exhibition so far and he was like, why don't we just walk back through?

And I was like, no, right there, why would we Why.

Would we walk back through?

Are you trying to kill me?

If I not been clear enough?

Jane's think it's better. So we exit the exhibition. We're back into the main sort of.

The water wall fountain get near there, right and James was like, oh, look there's Eugene and I love Eugene.

But I was like, I just want.

To get go away. Can we talk outside? Can you come with us?

Walk and talk walking talk talk walking?

So I was like I don't know, and he was like, oh, you know, just working for MGV and it's a Sunday but not a bad gig. And I was like, no, that's great, Like yeah, pretty much. And then James like I might take a picture of us, and I was like, I was like, James is here to work, not take photos of me today.

That's not I think I work And was.

Like good no, don't mind.

And James like, why don't you stand over there the spot we met? Oh my, And I was like.

It's so cute and you were being so.

James overheadlining.

Because and I was like, we're not doing a photo there.

I feel good today. I want to continue feeling good and that's not going to make me.

I know my lighting, I know my angles.

I'm like no. And he was like, but you want a photo, right, And I was like outside, that's.

Right front front line, yeah, yep, yep, the overthing.

The overthing, yeah, whatever that's called.

So he didn't bloody get to do it on the spot where you met, because you are a bitch. You ruined everything. That's one of my favorite stories.

Ever thing, and you know, obviously presented it really nice. It was really nice.

Yeah.

And they were all facts. I just left them out.

Yes, So he did it outside so while you were getting a photo, it's even better. Stop. Oh this is oh there's more yep. I remember now.

So James is this thing where I'm like freaking out and he'll be like you will hold my arms and he'll be like, I love you just you.

Know, yep, yep. You are not the center of everything.

Yeah, newsflash, and I'm like what yep. So he's doing that and he's like, if I love you, and I was like, I know, but you jeans are right. I'm trying to like smile and not let it on the way like having a fight, having a fight, but you know, I'm being a nightmare, and like I just didn't want to get into it all. Like I was like, we can talk about this later. Eu. Jeane's right there and he's like if I love you, and I was like, I know, and I love you and I love you not right now.

And he was trying to start the speech this poor man. I'm surprised he went through with it, Babe, I'm surprised. And all your friends were waiting at the rest of yes.

So he's just pulled out the ring and I've gone.

I'm a seaword.

Oh you ve a sem Patricia was a savarm And he was like, yeah, is that a years? Oh my god, that was your side. You are all time, what a legend. And I was like of course.

And then I was like I couldn't even cry because I was just like.

I've been so mean.

Also, I just couldn't even register, like it's.

The best story. Expecting it it's the best story.

I knew it would sort of come, but I just didn't think then, oh my god, it's my story. And then I cried like twenty minutes later when everything like the Penny Drop was like, oh.

My gosh and so beautiful.

It was you know what it was?

It was us? Yeah, like at least it was us. At least it was accurate us. And for trees, you know, you're a beautiful thropple. Congratulations to the Oh my god, that's one of my favorite stories.

Ever. If that's not relatable, I don't know what I should have been the starter.

Apparently I was talking to.

Some people and they were like, the worse the proposal, the better the marriage. And this is coming from women who have been married like fifteen twenty years.

I'm like, good, wicked, We're gone all the way, all the way, all the way, gal amazing. Very last question for you, what is your favorite quote? Oh? Oh, I know it's hard. So many saved in my I know it's a hard one. I always like struggle with this one, so I ask everyone else so I don't have to get anouncer because it's easier this too. Shell pass that's a good one.

That's what immediately came to my mind. But it always does. And now every time something bad is happening, I'm like this too, shell Pass. You say it always it always does. Yeah, it's always going to figure itself out somehow. So just calm your ship, yeah, and just deal with it. Good ones at the end of the world. So the end of the world's going to pass.

Everyone needs just that little audio byte on repeat, just Effie like, no, it's gonna just get you ship together.

Shell Pass mind you you know what immediately came to my head. I don't know why, but ben Cousin's tattoo.

Yeah, is that the stomach on? Oh yeah, something like kind of profounding, not profound.

And then my brain was like, nah, that one.

Your favorite code is ben Cousins.

Again.

If that's not.

Relatable, I don't know what I know what is?

My love?

Thank you so much for joining. This was absolutely wonderful. You're one of my favorite people in the business and so grateful to have had you on.

Thank you for having.

Me my gosh, I learned so much I didn't know about e Fie in this chat. I hope you guys enjoyed as much as I did. I adore how she holds her own in some of the most trailblazing outfits on huge national stages, but can be open and vulnerable about many challenges internally to get there. She's one of my very favorite people in the industry, and I'm so glad we had her here today. Don't know why it