Chrissy Hobbs // From warzones to women's superannuation... the inimitable CEO of Verve Super

And even while we're at Union twenty, like, we're just trying to keep these options open for ourselves, aren't we. Because you're kind of aware that you have no idea.

will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneurshos wapped the suits and heels to Cope, matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. CZA is a series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Hello, lovely yighborhood.

in superannuation. Is not directly invested in fossil fuels or other harmful industries, which is already a cool enough story of an industry disruptor. But to hear that she came up with the idea in a shipping container in Baghdad, Iraq during her work with the United Nations World Food Program, where she eventually became head of operations. I mean, tell me more, all right, what an amazing story. And that's just ten percent or maybe even less, of the amazing

story that she has to tell. So I will do just that.

life you have today. And I think if people meet you now, it's very easy to assume, you know, you know what you're doing, you're incredibly successful, you kind of can you know, hold your own in a boardroom and negotiate big deals, and it's I think easy to forget that there were a lot of times I'm sure of self doubt or loss of direction or totally different careers in your case, which is my favorite kind of story.

So can we go back to the beginning and trace through all the chapters of Chrissy, like right back to maybe even before school, Like what were you like, what were your first dreams and hopes and what did you think you'd be.

practicing for my school cross country and things. So I think I sort of like, I don't know, I guess I must have always had an ambition to at least be someone was going to be making speeches. I love that, Yeah, But I don't think I thought much about work. You know, I grew up in Canberra, and I was a very like outdoorsy camping kind of hiking you know, just living or you know, in the outdoors sort of kid, which

was really my priority a lot of sport. But I guess, like, you know, if I think back, my sort of like weird career journeys did start quite young. I was, you know, an eleven year old doing a paper on which you know, looking back, was sort of slight child labor type.

to do kids' birthday parties. So I sort of had always these like really random jobs that you know, just kind of kept progressing. I ended up during UNI being at Parliament House and I was working as a gym trainer there for some of the politicians. Like so I sort of very like eclectic kind of early career. And I guess I really, you know, just loved all those sort of random experiences that I had.

those things are the reasons why you like them. But it's it's so cool because there are so few people who go at five, I want to be a doctor, and then they become a doctor and now it's sort of like you've founded your own superannuation fund, but like super wasn't even on your mind, and that that whole finance world was just not even playing a part back then. And I think that's so cool to remind people.

get your job after university? And I think she was like, you need to study like accounting, like I don't remember, which is like so weird because like, you know, me and my one of my best friends now I met in this accounting degree and we just laugh like we're just like what the hell were we doing studying accounting? Like this is so weird. But I ended up doing this, like you know, one accounting unit and it was quite

in my first year of UNI. And then that was just quite interesting because I think the science side was very like it was very theoretical. It was very like not applied in it was like big picture thinking kind of a study, whereas like the accounting and going into economics and finance and was very much you know, it's extremely practical and applied in a way. What I was studying it was like these numbers on this balanchine and this is how you do this, and this is how

you do this. And I really loved that kind of having both elements of that and A and ul studyings have had a great opportunity to just do a two degrees in four years. So for me, I really quickly decided like I wanted to do the two degrees. And I think probably what appealed to me was is that I could really quickly see how that applied to work. And I think for me, like I'm a much more practical person and more of a theoretical person, so I

think I found that quite exciting. And then in my second year of Union actually got a fantastic job as a bookkeeper, so you know, my friends were still slaving it out of it, like the fish and chip shop where I had been working, and I remember going into this interview as as a bookkeeper, and you know, I've been like prapping with my mom and I was going to ask them for like I think I was like twenty dollars an hour and role played that and they

were like to pay expectation of being like twenty dollars an hour and they were like, oh, we were going to pay you forty. So like that also was quite inspiring at the time because like, you know, getting paid like forty dollars an hour, like even now that so I was quite good. But this was like, you know, twenty years ago at UNI, like I was like, my life is made. And then I was like I love this accounting business. That sort of inspired me to, Yeah, I guess do those duel degrees.

mind later and like swop to something completely different. So I think that's also something that I try and like hammer home a lot in these interviews is to, you know, talk to people who have done lots of different things and that don't necessarily they're not necessarily different things in the same industry either. They're just like you do one thing and then later you realize it's time to do

something else. And I think that's something I definitely want to focus on a lot with you, is like knowing when the time is to change or and then coping with the novelty and lack of comfort and familiarity. But before we get there, I mean, it's funny that we both kind of started in very corporate context. How did you end up at Deloit? And I mean most of my friends who went into management consulting still can't explain to me what that is. So how did you end

up there? And what was that as like a platform for your career?

the idea of management consulting. And I think probably looking back, you know, I'm a complete ADHD person, and so I imagine what probably inspired me. It was this idea of just like you know, working across different clients and doing like really varied work. So you know, really, if I think about Deloit, it was like I just remember at the time, like I was like, okay, I didn't get that one, and who else is still open? And I just remember that they just happened to be open and you know,

were closing soon. And I think it's like a really it's quite interesting because for me, you know, I think it also just speaks to like, you know, privilege and the kind of universities you go to. Like I was really lucky to even find out about that career path and to actually find out about it before you know, there was still some companies that had applications open, Whereas I remember when I started, and you know, some of my colleagues I was starting with that had gone to

like Sydney UNI. You know, they had all actually been in feeder programs from the university where they'd been like already working doing internships in management consulting firms. They'd found out about it so in their first or second year of school and like had like tailored their whole careers towards that. And you know, it just sort of like really highlighted to me this kind of I didn't you know, Camera is not a business community place. It's a public

service town. Even the concept of like business or what that means and what those job opportunities are, like, it's we don't have that in our culture. And you know, I think that just really highlighted that divide. And obviously if you're, you know, someone startying in a rural area of you're from an even more disadvantage family. It really just highlighted to me that you know, even just to know what those jobs are and to be preparing for them is such an advantage in itself. So yeah, that's

how I found about DELAY. You know, I applied for the job. We did sort of all those interview rounds, and you know, by that point, you think you're very very special for getting that job because you've gone through like six interview rounds, and you think, because you're so special for that job, like that must just also be like a very special job if they're going to make it that hard to get in as well. So they did well with that psychology, I must say.

tell me how you explain it? So I can explain it to other people, Like you go into companies across all different industries and you spend x amount of time there making spreadsheets and doing models of financial thing Like you know, I couldn't even explain it to you, But every consultant that hasn't stayed in consulting has done something so cool because the skills that you learn of analysis of just everything in the world. I don't know, I just feel like it's this amazing. It is a really

special job. You get taught to think in this crazy way.

and you're like really consciously aware of that. So it's sort of like, you know, I remember sitting in these clients being like, I have no idea what I'm talking about or what these people are talking about, but I'm really consciously aware that they're paying this much money for me, and so already from day one, you're like know, faking

it essentially. And I think it's also those skills that then go on to help people later because like, you know, then when you're applying for some big job that you're not sure if you're qualified for, you're like, well, you know, I've kind of been doing work for the last five years, i haven't really been qualified for and convincing people, so you know, like I think it kind of builds that

skill set as well. And I think, you know, definitely to be a successful consultant in the early days, you need to just be able to convince people that you're bringing a lot of value even when you may not be bringing that much value to the table to being a management consultant.

technology focused product. And this was back in the day where technology was called it and so anyway, and I was like in the project, I was it was a first meeting or se commedty with the clients, and it was like meeting and the partner a couple of people sitting around the room, and they kept talking about ICT, which like obviously today everyone knows information communication technology, which is just like what you call it. But I think

that concept was just coming through at that time. I remember when I it was like IC two ict IC and then I was like, you know what, Christiana, there is no such thing as a stupid question, and you just need to talking about And I remember being like, thank you, you know, this is all making sense, but

because someone just explained to me what ICT means. And I remember the director what sort of spunniest chair around and pointed to his door where it was like he was like director information communication Technology and was like information communication technology, and I was like, and the partner sort of like looked to me and his like like the color all drained out of his face, and I was like, I guess there might be suchleep.

productive way rather an unproductive way. And I'd love to tie that into sort of how you from management consulting then made a big jump, but not kind of a jump that you know a lot of people would make, like into a different bank or into something that's very

business startup focused. You kind of went to the United Nations in disaster zones and conflict hotspots in the world, and like a massive, massive jump from any any kind of career, but particularly from outside of the UN, from outside of diplomacy or or war zones or you know.

I think this is another reason why I'm so excited about this interview, because if I hadn't gone into business, the way I would have hoped to use my law degree was with the UN and we went to visit the war tribunals in Arusha for a wander, and like that area of I don't love conflict, but I love the idea of kind of applying the skills that you learn in a conflict zone. And so to talk to you is just so unbelievably exciting for me. So how did you make such a gigantic jump and what brought

it about for you? And then of course going into a totally different industry, how did you deal with that lack of familiarity.

It still does it. I'm not sure what it's called today, but it was essentially at the time, it was called Youth Ambassadors for Development, and I'd heard about it for a long time and it was essentially placing people that had, you know, some form of work experience into not for profits for a year sort of on a volunteer salary funded by the Australian government, and so I'd kind of heard about this and was always a bit excited about the concept, but you know, it was always in the

back of my head. And then you know, probably I'm sure you have a really similar experience of when you decided to leave law. But I was living in Bondi and Sydney at the time, and I just had this one day where it was like thirty degree beautiful sunny day and I was in my like suit waiting for the bus and it was like crammed on the bus

on one day road. Everyone's sweating on you standing out, you can't get a seat, and then you sort of pile off the bus like little lemmings onto the train, and then got off the train at Martin Place and sort of piled out again and walked down, you know, with another like one hundred co working office people to like our building, and you know, squashed into an elevator and went up the elevator and you know, got out into the open plan room and there's two hundred of

my colleagues and their suits sitting at their computers and I just almost his punnic attack of like, oh my god, is this like my life, Like I just cannot do this any longer, Like I'm sorry, this is so not me. And I think I'd really enjoyed like the first couple of years of you know, buying my first suit and buying my first hair straightener and like you know, buying a pair of heels and kind of doing the power woman thing. And I'd enjoyed that sort of like you know,

Friday evening drinks. And but I think at some point that novelty had worn off, and I was just like, oh, it's just not really me, Like I'm just this isn't really who I am. And you know, just making money for big companies isn't really like motivating me. And so I started having a look at you know, just daydreaming.

Really I was daydreaming about intrepid holidays in Vietnam, and then I was daydreaming about looking up this youth ambassador program and looking at placements, and you know, I just saw this placement one day that literally sounded like me. It was like looking for like economists in a market analyst position living in Katman doing Nepal, and I'd actually

just been on a holiday to Captvin doing Nepal. And I have no recollection of this, but the friend that I with swears that we were sitting down one day and a un car went past and I said to him when I'm going to come back and work for the un I have no memory of it, but it was like six months later and there was this un job like in Nepal that seemed really aligned to my

skill set, so I just applied for it. And actually the biggest part of this decision ended up being that I'd also been nominated for the Young business Woman of the Year award at Deloitte, and of course me at this point thinking that like Deloit was like one of the pinnacle sort of this was in the entire world, and that, you know, me being a Young Businesswman of

the Year was like extremely important. I just around the same time that I had to accept this application, found out that I was going to be the winner of that for Australia, but they obviously weren't going to award it to me if I was about to leave. I remember this was like the biggest stressfulest thing, which now in your retrospect, I'm like what it was, but at the time it felt like I was giving up so much and so but yeah, I made the decision basically

to go, and I did look back sometimes. I don't look back today, like there was you know, certain periods where I was like, oh my god, I gave up that great opportunity, but no, like now in your prospector, I was like, you know, like I wouldn't even think that, but yeah, and so off I went. It was supposed

to be a year long program. A year sounded like a really long time to me at that time, but of course I settled into this crazy life in Katmandu, which was like walking to work with like elephants walking down the street. And you know, it was I was supposed to be this market analyst reviewing at the time, it was the high food price crisis, so working with the World Bank looking at the impact of food prices

on small farmers. And it was sort of my second week there where I was in a meeting and you know, they were discussing like somebody has to go and fly in a helicopter and do monitoring of these remote mountainous sites, and like nobody wanted to know, like and a Parlis all like had their heads down, like trying to hide behind these colleagues, like you know, my kind of western colleagues that had already been to these areas were like, you know, I'm not interested, Like you know, there's no

running water, you have to sleep in people's houses. And I was like pick me. And so you know, I don't have been in the job for a few weeks when like I was being like flown by helicopter and it was like with a local newparlot colleague, and it was like basically the job was like you need to trek for the next like three weeks from village to village, monitor that like our food acisms has got there, and then we're gonna give you some coordinates where Helle's coture

they're gonna pick you up from at the end. And I was just like people paying like twenty thousand dollars to this kind of trekking adventure and.

was sort of how that started. And you know, I spent about three years in Nepal and it just was a really random career where I started it at this time where the whole humanitarian environment was going through a drastic shift, which was shifting away from giving people things like giving people food or giving people shelter in a disaster, or giving people water to just trying to where markets are functioning, give people cash and letting them sort it out,

which just seems so obvious today, but it was this huge shift that was going on. And the agency I was working for called the World Food Program. It's the largest humanitarian agency in the world, but it was probably at that time about ninety percent men. So the entire workforce and the people that made up senior leadership, they

were logisticitions largely. So it was people that had come out of the army that were really good at like in a natural disaster there's like a broken bridge, like getting a bridge up so they can get a truck across it. All people that had come out of sort of conflict negotiation where if you're in like a conflict and there's five or six different factions, you have to deal with negotiating with those factions to get food through.

And so it was this extremely like masculine, male dominant logistics focused organization now being told that they need to bring everything into some form of finance you know, how do you get cash to people? How can you use like mobile technology, like how can you use thumb print technology, iris scanning, like how do you get money into people's hands? And so like, no one had any idea about money.

And at some point they were like, oh, Christina, like you get economics, like you get like you set up these like first systel. So I was like, not quite my skill set, but okay. And so I was at the real forefront of developing some of these first kind of programs in the world. And then that sort of just sucked me into this, like you know, suddenly kind of the economics work and all that kind of went to the side. I sort of got really sucked into

working in humanitarian emergencies, delivering cash transfers. So I went from Nepal, then I went to Rome for a while, where I was working where our headquarters were, but being sent out to different disasters. So I worked sort of in Somalia and North Kenya during the famine, and you know, worked on a few different projects, and then eventually got

sent to Turkey to work on the Seria response. So I spent the last sort of six years across Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon in Syria, in Iraq working on like you know what was the largest custure answer programs ever. So we were distributing to millions of people cash, which you know doesn't necessarily sound that complicated, but when you think about the reality on the ground of you know, many of these people never used bank accounts before. People fulle in conflict,

don't have their ID papers. There's anti terrorism legislation designed by the US that if you even get one dollar in the hand of somebody who's a terrorist that you know, you can actually go to jail for that as a person if you're working for the UN. So there's like incredibly big challenges to try to resolve in really practical ways. Sort of became the focus of what I was working on.

environment is. I think when you think about hamanitarian work, you just think about awesome humans helping other humans when shit really is going down, But you stop thinking about it as a normal workplace, which also has like gender inequalities and power and balances and all that kind of thing.

So the fact that you became a really senior operator, like heading up a department in a total totally different market, in a totally different sort of set of circumstances than you'd ever dealt with back here, how did the self doubt play out over there? Like when you're getting becoming more and more senior and in this context of like chaos, and you know, the fear that most of us have at work is like fear about failure or fear about looking silly, you're also facing like actual fear about like

being shelled. And how was that environment?

in the UN. It's a criminal level of responsibility. They have to commit a crime essentially, So things like chronic sexual harasses, chronic kind of bullying, workplace bullying, like these not really fiable offenses in the UN. And then on top of that, it's a really interesting culture because there's no sort of country cultural norm Like if you're working in Europe or you're working in Australia, you've got you know, really strong cultures around like what those workplaces should be like.

But when you're operating like in a conflict zone, it's like, what is the culture of that place? It's not the culture of the country, it's not the culture of you know, one of the you know, a European country. It's and so I think it's sort of this these factors and then just really extreme power imbalances. So one of the problems with the UN was that they'd initially had these really strong employment contracts, which means that people that are

permanent employees you cannot get rid of them. So as an employment workforce, the way they sort of worked around this is to them put everyone else on consulting contractor contracts, which just makes these really big power imbalances between people in leadership and everyone else in the workforce. And so I think that all these factors combine, you get these like things that happen in the workplace would just never

ever happened in Australia. That just shocked me. So for instance, like I had every single country director, maybe bar one who I worked for, like had tried to sleep as an employee really overt way. It's like I had, you know, this is like the most senior represent in the unit in the country, like you know, smssing, like come over

to my house. So I'm like not even this, like are you crazy, because you know, and this is bizarre, Like I had to manage these kind of like harassments and things that in Australia, Like you know, I remember working at Deloit, like the officers were all glass for the reason that you know, they didn't want any impropriety. They were so concerned about these issues that you weren't even you know, you had to be in glass meeting rooms.

You couldn't even be in private meeting rooms. And so that was like you know, I think constantly throughout like my seven eight years at Deloit, it was you know, being the woman in that in that situation that so many of us have been in where you're like trying not to hurt people's egos, trying to like keep them

out of your whole to your hotel room. Like you know, I had situations where like five male colleagues were like trying to get my hotel room card from the front desk, like because they were all doing trying to get into a room, and like you know, the room calling me, and then the personal reception feeling bullied, and I'm like, you know, like it's just just really really extreme things

happening all the time in the workplace environment. And then I think if you add on that the pressure of over time, people that become really good at emergency work kind of get stuck into emergency work, and so start working for people who have spent the last seven years in conflict zones. Their families obviously aren't there, they're in locations nearby, so they're completely becoming separated from their friends, their families, and the mental health effects on that, and

then what that leads to in the workplace. So just also levels of bullying, like yelling, Like I started a job one day, remember my really senior boss who was also the head of the country at that time, picking up a phone, ripping out the worlds, throwing at someone and hitting the wall on my first day, like and you just like, this isn't okay, Like everyone calm down.

So I think, like, yeah, the operating environment was really different, and I think the reason I thrived was, you know, it was hard, but I think also I was I was really young and female for my role, really working in the Middle East, and I think it actually ended up working in my favor. So I was just really

able to negotiate well, work with governments well. And I think in part it was because people just weren't used to handling a young a young woman, and you would think potentially that could work against you, but I think it was very disarming people and you know, sort of being out of those like ego wars that sometimes go on, I felt I'd actually just get a lot done. So I think it did work in my favor in the end.

But it was definitely just this wild context and you know also what that you know, and I lived in Iraq on the end I was living on a military base with about two thousand men and there was three or four with Oh my god, it was just like luckily a bunch of them were they're fig and peacekeepers who were just like amazing, but just like a really, you know, a really different culture to what you would be living in Australia in terms of a workplace, and you know all the boys that go along with of

living with people and working with them and like being in confined spaces with them at all times, and then just the bizarreness of you know, the way that your life looks like at that point is you work twenty

days on and then you have seven days off. And so my life at that point looked on half Austrian and so my life at that point looked like twenty days on a military base, basically living in a bunker, working in a bunker, bad Dad, and then traveling in what's called a hippo which is like a bomb proof vehicle to a airport, and then flying to Switzerland and meeting my Austrian cousin and going skiing for seven days and then coming back and it like I think, you know,

I loved that about the career at the beginning, like I was like, this is like amazing, and then I think by the time I was like getting ready to leave, I was like, oh, this is just fucked up, Like this is just like bad. Like I was like, you know, my cousin's finishing her ski trip and going back to her job. Actually she was a management consultants as well, you know, in Vienna, And I was like, oh, that

sounds quite nice, you know yeah. And I think just all that stuff at some point, like you can either mentally deal with it or you can just never quite reconcile these things. And I think I was always in the place of like this is like a fun experience or a different experience. But you know, Roo was calling me as hom I think.

chapter just for a whole separate episode. I'll have to call you back one day because this stuff suspends me so much. But the idea that like one of the things I've found with friends who have been with the UN or have been in the military and then like come back, like get to the point in their life where it's costing them too much and they want some

normality and they come home. But the pace of life that your body has become used to, in the level of adrenaline, it's almost like you get addicted to that conflict zone and you get addicted to that minute to minute thinking, and then it's really dull when you come back to safety and it's hard to sort of Readjust did you a kind of reach a point where you

just knew that you were done with that chapter? Did you face that fork in the road again of like what am I leaving behind to come back just to just Australia kind of after like literally saving lives and then yeah, that pace of chaos that you got used to, you know, you came back to something that's superannuation is kind of a very stable It's not like, I mean, it's not stable, but it's a very stable topic in general, you know, it doesn't involve a lot of global conflict

or bombs or living in bunkers. Like what was the adjustment?

And I was becoming really passionate about climate change and climate actually, I guess having worked in a lot of natural disasters, and so I made the decision. I had money saved, I was like, I'll come back to Australia for a year. I just wanted to volunteer in meaningful climate work, which was this just amazing opportunity. So it was like I came back and I just found like really small enjuries that I thought we were doing really impactful

work and volunteered for them. That was a great thing for a year, and I think in my head I'd said I was gonna do this for a year. I'll do this and then I'll stay. But towards the end of that period, I couldn't quite reconcile my new life. I was, yeah, I was struggling with pace. I was struggling with with what felt meaningful. I felt really detached still from my friends and family, like mentally detached a

bit from life in Australia. And so I did that work and that was bizarrely what got me into superannuation because I was working for a non profit Cord three fifty dot org, and they were doing it's bizarre to think about the six years ago, but they were trying to campaign to get people to leave banks and put pressure on their banks and super funds that were investing

in fossil fuels. And the biggest thing they had was that in Australia, two Prenuation controls half the ASX or, it owns almost half the Australian Stock Exchange, so that is like the biggest pool of capital in Australia. And at that time there was no superhannuation fund that wasn't

investing in fossil fuels at all, none, not one. We were doing this really successful campaigning on the banking side, like getting people to go into the banks and telling staff we're gonna, you know, cutting up their credit cards and something, we're leaving you and we're going to Bendigo,

bang Call, We're going to whoever. But there was we couldn't do that on the superside because there was no one and so bizally, what got me into Super was that I met a couple of guys that were starting the first fossil fuel free super fun called Future Super, and so I ended up kind of working with them to help them get that off the ground. Just sort of threw like, Okay, well this seems impactful now on this kind of year off what was bizarrely how I got into Super in the first place and being on

their board. But yeah, I guess back to your question was that once that was set up, I still had this like what am I doing? Like I'm just working back in an office. And at the same time, you know, Syria was really a program that I'd tried to get

funding for I couldn't get funding for. Suddenly because all these refugees were going into Europe, the European government decided to They literally picked up a project proposal that I'd asked for fifty million dollars for a pilot two years before and said we're going to fund this with a billion dollars. So it was like, you know, my old boss was like, can you please come back? And then I'd also just to throw in another thing that probably wasn't even on my LinkedIn, but I just ran for

parliament at that point. Oh Chrissy. I'd just run for the Greens in Canberra, and the main reason I'd run that was that there was a really conservative, a liberal senator I was trying to get out who was no one of those guys that you know, brought a calling

to parliament. Anyway, at this point, I'd kind of gone through my savings, not having worked for a year, done a political campaign, done all my volunteering, helped seth with super Fund, and then I was sort of like okay, like I'm I think I hadn't settled, and I was also like, you know, this job was there, and so I went back and did and helped establish that. For

a couple of years. I knew I had to go home, Like I knew that, like every time I was coming home, I was feeling more detached and I knew that if I couldn't stay now, I just would never be able to go home. And so yeah, I did that for a bit and then I came back and it was actually when I came back that I'd been thinking about

the women Super Fun. So because I'd ended up on the bard or this other Superhnoation fund, I guess I was more becoming more passionate about like the power of you know, being out invest capital in really good interesting things apt investing, and had also another topic that wasn't really being talked about then. Had become aware of the super gap between men and women, which now is something that we talk a lot about, but at that time

it wasn't really on the radar. And so I think I'd been mulling this idea of like, well, what would like an impact focus super fun look like that was focused on women, focused around sort of financial education and coaching, focused around advocacy, and then focus on like how can

we drive impact investing around gender. And I'd been thinking about and mulling it, and I came back to Australia on a holiday and you know, I started exploring that opportunity and then I had that real slarting door moment again where you and HCR had emailed me and there was like this fantastic job in Kenya and we need you, and you know, at the same time I was doing all my medical tests to get ready to go to

that job. I was doing all the analysis and trying to see if I'd be able to get this super fund up. And it was this huge sliding door moment of do I go or do S day? And I think for me, yeah, it was this moment of a I knew that if I didn't stay now, I'd probably never come back, but b it was like I'd found something that I was like, I think I can like seek my teeth into this in Australia now, and I

think this is going to be really impactful. And so that was like ultimately it was a big step to stay, but I stayed, and yeah, that became.

Like that just gives me goosebumps. That's just what I love about these stories is that it took all of your life experience to get you to this point where it felt right and where there was the chance for a sliding doors moment. That so much so that like you know, a couple of months before you founded it, you couldn't have known that you were going to do that, And that to me is just.

if i'd actually worked up through the Superinnuation system. I think people that were in that system, so many of them had the idea, but they could also see like all the challenges and all the complexity, like way more clearly than me because they were like more embedded in the industry, whereas because I came into it sideways, Like I did have an involvement in Superinnuation obviously at that point, but I was completely unaware of how hard it was going to be, Like I just, you know, I did

not know that. And also because I guess because I've done all these other things, like I felt like, you know, I can overcome challenges. But in the end, like I think it was almost like a superpower because if I'd known how hard it was coming, I don't know if we would have done it. You know.

seven percent. Either way, Having you know, thirty to forty to nearly fifty percent less super than men in this country is like, I don't know how that statistic isn't more widely known, and I think that's even an old statistic. So and that it took till twenty eighteen really for there to be a super fun for women is just alarming.

But you've gone on to like do such important work towards leveling that playing field and also not just to close that gap, but to ethically invest in super like Again, I don't think many of us we all have super funs. I don't think many of us, like know what. We're not as sort of equipped or not that people aren't literal,

but it's just not something you think about. When you're younger, you're sort of like, oh god, I've got to have a super fun, Like they take some money every you know, you don't think about it, and then suddenly you realize your choices as a consumer are making a big impact on like half the ASX. So I'm so sorry I've run off so short of time, but very quickly tell us about the verb chapter.

trustee in place and external fund money. I had to get all these parties in place to agree to this. So there was a lot of that kind of negotiation and trust building. And then at that point I sort of decided, like I don't want to do this thing by myself, and so I found two amazing co founders. So one had been working in the industry and was just super passionate about like women and serving women. And

she's also just her personality type. You know, when she had a bit of a career breakdown, she when it became a waitress for six months because she just gets so much joy from serving people. So I was like, okay, like that co founder I need because that does not bring me joy. I want my customers to be served like absolute queens. But me doing that no wrong person.

So Alex was definitely the person for that. And then we knew that we wanted financial coaching to be be part of it, and so spent a long time trawling a lot of financial coaches at the time, and it was all very much like save money and buy shoes, and I was like, that's not my vibe. And so we had run a not for profit for a number of years and financial approach ten thousand women from across austarlier and just so I called her out of the

blue one day. I found a number on a website and I was like, hey, I'm starting this super fun and she was like I'd been thinking about starting a bank. She was like literally doing some gardening in a rose garden, and like, without even like leaving the rose garden, had like agreed to basically like drive from Wagga where she lived to Canberra to like help me start this super fun.

going is like we're really values aligned. We've got a really clear vision for what we want to achieve, and you know, it's really hard, but we get those breakthroughs. Like we've been able to invest some of our members Superrehnoation in micro finance pros in Asia in the South Pacific for instance. So we're using our Suprenoation fund to provide small loans to mostly women businesses in those areas

so they can go their businesses. And we're able to do that with like good returns to the level of risk for our members and just being innovative like that instead of just putting it in a government some form of corporate bond, like putting it into something meaningful and like it's those things that you get that energy of like okay, great, like we're doing something you know, and I think we've really been able to drive advocacy on

women's retirement outcomes and being really specific about some of the legislative changes that we need to see. So those moments can be quite few and far between in terms of just having to operate a business and grow a business, but it has really brought us a lot of momentum and allowed us to Yeah, I think I think really have the energy to keep going.

sort of conceived a few months later. It was like not particularly timed that, you know, I thought I'd be having a child at this point in my life. But you know, here we are so well.

So where can we find you? Where can we find out more?

the neighborhood as far and wide as possible. In the meantime, I hope you're having a fabulous week and are seizing your yeay