These are the yeays of our lives. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day
will bear all the facets of seizing your yea. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned entrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found Matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar.
Sez the Ya is.
A series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.
Oh christiando sup detectors.
If there are any mcgrub girls listening, they'll know.
You would use terrible subject what I said.
Welcome back to Yay's of our lives, guys, I finally have a voice back after weeks and a week because I was so anal about pre recording so many episodes so that we wouldn't have a single break during the honeymoon, and I managed to upload like to our suppose a week from Egypt, but then had to take a month off when I I know you hadn't.
You've had a spell of illness, haven't you. I feel like I'm a bad to. It's my voice that a bad run. Had a bad run.
You lose your voice because you've been we had a sleep over.
What was that car outside? It's a very loud vehicle.
Anyway, welcome back, then, welcome, No, welcome you back.
From Egypt? Have you missed us? God?
So, as you all know, we've had a little break. Thank you so much for your patience.
I just was not well.
My voice was not great and I didn't feel like I could bring the full yay for the last couple of weeks.
But we're back.
So we did have on the schedule a sort of Egypt honeymoon rap and a catch up. Lots of neighborhood watch stories have happened over the past little while.
But then I did a little.
Ask Me Anything anonymously Q and A, and that brought up some fascinating questions. Firstly, I just want to say the yighborhood is so lovely. A couple of people who have opened themselves up to anonymous questions have not had a very nice time, And I have only had the most respectful, loving kind curiosity, and I'm so so grateful for that. But they've also been really interesting questions, like I've had a lot of reflection.
Yeah, I just would like to provide some feedback. I submitted an anonymous question and I was tagged in my response. I'm pretty sure that makes it not anonymous.
I'm sorry I left the veil your identity.
You didn't answer the question.
Do you know if I had done a poll an Instagram wide pole on who that question was from, there is not even one chance that anyone wouldn't be able to get I don't even know why I used five thousand negatives just then everyone would have known it was you.
Okay, so you didn't answer the question, but I think deserves an answer doing it for the people. The question was do you do silent and deadly's or are you allowed farder?
I mean both?
You were such a silent such.
Yeah, majority, but I can also do like in DEALI No, you can't you care DELI. I can dabble, but your allowed is still smelly. Okay, well, you know I like to overachieve in all areas.
But you see that didn't start again, Gal start again. I bet you didn't see that one coming in this episode.
I mean, look, I probably could have guessed that you were going to bring it up because you were very passive aggressive.
Ever, the fact that I didn't directly answer you.
So we had seriously some of the most interesting questions. You guys know that I throth the chance to answer questions about just life, not necessarily straightforward questions either, like philosophical reflective questions. So would you rather? Is my favorite game in the entire universe, as Ange loves to join
in with, but Nick absolutely hates top fives. If I've ever sat down with you, if I've ever traveled with you on a long card drive, I've probably asked what your top favorite like fruits and vegetables are and why or modes of transformed Like I just think you learned so much about a person that you wouldn't get to do.
So having this many beautiful questions has been really nice, you know, chance to reflect for myself, and I answered as many as I could with like sa long answers because I really wanted to be thorough.
I was like, you can't resume. I was like, oh my god, actually I'm dizzy, but very helpful.
Well, I am so glad they introduced that new font, you know, the default one that now comes up on stories, because it's like narrow socus letters in. It's just like, I don't want each one to like spill over onto a new frame because there's so many. Anyway, So the ones that I did get a chance to answer, I've saved in a little highlight because they were quite detailed answers.
But then there were just so many more questions than I expected, and I thought we'd pop it in a little episode before we get to our normal days of Allies, which will now be the next episode. And if you want to skip, you know, straightforward to your question, that's totally fine. I'll listen them in order so you can kind of find I might even do a transcript so you can see the time marker of the answer. But I thought that particularly around adoption and fertility and conception,
those were the main questions I got it. Instagram really isn't deep enough to kind of get into things. So I've lifted them all and divided them all by topic. We've got adoption fertility slash conception match, a maiden career kind of questions, lifestyle questions and then some fun fast fire ones at the end. And you all know I've tried monologues before, and I kind of laugh a lot of my own jokes, so I thought getting it and on board during how our first catch up sleepover in Ages.
Yeah, it was so fun. I love it. I used to well, I self invited myself because like you never invited anywhere anymore as a joke obviously, And I said, what do you mean, how can I invite you when I'm.
Self invited to your house? You kind of just announced it to both of us. I booked you and we were your plus one and two. It was really cute.
Yeah, and it made them come to dinner with me, So I was in lonely and then I said, I'm going to also then sleep at your house.
Get the bed rend We've got a little ang doner and a pillow and it's we make a little like ang nest. Yeah, well night's coming out to dinner.
We haven't done that.
It is a love a.
Week day off. It's like the old times again.
It's like this so okay side note, I reckon at the career section, you'll be able to weigh in quite a lot on the questions about sort of being restless and having multi passionate direction, kind of being pulled in different directions. So we'll definitely get into that. But An has two adios at the moment. You work the weekend and two deals, yeah, which is so great, and she gets a little taste again of being able to just dress up in.
Carrot costumes on my days, pretty much what we did before this episode.
It's also one and we woke up like all have done his work up my name breakfast.
It's literally we've done all day.
And we're a carrot costume. Do you even carry it all about your work advice?
If I have every time I dressed up in that costume and you said that exact same.
Phrase, what else am I going to say about it?
Fifty? Wait?
So I only half mentioned it that one time. Okay, So let's kick off with adoption.
Okay.
We had a lot of questions on that, and enough questions I think that I'm actually going to get a fellow adoptee on to do a full episode because that would be really fun, and also I think I'm going to get someone on who's also had their own biological children since then, So stay tuned for a deeper chat and please think about some questions you like for that one. But for now, the questions that we were asked are as follows. We. By we, I mean me and the
big pimple on my chinen. Okay, once an episode, it's our standard for in that we have one joke that is not funny to anybody else except us, and even if we're explo okay, try and explain it.
So a few episodes back, when I had my big cold saw, we were laughing because we got it. Kat did we call it? I was talking about you know, cold saws in mind gone away, and Sarah said something about it. She's like, oh, I'm so sad theod and I lost it. I was you know, when you're in one of those states where everything's just holidous. So now that's stuck and Sarah feels like she's got a lot of pimples when she's got like, I've got a katut behove,
and so now we call pimples any kind of facial lumps. Yeah, appearances katut behood was in the neighborhood of Katut.
So it doesn't cut the same ring as yeah, because it does not rhyme with nay.
But it's so funny. Please censer pictures of your if you have anything that can be.
Then in this episodes, I have to do more Easter eggs we do okay, this week's East d egg please d m us your and also what name you name them? Like some my pimples used to be Gavin? Yeah, catu became part of the world.
Okay. Questions first theme is adoption. First question is have I met or what I consider finding my biological or your biological But.
I was like, you adopted to I didn't know what these questions have you met what you consider finding? I wrote, I had to retype them all out in order, so I don't know if I can describe them.
Probably okay.
I also disclaimer I've probably answered if you're a regular listener or have listened from the beginning, I probably answered most of these questions before, so you can skip through if you onto, or maybe my answer have changed. But I feel like if people have asked the question, they might not have been able to find the answer before. So for this first one, I have never met my birth parents, and I am.
Not necessarily deeply.
Motivated to do so. I think there's a couple of factors in that. Firstly, in Korea in the eighties when I was adopted, it was obviously a very different country. It was a lot less developed the eighties. In general, documents weren't digitized. It's very difficult, Like logistically, it is very very difficult, particularly cross culturally and cross country adoption. It's very difficult to find out that information. So firstly, there's that big hurdle. Often the birth father wasn't even
recorded at all. There's sort of societal expectations and stuff that made it difficult to even Yeah, sometimes that information was never there, even if it is, I think a lot of people are often motivated by feeling a bit of a gap in their identity. I've never felt that I've had the most beautiful upbringing. My family, my adoptive family, I don't even call them that. That feels weird because of their my family. I have never had the feeling of
missing something that often drives that search. So no is the short answer. But if it was made very easy, like if for example, you could just tick a box or they turned off my doorstep, I would not say no. I definitely be curious to see them and know what they look like. Medical history is a really big thing that we'll talk about in the context of something else. I would not not be curious. It's just that you've got to really really want it for it's taken some
people that I know thirteen fourteen years. Sometimes it opens up wormholes of things you maybe didn't need to know about, circumstances of your adoption that could be traumatic, whereas you know without knowing that it doesn't affect my life, the fact that I don't, So no, I haven't met them, and now I'm not desperate too. But I have met my foster family and that.
Was really beautiful.
So once you're adopted, your adoptive family can pay extra for you to be fostered with a family instep like, so you get a family environment instead of being just in the orphanage. And I was with a family Missus Kim.
Even though everyone in Korea is called missus Kim. There's only five surnames pretty much in Korea, Kim, Park, hollow Lee, Holloway, Davidson, and I was her first child that she fostered she's fostered, you know, tens and maybe I don't even know how many children, but I've been back to meet her and that was really beautiful because she has photos of me when I was little and remembers me as a baby, so that was really special.
On the back of that, have you ever wondered how life would have been like if you were in Korea or grew up in Korea?
Always I reflect on that all the time, and especially in the eighties. It was a much poorer country. The opportunity for women were very different and limited access to education. You know, there was sex, slavery and trafficking and all kinds of things, and you know, I mean, I haven't researched it enormously, but it could have been a very
very different life. Like Mum cries all the time thinking about that, and I think it's what makes me so keen to do so many things, is because I am, in the back of my mind so acutely aware of how lucky we are to be here. I think everyone who lives in Australia now is lucky to be here, but I have that extra layer of knowing I might not have been, so I'm even more like well, I can't waste my spot like this is such a sliding doors moment. I did nothing to deserve to get adopted.
I did nothing to deserve a better chance. And it's as I get older, especially I think, oh my gosh, you know you're not You're born into certain circumstances, but I got to have another chance, a better life, love career.
I'm sorry, I was just reflecting about my time in Korea. We love it a lot over there, such a cool place. Would you consider adopting yourself?
I've already been adopted once. I don't know if I need to.
Be touched again. So I read that without covers adopting yourself.
The person who submitted that question. Your punctuation was fine, It was totally clear what you meant. Yes, we absolutely would. I think most of you probably know by now that Nick and I both have adoption in our family. So obviously my brother and I were adopted. But Nick's mum was also adopted, and she is also has an Asian heritage.
She was born in Singapore and she was also you know, she spent a lot of her first sort of home was in an orphanage as well, but she was there until she was fifteen, I think, and so you know, it's not foreign to either of us, not that like I think, if it hasn't you don't have an example of a family who's adopted successfully, it would be a lot more intimidating or overwhelming or scary or foreign or
whatever it is. But because for us it's so normal, it's really normalized, and we really want a family, So if we weren't able to have children ourselves, it would definitely be on the cards.
Yeah, I would love to adopt. Also, I just feel like I don't know, I haven't researched it up. I feel like it's really hard. It's very difficult.
I don't know what the rules are now, but it's universally difficult, and there are really good reasons for the bureaucracy, like you know, child protection and making sure the welfare of the family, you know, what life will they go into in the family that they're being adopted into. But at the same time, I think sometimes it's so strict that what could be worse than often where they're coming from, which it's really difficult.
It's so so messy hard balance, isn't it, Because I always think about that being like it's so hard, but of course that's for the safety of the child. But then it means that maybe they lose that chance of ever being adopted because the process.
Is so hard AnyWho, and it's extremely expensive, so some people don't have the option, like they can't have their own children, but they don't necessarily have the funding to be able to do or the access like it's yeah, it's a hard area.
This is a cute one from another Korean born Australian girl. Australian born, however, I've had a white, very white upbringing. I hardly any other Asian Australian friends in school, which is naturally extended into adult life. This has sometimes left me feeling weirdly stuck in the middle. Have you ever had similar struggles with identity?
That's an amazing question, And I actually just did a wonderful podcast for the Weekend Briefing with Jamilla Rizvi, who has been a guest on CZA and is someone I admire so much. We had a fascinating conversation about justice, so highly recommend you have a listener that comes out
in a few weeks. Shorter answer is absolutely, I've had lots of identity struggles around being an Asian Australia and separate to adoption, like that already is sort of an interesting cultural heritage to come from where, and I mean you all have had that as well, Like putting the
adoption side part aside. In any teenagehood, while you're finding yourself, you kind of swing between your heritage but also the culture you live in, and like honoring and keeping some parts of your background but also embracing Australian culture, Like it's hard for anyone who's got two or three or
multiple different backgrounds. Add adoption to it, and the fact that we don't actually have parents who are preserving the Korean heritage or culture for us, but also our connection to it is kind of lost.
It's even kind of messier.
So it's definitely been something that's taken me a long time to navigate. It helps that our family have been so supportive of whichever way we happen to be swinging. Like you know, there have been years where I really wanted to explore my careanness. And when we were children, we went to han ho, which is a like a Korean playgroup where you learn Korean nursery rhymes and you get to wear your harmbuck and you can learn all
about your culture. But then if we didn't want to go, they didn't force us, and they've taken us back to Korea so that we could investigate that culture more if
we wanted to. And then there have definitely been times where I've kind of tried to suppress it because one of you know, I think that comment the person who asked to mention they in school had a lot of non Asian friends just because and I had exactly the same all the way up until mcgrob, so up until year nine, so I was very much like, let's assimilate, let's be really bogan, and let's you know, not like kind of suppress the Asian things about me, like anything
that was really stereotypically Asian. I wouldn't do, I dress in a really different way, I wouldn't listen to any k pop like, you know, all of those kinds of things. And then at mcgrob, suddenly it was so natural to have a different culture and be really proud of it. So then I was like, oh, like shit, what's been Korean? You know?
How cool is that?
It was an amazing place to find yourself and just stop having hang ups about trying to be everyone else because everyone was weird in their own way.
Yeah. So yeah, it's weird though, because as much as we're very much the same Asians being brought up in Australia, sometimes I find myself saying to you things like, oh, well, growing up Asian as if you didn't grow up Asian, because you kind of didn't Asian. Yeah, And sometimes i'd say things to Sarah. You'd ask me like, how did
you know what was dinner like growing up? And I'd say, well, we'd have one bowl of rice and it'd be food in the middle, and then you pick that middle food into the rice and that's how you had meals or whatever it is. And you didn't really grow up with that. It was very much a Western diet. Even I was lucky though I grew up with BNOI living with us. So it's hard to not maintain a lot of culture.
Yeah, which is so beautiful. I think that's so beautiful.
I just sometimes get myself. I catch myself being like, oh, I talk about growing up Asian as if I didn't grow up Asian despite being Asian, But then obviously you didn't. And so it's this like it's just strange. It sits funny.
And do you know how that manifests for me now that I did grow up Asian in that I got treated as an Asian by others, but internally in my brain, I didn't have the same cultural upbringing experience as an I would have in an Asian family. So I kind of have that experience of maybe racism or discrimination or just questions about difference without identifying with the culture that
it comes from, which is weird. And now I get a lot of sort of lovely comments about representing people of color on TV or you know, that kind of representation piece, and then I feel like an imposter in that situation. I don't feel like I can fly the flag for Asian Australians because I didn't grow up with Asian parents. So I sort of feel like, oh, that's really lovely that you think that. And I do think we should all look at the media and see ourselves.
When I was younger, I wanted to see Asian looking people, but then I also don't feel like I'm Asian enough to kind.
Of be that. But do you know what I mean? It's so I know what you mean, but I don't know you should ever feel like an imposter. I think there's different types of diversity. One is physical, how you look and how you feel. And also, I don't know, like you don't necessarily have to be the be all end of that particular culture, but it still provides a lot of great diversity, yeah, visually even on a TV screen.
But on the back of what you said before about racism, have you actually ever experienced casual racism and if so, do you have any that you know you remember quite vividly.
A lot more during primary school. I think society generally has come a long way, and I'm not saying that we don't have a lot further to go, but I think the conversation around people of color and embracing diversity and multiculturalism has come a long way from like tokenism to meaningful conversations and big changes institutionally, and that's amazing. There's so much more representation in the media, but when
I was in primary school, there wasn't. And you know, in Delly magazine and onun Home and Away and Neighbors and all those kinds of things, I wouldn't see anyone who looked like me and did have a lot of I think sometimes it was kids teasing each other and it just happened to be about my eyes being small or something, not necessarily because they understood it was a race thing. It was more like the same way we'd tease someone with ginger hair, Like it was just kids
being kids. And then sometimes it was curiosity that felt like racism, like people being like, what's that food?
Yeah, what's that?
Like I didn't have the food thing, but I did have the like, you know, like the eyes thing was such a big thing. I remember people always being like can you even see? Or like why your eyes looked like that? Or from an adoption perspective, it was like why didn't your parents look like you? You know, those kinds of questions, And it's hard to say it was racism because kids are curious about difference, But towards our older years it definitely it was more casual and probably
more subtle. But I have had more overt examples over time, and I think so one of the questions I did answer this on Instagram, so you can go and look at the highlight, But I think you have to remember, as with any kind of difference, it reflects much more about the person than it does on you, and it doesn't mean that it's okay, and it doesn't mean that they shouldn't change. But sometimes you can't also be an activist and try and change everyone for the better because
you'll have no energy left. So if you can learn how to step in and educate where you think it's going to make a difference, but also not take it as any reflection on your own value. If you can't make a difference or you can't speak up because of complicated reasons. If it's in the workplace, there are definitely official courses of action you can take, and you definitely should.
And there was a question about more casual racism, and I think there are a lot of colloquial ways that things have been become ingrained that are inherently ras that we still kind of laugh at and don't really realize they're not okay. And I think it's everyone needs to have a safe space to learn and to be pulled up on it and then change their behavior. And everyone also needs to feel comfortable to be able to pull people up and know that they're going to be able,
you know, not take it badly. I think just the more you are compassionate and patient but also use your platforms to educate in a in a way that's going to help people change is yeah, because it's again another hard one.
Yeah. The second part to that question was how do you handle it when you see it from friends? But you kind of did just answer it. I'm the worst of handling it because I wouldn't say I'm an instigator of cateugracism because I would never be. But sometimes I make jokes that I am so used to, perhaps because I sometimes say it before someone else says it, so it just like you preempt it.
So it kind of makes it fine, breaks the barrier being like diffuses it.
Yeah, like if someone asks me to do a math equation, I'll be like, just because I'm Asian or you know, just kind of like I don't know add levity. But also and then at the same time that almost eggs people to feel like they can. That's also interesting. So it's a bit tricky because I'm just alaric in general. Yeah, and it's not malicious and I don't mean any malice when I say it, but I have I think I've slowly come to realize that that actually doesn't help the situation.
So it's yeah, it's kind of tricky making those kinds of jokes.
That's a really good point because anyone who' hung out with me before will no. I do that too. Definitely do it, and I do it in a way that is kind of self defense, like you're almost pre emptying like yeah, I don't know, yeah, diffusing the situation by just saying it first. But there are some situations where you kind of need to acknowledge with levity.
I e.
When I'm getting my makeup done by a makeup artist who hasn't done Asian eyes before, I need to sort of say the approach has to be different because my eyes aren't hooded, and I don't want to make them feel like, oh stable, So I'll kind of laugh about it, like be like, oh my, but that's hard because I'm not making a racist joke, but I do need to explain there are physical differences, but I don't want to make them feel awards.
I don't want to be serious. It's really difficult. So I have learned in a way where it's I'm like, there's a difference between racism and levity and joking, and like I'm just such a jokester, and I would say that if I would said to you, oh, just because I'm Asian, as a joke, You're welcome to laugh at it because it's a joke. It's different when it comes with a different type of motive and you can feel
the malice behind its act. You said that to me, even as a joke, to me personally, i'd probably laugh because that's who I am. They know, and they do it directing it to me in that way that I would have directed it to them. It's really for me, it's okay. But sometimes when it becomes quite confronting or actually mean, that's when it's not that nice. Even you're talking about curiosity, being like what's in your food? That's the difference between saying, hey, what's that that you're eating?
And the big difference between that and saying ill, what's that? Yeah?
Or like ill that looks like pooh?
Like I've had that before when I when I was in high school, I brought pork floss and I had people being like, ill, that looks like cow poo poo, that looks like fluffy. Yeah. So I was like, oh, kind of know it was racism, but that stuff, but it can't It feels a little bit harsh than if someone to say, hey, what's that like, I've never had that before.
I think intension is very important, and there does have to be a safe space for curiosity because otherwise everyone will be too scared to say anything, which then doesn't help break down and like barriers, you know, it makes the barriers higher. So it's hard, very hard.
That cops the adoption topic. In the next topic is fertility EO, something that you and I have been speaking about a lot more over the last period.
So disclaimer here, neither of us are fertility experience, and I have like we're very very early on preliminary steps, so anything including you have been part of the triplet that is going to be the parents of this child. You know, we're like so preliminary, and there are people who have been a long way through the process who have much more to say. And so I am doing as I mentioned, I'll be doing a separate adoption episode.
I'll also do a separate fertility episode with a guest who I already have in mind, who is much further along the process, and we'll be able to shed light on the stages of IVF. And you know, I'm very very early, but there are lots of questions.
So, but also this is questions about your experience. You don't have to be an expert in.
But also I think it's important to cover like more of those early stage preparation things because you just get the biggest surprise for me, and response, like, the response to that surprise has been very like echoing this out. Oh my god, I'm saying people are echoing that surprise is that you can get to your thirties or whatever age you start thinking about it and not know anything. There are four stages two our cycle. What like that is brand new information?
Wow? Did you know that?
Of course we learn, yeah, but people who don't work in the medical arena genuinely have never heard. Like someone replied to my story being like, what do you mean we have four stages?
I'm like, see, no, it's fair. And also I know they're full stages, but I couldn't tell you anymore what any of them mean.
Okay, let's do that quickly, because I think that's important. So there are four stages, the lute phase, the killer phase for the killer.
Let me let's find it.
Four phases is population of phase? Good question TBC, Yes, ovulation lutel the actual menstruation and follicular and that is like, I don't think I'd heard the word follicular until like I did the Tour Organic podcast and talk to a specialist about my cycle, and I was like, do you understand I am learning this for the first time? Like now crazy?
And do you people forget about the understanding how estrogen and progesterone work? Yeah, Like, don't even know.
Crazy. So, menstation is when the lining of your uterus sheds. Then your first phase after that is follicular. Oh, hold on, filicid phase starts on the first day of mensuration, sorry, and ends with ovulation. So that is when the hormone, the follicle stimulating hormone, stimulates the ovary to produce around five to twenty follicles which be on the surface. Then ovulation is the phase when your mature eggs are being released.
Is the time when you are supposed to be trying to get pregnant, and you need to identify when you're ovulating in the window that you're ovulating in, which there are lots of We'll talk about this in the questions and there's a lot more articulate explanations of this, but ovulation is the phase. I used to think you could get pregnant anytime, but no, you have to be ovulating, so that's a whole thing. And then the lutel phase
is after that. And yeah, there's a lot of scientific things about the corpus lutan and all that kind of stuff. Please go and research it because it's crazy, Like there's just so much information about it. I might share the link to the Tom Organon episode because it was so fascinating. There's stages of your cycle. You have different energy, Like why do you go and schedule the most energy intensive
things at the wrong time in your cycle? Like how have we not been learning how to harness our energy the most efficiently? Anyway, So first thing you need to know is is the stages of your cycle?
All right, good wrap up.
That was the least articulate thing I've ever said, But we go and google it. It's blows your mind.
Okay, So first question, biggest question members what's the plan? And also I love that you left this comment in loving your care free lifestyle.
I think I've left that in two dalg about that we have been pretty carefree.
We got married three years ago and yeah.
Nearly three I don't believe it, and we weren't in a rush like you guys have obviously anyone who's followed for a while. Now, we're pretty busy, like we have lots of things to do, and we've got lots of business there and we've recently sold the businesses which we'll also get to so there's been a lot on. Also, my father and Lawa's been unwell, so there's been a lot of travel, a lot of uncertainty. And then COVID, like it just pretty much as soon as we got married.
It hit so when we were otherwise probably going to start immediately, but then you know, the rules about being in hospital and delivery and all those things just were so up in that we thought, we're just not in
a rush, let's survive COVID and see what happens. And then now that things have been going back to normal a little bit, it's only really been this year, and I would say the last few months that we started to think suddenly, I went into COVID as a thirty year old and I've come out like thirty three, and I'm like, oh my god, it felt like a minute, but you know, mentally I'm no older. But the body clock ticking is a reality for women. It's quite confronting
and really overwhelming. So this was the year that I thought I need to at least look at how to prepare. You could just start going for it, hammer and Tong, but we also don't have any medical information. The other two people in our relationship, we're in a quadruple. I didn't tell you you're not one of them, just saying, but I thought, you know, you could just start going at it. But because we have no medical information on my side or Nick's mom's side, there are actually things
you can do. So I went to the GP.
So sorry.
Answer to that question is the plan is We're not not trying. We are not actively. We haven't started. Someone actually asked a question the other day are you t TC?
And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? Trying to conceive? It's like a thing. Okay, surely that's not a common it's a thing. Off topic quickly, there was a quiz in the Ages. The question in the quiz in the Age the other day, a question of something was along the lines of in social media and texting, what does ti L stand for?
Oh?
No idea, no ideas? And I know what is spelt? How is pizza spelt? Sourdo? Anyway? What is t I L no idea? Today I learned, Oh my god, that is not a thing. I've never seen that. Have you seen that?
I c M I I see why? Am I like I only learned that the other day?
No, I feel like I see that a lot that I have not seen. TiO have you seen? I m a h oh in my humble.
Opa A good one? A ng L Nick started using that lie. Yeah, it's like a whole new world. Any TTC is trying to conceive we are not TTC, like I would not say that we're in that phase. So the okay, so we've got I've gone to the GP and like said, what are the things I need to do? The GP has said, which I think a lot of people will have heard, you just need to start trying. There are no things you can do like b TTC, and then if six months later nothing happens, then you
go and do all the tests. My overachieve your self was like, no, no, no, I'm not just gonna like try will and nearly for six months. I want the information. We want information gathering. So we're not TTC.
Oh my God.
Christ, you are excluded as godmother in the context of TTC. Sorry anyway, So I ended up convincing her she knows me well, she understands my brain. I ended up convincing her that we want to do some information gathering first. So first thing was come off the pill. It's been quite a few months. We are all so different in how long it takes to get a regular cycle back, but that is a very important part of preparing your body. I'm probably at the stage where I have a cycle,
which is amazing and exciting. The biggest change I think a lot of people have quite a hard time. I haven't had much trouble with the change. It did take a bit to get a cycle, but my skin has been a little bit upset by it. I don't normally get big hormonal pimples. Topbhood wouldn't have been a word last year it is now. So that was one big thing, and I think is really different for everyone, but for
me it hasn't been that hard. The first thing that she recommended that we do is an AMH blood test. Now that is just like you know, is a regular blood test, but it measures so it's called an anti malarian hormone test. As a woman, as most of you know, we run out of eggs as we get older, so the egg count goes lower and that obviously impacts your fertility. The number of those small follicles decline in number, and
as a result, the serum anti malarian hormone falls. So you're testing for the level of hormone, which will tell you how many eggs you have in your what's called ovarian reserve. That's the term used to describe the number of good quality eggs left in your ovaries. And it's important to know if you have a diminished reserve because then you will know that you have diminished fertility and
be able to kind of manage those risks. So in terms of like getting a full picture, that is a really useful place to start.
That's not very invasive and malarian not malaria. Yeah, m m U L L E R I A M.
I heard hilarian as in malaria, the disease, And imagine all these people want to get antimolarians. So the recommendation is that women under the age of thirty eight who are considering del laying pregnancy, women with the family history of a varian failure or to immune disease, chemotherapy or previous surgery are kind of the recommended people. I just thought I was getting to the stage in my almost
mid thirties that I should do it. Medicaid doesn't cover this test, so the cost I think is like about one hundred dollars. And yeah, the levels fluctuate very little during a cycle, so you can do it anytime anyway. Go and see your GP and then they can get that test organized for you. Something else other people have mentioned to me which I haven't done, is a thing called eugene testing, like the name eugene, and I think this is a genetic test that does it tests your
genes to support pregnancy, heart and cancer health. I don't know anything about this because I haven't done that one, and I don't want to say anything about it because
I'm not qualified. But yeah, that's been a very common recommendation to get your genetic background on fertility eugene e U, G E N. When you get your AMH blood test results back, you'll then go through the results and you'll either say you've got a high level or a low level or a moderate level, and then based on that you'll know if you've got good fertility, low fertility, middle
and then you can work out a plan. I had a lot of eggs, which is great, but it could also mean that you have polycystic overies, which a lot of people. We've spoken about pecos a lot. It's very underrecognized. It it results in a regular period, the regular ovulation. It can manifest very differently for a lot of people. And then you know, for some people it doesn't do it doesn't affect the fertility, or for some people it does. So I have a high level of eggs, which could
have meant policystic overies. So I went to get a pelvic ultrasound, which is a bit more invasive.
It is internal.
I had no idea what to say to the doctor while she was like playing with my junk TikTok about It was really fun. Don't have the results back yet, but that was the next thing that I've done. I haven't done anything else, so, like I said, the most preliminary. But those are a couple of starting points if you want to start researching, and if you also want to figure out start tracking your cycle so you can work
out when you're ovulating. There are some awesome apps. There are some amazing podcasts that you can listen to as well. Our good friend Laws is pretty much an expert, so you could text.
Between anything.
There are also ovulation sticks you can pee on. Yeah, but beyond that, I can't really speak much further than that. We're just very early stages.
I when you guys were in Europe, not your Egypt. I'm messaging you every second day being like, so you pregnant, So you're.
Pregnant, babies, babies make the more.
For my benefit.
It's like, we're not TC, We're not TTC.
I only did that because I knew you were doing the whole process. I would have said that and pushed that upon you if you weren't at that stage important note to make. I'm gonna beh but.
We're like, I mean, I'll document the process. I wasn't going to say anything because the pressure then as on everyone being like wh when. But then I also was like, there's no harm in like information gathering, and I think maybe everyone might be curious in doing that.
So this one is more an advice question. How to be happy for friends' pregnancy announcements when you're in the depth of infertility struggles.
That is an extremely common situation, and often people are suffering in silence because if you are on that kind of journey, you often don't want to share what's going on because it's devastating, it's vulnerable, and I can't imagine how difficult that would be because they are sort of celebrating everything that you are trying to have, and I don't think many things can make that sort of pain
go away. And it's the same as any kind of comparison. Really, it's so difficult sometimes when someone's getting something that is exactly what you're trying so hard to get. But I think my only advice is to not deprive yourself of the feelings. You're allowed to feel bad. You're allowed to feel resentful. You obviously don't have to express that to them, but you're allowed to have those feelings.
So sit in them.
That's part of the process of getting through them. And speak to your partner and speak to people who are going to understand, but do the things that allow you to then celebrate with them when you do see them, you know, maybe don't go to them first. Maybe monitor the way that you access those kind of announcements, and if you need to see a psychologist, maybe see a therapist. That might also be really helpful for you to have
an outlet. But I think allow yourself the feelings. Know that that's very normal, but also that everyone's on their own journey. And you know, if you deeply love someone, you are also going to be happy with them. But it doesn't mean you have to be happy with them without also feeling sad for yourself. You can have lots of emotions at once. It's just learning when and how to express happiness for them. Not in the right place, then that's not the day you go visit them.
You know it's good one.
I can't speak from experience yet, but that's my advice at this point.
And then how do you work on comparison? This person he's thirty three, not married or have children, so feel a bit of self.
Doubt, same thing I think, like anything, you know, I talk a lot in this EASA book about blinkers. Sometimes comparison is really triggering and you can't get through it, and you just need to put on metaphorical blinkers or physical blinkers to stop the things that are triggering you. Like racehorses have blinkers because they run their own race.
They don't they'll get so distracted if they see what everyone else is doing in the field, but they just put the blinkers on, and you know, for example, in our wedding, I could look at other weding dresses because I was just going to get lumped in a whole spiral of comparison that will then take away the joy from what I'm doing. So I think you need to be really disciplined about knowing what triggers those feelings and how to kind of push them away really quickly so
you're not indulging that self doubt. Learn to speak about it with people who will not reinforce the doubt but help you back kind of in your own lane to celebrate the things that you do have. And overall, my biggest reminder is, like no one else in your life has to deal with the consequences of your choices about how you live it. Like you're the only one that's lumped with the consequences. You have to live with your choices. I mean obviously impacts other people, but you have to
be happy with the life that you want. So making decisions just because someone else is doing them to the detriment of what's right for you, it's never.
Going to make you happy.
There's absolutely no point in comparing yourself and changing everything about your decisions to map someone else, because that's not your life. So the more you can be really in tune with and honor what makes you feel good, what makes you happy, what aligns with your values, it's just so important that really what anyone's, what anyone else is doing and thinking, is actually kind of irrelevant. Yep.
There was this really good quote and I always forget it, but I love it. It's got to do with you're never too far in front and you're never too far behind you where you need to be.
Yeah, that was our code of the gay oh this week. A couple of weeks ago, remember we were like, you can never fall behind in your own life. Oh yeah, because like you're exactly where're supposed to be.
Yeah, that's something like that, because always so true people, We always compare ourselves to where we're meant to be, because because society is that way.
Yeah, because someone else is, because.
Someone else is. But people aren't judging where you are. You just feel that pressure yourself, which is hard to obviously work through.
But and also some people might not want you or not want to get married.
When she was forty two, I still loved life like it's And.
If you if you don't want children either, I think like the worst thing that you could go and do is then have one, just because you think everyone else like that's the natural timeline. There is no natural timeline.
You can't refund them. You just gotta keep on going.
Such a weird comment, but yeah, I mean, yeah, you need to.
Yeah, I think it's.
It's so hard to make decisions that are different to other people's. But you know, we're all different. There's a reason, this is the point of this podcast, the whole idea that like one person's joy is another person's hell, and that's why the world works because we're also different.
So stick to the things that you know are joyful for you. And that was the last question of the fertility section.
If you have any further questions, and particularly further along the line with IVF and that kind of thing, we will be doing another episode on that, so please send them through.
Next topic is Matcha. So do I just brought up the microphone? Nah? Okay, first question, why did you sell match a Maiden? Great question?
So we had been seven years?
Seven years, that's.
More than double the time I was a lawyer, that is correl I was involved in it. I thought that has been established for so much longer than I started.
Nah. So basically it was you know, when we started, as you all know, it was a very happy accident. We didn't think it was going to have legs in it, let alone like full time me changing our entire career path legs. And the first couple of years was so crazy. They were just so chasing our tail, no real time to kind of re evaluate and think about it, and
just madness, but it's so exciting. Then we entered that like hard bit where you have to suddenly deal with instead of being the only matcher on the market, it was a saturated market and all these new challenges started to come in where we had to really make conscious, proactive decisions rather than reactive. That's probably the time when we realized we had to stop winging it. That was
no longer going to be enough. Very hard, huge learning curve went through the Chabini incubator at that stage totally revolutionized our business based on their expertise in mass market, but it actually showed us that where we logically would go with Matcha is not where we're best placed as individuals. And this comes back to the comparison thing, the logical assumption in businesses that bigger is better. So we were like, obviously, the more stockers we keep having, the more volume, the
higher revenue, Like, that's where we should go. But as it got bigger, we started to realize day to day it was no longer like I had become corporate again, which is what I left. And Nick is creative and he was only doing non creative logistical things, which is not a bad thing. But if the whole point was to follow what we're best at, we're really good at startup mode. We're not very good at like exponential growth phase from the five to ten year mark. That's a
whole different ballgame. So we started looking for investors because we were like, there are people who aren't good at the startup phase, but it's their jam to take businesses from five to ten and then they sell to someone who goes ten onwards. And in the hunt for an investor to partner with to we've always thought of our set is like a jigsall puzzle. You know, I was talking about yea being a jigsaw puzzle. Solways a skills base.
We realized there was a big missing piece for like the scale up piece, and looked for someone to fill it. We found these incredible investors who came on board and had everything that we didn't have, and we had everything that they wanted. And it was this beautiful partnership for about six months, and then they realized, actually, the brand is stronger than we thought it would be without you
being front facing all the time. And in the meantime, I'd freed up all this time to build CZA into a business level thing and speaking and ambassadorships and realized that brought me back closer to people interactions rather than like.
Through a product.
It was direct, direct conversations, direct impact direct, you know, like the nature of my work was with face to face with people. And they offered to buy their remaining shares and that was sort of like another big step in the staircase that I never knew was coming.
But I was like, it's time.
This beautiful thing has outgrown us. We've outgrown it. These new guardians are doing a much better job at the next phase which we just weren't interested in, and everything else. It started to also hold us, Oh my god, you're gonna loave so much it became mutually exclusive. I could no longer do both without sacrificing on one or the other. And that was where that's where the law firm departure happened, was when I couldn't do both very well and I
don't like doing things half fast. So then when the offer came up, it made sense.
I think that's a good. Other thing is that you knew it was time like. I think that's an important part of it was.
It was.
Everyone just got to watch go watch Gruel and Grace. It's a reference.
You need to include this in your references. And he's in charge of of doing the pictorial references for jokes.
Ayay, So next question is quite question. Answer. I left How much did you sell?
I left it because I didn't want anyone to think I ignored the one dollar That is too personal but also contractually private.
Exactly. Yeah, but thank you for asking. I can tell you if you signed to my DMS, i'll tell.
You it was four dollars fifty fifty from all those carrot dollars that I actually mated, plus inflation four.
Dollars at two. What are you working on now? That match and made it. WHOA what are you working on now that the match and Maiden and Match of Milk Bar ventures have wrapped up?
Yeah? Interestingly, so I answered this on Instagram in a very long essa, so you can go and look at that one, but very short answer is we didn't have the situation like a lot of people who sell their business have where they haven't got anything to jump to and they have this gaping hole in their life day
to day and it's really overwhelming. We both Nick had kept his creative agency bushy the whole time and had in the meantime started working on what most of you will have seen, this incredible botanical beauty startup called Bloom Effects, and his role there had become exponentially bigger already, so that was holding him back in that and CZA had well before become a full time gig along with sort of all my other TV and radio and all those kinds of things. So we really didn't have a jump.
We already were running different businesses that are our own. The big shift for me was going from a product to a service, and from having the buffer of a product to speak for itself to.
It being me.
So the self doubt, imposter syndrome is a much bigger thing when you're the product, but the simplicity of it has also been beautiful. So where I'm working on CZA and Spoonful, which is kind of just me, and Nick is working on Bushy Creative and bloom Effects, and.
I feel like you, guys lifting listing those both as just two entities makes it seem like you don't do very much, but sees for you entails all of your own podcast producing podcasts for other companies and brands, on top of that being Channel seven House of Wellness presenting and radio, and then obviously CZA itself on social media, and then on top of that travel. You know, you've done all some things within Trepid, so all of that false under seas not just your book and your podcast
and your flipbook. And then same with Nick. Bushy is an agency for multiple, multiple startups, and people forget that Nick is kind of the only man behind that, So you're both kind of running both of your things individually and solo, which is actually a really big job to have. You're welcome, we can emulator.
So I made zero from the sale.
And cool so segways perfectly into this tech section, which is massive.
I know, I'm like, oh my god, rode fifty five minutes. But career, we'll try and go as quick as again. Korea as in not cores in South Korea are cute. We're gonna go not quick fire. But yeah, sorry, okay, okay, I'm sure you don't have to.
There's things that you don't want to say. Answer, Sarah, you're and the queen of academics. I'm a fellow unique student wondering if you had any tips on how to do well bracket starting early, early, et CETERA.
Great question, quick recommendation. Sarah rav on Instagram and TikTok is an amazing, amazing influencer who's had a big account for a really long time. She has pivoted recently, I think into study tips and interviews a lot of people who got nine nine point nine five in their atar and for like practical hacks in terms of actual study styles. Her account the awsome go and have a look, and
there are lots of other educational tips and tricks. My biggest tip would be obviously find out the study styles that work for you. Some people cram, some people need longer to absorb information. It's all experimenting with what works best for you. Again, don't compare to what other people
are doing. We all study and learn differently. The biggest tip that really helped me two of them are one, pick subjects or make choices based on what you're really good at and enjoy, not just forcing because you think you should, because often you'll do better in the subject that you're interested in, which looks better even if it's not directly related to the career you want to go into.
People know that there are transferable skills and intelligence. They know that you're not always going to only do the subjects that like. Obviously there are preres if you do have a choice in your electives. I chose random subjects that had nothing to do with commercial law, but I had a better chance of getting into law because I did better in them because I was interested in them.
So that's one and same in uni number two studying, I think, and you probably agree with this, Bim, you do better like anything if it's not the only thing you do. So, oh my god, Bim, if you didn't say that, I was going to just add that in right,
and we are walking examples of that. We did one million extracurricular activities that took away from our study time, Like our whole time at mcgrob was sport, drama, music, everything, chrals, like debating, like everything, and that took so much time that on the face of it looks very anti academic. But the break for your brain, the diversity of activities during your week mean you're always fresh when you come back to studying. It makes you balanced, it makes you interesting.
And the times where I would pull back on those and just study study, study, I wouldn't do any better. In fact, i'd be more tired and burnt out.
I agree, and I think I tried almost to make a statement out of it in your not forcefully doing more than necessary, but I had done it in the background, being like, well, let's just do this little case study between me and one of the best mates. And we have the same similar studying studying styles, we did the same subjects. I kept all of my co curricula and more and worked and everything. She quit all of hers,
and prior to that was doing quite a lot. And then in terms of our scores it was markedly different because of and I attributed it very much to that and me not being stressed out by exams and her maybe being a bit more stressed. But also I had the best year twelve of my whole life, and I think everyone was surprised at the end of the year with what I ended up with because I just was hardly in school same, we were the same.
All of our teachers for both of us were just like what yeah, me BG news, but we enjoyed it. U twelve was one of the best years of my life as well. Like I had a great time and I studied really hard, But I also don't remember that year as being only that I have like other memories.
And practical tips. Are you a.
Big advocate for lots of practice exams? Yes, get me to heaps. I love them, heaps of practice exams. Yeah, like just to practice. Okay, firstly handwriting, Like you need to get your hand used to writing that quickly. Honestly, these days we don't handwrite at all, and like you don't want your downfall to be because your hand got a cramp. Like yeah, but also so many questions come up again in like a slightly different form, getting your brain used to the time that, like, just just do them.
There's so many of them. They're so helpful.
I did millions. Yeah, I think it was a macgrov thing though. It was almost like a battle of who could do more practice exactly fifty two methods, exams, practices, whatever, and I got a fifty row whatever. There is not that you really monitor. This is the first time I've ever seen you flexed.
You know why though?
I only did you do that? Did you do further?
No?
I did methods? Do you know? No hate to further? Mass is maths.
Mass is hard work, but like I only flex it because I failed in your eleven Can you imagine the jump in from failing to year eleven because I just like was totally non attentive.
I think you and I love to prove people from.
It. It was like the math Underdog Math and science. Like everyone at McGrath was like, you're a waste of space because you're so naughty and you're wagging and like being with Melbourne heard bois not a Gill anyway.
Balance balance, I have an aversion to being average in society. I'm wondering if this is something you battle with. This is a great one for us.
Yes, we're like speaking of flexing. Our scores were amazing and we're balanced, though, Chill no, absolutely. That is a really really difficult thing for like highly driven A type people to just coast sometimes and not need to be the best at everything. And you guys know that playta. I. Actually I have to force myself to do activities I know i'm bad at so that I don't so that I can relax and I don't try and win and make a business out of every single thing that I do.
And it's really difficult, Like your identity gets so wrapped up in trying to be the best at everything, and it's tiring and it's not joyful. You need to be
able to do some activities just for the pleasure. And you, bim have been very good at that for me because you forced me to do activities you know, because I'm below I wouldn't know it's because you force me to choose things that you know I don't like and I'm not good at, but you make me more comfortable with not being good at it and still enjoying it.
I think it's because we're so used to being high achieving. That's why we don't do it for the praise.
It's just hard when you it's an identity thing. It's like you can't do anything halfway.
It's a go get a mentality.
And if I know, if I try it once and I know, I'm like so far away from being good. I'm like, no, i't do it, but you make me still do it, like bouldering and like go exceeding and all you like boxing, But I could be good at boxing if I tried harder, but like, I will never be good at tennis. Like I have good ball eye coordination, but for some.
Reason, oh, oh my god, I feel in.
Hand eye ball. Will see you next year. On the back of that question, there's a question that says, speaking of average, what about your contract score at nick?
Oh my god, I want to divorce right now when I take back everything I said about fertility. No, so this is an ongoing joke. Law school, I got I don't know. I just had released my Internet in year twelve and then it was out and I was never putting it back in the box. I did very well academically and got all distinctions and high distinctions except for
one subject, which was my best subject. And because I overthought everything, I did too many readings and I got way too distracted, and I got like ten percent through the paper and didn't finish it, and so I got a credit. And now, guys, guys, listen. The fact that she's so sad and traumatized about a credit answers the
other question. No, but it's because there's only one, like I get so upset when I see my transfer a see literally, and now, because contracts is the main subject that you use in business every time, Nicole, go, can you just read this contract?
Oh no, don't worry about it, Nick. Every time, literally, how you go towards getting better not being average? Have Nick?
He'll literally be like, Okay, so I've got this bloom, it's really important this contract. Actually, no, it's really important, so you shouldn't read it or get someone else to read this contract like whole. No, he's amazing and I do read his contracts all the time, and I use that more than any other skill.
Best advice with someone in the early twenties, This one I put in career.
I think it was really meant more broadly. That's a really hard one. But honestly, the biggest tip is my favorite quote, or one of my favorite quotes. You don't have to see the whole staircase to take the first step. The whole of my twenties was very consumed by what's the next step. I need to have it all figured out. When I was at the law firm, everything was about the final destination. It was like partnership or the next promotion like it was very ladder climby and box tickie.
And I think if you become too fixated on not just career wise, but life wise, like who you should be at the end destination, or what you should have or what should earn or whatever question it is, or you know who your friend should be or who your partner should be, then you don't a enjoy the ride or b leave the possibility that actually your plan could be terrible and the universe could have something way better
you planned. So my advice in your twenties is like, explore all sides of yourself while you're like young and silly. Enjoy that, go and exchange, travel, try a new activity, be different, be different.
You have to be different.
It's like the freest decade of your life.
Enjoy that.
Like try new things, take risks, talk to new people always, try like to meet new people and learn from them. Everyone you meet will know something you don't and they can introduce you to a world you never knew existed. Don't be too hard on like making a lifelong decision, because there is no such thing anymore. The world moves too quickly, so actually it takes the pressure off. You don't need to make a forever decision. Ye, enjoy your twenties. It's amazing.
And it's chill because your circle might reduce in size, and that's chill and that's normal. Yeah, and we have a circle of two. The line.
Before these gays introducing this concept of linear friendship, it's like two people in a gang.
It's a collab. Guys like a vote on people say.
And we're not very big on making fun of people, but some people call it a collabor It's.
Okay, it's not okay. Delirium activate. Most of your friends seem very motivated with side hustles and big careers. Most of my friend linear friendship. Do you purposely seek out people like this in order to have like minded friends? And what do you look for in friends?
Absolutely, I definitely have made a big conscious effort, particularly in the earlier years of leaving law. Whenever you move goals or values or direction, it's a really important thing to also help shape your friendship group so that it supports where you're going rather than where you came from
or where you once were. And that doesn't mean like let go of all your friends, but it does mean it's easier to achieve something when the people around you believe you can or have done similar things, or understand where you're coming from. And I didn't necessarily have that in my legal friends, because they thought the same way that I'd been trained to. So there are shifts in your friendship every time there's a shift in your mentality.
Having said that, I.
Think it's also very important to have friends who are really different to you as well. So I love that I still have friends who are in corporate. I love that I have friends who are so the opposite of me in every way, because they keep your mind open and they teach you other things, and they every friendship I have adds something really different to my life. So you want like minded friends, but you don't want only
like minded friends, and you can also accept. And I think as you get older, I've learned that there are some friendships where you want the whole person in one person, but there are maybe parts of that friendship that compromise you a little bit or that you're not aligned on. And that doesn't mean always that you have to like you know, we always say walk away from toxic things. You don't always have to love every part of a
person to have a great friendship. You can accept the really good parts and learn to manage the other parts. So I think have a really broad range of friendships is my best advice. Definitely have friends that are you know, to like that are going to help you achieve the goal you're in right now, But but keep other friendships as well because you don't want to become too siloed.
Yeah, I think is what I mean. I feel like I slightly beg to different in your purpose seeking of like minded people because I don't feel like you do it actively on purpose. You don't go out and be like, oh,
you are an entrepreneur, therefore made to be friends. I feel like you naturally gravitate towards the people that better you, and then as a result that becomes your friendship group, rather than you're going to seek out people like minded, which is very different to just being that's true your people at that time. Yeah, and that's really naturally well, I think that's how it happens for you. Yeah, because the question is do you purposely seek out these people?
And I don't think you know, yeah, I know.
What you mean.
Don't you go out and be like, I'm going to network and find motivated people in therefore and then become friends with them or befriend them, which is very different.
I do think though that some people are sort of like, how do those friendships come into your lap? And in that case, I think, no, you actually have to go to events or like put yourself in a situation where you might encounter new friendships kind of thing. Like some people don't network much outside their friendship group, but then
don't get access to new people. And it's I did so much networking, like incidental networking of turning up at things by myself, which was kind of awkward, but then had forced me to talk to new people.
Yeah, it's fun. And on the back of that, talking about friendships, what are your chips on navigating friendships in your thirties? They say, we only have space for five close friends, including family.
Oh, so that's come from that quote. You're some of the five people you spend the most time with, which I love, and I think a big part of your thirties and probably forties and fifties, And I mean maybe at any stage in your life is that you start with like max volume, you go now quality And it does involve sometimes a real whittling down of your circle because life gets busier and the time you have allocated for friends is smaller, and your you know, ability to
be a one friend for people get smaller as well. So I think we sometimes lament the changing of and maybe dwindling of friendship groups, but I don't think it's a bad thing. I think if you have some really really yeah good people in your life, you don't need a million friends. It's great to have a million people in your life, Like I definitely have a wide circle of people I get to spend time with, which is amazing.
But your people people, you don't need to have that many of them, and you need to have enough room leftover in your emotional bank to be the person, the friend, the lover, the sister, the daughter, whatever you want to be. And sometimes that does mean like choosing kind of in a discerning way.
And what are your quick tips on navigating the friendships in your thirties.
Communication for anything including romantic relationships. I think that's my only tip. Really.
All the other tips relate to communication.
The more you get to know each other and the more you learn the ways to express enough appreciation but also to be able to pull each other up when there's like a bit of discord before it gets you know, if you can express how you feel in a safe way and they can do the same, everything else falls into place.
Not a could must be a safe way? What let it's let its marit Nate good too, I don't a safe way, it's it was really good.
And if you can pull them up on their bad jokes, like in a constructive lot of way, it's like really important. I love you, I see you, I hear you.
But no play is our communication?
Yes, very good ref episode. I don't know what the number is, but there's a episode. I think it's got play in the title, So go back and listen to that.
Okay. Next one is tips for improving confidence or self worth, and second part to that question is growing communication.
Yes, that is the hardest area. First tip is always self doubt is not ever going to go away in a good way. You don't want it to disappear. You don't want to ever not have that little like you know, not that you want to feel self doubtful. I'm probably saying this wrong, but I think if I ever didn't have a bit of self doubt, I'd worry I wasn't invested in doing a good job. It is a sign that you're doing something new and exciting and challenging. It's
a good sign, but there's a limit. And also there has to be a way for you to accept it as a sign and then not let it dictate your decision decisions or change how you feel about yourself. Practice definitely practicing better self dialogue breaking that circuit. One of the things that makes humans unique is that unlike most mammals that just think, we can think about our thoughts.
We have metacognition. That means you can think about your thoughts, so we can stop a bad thought and just change it at any time, which is why we're so special. So you can acknowledge the self doubt and then learn to just push it away if you can't do that yourself, and break the circuit yourself. At the beginning, phone a friend who's going to help you. And the more it's like a neural pathway, the more you get used to stopping that in its tracks and realizing you wouldn't have
this opportunity if you couldn't cope with it. You wouldn't be given this, You wouldn't be put in this situation if you couldn't deal with it. You were chosen for a reason. You are wildly more capable than you think you are. If you aren't right now, you can be, and you will be, And you need people around you who will help you believe that, rather than people who will detract from that.
It's my best advice.
By your stuff A hype girl, girl per person, hype animal also sorry, oh yeah, the hype dog a dog a.
God.
And within law two parts of this just about to finish up. I'll be at Monash and tips for negotiating higher duties in workplace.
Yeah okay, so within law I think it is the most versatile degree ever. You are so well equipped for anything, whether it be in corporate, whether it be in the courts, whether it be in house or you know, there's just
so many directions you can go inside the law. You don't need to go outside it to still get like a to have such a diverse range of careers, best advice is if you don't know what you want to do, and you don't, you're not going to figure that out on time, Like by the time you finish your degree, you've got to do something. The biggest thing in law is getting qualified, and you aren't. You don't graduate qualified.
So if you can find a way to get qualified and buy yourself some time to figure out what you do want to do. Sometimes people think, oh, well, you know, I know I don't want to be in law, so I'll just work at calls now, or I'll just do something else. But if you can get qualification it only takes you a year, then no matter what, you can go back to it. The time's going to pass anyway, so you might as well give yourself the best chance
of starting. I didn't think I wanted to be in law forever, but I didn't know what else I would do, so I was like, well, I might as well open more doors rather than close them. And the more work experience you have, the more exposure you have to other jobs in the gray areas that you've never heard about before. So just get your foot in the door and speak
to as many people as you can. Speak to ex lawyers, speak to current lawyers, speak to you know, get people friends and friends to introduce you to people for coffees. You need to like put some time into researching where you might want to go and who you want to become. And if you don't know that by the time you graduate, then start in the best place you can and go from there.
Advice for outside of law, This is a few questions, So how to know whether it's stay in commercial law private practice long term. This person's working as a grad at a top tier firm and very proud to say that they made it this far. Sometimes they enjoy it, sometimes they don't, and also don't like the culture which looks at how late people stay back.
Huge congratulations on making it this far. That's an amazing, amazing achievement. Again, you are in the best place possible to go anywhere in life, and if you choose to stay in that corporate context, that is still absolutely amazing. Most important thing which is maybe not what people think I would start with, you don't have to love your job all the time. Really, there's this beautiful privilege we have in this generation to have yea all the time
in our work. But you don't necessarily have to have that all the time. As long as you're finding joy somewhere in your life. So if you are really stimulated and have an amazing opportunity and stability and financial rewards, and you know it helps you build the life that you want, and you enjoy it enough, you can stay there. You everyone has bad days at their job, everyone, and that alone is not a reason to think that law
isn't suited for you. There are still things institutionally that need to change about FaceTime and long hours and you know balance, Like, definitely there's a long way to go. But that might not be a sign that you don't like law. That might just be that at the moment, working in a law firm involves that thing. So very first thing is don't throw away a really great career just because it's.
Not you're not passionate all the time.
But having said that, you won't know what else you like unless you explore so, and you're not going to find that if you just sit there in the same job wondering. So talk to people, go and have conversations, think about think you can do circonments, like put your hand up to do a seconment within your job where you could go in house at a company and see what it looks like to work in a business.
You can do a.
Startup on the side, you could volunteer at a startup on the side, you could do like you know, there's so many ways that you can expand what you are exposed to to see if you might like to do something else. But I think ours alone probably isn't. That's not law specific, and it's not a reflection on whether or not you like law. It might just be the culture where you are. You could consider a different law firm if it's really changing your lifestyle. There are lots
and lots of options. But the biggest thing I would say is I didn't leave until I had something to jump to. And the reality of life is you want to have plata and you want to have joy, but you also have to pay bills and a lot of people have dependents and responsibilities. So I think if you if you can use the time that you have there to still have a way still support yourself and look for other things, maybe don't jump and do you have something to jump to?
But depends on your financial situation. The next two questions probably could are answered in your book and or slightly answered in this podcast. Advice a something someone wanting to leave lord enter wellness space, and where do I start if you kind of.
Just touched all oh yeah, same thing, yeah, same thing, I think, explore as much as you can. It is very rare that people are able to leave their job and have enough finances and stability to leave to nothing and then build the business. I would just say for risk management and also for yourself to like, you know, cut your teeth and get used to it is. Once you have your idea, do both as long as you can.
You might as well, like you won't have a full time load of work straight away in a startup, so give yourself as much chance to do both until it becomes mutually.
Exclusive to that prozer we love.
And if you don't have your idea yet, also like it might not be the first idea that works, so you might do a few things on the side and side hustles before you have a full time business life rewards you on like your fifth sixth, twelfth, thirteenth, twelfth, eleventh backwards chance. So you you know, give quite a few things a go and see how they go, and then build up to like a full time loading and
then you can make the decision. But again, the best thing is talk to as many people who have done the same thing as you, and that helps really enlighten the pathway and get confidence because you know that other people have done it, and you know ask if you could sit down for a coffee or read people's books. Like. The more you can expose yourself to that career path, the less foreign and scary it feels. But also the more you're of juices will get flowing and you might hit that idea.
Okay, so I have a decent following, but not sure how to get invited to cool events or receive PR packages. Do you have any tips?
Oh, that's an interesting one. I think it's interesting. The way PR works is often once you get on a mailing list or on someone's radar, you stay on it and then like they will represent a lot of different clients and a lot of different events. So sometimes it's just getting to the first one and you can I don't know how it goes down when you like reach
out directly, but I mean you always could. I think the worst answer you can get is a no, And if you ask really politely in in a way that's very curious about a particular client, or you do your research like that, could you know, definitely go well, if you just do some research on the right person who runs a certain account within a pr firm. There's a lot of information on LinkedIn, and I would have done the same with the law firm if I was after
a particular person or opportunity. Also, you could try and like if a friend gets invited. The way I started to meet a lot of the prfms was going as a plus one to people two events and then but not just turning up and leaving, turning up, going to meet the person who was the representative from the PRFM, making a relationship with them, making sure to tag the business afterwards, and provide some really good value from the event so that you're you're showing why you should be
invited next time. I think it's it's definitely a matter of getting on the radar in a gentle, strategic way and an authentic like yeah, yeah, And I also just realized I forgot to answer the question. Sorry, this is going to be all out of order about negotiating different
responsibilities in a workplace. One statistic I alwayshare which fascinates me so much is that I think it was a heil At Packard study, women will apply for a promotion when they have one hundred and twenty percent of the criteria.
Men apply.
This is mass generalization, but men apply when they have sixty percent because they know that they can learn the other forty.
Totally logical.
Women will lose out every time just on timing because they apply too late. So I think we not just women, but everyone who is a bit hesitant about negotiating more pay, more responsibilities or whatever. You have to be willing to have the conversation because even our superiors are humans after all, Even if you're the most deserving, if you're not making noise or reminding them of that, how can they remember They've got enough stuff going on by themselves. Schedule meetings,
have conversations, ask the question. But the big thing to remember is when you're pitching something like that, don't pitch why you want it. You have to pitch why it's good for them. Remember your audience. And it's the same with selling things like who are you speaking? To make it an easy decision for them, show them why you meet the criteria, Not like I want this because it would help me. You want to do this because it will help you kind of thing. And it's hard, it's
so freaking uncomfortable. I am so bad at having conversations with superior about anything, which is why I just don't have superiors anymore. But learn how to book a meeting and broach the subject and push through the discomfort, because you know, if you don't ask, you don't get really.
Oscars of the career section, would you consider studying a mentoring program or platform for young women who want to start a conversation slash explore creative side hustles on top of their usual nine to five jobs. Oh my god, so many people asked about this.
It's so lovely and I get I reckon once a week, a full pitch for someone to be mentored, like who wants me to mentor them? Which is the most flattering, And I don't even know what I would say, but I would really love to do that. I just don't think that one on one mentoring. I just don't have any more time to do it one on one to the level that I would like to be able to do it. But I would love to be able to do it in a group context or some kind of
setup like that. So there's something I'm working on that's really exciting that's coming out soon, which I haven't told you about them, but I will what a flan well, which I will share soon. But I also would love to do something a little bit more structured and a little bit more yiaghborhood focused.
So I don't know how on that that out, but I will start thinking studying. I love mentoring, you know, but also knowing us.
Every time I say I'm going to work on those really exciting like, then seven months later, I still haven't done it, really sorry, guys. We still also have the Peanut for cars, the bike. We have so many things on the cards. Has just been like a really crazy year.
So we have two sections left.
Oh what I thought, we're up to fast Fire? I thought, so lifestyle or should we do this in the next episode. I was going to say, do you want to yeah, toward to the next episode, and you could expand that those questions based on whatever other questions you might get. Yeah, from now until then, Yeah, Okay, okay, guys, there's one
one hour and twenty minutes. We're going to take a break and we will release the next half with the lifestyle questions and the fast Fire questions, which I will list now so that you know not to look for them in this episode.
And we'll listen to the next week. Thank you guys for joining and listening CC. I need always a bath, okay, By
And at F