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I didn't seek it. I wasn't looking for a change. I really loved my service and I felt like I was doing good. The opportunity presented, and I think I would have regretted not trying, not taking it. And that diversity. Gosh, it was so nourishing and so enriching, and I grew massively as a human for having that experience outside of the military as well.
Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast.
Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is a platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives.
They adore, the good, bad and ugly.
The best and worst day will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned fu entrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bark.
Cca is a series of.
Conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and.
Fulfillment along the way.
Well, you might have seen that the spicy cough finally caught up with me, But thank goodness I squeezed this one in earlier so I could.
Get it to you before Easter.
Today's guest epitomizes everything that gets me excited about life and it's many twists and turns, and is even more special because she was nominated by someone in the yeghborhood. So first off, a very big thank you to the lovely Emily de Wildris for listening to the show and taking the time out of your day to submit this
beautiful story. I probably wouldn't have discovered our guest without you, So I love encouraging you all to whistle blow in the best way possible so that we can shine a light on yighborhood heroes like today's introducing Alison Gordon, who has one of the coolest collection of careers I've encountered and is a wonderful reminder of the unexpected way your dots can connect, from starting out in the army to
becoming an Antarctic and Arctic expedition leader. A surprise connection between Antarctica and maggots then led her into eco friendly and sustainable dog food. Every moment of this conversation had me absolutely captivated. Allison is humble, funny, and infinitely clever, and it was a lovely change to know very little about her before our chat and get to learn everything for the first time along with you, guys. I really hope you enjoy this one and find it as interesting.
As I did. Allison, welcome to Seize the A. Thank you.
I'm so excited to be here, Sarah, thank you so much for having me.
It is such a pleasure.
And this is extra special because, as all of you listeners already know, I love to get people in the neighborhood to dob in people who are doing really cool things, and this came about because of a nomination from Emily de Wilgers. If it is Emily Deues or Emily just something else. M I'm so sorry for buttsuring the pronunciation of your surname, but thank you so much for recommending Allison. Big shout out to you and Alison. Thank you for saying yes to my cold call.
I was really really humbled that Emily did that.
She's such a such a remarkable, beautiful, beautiful person, and it's really confronting and humbling when someone says, no, you should go on a podcast and talk about yourself with me.
No, no, what I shouldn't do that.
She's a special person for thinking, you know, nice things about her friend. So thanks, thanks also, Am, and thanks Sarah.
Oh my gosh.
The extent of Allison's humility is literally such that we have just spent ten minutes before starting recording already going through the self doubt and the why am I here and the oh my god, I'm nervous, and as you will hear very quickly, Alison's story is absolutely extraordinary. I haven't even gotten to the meat of it yet, and I just think it's so inspiring and cool and diverse.
So it's interesting that even people whose stories can make your jawge, I'm still, you know, worry about whether it's worthy to talk about it or you know, as you said, Allison, it's normalized in your mind. But that's why it's so cool to hear about it, because it is normalized in your mind.
You know. Well, thanks for selling me out.
Yeah, I just put that straight out there.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
So as you know, I can't believe you have listened to the backlog of episodes as well. That also makes me feel like, oh my gosh, she's actually listen.
This is so cool.
I love to start by asking everyone what the most down to earth thing is about them, and normally I call it an icebreaker, but that feels even more special given that you have worked in the Antarctic.
So what is something really normal about you?
Pun intended like, I honestly missed this question, so I'm I'm off the cup for this one. And I would.
Say that it's really normal for me to have spoken to my dad this morning and told him I was really excited doing this podcast, and he said to me, Allison, just don't speak too quickly. Always speak too quickly when you get excited and nervous and you know, passionate. So I think I think it's pretty noral to just people get excited and speak too quickly.
That's me to a tea.
Oh my gosh.
I get told that all the time, especially when it's someone's story that I'm like and that I have read about, you know, in the background, so I kind of think, you know, I'm familiar with parts of the story. So then I go really fast, and then people who are listening to it for the first time are like, dude, you're skipping over so many details.
Just slow it down. I'm like, I'm excited. I'm excited. I want to tell your entire story.
And speaking of now, we are actually going to dive into the juice of your beautiful storyly as you know, the first section is your wayta and tracing back through all the different chapters that took you to where you are today. And it was really interesting if I had walked into your life at this chapter, of which we will obviously build up to, but you know, founding an eco friendly, sustainable.
Dog food business.
All the other dots in your story don't necessarily connect, you know, in the most upfront, obvious way. But that's my favorite kind of story to get into. So can you take us all the way back to the very beginning from you know, your childhood, your youngest self, your earliest memories of what you were like, and you know what you wanted to be.
Yeah, you're so right.
The dots don't naturally connect, and I forget that when I make these leaps.
But I think I just.
Had such a privileged childhood, not in the sense of you know, extraordinary wealth or anything. I mean, I never wanted for clothes on my back or a meal on my plate.
But I think what I mean.
Is we were privileged in the sense that I was raised in a loving household with parents who valued education and you know, just put family first. And so that is my overriding starting point, is that I really value my family and they. I think I had a happy childhood. I feel like I did, and I was a pretty determined kid, you know. I'm sure that was frustrated at times my siblings and my parents, but just determined to look I'm sure I was determined to get what I wanted.
But what I did appreciate is that my father was in the military, and so we moved around every two to three years, sometimes more frequently, and what was consistent for me was our family units. It did mean that every year or two in school, I was the new kid, and that, you know, I think it built a level of resilience, for sure, But it also meant that I was constantly just trying to fit in and not sort of stick out and be noticed.
More than you already were being the new kid. So I think that sort of you know, that shaped me a lot as well.
I don't rock the boat too much and don't do anything that is going to make you stand out because you're already are a new kid, So that's probably an interesting part as well. But otherwise, I feel like I had a really lucky, good, happy childhood.
That's so interesting. I often think, and you've probably heard me say that, I get so fascinated by niche communities,
niche areas of interest, but also niche experiences. And you know, for anyone who hasn't grown up in a military family, it's just an upbringing and like life experience that we can't you know, understand, but I'm sure like within your group of kids who grow up in military families, you all understand the ins and outs of what it's involved to move around so much, but just hearing it, you know, as an outsider. Of course, I've like, I watch NCAS.
I'm obsessed with that show, and there's this ongoing theme of people who grow up on basis or moving, you know, once every year and it's a new school, and how unsettling that can be. Like that, from such an early stage in your life made you so much like you had a crash course in change, like constant change, and I can't imagine how challenging that was, but also how much it set you up for life being a constant barrage of change.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think, you know, you can really see that not all humans are created equal because I felt like it was okay for me, you know, I found it challenging, but I found ways to make it work for me.
But I also saw in the community that not everyone found it that easy.
And I think having the compassion to see that just because it wasn't super hard for me, it doesn't mean it wasn't super hard for other people.
That was an early lesson as well. For sure.
Yeah, absolutely, And I looked back to younger men. I didn't move house for my whole childhood and my whole schooling, and even with that kind of environmental stability, I found it incredibly difficult to kind of figure out who I was and what I wanted and what was interesting and what wasn't. And so I can't imagine like the added layer of change of environment as well as trying to work out, you know, who you wanted to be. But it is interesting that your earliest beginnings were in the army.
But how did that come about? Was it because it was what you knew? I read that you studied history and it at UNI. What did you think that would lead to? Or was it always with the army in mind?
That's such a good point, Like the whole I didn't I didn't quite know where I was going to fit in, and it didn't quite work out who I wanted to be. And I wish I had a much better answer for you than what I do, but that was my problem. I didn't quite know who I was, or what I went on to do, or where I wanted to be.
And that's really what led me to the army. Again, I wish it was a much more sophisticated answer, but you know, I had exposure to it through my father, but that wasn't necessarily the experience that made me want to join it, because as far as I was concerned in my sort of you know, very insular teenage head, the army just forced you to move away from your friends every year or so.
That wasn't necessarily a good thing. What did it?
Was this girl who was twelve months ahead of me in my high school in that particular year, and she joined the army, and I just thought I looked up to her and thought she was the most.
Together, balanced person.
And you know, I suppose that was what I was craving, because I think, you know, I could equally looked up to someone who was creative, and you know, but that wasn't what I was craving. I was craving, you know, rationalization. And so I thought, right, she's got it going on. She joined the army and she went to military university. I thought, well, that's what I could do. I applied for other universities and I got in, but I didn't know that that's for sure what I wanted to do.
So the Army was a really great way to get a great education and to set me up with some skills. And while I figured out what my calling was, I knew I could provide good service and do something good for the country. So that's how it ended up. It was really lack of direction.
I love that.
I think actually quite a lot of people, maybe even the majority of people, that is their first career choice, their first career choice is like process of elimination.
Still don't know what they want to do.
Just choose something to delay the decision, but give you like a purpose and a direction in the meantime, which is you know, it's more normal than you would expect, I think, But it's really cool that I think the military, as far as I've heard, I have lots of friends who are either still in the military or began their journey that way or have moved into it. And the structure and like the diversity of skills that you gain or not you want to end up. You know, with
a lifelong military career. It does teach you a lot that helps army for the world. It does give you access to education, It does kind of give you discipline and networking and helps you figure out who you are in an amazing way. And I yeah, I would have Like in other circumstances, I think I could definitely have done the same and started my career off that way. What was it like as a woman when you started?
Look, I think when I started, it was it was a long time ago. I'm showing my age for sure, but it was. You know, a lot has changed since then, and I think all lived experiences are very different, right, but mine was overall positive. The military will always reflect to a degree, will always reflect society so you know, can I say that, you know, it's an organization that has amazing people.
Yes?
Can I also say that it's an organization that has people that you know are progressive as others? Absolutely, and you see that because again it's the way society is so overall positive my lived experience, But what I think, you know, I really valued was a hugely diverse career working alongside some really remarkable people. And I saw, you know, great acts of sacrifice and humility and dedication and passion. It's really hard to sum up like a seventeen year career.
In a few words, but what.
Stands out, like the good things are the most things that stand out for me, which is which is a privilege.
I recognize that.
But funny things like I was I was overseas at one point, and I was working in an operational headquarters and I was the communications officers. I was sort of based in the headquarters, but we had teams that were going out and you know, on the front line doing really you know, really difficult things, and they would sometimes go out for three or four days at a time, and you know, you never knew when they were going
to come back. We could sort of see what their experiences were, because we would be you know, tracking what they were doing and getting their reporting. But the guys that were actually out there trying to do some good and trying to support the local people were working really hard. And sometimes they'd come back in at two or three in the morning, having been out there for four days.
And it was always that balance.
You know, they knew they were going to be out there for a few days, so they'd want to take enough food. But the more food you took, the more.
You had to carry.
So typically they'd come back hungry at two am, having you know, really really worked hard and suffered and you know, sacrificed in many cases, and they'd come back and they just walk into the barracks and go to bed, and I just it would make my heart so sad, because I thought, you guys have just been out there. You need someone to come and just give you a.
Hearty thank you. In some cases, that's wildly inappropriate.
So what I what I did appreciate, and this is again just sort of the acts of kindness and humility that I'd see.
You'd get.
The kitchens over there were supported by locals who were local contractors who were employed to come in and cook. But there would always be some military military chefs that were there that would run the kitchen. And these guys would always, without a doubt, get up at two am, and they were paid more for it, but they just
put on party pies. So the guys came back, and the guys and girls and they had a bit of warm food and they had someone there, you know, just providing some kindness, and then those sorts of things that the funny things that you remember, like that there was happy times, sad times, fun times, not so fun times, but I like the caring times, I think, and I think the thing that I took away from it was, you know, you said, what was lack as a woman? I was a minority. I was a huge minority. Times
have changed since, but back then, massive minority. It meant that I was very, very comfortable spending a lot of time with just men. But it meant that the few women I had around me I cherished. I absolutely cherished. And these women that I started my military days with are still some of my closest confidants and the most incredible, strong, resilient women I've ever ever known, and they will always be be sisters to me, and I can't be more grateful for them. And some of them were mind blowing,
like they seemed to have it together. They seem to really know exactly what they wanted to do and exactly who they were, and I didn't, so I just looked up to them as well.
Yeah, it's funny what you said about, you know, the kindness and humanity being the thing that really stood out. And I think the you know, alongside sometimes the worst state of humanity that you ever see is often like the greatest kindness and selflessness that you will also ever see, Like it brings out the better side of humans as well, and so you do. I mean, it's probably so much to coat with kind of seeing both ends of the spectrum, but it is beautiful that the kindness is what you remember.
And even just the fact that you said military chefs. I think when people think of the military, I think of you like already to go on the front line, you know, with all your battle gear, wall paint on. But of course it's easy to forget as a civilian that like, the army needs chefs, the army needs lawyers, the army needs like all the roles that normal society need the army also needs that involves not only actually going into battle. You know, there are so many things
you can do in the army. So what were your roles and did they shift kind of obviously over seventeen years, what were the different things you did and how you moved between them and even going overseas, like where were you stationed and how long was that for? And you know what did that career allow you to do?
So much diversity, Sarah, And that's one of the things I really loved so training roles. Was a trainee for a long time, but then I also would go back to those training institutions as an instructor, so in a training.
Sort of teaching role.
That was really good to sort of have the ability to shape and educate others. Liaison roles, so sort of working with outside of defense and working with other government departments, and that was really interesting because you could see sort of how the bigger system works and really how it
all comes together to provide capability. And you know, effectively you're an arm of the government, so you're helping them operational role and that is you know, in units that were sort of there, they exist in order to provide that capability overseas should it be required, and that comes
with you know, a lot of different skills. And if I sort of try and put it into terms that are less military, you know, there's governance, and there's you know, financial delegations, and there's training programs and resource management.
All of those things exist, we just call them more military terms.
But doing all of these, all of those things, that's all part of it.
So yeah, just lots of really different jobs.
I also spent a year studying at their Defense Force School of Languages, which was so privileged, so lots of good memories there.
Yeah, really really diverse role, and.
My specialty was communications, but I found myself working outside of that role as much as I was working in it. Wow.
I don't know, if you know, A one of my big not passions, and I don't know if it's really a passion because I don't I'm not involved in the military, but I find the military so fascinating. It's one of the things I read up extensively on. I have my grandfather's have war journals like. I find that stuff so interesting. But languages are my great passion. I studied all languages in my arts degree at UNI, and So the opportunity to study languages inside the military, to me, that's like
the coolest thing ever. What languages did you learn and did you get to use them in practice?
They so cool?
It was. It was a pretty amazing opportunity.
And you know, languages ease up just one and I struggled with that still. So anyone who can speak multiple languages, I'm just in awe. I learned Mandarin and I just loved it, absolutely loved it. Loved the you know, the cultural side as well. And I saw learning a language as kind of finding a more broad way.
To express yourself.
So you know, you know, you know the word for heart in English, knowing it in two languages to me, just gives it more meaning. You know, there's more heart when you can say it in a couple of different ways. But I loved it, and it was going to be quite military specific language, so you know, I was hoping to be able to speak about bilateral relations and you know, those sorts of topics. But that it's such a perishable skill, that's all gone.
I'm sure the muscle memory would be there, dormant.
Yeah, So that's a lack of discipline on my behalf. But I did love it. I absolutely loved it, and it led to other things which we'll get into later.
I think.
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show notes for you to check it out. I mean, a seventeen year military career is like for a lot of people, you know, that's that's the big part, the big chunk of the way ta or the path ya. But that was just the start for you that then launched into being an antarctic and arctic expeditionally that which is not the most straightforward thing that comes after, and that's still not even the point where you know, we're at at this point in time now, So can you
talk to us about what the next chapter was? But also how you know when you're ready for a new chapter, because I think people don't necessarily know when they're agitating
for change and then how to execute that change. And it's easy to become not complacent, but to sit in one thing that you're familiar with for a really long time, and especially if there's lots of diversity and ladders to climb and directions to go, you know, it's I think some people don't ever walk away from the chapter they start in so how did you make that big shift into a whole new chapter.
Yes, so right, like it is scary, I think is the term I would use to leave the security of a full time job that you know you can do and you know you can and find stability. And so I didn't seek it. I wasn't looking for a change. I really loved my service and I felt like I was doing good. But it presented and it came at a time where you know, they're serving in their military. For me, anyway, was very much it was a lifestyle choice.
It wasn't just a job because you committed. I committed so much to it at the cost in many ways of time with my family, and my mum was unwell, and I really felt like I wanted to, you know, spend a bit more time with her. And you can, you can go into the military and choose jobs that are a little less demanding, but that wasn't what I loved about it. So it's sort of it came at a time where there were a few things making me, I suppose, just question whether I wanted to give at
that same level. But really, I think I could sum it up just by saying the opportunity presented, and I think I would have regretted not trying and not taking it.
Wow, And so how did it come about?
I also love that reminder that you know, sometimes you go out seeking the next chapter. Sometimes you don't know you're already until it arrives on your lap. And who is it that says something about being where the lightning strikes, Like you know, sometimes you don't actually need to be actively seeking something else else, but you do need to be overminded when it does actually come your way. Was it literally met like were you already in Antarctica or in the Arctic?
No? So it started because of my most amazing mother.
So she decided to get my dad a birthday present for his sixtieth birthday, and I feel indulge me.
For just a moment.
My dad, who'd spent his time in the military, was always obsessed with the heroic age of Antarctic exploration.
Think you know Ernest Shackleton.
And so Robert Falcom Scott and all of these really you know, impressive pioneers of poul of travel. He was obsessed to the point where when he was five, he'd come up to me and say, Allison, who was in Scott's last push to get to the South Pole, and what did they die on the way home? And that's honestly a little morbid. But I thought that was standard questioning required a five year olds. I thought that's what
everyone's dad's were. It turns out not. It turns out he was just a bit obsessed, and you know, he it was just his interest, his hobby. So for his sixtieth birthday, my mom gave him a trip to Antarctica.
It was a big.
Surprise, and she gave him my brother, my sister, and I and I suppose the most beautiful part is my mom was sick at the time with a chronic illness, and so she sent the four people she loved most in the world on the trip of a lifetime, knowing she could never go.
I know, she's just beautiful.
Oh my god, she did. Oh what a beautiful woman.
She's amazing, and she's since passed.
So it's her legacy that, like, I went to Antarctica and I just felt a little bit changed for it. I know Antarctica does that to a lot of people, lots of travel, lots of experiences do but you know, just provided this perspective and the perspective was I felt like I got down there and you feel the enormity of the place. It is so vast and so wild, and you are such a small small part of what feels like a beautiful, complex and massive ecosystem, and like
I just I really felt changed for it. So I came back after that was a great family trip, thank you Mum, and came back and continue to serve and love it. But it was in my head, it was like there was this call to return that I had never really felt, you know, felt before, and I just I really wanted to get back there. And so the company that I went with on that fabulous trip was seeking to expand and they were looking for Mandarin linguists. No, yeah,
and I knew I wasn't a good one. I knew I could speak about bilateral relations, but I could speak about England's.
I couldn't speak practical.
I couldn't speak about you know, glaciers and icebergs. So I knew I was going to be pretty subpar. But I was transparent about that upfront. But you know, they saw it as sort of a gesture. They know he's someone that can start out program and will just get better.
And thankfully they did get a lot better than me.
They now have very very impressive mansion linguists, and they've moved me on to other jobs because I was really quite rubbish at that. But that's what got me in the door, and I'm so so so grateful for that because now I get to go to the Antarctic and the Arctic as well. Then they're both so beautiful and so different, and I work with the most incredible people. They are outdoor nerds, and as far as I'm concerned, they're just the you know, the most fabulous, beautiful teams.
And every time I go, I'm humbled by the place. It is.
It is not to be trifled with. You can't you can't take any arrogance to those wild places, and it is it is just beauty upon beauty every time.
Oh my gosh, I can't even fathom. But I have had experiences, not in Antarctica, but with vastness, like vastness to the point of almost agrophobia, where you just kind of like, do I exist? Like there is nothing you know, existential though, but you don't. There's too much noise and stuff normally in your life to ever get to that point.
But like we were in the outback in the Flint's Rangers recently, and that vastness of like there is nothing for like kilometers and kilometers and kilometers and you can see the moon and like you do have like this weird existential moment of like am I alive?
Like I'm so tiny? Like what is time? What is space? What is humanity?
And like nothing measures up to those experiences. Once you've had one of being like it's vastness, I think that brings it on and like it's just I know what you mean, You're forever changed. And then you kind of come back into the city and you're like, oh, I can't I can't be the same as I.
Was before that, you said, really really beautifully and amusingly.
Yeah, that's my brain was literally like ah. And we had this saying like Nick and I, you know, done the humalayas and like big just gigantic natural formations where human life is not as widespread as it is here.
It just does something to you.
And I think I'm not one hundred percent sure yet, but I think I get the chance to visit Antarctica at the end of this year, and I'm so so excited because I think like it's one of those complete perspective shifting, transformative experiences, and I can't imagine being an explanition leader there, Like that is so extraordinary.
I feel like I need to talk to you more about this, about this.
Yeah, wow, I really hope you get to go.
Oh, oh my gosh, I can't. Oh, so you did that for eight years before, like another big kind of quantum shift happened in your orbit In that chapter leaving the military, I can imagine like going into a civilian, structured life, but also not not exactly a conventional life. Let's be real, going back and forward from Antarctica, what was that chapter?
Like? What was you know? I think we all often live like so far in the future of like is this forever? What is this going to mean?
Were you just living in the moment and you know, were you like I'm going to move, I want to live here, Like what was your kind of head doing in terms of your pathway at that time?
That's such a nice question.
It was kind of reeling because I had taken this massive leap and I probably wouldn't have done it without seeing some at least having exposure to that through you know, some other really raven cool people that I'd met along the way, mostly skiing actually, you know, looking at people that work in those.
Sorts of industries and yeah, that make it work.
So you know, I think the transition wasn't as jarring as what it could have been because I felt like I was still working in small teams, which is which felt very very comfortable to me. We were still working in pretty extreme environments, which also felt very very natural and comfortable in Zahweh, Antarctica and never, you don't never want to be comfortable and complacent. But that part wasn't the hard part, And the thing I liked was coming
in with with no I suppose baggage. You know, the military is a small place and you know, mostly people know you, and I suppose there is a rank structure. I mean that it's not terribly important or facets of it, but you know, you wear it on your uniform and so people see you and immediately associate what experiences you
have and what responsibilities you might have based on that rank. Like, there's not a lot of judgment with it, That's not what I'm trying to say, but you know, there is an expectation, and so I came into an organization that you don't have that expectation. You know, it's just up to you to be who you are and for them to see you on merit without that initial perception of expectation.
And I came here like right at the at the lowest level too, and you know, it was kind of cool to work your way back up through an organization and sort of learn and then gain that extra responsibility over time. So those things were kind of really refreshing. I quite like that about it.
Yeah, that's really cool because I think sometimes in making such a big shift, particularly out of the military, I've found, like a couple of other guests who have had careers after their time in service have found unwrapping their identity from that structure and prestige but also recognition of rank and that kind of thing actually was a really hard
part of their identity to let go of. But I love the perspective that it can also be very refreshing because suddenly you aren't defined in a certain box or in a certain way just on arrive, like on site, people already know something about you. That's really cool that it can also be liberating.
But tell you what I did find though, like in the military as a sort of a military person. I think I would have described myself as quite sort of a nurturing and not always I didn't always get it right, but you know, more on the gentle sort of military sign. You know, there's some really strong people, and I never considered myself that. I was always kind of a bit more gently gently. So when I went to a civilian organization my baseline where I was in the military, you know,
very very democratic and very very gentle. Transferring exactly the same personality to another organization, I was hard and I had to really tone it down because their baseline is just very different. And that was a huge learning for me. I thought, oh no, this is a different organization, and I thought, the military it represents our society, and it does in some ways.
But you know, the diversity I.
Found in working in a multinational team in the middle of international waters was so fabulous. I just I saw different styles of leadership that you know, it's not that the military wouldn't cope with them, it's just that these types of leaders probably would never be attracted to the military, right, you know, And that diversity, gosh, it was so nourishing and so enriching, and I really I grew massively as a human for having that experience outside of the military as well.
That is so cool.
And I'll also just point out to our audience that Allison is not extraordinarily high. That's her dog in the background and making the little noises. It sounded like it was a tummy grumble, but it was the dot no It's so beautiful. I feel like Paul at some point,
would you'p in. People in our audiences are very familiar with dog noises on this show, so speaking of dog it's really really cool to me that again the next dot point so far and definitely not the last dot point I'm sure is again completely not the logical step that you would expect. So I don't think that the connection between antarctica and maggots seems especially straightforward, nor does maggots to dog food. But you have somehow tied all
the dots together. What in your life, like the daily life of you know, doing expeditions in Antarctica led you to a sustainable dog food business. And also I did forget to ask in that role in Antarctica, like how long were you there and what was your day to day that like, you know, when you lead someone on expedition, how long is that?
What are you doing?
Sorry, that's eight hundred questions in one go. I'm obviously too fascinated by you. Whatever you like to answer, answer it in that order.
So Antarctica and the Arctic both equally as beautiful and as amazing. And you know, our trips where we're ship based, it's tourism, and you know, we try and make it as responsible tourism as possible. It's ship based, and the trips can go anywhere from say nine days up to twenty two days in the Antarctic and sort of similar spans in the Arctic as well. And our aim is that the ships are beautiful, but our aim is to actually not be on the ships. Our aim is to
get into the wild. And so what that normally looks like is getting off the ship if possible, twice a day, so after breakfast, between breakfast and lunch out doing something amazing, and then equally after lunch before dinner out doing something amazing, and then just really back on the ship eating. We also have a really an education program I'm really proud of.
So we have all of these specialists, glaciologists, ornithologists, that's that's bird peoples, historians, photographers, all of these really technically specialist people, and they really shine when they get to provide context to everything that a fabulous guests is seeing, you know, they bring it to life by For instance, the first time I saw a blue whale, oh my god, it was amazing. I can't even tell you how incredible
it was. But I had a marine biologist with me, and it was two am and we'd seen it, and it was my first blue whale. And she was just beside herself with excitement as well, because this is like a once in our lifetime viewing.
It really is.
You don't get to see these remarkable things very often. And she said, we have to wake up the ship.
We have to tell everyone.
So we did, and she gets on, she gets on the public addressed system, she has everyone get out here. There is a blue whale. You have to come and see it. And then she just keeps telling about it. She's right, everyone, this blue whale. These guys are the size of a seven four seven is the size of a small a child can swim through at say Orta Like, she just provides all of these beautiful little things that make you realize that this this creature will not functionally
exist on land. It is so so big that it will just be completely impractical. And you know they get I just work with these people that get really passionate about what they're doing and how they how they deliver this education.
So it really it really brings a place to life. And it's oh my.
Gosh, that just makes me so excited.
I mean, you know, my passion is listening to other people talk about what they're passionate about, but particularly in areas of passion that are not super common or that aren't you know, you don't graduate school thinking I'm going to be a glaciologist, like who even knows that they exist? But that is so cool, Oh my gosh, pretty amazing. And so how did then the idea for a dog
food business come about? I know that it was like linked in with the impact of climate change, which is alarmingly more visible in a landscape as vast and perhaps and not as blocked by kind of noise and business in the city life.
But how does that translate into dog food?
Can you hear my dog in the background going.
Well, I can tell you the story.
Yeah, the link makes sense in yeah, it's a tenuous one, but it was logical to me because I was seeing the effects of the way I was living my life at home in Australia, and I was seeing the effects of that in these beautiful places that I'd completely fallen in love with. And what I was finding is that every fifteen to twenty days we would take a whole bunch of you know, fantastic new people down and they would fall in love with it as well. So I thought, well,
here we have a captive audience. Antarctica is an incredible place, but it has no technical borders, it has no elected government, it has no currency, it has no native population. So you know, it's got some great treaties around it that protect it, but it doesn't have a voice in the same way that you know, Australia has a voice. So what I hoped to do was have, you know, give
people this experience as an expedition leader. I hope that I could make them love it as much as I did, so that they would go away and think that is worth conserving, That is worth worth you know, making a small change or you know, advocating for in my future when I return home. And so you know, the people that go to Antactic. Honestly, I wish every person on the planet could go there, but they're not cheap trips to really save up to go on them. So the
people that were going were often educated. And I don't want to I don't want to generalize too much, but you know, the main demographic is someone who's educated, is either save for a long time and done really well to tick off this massive, massive trip, or you know, actually comes from a fairly wealthy background. And if that's the case, then they're in a really privileged position where they they might be able to speak with their money and they might be able to shop their values.
So my aim was to I can fall in love with it. Falling in love with it, which honestly.
Is nothing to do with me the places by themselves, but at least provide the opportunity for them to do that, and hope that they might go and do this, and I advocate for it. So I did this by then putting together a bit of a presentation about, you know, the state of the world and as it is in terms of our climates, and also by showcasing not in a super grim depressing way, but by showcasing what people are doing out there that could inspire them to do just that, to shop their.
Values or to be part of the change.
And so I'd come across these companies they were doing amazing things, and I'd talk about them and highlight them, and in doing so, I came across a couple of companies that were trying.
To fix two problems. Firstly, a waste problem.
That is to say, a lot of organic matter is sent to landfill where it decomposes and produces greenhouse gases and you know, often methane, which is particularly potent greenhouse gas. So there's a big waste problem, and there still is a big waste problem. So there was companies that were
solving both a waste problem and a protein problem. The protein problem is that the animal agriculture industry, and we've got some really great innovations in Australia improving it, but the animal agriculture industry typically has quite a high carbon footprint, and so these companies were using insects to solve a waste problem and to provide sustainable protein. So I started talking about these just as you know, random things that
people were doing. And then I'd come back to Australia, and I think, you know, here I am taking people to Antarctica and the Arctic and then talking about how we can all make choices that will hopefully help help these places. I really have to start practicing what I preach, so I thought, well, maybe I can. I can make some sustainable protein too, And that's how it started.
Oh my gosh, I get just so excited hearing how like small tiny foundations or people you meet, or conversations you have all start to add up to, Like you can see the momentum building, Like the snowball starts, tiny snowball. Oh my god, in Antarctica, the snowball starts, but it starts to roll as you get more momentum and excitement and start, you know, working with like how what products would it be like filling the gaps and the jigsaw puzzle piece starts to come together.
It just makes me so excited hearing about it.
But also it's particularly I feel like sometimes almost always actually things come into your orbit for a reason, and often all at the same time. And I spent last night at the banks Heer Sustainability Awards with Lorel, who I've been working with and have just been speaking about like plastic eating enzymes and oh, it's just like, oh,
we were meant to have this conversation today. It's just I'm getting so passionate and excited about other people who are passionate and excited about bringing our awareness to the statistics about climate change and the environment that we're not talking about enough, but making it and packaging up it in ways that engage people to realize, you know, we need to do something, but also it can be cool
and exciting to do it, like that food. Yeah, So how did that next step of okay, sustainable proteins then convert into a business Because you know, a lot of people have great ideas and they see gaps that need to be filled, but actually doing that and getting a whole product off the ground. It's hard enough when the product exists, but when it doesn't and no one's really done it before and it's new technology, and like, I know, you know, you've got a zero waste business model that
in itself is enormously difficult. How did you get feed for thought, coolest name, by the way off the ground?
Much like you've just highlighted, it wasn't necessarily a linear, a linear or natural process so I knew I wanted to work with these phenomenal insects because they are just their environmental warriors. So I decided to start an insect farm and start really learning about these insects. And you know, it is every girl's dream to be a maggot farmer.
So absolutely I'm living.
What do you do? I'm a maggot farmer.
It's really glam yeah.
So and I can't even say that anymore. I'm no longer growing my own insects. But what I spent a.
Year and a half learning how to do that.
And you know, seeing that whatever you feed the insects when they're growing, when they're in lava form, you know that will result in a different nutrition makeup and at the other end, so you know, really understanding that process. And I thought I was going to do something with that insect farm. When I started, I thought, yep, I'm going to grow sustainable protein and sell sustainable protein.
But you've got to kind of work out what you're going.
To sell sustainable protein too, And I thought, well, what I would do is showcase what you could turn it into, so that will get investors to come in and help me scale up insect farm, because it's huge technology and huge investment to take it from a really mandrolic process into a technologically advanced, scalable system. So I thought, I know, I will show what it can be used for. And at that point I'd sort of had been researching what it can be used for.
And there was some.
Really great companies in the UK and in Europe and in eating Canada that we're using this particular insect in dog food because it serendipitously has some really great fatty acids and some really great vitamins and minerals that are are conducive to a dog's diet. So I got a vet on board. I knew this wonderful, wonderful, incredibly talented, astute and intelligent vet, and I said, is this a thing? Can we try this? And she did a bunch of
research and we eventually realized that we could. We could make dog food out of this protein.
So we did.
We came up with a recipe, and then I realized that I was an idiot because you can't, well, I couldn't do all of this scaling of the insect farm and then grow a dog food business, which I was really laughing, and my dog was loving, so use one or the other. So I thought, I know, there's some other really great fly farmers in Australia, but there's no one turning it into dog food. I can use their
insects and make it into my dog food. And so that's what we did, and that's what we sort of spent the next year or so formulating and testing and coming out with a product.
Oh my gosh, that's so extraordinary. I just love seeing how it all like.
It didn't even start as dog food. You know, I think people really have this misconception that you have to start out with like a five year plan and know exactly where you're going. And you know, you can just start with an idea that then evolves very quickly into a totally different idea, but you just have to start. And then once you start, everything all else kind of falls into place.
And sure it's not ideal, like ideally I would have had a really robust and workable business plan that knew exactly what I was going to do and exactly how it's going to sell.
But it's just not what happened. And I'm okay with that now.
Absolutely extraordinary. So how long ago was that? And you know where are you at with the business now?
So that was.
Twenty nineteen when I started that, and I launched a a commercial product in September last year, so.
I've been a goose for a few months with the dog freed.
Oh my gosh, it's brand new.
Well, I'll have to include some links in the show notes so that we can all get feed for thought for our little fur babies. But also, I mean, you're literally doing such a huge amount of work on combating I was reading the twenty two percent of greenhouse gas emissions are caused by organic waste in landfill and animal agriculture, which just blows my mind. So, I mean, how exciting that this is what it's all culminated. And I'm so excited for you. Congratulations, Ah, thank you.
I feel so privileged and you're right, like it's really just it's showcasing the value of the circular economy.
You know.
I get to take unused food, feed it to an insect. That insect grows into a protein, so they take food, they turn themselves into food, and then I put that into more food and it just works so well.
It is so cool. I love that we were talking at the Bank Zery World.
Last night there was a lot of you know, discussions about circular farming and circular fashion and circular everything, and one of the guys has is doing a really sustainable way of producing train lines and it kept saying circular train line and I just had this image of like a train going around.
It's so.
It's not very efficient, but it's incredible.
The way that businesses are really changing the way that they use their power and making it possible to still have everything that we have in this life, but in a way that has a much more conscious and smaller footprint for the planet. It doesn't have to be done the way that we've always done it. And you know, huge props to you doing this, and especially given how randomly you kind of fell into it.
But it's so cool, thank.
You, and that that is the ultimate aim, just to you know, each of the kilo bags represents forty kilos of upcycled food, and I just I get so excited when I come across a product that you know, that I can use which is not any more inconvenient to me but just does some good. And you know, kip cups, free range eggs, zero co cleaning products or who gives a crap dog food. They are all just good examples of products that you know, can you can choose that
just make you feel good. And that's that's what I want. I want you to just people to be able to feel good about what they're choosing.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I literally just had a box of zero co cleaning products delivered, like a whole box of stuff because I
didn't know that existed until just recently. And I'm like, there's like, as a consumer making those swaps, it's not difficult, like it No, it can sometimes be a little bit more expensive, but if you're as passionate as you know, once you hear the difference it makes, then most of the time I find like, in your mind that extra money it makes no difference when you know that the huge difference in impact to the you you're making with that choice. It's just but in terms of inconvenience, it's
no more inconvenient. You just buy it from somewhere else. And it's amazing how many options they are out there now.
Yeah, yeah exactly, and that I really get excited about that.
Well, neighborhood, please get around feed for thought, because I think you know all our fur babies could benefit so much from it, but also the planet and get behind Allison, because I mean, what an amazing story. And I've been so enamored with your story that I have used the entire episode on the story instead of anything else. But that, to me is absolutely okay, because it's been such an
incredible story. But I'd love to just finish by asking you about you know, who you are outside of work, which is traditionally what I you know, try and talk about more because I know the measure of our identity is and our productivity. But you've just been so interesting. I'm so sorry I've spent so long on what you do, not who you are. But how do you play outside of all these extraordinary things? What do you do that's just for fun?
I think I get so much enrichment from from my family and some really fabulous, phenomenal girlfriends. I think that's probably what feels my cup of tea my teak up the most. But also I have a dog, and he's amazing, and the good thing about him is that he's active. He gets me outdoors twice a day every day, and even on the days where I don't feel like necessarily going out in the rain, I just I do love being in the outdoors. I love skiing, I love going
to Paula Regions. You know, the outdoors is a really special place. But you know, I feel a little bit inferior when people are like, oh, I have to be in the outdoors. Sometimes I actually don't want to. Sometimes I want to stay warm if I even if I when I go outside, I'm always I always feel better for it afterwards. So you know, the outdoors and family and friends are really and I love baking too.
Oh isn't it funny that often, like you know, sometimes there'll be a really elaborate answer to this question where it's you know, a specific type of pottery or something you know, really, but often it's just really simple things like just going outside or being with my friends or
reading a book. Like it's funny how much our lives are you know, have strayed so far from the basics, but you know we can get a lot of joy and pleasure from making time for them somewhere in amongst the antarctica and the circular farming and all the incredible.
Work you're doing.
Second last question, what are three interesting things about you that don't normally come up in conversation.
HM.
Again, this goes back to I'm not sure if anyone will find these things interesting, but I don't normally talk about the fact that I have really immature taste once.
And that yourself is so immature.
So I want to like spicy food, but also manifest in other ways, like I'm not particularly fond of alcohol and drink, and I don't talk about that much because I get I got dumped once.
Oh my god. I'm always really worried that people are going to go, oh, you social pariah.
You were ahead of your time. You know the non alcoholic alcohol movement. There's about to be a whole Dan Murphy's. That's just non alcoholic alcohol, a whole Dan murphy Store.
Well, those people that mocked me can jump. I don't often lead with that because yeah, I think would be like, oh maybe I can't trust you.
I'm so much fun.
I'm fun naturally. So there.
Number two.
I love Christmas carols, and I love Christmass so much that I don't like to wait until December because you get so much story for something, why not just play them all year?
So my loty habit is I will often work out to Christmas.
Carols, shut up. That's so cool.
I love that so much. But I must say, are you sure that's not why you were dumped? That you were singing Christmas carols in.
Like you know, may or something.
I love that You're like, you know what, screw the judgment. I will not be put in a box. I will not only sing in December.
It's my happy song, you know, whatever gets you popped up.
And the last thing, in fact, it's not even about me, but I think I have I'm really humble to be the human to an incredible dog, my dog Max.
But the interesting thing.
About him is that he has he has a face full of PTSD post traumatic stress disorder.
He's a re homed military dog.
I was gonna say, oh my god, so he's.
Got PTSD because he didn't quite cut it in that career. He was supposed to be an attack dog, but he was scared of everything. I think Ducks was the last raw. When he went away right away from Ducks, that were like, oh, you're just not not the right temperament. So then they used him as a training aid and in a training role, and they would teach humans to jump out of planes with dogs with the training dog, and so he's done. He's done about one hundred para jumps.
And oh my god.
But he's just he pretty much.
Assumes that every new person he meets he's going to throw him out of a plane.
So it's just a bit nervous.
But I don't blame you.
I'm actually really glad you didn't tell me that before, because the entire episode would have been about Max's career. And like he's way to ya, because I'm obsessed with dogs. I'm obsessed with the military. I'm obsessed with military dogs.
There's a movie.
Called Meghan Reed I think it is, which is like based on a true story about Meghan and her military dog.
And one of our listeners.
Actually recommended to Kate Ryder, who's been on the show and he's part of the neighborhood, sent me the DVD because she knew I liked dogs and war and like, I cried so much, and I just think dogs that have jobs are the coolest things in the entire world. And Max is like a hero and like a you know, global treasure govern ran a little Oh what a beautiful boy.
He's the sweetest thing.
Oh and like you know how they have the Harness's and they jump in the little hartness.
Oh my god, it's so cute.
Any YouTube dogs, they put cameras on the back of dogs, and some of them when they jump down and they're released, the cameras on and they just go berserk, and so the footage is really funny.
Oh my god.
Well that's just made my day. That's what I'm going to spend the rest of the afternoon doing. Final question, Since I love quotes so much, what is your favorite quote?
Okay, look, my go to is Margaret Mead because she says that you know, never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing they ever has. So I do like that one. But I think of late, you know, I think everyone just needs to certainly for me, you know, you need we've come out of a rough couple of years and the world can seem like a bit of a grim place. And so I really love this one from Tim Minchin, which is, don't seek happiness if you think of it
too much, it goes away. Keep busy and aim to make someone else happy, and you might find you get some as a side effect.
And I really really love that.
Oh my gosh, that is absolutely beautiful and the perfect way to end. Allison, thank you so much. You've been absolutely extraordinary. Thank you Emily for the recommendation. It's just been a joy, and I hope one day we can catch up in person and be best friends forever.
Thank you, I can. I'm true.
Ah.
What an amazing woman Allison is. I feel like after every coore guest we have on, I want to become them or do what they do and go to the Arctic or Antarctic and make a business that's all zero carbon and eco friendly and sustainable.
Oh my gosh.
It's kind of like when you go to a new city and decide that you want to live there forever.
But I kind feel like I do that everywhere I go, So I really just need to come my farm.
I'll pop links to Feed for Thought in the show notes so you can check out Allison's beautiful business. I hope you all have an amazing Easter break, and we'll be back with the very related birthday Q and a installment of Yay's of our Lives next week. If you have any questions at all for A or I or both of us, please shoot us a DM or an email and we'll include as many as we can. In the meantime, I hope you're seizing your yea