[00:00:00] Laura: Knowing what I experienced when I was grieving and what it was that I found comfort in trying to remember that when I'm in that situation, being what that grieving person needs at the time.
[00:00:12] Jill: Welcome back to Seeing Death Clearly. I'm your host, Jill McClennen, a death doula and end-of-life coach. The conversations I have with my guests may challenge you to think outside the box of what you believe to be true about death, dying, and the afterlife.
In this episode, my guest is Laura West. Laura is a nurse and a psychic medium, so her perspective on death comes from two very different worlds. Laura also shares about grieving after really accepting her mediumship abilities. Where she believes she should grieve differently because she knows that our soul is still around.
[00:00:47] In this episode, we mentioned when I was on Laura's podcast as well as an episode she did about processing anxiety after being spiritually awakened. There's a link in the timestamps to both of those episodes if you would like to listen. Thank you so much for joining us. Laura, welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:05] Thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:07] Laura: Thank you so much for having me, Jill. It's such an honor to be here with you.
[00:01:11] Jill: I'm excited to chat again. I was on Laura's podcast, I don't know, months ago. I don't even remember when, and I really enjoyed our conversation the first time, so I'm excited to have another conversation with you.
[00:01:23] I am too. Yeah. Good, good. Can you just tell me a little bit about your background, where you're from originally, how old you are, and maybe your religious beliefs growing up, just so the listeners can get an idea of where your beliefs about death and dying kind of came from.
[00:01:38] Laura: Yeah, absolutely. So I am 41 years old and I was brought up in a Jewish and Christian household.
[00:01:48] I was also brought up in a multicultural household, Korean and Caucasian. And for me, where I grew up, my dad's retired Air Force, so we moved around a lot in my younger years, up until 1995, when I went into eighth grade, we were moving about every three and a half to four years. So prior to living in Southern California and San Diego County, where I do now, I didn't really know what to say, where I was from.
[00:02:18] I lived in other countries and in other states, but now when people ask me where I'm from because I've lived in San Diego for so long, since 1995, I now tell people that I'm from San Diego and I feel that all of those things, especially looking, in retrospect, have played such a role in shaping the person that I am.
[00:02:41] Not only was I exposed to different cultures and different religions, and even outside of those cultures and religions because my parents were so open about those things and, and introduced different ideas and teachings to my sister and myself, such as Buddhist teachings. And just all things spiritual, but it also allowed me to appreciate other cultures.
[00:03:08] And being in San Diego was obviously where I was meant to be because that's where I completed. Much of my education, that's where I found my, husband or we found each other and started my family and just have lived my life and become a nurse and worked in healthcare organizations here in San Diego, but then also been able to meet other amazing people.
[00:03:38] Both locally and internationally who have similar beliefs as I do, and that has allowed me to feel comfortable and I would say feel comfortable in being who I feel I am meant to be in this life at this time.
[00:03:59] Jill: That's amazing. And what a really interesting background, especially. For somebody like me that grew up in South Jersey, I didn't leave until I was 18, so my youth was very much the same from the moment I was born until I left. Yeah. But I did live in California for a little while and I can say for a fact that California is very different than anywhere else I've ever been in the world. And I didn't live in San Diego. I lived in San Francisco, but we did visit San Diego and it's amazing.
[00:04:32] I loved it there. The people and the vibe are very different than anywhere else I'd ever lived. Yeah. Or even visited. I mean, I've traveled. Yeah. We've been to Europe, you know, we've been to different places around the United States. California is very different, especially in the way that they face the end of life.
[00:04:52] There does seem to be, maybe it's more open, and mm-hmm. Just kind of, not that I'm gonna say welcoming. Welcoming feels like the wrong word, but it definitely feels like it's viewed more as a natural part of life. And so people face it a little bit differently. Where here in New Jersey, I find a lot of people, including people in the medical field, there's this view here.
[00:05:18] That's very in denial of death and talking about it and facing it, which I find interesting. You're a nurse, so you do work in the medical field in California. Yeah. So what do you find with your own beliefs as well as your coworkers? How do people there face death and dying and even terminal illnesses, things like that?
[00:05:39] Laura: That's a really good question. I think that we have a long way to go. As far as being comfortable talking about it, I think in the last few years our state approved doctor-assisted suicides, and I know that there have been patients who have taken that route and have been for that, and we have physicians that implement that.
[00:06:00] And then we have others who aren't comfortable doing that. You know, everybody's got their different comfort levels. I still think that it's something that's very taboo. I myself, am working on not letting it be such a topic that represents finality. Part of what I do as a psychic medium is to help educate, not only clients that come to me for readings, but loved ones, family members, and friends who maybe are experiencing somebody reaching the end of their physical life and providing that comfort that this is just the end of that physical body, but they continue on and not being afraid to have that. Conversation with people where maybe in the past it would've been more touchy, like walking on eggshells.
[00:06:50] Like, Ooh, what do I say here? And granted, you still have to be sensitive to what that person needs. Like maybe they don't wanna hear that, oh, but they're gonna always be with you. That will be comforting at some point, but maybe not right away. So I think it's still maybe not for me so much a matter of talking about death and talking about what happens when people die and things like that to the physical body.
I think it's more about being sensitive to what the surviving people, we say surviving, but what are they surviving? They're surviving of being on this hard, hard planet we call Earth, but helping them process it in a way that's helpful and not hindering or empty, I suppose.
[00:07:31] So I feel like a lot of it still is working around that. Saying or being what that grieving person needs at the time. By also knowing what I experienced when I was grieving and what it was that I found comfort in when people would. Try and gimme comforting words and things like that. So trying to remember that when I'm in that situation.
[00:07:57] But at the same time, like I feel that society is very curious and interested about death. And you know, this goes beyond my work as a nurse and my personal life. Just look at Netflix and all of the documentaries about serial killers and people who are murderers. I find those interesting too. So I think that there's definitely a fascination.
[00:08:21] Whether it's a fascination behind what is the psychology of these people or you know, like what, you know, what's, what do they do to these people? I, I guess, you know, there's different aspects of why we're fascinated with those sorts of documentaries, but they still surround that idea of death of the physical.
[00:08:39] And so, you know, there is definitely a morbid curiosity. Society has, and so it's, it's there. It's just having those conversations that actually hit maybe closer to home when it comes to a family member passing or a friend passing. That's, I think where the work really needs to be done when it does become personal, but having conversations like this is a good start and there.
[00:09:09] Maybe I'm just, you know, so submerged in this, this world of spirituality and psychic mediums, but I feel like there are a lot of people out there who are doing the work as a medium between this world and the other side. I think that helps people like you, Jill, and myself, who have these platforms, like these podcasts, and talk about these things freely so that we can help to maybe lessen any sort of sting or feeling of taboo that comes along with it.
[00:09:45] Death of the physical body when it comes to those that are close to us.
[00:09:50] Jill: I had heard somewhere along the way that part of the fascination that society has with death and dying in television and movies and all these other avenues is partially because we're not facing it in our daily life. Mm-hmm. Still searching out.
[00:10:10] Connection to death and dying, but we're doing it in a way that is almost like bypassing the real connection that we need by watching things. It's interesting how many people I'll talk to that will watch Netflix documentaries and they'll have the skulls and all the like stuff in their house. But yet when I say, oh, but have you talked to your husband about your wishes?
[00:10:34] Do you have 'em written down on paper? Oh, I can't do that. I can't do that. There's that disconnect between us actually looking at our own mortality while also being super fascinated with it. When it's not us, there needs to be some kind of a way to fix that because. We need to talk about these things with our spouses.
[00:10:56] Mm-hmm. And with our loved ones and even with our children. I was watching something with my son last night and he's 12, and in this TV show that we were watching a like 19 or 20-year-old boy. Was basically just wasting his life away, playing video games. He didn't leave the house, he didn't have a job, and his older sibling kind of came into the room and was like, ever since mom died, you really have just become, I think he straight up said like a leech on this family.
[00:11:25] And so afterward I said to my son, I was like, look, bud, if God forbid I ever do die, please don't ruin your life. I know you'll be sad and I know that you'll miss me, but don't let that sadness ruin your life so that you don't continue to flourish because it happens so often. Mm-hmm. And he was like, I really hope you don't die soon.
[00:11:48] I said, I hope I don't die soon either. But I don't really have control over that in a lot of ways. Hopefully, I'll be in my nineties when I die. And it was a good conversation, and I think it's important to have those conversations sometimes because I know as a mom, I would be heartbroken, you know, my spirit version of myself.
[00:12:07] If I died and then I watched my children basically ruin their lives moving forward because they were so stuck in grief and they couldn't move on, that would break my heart because that's not what I would want for them. It doesn't mean that if something happens that even that conversation I had with 'em will prevent that from happening, but it's better than not having the conversation.
[00:12:28] Mm-hmm. And so I, I try to have those conversations with my kids.
[00:12:32] Laura: So important. Yeah.
[00:12:34] Jill: Oh, it is. It's so important to have age-appropriate conversations about all types of tough topics like sex and drugs and death, and all the things that we typically as a society avoid talking about with our children, but we avoid it because it's making us uncomfortable.
[00:12:51] Yep. Oftentimes the kids. Don't really feel the same discomfort as we do. We feel uncomfortable, and so we just shut the conversation down, which is unfortunate, and I'm hopeful that people listening to this podcast will be inspired to talk to their children about some of the harder things. I know it can be difficult, but I also know that it's possible, so I hope people will try moving forward.
[00:13:20] Talking about children, so you said when you were a child, your family was Jewish and Christian. Mm-hmm. What was that like, especially in regards to your beliefs or your family's beliefs and the way that they treated death and dying because I know it was a Catholic. The way that I view death and dying as a child was very specific to my family's religion.
[00:13:44] There wasn't much outside of that that influenced it. So how about for you?
[00:13:50] Laura: Yeah, you know, I would say similar, especially as a child. My parents and I don't recall having conversations about death, but more about, I would have conversations with him about the other side. So we'd sort of, sort of skip the part of the transition.
[00:14:08] As a child, I didn't really come. The death of somebody too often. One was my mom's good friend who had passed from leukemia. I do remember we went to her funeral and it was an open casket and it was an interesting experience. I was probably in elementary school and I remember just thinking, oh, like her makeup, her face looks more green than natural.
[00:14:36] I remember thinking that I wasn't weirded out by the body. It wasn't for me emotional because it was my mom's friend and I was so young. It was more like, oh, this is what a dead body looks like. It was more curious, I guess I was just observing more. And then my grandmother passed when I was in high school, and there are a couple of things that are significant about her passing that I think my parents did the right thing about.
[00:15:01] One was I was a teenager, and my sister was probably also in her early teens, and they took us to see her in hospice when she was on the ventilator and totally comatose. And we got to see her in hospice. And I remember some family members telling my parents like, why would you let your kids see her like that?
[00:15:25] But I appreciated that because I feel like they didn't hide it from us. And to me, that was important, especially in retrospect, because at the time I, I never thought like, oh, mom, mom, dad. Like, why are, why are we seeing her? Like, why'd you bring us here? You know? I never ever thought that, in fact, it was like, I get to see grandma again.
[00:15:42] You know? Cause I knew it was. Near the end, it was also the first time I ever saw somebody like that. So there were a lot of things that I was also observing and you know, curious about. But at the same time was my grandmother. So kind of sad as well. I always appreciated that. I never felt that I was too young, or especially now, that's part of life.
[00:16:01] You can't shelter somebody from their dying loved one. You know, every situation's different. Of course, my parents really knew that. My sister and I had the capacity to handle that, and we were able to, of course, it was sad, but I didn't have any sort of trauma from that or anything like that. But it was profound because I was able to see her that way.
[00:16:21] And then I wanna say it was that night that I dreamt about her, and that was the first time that I had a dream visitation from somebody who had passed because it was the next day that we found out she had passed. And so that for me, was very significant in my own personal life. And then going to her funeral was the next time that I encountered death.
[00:16:45] On a personal level, she was my Jewish grandmother. So, in that case, it was a closed casket and it was a very different coffin and it was pretty quick after death cuz it's gotta be within a certain time. They don't embalm the body at all. So that was sort of the next time that I encountered a religious funeral, I suppose at a younger age because I don't recall.
[00:17:09] Going to a funeral or having conversations about death prior to my mom's friend in elementary school. I do feel like it was emotionally appropriate for me to be at those events, at the ages that I was, and my parents understanding that I had the emotional capacity. Understanding that it is a part of life.
[00:17:32] Death is a part of life, and to not shelter us from it too much. And going back to what you said, having sort of those age appropriate conversations, cuz I'm sure we had questions for them and making sure that when we did experience death, whether it was at a funeral or, or having questions that they were age appropriate.
[00:17:52] Because again, I don't remember anything prior to then, and I don't feel any sort of trauma following those incidences at those ages. So I feel that in that sense. Very lucky. Could we have had more conversations? Quite possibly, but I think that maybe it was a generational thing that now it feels much more comfortable.
[00:18:14] Maybe it's an occupational thing, cuz now that I do psychic mediumship, it's just such a common part of conversation. So I think that. Maybe now it at least for my life, become more acceptable to have those discussions and I talk to my children about when our family pet dies. What signs do you think they'll leave?
[00:18:33] I think about maybe yet to have an open conversation with them about, oh, I think if one of us passed, I kind of an idea of what kind of sign they would leave cuz based on their personality and things like that. So it does open up those sorts of conversations. Just being so submerged in this world of connecting with the other side.
[00:18:52] And being that medium for other people. And I wanna comment too, on what you had mentioned about having those discussions with family members beforehand about I don't want you to just sit around and do nothing with your life. If I pass. I think that that sort of helps people to hear it straight from their loved ones.
[00:19:13] Because the medium's gonna go and tell 'em the same thing because the loved one's gonna tell them the same thing on the other side. But it could save a lot of grief. It could save a lot of time if those conversations occur before the person passes, having conversations about, if I do go before you, these are the signs I'm gonna leave you.
[00:19:32] And that way there's no question. And then that way there's also an understanding. Life really does continue on after death, but of course, the grief process is really important to being physical humans. When
[00:19:46] Jill: did you realize that you were a psychic medium? Is that something that happened more recently or was that when you were younger? How did that happen?
[00:19:54] Laura: I wanna say it's been two years now, so early 2020, but in retrospect, I can see how I was already sort of being geared up for it since my grandmother passed and I had that first dream visitation because then other dream visitations from other people who have passed in my life.
[00:20:12] Friends and family occurred since then till now, even as recent as last year, which wasn't that long ago. I can see now in retrospect how I sort of already been a medium, even before I started calling myself one a couple of years ago.
[00:20:29] Jill: What was the most impactful death that you've experienced?
[00:20:33] Laura: Definitely my grandmother's.
[00:20:35] Yeah. Because not only did that start everything, but since her passing. She had visited me multiple times in my dreams and communicated with me a lot in those dreams, communicating with me via signs in physical. And like really delivers. So I feel like her passing and communication with her has been the most significant when you ask me that.
[00:21:04] There are definitely other times too that have been very significant and I think they, they had to be profound like that to sort of jumpstart me into believing that and knowing, not just believing, but knowing that that's what I was doing. I was communicating with the other side. It had to be profound.
[00:21:24] Otherwise I would question it, maybe push it under the rug. But because it was profound, I couldn't deny it. And a lot of it too is getting validation. The first time that I did an energy healing for a friend, husband, I was in that zone cuz it's a very meditative state when you do healing for somebody.
[00:21:43] And I was remote too. It was remote and all of a sudden a woman, Into the healing very unexpectedly cuz I'm sitting there working with energy as this woman came into my third eye, very clairvoyantly and I got some information from her because I wanted to see. Find out who she was, but I didn't wanna spend too much time with her because I was doing a healing.
[00:22:05] So I told her, you're free to stick around to help with the healing, but I can't really dive into anything too much with you right now. And so I was able to then verify with my friend's spouse that. It was indeed his great-aunt who had passed just a few months ago from breast cancer. And that was significant because I was able to tell him what she looked like.
[00:22:25] Cause I saw her and I asked her how she passed, and it was definitely in the chest. So I said, you know, it could be lungs, it could be hard. I don't know, but I know it was in the chest. And so it was significant because she was able to send me a picture. And I said that's her without a doubt. If you would've given me a lineup, like a mugshot lineup, I would've pointed her out cuz I saw her so clearly, and then that's when she was able to confirm those other details. That, for me, was very profound and I was able to get the validation for me. There were definitely multiple profound incidences, but definitely the one with my grandmother has been the most because she has been such a help on this spiritual journey since then, multiple times.
[00:23:09] Jill: Did your beliefs about the afterlife change when you became a medium, or was that something that you already believed that that's what was happening to souls? Because sometimes, I'm not sure what I believe I really. Go all over the spectrum of, yeah. I do feel like the soul goes on after we die. Where it goes to, I don't know.
[00:23:33] Sometimes I think there are some souls that stick around for whatever reason. Other times I am not really sure. I try to just stay open to all of it. Yeah. But I find. I don't know. Sometimes I feel comfort in knowing that. I don't know for sure. Yeah, that actually gives me a sense of comfort that I'm like, I don't really know.
[00:23:53] Laura: And that's actually good. Yeah. Well, I find it as so case by case because I have learned to say that the spirit world is so limitless. Like you can't put any limits. You can't say, only this happens, only that happens. That sense of, I don't know, is really because it could be anything. It's so case-by case.
[00:24:14] I've learned not to put any limits on spirit, and I will say that I have had essentially at this 0.2 spiritual awakenings. The first one occurred when I was in my sort of later teenage years, and I found Sylvia Brown and I started reading her books and she's a psychic medium who introduced me to spirituality.
[00:24:32] She has since passed, but. She's written tons of books and I couldn't put her books down. That's when Spiritual Awakening for me happened. The first time was when I actually got introduced to Spirit Guides, introduced to the idea of what the other side is like, introduced to ascendant Masters and Mother gods, and you know, all these different ideas that f.
[00:24:51] Felt right to me, and that was important because even though I was brought up in a Christian and Jewish household, it wasn't that I was brought up in two different religions. That confused me because even if I were brought up in just one or the other, I would still be unsure of what felt right to me because neither really did I liked.
[00:25:09] The teachings. I liked the tradition of them and the good stuff from both of them, but I couldn't resonate with a lot of the things like if you don't accept Jesus into your heart, you're going to hell. You can't accept stuff like that. And that part was really difficult for me. It was significant that I found spirituality and that it resonated in my soul so deeply that that.
[00:25:35] My way. That's what I knew to be true, and that's what I know to be true. And so then spiritual awakening number two happened and I went into it already with this idea and understanding of what the other side was like. Oh, I had already met my spirit guide at that point. So I already went in with this understanding and perhaps this openness of what I believe the other side to be what I know the other side to.
[00:26:02] Jill: How about grief? You briefly touched on mm-hmm. Grief and your experience and what people said to you that was helpful. But grief is very individual. Mm-hmm. And I've also found in my own life as well as just with people that I've talked to. That we have a lot of grief for things that aren't necessarily the death of a loved one.
[00:26:27] We just don't realize that that's what it is. We don't process it. We don't allow ourselves to properly feel grief when we end a job or a friendship or anything else. That's still an ending that makes us feel grief. Mm-hmm. So how about for you? How do you find you work with grief in your own?
[00:26:48] Laura: That is a great question.
[00:26:49] Cause I think the misconception for psychic mediums is that we have such a strong connection to the other side that grief must look different. But I. I was surprised because I thought the same thing until the passing of our family Pet buddy and I actually share about this in one of my episodes, processing grief or processing anxiety when spiritually awakened.
[00:27:17] I actually did an episode on this because it became so significant in my life. I had already called myself a psychic medium. When I wanna say about a year later, our Beloved Yellow Lab Family Pet Buddy passed away. And that was really hard. Really hard. And the reason why it was so hard, I'll give a little bit of background, buddy came into my life when I was working on.
[00:27:47] Exiting a pretty toxic relationship, one that I had been in far too long than I needed to be. Ignoring the red flags and everything like that, it was, it was very, very unhealthy for both of us, but it was also really hard to leave for, for whatever its reasons, and so Buddy entered my life at that time and he helped me get through that.
[00:28:09] He helped me to leave it, he helped me to heal from it. He has helped me. So many ways. He had been there for all the big life events, the marriage to my husband, the buying of our first house, bringing both children home from the hospital for the first time. He'd been there for so many things and symbolized for me hope and strength and comfort.
[00:28:31] He was my dog at first, and then my husband and I met, and so I brought him into a relationship. So he and I had this special bond that we were able to create and strengthen from the beginning. And so when he passed, I felt like a lot of what he represented was gone, even though I knew that he was still here just in a different form, but it still felt so finite and I knew it wasn't gonna be the same, like he wasn't gonna be there physically and all of a sudden him just being there with me in spirit wasn't enough.
[00:29:08] It wasn't enough. I wanted to feel him. I wanted to smell him. I wanted to see him, you know, I wanted to hear him. There were so many things that him just being a soul wasn't enough. So I, you know, I thought I grieved him. I guess, you know, when you go through the steps of grief, you don't really say, okay. I went through the sadness.
[00:29:32] Okay, check. I went through the anger check, I went through the denial, like you don't, it's not neatly formatted like that. And so I don't know what I was expecting. I feel like, you know, I cried. I cried for him and I knew where he was and I knew he was still there. There were so many things that I had already understood with my brain, but it was having to understand it with my.
[00:29:58] And that has taken a long time. And I think what happened was I felt that okay, you know, I cried and I know where he is. I understand, you know, I'm waiting for the signs, but I know he's there. And I think because of that, unknowingly, I didn't allow myself to complete the grieving process. And the reason why I say that is because what happened was I started getting an anxiety attack.
[00:30:26] And I never had those before, ever. Never had those before. And finally, I had a big one, a big one where I was like, no position was comfortable. I was home alone. I was panicking. My heart was racing. I felt nauseous. I felt like I was gonna pass out. I mean, somebody probably would've thought they were having a heart attack, but I knew based on the other symptoms, and having had this before, that this was just a really big panic attack.
[00:30:51] And it prompted me enough, to make that episode and share about it and be vulnerable because again, that misconception of you being so connected to the other side, how are you still having anxiety or how have you not grieved? I just had these assumptions, but I, realized that the human really takes over, especially with emotions the human really takes over.
[00:31:15] And our second lab passed early, like mid last. And for some reason that one felt easier and maybe because I knew Buddy was on the other side and they were together again, there were lots of things about that passing that felt better. And I think it's just because of the timing that Buddy came into my life.
[00:31:36] There was a lot more that I had been going through when he came in and helped me through and, and then Cody, our second lab, was there to, I mean, gosh, he just, he. Just amazing in so many ways and such a blessing to our lives too. But for some reason that was different. So I grieve differently. So like you said, every person grieves differently and then every person grieves differently with every different death.
[00:31:59] So that one just felt easier. But I feel like when you're human and emotions just become so strong, it's you have to allow yourself to go through that as best you can. And then if you don't, Your body will remind you like it did for me.
[00:32:18] Jill: That's what I was just gonna ask actually, if you think that the panic attack itself was your body's way of saying to you, you are not processing, your brain is processing, but as you said, your heart wasn't and you were not allowing the feelings to be fully felt.
[00:32:38] Mm-hmm. And not allowing them to flow through your body. And so that almost like that holding on. To try to keep it all in. Mm-hmm. For whatever reason we do that,, we all do it with our feelings that we don't wanna face, but holding it in was actually what made your body have that panic because eventually, we can't hold it.
[00:33:01] We just can't. It's gonna come out whether we want it to or not. Yeah. And the stages of grief. The interesting thing is, is they weren't even designed to be stages of grief. They got converted into what people see as stages of grief. Mm-hmm. It was more than originally when you got diagnosed with a terminal illness, you had to go through those stages, uhhuh, and then somebody kind of took them and was like, oh, when you're grieving you have to go through similar stages.
[00:33:30] But nothing in life really ever follows stages the way that we think they're going to. Yeah. Yes, you can expect to feel the anger and the denial and all these different things, but you might not feel them in any particular order. You might feel them over and over and over again, especially if you don't allow yourself to fully feel them.
[00:33:49] Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, our need for control. Our need to want to make things fit into little boxes is what makes us. Hold it all in. Especially, I'm glad you mentioned that you grieved so much over a dog because I find so much shame when people are grieving pets because they feel like, but it was just a pet, and other people even view it that way.
[00:34:18] You know, you'll see the eye rolls and the judgey tones of voices like, well, it was just a dog. But anybody that's ever owned an animal will tell you. Often our pets are closer to us than other humans. Yeah. And I know when my cat died, similar in that it, this cat, we got it in California. It had originally come from Las Vegas with this older woman.
[00:34:46] And then she fell and she hurt herself and so couldn't take care of the cat. And I went to the sun and then the sun couldn't take care of it. And we found it on Craigslist. And as soon as I saw the picture of this cat. I was like that. That's our cat. We have to go see it. And we went and we visited her and we said to the guy, all right, we'll come back tomorrow and we'll get her.
[00:35:06] We just have to go and like buy a litter box and like all this other stuff. And as soon as we got to the store and we bought all this stuff, I said to my husband, but my boyfriend at the time, I said, you know, can we just go pick the cat up now? And so we called him and we were like, can we get the cat nail?
[00:35:19] And he was like, please come get this cat. It sat by the door and cried since you left. And I was like, all right, she's mine. I'm just getting chills. Oh my gosh. She. A soulmate for me. I mean, I know that she was, and we had her in California and then we moved her to New Jersey and she was there for the birth of both of my children.
[00:35:41] I mean, this cat, I think she was like 21 when she finally died. Wow. I knew that she was sick and my husband kept saying to me like, it, it might be time. And I was like, when it's time, I'll know it's time. And that was partially me just not being able to let go because I knew once I let go, as you said, I know she's still here, but she's not here.
[00:36:02] I can't pet her. I can't cuddle with her. I can't do all the things that we do in the physical form. Yeah. So even though, yes, I know her spirit is still here. I miss the other parts of her. Yeah. Yep. And we had this really beautiful experience where the vets came to the house. Mm-hmm. And I was able to hold her, and then my husband dug a hole and lined it with flowers.
[00:36:25] I mean, it, it was beautiful. But I do, I still really miss her and Yeah, that's okay. I think. Really unfortunate that we put this pressure on ourselves to just move on. Yeah. From things like that when I will probably miss her until the day that I die, which sounds silly for even me to say that out loud, that it was just a cat.
[00:36:50] But she wasn't just a cat. She was definitely not just a cat. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:36:55] Laura: But she'll be the first to greet you when you when you do crossover.
[00:37:00] Jill: Oh, I would not be surprised. It's interesting for me, my grieving, I almost feel like I don't grieve properly. Mm-hmm. Because I don't feel grief the way that I see other people feeling it.
[00:37:14] I see. Yeah. Even when my grandmother died, I. In my brain, I should be more upset than I am. And I felt in my brain that I should miss her more than I do. And I don't know if it's because I still feel a connection. Part of me doesn't feel like she's gone, even though it's been 11 years since she died.
[00:37:39] Wow. Part of me feels. It just feels her and not, I don't think in the way that a medium would feel her. It's not like I'm like, oh, I know she's with me in this room, even though she might be. I don't know, but I just, I don't, I never felt that type of grief that I've observed from other people, and so then I judge myself for that, that I don't grieve the way that I should, but I also don't feel like I am holding the grief the way that I've talked to people into not holding.
[00:38:10] Because I try to be very aware and I sit with it and I think about it, and I have a little altar right across the computer here, essentially to my grandmother with her picture. And actually, I am wearing her favorite necklace. I wear it almost every day. That's awesome. So I don't think that I'm avoiding the grief, I just don't feel the grief the way that other people do, and I think that's okay.
[00:38:33] Yeah. I just need to give myself permission even. And everybody listening. I am giving you permission to feel your grief the way that you feel it. And every person's gonna be different. Of course, if my husband dies, maybe I will be overwhelmed by grief. I don't know if, God forbid, one of my children die, I don't know how I would go on.
[00:38:54] So I, I grieve in my own way and we all do. And that's okay.
[00:39:00] Laura: Yeah. And in your own way, with every death, I was the same way. Actually, it's funny that you mentioned that when my grandmother passed away, I didn't cry, but I saw everyone else around me crying and I was like, trying to make myself cry because I was like, I should be sad, like more sad like them.
[00:39:21] But for me, I think I just processed it differently. So I can relate to what you said. Absolutely.
[00:39:27] Jill: When my grandmother died, I cried, but I don't think I cried because of grief in the traditional sense. The last couple of weeks of her life were very hard on me. She was not herself. There were just a lot of times when she was angry and not nice and just not herself and I wanted to forget it.
[00:39:50] I just wanted, yeah, to remember her the way that she was when I was growing up, which was loving and kind to everybody and just warm and welcoming and an amazing human. And I don't just say that because she's my grandmother. Anybody that knew her will honestly tell you the same thing. And I wanted to forget that part of her.
[00:40:11] And I was so afraid that the last couple of weeks that I had with her were gonna be what I remembered of her. Hmm. And I didn't want that. And I think I was just overwhelmed by all the emotions at that point. Sure. And so I definitely cried, but only really, I think once or twice, like I kept thinking to myself like everybody else, they sob and they sob and they sob and I wasn't doing that.
[00:40:37] Yeah. And, then I went to her funeral and I wanted to take pictures of her. She was Catholic, so it was like the open casket. And we had a florist that we knew locally do all the flowers. Mm-hmm. And we brought her old pots and pans and her rolling pins. They were florists that we knew cuz when we had our bakery and we worked with 'em all the time.
[00:40:57] Oh yeah. And so when I called and I talked to Mary and I said, Mary, this is what I want. Can we use all of this stuff from her kitchen? I don't want the normal stuff that you see at funerals, and she was like, awesome. We'll do it. They did an amazing job. It was perfect and I wanted to take pictures of it.
[00:41:14] And I was taking pictures and even the funeral director walks out and he looks at me and he kind of goes, I always knew you were weird. And I was like, well, what is, what does that mean?
[00:41:23] Laura: My jaw just dropped. Really?
[00:41:27] Jill: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know, small towns like we all knew each other.
[00:41:33] Laura: Oh good. You set the bar, Jill. Good for you.
[00:41:36] Jill: Totally. And I was like, you're right. I am kind of weird and that's fine. But now I love having those pictures. They mean a lot to me. That was part of my grieving process, I knew that I wouldn't really remember what it looked like because at that time it was just everything was going on and I had a six-month-old baby and it was just a lot.
[00:41:57] Oh yeah, yeah. But I wanted to have that remembrance and the pictures, so I took the pictures. So for all of you, again, out there listening, if you wanna take pictures, take the damn pictures. Don't feel weird about it. Don't feel like people are gonna judge you. Maybe don't post 'em on your Instagram.
[00:42:14] That might be a little bit much for people. But in the long run, do what you feel like you need to do. If you feel in your heart that this thing will make you feel better, then do it. It'll be. Is there anything else that you want to talk about before we close it up?
[00:42:35] Laura: Well, what I think is what's so cool is, so my podcast called A Guided Life, it's to share how the other side is so connected with us here on this side. I kind of talk about what happens after the transition and Jill's podcast talks about what happens during the transition. So I love it.
[00:42:51] Jill: Awesome. Well thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate you taking the time.
[00:42:58] Thank you for listening to this episode of Seeing Death Clearly. My guest next week is Dr. Jessica Metcalfe. She's a general dentist by trade but ended up specializing in working with cancer patients at one of the top five cancer centers in the world. She also teaches the medical and dental community how to help patients improve their quality of life post-cancer therapy.
[00:43:16] We talk about her work with patients and so much more. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend or family member that may find it helpful. This really helps to get the podcast out to more people. If you could leave me a five-star review on your favorite platform. It tells the platform that this is a podcast worth recommending to others. Somebody did mention to me they would leave me a review, but they were unsure how So if you'd like some help leaving a review, send me an email. I'll help you out. I'll see you next week for the next episode of Seeing Death Clearly.