The views information or opinions expressed during the Seeds of Wellbeing series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, our funders, and any affiliated organizations involved in this project. Welcome to a Seeds of Wellbeing "Voices from the field" podcast, featuring voices of Hawaii agriculture producers, for Hawaii agriculture producers.
These podcasts are made possible by a grant from the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, also known as CTAHR. And the Seeds of Wellbeing or SOW project and is supported by a grant from the US Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, and the Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
Well, I think the way a lot of people are you know show their stress or get feedback that from others that they seem stressed is when you know, it comes out and getting short and impatient and hard to get along with, you know, people will snap at their loved ones and, you know, have a short fuse or, you know, have an irritable
presentation. I think for a lot of men in particular that that's their go to emotion that covers all of the other emotions of sadness or vulnerability or fear is the more you know, aggressive, irritable, angry, quick to flare. And so that can certainly have some effect on the relationships of our agricultural workers. But I think that's the feedback that you know, is given off by the partner.
In this episode, we speak with Dr. Lew Abrams, clinical psychologist and farmer on the island of Maui. We talk about his struggles as a farmer, but also about what he sees in his work with ag producers, and their mental health, as well as way of dealing with stress. Now, let's hear more from Dr. Abrams.
Thank you. Yes, I'm glad to be invited to offer some perspective because I walk in both worlds as a clinical psychologist doing therapy and counseling with all kinds of people, including some farmers, and being a farmer myself. So I understand the many demands involved with that.
Oh, thank you. So you highlighted a bit of what I was going to ask you can you just share with the with our listeners, your experiences, how long have you been in the ag industry and your experiences being a therapist as well?
Okay, yeah, we moved to Maui in 1997 with our two young boys five and ten year old kids and, and bought a two acre parcel in ag zoned land, you know, region that was mainly kind of guavas and wild little bit jungley in the rainy side of Haiku. And so from the beginning, I got a job and was working as a psychologist at the Molokini unit at the hospital and some other family therapy I was doing from other agencies, as I was developing, starting a
private practice. But then we wanted to build out, our plant out, that two acre parcel with everybody has the fantasy of tropical fruit and bananas and greens. And so that was a process we actually built a pond also, in order to have some tilapia and an aquaculture system going. So it was a small scale experiment with planting fruit trees and learning about permaculture design and doing
some aquaculture. That was until we moved 10 years later to our current 25 acre property, a little bit closer to the ocean in Haiku. And then we've developed Ahimsa Sanctuary Farm. And I've become an organically certified farm there and so we're working here to develop that land as well.
So are you in production you actually sell at the
Some times we do, it depends on the season like we're markets. you know, when we have a harvest of turmeric we use it in different ways. Weʻre doing our best to make it into value added products and working with it right on the farm. We've done some distilation of turmeric into hydrosol and essential oil. We've done some slicing and drying it selling it with medicinal ingredients to a docter in the Bay Area, we tried
a variety of ways. When we just harvest our Brazilians, dwarf apple bananas and cut them down and break ʻem, cut ʻem into hands and wash ʻem and let ʻem drip dry, and then box ʻem and bring him to the health food store to Mana Foods. The economics of it really don't work out very well. The amount of time and energy that it takes to even just to bring it to the store barely covers the the income that comes from per pound selling the bananas.
So you're you're reflecting on a bit of the stressors of finances, and the input in the output that would make farming, might be a bit stressful for some of our ag producers. And in your experience as a therapist, have you come across this as a stressor or an other stressors that you've noticed?
Oh, yeah, I would say that, in general, being overwhelmed by Yeah, you reflecting on the labor by having good labor by multitasking. And, and having to discern what makes sense to put one's energy into on in any particular moment on any particular day, I think is a background stress for people in general. But certainly with farming, there's so many
competing. Today, you know, we were there to you know, feed the plants, or start new seeds, or tackle the cane grass or, you know, you can get pulled in so many directions. And it is hard to think about what really is going to pay off or be most important to work on today or in this moment, requires some some leadership as well. Because even if you have a few people or a team ready to help you on your farm, you have to figure out what you want them to do, and
guide them in that. And that in itself is kind of takes up energy communicating with the people and explaining, you know. I mean recently I had a situation where I had some volunteers came in to help me weed an area around our turmeric and we had recently transplanted in a whole row of galangal ginger and and then you know, I wasn't really watching close to them and our volunteer weeder basically took out, pulled out, that precious crop we had just
planted. So even supervising oneʻs helpers on the farm is an art and requires some skills support that has come up in our survey, at least as one of the stressors, the main stressors and access to good labor. Well, part of it on Maui, with the cost of housing being so high, and whatever profit margin we aspire to on the farm, you know, it's hard to figure out how to make the economics of the
labor work as well. I think that's why many farms have work traders or WWOOFers that you know, do some volunteer work in return for a place to stay. And that brings with it its own, you know, challenges as well.
So thank you. So I'd like to switch over to a little bit about what you've come across in terms of how does stress manifest among our ag producers in Hawaii? What have you noticed as a therapist that you come across when somebody comes to your office and maybe they don't even say theyʻre strssed but you've seen this as common signs of stress among ag producers, Can you reflect on that?
You know, when I'm just thinking about the group that shows up at the Hawaii Farmers Union meeting, you know pre-COVID. We had a really thriving and I'm sure we will retrieve it now as thriving community of farmers and supporters of farming, you know, that would come to our Hawaii Farmers Union United meetings in the various parts of the island, Haiku was the one that I have attended. By and large I think that farming is great counter to
the stressors of life. The people that were coming were really you know, in love with the ʻaina, enjoying what they were doing and glad to share you know the abundance of their harvest and you know, had a sense of you know, connectedness and meaning that I think is a buffer against the you know stressors and actually is a really good mental health, you know, considering, but again, the reality of actually trying to make a farm, that be a commercial farm that's in the
black, it becomes more of a, you know, a financial pressure that I, you know, I know many farmers and Maui are not really able to run in the black very well. And it can be a huge sucking sound, you know, once you start to invest yourself in the land, there's so many inputs and labor costs and machinery like, you know, to fight the cane grass you need functioning weed eaters that keep breaking down and the mowers get flat tires, the blades needs, you know, trimming, there's just a lot of
So how do you see that manifested in the way they talk, you know, the facial dispositions or mannerisms?
People are pretty good at, you know, letting you know that about their frustrations and stressors that they're they're undergoing. And, you know, the the wolf at the door, you know, well, maybe we can make it through this month that we don't make it into the black, but this sort of impending, you know, doom over time. You gotta find a way to make it work, or else you have to go out of business.
Yeah, it's basically insane to keep doing something where you're losing money, even if your heart is in it, and you love it. At some point, you know, you got to find a business model that works or it's hard to make it. The sustainable farm isn't that sustainable if the economics of it aren't also in place. So I think that's a background stress for, you know,
for farmers. And you know, it's just unpredictability is that, you know, that you even when you put someone's energy into finding the right seed, but of course you're preparing the soil first, and innoculating with micro organisms and all the good amendments and composting. Carefully, tending the seed and watering it, and then weeding it and feeding it other amendments
and having all those steps. It's so easy along the way for you know, to blink, and, you know, the string beans are beyond the time to harvest, and now they're just tough or not. Or, you know, the white cabbage moths will come in and chow this beautiful field of kale that was looking
so good yesterday. There's these unpredictable elements all the way to getting it to harvest you know, I've had boxes of produce go bad in the back of my car as I drove around to the different, you know, health food stores and markets and trying to see who you know, wanted, you know, that like, for example, starfruit. It's so abundant when it's in season, that theyʻre really, you know, the supply and demand is such that it's very difficult to figure out what to do with it, and
So, Dr. Abrans, you're still caring a lot about the stressors. I appreciate that. But I'm still trying to get you out to discuss, like, how does it look like on someone who was really stressed, so that it can be helpful to a family member surviving it? And then how and what are some of the coping styles that are helpful and not helpful?
Okay. Well, I think the way a lot of people are show their stress or get feedback from others that they seem stressed is when it comes out and getting short and impatient and hard to get along with. You know, people will snap at their loved ones and, you know, have a short fuse or, you know, have an irritable
presentation. I think for a lot of men in particular that that's their go-to emotion that covers all of the other emotions of sadness or vulnerability or fear is the more you know, aggressive, irritable, angry, quick to flare. And so that can certainly have some effect on the relationships of our agricultural workers, but I think that's the feedback that you know, is given off by the partners like wow, you're, you've been really aggro and hard to get along with lately.
So what would you, for that, if you're seeing sort of their irritation and the irritability, quick to anger and say something unkind? What would be the antidote to that? What would you advise for someone who's struggling with this away?
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of ways in, but I guess the first step is to break through one's denial about it and own that yeah, "I have been grouchy lately." I think for the first stance for most people is to you know when their partner, you know, will give feedback like that would be to just dismiss it, and you know, and you will blame the other person for it. So, once you can come to terms with seeing accurately in the mirror that it is an issue, that's sort of the first step.
And then yeah, the, I feel like adopting a daily practice of centering, whatever that may be for the person, is probably the best preventive self care strategy, you know. To the degree that we're jumping from one thing to another, get up early, just have the endless list open one thing to another to another, and it's all what you know, you have to do to
reach some external goals. That leads to some kind of cumulative stress, and so the antidote that I think most people have accessible to them is to schedule in some kind of time each day, to fill their cup. To nurture oneself, whatever that may look like to you. For a lot of people that I know, it's dawn patrol surfing, you know. For so many people just to, you know, give themselves that break. To jump in the water and, you know, be under the dome of the sky.
And you know, so many people I asked about their spiritual journey, kind of spiritual belief system you have that helps you cope, and many people love Jesus. A lot of people go to church out on the waves, and you know, the elements and build their strength and come back to themselves, you know, while they're waiting for that next wave. So I think it's something that we can ask ourselves is "What can I do for myself that I love, that is something that helps me settle down and return to my center?
Thank you. Yeah. So you reflected on something that was really important, because I know many, and I don't want in front of generalizations, but one of the common stereotype is that ag producers and farmers are tough, right? Like, "I'm just gonna do it no matter what." The sense of I'm just going to persist and continue sort of that will. And you mentioned the recognition that you realize that you're getting short with somebody or irritable, and you don't want to see that why you don't want to
acknowledge that. So how do you motivate that ability for someone to just do that self reflection to say, "Wait a minute, I am stressed. And maybe I need to take that moment to find my center." Because there's a point where that motivation to the stages of change, as we call it, right, the first stage is to recognize there's something going on. But there's also sort of the the mind state that you know what, I'm just going to persist, you know, I just gotta
keep doing it. And you don't have that time to like, reflect or to step back and see, "Wait a minute, am I being skillful in my relationships right now?" So that's a big challenge, right? For many folks to be have that time for self reflection. "What are you talking about, I donʻt have time! Iʻve got chickens to feed and things out there to do?"
Yeah, well, so much of it comes down to tone, in terms of motivating a team or getting along with one's partner. So I think, you know, I encourage people to watch their tone and see how you know what kind of results it gets when you talk to someone sharply and kind of in a way that shames or criticizes them, or puts them down or points out how they screwed up. And you can see how that registers on that person's face.
And then a more cordial and warm Yeah, human tone, you know, vulnerable tone, understanding tone, you can see how that lands and how that tends to be a more, you know, land on fertile ground where a person can receive the feedbacks. And you know, as we were talking about working with a team on the farm, the morale is really important. If you have you know, it feels unfair or you know, if you have one complainer they can kind of, you know, take everybody's motivation down a
notch. And then the other part is the opposite is true to. Yeah, like a can-do person that psyched about it and has some good energy, they can motivate everybody else to work better and enjoy it more as well. And so, that's been something that I've been working on is how to give feedback to someone's in such a way that it motivates them to want to work harder or better or do a better job at something because a lot of the feedback tends to be like, "Oh,
this needs to be done." or "You forgot to do that!" or, you know, this, "You screwed up here!" and that kind of can deflate people's motivation. Itʻs just the nature of being you know, on a farm. There's an endless list. You never get to the end of the list.
So it sounds like maybe. So it sounds like for everything that hasn't gotten done, you sort of highlight what has been done to sort of see the positive before you say, but we need to do this too, rather than but right, we always have
I think itʻs really important to pause and take part in satisfaction at whatever piece of work you did accomplish on this day, or in this morning, that we all, you know, gain banged and attacked the, you know, trimming up of an area around the pond or whatever, you know, it's nice to have a defined project that you can actually see your headway on, you know, because there's so many unfinished things in farming that you're, you know, you got to keep going back to it. So,
So it sounds like maybe each day, you sort of set your goal for small, doable, achievable, goals, rather than seeing like, "Oh, my, there's so much that needs to be done!" but sort of cut it down, chunk it down, and sort of, let's celebrate these small projects that we do each day. So then we don't have to criticize and look at like, all the stuff that hasn't been done. Is that what you're trying to say?
I think that is important to really take pause and acknowledge and celebrate what you do. And I try to instill a sense of aesthetics and taking satisfaction and making it beautiful. And you know, it's oftentimes those last little touches of look, turning and looking back and seeing like, oh, yeah, there's a rake lying there that needs to go be put
back in the tool shed. And you know, just to have that sense of, you know, observing, and putting the finishing touches on something that, you know, I try to instill that work ethic and satisfaction in a job well done in some of the younger people that come, and you know, have worked on our farms.
Oh, very nice. I would like now to ask you about some questions related to family because you know, relationships and in Hawaii, ohana is very important. And sometimes as the primary ag producers, you're, you're out there working, you don't have maybe not enough time that you spend with your family. And then family members can also feel vicarious stress of the primary ag. Or, you know, family members could also be working on the farm as well and that could be sources of conflict of
expectation. So any words of wisdom, so from your own experiences, working with ag producers and providing mental health supports that you could share?
Well, one thing that comes to mind is, you know, in the family farm, oftentimes, there's maybe one or two siblings that are into it and want to carry on the family tradition. And there may be other, you know, kids in the family, that this is not their calling. It's not their interest, and it's not what they want to put their energy into.
And so I think it's important to, you know, be clear about that, just, you know, and enlisting someone into the family farm, and it's not where their heart is, is going to be suffering, right. But then there's some equity, you know, how do you keep it fair, More than one sibling is into carrying on the family business and puts in all these hours and works and the other one is off traveling or doing whatever they
want. I you know, when it comes time for the wealth generated to be shared, you know, that can be an issue. So being something that just communicates clearly about
So, what you're highlighting, it may be a common issue, not so uncommon. So how do you, how would a family navigate through that, then that sense of unfairness or "You're doing everything and I'm not doing anything, you're lazy bum!" and I'm like, you know, so perception
That actually is a dynamic that often happens when the
Right. Okay, so maybe I should ask you, you know, let's say parents get older, and it's like one of the siblings that lives near the parent takes on a lot of the caregiving and taking the person to doctor's appointments, and then the other kid that might live a little further away, or maybe just be less ready to step up, kind of, you know, doesn't pull their weight at some level in that, you know, thing and so how to, how to make that more fair is an open question. I don't have a magic
answer to that. I think each family would need to speak about it and at least put it on the table. I've seen it get worked out in in different ways, you know. And if there's some, you know, financial affluence Iʻve seen it kind of help if there is one person that's shouldering more of the burden, you know, if they get paid by the hour, or get paid for their efforts, it can be it can help, you know, feeling more equitable.
resentment might be an emotion that could be understandable if somebody's carrying more weight. How would you advise dealing with resentment then? Yeah, you can read my book on that topic. How to deal with resentment? Okay, I would say the most straightforward way that's going to cut at the root of resentment is to look at our own expectations, and come to some place where we can alter them and accept the situation in general and accept others as
they are. I think a lot of resentment comes when we have this unmet expectation, unvoiced or sometimes voiced, and we don't get what we want from that person. And I think ultimately, it is very difficult to change
others. And so where our power lies is, is adjusting our own expectations of others, and having more of a magnanimous compassionate heart of accepting them as they are, you know, and oftentimes, we even though, we may perceive the behavior of others as hurtful, you know, and it does hurt, and we might want to hurt back, you know, the primitive instinct, you know, I think it is helpful to recognize that when people are doing unconscious things that hurt us, it's often a reflection of their
own wounds. Right? And so it's kind of like, hurt people hurt people. And so if we didn't have the heart of compassion, and shine a light, you know, I'm not personally and understand they're coming from, how they were treated as a kid by their dad, or whatever it might be, you have some insight, but I think we still need to have boundaries, and, you know, a certain standard with which we're willing to be treated.
And, you know, we're I'm not advocating that we should become victims of abusive people, I think we have to assert our own needs as well.
So it sounds like you're talking to a lot of ways of sharing about a balance, right? It's kind of like the goal and balance, right? How much to put effort, how much not to put effort. When to be soft, but yet when to be tough, right? We're constantly navigating through these sorts of balances in our lives. When to rest, when not to
And we never arrive at balance. We're constantly approaching balance and adjusting, right? They say the jet that flies from New York to LA is off course something like 85% of the time. But you know, the automatic pilot is always correcting and bringing it back towards, towards its goal, and so it make it to LA. So I think we can be, we need to be patient with ourselves that you know, at times when our life isn't in
perfect balance. And when we awaken to that and we realize we're all stressed out and aggro, that it's time to take a breath and go jump in the ocean or do your art or pick up your guitar or trade massages. Whatever you know how to do to de-stress and come back home to your yourself you know. Then we start again.
Yeah, that sounds like we all need to have a compass of sort, when we go off track, we will remember to go back. And so what are some of the compasses that people use to know that when you're going off track?
Yeah, a lot of it is just our physical body gives us all kinds of cues right? You know, we have a weird feeling in your stomach when some kind of interaction just felt yucky. Or you know, you're feeling this you know, shallower breathing and tension around your heart.
You're aware that maybe you're a little anxious or worrying about something that might be happening to, you know, later in the day and and it remind you to take a breath and make a sigh and really exhale and letting go and not not just be breathing out at the top of our lungs and an anxious sort of hyperventilating layer but more like a sleeping baby. You see they have long slow inhalations and exhalations. And so you know that link between our breathing pattern in our mind and emotions
is well established. So if we can just remind ourselves to breathe and let the lower part of our lungs fill all the way, let the belly be soft. When we breathe in, it's not time to worry about having a six pack. You let the diaphragm pull down and fill the lower part of your lungs and that when we breathe out, you want to let all of the spent air out so that when you naturally bring in the next breath, you've got a full lung of oxygenated air, you know.
That can be an important response to these physical cues that, you know, if we, if we listen to our body, it will, will tell us. I mean, everyone knows that sense of having a gut feeling about something. And I recommend honoring that. And the times when I have overridden that kind of intuition, because my rational mind explained away that fear, generally hasn't worked out so good.
Yeah, but you know, the breath is really important. And I can even among our listeners, well some of them might say, "Oh, that sounds so hippy dippy." like, "I know how to breathe. I donʻt need to focus on the breath. I just need to go and continue working more harder, right? I'm just gonna put my mind to it and just get at it. It's not the breath. It's the will I gotta just keep at it."
And I think can do that, sure, but some of those same people will really understand the breath when they're hit by a panic attack. I mean, it, it really grabs your attention. A lot of them end up in the ER thinking they're having a heart attack.
Oh, so how do you? Yeah, that's really good. So what's the difference between a panic attack and a heart attack? How would you know the difference?
Oh, I mean, there's different physiological signs, but when you're with with panic, there's this sense of not being able to catch ones breath or feeling out of control. Oftentimes, theres palpitations in the chest you know, and so these are, you know, acute anxiety sometimes causes people to go to the hospital thinking they're having a trouble trouble with their heart.
And is the mind really racing really fast as you're having this panic attack?
Yes. Freud, describe that state as dread, Dread, you know. Where youʻre thinking about all the bad things that might happen or could be happening, you know. Worrying about these things that haven't quite unfolded yet, you know. It can take a toll on on, you know, the physiology and, you know, people get stress related illnesses, ulcers, and
things as well. And being a farmer, you don't really know what you're gonna end up with until you actually get to harvest, you know, and then bring it to market, There's a lot of anticipation and time that you have to put in that doesn't necessarily guarantee you're going to end up with the
hope for return. In fact, you know, a lot of the times you've dealt with, because there's always so many intervening factors where the weather or the pests or the market changes, it's really hard to discern, I think some people have it figured out better than others, where they specialize in some niche and have found their way.
So it sounds like for our ag producer, the resiliency has to be the ability to deal, to manage uncertainty. Provides that strong sense of resiliency, because you're what you're saying, and there's just so many factors and uncertainty. And that it's just but that's kind of why, right? Itʻs uncertainty is how part of life, but for ag producers itʻs right there all
the time. So it sounds like the resiliency in part comes from this ability to navigate through these uncertainty all the time, and letting go the expectations that "Yeah, this year, I'm gonna have a great harvest and you're gonna have lots of light, I'll be in the black."
Well, I think one place to begin with that is to just make sure that you're able to eat from your own garden and enjoy, you know, harvesting that perfect papaya and sharing it with your family at the breakfast table. And maybe okay, you didnʻt get as many boxes of papaya to the market as you
would like. But at least in terms of savoring the quality of life that comes from cultivating the ʻaina and using natural, organic ingredients, you know that this is a healthy thing that you're putting in your body or sharing with your children. That in itself is is a satisfaction that many people never experience that are living in, you know, apartment in the city on the mainland, you know.
It's really a special human experience to plant the seed and cultivate it and be able to go and pinch off that piece of basil, put in your mouth so fresh, and you know, it's life, the life force itself is very apparent in this, you know, process of, you know, agriculture. So I just invite us all you farmers not to lose sight of those, that simple wonder, and the enjoyment of you know, harvesting something from
your own land. So fresh and, you know, and that it not being something that is about money. It's, it's something that is sort of deeper than, than money.
Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Abrams, I'm gonna allow you to share a little bit about your services that you provide. The Seats of Wellbeing is helping networking and providing resources to our equity. Yeah. So can you elaborate
Sure. Well, since COVID began, I have been shifting my practice to an online practice where I use a platform similar to this where there's audio and visual and you can see each other. I use doxie.me, d.o.x.y.me, which is a confidential platform that works really well you don't have to download an app even you just go there and sign in. And I find you in the virtual waiting room.
And so I'm a licensed clinical psychologist, which means that I've focused on and my training was on counseling and psychotherapy, and working with people in depth from different perspectives. And I was trained as a family therapist. So I think in terms of systems and the interactions between people, as not so much as identifying the problem inside one person's head, you know, although, you know, I work with individuals and couples and families and sometimes parents and kids, you
know, I have two. We've raised two sons that are now 28 and 33. So going through all the developmental stages with them and seeing them you know, become healthy, happy young man is a, been a very satisfying. They just released their record yesterday, the 2, 2, 2022, they put out. Their brand is called Wolfchild, and so check that out and you'll be inspired.
So how will folks be able to reach you, what is your website or?
Yeah, I am. I have a website. It's a little bit of a mouthful. It's my name Lu Abrams with and it's l.e.w. Lew Abrams without an H, ABRAMS, PhD psychologist.com. So that's yeah, that's my website. But if you want to send me an email, abramsphd@me.com is the simplest email to reach me.
And Dr. Abrams is also on our resource hub, so you can find him under the Mental Health Resource area that we have included. So thank you, Dr. Abrams, for sharing your manao, and all that you do to support our ag producers in Hawaii. We would like to thank Dr. Abrams for sharing his insight as both a psychologist and a farmer. In our interviews with Hawaii ag producers, his perspective and empathy is something that many producers have said they would like to have in a mental health
provider. Please listen to some music from his sonsʻ band, Wolfchild, as we hear some final words. Any last words that you would like to end with?
Ah, yeah, I just want to thank all the farmers that are doing this malama ʻaina work in this world. It's so vital and so needed and often sort of underappreciated. So I just want to honor you know, that that simple work. You know, they say it's the farmers shadow, that's the most important ingredient in the garden, and you know, that sense of just increment and put time in and watching, observing and, you know, doing our, you know, inputs. It's such a honorable work, I just want to
say thank you. And I encourage you to enjoy your own work by really celebrating when you get that juicy piece of fruit in your mouth to give thanks and be in gratitude for this gift of life that bubbles up through this natural living planet. And we get to ingest it through this healthy food. It's a beautiful miracle that we're all participating in.
So with that note, I'm gonna say thank you. Mahalo nui. We'll see you around, perhaps. Thank you.
All right stay in touch, check out my sons; band Wolfchild online.
The intention of these podcast series is to create a safe space for a respectful and inclusive dialogue with people from across a broad and diverse spectrum involved in growing and making assessable. The food we share together. A diversity of voices, perspectives and experiences can serve to deepen mutual understanding, to spark creative problem solving and provide insight into the complexities of our agriculture
system. If you, our listeners, have experiences with Hawaii agriculture ecosystem from indigitous methods, permaculture smallholder farmers to large including multinational agricultural, industrial companies and everywhere in between, and you would like to share your story, please contact us. We welcome your voices and perspectives.