Ep 08. Colorado AgrAbility

project. It is supported by grant from the US Department of Agriculture, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, and the Hawaii Department of Agriculture. Hi, Bob. Chad. Thank you for joining us on our podcast, our seeds of well being podcasts and like to introduce our audience to Bob Fetsch and Chad Reznicek. I'm sorry, if I mispronounce your name, I know you're it's a Czechoslovakian name, so I'm just gonna call you Chad, and Bob. So

Bob, can you tell us about a little bit about who you are your expertise and anything else you would like to share?

owns in North Texas. So I'm interested both from the background of being the brother and son of farmers and spending my 40 years as a career with working with all kinds of families, but especially with farm and ranch families who are highly resilient, who bounced back in spite of all kinds of setbacks and crises, etc. But they also have real challenges

in working together. And with stress, and depression and suicide, in terms of at least here in the mainland, their suicide rates are, are much higher than the national average. So I've been acutely aware of that and want to use my time and whatever skills I have, in helping people to recognize the signs of high stress, anger, depression and suicide, and to know how to make effective referrals. Is there more you want to know about my background, Department of Human Development Family Studies at

Colorado State University. I'm with Extension, I'm the co Project Director of the Colorado AgrAbility Project, Chad and I are with a FRSAN grant through through NIFA, National Institute for Food and Agriculture, to bring him on board where we're expanding what Colorado AgrAbility does, and that we've been, we published nine articles

on our work there. And we found not only we highly successful in improving the physical well being of farmers and ranchers in Colorado and 13 other states, but also in improving their psychological well being. And that's where Chad comes in, as he's the leader in terms of expanding our work to include the psychological well being and addressing those issues. He's doing a great job here in Colorado, and we'll be expanding to the straps in the western

region. And then with all 13 states and four territories and in the western region as well through another FRSAN grant. Is that were there other questions?

And, you know, growing up in a town of less than 2000 people, almost all the cultural events, seasonal activities, were all sort of dictated by agriculture. Definitely picked up a lot of my values and a lot of my sense of community and sense of where we kind of fit in the world through those early experience. Moved away from that small town and went to college and ended up as a licensed therapist. And I did that. And I've done that for 20 years, I've worked primarily with adolescents as my main

clinical population. But to do that effectively with adolescents, you really need to work with the systems around them. So worked a lot with, with families, with community members and stakeholders around those youth and been able to do it in North East New Mexico and some pretty rural areas where a lot of people there, traced their land back to Spanish land

grants. And so that was kind of a different land constellation, then, then what I grew up with in Nebraska, and then worked in a worked in residential settings, worked in correctional settings and worked in home settings, going into the family homes, and helping equip parents to develop skills to help their kids from prevent their kids from getting further into like system involvement with legal difficulties and whatnot. And I had an opportunity, so this position come available through

CSU. And I kind of felt like after 20 years of working specifically with adolescents, I paid off my karmic debt for my teenage years, and I might be ready to make a shift and also saw it as a chance to give back to the community that and the culture that gave so much to me. And so was really fortunate to be able to come on and have just

thoroughly enjoyed it. I see my task and my responsibility is looking at how can we help improve access and availability of quality behavioral health services specific for farmers and ranchers. I don't think that we often view that group as an underrepresented population, but the fact that it does require some pretty significant cultural awareness, and cultural competency and responsiveness in terms of being able to serve

them well. And I think there's some incredible strengths and some incredible challenges within that community and just starting to, I think scratch the surface of what we can do. So that's kind of my task.

the mind. And so can you share a little bit about some of the the resources that you develop to encourage our farmers or ranchers to recognize what is going on, that would need further strengthening so that we can continue to be resilient? Maybe reflect on a bit of what prevents folks from identifying sometimes that you know, we need a little strengthening and, and also identifying what can we enhance.

problem. Whatever it is. If a calf is sick, they figure out how do I solve that problem. If if, if a chisel broke down and needs welding, they figure it out. If a pipe is leaking, we figure it out. And so they look for concrete solutions. They're most of the farmers and ranchers I've met are very concrete operational. They they look at a problem and they think about it like an engineer does like my daughter does and, and my son in law, and they're quite practical people in which they look at

solutions to problems. And where one of the problems is with that is they apply that to their couple and family issues too. Well, if my wife has a problem, then let's solve the thing you know and get over it now. Got to get back out in the field. So they, they often often are not as skilled at listening patiently to their spouse or their mother or their dad, or son or daughter, as they could be. They could grow in that area many times. So because they look at it as a problem, and how can

we solve it and get 'er done? So what you mean Chad?

And so you there's not many things that really hamstring farmers and ranchers because they're so used to problem solving, and constantly looking at how do we adapt? How do we change? How do we be able to get from point A to point B, and that's fantastic, that level of grit is really amazing. And the downside of that is that it's really hard to ask for help. And so there's a lot of talk about

stigma. And it is definitely, I think, one of the biggest obstacles that I've seen in terms of getting services for farm people, because there is growing public support and awareness, growing awareness that farmers and ranchers really face a very unique stressors and very unique challenges. You I can't think of another occupation where you face so many things that are beyond your control, and you're expected to juggle them well, and keep figuring out how to keep going.

You know, just just the financial planning that has to go into adjusting the crop and seasonal preparations, and then all the things that could derail that, like that is a gamble most people don't have to face and then if you tie on top of that, the fact that you may be three or four, you know generation landholder, and you can't be the generation that's gonna lose the land like that pressure, just,

it's simply not an option. So the public awareness and growing support, I think, has led to some really innovative services and ideas and concepts. And even amongst the best of them, it's really hard to get those in front of the people that need it. And I think, you know, it's a really complicated issue in terms of the stigma piece, because on the one hand, there's a reluctance to talk about anything related to behavioral

health. But there's also in some ways, a very practical need not to be perceived as someone that could be struggling with some of that. If you think about just the competition for land, here on the mainland, the growing price of land and land leases, is that there can be, you know, within a 10 mile square radius, there can be tremendous competition to try to lease a

certain plot of land. And if the competition involves one person that's worried about having their truck show up in front of the local community mental health building, because they worried that will take them out of the running for competition, it's just simply not something they're going to risk doing. And so I think that that sort of old, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, grit mentality, that's an aspect of it. Again, I think there's some really

practical elements of it. And I think there's also a real need to just increase conversations and promote awareness. We know from research that one of the biggest predictors for help seeking behavior in agricultural communities is prior awareness of behavioral health issues. So it seems to me that the best we can do is have conversations like what we're doing today and really kind of get the message out there that you don't have to

struggle alone. And more so than that, you know, the most important piece of equipment in any operation is that farmer and rancher. It is their them and their family members. It's it's not the, you know, super expensive combine. It's not the latest tractor. It's not the center pivot. It's that individual in their ability to continue to sustain that practice and have good

relationships around them. So I think changing that conversation and helping them understand that this, this ability to care for yourself, and take care of your own thoughts in your emotions and your relationships is as crucial as maintaining your most

expensive equipment. And, and I think we just have to keep talking and getting that message out there so that people understand that You know, like Bob was describing that engineering mindset and that problem solving mindset around you, you drive around, you're constantly scanning your crop and your herd for to promote its

well being. So, you know, we talk sometimes about scanning for outliers, I need to identify those pockets of disease in my herd are crops that can potentially infect the whole. And in find a way to mitigate that, contain it, make sure it doesn't spread. Well, the same process goes into how we monitor our own thoughts and the quality of our own relationships as well. It's as important as those other elements in terms of crops

and herd health as well. So I think again, the more we can talk about and make this okay, and help people understand that you wouldn't slack on the maintenance for, you know, $100,000 piece of equipment. So why would you slap on the maintenance for this equipment between our two ears, it's absolutely essential. You know, you'll find ways to cobble together and keep your tractor running, you know, through the

planting season. But if you're not taking care of your stress and your well being, you know, it doesn't do you any good if you end up with panic attacks or heart disease, or any of the number of possible outcomes that can go with not managing our stress well.

assessment survey. So although we didn't get as many responses, we only have about, I forgot what's the number, 27, but the so it was a small number, but of those the indicators on stress, depression, and even suicidal thinking are higher than what the showing up among the ag producer. So for us, even though again, a small number, and perhaps we'll have to really dive deeper and do the next step maybe really target the family members to give them support, we didn't realize that this is

what's coming out. That families are even more stressed and wanting more support than the primary ag producers themselves. So the fact that you brought up the issue of family, including them family in your workshop, and reaching out to family members, very significant.

those counties. And one of the ratings that they look at his in the last 30 days, have you felt concerned about your mental health or mental well being, and all the more rural areas tend to score higher in those areas? So I couldn't tell you specifically about depression and things I don't I don't know of a good

tracking model for that. But the assumption would be that again, for looking at all those unique stressors that go into agriculture, sometimes the lack of social connections, all the elements are there to kind of ramp up some of those risk factors. And so I think it makes sense to operate from the assumption that there are increased risks for that. There's also probably an increased risk that if someone is depressed, it's been going on for a lot longer. You know, someone's a bit more savvy and

exposed to some of this. And you know, mental health literacy, I think is a term that's, that's often used. So if there's a lot of mental health literacy, then sometimes people will, okay, recognize my moods really been down for the last three weeks I better get in and do something, that trajectory for treatment is very different than someone that's been putting this off for

a year and a half. And so I just think that, you know, with those unique factors in our rural communities, it's worth assuming that we want to try to get as many safety nets in place as we can. And if you're familiar with Dr. Rosmann at all, out of Iowa, he's kind of I think, in many ways considered sort of the the godfather of agricultural

psychology. At least I'd use that term, I think it's fitting, but he's he kind of looked at it typically, it will be depression, anxiety are the two most common sort of diagnostic criteria that will come into play for farmers and ranchers, although I think he also talks about the relational issues will be tend to be one of the bigger things that maybe gets people in

the door. And I think as you start looking at it, then substance use, and we've seen a lot of data that substance use is really increased during COVID, as well, largely because again, of that increased isolation. And so I think those are some of the sort of main clinical elements that we need to kind of be aware of, and make sure there's supports in place for

him, you know. So I think some of those are some of the risk factors. On the protective factors have to do with many of many of the families have some kind of a religious connection with their church. And they get often gets support from their priest or minister or Rabbi that they have. That's one of the protective factors. Chad, do you want to add to that risk and protective factors?

before you get in there. So if I have to spend, you know, all day going back and forth, disking, or whatever I'm doing in through the course of my own head in that entire time in that cab, I'm persevarating and going through some of my more anxious thoughts and my fears and my worries, and no one to help check me on that. I mean, the good thing about a lot of other occupations, if you work in an office, and you come in and you're in a noticeably bad mood, likely one of your co workers is

going to call you out on it. And you don't always have that luxury for for this type of really sort of solitary work. So I think that can play an issue. And if I'm one of those guys, that doesn't want to sit with those thoughts going through my head in the cab of my tractor all day, and I've got some whiskey in my thermos, there's also no one really to check me

on that either. And so I think it just unfortunately, some of the downsides of that is it can allow me to get into some pretty negative patterns and kind of give some fertilizer to some things that aren't really healthy for me. So I think that's a piece on top of the stigma, the cultural elements, the difficulty talking about these things, because of how it's going to be perceived. And I think just the whole concepts of what behavioral health means and how to manage stress and

anxiety. If we could look at it more from again, the same sort of objective perspective that I would try to bring to crop or herd health, I think it becomes a different thing. And I don't think it's unique to farmers and ranchers. I think there's a lot of stigma around mental health and the the common tendency is to say what's wrong with me, as opposed to what's happened to me

what's happening? Because in some ways, it's no different in terms of what's going on with my thoughts than what's going on with my knee from years and years of trying to climb up into a skid steer or getting injured or getting knocked over by cow or whatever it may be like this type of work and these types of stressors take their toll on

bodies. That's part of why I think the Colorado AgrAbility Project the other states that have AgrAbility projects have been really successful in trying to help people with the physical accommondations part. It's a dangerous and risky profession and job, it takes its toll and bodies, and it definitely takes its toll on our thinking and our

well being as well. And so I just think all those things kind of combined together, increase some of the risk factors that protective factors that as hard as it may be, for me to ask for help. If my neighbors asking for help, odds are I'm going to be there,

exists in. And so for a lot of clinical practice for something to have ecological validity, the entire point for me as a clinician, is to know how that person operates in their environment, what are the factors that shape stress and reinforce them within their

natural context. So if I just meet with someone in an office and just go through, you know, sort of normal clinical interviews, all I see is that person in my office, I don't get a sense of what are the things that strengthen them, and beat them down in their own

environment, so to speak. And so the idea of looking at someone in the context of their land and their operation, being able to understand that in terms of the values of both assessment and tailoring interventions to go back, and hopefully help them have a different experience with their land and operation. That's one of the things we're working on now. So we've, I think we should have our first like formal trainings rolling out with that in April, I think we're collaborating with a group

called Kansas corn. It's got quite a number of providers within their network that has expressed an interest in doing that. But the hope in that is, you know, again, in terms of accessibility, acceptability, affordability, the hope and that is to equip therapists and social workers in rural areas, to have clinical techniques, worksheets, and philosophies that hopefully are resonating

with agricultural producers. And because you know, in terms terms of stigma and scarcity and everything else, we're talking about the gravity that's upon a provider, if you finally get a farmer or rancher in front of you to start engaging in therapy, they start telling me about their stresses, I don't know anything about their about what agriculture is as a profession, like, Wow, it sounds like you need to take about a two week vacation, the odds of them ever coming back for a

second session, or it's next to nothing. And worse, if they're willing to talk about that with their friends and someone else's, I'm really stressed, I'm thinking about going over to that local clinic and maybe talking to someone they're like, don't do it. They don't know sick'um from come here. And so you know, we want to be able to have something that resonates

with people. And makes sense. I mean, all really, if you think about it, all great clinical practices to have had to be culturally adapted for the populations they serve, it doesn't mean that you change the overall process and approach. But it is really commonplace to use metaphors, and recognize cultural values, and incorporate terms and things that resonate with people that are unique to

their communities. You know, the difference between working with someone urban youth in downtown Denver versus youth, in Greeley, there's very different cultural shifts there. And there's massive cultural shifts between produce growers over on the western slope versus corn producers in the eastern part of Colorado. So anyway, the whole idea is to come up with a

clinical model. And as far as we know, it's really the first one that we can see that's been culturally adapted to support farmers and ranchers.

different. And obviously, your cultural values are going to be unique to your to your area. And so the hope is that some of these things could be taken in, and still tailored to what's unique to your own individual area. And my hope would be if we build something that's productive, and it can be valuable in that sense, by all means, I hope it does get changed and made more relevant to each setting that it's used in.

everything. It's an exciting time to be able to to reduce stigma, and provide farmers and ranchers with resilience enhancing information and workshops.

agricultural communities. So it's good for people to know that they're theyʻre looked out for and there's someone that cares, and there's champions for him. So thank you very much.