SN 1011: Jailbreaking AI - Deepseek, "ROUTERS" Act, Zyxel Vulnerability - podcast episode cover

SN 1011: Jailbreaking AI - Deepseek, "ROUTERS" Act, Zyxel Vulnerability

Feb 05, 20253 hr 1 minEp. 1011
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Episode description

  • Why was DeepSeek banned by Italian authorities?
  • What internal proprietary DeepSeek data was found online?
  • What is "DeepSeek" anyway? Why do we care, and what does it mean?
  • Did Microsoft just make OpenAI's strong model available for free?
  • Google explains how generative AI can be and is being misused.
  • An actively exploited and unpatched Zyxel router vulnerability.
  • The new US "ROUTERS" Act.
  • Is pirate-site blocking legislation justified or is it censorship?
  • Russia's blocked website count tops 400,000.
  • Microsoft adds "scareware" warnings to Edge.
  • Bitwarden improves account security.
  • What's still my favorite disk imaging tool?
  • And let's take a close look into the extraction of proscribed knowledge from today's AI

Show Notes - https://www.grc.com/sn/SN-1011-Notes.pdf

Hosts: Steve Gibson and Leo Laporte

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For 16kbps versions, transcripts, and notes (including fixes), visit Steve's site: grc.com, also the home of the best disk maintenance and recovery utility ever written Spinrite 6.

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Transcript

Primary Navigation Podcasts Club Blog Subscribe Sponsors More… Tech The Growing Threat of AI Jailbreaking

Feb 7th 2025 by Benito Gonzalez

AI-created, human-edited.

In a recent episode of Security Now, Steve Gibson and Leo Laporte dove deep into the concerning world of AI jailbreaking, highlighting recent research that reveals just how vulnerable today's AI systems are to manipulation. The discussion centered around new research from Palo Alto Network's Unit 42, which demonstrated several effective techniques for bypassing AI safety measures.

As Gibson explained, the concern over AI jailbreaking isn't new, but it has escalated significantly as AI systems become more capable. While AI's problem-solving expertise offers tremendous benefits for humanity, these same capabilities can be exploited for malicious purposes. This creates what Gibson describes as "a new arms race" between AI creators implementing safety measures and those trying to bypass them.

The researchers identified three particularly effective methods for bypassing AI safety controls:

1. Bad Likert Judge: This technique manipulates AI systems by having them evaluate the harmfulness of responses using a rating scale, then cleverly requesting examples of highly-rated (harmful) content. The researchers successfully used this method to extract detailed information about data exfiltration tools and malware creation.

2. Crescendo: A surprisingly simple yet effective approach that gradually escalates the conversation toward prohibited topics, making it difficult for traditional safety measures to detect. Researchers demonstrated how this technique could be used to extract detailed instructions for creating dangerous devices.

3. Deceptive Delight: This multi-step technique embeds unsafe topics among benign ones within a positive narrative, effectively tricking the AI into providing dangerous information by masking it within seemingly innocent contexts.

The research focused particularly on DeepSeek, a new AI model from China. What made the findings particularly concerning was how easily researchers could bypass its safety measures. In one striking example, they showed how the AI went from initially refusing to provide information about creating phishing emails to later offering detailed templates and social engineering advice.

During the discussion, Leo Laporte raised a crucial point about the fundamental challenge of AI safety. As he noted, these systems are essentially sophisticated knowledge bases trained on vast amounts of information. While we can implement safety measures, the underlying knowledge - including potentially dangerous information - remains accessible with the right approach.

"I don't know how you stop it," Laporte observed. "Safety is almost impossible." Gibson agreed, noting that "This is a different category of problem than a buffer overflow."

The research highlights several concerning implications:

- As AI becomes more accessible and "democratized," malicious actors will have increased opportunities to exploit these systems

- Current safety measures, while well-intentioned, can be bypassed with relatively simple techniques

- The knowledge contained within these systems can be used to generate new, potentially dangerous information not available elsewhere

- Traditional cybersecurity approaches may not be sufficient to address these challenges

The discussion underscores a critical challenge facing the AI industry: how to maintain the benefits of powerful AI systems while preventing their misuse. As these systems continue to evolve and become more capable, the importance of developing more robust safety measures becomes increasingly crucial.

The hosts concluded that this represents a fundamentally different kind of security challenge than traditional cybersecurity issues. Unlike specific vulnerabilities that can be patched, this problem stems from the very nature of how AI systems work and the knowledge they contain.

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Feb 4 2025 - Jailbreaking AI
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