Bob Wheeler 00:30
Hey everybody, my name is Bob Wheeler. Sara, do you want to say hello?
Sara McMurrough
00:34
Sure, hi everyone. I'm really excited to talk to Kirsten about this and to talk
to our community about the SkillBridge program.
Bob Wheeler
00:41
So speaking of Kirsten, that's who the guest is. I'll let you guys take it
away. Kirsten, do you want to introduce yourself, and then you and Sara can get
your learn on here?
Kirsten Renner
00:49
Absolutely. I am Kirsten Renner, the TA VP at SilverEdge, and I'm excited to
talk about this subject with you all today.
Sara McMurrough
00:58
Speaking about SkillBridge, can you tell us a little bit about, in general,
what is SkillBridge? We can look at the literal definition, right? It bridges
between the military and the civilian side. But maybe you could give us a more
thorough definition of what that is, in case we have people listening who
aren't familiar with the program.
Kirsten Renner
01:16
Absolutely. As the name implies, and as you covered a little bit, it bridges
the gap between people transitioning from being an active duty service member
and coming into the private community. It does so through several different
types of opportunities that are made available for individuals in their last
180 days. By the way, it doesn't mean it's stuck on that time period, but it
can go up to that time period. It's an opportunity for active duty service
members to take on positions they're interested in taking on full-time after
they're done in the military. It's a lot like an internship would be. They call
them fellowships, and there are a couple different types, I think we'll cover
in the conversation, to explain what those different types of roles look like.
SilverEdge is the fourth company I've worked for that uses the program. We do
the best we can at SilverEdge to bring in as many fellows as possible—active
duty service members transitioning out and looking for the next opportunity.
Sara McMurrough
02:23
For me, I have to admit that my experience with SkillBridge has been really
limited. I've recruited in this industry for a long time but never had the
opportunity to work with this program. Being a military spouse myself, with a
spouse who will be retiring in just a few years, I admit I'm excited to learn
more for that reason. Is he eligible? What are the options we'll have as a
family? Gosh, if you could share with us, is SkillBridge open to all ranks?
That's a big question I have.
Kirsten Renner
02:54
It is open to all ranks, all years of experience, all ranks. You could put in
your four years and then do this, or you could be what I call a lifer and do
this 20 years later. I have helped people use the SkillBridge program at every
rank and every experience level.
Sara McMurrough
03:11
How about command approval? Thinking more of our maybe younger, lower enlisted
service members in particular who are thinking, I really want to participate in
this, but there are a lot of levels and layers of command above me that may not
think this is a great idea. What are your thoughts on getting command approval?
Kirsten Renner
03:29
I'm not going to exactly quote this young individual, my son, but I asked him—I
always try to gather as much information as I can—at the last ClearedJobs
event, by the way, where we had hundreds of people. It was crazy. I saw some
people there who had come through SkillBridge, and I knew this podcast was
coming up, so I asked them for their experience as well. Some of them were very
senior, but my son, who is at specialist level, I asked him this very question:
What happens if you're getting some resistance to getting command approval?
What do you do? Again, I'm not going to exactly quote him, just because he used
a couple bad words since he's an infantryman, but he said, make sure you know
your stuff. First of all, make sure you know the process and you followed the
process. Go to your next in command first. That's the first step, and make sure
they explain the process to you and you follow it. That's every form you're
supposed to fill out and every bit of paperwork you're supposed to complete in
the order you're supposed to complete it. If you're getting any kind of
resistance for approval, but you didn't do your part, that will delay you
getting what you need. He says this coming from the point of view of having
been working in the transition office, working in the back office, and being
the one administering the process on his end for the Army. So he knows that
when people were having issues, he would say, but did you do the thing you were
supposed to do? If your next in command isn't giving you the approval you're
looking for, he noted it could be a matter of something coming up on the
calendar, like a training rotation or something like that, that you are needed
for, and so that could delay the process. Or, there's an open door to your
command, so you have the right and the ability to go above your immediate
leadership if you aren't getting the approval you need. Go back to: Did you
follow the rules, and did you fill out all the paperwork? So be diligent about
the process. I would say step one, follow it and follow rank.
Bob Wheeler
05:39
The tough part about that command is, like you mentioned, Kirsten, if they need
you for something, that's always the hard part. They're letting you go, but the
command's not getting anybody to replace you, whether you're the S2 officer,
the XO, or the Humvee driver, right?
Kirsten Renner
05:54
Yep. All the people who signed up or are in the military know that the mission
comes first. That doesn't mean you won't get your approval, but it might delay
things. Like I said, people think, oh, it's 180 days, it has to be 180 days.
I've seen it at 90. I've seen it as low as 30, right? That's an important thing
for people to keep in mind as well. Don't lose hope if you don't get your six
months, because I've seen some people successfully finish fellowships in a
lower period of time. In fact, to touch a little bit on it, there are different
types of fellowships, right? There's a shadowing program, one-on-one, which is
a lot like what an internship would be. Then there are cohorts. Those cohorts
could be shorter periods of time too, and they could be for Security+
certification or for ServiceNow development. The larger organizations, as I
mentioned, will have these formal programs set up. Some of them are remote,
which is another question that, if people are listening, they're thinking: Can
I do it remotely? Yes, you can. Not all of them, but some of them, which is
fantastic. Those are more like classroom environments where you might achieve a
certification at the end of the cohort.
Sara McMurrough
07:05
What about pay during these either classes or the internship? We know that's a
question too, right? Because a lot of times, you're in college, you do an
internship, and it's for free. That's true. Families coming out of the military
might think, I really can't work for free for six months; it's just not
possible.
Kirsten Renner
07:26
Part of the agreement, the partnership between the participating employer and
the DoD, is that you are receiving your full pay. Another question for the
employers who are listening and wondering, how do I become a participating
employer, and is it going to cost me anything? No, it’s not. Now, the caveat
being, you don't get to then bill the government for your fellows, because that
would be double-dipping. You don't get to do that, but you do not have to pay
the fellows. The employer does not, but the fellows are getting full pay.
Bob Wheeler
07:56
This just jumped in my head too, Kirsten. I know it says it's full pay and
benefits and everything like that. Do you know if the basic allowance for
housing—if they take a fellowship at a different place—are they still getting
BAH?
Kirsten Renner
08:06
Smart question. The answer is yes.
Bob Wheeler
08:09
They're still getting the old BAH, and they don’t get the better one if they go
to DC, for example?
Kirsten Renner
08:13
Your assigned duty station is the housing allowance.
Sara McMurrough
08:16
Another thing I've thought a lot about and read a lot about is that sometimes
service members might have unrealistic expectations of what they want to see
coming out of this internship or SkillBridge opportunity. For example, I read
about one where someone did a really short one, only a couple of months, and it
was cyber-focused, but their military background and any civilian background
before that wasn't cyber-focused, and they wanted to come out and be a cyber
professional. In most cases, I would consider that to be maybe unrealistic. So,
keeping things realistic, what are your thoughts on that and experiences with
those types of things?
Kirsten Renner
08:56
I love that question. It's no different than any other training program you go
into in terms of being realistic. I have seen some people who had really high
hopes, either coming out of college or coming out of the military, going into
cyber in particular. I almost don't even like to use the word "cyber"
these days because it covers so many things. But there's definitely an
expectation that you're going to make zillions of dollars and be so employable
that you'll never have to look for another job again. If the sky is the limit
on your expectations, you probably need to reel them back to a little bit more
reality. One of the individuals I spoke to at the last ClearedJobs.Net job
fair, when I was asking him these types of questions, said, it's not a fit for
everyone, right? It's not one-size-fits-all. All the employers are different.
This is an investment that employers are making. It is incumbent upon the
employers to give the best training experience. Like we did at Novetta and at
SilverEdge, we’re making a commitment to ensure there will be opportunities
when the fellowship is successfully completed. It is a duty upon employers to
make the investment and commitment to providing good opportunities for people,
but you have to do your market research and make sure you make the most of the
opportunities. If certifications are available where you are doing your
fellowship, speak to the people who are working there now, build relationships
with the people working in that organization. Find out what sort of
certifications they received or have that have helped them in their careers.
Have a finish line in mind at the beginning—how you want it to end, what your
target is, your career target, a particular position target—and try to meet as
many of those people within the organization as you can so they can help guide
what you're doing, even beyond the fellowship. They may say, you really need to
get a Security+, or you really need to get an A+, or, I always wanted to be a
reverse engineer, or I wanted to get into crypto, and here's the path I took.
The fellowship may be learning about pen testing or incident response, and
those are the steps on the path you need to take to end up where you ultimately
want to end up.
Sara McMurrough
11:24
Do you tend to see more transitioning service members who are trying something
outside of what they've already been doing? Are they pursuing SkillBridge
opportunities with new areas of focus? If they’ve been in, say, cyber, but want
to do something completely different, do you see more of that, or do you see
individuals building on what they've already been doing? I'm just curious.
Kirsten Renner
11:51
That's a really good question. It's a process because people, regardless of the
experience level they have in their military career, one of the things I see
the most—I just did a series of networking socials attached to bases all down,
as you know, I was down to Bragg quite a bit, fun times, and ended up here in
the DC area meeting a ton of active duty service members and transitioning
service members. A common theme is that they're looking for guidance on what to
do next, right? Most of them are hoping you will help them understand what is
even out there. They may not have a full understanding of what they're looking
for. I haven't seen a ton of individuals who went way out of their wheelhouse.
But when they connected with the right people—a recruiter, a PM, or someone who
could help them in their search—those people might say, I see that in your
experience, you did this, this, this, and this, and that sounds a lot like
program management, or that sounds a lot like capture, or we can take all these
analytic skills you have, this SIGINT over here, or any type of HUMINT
experience you have, and you are going to be a fit for what we need. It’s about
helping them translate—telling them about the work we're doing, the work we're
pursuing, and helping them understand how the work they're currently doing will
translate into what's available on the private side.
Sara McMurrough
13:24
That is so important, and I know that's challenging. Going back to my husband,
who will be retiring in a couple of years, we're kind of doing the same thing,
looking at, okay, what do we do with what he's been doing for years? But what
happens if someone goes through the SkillBridge program and maybe doesn't want
to do what they did, or if they don’t want follow-on employment? On the other
side, is there guaranteed follow-on employment through a SkillBridge program?
They're kind of two different avenues, right?
Kirsten Renner
13:54
There isn't a guarantee, but part of the agreement on the partnership side is
that you say that is your intention as a partner, right? The employer, whether
they read the fine print or not, did commit to the DoD that their intention is
to provide full-time opportunities. I read the agreement; that's what it says.
But there isn't a guarantee—the work may not be available. I will say it's okay
if whatever you were doing during your fellowship is not what you want to do
when you grow up. That's okay. It's still a learning experience. It still goes
on your resume, but you're not now trapped into doing whatever your fellowship
was about. It's still exposing you to a new environment, a whole new world,
frankly. You're getting to feel what it feels like to wear a different uniform
and go to a different environment. So there's no loss, in my opinion, in doing
a fellowship that isn't necessarily what you want to do. Because, remember, we
talked about it just creating a path to something else. It's like a test drive.
Sara McMurrough
15:04
I love that. I love the test drive. So while someone's going through the
SkillBridge program, they should probably continue to network outside of what
they're doing and with other companies, pursuing other opportunities, right?
Because what if there is not an opportunity when they're done, whether they
want it or not?
Kirsten Renner
15:25
Yep. LinkedIn is such a valuable resource. Job fairs, like you talked about,
continuing to go to events and talk to people.
Bob Wheeler
15:35
Hey, Kirsten, we actually have a question coming in through LinkedIn. I just
wanted to throw out there to you. John’s asking about trying to figure out
where he can find out where SkillBridge opportunities are. You're at
SilverEdge—does your careers page have a special SkillBridge section? Are there
just job postings that say SkillBridge? What would be the best way for someone
to try to figure out if a company had what they were looking for for
SkillBridge-type stuff?
Kirsten Renner
15:58
All of the above. The DoD SkillBridge site lists all of the employers, and it
gives you the option to search by employer name, location, or discipline.
That's one place to look. The other place would be on the specific employers'
websites. Some of them will have a special section—they may call it military
hiring, they may call it SkillBridge—and some just have them listed among all
of their other career opportunities.
Sara McMurrough
16:28
How long before someone is in the position where they could do a SkillBridge
opportunity should they start looking for an opportunity?
Kirsten Renner
16:37
It's never too early to start looking, and that's for all career seekers,
right? Wherever you are, actively or passively, if you want to keep exploring,
you never stop networking. Never stop looking. Some of the best jobs I ever had
offered to me and ended up taking were when I was actively and happily working
somewhere else, right? So it's never too early.
Sara McMurrough
17:01
Is it okay to approach a company? Say someone is interested in working for
SilverEdge, and there's maybe not an opportunity posted at this time. Is it
okay to ask a company, do you participate in the SkillBridge program?
Kirsten Renner
17:15
I'm so glad you asked that. I feel like you just threw me a softball, and it
was a favor to me, because I should have said that. If you don't see it posted,
in fact, that goes for all positions too, but for SkillBridge in particular,
yes. If you don't see it listed, you can send a direct message on LinkedIn.
Always ask if they're participating in SkillBridge. If the opportunity is not
yet available, they can create the opportunity. It's very simple. It's very
easy to do.
Sara McMurrough
17:42
I love that. I think we have one more question we wanted to make sure we hit
on, and I'll let you take the lead on it, Kirsten, because you're the one who
brought this up to us about terminal leave.
Kirsten Renner
17:52
Because I ended up having to look that up as well when a candidate asked me,
what happens to my terminal leave? It is still available to you. You still get
to take it, so you won't be losing out on that.
Bob Wheeler
18:03
Like you, Sara, I was in the military. I saw a family that just got out of the
military in the last year. SkillBridge is one of those topics that people are
always asking about, whether it's a lance corporal or a lieutenant colonel. We
appreciate your feedback, Kirsten, because I think the thing I took away from
this was: ask the questions. If you don't know the answers or don't have the
answer, ask a question from the individual employer, because they're the ones
who can really explain what that process is going to be like on that end.
Kirsten is right there—she comes to a lot of job fairs, she's out and about, a
super big-time veteran advocate for all kinds of stuff, so we appreciate it.
Sara McMurrough
18:44
Really grateful for your time today, Kirsten. Of course, really valuable
information. Thanks a lot, everybody. Bye.