Ashley Jones 00:53
Hey, job seekers. Thanks for joining us today. And honestly, I have been counting down the days till this episode, because I think it's gonna be a game changer for a lot of you and it's gonna make your job search a whole lot easier.
Rachel Bozeman 01:06
She is not kidding friends. She is super excited about what we're going to talk about today. And we're just here to make it easy peasy lemon squeezy for all of you as you're out there on the thing called job search. But before we jump into today's topic, let me introduce everyone on the show. Of course, you know me, I'm Rachel. And I happen to be in a little bit of an Ashley sandwich today, because we have not one, but two Ashley's on the line.
Ashley Jones 01:36
Yep. Ashley Jones here, producer of the show and an occasional host, and I'm happy to be back with you as always, Rachel. But for everyone tuning in, if you caught our first episode of 2024 then you might remember Ashley Owens who joined us then. And lucky for us, she has agreed to come back today.
Rachel Bozeman 01:52
We get some repeat customers. We are so excited you're here, Ashley. Welcome.
Ashley Owens 01:58
Hi. Thank you both for having me today.
Rachel Bozeman 02:00
And now that we've got all of you out there in podcast world excited and we built some anticipation, Miss AJ, tell us a little bit more about what we're here to talk about.
Ashley Jones 02:10
During your previous appearance, Ashley, the last question that we asked you was how candidates can use AI in their job search. And you had a great response, but it was really nearing the end of our episode. I could talk about this subject all day. So thank you for coming back so we can dive in and talk about how job seekers can use AI in their favor.
Rachel Bozeman 02:30
So as Ashley kind of referenced, last time you were here, you explained that we're in an environment where recruiters are moving super-fast, so it's important that the candidates are moving even faster. And you said that AI can really kind of help level that playing field. Tell us a little bit more about what you meant by that and how you use AI as a recruiter.
Ashley Owens 02:50
Absolutely. Late last year, I attended an event specifically for recruiters called Source Con. And we spent several days talking about how recruiters are currently, and how recruiters will be using AI to better find candidates. And what we came out of after that event was that AI is not going to be replacing recruiters in its entirety. However, recruiters absolutely need to start using AI in order to find candidates faster and more effective. Conversely, what that means for candidates is that candidates also need to start using AI in order to be not only adapt within their own career search, but also able to more readily connect with these recruiters. And so I always want to give candidates a little bit of reassurance, particularly if you're not technically inclined, AI is not necessarily something that you need to master. AI is simply about working smarter, not harder, and using automation to attain that goal. And what this means, and what we'll talk about today is how candidates can use various AI tools in order to better enhance their resume, cover letter, social platforms, interview skills, even when it comes time to accepting, declining or negotiating an offer. All of it is going to be absolutely critical in terms of allowing a candidate to move faster within this new recruiting landscape.
Ashley Jones 04:36
I think you sold me on listening to the rest of the episode. That's a great overview of some of the different areas that we'll touch on. And I know last time you were here you had mentioned Grammarly, which you said is technically AI. And I'm happy to say that I've converted. I've downloaded the free desktop app and now I have my own little personal writing assistant that checks my grammar whether I'm on Microsoft Word on my desktop or writing an email in my browser. And for people who aren't familiar with Grammarly, can you explain a little bit how that's different than the built in spellcheck that's already, like I said, built into a lot of these different applications?
Ashley Owens 05:09
Absolutely. And it is one of the tools that I do recommend not only while you are actively pursuing new employment opportunities, but realistically for everyday use, particularly if you're working in a dynamic that requires you to use email or any type of text writing frequently throughout the day. Grammarly is a bit different than your typical email recommendations in terms of what to say, or your typical spelling check. And what it does is it allows you to modify the writing tone. It better learns what your tone is versus another user's tone, and it starts to adopt that tone and allows you to receive recommendations that are a bit more in line with what you would typically use when it comes to writing different notes, whether it be an inquiry about a certain opportunity, a follow up to an interview, or if you're simply thanking someone for their time. Even in a type of dynamic where you're not selected for the role at hand, it can be very difficult to come up with the right words of what to say, how to say it, and how others are going to perceive it. And using something like Grammarly will allow you to have that reference right there, providing you real time feedback without having to go contact your mentor or your friend or your spouse or colleague to say, "Hey, can you look at this, read it and let me know what you think?" It uses the background and it really takes a lot of the stress off of the candidate because they've had a specific AI tool that they've used time and time again, providing the best way of writing that particular message for whatever purpose you're going to use it. And this also includes your social media like LinkedIn. It's important to be able to use tools that can be applied throughout all of the different platforms that you as a candidate might be interacting with a recruiter on.
Ashley Jones 07:16
And I think it is that aspect of, something like Grammarly, is right there in whatever application or website you already happened to be typing on. You're not having to, like you said, contact a mentor -- or we'll talk about ChatGPT in a little bit too -- you're not having to necessarily copy and paste in your writing and prompt it to then give you feedback. It's already doing it right there on the spot. Last time, you did mention that something like Grammarly could maybe be used in a Virtual Job Fair environment too. Do you want to talk about how that would work for someone that's talking to a recruiter or hiring manager virtually in real time?
Ashley Owens 07:49
So when you are installing any type of AI, typically you will need to install some type of an add on or a plugin. Luckily there are tons of videos and tutorials about how to do this. And I have used Grammarly in those dynamics on the recruiter side as well as the candidate side. The nice thing is, when you install the plugin, you'll see a pop up that does recommend different phrases or different ways to revise what you're saying in real time. So for example, if you're typing and your message is a little lengthy, it can make recommendations to create a more concise tone for that particular platform. You can also use other forms of AI to include ChatGPT. They do have a plugin called Merlin AI. That is another tool that you can use as an alternative that will allow you to use it across all different platforms to include virtual hiring events. And one of the things that I love most about it -- and this does require a little bit of time preparing -- you are able to create an Excel document or however you want to format this document with a full list of all of the vendors who will be in attendance in this virtual career fair. Typically, you can see the vendor list on different advertisements for that virtual career fair, you can go ahead and have your AI create a list of all of the affiliate websites for the companies that are going to be participating rather than you going to Google or Bing or whatever search engine you use. And we'll categorize what types of employers they are, what their website is, and then you can take it one step further. And you can specifically create a prompt by saying, "Use the [whatever the item is going to be - typically I'm going to recommend an Excel document] and create intros for all of these employers specifically for [these types of roles]." Now, you will have to fill in the blanks a little bit. But for example, if you say, "Create an intro as a candidate attending a virtual career fair, for the following list of employers targeting roles within software development," you will then have, let's say there's 30 employers that are going to be attending, 30 unique scripts that you can use to copy and paste. Always take a moment and review, revise before you hit send. But rather than spending hours going online, you can use AI to scrape those websites for you and easily come up with these prompts in advance. Again, you're simply spending your time a bit differently, but you're able to move so quickly and create personalized hooks to get these employers in that virtual environment to respond to you.
Ashley Jones 11:01
In case anyone missed it, what was that resource in particular that you're using in tandem with an Excel spreadsheet in that example?
Ashley Owens 11:07
So there's a couple of add-ons. One is Merlin AI. And that is going to be a plugin for ChatGPT. And that is going to provide you with live recommendations while you're typing. If you do want to be prepared in advance, you can go ahead and use ChatGPT. You can use the free version, but you will need to add a plugin for some type of document so that it can parse that document. Typically, you're going to be using a Microsoft Excel document. That can be a Google Sheet if you don't have access to Microsoft 365 on your desktop. You simply need a mechanism to be able to upload some type of a list. You can ask the system to create an Excel document for you. I will tell you that when using any of these AI platforms, you will start to notice that the more you ask the AI platform to do for you, the slower it will operate if you are operating on an unpaid version of the platform. Gotta get you somewhere, right? This is such a fantastic conversation. And I have to tell you, I've personally tried to break Grammarly. And I think I've done pretty well. I don't believe in commas and Grammarly does. So we've been at odds a couple of times. But overall, it's amazing. But something else that you've mentioned that I'm really excited to talk a little bit more about is ChatGPT. You can do just about anything in there. You can write a poem. You can write a letter to your neighbor about their dog that barks constantly. You can do just about anything, but there's really something that's important, especially for our listeners, and it's really around resumes. How can ChatGPT help someone write their resume? It's one of my favorite tools. I do use it on a daily basis as a recruiter as well as for personal use. I am a certified resume writer and I have written over 1500 resumes in my background. I use at this point, ChatGPT to assist when it comes to revising resumes, every single time now. I may not use the exact script because it's not always going to be in the right tone. Or perhaps some of my prompts are not as specific as they needed to be. However, it does provide you a fantastic start and gives you alternatives, particularly if you're facing writer's block. And so I do recommend using that platform to not only revise your resume, but write entire parts of the resume. I will tell you that when you are using the platform to write a resume, you do need to be specific with the prompt that you use. The nice thing is, if you don't know how to use ChatGPT, you can literally pull up the platform, you can go to chatgpt.com and you can add in a prompt. I do believe you need to create a username and password at this time even for the free version of the platform. But earlier today, I went into my profile and I wrote, "provide a list of the top 10 prompts for job seekers to help secure a job." You do want to be more specific. So for example, you can say, "within the software industry." You do want to be as specific as possible because otherwise the tool is going to scrape all available resources online and provide you with what is going to be best suited overall. Again, the more specific you can be the better results you're going to end up with. But you are able to copy and paste bullet points into ChatGPT and simply say, "revise these bullet points for a resume to make them more concise." You could also as another example, type in, "create a resume based on an 11 Bravo soldier that's going to be an infantry man in the army, with 10 years of experience and a degree in computer science." And with those two bits of information, you can create an entire resume within approximately five seconds. Is it going to be the best resume and the exact resume that you want to download and send off? Absolutely not. However, it will give you those fundamentals. And you can look at those bullet points and say, you know, as an 11 Bravo in the army, I did indeed do all of these things. You can modify the tone in order to make it sound a bit more like something that you would use. And that's going to give you a really good foundation. I use it time and time again to revise resumes. At this point, I will plug in the script or the segment that I want the platform to review and revise, I will also plug in the link for the job description and specifically have ChatGPT tailor all of the bullet points, or all of the summary details to the role at hand so that I am meeting all of the keywords that are necessary. And again, at this point, I'm simply talking about the free platform. We haven't gotten into any type of paid platform use yet. But absolutely, I would recommend it. All of the resume writers that I know also use it, again, to tailor and refine. But you don't want to use this tool and have full trust in it the first time around. Because unless you are a pro at creating the different prompts for ChatGPT, you may not have provided enough information initially. Therefore you do need to take the time, read through, revise, and then go ahead and decide what parts you're going to keep, what parts you're not going to keep, and then send off. It does absolutely help because it is still recommended that you tailor your resume for every single role you apply for. If you're applying for 30, that's a lot of time. You can revise your resume yourself for all 30 roles, but why would you need to do that when you can simply use a tool like this? And then do your due diligence, go back, read through, revise and send off. You're still doing the same thing that you would tailoring your resume. You're simply using a reliable tool to do it instead. And so we talked a lot about the resume and some of the goodness there, but let's talk about something a little controversial, because it wouldn't be a podcast without a little controversy. It's the cover letter. How can we use AI to really help us with a cover letter? So cover letters are becoming a tool that was a bit more popular in the past, but are still absolutely used with many companies today. So I have known a lot of candidates that have said, I don't need a cover letter, I've never been asked for one, until they go to apply for that one role and realize it says to upload a cover letter and it's 11pm at night. It's helpful to have one on hand to use and to modify and tailor. But one of the things that you can use with ChatGPT is, you can add in the link for the company that you are applying for, their overall website. You can also add in the link for the specific role that you are interviewing for. And you can tell the program to create a cover letter for you. Specify the role that you're applying for and add in that you want a cover letter that references either the mission statement, the ethos, the culture of the company. So writing a cover letter is something that I will tell you is not my favorite thing to do. But using this platform, it does allow you to again, work faster and say, you know, that does look like something that I would like to say, let me keep this one line. But I'm going to edit the next two sentences to sound a bit more like me. Again, it's far easier to revise something than it is to look at a blank piece of paper and say, well let me come up with something from the ground up. So absolutely. I do recommend using the platform for not only your cover letter, but also your post interview follow up -- always send a thank you email -- and your follow up thereafter through the next series of segments, whether it is follow up interviews, you're receiving an offer, whatever that next step may be. This platform can really allow you to maintain a consistent tone. And it does allow you to do so within a matter of a few minutes. Whereas you might have spent an hour looking at that cover letter if you were to draft one from the ground up on your own.
Ashley Jones 18:39
And in addition to curing writer's block, like you mentioned, it can also give you ideas about the interview process, maybe some questions that you can expect. I did a little testing myself and I copied and pasted a job description in to ChatGPT, and I'm learning today maybe I could have just pasted in the URL instead of the text, but I asked it to give me some interview questions for a network engineer job. And it was cool, because it gave me more specific interview questions than just like the soft skills-based things like, tell me about a time you solved a problem. It was giving me specific things to that job like about how you would deploy a multi-protocol IP backbone. It gives you ideas and some possible questions to work through. So can you explain how you can use AI to prepare for interviews? Explain it to someone who's never done this before. What can they literally type in as a prompt, for instance, into ChatGPT to get started with this?
Ashley Owens 21:19
One of the things that you can do at a very rudimentary level is when you go into ChatGPT, you can type in, "create a mock interview for a candidate who's interviewing for a" [add the role - I used software development engineer] and then [add the company name]. If it is a well-known company, fantastic, you're going to be able to pull a lot of resources. If it's a startup company, and the company doesn't even have a website, it might provide you with very limited results. So you might be better off finding a like company to simulate that mock interview. What I did was I plugged in, "create a mock interview for a candidate interviewing for a software development engineer position with Amazon Web Services." I did that because I worked at Amazon Web Services in recruiting in the past, and I wanted to see how realistic and how accurate the interview results would be. I'll be honest, the first thing that popped up was pretty good. It provided me with about seven questions. And again, if you're interviewing with a big-name company, you will be able to find data, because what the ChatGPT system does is, it scrapes all internet sources for the information you're seeking. So somewhere someone has posted about their feedback, their interview, their experience as a recruiter. It will compile all of this data for you, and provide you with the best examples of what you're likely to encounter. Again, the more specific you can become when creating your prompt, the better result you will end up with. But even at a very baseline level, if you simply type in, "create a mock interview for [this type of role]," you will be able to start looking at what you're typically going to encounter during an interview and cultivating answers for what you're likely going to say, should you be at the other end of any one of those questions. So absolutely. I use this on a daily basis, not only for myself, but also as a recruiter. I need to learn some of these network engineer components and I'm not a network engineer myself. So recruiters are also using this tool to come up with the right screening questions for candidates. So what a great way to find and use this tool in order to identify what you're likely going to encounter during that interview.
Rachel Bozeman 23:53
So we've talked about the resume, we've talked about the interview and ways that those can all be assisted through different forms of AI. But now let's talk about something that really tends to be a hang up for a lot of folks when they're getting to those final stages. And that's the salary conversation. It can be scary, it can be looming, what's the right thing to say? What's the wrong thing to say and when to say it? So tell us how you could use ChatGPT in terms of kind of really preparing yourself for that salary conversation.
Ashley Owens 24:22
And that's something that I certainly would use when you are negotiating your salary. You always want this to be in writing. And so it's a good opportunity for you to revise what you are putting on paper, really it's going to be on email, but also including all of the relevant factors. It is important to explain exactly what you're looking for. And so when you're adding in your prompt to negotiate your salary, you can simply add in, "create a statement or a counter offer for this role," but include the following details and you want to add in, the base pay that they offered versus the base pay that you want, the sign on bonus or annual bonus they offered versus what you're looking for, benefits to include PTO values, stock, 401K, profit sharing, pension, company car. These are all different details that you can use and all different aspects that you can negotiate. You certainly want to include them all. I like to start with, this is what you offered and this is what I'm countering for. And if you accept my counter, I plan on accepting this role and starting on this date, simply so that the employer at hand understands what I am asking for. And typically I recommend anywhere between a five to no more than 10% increase based on what they're offering if we're talking about base pay. But it allows you to explain exactly where you're coming in at. Will they automatically accept your counteroffer every single time? No, not necessarily. However, using AI to verify that your statement's tone is professional or if you want to make it more friendly, you can simply type into ChatGPT, "make the following message a bit more friendly," and it will modify the tone to suit your needs.
Ashley Jones 26:17
Awesome. Well, this conversation has been a lot of fun. But on a serious note, is there any considerations that we need to talk about as far as operational security along the lines of, should you be using this on a government computer at work?
Ashley Owens 26:30
I can tell you on the government contractor side, depending on what role you have, you can use ChatGPT. However, if you are an employee that has a cat card reader on your computer, that's a pretty telltale sign that I would not recommend downloading this on your work device. Your personal device, absolutely, there are always going to be ways around it. But you need to be mindful of OpSec and what you're adding on to that device, because you are providing access to certain materials. And I have seen some faux pas where certain individuals have tried to rewrite for example, SOPs, and they provided ChatGPT with all the information to revise that SOP. However, it was in a classified environment - that's not recommended. So you can absolutely use it on your personal device, but I would not recommend using this type of AI, at this point in time, on your government computer or government device.
Rachel Bozeman 27:34
Well, it has been an awful lot of fun. And I think we have covered so very much. I've got so much to research now, so many things to look into. It has been absolutely wonderful to learn with both of you. So thanks so much for the time today. Thank you.
Ashley Jones 27:53
I'm so glad that Ashley Owens came back today. It was a great conversation, even better than I could have anticipated. I fancy myself someone that uses ChatGPT to really speed up some of the different things that I do, but her tips, it just made me realize that it's really about writing the prompt that you're going to put into something like ChatGPT, that you're giving it enough information, you're telling it exactly what you want it to do, so that it then generates the text that's actually going to be most beneficial to you and therefore save you the most amount of time. What about you, Rachel, what did you think?
Rachel Bozeman 28:24
Something that I really appreciated about the conversation was the reminder of how we can implement this in so many of those things. I think a lot of us are used to using it for writing and things like that. But what I found fascinating and had never thought about before was the salary negotiation piece because sometimes that is so tricky when it's somewhere we don't feel the most confident to kind of get that reassurance. And I also really appreciated the reminders, be it subtle or not so subtle, about this is a great foundation. It should not be the final product of what you're putting out there. But it's a really good starting place. So this was a blast and I love spending time in the middle of the Ashley sandwich and learned so very much today. So if you've learned something new, get out there. Leave us a five-star rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, bye.