In the early 2000s, the advent of DNA test kits opens the Pandora’s Box of conception secrets. As the identities of many previously anonymous sperm donors are suddenly revealed, their biological children’s lives are upended upon learning the truth about how they’d been conceived. Amelia speaks to Darren, a medical student who’d donated his sperm anonymously in the 1980s, and Guy, a man who found out in adulthood he had been conceived with anonymous donor sperm, following Victoria’s decision to b...
May 27, 2025•42 min•Season 6Ep. 2
An intriguing email propels journalist Amelia Oberhardt to investigate the fertility industry in Australia, its history and methods, and the outcomes for the children born during the early days of IVF – when secrecy around conception and anonymous sperm donation was the norm. Amelia’s starting point is her best friend’s mother – one of the first women to go through infertility treatment in Queensland and successfully give birth to one of the state’s first ‘test tube babies’. Amelia speaks to the...
May 27, 2025•36 min•Season 6Ep. 1
Egg donation, sperm donation and surrogacy – assisted reproduction technologies have made it easier than ever to have a baby but created an ethical and identity minefield. From finding sperm on Facebook, to finding out you might have 700 siblings, Secrets We Keep: By Any Means examines the multibillion-dollar fertility industry that fills wombs. Journalist Amelia Oberhardt speaks with parents, adult children and clinicians about the ‘wild west’ of the modern fertility landscape, confronting comp...
Apr 13, 2025•3 min
Claire discovers how the Australian Federal Police are embracing FIGG, but with no regulation to safeguard against the privacy concerns which come with increased genetic surveillance. And in the final episode of Should I Spit?, the true market value of DNA databases is revealed and we find out how the personal information amassed by companies like Ancestry is being facilitated by Australia’s National Archives. The Angie Dodge murder is finally solved but a final tragic twist shocks everyone invo...
Mar 19, 2025•48 min•Season 5Ep. 9
Claire meets the scientist responsible for the original DNA family history project Michael’s father donated to. He’s a well-known archaeo-geneticist who was attempting to build a DNA family tree of the whole world, with the hope it would bring world peace. This ambitious plan was funded by a Mormon billionaire. A celebrity genetic detective takes on the Angie Dodge case and finds that a distant relative of Michael’s was responsible for the murder. Claire discovers in this episode of ShouldI Spit...
Mar 19, 2025•45 min•Season 5Ep. 8
Claire learns the details about the original study which took the DNA samples from Michael’s father; from its religious origins to how the data eventually became part of Ancestry’s database. The police have another investigative lead to Angie’s killer, an image created purely from the DNA taken from the crime scene. Detectives show it to Michael’s family, convinced the killer lurks somewhere in his family tree. Lifeline 13 11 14 Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy in...
Mar 19, 2025•41 min•Season 5Ep. 7
Although Michael is no longer a murder suspect, his male cousins are scrutinised. The Idaho Falls police are trialing a new technology which predicts someone’s physical appearance based on DNA samples. Michael’s sceptical about the science and fears the police are searching deeper in his family to find Angie’s killer. Episode 6 of Should I Spit? reveals forensic genetic genealogy is enthusiastically embraced by the Australian police with no new privacy legislation and little public scrutiny. Lif...
Mar 12, 2025•36 min•Season 5Ep. 6
A man called Chris Tapp has been in prison for 20 years for the death of Angie, but his DNA was never found at the crime scene. For Angie’s mother, Carol it doesn’t make sense, and she goes from initially calling for this man’s execution to being his greatest advocate. Carol then pushes the police to use a new technique of forensic genealogy. However, fears this new technique threaten both people’s right to privacy and their presumption of innocence begin to surface. Meanwhile, Claire discovers ...
Mar 12, 2025•41 min•Season 5Ep. 5
Claire attends RootsTech, the world’s largest family history conference to learn why genealogy is such a popular hobby. There, Claire learns how the LDS Church and Ancestry have amassed billions of records worldwide and turned the mapping of family trees into a multi-billion dollar industry. Meanwhile, Michael continues to investigate how he’s been caught up in the Angie Dodge investigation, so he travels to Idaho Falls to meet Angie’s mother, Carol. Lifeline 13 11 14 Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636 Se...
Mar 12, 2025•37 min•Season 5Ep. 4
DNA is the blueprint for life. While police call it the ‘gold standard’ for forensic identification, transnational corporations see dollar signs. Investigative journalist Claire Aird brings the untold story of how your DNA data can land you in a murder investigation, and how this same data is amassed for power and profit. Should I Spit? is the origin story of the multibillion dollar consumer DNA industry. From police hoping to solve cold murder cases, to one of the most powerful churches in the ...
Feb 26, 2025•4 min
In this episode of Should I spit? , Claire discovers how the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is inextricably linked with the history of genetics and genealogy, through the church’s doctrines and rituals. Michael is shocked to learn that he was identified through a blood sample his father donated at his local church. Michael’s DNA doesn’t match and is cleared by police, however, he is shaken and wants answers. He can’t understand how the police linked him and his family to Angie’s mur...
Feb 03, 2025•45 min•Season 5Ep. 3
Claire travels to Salt Lake City to meet Michael Usry, a Mississippi man who was implicated in the brutal murder of Idaho Falls teen Angie Dodge years earlier. The police suspect Michael because his name, appearance and age match the confession of a man in jail, believed to be his accomplice. Michael is also a horror filmmaker whose dark film features similarities to Angie’s murder. In episode two of Should I Spit?, The police interrogate Michael and force him to give his DNA under a court order...
Feb 03, 2025•34 min•Season 5Ep. 2
While working on a cybersecurity podcast, journalist Claire Aird reads a startling statistic: Ninety per cent of people with European ancestry in the US are identifiable because of DNA data their relatives have uploaded to a family history database. Claire’s curiosity soon becomes an investigation into how our DNA is being used for power and profit. In this episode of Should I Spit?, Claire finds out that the DNA data on genealogy sites is never fully anonymous, so she starts to interrogate how ...
Feb 03, 2025•37 min•Season 5Ep. 1
Richard gives an update on Todd Hubers plea hearing and shares two more important stories from women who grew up in the Revival Church movement. Do you know more? Get in touch secretswekeep@sca.com.au Lifeline 13 11 14; 1800 Respect 1800 737 732 Looking for what to listen to next? Try Crime In Focus: Killer Charm , the story of how a grandmother from suburban Queensland orchestrated the murder of her ex-partner. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Dec 19, 2024•34 min
Someone Richard wasn’t sure would ever talk to him is ready to speak. The church is rocked by the news of Pastor Noel’s death, and questions remain about whether new leadership will create change, or continue with the status quo. Richard returns to ex-members of the GRC, who have found support in each other and their families after the isolation of leaving the church. They’ve discovered the antidote to the GRC’s abuse of power and violence. It’s love. The interviews in this series were recorded ...
Dec 14, 2024•47 min•Season 4Ep. 9
Rumours abound of how Pastor Noel Hollins has used his finances to erase controversies in his church. Richard Baker’s investigation into how the Geelong Revival Centre maintains a tax-free charity status and where it uses its funds takes him to war-torn Sierra Leone. And former GRC Pastor Steve Mills finally goes head to head with Noel Hollins when he tries to protect members of the church. The interviews in this series were recorded during Pastor Noel Hollins leadership of the Geelong Revival C...
Dec 14, 2024•40 min•Season 4Ep. 8
In the Geelong Revival Centre, men are responsible for the entire family’s salvation. If the father does something wrong, his wife and children are at risk of going to hell. We hear from men who have defied the church’s expectations, despite the threat of physical punishment in this life,and eternal punishment in the next. But those who comply also pay a terrible price for their obedience. And Richard is one step closer to understanding Pastor Noel Hollins, when he sees a missed call on his phon...
Dec 14, 2024•41 min•Season 4Ep. 7
As a pastor in the church, Steve Mills watched on horrified as church members shunned or delayed medical care because of Pastor Noel Hollins relentless attacks on science and medicine. When someone is diagnosed with an illness, they are told it is only through prayer—not conventional medicine—that they will be saved. And when people die of treatable illnesses, those left grieving are told they should've “prayed harder”. From the pulpit Pastor Noel’s teachings empower men in the church to interfe...
Dec 07, 2024•40 min•Season 4Ep. 6
The Geelong Revival Centre wants the women in its church to be straight out of Proverbs 31 in the Bible: virtuous, god-fearing, and dedicating her life to her husband and family— and to expect very little in return. Unmarried women can’t approach men to date, and they can’t marry without the Pastor’s permission. Those who are seen to fail as virtuous women find themselves interrogated and watched by members of the church. Men are also punished for their transgressions. But women carry the stain....
Dec 07, 2024•41 min•Season 4Ep. 5
Inside the Geelong Revival Centre teenagers live a double life. They’re given zero freedoms, like small children, but they’re expected to live an adult life of religious devotion while still growing up. Pastor Noel Hollins is at war with the internet, pop music, and socialising outside of the church. He labels them as dangerous, but ex-church members say real dangers lie inside the GRC. Richard Baker uncovers the fallout from growing up inside the GRC, including stories of social ostracism, deep...
Dec 07, 2024•52 min•Season 4Ep. 4
How did Noel Hollins become the leader of the Geelong Revival Centre? A surprising rebellion is hidden in the history of his long and authoritarian rule. Richard Baker unearths Noel’s beginnings and explores some of the stranger beliefs the church preaches, including about Pyramids and the British Royal Family’s connection to Geelong. Even some of the most loyal members of the GRC find themselves questioning the church— with repercussions. Richard realises that if he really wants to understand P...
Nov 30, 2024•42 min•Season 4Ep. 3
In the beachside town of Geelong, most kids look forward to endless summer days, while children in the Geelong Revival Centre wait for the end of days. GRC kids are told they’re always being watched. By their parents, their Pastor, and their God. They expect this constant surveillance, and the threat of violence if they step out of line. Insider recordings of GRC leader Pastor Noel Hollins reveal how he promoted corporal punishment for children, and we learn how church parents were pressured to ...
Nov 30, 2024•35 min•Season 4Ep. 2
A story too big to ignore is drawing journalist Richard Baker back to his home town of Geelong. The chosen people of a strict Pentecostal church claim to have seen miracles happen, and expect to be among the few saved when Armageddon comes. But for some, the Geelong Revival Centre has brought the opposite of salvation. Ex-members are speaking out about the pain, control, and heartbreak they’ve endured under the rule of Pastor Noel Hollins, the leader of the church for the past 50 years. Richard ...
Nov 30, 2024•37 min•Season 4Ep. 1
The end of the world is coming for members of a Geelong Church. It’s been looming for over 50 years. And only the chosen few will be saved. Follow investigative journalist Richard Baker as he returns to his home town to investigate one of Australia’s most hardline Pentecostal churches and the man who led it. This series goes deep inside the secretive group and the disturbing doctrine of Pastor Noel Hollins. Richard Baker has received hundreds of hours of audio recordings that reveal the inner te...
Nov 21, 2024•4 min
In December 2005, Richard Baker published a story about an obscure oil company called Tigris Petroleum, and its ties to Iraq. A few weeks later, Tigris would be linked to the AWB at the Cole inquiry. In this bonus episode, Richard revisits the story, and finally gets some key documents about Tigris released. Featured: Michael Long Alexander Downer Ross Fusca Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Sep 30, 2024•21 min
Richard Baker interviews former Prime Minister John Howard, to find out why Australia went into the Iraq War, and ask how much his government knew about the AWB’s dealings. Featured: John Howard Caroline Overington Alexander Downer Trevor Flugge Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 23, 2024•30 min•Season 3Ep. 9
The Cole inquiry recommends the AWB be investigated, and the Australian Federal Police set up a taskforce. Richard Baker speaks to former AFP officer Ross Fusca and finds out the taskforce mysteriously disappeared. The corporate regulator, ASIC, also attempts to hold the wheat men to account. Featured: Darryl Hockey Ross Fusca Michael Long Trevor Flugge Rod McLeod (voicing Mark Emons) Dan Mullins (voicing lawyer) Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy informati...
Sep 16, 2024•32 min•Season 3Ep. 8
It’s Trevor Flugge and Michael Long’s turn in the witness box, though it couldn’t have come at a worse time. The media is fixated on photos of the pair in Baghdad holding guns, looking like cavalier cowboys. But they won’t be the only powerful men called to give evidence. Featured: Trevor Flugge Michael Long Nonee Walsh Kelvin Thomson Alexander Downer Darryl Hockey Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Sep 09, 2024•30 min•Season 3Ep. 7
The Australian government announces an inquiry into the AWB, with the lawyers hoping to prove the AWB knew it was breaching sanctions. A whistleblower fronts the inquiry to give evidence... in secret. Featured: Trevor Flugge Darryl Hockey Michael Long Anwar Al-Rawi Rod McLeod (voicing Mark Emons) Dan Mullins (voicing lawyer) Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Sep 02, 2024•25 min•Season 3Ep. 6
Saddam Hussein has been found, weapons of mass destruction have not. The reason for the Iraq invasion crumbles, and the world’s attention is turned to corruption in the United Nations Oil For Food Program. The AWB’s dealings in Iraq are about to come under scrutiny from an international investigation. Featured: Darryl Hockey Alexander Downer Caroline Overington Mark Pieth Contact: secretswekeep@sca.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Aug 26, 2024•31 min•Season 3Ep. 5
