The 100 Room Brothel | Catherine De Noire

Apochae Production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the Muscle comments and in this episode I speak with Catherine Denoir, who runs a high class brothel in Western Europe.

I mean one of the customers he came in with like this big lar bear costume.

I think the old one that works with us is around sixteen.

She looks amazing and she's making a fortune.

We have a lot of like hockey.

Players, football players of mma and we are fully boked.

It's around one hundred.

If she feels that she wants to charge one thousand, you know, for half an hour, it's it's up to her.

Thank you for coming on. When I when I seen you in the Daily Mail, I thought this is a story that I want for my podcast. I've worked and looked after a lot of brothels in Sydney so but nothing probably like yours that you look after. Before we get into the nitty gritty, I want to know you as a person first growing up, and then why why you ended up this place and now as you are.

Okay, Well, so I had a pregnant, normal childhood. My father he's a physicist. My mother she's a teacher. She teaches languages.

We kind of moved a lot because of my father's work, and then we kind of it's nice to move in my country where.

I'm currently now. When I was growing up, I was in this high school.

I don't know if you have this in Australia, but we have this high school for.

Like clever kids.

So I used to.

And all my classmates they wanted to be like doctors, lawyers, economists. And I was like, I don't know what I want to do with my life. You know, I knew that I don't want to go into this, into this bath. But then like I just studied, started to study psychology.

I was like, oh, I'm not doing this, you know, it's not for me.

And then I found neuropsychology, so then I decided to get into that. So my internship is one of the biggest hospitals here in UH in my country. And also my bachelor thesis was from neuropsychology.

And then I found this article.

It was way a manager of a brothel and it was called Psychologists and a brothel. They called me Nam but I protect women and so I clicked on it and.

I started to read it. It was just so interesting.

I never thought that they that there is such a career choice.

I knew that the brothels are.

Thing, but I didn't have an experience with text work and the industry, so I kind of knew this is a thing, but I never even think about it. And then I read this article and he spoke about the way how they treat the business as a regular business. The girls are independent contractors, they really treat them a respect, and then he also spoke about the row of sexuality in society. And I finished the article and I was like,

I tracked the company, the company that this guy worked for, and I just wrote them an email.

I was like, I don't have any experience, I don't know the industry, but just please give me a job because this is what I really want to do.

And a few days later they called me.

They wrote that they read this email and they just wanted to invite me for the interview. So I went for the interview, and then I went through like three rounds of the interviews, and at the end I was offered the job and I was twenty two. Now I'm thirty one, So since then I'm there and it's amazing. I love it there.

What's what was that? What was the job role? What was your job role that you were going for?

Well, I applied for the management position, and I didn't have like any experience with managing people. I was twenty two, you know, I didn't have like even any concept of like being a manager. So when I started with this job, the actually told me everything from the beginning.

So you've never worked in anything to do with the sex industry? No, never, So you never managed the place before in your life?

No? I mean I was twenty two, so I don't know much. Twenty two years old?

Who So how did you? So? How did you get into this business? Walked into this this brothel and just go, I've I've got to manage this place. And look after? How many girls are in there? How many girls?

Like around one hundred?

There's one hundred girls? What in one night?

It could be a really when we are fully both, it's around one hundred.

How How fucking big is this profle?

It's it's big, you know, we're actually one of the oldest in the country. So I think that we have the market for like thirty thirty five years now.

One hundred girls, so that means there's a hundred rooms. Yeah, Oh my fucking god. So how the hell did you manage these girls with no experience?

Well, it was. It was very challenging at the beginning because I needed.

To So we we work with a lot of foreigners, so we have a lot of girls coming from Eastern Europe, so Romania, Bulgaria. Uh so I needed to learn how to speak with them, and not just like the the English part, because some of them they don't know very good English, so you needed to so I needed to start speaking like that level of the English. And I also needed to needed to learn how to support them, and because it can be very challenging to be a

When you earn like two thousand uros.

And everything is okay, and then you get like you're very chitty night when you earn like one hundred year old and you're very shitty about yourself. So I needed to learn how to support them and like what do they need when they tell me.

Hey, I need your support right now. So I kind of it was like a huge process.

I think it took me like five years until I was like very confident about the role. And also there are there are situations with the customers and imagine that there's like twenty two years old coming in and shes the situation.

Maybe the guy he's like.

Fifty sixty maybe drunk, and it was my it was my job to the situation. So it really took me like quite a lot a lot of the time too to be very confident about it all.

But okay, so there's a reception that without because I know you're very secretive about where this place is. Okay, so I'm just going to try and vision and walk through this place. Receptionist. There's a receptionist, Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, there's a reception and when you want to when you want to go in, you need to go through reception so that I'm my colleague and they will sell you the ticket and also.

Like check you you need to sell your ticket.

Oh well, so there's like entrance fee. It's like twenty euros.

It's very for for hours, so you can always like come back, so okay.

And so that gets you way into into a waiting room.

Uh no, no, there's a there's a bar and the ip rls and like lounge.

Oh so the girls come in and parade themselves for the for the clients.

No, no, no, the girl, the women, they don't do this. They have their own rooms and they work in front of the room. So they either stand in front of the room or they just chill chill in the room and the clients just like well.

Walk around the rooms. A hundred fucking rooms. So this guy's walked in and he's gonna walk a hundred rooms till he finds the guilt that he wants the book. Oh my fucking god, it's.

Like a it's like a candy store, I mean kind of yeah, yeah.

Jesus, it's okay. So then he picks the lady that he wants. Then where he an hour, half an hour, whatever the time he wants to do.

Yeah, this is up to them because we as a management, we are never part of the business between between the girls and the customers are independent in contructor and they can charge the amount that they want. They their own like, they can set their own prices, they can decide about the services. So not everyone you know who's working with us do full service, you know the full sex. They

And when they see the girl that they like, we just go to speak with her.

So we as a management we are never part of the deal between between the girls.

So the girls, the girls just pay you rent exactly.

They just pay the rent and that are like no other fees, no percentages. This is what you do.

I want to go back to what you just said about the squirting.

What that.

So the guy just goes in and watches her.

Squirt exactly exactly, and she makes a lot of money with this.

He doesn't touch it, nothing, no sexual actions.

Mostly not mostly not. She has this like very big dildos.

He likes and she likes to to make the.

Anal for the guys.

So basically she likes to fund the guys in the ass with those dildos.

Oh, listen, listen. I've I've had a lot of girls in the sex industry come on this podcast. Nine out of ten the ass is brought up. Now, I just don't know why it gets brought up and why does but the everything has been distinct in the backside. Is that over there? Over there too?

It's not actually so common. I mean, fasting is very very extreme. It's on the extreme end of the spectrum. So most of the guys they actually request for like anal, you know, they want to try to bet with.

Yeah, this is this is very common.

So they often come to come to the brothels because they don't want to try this with their partners because it might achieve the dynamics between the So.

They often come to the brook to just pay for the service.

It's it's very common fantasy of the guys, at least here in Europe.

I don't know about. Maybe they didn't tell you, you know, I don't know.

So how daunting was it for you on your first shift when you worked there, your first night working there? Mm hm, And you've never managed before in your life. You're managing our one hundred girls. Do you have any help doing that or was it just no, no, no.

I mean I have like a senior manager to basically show me everything. And it took me like three months until I was capable of at least doing the shift fully, you know, the responsibilities kind of stuff.

So I needed to learn everything.

The first shift was like really to see what this is all about, to maybe say hi to some girls, to see the systems that we use, because we use like a lot of IT systems, you know, like a CRM reports, those kind of stuff. So I needed to at least like I have a sort of concept like how I'm going.

To be working.

So that was the first and I remember I was like extremely tired because we were during the night. So our shift starts at six sorry seven pm and we finished six am in the morning. So I remember like being extreme retired, Like it was something completely different.

So what what happens? There's a one hundred rooms right because I'm trying to I'm trying to pitch it now because it's this This place is so secretive. I've looked up and you do not want to tell anybody where it is. How the fuck I would find it? I don't know. I'm trying to pitch it. Is it an old place? It must be like an old hotel or something.

It's not at.

All, but I mean it's like three years old. So I don't know if you consider.

This if I'm trying to I'm trying to pitch it, like a hundred one hundred bedrooms plus rooms like service rooms and all like that. How the hell, How the hell do you keep account for all them girls or what if they need help?

So every room has at least one panic button. We have our own security. We can call the police anytime if there is any problem because we operate clearly, so we don't need to hight so. But the most important thing is the arm the panic button. So the girls are instructed to the said if they will feel the situation is like going, you know, not in a way that they would like to or if there's like any kind of like heated arguments that they don't want to

Press it for nothing then find.

Yourself in a situation when it's very hard for you to handle it.

But it didn't happen so often. I mean the alarm situation.

It's it happens like one twice a month, but it's like nothing. The most the most situations, the most common one is that the guy ins the service is over and he doesn't want to leave, so he's like, I'm not going anywhere. I would like to stay here more. And she's like, yeah, well you can, but you need to pay, and he's like, I don't you I want to stay here.

So this had the situation the or the guy.

Falls asleep after you know, the service and she doesn't want to wake him up or something, so she just so.

You've never had any kind of trouble ever since you've been working there.

I've been there nine years, almost nine years, and since I'm there, it's like never anything serious happened, which is like part of it is because we are too big for something serious to happen. Because if you if you want to harm a sex worker, you will aim for independent ones because she's there alone, there is like no security, the police. It will be like very hard for her to call the police. But since we are you know, we have the security pending buttons, the police are there

How many how many securities do you have in that building?

So we have like one team of security guys and usually it's like five.

Or four of them.

Three if it's like very slow night, like Monday is Tuesday, those kinds of slow night.

Am I am? I allowed to ask what country this this is in?

Or you know your location?

So you are secretive with Before I get this question, how do if I'm overseas and I want to find this place, how the hell do I find it?

I think you will find it, just like by walking in this city.

It's very big, you know. As it said, I don't. I don't.

I don't even know what countryting.

Exactly, So how so how do I find it? Will definitely find it.

Yeah, if you will be in the capital of this of this country, you will definitely find it.

You don't. But what, Okay, I'll ask you this then? Why why so secretive with it?

Well?

One of the reasons is that I like to protect the privacy of the workers and the employees of the company because I'm very open about what I do, but not everybody is, so it's open about what they do. So I wouldn't, so like I don't want to place the the the sex workers that works with us to the situation when there would be a guy you know and be like, ah, you are the girl from the instagram.

Oh okay.

And also like when I when I started with the Instagram, I just did it for myself. I was feeling like a little bit burned out, and then it kind of got big. And at one point I was like, I need to tell this to the owners because I don't want to do this as.

A secret from them.

And they were like super that you know I have this thing. But they told me like, look, you can film in the in the club, you can film like anywhere, but just disclose the location.

That's it.

Okay, So I'll go. I'll go to my question that I was gonna ask. With this property and this business being so big in this country, in this city, has any kind of gangsters try to take over this place, not have any affiliation, have any affiliation of it. The only reason I ask is a lot of brothels over here are run by on the world figures. Okay, So that's why I'm asking the question, Like gangsters and all like that run brothels here.

No, I mean, we don't do this in here.

I don't hang out with other managers from different clubs. I know, at least like one of them from different club he was arrested for drug dealing.

So this is like one of the reasons why I don't hang out with them so much.

But you know, our company, when we started or when the owners added with this business, they.

Decide to do it differently.

So this is one of the reasons why us as a managers, we need to have psychology, like psychology degree, so we do this pretty differently than the other club.

And since we are so.

Big, you know, there's like no no gangsters type of the thing going on.

So the only reason I asked you that, as I said, a lot of brothels and strip clubs in Australia even in the UK, as I know, are run by mafia on the wealth figures gangsters. Yeah, that's why I was asking, Wow, if you.

Would be the owners, they are like such a sweet guys, like you wouldn't never tell that they run a brothel.

Wow, So okay, then how do you stop drugs coming into your venue?

We actually never had a situation when there would be like some dealers coming in because we would notice, you know, if there would be a customer and he would sell drugs to other customers, we would pretty much notice. You know, we have like CCTVs everywhere. Also the security they throughout of the night, they just chicky place. Also the women they are when we are accepting them, we always tell the it's like, if you want to take the drugs, don't do it in here, because we really you really

You know what, you must have the most professional run brothel in the world, because that's insane, because every brothel, I know, every night life person who owns a nightclub or anything in Australia has dealers coming in and having have them dealers have workers in that venue running for you. I can't believe no one is doing in your venue. Oh my god.

I mean I remember there was this one situation.

It's like many years ago, we had this bartender and he was like very sweet person, and then we like after after one week, we found out that he was trying to deal the drugs there. So then we just tell him like, sorry, men, but you can't work here. This is the thing that we don't want to.

Oh yeah, so how much?

How much?

Is?

Tell me the rates of the girls. What's what's the most a girl can charge in that venue?

It's up to them. We we never tell them how much did she charge?

So if she feels that she wants to charge one thousand, you know, for half an hour, it's it's up to her.

But who's your who's your most expensive girl?

And then it really depends. So we have like two types of the of the sex workers basically. So one of them, like one of the type is that there are sex workers that really aim for quantity. So they are fine with having like thirty guys per night because they don't to yeah, the guys.

But these are like very short and quick services. They actually for this, they don't want to.

Spend more than thirty minutes before any of those customers, so they just basically make the guy finish and that's it and they don't want to have like any longer like services, you know. And then we have a then we have different girls and they aim for like one two clients per night because they are really good with pick the company, doing the conversations, out for a drink.

Yeah they would, yeah, they would. So what kind of clientele are you are you getting to that venue? What? What's the what are you looking at? Like you're looking at lawyers. I know you're saying that regular guys go in there, but what is that There must be a clientele that like it's so high end, a high class you'll get hills and your venue, it must pull in a lot of lawyers, doctors, I don't know, government people.

I mean it does, but we also have you know, since we are so big, every like Friday Saturday shift there is like five hundred people coming in, so.

Yeah, one hundred people.

Yeah, yeah, So there are.

Like like the clients are like divers group, so that are like lawyers, they are construction workers.

Sometimes we have like disabled people.

Sometimes to have women coming in, So it's like very diverse, so there's not like one type.

Have you ever had a client tell that it's coming in that you need to hide that you can't let the public see you have many of them?

Yeah, not many like these these clients, they usually tend to stay on like independent with the independent with the independent escorts, so they don't like to hang out in such.

A crowded places.

But sometimes we do and we have like how this this called like a secret back door?

Yeah, us to enter the club.

So what's the fame most famous person you've had, like without naming him, I mean we.

Have a lot of like hockey players, football players or MMA hockey hockey players.

Now see now now I'm trying to think about which country this could be now because you've said hockey, so I'm trying to think it because hockey is not big all over the world.

I mean it's pretty big here in Europe.

What's the wea theest thing you've come across working in this industry.

I mean one of the customers he came in with like this big polar bear costume and he wanted to.

Play Eskimo role play.

So I think that was very beautif yeah, it was really like huge ward, very costume.

Yeah.

Yeah, as this as working there ever changed you in a way where I don't take this strong way, but you ever thought this this is a bit different.

You've never wanted to try yourself now just managing well.

I don't think I would be a good sex worker. Actually I think I'm a better manager.

That's a good answer.

Every work kind of changes you.

So now I can definitely appreciate more the relationships because before, before like joining the sex industry as a manager, I had this very not narrow, but definitely like more narrow vision of the the relationships. The monogam is relationship. People are cheating each other, that's another thing. But now I can three. Now I can really appreciate, you know, open relationship and the people that are thinking the relationship and there's like no sex involved, but they still have each other.

Yeah, and neither girls who work there or rent rooms have they ever had any partners where they found out that they're working behind their partners back and turned up at the venue.

Uh.

So we have a girls and they have husbands. Sometimes the husbands they know, sometimes they don't.

But I think I never experienced the situation when the husbands would find out because the girls they are like very good at conceiving it.

So I think I never experienced this husband would find out.

Wow, what about like as the girls, like a lot of the girls they're in the industry. These girls who are in the industry that there to either make money to get to either get out the industry and make for the better for themselves or then you've got some girls who make the money and spend it as soon as they get it. M So, do you have any counselors like who talk to them to give them advice? You know, so you know, like they're making a lot of money a night and a week, so you know,

Actually not something that we experience because the girls they need to pay the rent, but any to pay print in advance. So it kind of you need to have some sort of like planning around it because some part of your income you need to already invest to pay the rooms. And so we we as a place. I mean, I know that I work in a very privileged place, so we don't we don't meet a lot of women

Don't know, first or something.

It's too much, you know, and they are like, no, I wanted to keep I'm so happy, so whatever, you know, But like usually they are like very responsible with the money because like working with fast means that you also need to have this planning ar ound money because you can't spend it because if you mean, you can, but if you spend like everything, then you don't have the money to pay another rent.

So so, what's what's the average age of the of the girls? They're like, what do they start at eighteen? To walk to age?

No, I would say, like the average average age in which they start it's like twenty.

Five, okay, but I like average is like around thirty something like this.

I think the old that works way fast is around sixty.

And she looks amazing.

She looks amazing and she's making a fortune.

What what's your goal? Now you've been there for ten years, not nine years, sorry, nine years? Are you still enjoying it like you did the first time you have a work?

It?

Is it still that you still enjoying it?

It's it's still good.

As I said, I was feeling like a little bit burned out because after so many years, you start to feel like everything is the same. There's like not too many things that would surprise me anymore so, and I know that I can handle like everything, so it's.

Not challenging so much. But I still want to stay in the industry.

I can't imagine myself working as a manager in a bank or something.

I find it like very.

I don't want to sound mean, but I just find it like very you know, boring.

Would you ever open it? Would you ever open your own brothel?

Not?

Not?

Probably not because it's a lot of paperwork.

You know.

I like to be a manager, you now.

I like to be around people and I can see the owners what they do.

It's like paperwork. So this is this is something that I want to do.

You know. I still want to stay in touch with the with the people in the industry.

But I can.

Imagine myself like having some sort of collexuury swingers party. This is something that I will do in the future, maybe not so far. I want to stay in the industry. I can't imagine myself by going to some different industry.

Wow, what about what about over like because it's one hundred girls? Is it just is it girls? Or is it and you said lesbians before? But is there men there or not? Like men selling themselves? It's just just emails?

Yeah, No, it's just it's just women.

Wow.

Okay, I remember that we used to have like a few trans people.

That was cool.

They weren't make so much money as they were used to.

Wow, it's very interesting, like what you've said, like like what we've been, especially how different it is compared to the the brothels that I know in this country, Like I can't believe how how well run yours is that it has no like especially I'm amazed with there's no gang officiation with with your place. That's so weird because like virtually every place I know, there's somebody in the underworld who has something to do with a brothel.

I mean to me, it's very weird to imagine that I will be connected to some mafia like gangs.

That's that's amazing because that's the first I've ever heard of a brothel, never been a social But you know, as I said, maybe it's it's different in every country. So well, thank you for coming on the podcast like that. That was a pretty amazing And you know what, that's opened up my eyes to how brothels are differently because I know brothels in the UK and definitely no, they are not legal. Yes I know, yes, I know, but I've never I've never come across a brothel yes that

So?

Is that like and there's a bar downstairs, but is there anything else? Well, thank you very much for coming on. That was very interesting. I actually enjoyed that. Thank you for coming on here.

Thank you, thank you, Okay, thank you m m h.