Helicopter Prison Break | John Killick

contribute to it. But I think I know a lot of people have had tough lives of mood that they have gone on and gone to night school, they've gone to unions, and they haven't they haven't finished in jail or anything like that, but I will say this that I think the thing that lacked in my life, and I think it's like in the lives of a lot of young people, particularly ones are get in trouble, is a mentor. I really think that if you've got a mentor when you're younger, and this is what we should

be looking at more and trying to rehabilitate kids. We haven't got the answers to it, particularly now with drugs net. But I didn't have a mentor. I was adopted. I was born in the middle of a Second World War. It was a dysfunctional family. Father he was a pretty good fighter. He's bout my main champion, well away champion in nineteen thirty two travies. That doesn't seem much been in Bealman was a tough steary in Sydney. To somebody

said to me, I've spoke the old box. He said, if he was cheating at Balmona in nine and thirty two. He's pretty tough. And he used to when he got drunk kids throw his weight around, pick on people, pick fights. He had us terrorized. I remember sometimes my brother, me and my mother were hiding under the house at house at two am in the morning, we're walking the street. It's too scared to go in. My mother even gave

me sleep and tallers to slip into his beer. And you know, if you had caught me doing that, well, and so I was taking ris sleeping, then when do you think of it? I mean, imagine what he had have done if you had caught me. But he had my mother a nervous wreck, you know, just beused her all the time, terrible names, and sometimes the neighbors run.

we had somebody lie about it. Anyway, my mother took her own life when I was seven. I blamed Dad for it, but it was partly the responsibility the banks and what happened the bank four clothes. We had a pretty good house on that. He tried to borrow more money he would have went okay to get and what happened. They forced him to do it through their own little firm called Custom Credit, which was a credit company and charged about three times the interest with the banks did,

and that that forced to lose at home. We finished with the crappiest house in fair for Mom was embarrassed, shamed on it and anyways took her own life. And I blamed the banks too. I was really doing it on banks about what happened then the first night, I just said I'm leaving. When she died that same day, he couldn't believe I was leaving, my father and I said she will fall. What happened? I told him she over those slip tells and.

pieces in her bloody phone. It's going way back those phones, and jumped on the bike and went down in and you wouldn't believe it. The phone have been vandalized. So we didn't have a phone. We didn't have a car. So this is why I grew up workship at the shol I think, and if we'd have been rich and had these things would have said a life. So I had to go to the next phone about half a mile the way. I rang our doctor I the dockdown

and he wouldn't come to phone. The wife come to the phone by bye hours, half two in the morning and and she said he's asleep, he's not coming, and I said, look, she's really sick, and she just hung up. And I knew it was because we owed the money. We owed the doctor money because my mom was always and he's the one who gave us a sleep and tell us. So I was dirty about that. So what I got to know what I did. I didn't have any coins left. I rang again through through the information

sort of thing or whatever. It wasn't those days through line, Oh yes, Rember, I think it was that one I won through or something, and they helped. They put me through it to a docktown. It took a couple of minutes. He came straight away, but then he called an ambulance. All by the time ambulance got there, she was nearly dead. That they got to the hospital on it, they couldn't save her. And I always felt, you know, if we'd have been on them get us straight away to hospital.

We didn't have a car, yeah, and you know the stuff around with the phones and all that. We didn't even have a phone, so that the banks and yeah, yeah, I just had a chip on my should. And then so I left, didn't have a lot of money, booked into a bird into a rooming house and didn't have a lot of money. So I shared it with a guy. And it's a big guy, a wrestlant, a big, strong mustley guy. And next thing he's trying to rape me. And I didn't knowing about it about that I was

a book. He's sort of kidn never done any and so buddy, it was pretty fit. You know. I just played tennis, running and ride bike, so it was pretty fit. But he was a lot more powerful me. But anyway, he got the message and dropped off, and I was pretty outraged and said I'm getting out of it. I'm going to another room. And he apologized, and I thought he was okay. He apologized, said it never happened again. He get suited. I was struggling mentally, and so what

he did he sort of came along with me. A few nights, played played tennis. I stayed there in a different room. I did go in a different room. But he was a crook and he told me he had five different bank books, all the different names. And even in those days, people were ripping of security. He was. He was ripping off security, getting dull, and he shamed me. He's based about it. He was going to the Wrestaurant Championships and Queens and I said, look, can you sign

a thing for me? And I want to buy a new tennis rack. And I was split and I got to get on terms. He said yeah. Then he just gave me his signature, and when he was leaving, I saw him. He packed all his bank books and I stole him somehow and I got the case. I grabbed one of the bank books and he didn't know and he said off. I waved him off in the can

give you a try of fuck man. I went up and forwards seniors and practice and practice parent got really good at it, but through all the withdrawal forms in the wastepaper, and I'd moved on a different spot too, and I went and moved from Berwi to Stratfield.

and gave me the money. I walked out there, but when I got home, the cops wereiting, and the landlord lady came in and cleaned the room saw withdrawal for us, and she realized something was wrong, so they grabbed me and took me to I wouldn't tell them where I lived, right, and I told him nothing, So they put me in Albion Street Boys. I was there at night, but somehow they found out who Dad was and got me. He came and came and buy me out. So that was the first time I went the job, but went home

for a night with Dad. An left again and they was hooked up with some kids a bit older me. You know. They taught me to shop lift stuff like that, and we were going to have it. We're going in some of those big department stores, just grabbing stuff and walking out and not even running out, just woken out if a story teach had come. One blake was chasing me and I thought it was going to be a heart attack. I mean, they couldn't catch you. It was so easy in those days. I mean now you've got

cameras everywhere. Ye, But yeah, we got away a lot. We'd go into we'd go into cafes and just to all the big merles and run out. This big Greek guy. I caught my mate once, give him a thump and took his jumper off. It was my jumper, you know. And I went back later and paid the merl about a week later and said, give me the jumper back. Good, give me ban He said, your friend, your friend, bad man. But I'd run away too, and thought he thought I was a good guy because I'd come back. Yeah. Look,

look it's just what happened. It was in Eviti all that time. I was going to we'll get caught. We did a break and on a place this city had come from Blainey Country. My mate introduced her. Look he's he works s fort of pm. That that was like straight of person those days. He said. He delivered the mile to halfle Molly's place. Now half a Molly was champion jog at the time. He rade a horse call burmer At won fifteen straight and it just this gout everybody.

The rumor was at Alfle money backed all these horses, and you went. They weren't allowed a bit. So he had bags boxes the money under his bed.

walked along. Berwin caught a train. But the idiot went to a hot shop the next day and this firing you wouldn't leave it happened. He went to a hog shop, tried to honk the stuff, said he'd lost a lot of weight and that they were his clothes. Well, you know, the pawn brokers like they called the cops, especially in those days like that one. So they got him and he said we made he's give us something and said we made him. Really, So they got us here and

they just said, look, we're letting him go. He is about influence. He's on a country board from Blainey, you know. And that was it. So we got frowing and they went out the Long Bay. It was pretty tough. I mean Long Bay. I was only seven eight and shouldn't have been there. I got in a fight the first week I was there, German guy playing. I was a really good chess player even then I'd been toured by Russians and that's pretty good. And its German guy played

in playing for just for a jar, honey. But that that's that's important. It's hard to get, especially in those days. You can only get on a buyout three a year. And he's young, got the chessboard and whacked me over to here with a chess board. Yeah, and so we're into it. And my old man had taught me to fight. I could handle this off. Yeah, I was fast and fit. But so I got best of him. So this old guy came out of me. I was sharing to sell

of him and my mate. He said, listen, he said, you've done well, and the screws let it go with me. In those days, if you weren't bloody killing somebody, he said, Look he said, I don't get carried away. He said, he's guys, and he said, it's good you've done that, because young guys were getting raped in there. At the young guy got raped in the shower, he said, some of these guys. But you want to hear me on her back, he said, I'm telling you. He said, so,

don't get carried away. And he was right. There were some tough guys here, and he said, don't go on to sell alone woman, don't go stay free out with ars, etcetera, et cetera. And he just gave me the grand rules. But what I did learn I learned the code, you know, the criminal code. It was there three months, and I learned. You know that you don't give anybody up. It's the wrong thing to give anyone up. And if somebody's kicking somebody in their head and bashing them, you walk away.

The criminal code it turns our normal ethics upside down. And when you subscribe to it, it's hard to unsubscribe to it when you step back in a normal world, when you've got to step back in and live a normal life. And so many either today, so many young ones hooking enterities, and it's even worse now with drugs. There were no drugs when I was there those days, there were no drugs, and so anyone will really give someone up. They go on protection. I remember I went

to Golden and there was only one going protection. You go to Golden now half and that's the fact. So I mean, it's a logistic night, you know, administrative nightmare. I think to try and run golb and I wouldn't like to be trying to route it because you've got the protection. You've got what they've done now they split it up. You've got you've got the Indigenous yard, then

you've got the you got the Muslim yard. Then you've got the Ousi Asians, Osio Islands protections, protection from protections. Then over there got this big wing protection from protection from protection. And you've got thirds and pedophiles here. And the murders said, then you've got super max. I mean, and if you're going to a visit, you're not allowd if a protection is coming, you're not allowing going out at the same time, So you might be waiting an

hour if you visit. I mean, it's just just a shocking set up and the floor and that is they had about seven or eight killings in Garblin in the nineties. They called it the Killing film. So it was that bad go it's just they're coming and do the mustard. Somebody be covered up with a blanket. And there was one case these Asians turn on his guy and one little Asian just run up. There's a big tough going run up behind him, pinned his arms and then the

other was running. He fell on the ground about fifty six flty stad was in before you think he's dead before hit the ground, and I mean, I don't care. You're not going to cape with it, you know. And so a lot of tough guys got killed standing over him, in on you, a few of them. But that was before I hit with with a helicopter which goes through it. But in those days, jar was tough.

The meals were terrible, absolutely terrible. No phone calls, so you lost contact everybody. If you got to visit, you're like enough to get a visit. It was you had the white grading between the screw stand right next year there's a twenty minute visit once a fortnite. I mean, relationships can't exist under that. You can't if you write a letter, if you're one page letter, you have to write a pen and ink and you take that page down. You only do one a week. Shot that the screw

he'd go up now going right. If you didn't like it, say how the hell you wouldn't say to yourself? I just never going back there. But I didn't know. I was the opposite. I don't know why, but I was the opposite. I was dirty, I had chip on my shot. I sort of blaming everyone but myself, this shouldn't have happened to me. Fuck them, I'll start robbing banks. I decided it was going to become a bank robber just the well, not that time. People told me, you know

that there weren't many bank robbers at the time. There weren't. But what I did. I came back in. I tried to escape, you know, I just turn it on and try to escape from bapist. There were four was going to go and and two cops showed a time sign of the times because we're going in a court. They didn't handcuffs, And I said, three young ones and the other one and women caught for Robin the Western stores. They come up got me. I only wasn't in Bold that they come and got me. I was going with

this guy's sister in Orange had gone up there. I was digging potatoes. Dad was proud of me from diggingmation. You know. You finally they said, finally was somebody I was digging potatoes. You know, that was the attitude of my father. He always said, you know, you're the son of a working man. He's got a cart. Shit do it. But you know, so I was going with the guy. I sist they went to town. They came back and Sydney about this Western stores. And so they had a guy, Taffy,

he's about thirty five. Two young guys about my age that I was friends. I was with barbering and they said, come on, let's go, and we're doing the West stores. She said, don't go. I said, look, everything's final soon tomorrow. I never never saw it again. Jump jump in the car. We went. They lowered me down from the top of the thing. We got about I think it was twenty pounds with a gear jeweling stuff. It was pretty good. That's a lot of money in those days, nine to

sixty pounds. He took them bloody, maybe three four hundred fairs and dollars. But we had the car loaded. But guess what, it ran out of petrol coming to lift cat and I couldn't believe it. And then he tied it was stylen car. That's why he couldn't fill up. And in those days was a different setup. They used to come and do it themselves in the station and they were siphon and petrol, and the cops came. They got us buddies. So we went to the lift batist. It was pretty tough, and so I used to look,

we can escape, and that was the plan. The four should run with only two cops. But when it happened, the old the old sides in his front. I just shoved him and he stumbled forward, and one of my mates, when I helped him up, you're right. And I tooked off, and the other I said, good luck, Johnny. All the other cops come after me, and he's fired shots at me, and I heard him, and I just knew I'd read somewhere that if you hear it, you know I haven't been hit because the speed is ound. So I ripped

off my pullover. I was really dirt and the others not coming, and ripped off the pillover. I ran about about a half a mile away and sirens of me. I thought, if I lay load until dark and still a pushbike and go, that's what I was going to do. So I hid in a chuck pen, which I thought was a win an idea, but the old lady wouldn't believe. Chatting lady, I must thought I was trying to pincerchuck. She heard it and she saw me in there, and then were being quiet and down and when the cops

they were walking past. She's gone there. They got me. They give me a bit of a hide and two and then they put me in this black cell. And this caused a big stink later at the Royal Commission because I testisfied about it and what they did. They stripped me off, put me in a cell and blank.

You can't scend inside it. And you go in into you went into a boot division, which is the men's division, opened up one cell, coming a little carroll down and open up others on this talley pitch blake can't see it. Left me there in the middle of winter, no clothes, bread and water for two days. That was it. And I mean I was doing that. That really tough me out. It really tough me up because I remember walking up

and down. But I've always been an optimist, you know, and I thought, well, you know, but this is the best they can do. I was walking up down here acoustic great and ourselves. I started singing. I thought, singing all these songs that sounded good. Girls could see me now.

training with pistol. Label had pistols. People didn't rules they had pistols, and and they used to go to training so that they were pretty good shots, probably better shots than the crops. So guys knew if they ran in there, they're taking a risk getting shot. And the only bank rollers I knew about apart from America, like the famous one was stilling to you, was dead. Willie Sutton was dead, the famous ones. And then we had Simmons and new Comb that robbed the bank, and Simms robbed the bank

in nineteen fifty nine. Then they escaped in nineteen fifty nine. It's about October and just the biggest manhn't Astralian history. Sim and Newman they're still writing books about this book. Can just come out about it now. And they actually went when I told I went into John in nineteen sixty they were is Simmers and Newham just been caught. They had him in in they had him there in the observation and the guys near here said they were flogging him every night. They could hear me on out there.

They used to run in every night and there because the screw got killed. What happened they when they escaped, They got over to the Long Bay and they watching John Wain Weston and they cut the bars and the screws were watching the movie too, and they got out, got over the wall and went to Amy Planes which the minimal security one of the burning before broke in where they knew the food was and the weapons and screws sprung and there was a struggle and sued and

the screw got killed. They killed him there, so so you imagine the impetus of the man hunt. They got Newgom Early Simmons skimming my head around his bare feet in the National Park out near Wyle, and they even brought track and dog special track of dogs from South Australia to catch him. And he's a real good looking guy and he become a bit of a folk hero, which is ridiculous, but that's the media. If the media play something up and I was down in Melbourne. I

was seven and I was down in Melbourne. I was going with an Austrian girl and they're all talking, all of her and the friends talking about Simmons even down there. And then my girlfriend said he could put his shoes under my bed. Shaddy, you know, you know he said, bank Robberie's a killer fan. I'm a good guy. Yeah, you just kids standing on it. When you're young. You don't understand this stuff. But that they can't glorify that stuff. And anyway, Simmons was found hanged in nine and sixty

six with his hands tight on his back. A lot of people say that he was murdered by the screws, and well they think that they just run in and killed him. And he was a draft and he got flogged every night up there for a few years. It was a bad place. They had a Royal commission in the graft and you've probably heard about it. But he made friends with guy called Darcy Dugan up there. He was very Australian, very famous bank robber escape and Darcy

there's books out about him too. He's probably the most famous escape of all the bankweyer. Simmons introduced Darcy to his sister. His sister was a journalist. She finished up marrying Darce, didn't didn't last very long. What happened is she forced an inquiry in the Simmons death in sixty six. But they said, no natural, I don't know how to Well, you can get your hands on yourself, but those sort of things you're never going to win. Those sort of

sort of things nobody cares rightly. Anyway, he was a murderer and he was escaping in a bank robbin and so that that story on Simmon and new But the thing is the one of the ones I knew about Darcy Durgan doing life, Siman's doing life. Why would I want to rob banks? But I didn't because and they got guns because I thought I looked around, no cameras in those days. They were a push out. He just walked in, pointed a gun, said want the money and

run out. And then if you're unlucky and they're going to come after your guns.

a bloody whole heap of money. Every Sunday night they cleaned, they put train comes past night, they pick up the manor. I said, to be at least one thousand pounds that's the money, maybe more. He said, no, that's been hard, he said. He said, look trust me, he said, drunkle be easy. He said, Friday nights, he said, they all but paid. So it actually happened. We're waiting there and in Fairfield Park near Villa. Were there near Caramera and sure you just wanted to leave. A drunk comes along.

I never he was whistling, singing the blues. I'll never forget it. And we run out and my mate said, come on, give us your money, Pop, give us your money, and he said, he said, what what what's this? He said, a hold up, give us your money and he said okay. He said, if he's wanted, and he said, but he said, you know what's going to happen, And I said, it's going to happen. He said, my land lady is tough and if I don't pay the rent, she'll touch me out. And she said, and I've got nowhere to go. I

said you sure? You said yees, so I'd call him and I said, listen. I said, we can't take you. He said, well, look we'll just take harm this man. I said, now we can't take his money many so we come over, gave him his walk back, said it's all right, you go. He said no, no, no, I can't leave. You said, you boys, you risk jail for this. He said, you take the money. We said no, no, we're arguing. Take some money. And in the end him said, look,

I take the fan and go. You know. He said, all right, boys, or he said, but you two of the nicest boys I ever met. And he said you know, he said you got a heart, you got a heart, and he just left. And that was that was the only time I've ever got in bold and that's fairing. And because I thought this could be my father coming from you. I mean, he's a drunk iron give me a break. But he wasn't scared scared. He's just give us some money if you want it. But I'm going

to get tossed out. And that's the true story. You wouldn't make something like that. And so what happened. I talked Jim and I said, look, let's rob the railway that I'm talking about. We'll get affairs at least. So he said, all right. Well, the idea was when the

train came on Sunday nights. They came and they had a big safe on a train because I'd watched it in the in the in the stations would make up the money, put in a leaver, little lever patch that it'd come out of it as the train come through. It was always between eight and nine o'clock at night. They'd hand it to him. And I think that was all the weekend taken. And I thought, what we'll do before the train comes. We'll run in there and we'll

stick him up and get the lever thing. But you wouldn't believe it across on the other side of a station. And Jim saw it is gone biggest score about six foot four huge, and Jim said, I know. He said. I said, look, we got a gun. He said, doesn't work. It doesn't work, which is right, it was didn't work. And he said if he wakes up, it's not a real gun. He said, he will kill us. I said, no, come on, John, I said. He said, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I said, I'm going

to do it. I said, we come to this front, I'm going to do it. So he waited, Jim waited, and I went in. I went into a toilet and the train. I thought, what I'll do is wait the train before I was going to do it. So when the train comes, people get off, and then he comes out, gets your tickets and then goes back. And I was going to grab him as he went back. So I went into the toilet and the train train was coming. I went into a toilet and I had a bag with the gun in it. And I'll never forget this.

I was going to put the mask on it. And there were three toilets there. They had a little cure because you put a penny in them and it opened the thing. And I noticed one was a jar, and I thought that someone's in there, you know. So I just just about to put the mask on and opened this little boat with a suit come out and he said, Gray, you wouldn't believe us out and I said, he said, and he came up real close and he was dressed in a suit. He said, guess what just happened? I said, no,

what what what happened? I cursed on it. He's going to I can't do this now. I don't know what happened. And he said, A bloake just sucked the boy off for a pound note. I hated this guy. I said, you know, well that that's it is. I was, you know, and he said, and his eyes were glistened, and he said, would you have done it for a pound note? I said no, no, I wouldn't have and went to go and he said for two pounds? I said, I whipped out pistol and how did you want to suck this

for nothing? I put it in his mouth, you know. I pushed him in into I was getting there, and so I robbed him and he was trembling all that, and it turned out he had a lot of money under his collar. Money had it all wrapped around there. So I got about fifty quid off him, and they they engaged in those days, used to have to take risking tours. They hadn't nowhere to go, and so I used to hide their money. And so around now, I didn't tell Jim, I've got the money. So he's telling him.

But while I had the guy on the toilet, the bloody runway guy come in. They have a piss. So I had the guy in the toilet, so he feels and I'm going to shoot him. Was a toy gun and he's tremblin and the guy this big guys and a piss. Well, god knows what would have happened if you had got one. What's happening. We got away with that, But it made me realize that if I'm going to do any I'm going to go and I'm going to run, I'm going to rob a bank. I'm going to take

a risk and rob a bank. All that petty stuff.

I want to do a robbery. You're interested, he said. I said a bank, and he turned white. You know you just didn't lob bank, He said, Oh, I always wanted to wrong the bank. He said, this is your chance. But on the way there, we're not to eye knocked the car at Stratfield f J Holing. You pretty easy. Used to do them with silver paper on your edition and got taught this by kids. And we're going and he needed a scotch, then said to stop and getting

a scotch. Yeah, And by the time we got to County Heights, I could see he just didn't want to do it. So I said, look what we'll do. I said, you going to pretend you're a customer. I said, I'll come in behind you. Stick the bank up, I said, and I'll order you to jump the county you cleaned the teller's rules out, and then we'll run off. I'll tell you to come with me and they'll think you're

a customer. And said, if you ever catch here, I said, just tell them, and everybody were backing up, so he said, so he went in ahead. He did, and he called the manager. I wanted to manage her out anyway, and I put them by a clowns mask. I ran in and I bought this. In those days, you can just go and buy twenty two rifles and stuff. You just

going by them. Didn't need to idea down to George Street and so easy ran in there and was so nervous my left knee was shaken and the gun went off into the floor, just bo them into the flour. I'll never forget the sound of it. It's just like an explosion, you know, and we're all unshot, including me. And then I pretended self instinct, you know, I pretended reloaded and pointed at the manager and I said give me a gun. He said, I said give me a gun.

And I walked up the point in the empty rifle at him and he's going and I said, grab it by the hand. He passed to me by the hand. First I said grab it by the barrel, and he grabbed the gun by the barrel, ham into the Royal gun. The police were screaming later because they said they had me calm down, but in that situation you haven't got a cool mind. He didn't notice that. Probably it was a single shot, yeah, rather than going off and why risk your life anyway. So he's given it to me

and I got the gun off here night. That's what I started doing, taking guns off off the tellers. But after that I did one on.

under tight situation. So I knew I could. It's just it just came natural to me. I don't panic. I don't sit, never panic. No, I mean, as you get it. But you know, I was like, I was like, in, there's no doubtbout I could have been shot there. But I just think it's fain. I believe in faine. I believe certain things in my life happened. I think I'm still here today. I should have been dead. I've been shot out nine times and that never been hit once? And what was it?

girlfriend in America and that said. That's another story. But what happened is with caver Matda I thought it'd be a huge amount of money because they changed currency from poundshillings and pencil to desert currency on the fourteenth of February nineteen sixty six, and that's the day I changed and I style the car the same way, and this time I had a real gun because I had I had the bank managers gun's, put on a pair of sunglass, had a suit on, and left the engine running. And

this was what I meant about fate. Later on, I found out later years later, I found out when it's all went to court that the bank about twenty meters on this side where I parked. The guy I had seen me it was suspicious and had his gun ready, and he made it same in the police after it happened. He said, if you had come in here, I would have shot him. So that's how lucky I was. So I'm about I get out. I got the motor running. I'm about to run across here and hit the bank.

Run out and said, I never forget it, old lady, because it was Valentine's Day. And this old lady Kamara and excuse me, young man, she said, I said. She said, you've left the motor running. I said, don't do that. She said, around here had a lot of foods. She said, wherever you're going, she said, you come back to your car will probably be gone. I said, look, thank you very much. I went over and she followed me, and I didn't have any curves. He said, So I'm filling

ignition and she's looking. I don't know what. She thought, what's going on? And so I switched the engine. I'm on cursing, you know, and she said there, it's safe now. I said, thank you very much. I said, man, it's Valentine's Day, so I could have gone boy some roses. She saw you were a loving young man, you know. Two minutes later she would have seen me running out of the bank getting chased by the bank management gun and a buddy butcher. They came because I robbed the butch.

He put all his takes and I said, I'll take that. He said no. When I saw take that you had, I'll never forget. He had two bank books. One was Donald Duck when we're making you his kids. I said, we won't take that. I said, you're covered by insurance, and they are. I knew that. I said, you'll get that money bag. I knew this, and that's one thing people kream has turneding evering. Yeah, they know. And when you go into a bank, anything happens, you're covered by

insurance if you get robbed. So I wasn't worried about taking his money, but he came after me. He didn't believe it. So the bank manager grabbed the gun and come with me. And when I jumped in the car and cursed the old lady because I've got to get it started again, and I seen him in the rear vision and I thought, he's going to come with a gun, and what am I going to do? I got my gun because I've always had the mindset I'm like going to shoot anybody, and I have and shot it. They

came after me. I managed to lose them get away, so I got away. So I knew by now I was getting pretty hot. So I went to went down to Melbourne once again. I thought it's too hard on my own. I'll get somebody to help me. And this guy ran in me. I was going to the illegal casino's backs. There were a couple of heavy old cooks here that found out what happened to me later and sent money in the jar. You know, there's a blake

called Brewster. He's a good old crime used to be a crimin back in the thirties, and said that he was running a two ur game. I used to go now and I ran into a guy and knew me, and he was always biting me. I was going in and I used to work a system and I was actually winning, winning a bit each night. And he come on me and I said, look, he said, he came to me. He said, John, He said, the cops have

got me for house breaking, imbalance. I need two hundred. Well, I don't want to give you fifty years fifty there, and I was getting sick of you know, so I need two hundred to get out of it. I said, I even got two hundred, you know. I said, look, I said, and I was getting low and I said look, I said, you want to do a job. He said, What I'm going to do. So we're going to do is drive a car for me. I said, I'm going to rob a bank. Big mistake. This guy's a pickpocket, pickpocket,

chop lifter. I said, you and a housebreak. I said, you just wait outside the bank in the car and I'll get it. Half.

And I was going to I was going to dance schol because the girl in America was a really good ballroom dancing. I was learning. I was playing big Bucks learning boreroom dancing and she said, make sure you can do the ten believe it. So I was getting private lessons one of the best sorts you've ever seen, which made a tang out. I said, I've got to get down my tang out lessons. And that was after the after I on the bank, well, he told the cops he realized when he saw that the bank roll had

gone down. He told him to get out of that ship. And they've done it, and they dressed up his dancers. I walked in there and you know, they got me. I'll never forget it. Shot of my life, really, you know. The cops threw stop and stands and just grabbed me. And I finished up doing seven years down Pintach for that. But what happened with the bank This is the first time we got shot at. I'd been shot at, you know, when I escaped Baptist. But this time the bank tell

has shot me. What happened is the young guy to manage it. You can see he's a tough guy and he just didn't want to didn't want to be robbed. And I said, pull ripped, ripped the phone out from the wall, and he wouldn't do it. I just ripped the phone out of the wall, you know. And this way you've got to get a long time. You're intimidating people, accept that. You know, it's a bad thing you're doing. And so I said, and it was sort of his

will against mine, but I got the gun. I said, you'll rip the pone out of the wall, because I knew he'd be trying to so he ripped it out like that, and I thought, this guy is trouble. This guy he's going to come after me. I knew it. I knew but paid the car across the road, you know, and I'm a pretty quick runner, so I had the money in the bad The other blow was crabbing himself and got it spun around and ran across and then he got knocked over. And I get I get to

the bloody car and they're already there. They were already already across the street. They're only about six cars back, and I have the doors opened the door. He's gone bang bang, he's fired the shots. He wasn't a good shot. He hit the boot. He hit the boot. So I went like that, and you know, I wasn't going to shoot it. I went like that and they dived down. I want a car, and then I jumped in. And as I jumped in read the car, there's a truck driver pulled in front of me try to stop me.

And I was really dirty and that I you know, he doesn't know where I'm a good guy, the bad guy. You know, they could be the bad guy. So I went up around on the footpath and he's tried to cut me and I just got around him and he's come after me. I saw in a rear visionary. He's asked me back behind him. The two bank tools are running, both got guns, and I've got a train's going to get me away. But I'm that dirty. And this is

where ego tastes control. I get to the dead end and a truck driver pulls up behind me, and I thought, no fuck is how I jumped out, Well, I know the train's coming, and I run up to the thing and he saw me coming. He's pretty smart. He wound the window, ups wound the window. What's what's that going to do? So I just chapped on a window, I said, I just shoved in the gun. I said, what are you going to do now? What are you going to do now? But I was really dirty because he got

me shot and he like that. He was shaken, and I just laughed and I ran. But those trains always in time. And I was seen the train coming in and I ran and this money falling out of the bank. And this little guy they had the little uniforms, he's like that. He come and he weighed on about ten meters away and he closed the gate and I got up and I'm puffed there. I said, listen, you gotta let me in. I've got to get that train. You said you missed it, fellow. I said, I mean, I've

got to get that train. He's you have to get the next one, mate, And I looked around. I could see him up at the top end of the padding. There's two guys up there with guns and the back they're pointing to amount. So the train went and he just went went to his office. So I went in after you open, and I went in, jumped down on the track, and those idiots thought I had caught the train. They didn't watch closer. They thought, yeah, so that that

that was lucky. So but I was stuck in the middle of nowhere and next train is half an hour away. There was a big fence and somehow, I don't know how. You know, when you're district you can do it. Ripped my finger and that got over this fence. There was a factory and there were cars and the guys are having our lunch and there's a couple of guys and these two guys were in the front seat of the cars. It was home. And I went up and I just got in the bank and said, hi, guys, understand, I

showed them a gun. I slip. I got to get into town. I said, can you help me and the bag? It's just cool as a key going. He said, so we can do that, just so bloody cool. And his mate said yeah. I said, I just outscore Melbourne. I said, struck a bit of trouble and the old blade said yeah. So he had the waves through security, waves through security went through, and siren's going to where cop cars going around.

The young Blake said Jesus there after somebody I said, ah, said, there's always things happening wrong, and he said, yeah, we left know it's madly looking for you. And we start talking about football because I love football out there, and i'd actually started bearing for Geelong and to have a te him when he went down here and I started barring for Geelong and I said, who'd you barring for us?

Homage a long supporter, they said, I went, were died in the warm Collingwood all that life, collin would and Collinwood was working man's that they always were. And so when we stopped, I said, to stop us here, I got out, give me a one on money. I don't know how much it was. I said, look, he said, what's that for? I said, that's that's for the petrol. He said, I wouldn't come that I saw anyway. I said, racked rack the west on Collinwood to win the win

the premiership. I said, you never know. He said, mate, I'm going to do that. Colin Wood got to the Grand Final. They got beat a point on the siren in sixty six by Saint Coler and Saint Coler was trained by a cop Caln James. I mean the irony of it, and I often thought, I did you know that they didn't go to the police. I was never mentioned that was that would have been extra time for me, and I didn't go to the police, didn't report me. I always had a soft spot for coming without there.

But the truck driver he was on the six o'clock news, and when I got home, I was feling pretty good. I think I got nearly four thousand and so we said I had got away and there he was this Bankrobb the truck drive was the star guy and they said what happened? And he said, well, what happened? He said, I chased him? He said, and did he come? And he said he somehow he squeezed through and he said I chased him. He said, we both jumped out, said, we jumped out and I went to go for and

he said he ran away. They said, what about the gun? He said, you know what I would have done with that gun before I got and he said he ran across a thing like a curved ong, you know. And they said, say, he's blady here. So I thought, okay, that's that's his story. But when they caught me the dance to Goon, we had to go to Committal and I was told this truck I was going to be there.

I knew what he was going to say. He was going to get in caught, and so I terrorized him, and at which I did to a degree, And yet here he is on Channel nine saying this. So as we walked past the screws, I stopped. I said, remember me, and he looked at he turned white. I said you're going to testify, I said, and you're going to tom. I said, how you jumped out the truck and you chased me like I was a curved on And I said I was terrified of you. I remember that. And

he said, I like that you didn't testify. What's he going to do? What's you going to do? So that helped me a bit, but yeah, when I got to Pantridge, I knew I had to try and escape and there's anything I could do and either it because I was wandering for bank robbin in New South Wales as well as down in Melbourne, and they just don't take kind in the bank was particularly in those days. They were hardly anybody. They were getting ready to hang Ryan that caught them, and they're getting ready.

Penry Foot? He wouldn't talk, He wouldn't talk. So when we got off at Penry they came over and I knew it was a tough job, and I said, some tough crims down there staring at us and some pretty heavy prison of other of there. We're probably going to get bash here, you know. So they owned handcuffs and they said who's Rory? I said, I'm killing. I said, you come with us killing. So we started to walk away. Don't have heard his scream and looked around and the

crims nothing screws. The crims had this Rary on the ground. I bumping him, kicking, he smashing his yelling out give him the trouble. I turned out Riary had raped and murdered a sixteen year old and raped and murder the three a six year old and a sixteen year old. He raped the murder. Now, eventually I went down to Haystis because I tried to escape. There were two screws.

I tried something in baths come out and and you know, not CAF taking their cuffs on and as their handcuffed me again, I worked one and he's gone down and pushing. I went off, young guy and I got to the door, but I had to stop and pull it out and there were steps down there. As I got there. When they go to you wouldn't believe he's tackled me. You wouldn't believe the AFL state they ran me a tack on me from the top. I couldn't believe. Nobody else

could believe. That's fate too. He was the faith to get caught. We're rolling around on the grass and I'm kicking, pumping, and he's screaming out like blue murder, and the cops just loved those away. I would have been because I was dressed in Simmy's or whatever. Got away and so they give me a hiding and then they took me down to Hats Division and knew i'd go, and I got another hiding down there. They strip you off down there and they just smash your batons in your unconscious.

But you know, it seems like thirty minutes to get in based it's probably two minutes. I BITCHU my lip to stop myself singing out because I knew it grafted. And they used to say try not to yell out because all they other crimsonal listening. You know. Some of them cry like babies, you know, and some of them don't. So I got a pretty bad hiding then for that. And I was there, I used to see Ron Ryan, the last man hanging in Australia, was there. They were

definitely going to hang him. But there's a lot of evidence. There's grounds form of opinion now that I reckon that he didn't do it at the screw from the town. There's a lot of eminence to point that that. Anyway, what happened all he hated him, wanted to die, and I used to see him and bring him out as a security beld on him. And the night they hanged him. In the morning they hand him and the night before

and the Gary was ready to erupt. The government came around and said, look, I was just spoke to Ryan. He's accepted his fate. He's answer like the playot for everybody say so they didn't they didn't play it. You had produce outside right around, right around Astralia. The produce about it. And they hanged him and reproved Rory similar names, Ryan and Rory. Reprieved Rory who raped the murder. The two guys reprieved him. He got out and sells paintings

as a living stone. So that's why people are dirty about it. It's such a controversial issue anyway. If any far from Van reabilitated, I was, I was even worse, and I was ready to bust out again and sixty eight I got, I got two guys tornised a lot week. We can get out of here. And the security has been ramped up because of Ryan Warmur. They even had two screws in the town during the day. What we're going to do, I said, we can cut through these bars. We're in the door with his eight of us. So

we cut the bars. There was a big circle of iron, iron circle screws, iron bars, screws had come in through a door. Just check everybody, go back out. I said, I have a guy up here sand paper and something. So if they hear a noise, I think it's looking through the people and we get it. So I got, I got two smuggle two weight bars. When the weights there's two bars, pretty big ones, and smuggled them in and had a hacks at blade got through the bars.

you're crazy, You're crazy, you know. And it was crazy, really, but at that stage I just didn't give us stuff. I was even going to get out. I wasn't and so too. What I did. We got through the bars. We looked through the to see who was on We're going to hit after midnight. The screw was upstairs all night and he had the couz and he used to come. We had to get him down overpower him, get his gun, get the couz. So I looked through the changes. Shift

usually change shifts about twelve. It's about ten to twelve or something. So I'm coming through. Damn bluddy six foot four, big dutchman, but a great guy, you know, one of the few screws I actually liked. I said, I can't hit this guy. How am I going to hit this guy? You know, you know you're going, You're planned all this, but I've got the bars cut and you gave here in the morning and say, look, excuse me. I cut the bars. I was going to escape, but there was

a nice officer on. I couldn't I couldn't eat it them on bars, so just handing himself, well they'd just take it out and flog anyway. I mean, you know, I didn't have any officer. And then I used the green against the blue? What had happened to me? How did smash me? And I thought, look, you know, sorry, I'm going to have to do it. So we one guy kept in, kept watching the others, and we said we're going going to do it now, and any of

you sing out. Matthew was going to wake him with the bar, and they didn't ever go to that gup. So what I got through the bars, got into the circle. I had a knife cut there was a soft petitioning part of the door. I cut through there, got my hand for and when you put your hands for, you think it could play chop it office something, put your hands through it. And I knew that because I used to come through a lot. They didn't lock. They just

lit a bolt through. I got under the bomb. Well then I was out into this coldor I knew he was upstairs. Say then mat and Jeff had a bar and I at a bar. I said, look, if you're going to come down the stairs. If he turns around to me, I said, you hit him in the back of the head, I said, and rubbish, gunn I said, if he turns around to you, all hit him in the back of the head, because we've got to hit him on the back, you know. So wait mill of nights.

It's about a bit after midnight, and it's cold and we're shivering, and it's so eerie. I never forget. You can't hear anything, and all of a sudden he's knocking up and HER's I'm coming, I'm coming, and we hear him coming down, and I'm looking at We're standing on the other side, and I'm looking across at Jeff and he's like that. You know, I knew it. He can't do it. He can't do it. I'm going to have to do it. It doesn't matter which way to. So

sure enough he come down. He turned around to me, Well, Jeff shure to hit him, just like I couldn't couldn't do it. So I got the bar of the screws. He's gone for the gun, and I waked. But I liked the guy, so I pulled it. And I mean that I pulled it and instead of waking him. Mart was a soft tap that drew blood. Blood spurred it out, and I thought, you're standing here in the middle of the night in a maxim security jarm hit the screw in the heaven iron bar and I thought, it is

just really happened. It's the worst thing in my life that I still think back about. It was just a nightmare. And he stagged, A big tough guy staggered. So I hit him again. Still pulled at that and probably like you, I did pull it, you know, I guess. But it didn't knock him unconscious. And there was a belt and he stagger towards a bell, so I dropped the bar and hit him on a chimney. He went down, and when he went down, I grabbed his gun. I said, listen,

listened to the door. I said, I knew who he was. I said, give me the courtes where the court? He said, have you got the course? I said, what do you mean, you haven't got the courage? He said, When Ryan and walkt escape, they up secured and it wouldn't let him have the couries anymore, someone from outside them. So that was the end of that. We were trapped, I thought, and my mate said, we have to blow a long off and I said that in the movies at work,

and I doubt it's going to work here. And then a screw come the door, John Johant, and he's John the Ball. So they'd heard the noise and I dived out. He was standing there. The door was open, and I dived out, and the pointed the gunner and stay where you are, your dad, and he just dived in the shadows. I heard him running. I said, where off, guys?

the bait. You gotta let me know. They said, was they were excited? I said, we'll piss on them all that they were excited about it. So I knew I had them on side. So the only way they're going to be able to get me is come up through these stairs. And you know, I had it blocked, and eventually they came. You know, I do tours down there now and that place division is now a bar and a restaurant, the cafe, and we go down and we eat meals and buy drinks fifteen bucks for a beer.

But people, as soon as they come in, they go and they tell them about because Ada and Carlo's swat team coming. They opened up an explosive place but tear gas haart works and it went there was five hour seedge. They brought the commissioner in and they had the loudspege. The thing I had in my favorite I knew was that they couldn't get up there. About coming up there just bastards, and they didn't want to do that because

the newspapers. And the other thing is there were a thousand crimins listening because it was an allowed figure and you had a thousand crimins surrounded in those wings. They could all hear what was going on. And I knew the governor and he's got a reputation even now is because he's dead. He had a reputation as a man of his word. I knew I could get him to do a duel that he created the duel he had to because they do duels every day with crimson. He's got asand criminals. If he's got to do it. So

I wouldn't come down. I said. The only way I will come down, give you the gun. I said, it's got to be kept in a low court, because we went to high court, get buddy, twenty years. We kept the low court. And I said, no bashing. You know well in the end he said, there's no problem with no bashing. You've got my word. You will not be touched down here. If we didn't get that, that turned us into eventually and and the other thing is he said, I can't speak. I can't get you in the law court.

I said, we're not coming in. They could do it. And when I was coming to Jeff Wigan, he went down. He's worried about what his mother was going to think. And that's fair enough. He was worried about He's worried about his moment, so he went down. So they still had a tourist his me in the red bag, Matt because Mack was tatl Mac started going and saying, run up down from bottles and him and corn counts and

you can't do that. So he cracked up. He finished up in an arrow out of mental assign anyway, in the end he agreed. He said, I've got to get my jil up and running. And morning he said, you've got my word or be kept in the lower court and you will not have a hand laid on it. So like I went down. I remember, I remember when I went down those stairs, hands on my head, and soon I could seem life thwing up about six bloody

heavy weapons aimed at me. I don't just won't press on the trigger, and I'm gone, yeah, but to buy that, and I just think it's faint that I was meant to. And you know, I remember they took me down. They put me in a cell and all the screws came in off duty surround me, about six on them. When I was inside the cell and they were outside. It was the soul that Ryan had burned. You can see right through the bars on the outside. And they said, you know what you've done, And I just said, get fucked.

I did because I'd cross the line, and I made up my mind. If you're going to bash me, and you're going to bash me, I'm not going to cop shit from now. I'll get back to them. If I get bash then I'll probably kill me anyway. That's the I've got to rely on the go, And they did. He came down every day, saw us on you got You're okay, yeah, okay. But what they did to you, how they got me was we got me a lot of mind games for years. But he came down about

there's probably ten days later. It was a Friday night and he came to a cell because the government going home and step out. They said about six of there. I do it here at Commers, here at Connors. So I steeled myself for it. I thought I'll be likely to survive this. I stepped out and they said turn left, turn left. They masked me up to Ryan Song where he'd went, and I said step inside. I stepped inside. They locked it and they said officer at the ball

died at four o'clocks today. They said, you'll hang like Ryan, you bastard, and you'll swing. They walked away. Well forty hours. They left me there thinking that right that the guy died. Definitely they would hang me. They're going to hang Ryan. Mine was premeditated. Ryan's was done to Spurad the moment during the escape. Mine was a premeditated act, no doubt. If he's dead, I'm going to I will swing. But

I thought, you got to use your brains. You've got to think things out and trying and to use reason. And I thought there's one thing here. If he died, would I should pot screws coming in and tell me or would I have the homicides work coming into me and take me out and charge me? And that's what kept me going. But you still got that doubt. You still got that doubt. Anyway, Sunday night they come and got me left, turned right, turned down, and they said

offs the boards made a remote recovery. It's okay, put me back and they'll laughing. Now. The thing is they left it to me where I'm going to tell Grinally. Grinally come around on Monday morning, didn't knowing about it, said we were right. I said, yeah, that means fine, because if I tell Grinley, he's already in the ship. They were going to jack up overspan in low Court only got eighty months for what happened months if I say to him what happened, he's going to have to

say to them what They're going to deny it. He's going to be in a position then what's he going to do. I didn't want to put him in that position, because he's in enough shit over me. And he got he got some payback from me because in sixty nine seventy seventy one we all went on rights and practically reckoned the place with disobeying orders. But one Irish guy

call this screw down Landed. He was an Englishman and he was a macculate, you know, spit polysh shoes straight out, straight out of the military, and a lot of them were military guys, and come down, mad irishman said, and he threw some shit all I mean, fucking hit him in her face, down his uniform and I heard him was screaming. He ran up the thing and you know, I hurt him on the phone, and we're all listening and some of the oraceans realized he did a lot

of shit. He's quite mad. And we heard him shut officer the silence because we knew the screws were coming down and going to bash him. And he said, afic, sorry, about that. There's no answer. He said, I'll pay for the dry clanet. No answer. Next thing, the squad come down. They give me the biggest flog of his life. But the guy's hurt him getting and it went. It just went too bad. What they did was pretty heavy, and anyway, we're all jacked up. And what happened is that he

got really bad. And the governor came down and in the middle of it and said, look, we'll do some negotiations. I'll bring in the ministry and we're going to do and they said we wouldn't take your word. Then he saw the man my word and they said burn it because I just didn't believe in it, he said. And he said, well, John Killick will tell you. And we're in the middle of a right. This is the worst right in Pendridg's history. And got the governor asking me

for a reference. Then he said tell them Killick. I said, well, all I could say is govinor Greenley kept his word and we did a due well tonight. I tried to escape and he kept his word. That's all I can say. He said, thank you, Killick. He said, there and then it stands Taylor Near say He's a heavy crim heat bomb buddy Russell Street lighter. He said there, if John said we're gonna take his word, We're gonna take his word.

So dealers were done and has got a lot better by the time Chopper Red got there because I'd gone. It wasn't the same place when Chopper got there. So you know I did. I did seven years there, got extradited to quit news out Wales. I didn't do very long there because all the time I've done here and what happens, got out, got married, started writing stories and whatnot. Got you know. I had a shop that I did

really well, and started photographic business. I did a lot, was working all the time, five years working, and then I lost the shop on one day, So I was I haven't mentioned it was pretty heavy gambler. He's gambled pretty heavy. And when I was robbing banks. That's why I robbed one bank after another. Was I used to gamble pretty heavy.

Elinori Eyanes just about ruined my marriage coming. But what I did do is planned a bank robberie and we went out lived in South Australia for a couple of years. I was working over there for Carls and whatnot. Dad got sick. I had to come back to Sydney and ran an old guy at the races and he said, John, I've known it r on the bank and I got involved in it to the extent that I introduced him another guy. They didn't know who you were, but I said, look, okay,

we'll do it. We'll go over there later because I looked at this when I was there, and I've spent a lot of money on the bank and I just knew Friday afternoon the free guys can take this. So I said, okay, we'll do it. But when I went to his place a few days before the bank, i'd introduced him another guy. I didn't know who he was, but the other guy had the gun. I didn't have a gun at that stage, he and his wife they

were fighting. They had some substance on the table and on a single send a noodle and the baby's cry. I knew what it was, and I thought he's a junkie. I didn't realize he's a junkie. And my mate had told me he had temper cent of his liver left. They called Harry visit and said, John, don't ever try suggest a junkie, said, I saw the rome. He said, it's just the way it is. They can't help it, and he'd burn a junking. He'd cured himself, but he loosto. So I just called her off. I said look, and

he couldn't believe it. And I said, no, look, I'm not doing it because half me didn't want to do it anyway, because I was burnt out five years, I had a baby, you know, so I thought, I'm not doing it. I didn't do that Rory, but they went ahead and did it. He didn't know who the other guy was now going. They got caught. One guy got away,

they got the money, got away. What happened somebody saw them the getaway car when they parked change the cars made They came around a cornerpparently made a lot of anoise, and a kid was food, and chooks looked the sword and took the number, and the other boat flew back Sydney.

But he and his wife, she drove a car. They got in the car and drove booked you may tell it, and just outside outside of called Renmark, Redmark, and they had the number of the car, so they got or when they got him, he didn't know who theever guy was. So I read the transcripts later and the statement you made my lawyer show me, and he did try to coot me out of it. But when they said to him, either you tell us who the other guy was, or will charge your wife. And she drove a car and

you'll lose the baby in a room. If you tell us who he was, we'll let her go. So that's what he did. He said it was mate, you didn't know the other guy. So they come and grabbed me. And I was in Sydney. Everybody saw me in Sydney. I had six seven witnesses saw me. People good, good character. I was not an adelaide. Couldn't have burn an adelaide because they got all the statements throwing out they extra owed me to salbustrated because they had a lot of

pool in those days. And I just went along with that stuff. But what happened when I get there. I was winning a trial. I got the statements throwing out and I was going to walk Yeah, seven witnesses. Roger Rogerson came in. I didn't know who he was. And he walked in and he looked across and he was a glamor guy at the stage. He said, good ad, Johnny like that, and he's smiling him so and then what's that jury? They all said, oh, there, and they know each other pretty well. I never met him. And

what he said, this is devised lodging. He said that the day the extradition hearing, that extradition hearing, I had called my witnesses. Seven of them said, look, collect was the Sydney when it happened. There was just no even at all, And they said that. Rogerson said during the lunch break he had another couple of men. He said, he and Peterford show me an air ticket was in the name of Richards And I said that there was a false name and that do you know anything about

this anticket? And I'm spouted, said, oh ye, you share that. That's the one I use when I flew throw on the bank. How'd you get that? Come on? Am I going to say that the corner? Anyway? They used that and then the judge got in the end and said, you're going to believe Rody Rogerson and his friends, Well you can believe John killing, So who are here going to believe? They just ignored your evidence. So I went down on that and the High Court of Pearl had

it all course, but three years. Took me three years to win it, and because it's very expensive getting the high court. So I finally got there and won the High Court of the Pearl. That got out and I am harm but the marriage stuffed because for me I was very better haw to chip my should and just there was no interested in real I wrote an article and I had some articles. I did a three year writing for media. Course was there and yah got top

marks of state, bloody distinction, passes, hacked articles, funlies. I was running a John magazine. I was doing pretty well. I had a career. I was off at a place of deacon but that was down moadent. I wouldn't do it, take it, but I just wasn't interested in anything. I just thought, fucking I'm hitting back, and I hooked up with a girl half my age and we were the next three years, We're going around Australia, hitting banks, shop left,

and stole a lot of cigarettes. We changed the whole system of cigarettes, put them in corn flag boxes, and I described them a book and just was a true criminal. There's no doubt was absolutely true. I've gone from being reform to that because that can been convicted, and knowing that i'd versely proven that I didn't do it, I still do it about it today. You know that sixteenth for June nine, nineteen sixty eight, seventy eight, nine seventy eight,

it happened. And you know I only those dates. The sixteenth June ninety seventy eight when that happened sixteen during ten years. I sixty eight is a day I hit that prison over the head. So ten years later, two rotten things happened in my life. Wow, I really did it, because I eventually I got caught. Then she the girl, slipped me a pistol. It was a toy gun, and I was in Boga Road and shot my place and I said, look, we've got to get out of here.

And she wanted me out. I said, we look, the only way we're going to do it is she going to have to slip me something a pistol, And we didn't. They'd taken a gun or she bought a report a pistol. I got to get someone in a friend of mine through a hole in the middle painted blake make it look Roal found out when I was going to the hospital in my space and over and I managed to find out, and she came over from adelaide was waiting there well, WI gone, but he standing behind a pot

plant and I came out. I was handcuffed and really heavy screws here with me, and I just never forget. I coughed. The sceneer was that. I coughed, and she she runs over and I coughed, and she's standing there. He shot her young. She couldn't he couldn't move, and I coughed again. She's still standing in the stading there with a big old standing at me, and I thought

she can't do it. And then the screws getting spich he did said, seen him under his fingersment like that, got the pistol in there, and ever screws standing there. One of what's going on? And I coughed, were aloud. She ran across. She had it inside inside a newspaper. She thrust it at me and I was hand got by the hand and got it, put it up like that, put to his head, and I see he was going to go for his gun. I said, don't do it.

I said, I'll blow your head off. He thought about it, and he saw that the barrel of boon drawn it had black and he knew what he thought that it was wrong. So she'd run. She'd already gone. Then I spun around. I'd practiced with the cuffs, running up and down and inside itself, and got to the car and then we said we got the car. She had a shotgun. She mad a shotgun. He couldn't use a two B to use anything. I made of mind to give her that, and we got away and had for about twelve months.

So I hit more banks when I was out, and I was probably most wanted to go in Australia at the time. So that that's how heavy I got. When I say heavy, it's not heavy, not something to be proud of. There was the wrong thing I was doing. And I've learned and I've worked was so college for a lot a long time the last ten years, getting across I get it across the young people. I've been out ten years and get it across it. You're robbin banks. So there's always that thing with me, Robin at banks,

hitting bank in the banks. But you're not not Robin at banks. You know you're actually what you're doing, it's you against not the banks, but it's you against people inside the customers. Bloody tell us and what I do. And now I put Gloria as she's eighty four and she's pretty. If she was she was in a bank, somebody ran in Marista Yellown, orders were gun, she could have a heart attack. That's the way I look at it. So I know I have traumatized some people. A lot

of them recover, some that don't. And so I say to guys, when you think about bank Robinson's and hold ups, what you've got to understand is you are traumatizing pople You're doing a lot of damage. You don't know, you might not know you're doing a lot of damage, but the thing is that you are. And that's why we get the big sentences. And we can never understand why

we've got sentences as her as they were. But I always felt and I always said that the only thing that I always disagree with and still disagree was, although it's catching up now, but pedophiles, we see pedophiles get up for nine months, that they should have got nine years, but that that start try now too. But the way I would say look at it now is anybody that you don't glamorize bankrops, you don't glamorize escape because you know they're really they're bad people. And I accept that,

and I accept that I was a bad person. But you can turn around. We can. We can all change. We just need the right attitude and and you've got to believe that you can do it, and you've got to have a reason to do it. And it does help if you've got friends. And I've always had a good friends. I've always had people stick by me.

You know. I worked at shops, the fat great bus writer. I job went around putting peoples and doors. I was working most of the time. Yeah, And it was the game they had got me if I would get into trouble. I remember when I was running a Lucy. They came up with this bloody warrant. It was thirty years old and we're on the run. And I borrowed ten grand from the guy that I had to pay it back, and I said, they're always optimus. So I said, we'll go down to Star City. I'll double it. I'll double

the money. I said, we'll give it a ten grand back and then we'll go to mil I had seven ingrand, built up seven ingrand. She's as bad as me. Where Buddy now was going any breaks? She should have said to me, John, let's go. You got seven ah. But so three o'clock in the more, we walked out, broke nothing. I still remember to hear a click of her hurls behind me. She said, what we're going to do it now? I said, rober bank. She said, okay, that was it, And I got caught on that bank. That's the one

I got caught on. It was twenty January in ninety nine, twenty fifth marths. She bowed them out in the chopper. So was that?

these times. I'm still alive. The things that have happened that suage channel more and that I was like they did, they didn't come there. Then the chopper they hit the chop,

it didn't bring it down. All the things that have happened to me, I just believe it's fate that was meant for me to bured, to get out and to tell the stories, to write the books, and to tell a true history of kind of the not a chopperlike version of history, a true version, because I've got a photographic memory on dates you wanted to and stuff like that, and I know exactly where I was anytime, and I can tell you where I was, what I was doing. And now it had to be fate. We got why.

I turn to why it worked. Lucy came to mend and said, look, I've got to get you out. She said, Jackie got you out on cos, I'll get you. I said, I've looked around. I said there's no way. She said, we can do it at court. But the spot used to take me to court because of my background, I had always escapes on me. So when I went to court, I had lead cuffs on me and a security built I said, and heavy screwters. I said, you try and put me out from there. I said, they're going to

secure it. They're trying to do it. They're special trains. I said, we're not going out to do it, and I'd given her gun. She still had it. Calling an assassin's gun you can hold in your hand, she had it for protection. There's just two shots in it, but it's deadly. You can walk the assassins you and just came and walk past, and you're doing what they've done. I said, we need more than that. So I bought a summer shone office guy. But I found out later

he was wrought at me. And what happened is it anyway? It didn't work, and the firing pin brink cuts I didn't work. We definitely en shot dead. There's no there because the machote gun didn't work and the small thing wouldn't stopped these guys with blocks training guys. So I knew that the only way we could do it would be just pull the all over everybody's eyzing and get out by the chopper. Now everybody's thought about everything in jailes.

I don't think people realize that they're trained. They're not allowed under the Geneva Convention, they're not allowed to shoot at choppers because it could be honestly situated but although are not allowed, this guy did do it. And I

still think they do it today. You know, I remember driving down a bamfast driving down from Golden They're squaddling around the car and I said, they said, you know, it doesn't matter what jar that happens in because I said, it'll happened again, and they said, yeah, they'll get shot down. I still have a ladder. I said, don't care. They'll still do it. I'll still do it. It's them a

glory glory. Any other gile it would have worked. But because with saw water, I just noticed every day we only lay it out in the able twice twice a week and only allowed out for an hour. But when I was out there, I would see ten choppers coming in that hour, and I thought, what you know? And then and I looked at the screws, and they're mostly Indians,

and you know they they taking notice. They stand around and chaining notes, and I thought, that's because there's so many it's happened so often they become blas if it's ten in an hour, how many a day, how many days they burn here, they've probably seen a thousand tops go. They screw up baths. Maybe see one a year. I knew they dropped their guard. So it's still going to be hard, but we've got a chance. But we didn't know anything about jobs. And that's what I mean about fate.

That is where fate stepped in. There was a guy, his name is Bennett, Paul Bennett. He got extraded because he was kind man. He kind of everybody, everybody and the extra from South Africa, Scotland, New Zealand to Sydney. He arrived at Sydney. It's all a few days after me, about a few weeks after me. They put him in my wing. And this is extraordinary. I'm thinking about a tropical and all of a sudden correctly serves supplying me with a tropical pilot, you know, and they put him

in my wing. But guess what I got him in myself. Now, Look, the odds are a miny to one. I reckon lad Brakes La a minute to one that this could happen. And I started thinking, this is a setup. They know what I'm going to do. Something they sent me out. But then I realized it wasn't. Then he's economy and he knew who I was, and he started saying to me, I can get you out of the chum. I said, how would you do it? He said, I'd just fly straight in pick up the fire. He said. I said,

how much you want? You sit ten games? Because I tell him myself, I've still got the money from the bank road because I didn't find the money for me. They didn't find the money from the bank robbing. And I tell my still that it we didn't. But I tell him we still had it. He said, well, look, I'll do it for twenty or ten grand up front. And I said, but I didn't believe what he said,

And so I got loose. She's putting money and his property for him, and getting his clothes dry, clan ringing up lawyers for him, and all the time I'm pumping. He's got books on helicopters, and I'm getting all the information from him. I said, reading the book, what's the transponder? I was a transponder that's a sign of alarm that goes through your flordays if you're in trouble and you hit that and the other choppers coming. So I thought,

where's that? He showed where I was. So I said to Luci, you've got to do a trial, trial, run hire a chopper, find out where the transponder is, have a look. That's what you're going for. You got to stopping and getting that. I said, you need to take his ear phanes off so all and by the time that we're ready to do it. And when I said, I said we can get out, I said, well, you're going to have to hijack bay helicopter. She said, brilliant, brilliant.

So I mean she was just about fearless. You know, we've done a lot of stuff, but this this was something something else again and so she said, yeah, brilliant. So she did a trial run, came back in. She's all excited. I said, it'll work. I know where the transponder is, I know this, I know that, etc. We can do it. So that was it. We decided to do it. So the only thing is we only got I only got out twice a week and I had to bring that able when she came and to do that.

It's very dicey in John particularly places order because they're always having staff shortages.

line for the phone because I was out about tenth guys. Look, I've got to ring my lawyer. It's desperate. I really need to ring a lawyer. I was, I can't have anybody at court. I said ten seconds. So they let me in and I rang loosing. She was waiting near the airport and I said, I was just reading to say I'm going out for training and I don't want to get back and give you a call. Okay, Well she knew, yeah she was going out, and because I

asked the screw, he said, yeah, we're going out. And there was probably I ate a nine choppers come over. Every time one come over. My heart was found. I was sweating, but I took the chop a pile out with me because I thought if if she does it, she lands and he jumps out and runs away. Yeah, you've got my own pilot. Yeah, and he'll probably come. So I had the backup, and they were dirty about that too. They knew they knew I had the backup.

So finally about five about seven minutes before it comes, and I was thinking, what am I going to do this? I knew she'd do it. It's going to be a worse stand up date in history. She's going to get there and they're going to be a different career. Won't be here, should be looking around and I'm not there, and God knows what's going to happen to her. So I thought, all I'm gonna do is fall on the ground.

So I'm having a heart attack because the protocol there is that they don't grab me and pick up they get might take it out of ten minutes for me. I was running away and then she came. Sure enough she came, and I got a couple of crews into trouble. There's heavy crim he's in now doing a long time Kevin. I won't say a second time, but he got Billy Mayer. You've heard Billy Bayer come over to him and he said John Kevin wants to see you, And I said Tom.

He came back five minutes and he said, John Kevin wants to see it. Definitely, said christ. So nothing happened to Billy funny enough, So I went over and keV had some chocolates. They just got their mine. I said, no, Ken, yeah, I don't just give them a tomorra. He said fortune once. I said no, it's all right. When I got away, they changed all ninety people out of it and they shut the thing down. They were dirty. They changed ninety

of them out of the job. He was the first one I got because they got played back the camera. They didn't touch Billy Bayern, but they grabbed keV, took him to left gun and put him in seagra for eighteen months.

get any information about this. But what they did then a woman rang up John Laws and said that her husband was a screwer and they knew I was going. They knew I was going, And it's a disgrace. So it makes me think that that be with a pin cunt on the machine on the machine gun, they somehow knew that we're going to go. Yeah, and they were waiting for us. They just didn't expect it to go. And that's probably what it's so dirty.

because I know how to operate. And also I saw the guy from the tower from the sports thing, pretty fit guy running and the dog squad arrived quickly and they dived out there, but they had pistols. But then I jumped on to the side of a chop and shooting here in the machine gun. I sat on and I just swung around like that were even. They all died at the ground, and that's what saying. But then the guy from the tower had time to get get it out and he shown pink pink, pink freed ims

hit has just just missed a silicon cable. It it hits that we're down, we're gone, and we're God knows how many people would have That's no a reason. We got to hit pretty heavy sentence because what happened. But you know, I got twenty eight years for that. He's got ten. Now. The way I said is that it had to be fate that he missed us with the bullets, you know all the time when shot outs, had to be fate that that I had to be there at that time when that pilot was there. Without that pilot coming,

we couldn't have gone. Later on, he got out and got a job of Russell Crow. Yeah, yeah, but he fell out with Russell. He'd done something I don't I'm not going to be done upset Russell.

haven't got any help at all. And that's that's what fucked us, because if you couldn't get out of the country, you're not going to make it. And I knew that it was a mistake about mistake, but at the time, I thought, you know, if we can just lie low for six months and you use passwords and get out, we could do it. Because I know you're Scott, tattoos or anything like that. I could sort of blend in, change hair changes, had a pretty good chance of getting out.

But it wasn't to me and I look back down, both of us would regret what happened. But the thing is, I'm doing a lot of good things now, I really am. You know. I helped kids over so has written seven books. I do lectures at the university, do stuff like that. And what what I do would say to that. I've got to say this, And I've had a lot of help from Steve Cook, who was actually the guy who instigated started the Voice of the Vina. He's now the

Warriors and which is versonal another name for survivor. But but the thing is, I my main message to get across is that I accept that I've been a bad guy, you know, and I accept that what I did was wrong, and I didn't, you know, I didn't see that until I work with likes. I didn't sue that. It just was a game to me, as we bank against the banks, and banks are bastards, and they're still barstards. But the

people in it aren't. The people worked there aren't, and and and the people that the customers aren't, they don't as I heard someone coming at you horizonment, But I would say the same about any arm robberie where you're holding up a drunk in the park or grabbing a guy out of toilet. You know, it's the same thing. You're putting people in fear of it, and it's just it's the wrong thing to do it. And I've had guns point at me and it's not a very nice thing.

I did a show with Mike Willerson and he pulled a gun on me unexpectedly and I got to shot my life and he said, now you know it. But look, I'm wanted to call in and do do a podcast with you. I think he's happy to talk about these things and get get the point across that guys like me. It's good that guys like me, And there's ronnieish Wood, so many people that have been Bernie, Bernie Matthews when he's dead now, but got out, got good books out and do the whole mornings, whole talks and get across

the people. Look, you know we're the wrong guys to follow it, but you can look at what we are now and what we're doing, and the message is there that you can change. You can change, and if you're determined to change, the change has got to come from within. If you want to rehabilitate, it's people can't force you to rehabilitate. You know, it never forced me. I just went from one thing or I had to make that decision. But you know the greatest thing is to have friends

and have mentors that they can help you. And to have a mentor and friends, you've still got to basically have some decency' hat you. I think that our major problem now and you would know it is drugs. Drugs is a huge point. I've done some UNI talks where we've had experts get up and give us facts in order to keep a young guy and Jarle in an institution of my young guy. I didn't believe it, but it's parish true. It is quite a way of minister

a million dollars a year. That's extraordinary when you're when you think about the money we could spend manager. And Australia has always had this attitude from since seventy eight. Punished, punished, punished. They hanged to go in the first couple of weeks for a shirt and a bit of food. They set an example. And you know controversy we've had over the Hang of Brian that they've actually it's concrete now in the Lord Will. There will never be any more excuses.

But you know, we hanged hundreds of people. We expected hundreds of people in this country, hundreds and women to some of them did deserve to go. And I just think people don't believe it. Down in Penridge, the last man two men were actually in the fifties fifty eight were flogged catting nine times, you know, court punishment in nine fifty eight. I was breaking rocks in the sixties, breaking rocks. You just wouldn't believe that's, you know. And when you went to buy the road, I thought I

was in another century up there for a while. So bad, So well, we're trying, we're trying. And Charles got a lot more chance of rehabilitation. But they're overcrowded. They're not doing a lot for drugs. They're turned a blind idem And if you've got a kid, he's never went on drugs, he goes in the jar, he's going to come out, he's going to be addicted probably, and that that's a bad that's the sad thing about it. Now. Yeah, so we need to spend money on rehabs, and we need

to spend money on mentors. They're people like me, Ronnie issued and these people. We should be working with kids. We should be working with kids, but they won't do it.